Dragon Hunter Staff

[Carapace]

Hello again Arlorians!

There have been quite a few threads and discussions popping up around the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff. We have been watching these, and discussing it internally. We feel to everyone's benefit we should discuss openly why we feel the Staff is working just as we have intended for it to work.

Before diving into that, we definitely want to say we understand that the immediate perception of "red numbers are bad" when it comes to things like damage, DPS, crit, stats, etc is hard to ignore. In many cases we find it is believed to be a guiding star for the validity of power on a new piece of equipment. In our view this is not always the case. The intent for the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff was to add another spell to the Sorcerer's arsenal, which is evidenced by the 100% chance to cast Consecrate when charging the staff.

Here I'm going outline a couple of key points about how the staff functions, and our reasoning for those functions below.

Mana Cost
One of the bigger discussion points at the moment is in regards to the mana cost of the Consecrate ability. We feel that the mana cost is appropriate for a number of reasons.

Let's look at some numbers for level 46.

147352

The initial portion of the Consecrate cast does an AoE damage equivalent to a Charged Fireball cast around the Sorcerer, which is why that number is relevant in this discussion. In addition, Consecrate also casts a powerful shield on all allies standing within the consecrated area. This dual ability comes at the cost of an additional 52 mana over the two spells cast individually when comparing the Arcane Shield and Fireball cost together. Playing solo this is a little more expensive. If used in a group however, then the arcane shield cast portion of 168 could be reasonably split up between the number of players. In a group of four using the consecration would cost 42 mana per shielded ally. So casting Consecrate in a group scenario results in a more efficient cast / mana usage for the staff. It serves better as a strategic spell cast during moments of a confrontation.

The reason the spell costs mana at all is a result of what we learned from the Ker'shal Staff. This spell cast is a free Shadow Fireball. The fact that is was free made it impossible to give it any real power, because it would change the dynamic of the class. By that reasoning, the only way to make the Consecration cast something of value was to give it a cost.

Cast Time
The cast time for Charged Arcane Shield is .75 seconds, and the cast time for charged Fireball is also .75 seconds. In total casting these two effects apart would take 1.5 seconds. The charge cast time for Consecrate is 1.25 seconds, and is therefore actually more efficient by comparison. It also is more timely in that you deal damage and shield yourself / allies with a single cast.

Staff Damage and Stats
While the Consecrate spell does not offer the DoT component of an upgraded fireball, it does also boost each allies damage and critical chance increasing overall damage output of the group while they stand in the consecrated area. The damage provided by Consecrate is also scalable by each individual player's primary stat bonus %, elixirs, and pets. This helps make up the deficit that is seen in the raw numbers on equipping the staff. I say make up because it does not close the entire gap. The rest of the damage is spread to your allies improving output for the entire party that supercedes the individual performance in most all cases. It is inteded for group play to capitalize the full potential of the Staff.

Normal Attack DoT Proc
The proc rate for the percentage based Damage Over Time is on par with the other Arcane Weapons, but random number generation has a way of making it feel like things are happening too much, or too little depending on the odds. When it does land, it is very powerful, so we're content leaving this proc chance where it is.

Multiple Consecrations
We will be looking closer at the number of consecrates currently allowed at the same time. It may have been prudent of us to restrict the number of active Consecrates to once. This doesn't mean we will change this aspect of it, however we will review it, as this would also allow players to utilize the spell and feel more mobile by casting multiple when necessary.

In addition to the above information, the Staff could feasibly be used in place of Arcane Shield in some cases where more damage dealing abilities would be beneficial. The option to free up an action slot for another viable spell we feel makes for a good choice for players to make.

Overall we are presently content with where the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff sits within the options for current Sorcerer weapons, and now with a little more information and understanding into how it was crafted, we hope you do to.

Thank you again for the excellent feedback, keep it coming - it does get heard!

- Carapace

[Anyona]

You did not address the issue that the staff has less skill damage but more stat damage than the Glintstone Gun.


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[Saud]

i feel the staff more like survive
you get insane health and str
str can help arcane shield not broken easily
and the spell help in clash if you use it in right place
also rem said before we granted the mythic guns
and the skill damage thing to make ppl not throw the guns away and buy the staff
its more like balance

[Otahaanak]

If its design was to be another spell in the mages arsenal, then each Mage with staff should be able to cast at least one. They shouldn't cancel each other out. A second one cast by the same Mage, sure, but not cancel another's.

I agree that the skill damage needs a bump given the bump for the Arcane Daggers was so immediate.






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Jazzi]

A great explanation here. I hope everyone tries to understand it ;) Thank you!

[Kingofninjas]

I appreciate the fact that you took some time to read what we had to said and addressed it. However, I have some concerns regarding your reasoning for the mana cost and charging time.

Firstly, the range of the consecrate spell is way to small to be comparing it to the damage output of fireball. Most of the time (in pvp), my spell hits 0-1 enemy. If I am close enough for me to hit more enemies, I will probably be dead before I can finish charging the spell. Note that I am not asking for the range to be increased, merely pointing it out.

The arcane shield is also superior to the consecrate spell (for mages only). It gives an additional 15% dmg reduction and more importantly stun immunity.

I suppose the team buff aspect of consecrate makes up for that, so in a way it can be considered equal to arcane shield or fireball, but not the two put together. Given what I just wrote, I feel that the mana cost is unjustified. But that is the least of my concerns regarding the staff. The charge time I can live with as well.

If you could, would you be able to address the following issues:

1) The glintstone gun still gives significantly more skill damage than the arcane staff. This was the case between Fervor Bow and arcane daggers, and daggers were buffed. I don't see why the staff shouldn't be, at least in that regard.

2) The arcane sword and daggers both give 5 stats. The sword gives str, Int, crit, mana and hp. The daggers give Int, str, dex, crit and hp. The staff only gives 4 stats, which are Int, str, crit and hp. The 4 stats are roughly the same as the values of the primary and secondary stat the sword and daggers give, and the hp and crit is the same for all. Why does that staff not get a 5th stat attribute bonus? My suggestion would be some armor or extra crit (either in the form of crit directly or dex).

[Kingofninjas]

I apologize for the double post but for some reason when I try to edit my post from my phone it just gets deleted.

I also wished to point out that the consecrate spell seems to be a purely support spell. I understand mages are a support class and appreciate the weapon for helping us play that role, but the consecrate spell does not benefit mages in any way apart from 30 ish damage and 3 crit. The 1.25 second charge time doesn't justify such an insignificant bonus (for mages). Given proper shield rotation, we will always have 40% dmg reduction up, making consecrate useless. If it stacked it would be overpowered so that is not a solution.

In instances when mages are forced to play an offensive role, the staff lacks the firepower to do so, which is why I asked for the skill damage boost in the previous post. I don't expect it to surpass the glintstone gun, but if the difference between the arcane staff and glintstone gun was made equal to the difference between the Fervor bow and arcane daggers, that would be great.

[robetbee]

Finnaly

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[extrapayah]

other weapons' charged normal attack also do some damage equal to certain spells, if i'm not wrong, and of course, larger aoe than normal, and for some, it has additional stun effect, additional max hit target, and even (probably, we never know since you've never give us info on it) increased chance of the weapon's proc, and they are free of cost...

what i'm saying is when you're making 'consecrate' to be made as spell casted in charged attack, don't forget that you're actually removing the ability of the player to do normal charged attack of that weapon, and i think, it is need to be put into consideration/compensated into how powerful 'consecrate' should be

also, about the proc, as per my experience, proc that can procced without hitting any enemies is better in actual use, and if you compare to sword, dagger and staff has a disadvantage here...

and normal attack coverage/range, previous staves has a very wide attack coverage, making it easy to hits multiple enemies, i want to know from the users, is it the same with arcane staff? glintstone staff has a very narrow coverage, makes you hard even to hit 3 barrels, hahaha

and another thing to be taken as comparison is which proc damage is considered as 'environmental damage' and which is not? pretty sure it has effect on aggro, and some other things :P

and yes, i'm not the user of the new arcane staff, but many aspect of glintstone staff and kershal is dissapointing

[extrapayah]

also i want to add something to one of kingofninjas' point, it is about stat distribution,

the staff do give more str to mage than what daggers give int to rogue, and sword give int to warrior, so you might think that the it is justified to not give dex to mage's staff,
but the problem is the real value of each secondary atttributes is different for each class -> how important str to a mage, is not equal to how important int to warrior and rogue,
this is a very complex problem rooting from how you give different additional other bonus stat for every secondary(and primary) attribute to each class

and with the current distribution, i'm sorry but, you have failed to understand your own system in your own made stat distribution...

also, don't forget that normally, an attribute is given by level up, and each class gets equal 6 attribute points to be distributed freely, so giving a different number of total attribute in gears, without any other stat compensation can not be justified, if you're looking for balance

P.S. you might hate it, but please check my signature :D:D:D:D:D

[will0]

Consecrate spell area is really too small when cast example in PVP for warrior the sword lava spout spread like wild fire and mage stays at the small little spot or backing out to avoid the massacre using the arcane staff.

I don't even want to start how do mage defend themselves against rogues charging at PVP, Charging Consecrate spell when we are wide open is a free lunch to them even with arcane shield on.

If one mage cast Consecrate and another staff user does the same spell it immediately it cancel each other what is the good of this spell?

PS: The staff doesn't stun nor electrocute compare to Sword and Dagger, because we are support class with staff? Not all mages likes to play support role.

Consecrate spell cost mana .. fine since it is an 'intended' as the so call duo spell, to be honest i am not sure what the "shielding" even means (i doubt it is like arcane shield invulnerability). Does it means Consecrate spell reduce damage (shield) when cast? This is totally useless to mage since our arcane shield is already shielding isn't that it won't stack i.e Neckro shield as well together with arcane shield.

Lastly Mage doesn't do enough damage using this staff as discuss above (we do not only want to be only support class) why is it more inferior to mythic items being an "arcane" class item. The short range auto attack doesn't even do much attacking mobs in a face distance not talking about PVP play. We can be support role but it doesn't help in any offensive role as per discuss by other players here.

Normal Attack DoT Proc is hardly noticeable with the short range of staff auto attack.

[extrapayah]

also, a bit out of topic, talking about being supportive or offensive, in pve, thanks to your scaling system, all classes are forced to be offensive until certain point, there is no room for full support class...
as an example case, take a look at the complaints of warriors with the new AP, the situation is real... the situation right now is inviting a non-dps will slow your runs, and inviting a dps class, will only makes run faster if those players deals great damage, in my opinion the ideal case should be: inviting non-dps should not slow you down, and inviting dps class should always speed you up
another example case, the release of aegis helped warriors a lot. why? because it is an offensive weapons works magnificent with multiple mobs, not because it is a great defensive weapon or aggro/cc weapon...

also you are still insisting in using very different system between pve and pvp, so it is naturally very hard to find a balance between them.

so if you're sticking to the scaling system and how you make pve and pvp very different, you have to keep making weapons/gears that is have different proc/stat/mechanic for each pve and pvp (e.g. difference in chance, limitation, etc) consistently

[Caabatric]

Using this staff vs rogues: In the 1.25 seconds taken to charge this staff, a rogue can unleash a full combo taking a mage down to around 60% health, while the rogue stays at 100%???

Using the staff vs tanks: Against tanks I am constantly moving and using my long range spells to avoid incoming damage, the chance of me releasing more then 1 skill in a concencrate range....

Using the staff vs mages: Mages with a glintstone gun will already have an advantage with consitently hitting for more damage then I am. My concencrate will give me a slight advantage in the damage department, but by that time the opposing mage has landed 2-3 skill shots on me and consistently hit for about 30 more skill damage(including damage reduction) per skill shot.

In clash: Half the players are not in range of concencrate because of the small radius. If a rogue were to try to get in range they would likely get destroyed by aoe to deal an extra 40 damage? Tanks get a good buff from this however.

[klyftamon]

Using the stuff vs rogue:the fastest win and 1.25sec is to long for just a defensive skill..cant even run and hit
Using the staff vs war:well using staff or gun you are dead anyway

[Kingofninjas]

Using this staff vs rogues: In the 1.25 seconds taken to charge this staff, a rogue can unleash a full combo taking a mage down to around 60% health, while the rogue stays at 100%???

Using the staff vs tanks: Against tanks I am constantly moving and using my long range spells to avoid incoming damage, the chance of me releasing more then 1 skill in a concencrate range....

Using the staff vs mages: Mages with a glintstone gun will already have an advantage with consitently hitting for more damage then I am. My concencrate will give me a slight advantage in the damage department, but by that time the opposing mage has landed 2-3 skill shots on me and consistently hit for about 30 more skill damage(including damage reduction) per skill shot.

In clash: Half the players are not in range of concencrate because of the small radius. If a rogue were to try to get in range they would likely get destroyed by aoe to deal an extra 40 damage? Tanks get a good buff from this however.

Even after using consecrate spell, glintstone gun users will have the damage advantage. I compared a 3 eye wisdom gun to a 3 excellent mind arcane staff, so the damage from jewels was already in the staffs favor. The gun had more damage by roughly 30 skill damage on lightning skill.

[Diggdugg]

1. Circumference is too small for the charged staff to be viable for the Mage let alone the pt
2. Why doesn't the other classes use mana to use there's ???
3. If you say it's now a spell why is it still canceling each other out with multiple mages and yet it still takes mana from them? If it's a spell they should be able to all use there staffs... Agsin the other classes can all use the charged proc at the same time why can't mages???
4. If the procs are so even and random why does the Warriors leave a trail of lava pits, every time he swings it? While ours almost never procs???

But of course fix the rogues arc weapon when the blink an eye but tell mages theirs is working as you intended

[Zeus]

The warrior sword should drain mana per pool then...that proc should be considered a spell as well. Considering, it still overrides stun immunity (7 second rule).

However, please do look into KingofNinjas post. He's said everything I would've said and speaks volumes of logic about it.

There's actually three major errors with all the arcane weapons right now:
- staff inefficiencies
- warrior sword stunning through 7 second stun immunity rule in PvP
- dagger proc not procing if stun immunity is present. Therefore, stun immunity means proc immunity which is not cool either.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to us, it's very appreciated.

[klyftamon]

Cast Time
The cast time for Charged Arcane Shield is .75 seconds, and the cast time for charged Fireball is also .75 seconds. In total casting these two effects apart would take 1.5 seconds. The charge cast time for Consecrate is 1.25 seconds, and is therefore actually more efficient by comparison. It also is more timely in that you deal damage and shield yourself / allies with a single cast.


- Carapace

I prefer to use gun to cast fireball and shield than staff and consecrate.I don't know why casting consecrate is more efficient than fireball and shield,casting consecrate -fireball-shield=less dmg dealt while I get less dmg too ,casting fireball -shield-lighting =more dmg in less time this is what we want faster dmg dealt cu's probably we won't survive a rogue's or war's second combo

[Legendsoflegends]

i have dragon staff and i do elite king whenever he awake.. i solo sometimes not by choice.. ppl die ppl leave..

During elite king i die enough from dropping clock on elite king northal.. and now charging another to drop on king is like asking for another death count. bad enough i have to stand close to him and spam attacks with staff watching out for his redzone. I sometimes pray that king's attack is not going to kill me in 1 hit because i was close to his zone trying to charge proc. I actually proc the staff right in the middle of boss all the time ;p

if consecrate is like shield/fireball we should get the following for mana use

2sec invul
7m radius
hit chance reduced
etc..
Not asking for the above.. but be nice lol

why is shield and fireball being compared with proc.. so shield and fireball have been replaced.
Oh guess need to resp!

glintstone gun proc is better increase damage and speed omg

[Kingofninjas]

Another thing that doesn't seem to have been taken into account is the glintstone guns own proc. Sure, it doesn't proc as often as the arcane staff, but when it does, that proc gives MORE of a damage boost than the arcane staff. Taking that into consideration, the arcane staff definitely seems to be the inferior weapon for mages. It is only beneficial for rogues and tanks.

[Morholt]

Fixing the cancellation of other consecrates definitely needs to be fixed. It actually interrupts team play, which is what the staff is supposed to be strong at.

I have an idea that could fix the issue people are having about liking or not liking consecrate: two step charging. Make the normal charge time of a staff be there in the charge meter, and that spot lets you do a standard charged attack. Continue holding and it'll cast the spell. It may be a bit tricky to implement, but it is an idea. Also, now would be a good time to work on this, as I imagine it would need to be added through the release of a new client. Since we're close to one now, it would probably be good to work on prior to the new release. The community has agreed on this before: we'd rather wait an extra week for bugs & glitches to be fully worked out, or while good things are added.
Switching to a system like this could be really useful in the future. Have it set so weapons with one step charging (like we now have) continue to work like they do, and other weapons can have two step charging. In the future, these could allow for rogues to have a weapon that casts down a 10% mana pack, a warrior with a weapon that can cast a taunt, and whatever else you can imagine.
Or, perhaps when we equip one of these 'skill weapons,' another little button pops up (or just split the attack button into two different buttons), and one does what we have now for normal weapons (an attack-charge) and the other has the skill-charge.


Even after using consecrate spell, glintstone gun users will have the damage advantage. I compared a 3 eye wisdom gun to a 3 excellent mind arcane staff, so the damage from jewels was already in the staffs favor. The gun had more damage by roughly 30 skill damage on lightning skill.30 skill damage is pretty negligible in PvP. After defense & shields...it is very small. Nekro alone reduces it to 18.

Let's say a rogue has 6,000 life. And your lightning hits for 700. It will require 9 lightning to kill the rogue. Now, even if we ignore all reductions of that 30 skill damage...you still need to land 9 lightnings to kill the rogue.

So damage wise...there is no real noticeable difference. And the staff is superior for pve play.
In pvp, it is really the simple fact that it is staff. And staves suck for PvP. A gun auto aims and hits from a distance. Even if the staff had a sizeable damage advantage, 90% of us would still use the gun over it. When the lvl 36 mythic staff came out, the lvl 31 mythic gun was preferred. Same thing here. This is nothing new.


A lot of people need to learn to adjust to using consecrate. Don't freakin' charge it in the middle of a battle! Charge it pre-emptively. Ideally, cast it, move up some/out of it while you charge something (such as lightning), and bait your enemy to move towards you, as you then step backwards and into your consecrate (which your opponent will be unaware of it being there, as it was placed off of their screen when they first made visual contact with you). Heck, you can try using a charged gale to strike your opponent with, as you slide charge lite, land in your consecrate, and release lite. Get creative with new tactics.
And as Carapace said...it is intended to be best suited in a team setting.
So, we have a weapon better for 1v1 (gun), and another for group/pve (staff). Which is a good thing. "1 item better than all others in all ways" is no fun, boring, generic, and has been seen to negatively effect the economy--multiple times.

[Kingofninjas]

Fixing the cancellation of other consecrates definitely needs to be fixed. It actually interrupts team play, which is what the staff is supposed to be strong at.

I have an idea that could fix the issue people are having about liking or not liking consecrate: two step charging. Make the normal charge time of a staff be there in the charge meter, and that spot lets you do a standard charged attack. Continue holding and it'll cast the spell. It may be a bit tricky to implement, but it is an idea. Also, now would be a good time to work on this, as I imagine it would need to be added through the release of a new client. Since we're close to one now, it would probably be good to work on prior to the new release. The community has agreed on this before: we'd rather wait an extra week for bugs & glitches to be fully worked out, or while good things are added.
Switching to a system like this could be really useful in the future. Have it set so weapons with one step charging (like we now have) continue to work like they do, and other weapons can have two step charging. In the future, these could allow for rogues to have a weapon that casts down a 10% mana pack, a warrior with a weapon that can cast a taunt, and whatever else you can imagine.
Or, perhaps when we equip one of these 'skill weapons,' another little button pops up (or just split the attack button into two different buttons), and one does what we have now for normal weapons (an attack-charge) and the other has the skill-charge.

30 skill damage is pretty negligible in PvP. After defense & shields...it is very small. Nekro alone reduces it to 18.

Let's say a rogue has 6,000 life. And your lightning hits for 700. It will require 9 lightning to kill the rogue. Now, even if we ignore all reductions of that 30 skill damage...you still need to land 9 lightnings to kill the rogue.

So damage wise...there is no real noticeable difference. And the staff is superior for pve play.
In pvp, it is really the simple fact that it is staff. And staves suck for PvP. A gun auto aims and hits from a distance. Even if the staff had a sizeable damage advantage, 90% of us would still use the gun over it. When the lvl 36 mythic staff came out, the lvl 31 mythic gun was preferred. Same thing here. This is nothing new.


A lot of people need to learn to adjust to using consecrate. Don't freakin' charge it in the middle of a battle! Charge it pre-emptively. Ideally, cast it, move up some/out of it while you charge something (such as lightning), and bait your enemy to move towards you, as you then step backwards and into your consecrate (which your opponent will be unaware of it being there, as it was placed off of their screen when they first made visual contact with you). Heck, you can try using a charged gale to strike your opponent with, as you slide charge lite, land in your consecrate, and release lite. Get creative with new tactics.
And as Carapace said...it is intended to be best suited in a team setting.
So, we have a weapon better for 1v1 (gun), and another for group/pve (staff). Which is a good thing. "1 item better than all others in all ways" is no fun, boring, generic, and has been seen to negatively effect the economy--multiple times.

Your solution for fixing the lack of a charge attack only makes the time taken to cast the spell longer. Not viable IMO.

I dont know where your claims about 30 skill damage making no difference in PvP come from, but I can assure you they are wrong. It makes a significant damage. And 30 is only after consecrate, which makes us lose 1.25 seconds to cast. Before that it is closer to 75. Maybe in the PvP games you play 30 skill damage won't make a difference, but in the for the most part even gear clashes I play, it does.

Yes, staffs are worse in PvP, but you only saw people using lvl 31 mythic gun over kershal because they couldn't afford kershal. Kershal was still the best weapon for mages during the lvl 36 cap.

Im PvP, you have to move around. You can't stand in 1 spot and spam skills like you suggest we do. This is another disadvantage of consecrate. The radius is tiny and we are hardly in it.

[Bunny♥]

what is important for me is the increase of skill damage and multiple Consecrations should be allowed.

[Morholt]

Your solution for fixing the lack of a charge attack only makes the time taken to cast the spell longer. Not viable IMO.

Yes, staffs are worse in PvP, but you only saw people using lvl 31 mythic gun over kershal because they couldn't afford kershal. Kershal was still the best weapon for mages during the lvl 36 cap.

Im PvP, you have to move around. You can't stand in 1 spot and spam skills like you suggest we do. This is another disadvantage of consecrate. The radius is tiny and we are hardly in it.
-I never said to extend the charge time. I said to make a charged attack at the normal time for a normal charged auto attack. And then you have the option of casting consecrate by choosing to charge the 1.25 seconds.
*Tap auto attack: normal attack
*Charge auto attack for .5 seconds: charged attack
*Charge auto attack for 1.25 seconds: cast spell.
I am sorry if that was too complicatedly explained previously. I forgot, you seem to have a history of being unable to follow thoughts & concepts expressed through the flow of written/typed words. My deepest apologies for not making overly simplified bullet points from the start.

-I said the 36 mythic staff. Kershal isn't that weapon. The 36 MYTHIC weapon was pretty readily available, since it released in two skins--in fact, the market was considered "flooded" with mythic weapons then (which is funny, compared to how bad it is with the current 46 mythics).

-I said DON'T stand in place. I said play smart and cast it 'secrectively.' I also said to charge it pre-emptively (sorry for the big word: to charge it beforehand/in preparation). This means the 1.25 second charge time isn't much of an issue. You should really only attempt to cast it once in pvp: very early. Are people really trying to spam this in battle? Just cast it and hope you or a teammate can use it for a brief moment. Don't force it. If you get bent up on standing on it, you're going to be predictable for you opponent. Since you should only be charging the staff once--and before engaging the opponent(s), it could take 5 minutes [*hyperbole*] to charge.

[extrapayah]

two step charging is interesting... but the client need to be responsive, not blocking commands every time a bit lag/spike happened,

or giving additional delay on successful charged spell

also to be fair, all charging time for normal attacks need to be reduced :P, because no charged normal attack can be charged less than 1s

[potpot]

in short no changes.. anyways we are just mages, if you are rouge or warrior it will be easy..

[Veenihiv]

in short no changes.. anyways we are just mages, if you are rouge or warrior it will be easy..

Lel.. Just mages ?! I dont think u even use the Arc staff

[potpot]

Lel.. Just mages ?! I dont think u even use the Arc staff

Lol you didnt quite get what I mean, If you are rouge or warrior any complaints from them they easily change.. unlike us mages.. and for you info I have arc staff and im selling my extra one as well..

[Jaffakex]

Firstly, thank you very much for creating this thread and posting the explanation. This kind of interaction between developers and the community is quite rare on other forums.

Secondly, let's delve into the details.


"The intent for the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff was to add another spell to the Sorcerer's arsenal, which is evidenced by the 100% chance to cast Consecrate when charging the staff. "

This is evident, since Consacrate is not a proc, but actually a charged attack spell. But as your numbers suggest, Consacrate costs more mana and time than fireball and arcane shield. This would suggest that this spell is more powerful than the latter ones? In reality it is not. Consacrate doesn't grant initial invincibility, stun immunity, nor does it grant knockback or stun of the fireball.
In practice this means that it won't be used. Why using a spell that is more taxing in mana and time if I can have beter results with fireball and shield?

But this is only from a point of view of one player (mage), how about the point of view of the whole party? As you explain here:


"So casting Consecrate in a group scenario results in a more efficient cast / mana usage for the staff. It serves better as a strategic spell cast during moments of a confrontation. "

This is true, when you look at the whole party, Consacrate has more value then a fireball and a shield. Maybe only fireball adds to the whole party value, since it knockbacks/stuns the mobs.

But, here we go again, this is undermined by the fact that the size of Consacrate is quite stingy and that another user's Consacrate will cancel yours. To avoid this, I think many parties would allow only one mage with Arcane staff per party. Or if there were more mages in a party, the spell won't be used as often.

So in the end, we come to the conclusion that Consacrate is a bonus spell for mages, that will be used very rarely on hard(er) maps, since there are more drawbacks then bonuses for a staff user.

Just one example, in elites I will rather charge a fireball then charge a shield rushing the mobs, than cast a Consacrate. The latter option doesn't grant me stun immunity, 2 sec invicibility and a chance to knockback the mobs. If I just charge Consacrate it gives a damage reduction that is quickly undermined by the fact that all the mob is now focused on me (because of a taunt) and I end up losing half of my health.

Thanks for your time.

[Niixed]

I understand mages are a support class and appreciate the weapon for helping us play that role

I agree with everything else you said, but I need to take issue with this particular statement. No player should be forced to play any role regardless of which class they choose. There are only three classes, and players chose which one to play for a variety of reasons. If a player chooses the sorcerer class, there is no good reason he or she should be railroaded (either socially or via game mechanics) into playing a support role no matter what the prevailing opinion may be. Original design intents be damned, let each players play a class how he or she would like to play it.

Secondly, the fact is that the Sorcerer class is NOT a support class. With toughness and a superior skill set with which to help the team, the Warrior class fits the 'support' role much better than Sorcerers ever could. The weakest in terms of health and armor, Sorcerers have exactly one skill that can directly help team members, Lifegiver. Warriors have three! Sorcerers who attempt to play the support role often spend more time dying and reviving than actually helping. Who would tolerate a Sorcerer using Lifegiver in elites, which aggros mobs? In PvP, Rogues often view Sorcerers as support merely because Rogues need constant mana recharges. Because so many players play rogues in PvP, this narrow-minded viewpiont prevails among many of the game's top PvP players. The game is called Arcane Legends, not Rogue Legends. The spotlight should be shared equally among all three classes.

It's obvious that Consecrate is meant to support the team, and that's how the spell is designed. I'm all for helping the team, but not if it means Sorcerers will continue to be erroneously branded as "The Support Class" and must deal with increasing social pressure to play a support role.

[Kingofninjas]

I agree with everything else you said, but I need to take issue with this particular statement. No player should be forced to play any role regardless of which class they choose. There are only three classes, and players chose which one to play for a variety of reasons. If a player chooses the sorcerer class, there is no good reason he or she should be railroaded (either socially or via game mechanics) into playing a support role no matter what the prevailing opinion may be. Original design intents be damned, let each players play a class how he or she would like to play it.

Secondly, the fact is that the Sorcerer class is NOT a support class. With toughness and a superior skill set with which to help the team, the Warrior class fits the 'support' role much better than Sorcerers ever could. The weakest in terms of health and armor, Sorcerers have exactly one skill that can directly help team members, Lifegiver. Warriors have three! Sorcerers who attempt to play the support role often spend more time dying and reviving than actually helping. Who would tolerate a Sorcerer using Lifegiver in elites, which aggros mobs? In PvP, Rogues often view Sorcerers as support merely because Rogues need constant mana recharges. Because so many players play rogues in PvP, this narrow-minded viewpiont prevails among many of the game's top PvP players. The game is called Arcane Legends, not Rogue Legends. The spotlight should be shared equally among all three classes.

It's obvious that Consecrate is meant to support the team, and that's how the spell is designed. I'm all for helping the team, but not if it means Sorcerers will continue to be erroneously branded as "The Support Class" and must deal with increasing social pressure to play a support role.

Fair enough, but you took what I said out of context. I believe I went on to say that we should be able to fend for ourselves and that's why the skill damage should be increased.

Also, I think sorcerers tag as "support class" was only worsened by the arcane sword and glintstone set for tanks. Now tanks need mama too and can damage and stunlock much Kore effectively than mages, leaving us to play "support".

[Kingofninjas]

-I never said to extend the charge time. I said to make a charged attack at the normal time for a normal charged auto attack. And then you have the option of casting consecrate by choosing to charge the 1.25 seconds.
*Tap auto attack: normal attack
*Charge auto attack for .5 seconds: charged attack
*Charge auto attack for 1.25 seconds: cast spell.
I am sorry if that was too complicatedly explained previously. I forgot, you seem to have a history of being unable to follow thoughts & concepts expressed through the flow of written/typed words. My deepest apologies for not making overly simplified bullet points from the start.

-I said the 36 mythic staff. Kershal isn't that weapon. The 36 MYTHIC weapon was pretty readily available, since it released in two skins--in fact, the market was considered "flooded" with mythic weapons then (which is funny, compared to how bad it is with the current 46 mythics).

-I said DON'T stand in place. I said play smart and cast it 'secrectively.' I also said to charge it pre-emptively (sorry for the big word: to charge it beforehand/in preparation). This means the 1.25 second charge time isn't much of an issue. You should really only attempt to cast it once in pvp: very early. Are people really trying to spam this in battle? Just cast it and hope you or a teammate can use it for a brief moment. Don't force it. If you get bent up on standing on it, you're going to be predictable for you opponent. Since you should only be charging the staff once--and before engaging the opponent(s), it could take 5 minutes [*hyperbole*] to charge.

Sorry. Let me rephrase. You didn't say stand in 1 spot (in your first post, not the reply). You said waste 3 seconds (at least) or the process luring the enemy to it, then stand in 1 spot and fight. Even less effective. Charging it pre emptively is useless because when it's charged then, most of the time the team will have Nekro shield. The only benefit is 3% crit and 30 ish damage. Better off try to set of the wisdom gun's proc.

As for the charge time, you said, "Make the normal charge time of a staff be there in the charge meter, and that spot lets you do a standard charged attack. Continue holding and it'll cast the spell". To me, that means the charge time of the weapon for a regular charged attack remains the same and you spend extra time to casting the spell.

Whether you are talking about kershal or lvl 36 mythic staff, my point remains. The staff was better. If you don't believe, go check the stat difference and skill damage. Maybe numbers will change your mind where words are clearly ineffectual.

Try not to be so butthurt. I have no clue who you are. If you have some beef with me, well get in line.

[eugene9707]

hmmmm just a question ..... IF the concentration skill = fireball + shield..... where's the aoe stun ? ._.

IMO, without stun, its not a viable alternative to fireball (as the only reason to charge it is for the stun, not aoe damage)

[Niixed]

Thanks a million to Carapace and the team for having yet another open discussion! It's awesome to know our voices are being heard. I know I speak for many when I say that we appreciate the thought, time and effort you put into making the game fun to play.

It is disappointing to hear that the team is currently content with Dragon Hunter Staff. Though it may appear that way, this is not a case of buff-envy. Due to the complex nature of the staff, it took a little time to discover its weaknesses. Many players still may not recognize what they are. In the case of the Dragon Hunter Blades the weaknesses were obvious and, let's be honest, Rogue players tend to be more impatient and demanding than Sorcerer players. However, I trust that you'll let this case be decided on it own merits.

Staves are notorious for generating more sorcerer deaths than guns because staves are hand-to-hand combat weapons. Because sorcerers are extremely vulnerable at close range, a gun is almost always the smarter choice. The only type of staff I'd ever consider using as my main weapon is an arcane staff - nothing else comes close to properly addressing that extreme vulnerability. The Ker'shal Scepter made up for that vulnerability quite nicely. The Dragon Hunter Staff may have a shot if Consecrate is sufficiently improved.

How to Fix Consecrate

Unfortunately, Consecrate cannot replace either Fireball or Arcane Shield. Fusing inferior versions of two existing skills does not necessarily create a better spell. In the case of Consecrate, it overlaps significantly with both skills (and Nekro!) but isn't as powerful as each individual skill. During hardcore gameplay (Elites, PvP, timed), Sorcerers must have those skills at maximum strength. Few sorcerers will remove Arcane Shield or Fireball from their specs because of Consecrate. Arcane weapons exist to be used during fast-paced, hardcore gameplay. An arcane staff that takes 1.25 seconds to cast a weakened fireball and an immobile damage reduction field feels sluggish and is not up to par. Casting Consecrate is a huge sacrifice for Sorcerers who often must retreat from the AoE immediately after casting.

However, I think that Consecrate can be tweaked a little to make it remarkably useful while still keeping it in balance with the game as a whole. The idea behind the word "consecrate" is to bless, to make make something sacred - in this case the ground on which the spell is centered. Why not take the concept just a little further? In folklore, all manner of foul creatures cannot traverse consecrated land without enduring severe penalties.


Create a Perimeter - Drive back (push back) all enemies to the edge of the area of effect. This allows Sorcerers and other team members to stay within the AoE without having to retreat and lose the benefit of the spell that cost the Sorcerer mana and time to cast.
Slow Enemy Movement Speed by 40% - Once enemies have been driven back, they can re-enter, but moving through consecrated ground is like travelling through muddy swamp water.
Add Damage over Time - Enemies take damage walking on consecrated ground. It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but at least a token amount. The spell shouldn't be too OP.
Reduce Damage Reduction to 15% - for the purposes of spell balancing. If #1 and #2 are implemented, allies within the AoE will take less damage anyway.
Reduce Initial Spell Damage by 33% - to help balance out the DoT feature.
Reduce casting time to 1.125 seconds - just a little shaved off will make a big difference in how it feels to cast.
Keep mana cost the same - the above changes would make it well worth the expense.

I hope my suggestions are well within the 'feasible' range, thus increasing the probability that they will be implemented. I understand and appreciate the overhead costs involved with re-examining and altering content that has already been released. I encourage other players to comment on my suggestions.

Edit: Based on feedback altered #2 from 70% msr to 40% msr. Increased #4 from 10% Damage Reduction to 15% to compensate.

[Remiem]

Thank you everyone from taking the time to respond with such detail. It really helps us out. :) We'll be discussing your feedback this week and will update you on Wednesday with any news/changes.

[csyui]

Players will never get satisfied until their weapons can do 100% stun, DoT, shield and banishment at the same time, or maybe "/killall" should be implemented.

[Energizeric]

I learned my lesson with the Kershal. This time around I will be keeping my Glintstone Wisdom gun. Guns > Staffs for just about every situation except perhaps for doing tombs runs like WT4 and KM3. For PvP, bosses, and elites, guns work much better as their range and ability to auto aim means the sorcerer can keep distance from the enemy, keep moving and run circles around a boss, and strike from the rear of the party in PvP. With a staff, it forces you to stop moving so you can face the enemy, and you must be much closer to the enemy because of limited range. Between that and the reduced skill damage, I cannot see why anyone would choose the staff over the gun. And BTW, the Glintstone gun also has a proc that increases damage for the party.

[will0]

Thanks a million to Carapace and the team for having yet another open discussion! It's awesome to know our voices are being heard. I know I speak for many when I say that we appreciate the thought, time and effort you put into making the game fun to play.

It is disappointing to hear that the team is currently content with Dragon Hunter Staff. Though it may appear that way, this is not a case of buff-envy. Due to the complex nature of the staff, it took a little time to discover its weaknesses. Many players still may not recognize what they are. In the case of the Dragon Hunter Blades the weaknesses were obvious and, let's be honest, Rogue players tend to be more impatient and demanding than Sorcerer players. However, I trust that you'll let this case be decided on it own merits.

Staves are notorious for generating more sorcerer deaths than guns because staves are hand-to-hand combat weapons. Because sorcerers are extremely vulnerable at close range, a gun is almost always the smarter choice. The only type of staff I'd ever consider using as my main weapon is an arcane staff - nothing else comes close to properly addressing that extreme vulnerability. The Ker'shal Scepter made up for that vulnerability quite nicely. The Dragon Hunter Staff may have a shot if Consecrate is sufficiently improved.

How to Fix Consecrate

Unfortunately, Consecrate cannot replace either Fireball or Arcane Shield. Fusing inferior versions of two existing skills does not necessarily create a better spell. In the case of Consecrate, it overlaps significantly with both skills (and Nekro!) but isn't as powerful as each individual skill. During hardcore gameplay (Elites, PvP, timed), Sorcerers must have those skills at maximum strength. Few sorcerers will remove Arcane Shield or Fireball from their specs because of Consecrate. Arcane weapons exist to be used during fast-paced, hardcore gameplay. An arcane staff that takes 1.25 seconds to cast a weakened fireball and an immobile damage reduction field feels sluggish and is not up to par. Casting Consecrate is a huge sacrifice for Sorcerers who often must retreat from the AoE immediately after casting.

However, I think that Consecrate can be tweaked a little to make it remarkably useful while still keeping it in balance with the game as a whole. The idea behind the word "consecrate" is to bless, to make make something sacred - in this case the ground on which the spell is centered. Why not take the concept just a little further? In folklore, all manner of foul creatures cannot traverse consecrated land without enduring severe penalties.


Create a Perimeter - Drive back (push back) all enemies to the edge of the area of effect. This allows Sorcerers and other team members to stay within the AoE without having to retreat and lose the benefit of the spell that cost the Sorcerer mana and time to cast.
Slow Enemy Movement Speed by 40% - Once enemies have been driven back, they can re-enter, but moving through consecrated ground is like travelling through muddy swamp water.
Add Damage over Time - Enemies take damage walking on consecrated ground. It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but at least a token amount. The spell shouldn't be too OP.
Reduce Damage Reduction to 15% - for the purposes of spell balancing. If #1 and #2 are implemented, allies within the AoE will take less damage anyway.
Reduce Initial Spell Damage by 33% - to help balance out the DoT feature.
Reduce casting time to 1.125 seconds - just a little shaved off will make a big difference in how it feels to cast.
Keep mana cost the same - the above changes would make it well worth the expense.

I hope my suggestions are well within the 'feasible' range, thus increasing the probability that they will be implemented. I understand and appreciate the overhead costs involved with re-examining and altering content that has already been released. I encourage other players to comment on my suggestions.

Edit: Based on feedback altered #2 from 70% msr to 40% msr. Increased #4 from 10% Damage Reduction to 15% to compensate.


Overall i like the ideas by Thundyrz :

Slow Enemy Movement Speed by 40% - Once enemies have been driven back, they can re-enter, but moving through consecrated ground is like travelling through muddy swamp water. >> i would think this option is good, but eventually enemies will be frozen with % chance like breeze AA this give mage some edge to counter attack.

Reduce Initial Spell Damage by 33% - to help balance out the DoT feature. >> not sure how you derive 33% but yes the cast damage should be dealing more since it cost mana and suppose to be like a FB damage would be ideal it will work like a time shift spell with DOT and should explode with close impact (damage).

Reduce casting time to 1.125 seconds - just a little shaved off will make a big difference in how it feels to cast. >> when charging staff skill, mage should be granted the invulnerability (+2 sec) of the time taken to cast this spell to avoid enemies given chance to attack caster. Why ? a full geared mage mage (imbue / glint with decent jewels) we are low in hp and armor compared to other 2 class.

+1 multiple consecrate spell should be allow and not cancelled by up to 2 arc staff mage when they are cast consecutively it should allow up to 2 spell cast maximum per team or give a wider range of the spell area like FB upgraded skill area.

No issues with mana cost if those above are implemented as part of the arcane staff updates to balance out staff imbalance.

[extrapayah]

anyway, will be great if we are given a clear indicator like dragon bite for the dot proc (for the one that give percentage based damage), and equally, to warrior's stun effect

[Kingofninjas]

Someone suggested that the consecrate spell follow the caster around. I loved that idea. That coupled with allowing multiple, UNSTACKABLE (i.e., the bonus does not stack) consecrate spell in a map would seem perfect to me, in addition to increasing skill damage. I would be okay with leaving the charge time as high as it is now of those were implemented. If the spell doesn't follow us around, then charge time should be reduced IMO.

[Platfarmer]

Thanks a million to Carapace and the team for having yet another open discussion! It's awesome to know our voices are being heard. I know I speak for many when I say that we appreciate the thought, time and effort you put into making the game fun to play.

It is disappointing to hear that the team is currently content with Dragon Hunter Staff. Though it may appear that way, this is not a case of buff-envy. Due to the complex nature of the staff, it took a little time to discover its weaknesses. Many players still may not recognize what they are. In the case of the Dragon Hunter Blades the weaknesses were obvious and, let's be honest, Rogue players tend to be more impatient and demanding than Sorcerer players. However, I trust that you'll let this case be decided on it own merits.

Staves are notorious for generating more sorcerer deaths than guns because staves are hand-to-hand combat weapons. Because sorcerers are extremely vulnerable at close range, a gun is almost always the smarter choice. The only type of staff I'd ever consider using as my main weapon is an arcane staff - nothing else comes close to properly addressing that extreme vulnerability. The Ker'shal Scepter made up for that vulnerability quite nicely. The Dragon Hunter Staff may have a shot if Consecrate is sufficiently improved.

How to Fix Consecrate

Unfortunately, Consecrate cannot replace either Fireball or Arcane Shield. Fusing inferior versions of two existing skills does not necessarily create a better spell. In the case of Consecrate, it overlaps significantly with both skills (and Nekro!) but isn't as powerful as each individual skill. During hardcore gameplay (Elites, PvP, timed), Sorcerers must have those skills at maximum strength. Few sorcerers will remove Arcane Shield or Fireball from their specs because of Consecrate. Arcane weapons exist to be used during fast-paced, hardcore gameplay. An arcane staff that takes 1.25 seconds to cast a weakened fireball and an immobile damage reduction field feels sluggish and is not up to par. Casting Consecrate is a huge sacrifice for Sorcerers who often must retreat from the AoE immediately after casting.

However, I think that Consecrate can be tweaked a little to make it remarkably useful while still keeping it in balance with the game as a whole. The idea behind the word "consecrate" is to bless, to make make something sacred - in this case the ground on which the spell is centered. Why not take the concept just a little further? In folklore, all manner of foul creatures cannot traverse consecrated land without enduring severe penalties.


Create a Perimeter - Drive back (push back) all enemies to the edge of the area of effect. This allows Sorcerers and other team members to stay within the AoE without having to retreat and lose the benefit of the spell that cost the Sorcerer mana and time to cast.
Slow Enemy Movement Speed by 40% - Once enemies have been driven back, they can re-enter, but moving through consecrated ground is like travelling through muddy swamp water.
Add Damage over Time - Enemies take damage walking on consecrated ground. It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but at least a token amount. The spell shouldn't be too OP.
Reduce Damage Reduction to 15% - for the purposes of spell balancing. If #1 and #2 are implemented, allies within the AoE will take less damage anyway.
Reduce Initial Spell Damage by 33% - to help balance out the DoT feature.
Reduce casting time to 1.125 seconds - just a little shaved off will make a big difference in how it feels to cast.
Keep mana cost the same - the above changes would make it well worth the expense.

I hope my suggestions are well within the 'feasible' range, thus increasing the probability that they will be implemented. I understand and appreciate the overhead costs involved with re-examining and altering content that has already been released. I encourage other players to comment on my suggestions.

Edit: Based on feedback altered #2 from 70% msr to 40% msr. Increased #4 from 10% Damage Reduction to 15% to compensate.

I do prefer a pull skill instead of a push, sort of a whim pull or a trap pull which makes it easier to kill the group of mobs and also keep the mobs within the area of effect , pushing can make things messy sometimes.

[Jazzi]

I learned my lesson with the Kershal. This time around I will be keeping my Glintstone Wisdom gun. Guns > Staffs for just about every situation except perhaps for doing tombs runs like WT4 and KM3. For PvP, bosses, and elites, guns work much better as their range and ability to auto aim means the sorcerer can keep distance from the enemy, keep moving and run circles around a boss, and strike from the rear of the party in PvP. With a staff, it forces you to stop moving so you can face the enemy, and you must be much closer to the enemy because of limited range. Between that and the reduced skill damage, I cannot see why anyone would choose the staff over the gun. And BTW, the Glintstone gun also has a proc that increases damage for the party.

Yes, guns generally work better. However this is not the case this time (except maybe in PvP). In PvE and especially in elite and especially vs bosses the staff is immensely superior to the glintstone mythic guns. The difference in t2 runs speed with 2 mages with arcane staves vs same mages (same skill + same rest of the gear) and glint guns is 0,5-1 minute per run in favour of the staff. Anyone who is saying that the glint gun is better than the arcane staff for PvE either hasn't used the staff at all, or doesn't know how to us it :D

You real should try using the arcane staff ;)

[Niixed]

I do prefer a pull skill instead of a push, sort of a whim pull or a trap pull which makes it easier to kill the group of mobs and also keep the mobs within the area of effect , pushing can make things messy sometimes.

I seriously considered pull instead of push, but I think that feature is too powerful to be included in an already-powerful spell. Additionally, it wouldn't make sense conceptually. It's Consecrate, not Concentrate. I wanted every suggestion to be something STS is actually able to use.

For those concerned with mob management, including a push feature could be very useful. Because it can be used repeatedly and on-demand, Consecrate could still be used to drive mobs together. Sorcerers just have to be a little more creative and position themselves properly when using the spell. If a Sorcerer misfires and unintentionally disperses mobs, he could potentially correct the error by re-casting the spell in the appropriate location.

[Niixed]

Someone suggested that the consecrate spell follow the caster around. I loved that idea. That coupled with allowing multiple, UNSTACKABLE (i.e., the bonus does not stack) consecrate spell in a map would seem perfect to me, in addition to increasing skill damage. I would be okay with leaving the charge time as high as it is now of those were implemented. If the spell doesn't follow us around, then charge time should be reduced IMO.

I honestly think this would be a great alternative to my suggestions. I have a feeling it was initially considered during the design process and rejected for some reason. One reason could be that it may overlap too much with Arcane Shield and Nekro if the spell moved with the Sorcerer.

[Dragoonclaws]

Guys,

I don't think they have any plans on changing the Arcane Staff. Carapace made this thread so everybody understands how it works and how it was meant to work. You could still try... but seriously, it's been 3 weeks since it has been released and people will go wild again if StS does a change again. Buffing and Nerfing isn't everybody's favourite thing. You can't ask for a buff or a nerf because the staff doesn't work the way you wanted it to work. They gave the staff a combo fifth skill and gave it some consequences. Just take it. that's the staff, now use it or dump it.

My 50 cents... feat nickelback

[Sorcerie]

The only thing that needs to be modified, imho, is the skill damage and/or base stats so that it's close to par with the glint rifle.

As others have pointed out, i don't see the reason why they would buff the daggs to balance this out with the bow and not the staff.

Either give up a boost to crit, add dex to the staff, or do a little of both for good meaure.

This way the new arcane weapons are equal in terms of balance and damage across all the classes.

and tbh, I find the DOT proc on the normal attacks a bit underwhelming. I don't really see the little skull icon nearly as often as I would like, but maybe that's just me.

Also, the multiple casts issue is real.

You can't always tell when a party member is going to use Consecrate in the chaos of mob clearing so more often than not you end up cancelling out someone else's cast, which can interrupt party positions and battle flow. I feel like a max of two should be allowed to allow for a little bit more freedom of the weapon and overall range.

----

I do not recommend a push proc for charging the arcane staff, push is easily the most annoying feature to a piece of equipment in the game.

There is nothing worse than trying to clear a mob and someones planar pendant procs and throws the entire flow of the team off as they scramble to get re-adjusted.

[Otahaanak]

The skill damage needs a buff and the single instance of consecrate needs to be looked into. If I cast a fireball it doesn't cancel another party members spell. A rogues dagger proc doesn't cancel another, nor does the lava proc of one war cancel another.






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Niixed]

Guys,

I don't think they have any plans on changing the Arcane Staff. Carapace made this thread so everybody understands how it works and how it was meant to work. You could still try... but seriously, it's been 3 weeks since it has been released and people will go wild again if StS does a change again. Buffing and Nerfing isn't everybody's favourite thing. You can't ask for a buff or a nerf because the staff doesn't work the way you wanted it to work. They gave the staff a combo fifth skill and gave it some consequences. Just take it. that's the staff, now use it or dump it.

My 50 cents... feat nickelback

Yes, I'm well aware of the dev team isn't going to be easy to convince. Everyone who actually read the op realizes the situation. Consecrate doesn't work well but it is supposed to be one of the main features of the staff. Asking for it to be changed so it yields the proper returns for the amount of sacrifice isn't asking for too much. What I find unhelpful is when others discourage change advocates, telling us to just give up and accept things the way they are.

[Niixed]

I do not recommend a push proc for charging the arcane staff, push is easily the most annoying feature to a piece of equipment in the game.

There is nothing worse than trying to clear a mob and someones planar pendant procs and throws the entire flow of the team off as they scramble to get re-adjusted.

The reason the pendant proc is so irritating is that you have no control over when it triggers. If you had control over the push proc, wouldn't that be far more useful? Being able to push on-demand repeatedly in this manner is an ability that hasn't ever existed in Arcane Legends.

I think push is the option that best supports the idea behind the spell, aka 'the team making a stand on holy ground vs enemies.' Many hate 'push' but it's mostly because we usually lack control over when it goes off. If used properly, it could be an amazing tool, both for the caster and his allies.

[Dragoonclaws]

Yes, I'm well aware of the dev team isn't going to be easy to convince. Everyone who actually read the op realizes the situation. Consecrate doesn't work well but it is supposed to be one of the main features of the staff. Asking for it to be changed so it yields the proper returns for the amount of sacrifice isn't asking for too much. What I find unhelpful is when others discourage change advocates, telling us to just give up and accept things the way they are.

I've hoped for a buff too. Every situation is worth it. I've read the Op and the most of the comments. Both sides have greats ideas. I've waited for a reply from a dev, but they don't seem to be on a position to change anything. Giving up is when you can do something but you don't. Over here, you guys have been writing books about the changes you wanted to see, the tests you've done, the reality you experience when using the staff. Who is better placed to tell how the items do but the players? That's not giving up. The thread is here, your ideas are there. They are reading each of them and probably discussing it in their office.

Gotta love this community, cheers guys!

[Niixed]

In the end, I trust STS to make the best decision they can with the information they have. I just spent an inordinate amount of time advocating for changes to the staff and I can't afford to spend any more. Whether or not the dev team makes any changes, I'm very happy they gave us the floor and listened anyone who wanted to make a case. Thanks, all!

[Sorcerie]

The reason the pendant proc is so irritating is that you have no control over when it triggers. If you had control over the push proc, wouldn't that be far more useful? Being able to push on-demand repeatedly in this manner is an ability that hasn't ever existed in Arcane Legends.

I think push is the option that best supports the idea behind the spell, aka 'the team making a stand on holy ground vs enemies.' Many hate 'push' but it's mostly because we usually lack control over when it goes off. If used properly, it could be an amazing tool, both for the caster and his allies.Then what is Gale? Isn't that the ability to push on-demand?

I get what you're trying to say here as a concept, but personally, I find the push a effect a total nuisance.

If I want to push the enemy, I'll use Gale, I don't want it as an effect on a weapon.

Especially considering this was an effect on the Kershal that no one really cared for anyway.

[Kriticality]

While on paper the explanation sounds ok, the application in practice is not the same. Thundyrz and jay have some good suggestions. I prefer the staff personally bc I like to play support Mage in pvp. While I believe it can be more beneficial in a team environment, it really is to help rogues survive. Occasionally you get them out of a sticky situation. On its own, there is still much to be desired. Essentially the opposite of the new sword for example.

As it stands now with only one consecrate allowed at a time, I would honestly prefer the proc and consecrate to be switched. Make dot 100% with this charge and and give a chance to consecrate with auto spam. In pve the staff is great. I'll give you that. But so is sword and dagger. In pvp not so much. There are other mages that log many hours. I put in my fair share. This honestly would be easier to explain if a dev team would come clash with us. Sword is far more useful than staff.

At least give us a usable spell. What is the real world application of consecrate vs a rogue or warrior? It certainly isn't on par with either fb or shield and not even close to both together. Here's another suggestion. Give a bubble for consecration. Like warrior heal bubble. Let it really be defensive. Give everyone in range a 1 second damage immunity. Not as op as shield. But make everyone think twice before rushing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingofninjas]

I honestly think this would be a great alternative to my suggestions. I have a feeling it was initially considered during the design process and rejected for some reason. One reason could be that it may overlap too much with Arcane Shield and Nekro if the spell moved with the Sorcerer.

I think having the spell follow the mage would work perfectly with your idea for the spell to apply dot. Heck, let there be 0 impact damage and dot roughly 2/3 the power of an sns pool applied to enemies in the range of the spell. Seeing how tanks can basically proc 7-10 sns damage pools while permanently stun-locking you in them, in addition to the damage buff their proc gives them, what I ask for is more than reasonable.

[Kingofninjas]

While on paper the explanation sounds ok, the application in practice is not the same. Thundyrz and jay have some good suggestions. I prefer the staff personally bc I like to play support Mage in pvp. While I believe it can be more beneficial in a team environment, it really is to help rogues survive. Occasionally you get them out of a sticky situation. On its own, there is still much to be desired. Essentially the opposite of the new sword for example.

As it stands now with only one consecrate allowed at a time, I would honestly prefer the proc and consecrate to be switched. Make dot 100% with this charge and and give a chance to consecrate with auto spam. In pve the staff is great. I'll give you that. But so is sword and dagger. In pvp not so much. There are other mages that log many hours. I put in my fair share. This honestly would be easier to explain if a dev team would come clash with us. Sword is far more useful than staff.

At least give us a usable spell. What is the real world application of consecrate vs a rogue or warrior? It certainly isn't on par with either fb or shield and not even close to both together. Here's another suggestion. Give a bubble for consecration. Like warrior heal bubble. Let it really be defensive. Give everyone in range a 1 second damage immunity. Not as op as shield. But make everyone think twice before rushing.


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Maybe 1 second damage immunity is a bit high, seeing as how enemies would only have a .25 second window to damage a player in the spell range if the mage charged the proc non stop (with perfect release time and no lag). But I like the idea of making it more on par with arcane shield. I'm sure the dev team can figure out exact numbers.

Dev team should definitely clash with some players, and use the weapons for themselves to see the imbalance. All these issues really stem from a lack of in game testing by developers themselves.

[Kriticality]

Cara and rem pm me in game. Let's do this. :)


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[tomsawer]

Very well put dragoonclaws.

[potpot]

calling all mages to comment here, We need more comments for STS to hear us out!
Imagine 5 days only 60 comments?!
Come on cooperate!

[will0]

Fairly enough suggestions on here already. I hope sts could look at the spell making mage more survivable against the op warrior lava pool which Spawn non stop and it stacks... Consecrate spell should be allow to stick too.... If so..

[Kriticality]

Cara I need a bit more specific explanation. In PVP, how do I get the most out of my staff? Let's say TDM 1 tank, 2 mage, 1 rogue. Or CTF clash 2 tank, 2 mage, 1 rogue. Can you tell me your thoughts on the benefits of the staff in these situations? Of course take into account the lava pulls and 6 axes flying at you. DPS has to hide. To get close enough to consecrate before someone drops on the other team almost certainly means death. Only place I see to use staff is at the beginning. For only the damage and crit buff bc damage reduction doesn't stack with nekro shield. At least for the caster, make the damage reduction stack with both nekro shield and mage arcane shield. If it's more of a survival support weapon then let it do something meaningful. And for the love of everything holy, change the cancellation of consecrate. Imagine having a blocker in a game with nekro and a staff. They can false start nekro and cancel any other mage consecrate.

Currently not only is consecrate not good enough, it can be cancelled at anytime by any other mage. C'mon guys. It lacks damage, consecrate isn't good enough. It provides health and is good for pve timed runs on some maps. That's the reality. It also makes mages kind of tanky which is nice if they have full/almost full eye build. Do something about this thing please. Or at least come play some games with us so you can see the real PVP application of this thing.

IGN Papapaper

Add me. Let's play please.

[will0]

Arcane Staff Update

Based on further analysis of the Arcane Staff, we've made the following adjustments that will go into effect Thursday 2/25.

+ There can now be more than one Consecrate up at a time on a map--the effects do NOT stack.
+ The AOE range of Consecrate has been increased slightly.



I dont know what to say more now....

[Dragoonclaws]

Arcane Staff Update

Based on further analysis of the Arcane Staff, we've made the following adjustments that will go into effect Thursday 2/25.

+ There can now be more than one Consecrate up at a time on a map--the effects do NOT stack.
+ The AOE range of Consecrate has been increased slightly.



I dont know what to say more now....

As I said... they're not ready to do big changes on the staff

[kananaskis]

Arcane Staff Update

Based on further analysis of the Arcane Staff, we've made the following adjustments that will go into effect Thursday 2/25.

+ There can now be more than one Consecrate up at a time on a map--the effects do NOT stack.
+ The AOE range of Consecrate has been increased slightly.



I dont know what to say more now....

This is a sensible, excellent adjustment. Ty.

[Kingofninjas]

Arcane Staff Update

Based on further analysis of the Arcane Staff, we've made the following adjustments that will go into effect Thursday 2/25.

+ There can now be more than one Consecrate up at a time on a map--the effects do NOT stack.
+ The AOE range of Consecrate has been increased slightly.



I dont know what to say more now....

On paper this adjustment seems pretty useless to me. The only major issue of ours addressed was the fact that only one spell could be active at once. Nothing else was addressed. I am very disappointed.

[Kriticality]

Listen Cara. I will solve this issue. The staff consecrate spell needs to stack with arcane shield and nekro then it's done. That's all we need. Easy. Simple. Not for the whole team, just the caster of consecrate. Cmon.


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[Zeus]

Listen Cara. I will solve this issue. The staff consecrate spell needs to stack with arcane shield and nekro then it's done. That's all we need. Easy. Simple. Not for the whole team, just the caster of consecrate. Cmon.


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That would be great. Although, I wouldn't mind if it stacked for the whole team.

[Kriticality]

That would be great. Although, I wouldn't mind if it stacked for the whole team.

I considered that. And for rogues it would be excellent but imagine lead tank not having to jugg until much much later. Between nekro (40%) + consecrate (65%) heal one and next heal bubble, Warriors would be smh... Who knows.


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[bonjovi3223]

Well...it was obvious from the OP that the staff was not going to get any buff & that they will look into consecrate. That is exactly what they have done lol.
I would have preferred a reduced charge time or an armor buff on the staff. Skill dmg was not going to come either way due to the way consecrate has been designed to work.

[CYC]

The normal attack proc is hardly noticeable, could you make it have some indication like what the daggers do?

[Zeus]

I considered that. And for rogues it would be excellent but imagine lead tank not having to jugg until much much later. Between nekro (40%) + consecrate (65%) heal one and next heal bubble, Warriors would be smh... Who knows.


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If it didn't apply to whole team, then 3 mage stacks would have even further of an advantage..each with their own consecrate.

[Oezheasate]

If it didn't apply to whole team, then 3 mage stacks would have even further of an advantage..each with their own consecrate.

That would still be the lesser evil, better stack mages than tanks, everyone hates games where its senseless tank and set stacking.

[will0]

Consecrate spell are useless in PVP i would say this is ok in PVE, most time mages using this staff are open to all attacks while charging ... doesn't do enough DOT even when it is cast. Warrior one axe pull drag in to infinite number of lava pools (worst than SNS pools) you are dead while charging this spell .. not even talking about 2 or more warrior stacking using arcane sword ganging in PVP.

2H Sword:
Chance on attack, Lava Spouts that spawn around the player for 10 seconds, dealing damage and applying a dot. Enrages the warrior with a boost in raw damage and every attack stuns in PvE for the duration of the buff. Players and PvE Bosses have a 20% chance to be stunned on hit instead of 100%.

[Merchadia]

Why is it so ugly? I mean ker'shal had a CRAZY design and look but then this thing...it looks like some brackenridge curioso staff and it doesn't even have anything special, no circling magic sphere, no arcane circle! I just hope for next update to bring out something crazy, I might even consider doing some designs for a new arcane staff, ill send out to STS.

#samhelpmeonthis


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[bonjovi3223]

The only problem I have with this staff is the charge time for consecrate. It feels too dangerous to use it half the times.
My armor is below 1500 & I know thats a major factor for me taking quick dmg in elite maps, but despite that, chain using consecrate leaves me rooted in a spot with less usage of other skills & attks.
I also have a qn. Does consecrate buff my own dmg because I never see that dmg buff icon like we would see while using the gun.

[Morholt]

The only problem I have with this staff is the charge time for consecrate. It feels too dangerous to use it half the times.
My armor is below 1500 & I know thats a major factor for me taking quick dmg in elite maps, but despite that, chain using consecrate leaves me rooted in a spot with less usage of other skills & attks.
I also have a qn. Does consecrate buff my own dmg because I never see that dmg buff icon like we would see while using the gun.It does. Cast it in a cleared out part of a map and then look at the 'Avatar' tab.

[epicrrr]

As I said... they're not ready to do big changes on the staff

not that "theyre ready" maybe what the mages been asking is ridiculously op.. many here are seasoned players so you all have first hand exp of how an OP weapon reacts to the gameplay, make. or. break.

[will0]

it is really OP i can kill a geared rouge 5m away with staff :-)

[Diggdugg]

Chances are sts stopped reading this tread two pages ago with they said they did something to help the staff which they really didn't, if you read all th posts they only addressed the easiest to do

[Kaziscate]

Whoa whoa whoa just a second there...I don't think the issue with the DoT proc is the proc rate. I think the issue with the DoT proc is that its damage is a bit too so try looking into that.