Concerned of rogues becoming op after level expansion

[Xinghvn]

I'm just worried that rogues will become very op after the level expansion that is coming up (lv56 cap), for a number of reasons:

Firstly, if sts keeps increase the level cap, rogue's crit and dodge rate will increase too. In the lv46 cap, the crit and dodge rate for an average rogue is around 30-40% (Pros would be around 50-60% crit and dodge rate), if level caps keeps expanding, then the rate of crit and dodge for rogues will be nearly 100% (or just a much higher chance). If that happens, rogues will do massive damage to other classes especially with their CRITICAL aim shot. Also warriors and mages will have less hit chances of doing damage to rogues as their dodge rate increases.

Also note that since the lv46 cap, the damage reduction of a rogue is nearly as strong as a tank, most rogues can reach over 2k or a bit less armour value. From what I have seen, only a few very pro tanks have an armour of 3k plus, most tanks have an armour value of 2k-2.7k.

Secondly, even though warriors and mages's stats will also increase during the level cap expansion but its likely that they can not resist the number of critical aimed shots by rogues. The juggernaut and arcane shield might help resist it, but what happens when it cool downs..........(especially juggernaut, cools down really slow).

Thirdly, rogues will able to recover mana once sts releases the mastery skills as it mentions in the heal packs mastery. Mana drain is one of the critical component of defeating a rogue in a 1 vs 1 match (sometimes clashes too). Heal pack is already powerful as it heals massively with just one pack. If rogues is able to heal mana, then it means that they can consistly use their aimed shot and healing packs which then seems that they can never be taken down. Tanks have to use veng, jugg and heal in order to resist the massive damage dealt by rogues and with just one attack skill, which makes a tank a less efficient killer in a 1 vs 1. This shouldn't happen as each class should be balanced (in power) between each other. (sorry i didnt mention about 1 vs 1 with mages and rogues, i dont have a mage character so I'm not 100% sure).

So to conclude, there has to be a deadline for the level cap in Arcane Legends, because imagine a rogue with >70% crit and dodge rate with >1k damage and >2k armour, it will be a MASSIVE KILLER. So please sts, take this in consideration.

Thanks, Xinghvn

[Titanium]

Are days like these when I like twinks the most. At least, they are blocked in PvP and know how to define PvP. When endgamers are confused about what PvP is.


2 tanks v 2 rogues / tanks win.
2 mages v 2 rogues / mages win.

Rogue is recognized by her/his own individuality . Besides that, first mistake you are going to observe in a clash, is a rogue rushing and dying of her/his own stupidity by doing so. Rogue is the hardest class for this exact reason. You need a lot of time spent in PvP to be good. You need to be extremly sneaky to be a badass rogue nowadays. After 3 years playing this game, i figured how I can be a better rogue than I used to be.

[Promagespvp]

Wtf.. Rogues r becoming useless..

[ClumsyCactus]

I don't know how it will be, but what you describe is indeed the problem with rogues having stats that are percentages, I would imagine that it is already possible to reach 100% crit with the correct buffs, and that is a quite insane stat to have.

[bonjovi3223]

The OP has a point here whereby the crit of a rogue keeps going up where as that of mage/warrior is limited to that given by their gear values.
What sts should do is release 'high crit' gears for mage/warrior and 'no or very small crit' gears for rogues.

[Ansari Faisal]

Wow thats good I have a rouge


Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[Legatus]

Rogue or Rouge ?

[Zeus]

Lol...I don't even need mana to kill tanks. It's going to be harder to kill a tank now due to 5 second faster jugg CD. Rogues will have to be impeccable in their timing and pray that they are not stunned during the gap when a tank is off their jugg.

[debitmandiri]

with helm + body glintstone armor + arc dagger .. I have only 41% crit... loss dagger then only 37% ( 750+ Dex, nekro pet, 0 eyegem) next client crit passive will be nerfed by 2% .. then 35% where is 60-70% mark ? Lol :wink: .
at pvp dodge is useless everybody spam skills not auto :wink:

[Fredystern]

How about make rogue max critical and dodge on pvp about 50-75% so its not very OP at all and did not max thier critical on pve, its will be usefull when solo a boss. For example *dunno who* hve critical 99% on his/her rogue when he/she enter pbp the critical will scaled to 75% to avoid OP in pvp, in other mode PvE his/hee critical will still 99% well i just give my opinion dont mad on me >.<

[Fredystern]

with helm + body glintstone armor + arc dagger .. I have only 41% crit... loss dagger then only 37% ( 750+ Dex, nekro pet, 0 eyegem) next client crit passive will be nerfed by 2% .. then 35% where is 60-70% mark ? Lol :wink: .
at pvp dodge is useless everybody spam skills not auto :wink:

You need eye gem maybe :'v my guildmate hve critical about 48% (forget how many) no eye gem, you just need better equipment or jewels :'v btw no arc ring?? Seriously? 56 lvl cap is near :'v arc ring will be useless later :'v

Too many :'v emot? :'v im sorry about that :'v

[Redjellydonut]

I just started endgame pvp a couple days ago and its unfortunately true -.- rogues are op... Even in clash. Rogues up here are nothing like twink lvl where they are actually balanced. Rogues can literally travel across the map and one shot you easy if you are a mage recovering you shield from last battle or two shot you if your a tank. 15k crit damage!? Whats next 30k?

[Morholt]

Critical and dodge are stats that should have diminishing returns once past 35%.
From 35-50%, you gain an actual .5%. 50-75%, .25% gained. 75-93%, .125% gained. 93%+, .05% gained.

So:
35% crit on screen = 35% actual crit chance
36% crit on screen = 35.5% actual crit chance
40% = 37.5%
50% = 42.5%
51% = 42.75%
52% = 43%
60% = 45%
70% = 47.5%
75% = 48.75%
76% = 48.875%
77% = 49%
85% = 50%
90% = 50.625%
93% = 51%
94% = 51.05%
95% = 51.1%
100% = 51.15%
110% = 51.65%
130% = 52.65%
150% = 53.65%
200% = 56.15%
217% = 57%
500% = 71.15%
750% = 83.65
1,000% = 96.15%
1,077% = 100%

Would work out nicely. If I'm not mistaken, our armor value already has diminishing returns. Most games implement diminishing returns for several aspects.

[Tatman]

I don't usually walk around towns checking other people's stats, but I don't think I've recently seen a rogue with over 60% crit. Maybe there are a few, but even they will most likely get under that number when crit passive gets nerfed with new client. Using the most extreme cases isn't indicative of the game population as a whole. It's just as easy for me to point to a few tanks or mages with ridiculous stats and say "wow nerf them, they so op, imagine tank with 12k health at lvl 56".

[Gorecaster]

To clarify he said the average is 30 to 40 with pros reaching upward of 50 and 60. He is correct. To speculate that rogues main stat, dex (crit and dodge) will somehow go down after the expansion is just ridiculous. So warriors str and sorcs int will do the same? No.
It's always how everything applies in pvp. If everyone here bases everything on pvp then we all should all be able to agree that rogue was, is and will always be the top class. Based in part to the fact that as you can see, it's mostly rogues that influence the game via forums. I'm guessing this guy that posted is a warrior. Mages don't speak up because there's not many pro mages playing anymore. They all made rogues.

[Tatman]

Yes he says average is 30-40 and then goes on a rant about rogues with 60 and 70. Gg

[Gorecaster]

We're going up 10 levels here with the definite possibility of new arcane and mythic items to follow. That's substantial and I see what his point is but you see it as a rant. There's been a ceiling on crit and dmg passive since day one. Now the solution is to nerf the passive which will affect everyone across the board. With tanks and mages gearing str and int respectively, rogues will be the only ones adding true crit. And depending on gear selection(dex based gear) I don't think 70 is out of the question. I have to sacrifice too much hp and dmg for a crit build. I've tried it and it's decent for pvp but there's much more to this game than these 2 pvp rooms.

[Tatman]

It is a rant, because it presents us with a biased and extremely skewed picture of the game situation at the moment. To get to 60% crit you need a huge numbet of eyes. Right now I need to add 12 or 13 more eyes in order to up my crit to that number. With new client I will need 2 more. Are you aware that means pretty much a full eye setup?

As for everyone making rogues. This just isn't true in regards to pvp. On the contrary, many of my rogue friends now pvp exclusively as tanks or mages. You can even see it in the forum. I remember my surprise the first time I saw Kingofninjas say here 'we mages'. :)

So please.

[ryuba]

Are AL game all about pvp?
There is many ppl enjoyed pve more than pvp, with this dramas STS will hard enough to make rogue like was they must, damager in map and nerf in pvp room,
Do u have feel enter elite map when wars do more in map than u as rogue,
They stunt with that sword, attack almost same with us,
We feel useless and nerf.
Then we need more nerf?

[ forgiveness ]

[Remiem]

Great feedback, all. Thank you! Balance is something we look at and reassess every expansion, to make sure that everything is still sustainable for the long run. The same will happen for this expansion as well. :)

[Gorecaster]

It is a rant, because it presents us with a biased and extremely skewed picture of the game situation at the moment. To get to 60% crit you need a huge numbet of eyes. Right now I need to add 12 or 13 more eyes in order to up my crit to that number. With new client I will need 2 more. Are you aware that means pretty much a full eye setup?

As for everyone making rogues. This just isn't true in regards to pvp. On the contrary, many of my rogue friends now pvp exclusively as tanks or mages. You can even see it in the forum. I remember my surprise the first time I saw Kingofninjas say here 'we mages'. :)

So please.

This is a great example of a skewed picture of the game at the moment. Isn't it more just your experience? My experience isn't the same as yours. But in essence this is what the forums are good for. Look Tat, we're arguing. I consider you a friend but this is what we're left with. Different perspectives of the same game, constant speculation and imbalance. Everyones experience will be different but these factors never change.

[Khalleesie]

Can I just say.. I do not have these concerns :congratulatory:

[Tatman]

Which exactly is the skewed picture? I speak with numbers. Numbers say it's completely out of the question for 99% of the rogues to get anywhere near 60% crit at the moment, unless they use some crappy tactics gear. If you or the OP dispute this, go make a rogue with top gear (it's pretty much the same for all maxed rogues right now with slight variations), reach 60% crit with Nekro, and come show me.

As for pvp, ask around about the current situation. Or better yet - make an all-rogue team, go play vs tanks and mages, and come tell me the results. :)

And of course, the fact that we are arguing, doesn't mean we are no longer friends lol.

[bonjovi3223]

Great feedback, all. Thank you! Balance is something we look at and reassess every expansion, to make sure that everything is still sustainable for the long run. The same will happen for this expansion as well. :)
and hence we are nerfing rogues.
Remi, you left out that last sentence.
Jk.

[Kingofninjas]

It is a rant, because it presents us with a biased and extremely skewed picture of the game situation at the moment. To get to 60% crit you need a huge numbet of eyes. Right now I need to add 12 or 13 more eyes in order to up my crit to that number. With new client I will need 2 more. Are you aware that means pretty much a full eye setup?

As for everyone making rogues. This just isn't true in regards to pvp. On the contrary, many of my rogue friends now pvp exclusively as tanks or mages. You can even see it in the forum. I remember my surprise the first time I saw Kingofninjas say here 'we mages'. :)

So please.

It's true I mainly play mage now. My devices has gotten to slow to play rogue effectively, and the screen is too small to track everything going on, so mage is a better choice for me. I do play rogue occasionally when a rogue friend wants to play mage and we switch gear.

However, rogues are still OP in tdm. Even after not playing rogue for 3 months, I found it very easy to run corner to corner one hitting mages and rogues. The OP has a point. When I stacked 2 Aimed shots, which is usually the case when I PvP, my crit was 75%. Throw in a planar pendant proc, and it basically hits 100%. I would love an arcane pet that brings enemy crit down to 35-45% for like 10 seconds on its AA.

[Oezheasate]

To clarify he said the average is 30 to 40 with pros reaching upward of 50 and 60. He is correct. To speculate that rogues main stat, dex (crit and dodge) will somehow go down after the expansion is just ridiculous. So warriors str and sorcs int will do the same? No.
It's always how everything applies in pvp. If everyone here bases everything on pvp then we all should all be able to agree that rogue was, is and will always be the top class. Based in part to the fact that as you can see, it's mostly rogues that influence the game via forums. I'm guessing this guy that posted is a warrior. Mages don't speak up because there's not many pro mages playing anymore. They all made rogues.

I'd take two mages one rogue over two rogues one Mage anyday, if a rogue isn't rlly skilled she'll get you farmed in endgame clashes due to tank sets, mages can counter it by shielding when pulled, rogues get eaten alive.
So mages are more useful in pvp than rogues are atm.

[Oezheasate]

Are AL game all about pvp?
There is many ppl enjoyed pve more than pvp, with this dramas STS will hard enough to make rogue like was they must, damager in map and nerf in pvp room,
Do u have feel enter elite map when wars do more in map than u as rogue,
They stunt with that sword, attack almost same with us,
We feel useless and nerf.
Then we need more nerf?

[ forgiveness ]

Either ur useless on rogue or u are useless on rogue, tanks doing more damage than you as a rogue and you blame it on arcane sword? Learn your class before you come up with gibberish like that, rogues definitely rule pve.

[Hail]

Would reducing the amount of crit each dex point adds out of the picture?

[ryuba]

I just say that for people who say nerf, nerf and nerf. I do learn it in last 2 years, this is not about how useless rogue or other class are, but this is about dramas that they make for each class they play.
All class good already u just need spend ur gold for gear and jewel.
And dont forget all class have their each jobs.
I just blame this post hard that what all i mean.
They cry for nerf :)

[ forgiveness ]

[Gouiwaa9000]

Wait wait wait . Why nerf rogs ?( I am a mage for 3 years BTW ) Yes they will give a high crit after the expansion . There is not need to reduce their stas . But buffing other classes would be much better. Let the high crit for rogs play on your hand . why not add a 20% damage reflection on mage shield , and a 5% crit debuff ( stacks ) on warrior juggernaut ? Each tick will reduce crit of one nearby enemy by 5% and with mage shield reflecting damage , problem will be solved in no time .( considering the high HP of tanks and the upcoming 1.5% extra reduction from shield ( per point ) , surviving won't be a huge problem )

[Fredystern]

Wait wait wait . Why nerf rogs ?( I am a mage for 3 years BTW ) Yes they will give a high crit after the expansion . There is not need to reduce their stas . But buffing other classes would be much better. Let the high crit for rogs play on your hand . why not add a 20% damage reflection on mage shield , and a 5% crit debuff ( stacks ) on warrior juggernaut ? Each tick will reduce crit of one nearby enemy by 5% and with mage shield reflecting damage , problem will be solved in no time .( considering the high HP of tanks and the upcoming 1.5% extra reduction from shield ( per point ) , surviving won't be a huge problem )

Agreed, i would nice to see damage reflect to a rogue when critical :') but its only last long 4second 2second when shield just active with ignore all damage so first second the damage wont relected after its gona reflect play for 2second at least a rogue or warrior took half damage on it :) nice opinion hihi i like it and agree to 5% reduce damage every tick

[Errorrz]

Go make rog and no more mage and warrior at 56 an d no more report about rogue is OP .

Sent from my ASUS_T00I using Tapatalk

[xRyuzanki]

Nooo don't nerf rogue
Rogues are not OP . the reason why they have so high damage is because they're the " damager" right? And besides rogues are easy to kill unless ur a pro or u have a good set of items. in PvP , their damage is alrdy reduced/nerf . and since we're moving in new cap .. Warriors Armor and health will surely increase a lot (since jugg is scaled on lvl but also not ony that ) but ofc also mages and rogues . so why nerf rogues ??.

[Gouiwaa9000]

It took me 6 months to develop a fully working strategy to kill rogs. The gear of rogs does not make a big difference in the case with mages , you have 6-10s to kill a rogue before you die . if it's all timed right , you should be able to stun the rog and gain extra seconds . mages need shield to survive . once it's down gg , one combo or crit aimed is enough . Even nekro shield is not strong enough to resist . also it's almost impossible to win if rog sneak attacks . sp + aimed combo deals insane amount of damage to a mage that was not shielded. In that case you will be sitting with 20-30% HP or will be with a wasted heal ( if you use it ) so basicly your time is reduced to 3-4s ( shield invincibility + you will be able to survive for some time )