I have a question about fire and ice mage skills!

[Alphonso14]

Does fire skill removes or stops ice skill? Just asking before I change my skills. I'm planning on putting fire 5/5, ice 5/5, health 4/5(not including the extra 8m), and clock 5/5 skills ( and I'll use the rest of my skill points left to upgrade a shield skill for bosses only.) Yeah I'm a PVE mage type. I don't really understand anything about PVP nor planning to lol.

[HeftyWood]

Same build as I have, only thing I did was get rid of clock and add lightning 5/5

[HeftyWood]

You can have heal or shield for pve, heal also gives mana and is helpful for bosses.

[iAmBurberry]

I'm not too sure if it's just me, but i have noticed that if I have both of those skills in rotation, I tend to have larger crits shooting Fireball first then Ice. Another plus for shooting Fireball first, in rotation, is that Fireball has pretty decent ticks from it's DOT.

My PVE Mage loadout(in rotation): Fireball > Ice > Lightning > Shield

Very fast "run-n-gun" type playstyle. No Clock in loadout for me since I feel cooldown is a bit slow and where clock lands isn't very versatile. Although I still have enough AOE damage from Fireball and Lightning(% chance) to take care of mobs.

[eugene9707]

You can have heal or shield for pve, heal also gives mana and is helpful for bosses.

yes you canm but why would you ?

Unless you are still early on and can't afford to buy potions.

Also, judging from your join date, you're fairly new to the game, so here's some stuff you dont know:
- heal attracts mobs, when you heal, you end up having more mobs attacking you, ruining the point of the heal
- heal takes a while to cool down, so you have to use potions anways, so why use it?
- not using heal and use an attack skill instead = more damage done = enemies die faster= less damage taken = less potions use (as fights dont drag on as long)

Also, note from your previous comment, about lightning:
- drop the aoe lightning, it rearly happens ( unless you live in wt4) , and it's not really useful in elite.
- drop the stun, it's only a chance to stun, fireball is much more reliable
- Clock is arguably the most useful spell in pve ( aside from boss, which i'd agree to switch to lightning), so keep it

[HeftyWood]

Jeez, someone uses heal and the whole world of nerds freaks out lol. I also have shield I just don't use it because heal give me mana

[Brianv333]

I see a lot of people disregarding heal these day. When I use my mage, pve or pvp, I always have heal on. It is nice being able to boost your health and mana on command for no fees. Plus, others heavily rely on the mana aspect of things when concerning heal. Also, people hate on the shield. The shield is a necessity when dealing with elites or high damage enemies, otherwise you will constantly die... therefore making you even more useless.

[Intous]

Does fire skill removes or stops ice skill? Just asking before I change my skills. I'm planning on putting fire 5/5, ice 5/5, health 4/5(not including the extra 8m), and clock 5/5 skills ( and I'll use the rest of my skill points left to upgrade a shield skill for bosses only.) Yeah I'm a PVE mage type. I don't really understand anything about PVP nor planning to lol.

What, a PVE mage without clock? That's weird.
In tombs (wt4) you can kill massive crowds with it.
In km you can use it to lure francesca without being in it's room ( if you use explode).
This is my main build :
Fireball+ Clock+ Shield + Ice for mobs, replace clock with thunder for bosses, however everyone uses their unique skill build depending on your playing style.

[Kharjojo]

Jeez, someone uses heal and the whole world of nerds freaks out lol. I also have shield I just don't use it because heal give me mana

Yeaaaahhhh, agreed.. but no wonder if all the others players in the same map will react like this:

147455

[Schnitzel]

I have an endgame PvE smurf,
I use Fire, Ice, Lightning (boss)/Clock (mobs), Shield

Fire (least from my runs) doesn't cancel Ice's freeze effect.

Also,
the reason some of us are against using Heal in endgame PvE is because we already have HP/MP potions.
And since there's only 4 slots for skills, we'd rather have something that does damage to mobs, while keeping us alive (shield)
Heal has a CD before being used again, potions don't.

If you know how to manage your HP, and keep yourself alive,
all you need is a bunch of HP potions, shield (recommended), and some skill
you'll be able to survive.

[Caabatric]

Just know, that most pve guilds will immediately kick you if you are a mage using heal in pve ^.^ (unless basic maps and you are helping new players)

Pvp is very, very, very different

[Alphonso14]

Thank you guys for all your infos! It means a lot to me! 😃 And for those who suggests shield instead of heal I'm a go HEAL FTW!!! 😛

[Veenihiv]

Put Heal if U wanna die fast !

[Faliziaga]

I agree for 95% of the mage players not to use heal in Pve. If u want to contribute to a faster killing and map clearing use damage skills and pots.
A mage has mobs' aggro just by being a mage and using heal in the wrong moment might provoke chaos. 5% Pro Heal goes to Pve'ers who know what to do when and who are willing to elaborate a team playstyle.

[stricker20000]

yes you canm but why would you ?

Unless you are still early on and can't afford to buy potions.

Also, judging from your join date, you're fairly new to the game, so here's some stuff you dont know:
- heal attracts mobs, when you heal, you end up having more mobs attacking you, ruining the point of the heal
- heal takes a while to cool down, so you have to use potions anways, so why use it?
- not using heal and use an attack skill instead = more damage done = enemies die faster= less damage taken = less potions use (as fights dont drag on as long)

Actually heal is there to support teammates and if u attract aggro and still can survive --> team mate(s) can survive more easily... ofc you can't use it if mobs are too hard, just if u can survive without shield

And to be honest it does not make an elite run significantly faster if you use 3 or 4 damage spells if you have rogue in party.
Even lightning for elite bosses is not neccessary since you barely deal damage unless staff procs.. if you use lightning it makes it a few seconds faster but its not a MUST (those few seconds you actually lose while changing loadout at boss so...)

[kinzmet]

Its ok to use heal in normal maps, but a sorc with heal in an Elite map? Eh, that sorc wants to die.

[robetbee]

I hate when see mage use shield + heal in elite or planar.. wasting time

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[stricker20000]

Its ok to use heal in normal maps, but a sorc with heal in an Elite map? Eh, that sorc wants to die.

Thats why you don't use heal if you can't survive using it :playful:

[Fredystern]

Well i ussually play using fireball for stuns, shield og course, gale or lightning, ice, that was an awesome build, you have lots of stun and i have heal skill that i never use for pve because its suck -.- before you done ur heal you already dead in elite stun better than heal for me you still can heal fast enough using potion. If in pvp i prefer to use fireball,shield,lightning,heal i not a curse master bcz the range very suck lots of player will hold thier skill until the curse effect disappear. I would happy if they add more skill slot for my heal in pve lol ik it'll never happen :D dont take a game very seriously its about how your style to play a game not about other :) just enjoy it and you'll find out ur style in game :D

[ilhanna]

Its ok to use heal in normal maps, but a sorc with heal in an Elite map? Eh, that sorc wants to die.

It actually makes more sense not to use heal in normal map. You can kill faster by going 4 attack skills in normal map.

My mage's current build:
Full INT
5/5 Knowledge, Dexterity, Might, Critical passives
5/5 Firebolt
5/5 Clock
3/5 Ice (just the 2nd and 3rd upgrade)
4/5 Shield (no knock back)
4/5 Gale (except 1st upgrade)
4/5 Lightning (no stun)

KM/WT runs: fire, ice, clock, gale
Elite Rengol: ice, gale (a lifesaver for the parts where we run past giants), clock (another lifesaver when you're chased), shield
Planar Tombs: fire, ice (very useful against the wolves), clock, shield (lightning at boss)
Elite Wilds: fire, ice (crucial for immobilizing shamans), clock, shield/gale
Arena: fire, ice, lightning, shield

When I use fire and ice in rotation, I throw fire first to stun so it's safe for me to rush in and drop clock.

[Gorecaster]

Heal in elite maps is a skill that will negatively impact the entire party. A mage doesn't have enough armor to survive the aggro you'll experience. Tbh I'd use curse before I used heal and that's not saying much. Also not using clock on a pve specific build is just silly, there's no other skill that can control and dmg more mobs at the same time.

[stricker20000]

Heal in elite maps is a skill that will negatively impact the entire party. A mage doesn't have enough armor to survive the aggro you'll experience. Tbh I'd use curse before I used heal and that's not saying much. Also not using clock on a pve specific build is just silly, there's no other skill that can control and dmg more mobs at the same time.
It does affect entire party negatively IF the mage does die, but not every mage dies using heal... and if map is too hard for going without shield nothing keeps you from using shield instead

[Gouiwaa9000]

I've been playing as a mage nearly 3.5 years now.... And I can surely say that heal is completely useless in pve ( unless mobs use some unbelievably strong DoT that can't be healed by potions , then regrowth comes in handy ) , nearly every single players who goes to elites , has atleast 400-2k potions with him , mana and HP making mage heal pointless . Also using heal means you need to sacrifice one attack skill , less damage deal ( special from mage , that has to control mobs and not let them escape root/freeze/stun ) = mobs alive for more = higher chance of team mates dying = more potions used = more gold lost , so using heal impacts every person in your team ...for pure pve i suggest using : Shield 4/5 , fireball 5/5 , ice 4/5 , clock 5/5 and light 3/5 ( swap clock with lightning when you reach boss )

[stricker20000]

I've been playing as a mage nearly 3.5 years now.... And I can surely say that heal is completely useless in pve ( unless mobs use some unbelievably strong DoT that can't be healed by potions , then regrowth comes in handy ) , nearly every single players who goes to elites , has atleast 400-2k potions with him , mana and HP making mage heal pointless . Also using heal means you need to sacrifice one attack skill , less damage deal ( special from mage , that has to control mobs and not let them escape root/freeze/stun ) = mobs alive for more = higher chance of team mates dying = more potions used = more gold lost , so using heal impacts every person in your team ...for pure pve i suggest using : Shield 4/5 , fireball 5/5 , ice 4/5 , clock 5/5 and light 3/5 ( swap clock with lightning when you reach boss )

Well, yes mage needs to control mobs and also keep rogue alive... for full party it might make no difference but when it comes to duo and you e.g. want that rogue daggers proc a lot then get aggro, control mobs, stay alive and yes even heal can help if mage using it is not nab... if you use gun and not staff it might make more difference losing a damage skill but if u lose the dmg skill by using shield or by using heal rly doesn't make a difference as long as you stay alive...

shield doesn't help party in any way unless you can't stay alive but however..

[Kharjojo]

Better to shield and head safely into the crowd to freeze/clock/stuns than healing imho..tbh im only using shield in garetta elite lately, better go 4 active skills in other elites if ur able to stay alive.

[creeepycreeepy]

Poor guy. No one even answered his question. So i will :) if you freeze an enemy fireball wont stun it just dots if you have the upgrade and aoe dmg of course. If you fb then ice ice takes over. I hope this helps you.

[stricker20000]

Poor guy. No one even answered his question. So i will :) if you freeze an enemy fireball wont stun it just dots if you have the upgrade and aoe dmg of course. If you fb then ice ice takes over. I hope this helps you.

correct but if mobs are frozen and you use fireball and then freeze effect goes away while fireball stun time still runs that stun time will be there (if i remember right)

[creeepycreeepy]

correct but if mobs are frozen and you use fireball and then freeze effect goes away while fireball stun time still runs that stun time will be there (if i remember right)
Negative sir :) try it on an elite in solo pt :)

[Otahaanak]

It's simple math:
Heal: no damage, 15 sec cool down

Ice and light: approx 1200 (depends on Mage gear) damage with 3 sec cool down

I can deal 4,800+ damage using either skill while a Mage uses heal once.

If you run with heal you will slow the party down. I see mages using heal and shield in tomb runs as well (km3 and wt4) My suggestion would be if you have to run with both, and heal especially, that you spend a bit more time mastering the Mage class, the maps, and the mob attack patterns.






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Veenihiv]

I'm glad you've turned to the dark non healing side.

It's difficult to find mages who once used heal admitting they find using heal in a crime so heinous even Jarls betrayal sounds like a tea party!

True. The ones that oppose using heal has definitely used heal many times in PvE

[Sky_is_epicgear]

Sts really should rename "lifegiver" to "taunt". I don't want to tell you how to play but any experienced mage will tell you the same thing, not to run lifegiver in a PvE build.

Sts please finish fixing the skill mechanisms

Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk

[Iove]

hello, I play very pve, good .. I think you should use the skills that you see that is doing better and doing better times, no deaths, or almost> <, all depends on your map and who is playing with you, each playing in a different way, you can put the points only in the necessary, and changing the skills you realize which build identifies more because each has its own technique, good is so good pve: D

Enviado de meu XT1058 usando Tapatalk

[Otahaanak]

True. The ones that oppose using heal has definitely used heal many times in PvE

LOL, For the record I have never used heal except for pvp, and didn't use shield until the Nordr elites just hammered me with deaths xD






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[stricker20000]

When you use heal in an elite map and heal,sharing mob aggro with you, it is nott only because of us dealing out more damage in mobs, yes mages deal more damage in mobs when they are speced right but they also charge their skills hence aggroing mobs. Charged skills have perks like stuns and blinds which attract mob aggro.
yea u have fire ice and clock anyways no matter if heal or shield lol


Most of the times when you do charge heal you will tend to run with shield and two attack skills. Nott having ice or fire will mean less crowd control, mobs have 20-30 mean nott even perfectly distributed stuns and freezes are disabling all mobs(6 mob rule) and nott having snare and DoT from clock significantly slows down runs. Slow runs means more red zones, means more chances of one hits.

Never talked about uing heal and shield same time


All that being said I'm glad there has finally been a thread about mage heal in PvE in GD, tired of repeating myself in sorcerer class discussion. I was expecting one after the new Arcane staff release, another reason for heal mages to heal.

well..ok, rage moar pls:devilish:


Lightning when targeted on a target which is under the effects of a mob under the debuffs from AS can be devastating.
5% heal mages, shouldn't be fazed when rogues leave their parties to go run with their rogue friends, after all they are saving pots for their friends!

I can feel the forums legendary retired mages turning in their grave each time someone says "lightning doesn't make much of a difference".

If you mean Arcane Staff saying AS... it doesn't even debuff and ofc lightning gives you some extra damage. however i wasn't even talking about skill loadout without heal or arcane shield and I am talking about team play and not full party with 4 ppl playing solo.
And proccing staff being an important thing for damage now is a fact, I didn't invent that ( I do not mean desecrate). Anyways there are more than one different playstyles and important thing is that the run works fine, so generalizing something and saying heal=noob can be wrong. In many cases it is probably right but just accept that there are others too:cheerful:

And btw doing elite rengol or wilds is not more comfortable for "rogue only" team. just as a side note

Edit: maybe you meant aimed shot armor debuff but anyways rest stays the same and new dagger proc debuff makes it way faster so its still about playstyle

[stricker20000]

LOL, For the record I have never used heal except for pvp, and didn't use shield until the Nordr elites just hammered me with deaths xD






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

And record is something else..you need to fight for every single second there. Normal comfortable elite runs for longer farming is another thing.

[Gorecaster]

Since when are sorcs concerned w taunting? Lowest hp and armor of all the classes, last thing I want is aggro. The best pros don't even use shield. Learn when to pot, it should be an integral part of your skill rotation. Anticipate when the dmg is coming. This isn't pvp. Learn to counter incoming dmg w pots, don't rely on charging a skill to survive. It will make you a better player.

[kinzmet]

this!
I'm glad you've turned to the dark non healing side.

It's difficult to find mages who once used heal admitting they find using heal in a crime so heinous even Jarls betrayal sounds like a tea party!


Warmonicaaaaaa come I save ur pots in normal maps!

What I mean is, I can tolerate and nott nag on a heal-mage in a normal map. But nott in elite :p

[Caabatric]

4/5 ice allows you to freeze mobs with charrged ice at 20% chance when there are less then 3 mobs, else you can only chain freeze with 3+ mobs...

The heal is better for teamplay is not at all true.
When you are talking about *sharing the aggro* one commonly forgets: Rogues dodge 40-60% of incoming attacks, including most redzones, a good warrior can live elite rengol mobs pretty much forever without pots, and a 5.4k mage with 1.4k armor will get 2 shot in elite rengol no shield. Clearly, the other classes can do without your heal.

Healing your rogues/tanks mana is worthless because: You will often find a rogue will immediately fill up on mana when below 50% mana,(same with wars) and almost every elite player uses pots to keep 100% health at all times, making your heal often times be a waste.

I tried a solo runs to do a comparison:

solo run in elite wilds I went with blinky, went 4 attack skills and got a 7 minute time (no deaths)
solo run in elite wilds I went with blinky, went with 3 attack skills and shield and got 10 minute time (no deaths)
solo run in elite wilds, I went with blinky, went with 3 attack skills and heal and got a 12 minute time (1 death, happened when I was charging heal when mobs weren't under clock)

I will admit I am most used to 4 attack skills in all elites

[Veenihiv]

Lol.. This thread was started to know whether ice and fire skill cancel itself.....
Now it has become a Debate on Heal skill :P

[stricker20000]

Since when are sorcs concerned w taunting? Lowest hp and armor of all the classes, last thing I want is aggro. The best pros don't even use shield. Learn when to pot, it should be an integral part of your skill rotation. Anticipate when the dmg is coming. This isn't pvp. Learn to counter incoming dmg w pots, don't rely on charging a skill to survive. It will make you a better player.

If elite is hard and you try to duo or solo with mage you can't be that pro so you cna play without shield...it's about team, map and playstyle with team

[stricker20000]

4/5 ice allows you to freeze mobs with charrged ice at 20% chance when there are less then 3 mobs, else you can only chain freeze with 3+ mobs...

The heal is better for teamplay is not at all true.
When you are talking about *sharing the aggro* one commonly forgets: Rogues dodge 40-60% of incoming attacks, including most redzones, a good warrior can live elite rengol mobs pretty much forever without pots, and a 5.4k mage with 1.4k armor will get 2 shot in elite rengol no shield. Clearly, the other classes can do without your heal.

Healing your rogues/tanks mana is worthless because: You will often find a rogue will immediately fill up on mana when below 50% mana,(same with wars) and almost every elite player uses pots to keep 100% health at all times, making your heal often times be a waste.

I tried a solo runs to do a comparison:

solo run in elite wilds I went with blinky, went 4 attack skills and got a 7 minute time (no deaths)
solo run in elite wilds I went with blinky, went with 3 attack skills and shield and got 10 minute time (no deaths)
solo run in elite wilds, I went with blinky, went with 3 attack skills and heal and got a 12 minute time (1 death, happened when I was charging heal when mobs weren't under clock)

I will admit I am most used to 4 attack skills in all elites

It depends on the way you play together with your team, ofc you are faster with more attack skills solo (idk how you can be 3mins slower.. but however)

[stricker20000]

I have bolded the part in your post, that no matter how I read it makes nott an iota of sense to me.

well tbh mages using heal in PvE make no sense to me.

It does make sense.. it is a huge difference if you play 1-3 runs with different people all the time or if you stick to same team for a longer time. By saying 4 people in one team with each one playing solo I mean they are playing for themselves.


There maybe "different play styles" but the correct play styles dictate mages be using a 4 offence skill. The class with the highest AoE damage, a class which is only needed one in a group, two incase one is nabby or/and laggy, a class which is required to stun, snare and ice is better off using a skill which doesn't require charging, like lightning.

Who are you to define the "correct play style"? Most mages are so nab it doesn't matter which skills they use...anyways controling the mobs and not making it chaotic is more important than dealing some more damage... Yes there are more different TEAM-Playstyles which go better with other skill build but just don't mind you won't understand anyways LOL


I've posted this before nott long ago and I shall retype again, for your benefit, even charging shield or heal causes an off balance in the cyclic ice, fire, clock ritual that mages go through in mobs. When mobs are off high density charging a skill even if it's lightning can offset the timing which results in party decimation. How many times does a mage with heal survive when party dies? None. How many times does a mage with shield survive when party gets wiped out? Always.

Hmm, theory.. how comes mage healing can control crowd better than mage nott healing? Still it is about team-playstyles and team set up so just don't criticize what you can't understand... I am not saying random mages should play with heal



Just to be clear, I'll try explaining it in a hypothetical situation,let's say there are two mages in Elite rengol, and one mage(let this mage be pro mage) stuns a group of mobs, the group of mobs being Orc engineers. Funny thing about Orc engineers, they need to be constantly stunned since ice has n effect on them, and clock snare just protects you from their auto attack(which is the thing that will one hit without a crit even more<I tried to poemitise for you, ik lil ragebisl likes poems). Now when Orc engineers are stunned they stay like that for 2 seconds, well 2 seconds ish depending on the mobs around them). When you go ahead to charge ice, clock and then heal, it leaves a window open the Orc engineers to throw mobs AND hit you with an auto attack. Now we have the second mage(let's call him nott-a-pro), nott-a-pro notices pro-mage isn't able to stun the Orc engineers in time, the 6-8 second stun immunity rule withstanding the Orc engineers get more time to dish out their devastating spells. Including bombs and auto attacks. A trio of auto attacks will always, ALWAYS kill a mage. Unless that mage has the stats of a warrior.(2 second invulnerability from shield is an exception).

Nott-a-pro tries to keep the mobs stunned but notices he isn't able to land a stun because pro-mage stuns the engineers and Nott-a-pro has to spend 7+2-3 seconds wondering where the next bomb is going to dropand even more time evading the charged auto attacks from a set of mobs.

Well first of all...if u mean the normal mobs with axe by saying engineer, yes ofc you stun them and if you are pro enough you can heal without getting in trouble :o and playing with 2 other mages "team"playstyle won't benefit from heal anyways so why use it. Dex mobs (which I think of when you say engineer) you can not stun, no matter how hard you try. (unless pendant proced or rogue stuns with arcane daggers.)

There is no doubt that you need to stun mobs constantly anyways.

If anyone should ever identify something in there as poemic then he must say it's the worst poem he has ever read.



One shouldnt start a sentence with an "and", especially when phrasing something that is out if context.

AND I am not trying to write a grammatically correct scientific statement for you.


When he says "for the record" he means, this is something he wants to be noted by OP and you, even though this may be a little bit out of context it is moar helpful than anything stated by you.

For the record was a bit out of context and funny how people think they are OP Lel.


OP shouldn't use heal in PvE unless he is one hitting mobs with uncharged skills. even then he's better off using some other skill to save time. Ice and fire do stack,and the one with the longer impairment stays active. Also the stun/freeze affect doesn't get cancelled out by the other, but having a fourth skill which needs charging will cause more trouble in harder elites.

You just can't generalize that. I'll say the word again: Team-playstyles.... meh people won't understand that anyways

[eugene9707]

Actually heal is there to support teammates and if u attract aggro and still can survive --> team mate(s) can survive more easily... ofc you can't use it if mobs are too hard, just if u can survive without shield

And to be honest it does not make an elite run significantly faster if you use 3 or 4 damage spells if you have rogue in party.
Even lightning for elite bosses is not neccessary since you barely deal damage unless staff procs.. if you use lightning it makes it a few seconds faster but its not a MUST (those few seconds you actually lose while changing loadout at boss so...)

I personally dont find heal to be much more beneficial in a team. Usually argo is a tank's job( reason why they have actual taunt skill and massive armor and hp), and i'm not convinced how me having argo (while having the least survivability in the team) will benefit the team.
IMO, to support teammate is to help reduce the damage the tank receive by stunning and killing the mobs, rather than sharing the argo and be miserable at it.

As for lightning, MAYBE it's useless at boss, but it's more useful then clock (what i replace with lightning) in most cases. As it inflict more damage, and does not involve me having to get near the boss with the risk of dying.

Note: i use Fire, ice, Wind, and Clock (Lightning for boss)

[Seoratrek]

Please remember to be civil when debating. At this point everyone has made their point so I'm closing this up.