[Feedback] Rogue Armor

[Zynzyn]

Always believed that sts has the community's best interest in mind. Not this time. The new armor nerf for rogues for ALL levels was not required for class balance and this is coming from somebody who has been playing on all 3 classes. At endgame, we have the buffed arcane sword and new jugg buffs which are more than enough to make warrior op. The rogue nerf on armor was not required. If anything, mages' armor could have been buffed instead of the nerf on rogues.

At twink pvp brackets, before the nerf even, rogues were already getting swapped out by the team for mages and warriors. The warrior's Galen Maul which reduces armor (by a glitch that has remained unfixed due to sts neglect) and also tosses out multiple proc patches (mage and rogue weapons toss out only 1 proc patch at a time) already put warriors at an advantage. Toor AA reduces armor too already.

Before the nerf, all the classes could kill each other with equal odds. The situation was close to being balanced. The new armor nerf on rogues may have been implemented to make rogues and mages at the same level but it just worsens rogues. Rogues have no stun immunity shield, no stun skills like fireball.

Over time, mages and warriors have had their damage increasing Lets not forget the wonderful buff-debuff system which cancels out pet's bonus dmg for rogues (due to 10% dmg nerf) in pvp and the damage gap it creates between rogues and mages/warriors. In clashes now, more than ever, rogues are the most unwanted of the lot because the other classes already are dealing enough damage and surviving while at it.

I cant doubt that sts is also aware of the consequences of this new nerf on twink players. Maybe the idea is to get twinks to endgame. The option to disable xp could have been removed to put an end to twinking, if desired. Why even have that option if the idea is to force twinks to go endgame by making changes that affects gameplay negatively?

Damage nerf. Crit nerf. Armor nerf. With all this, no pet dmg% boost in pvp. No stun immunity shield against the other classes which have increasing damage and buffs. The reason is "rogues have become tankier", but mages and tanks are dealing more and more damage too. I believe this decision was made with the expectation that godly maxed rogues will include other classes in their party for their PVE runs. For one aspect of the game, another has been sacrificed. This is not balance.

[Legallyblonde]

I honestly wouldn't have mind a armor nerf as long as we got a damage buff. Because the universal crit nerf hurt all of us.

[Hulkystash]

Rogues weren't suppose to have that much armor. You are just used to it being so high (for a rogue)

[Zylx]

The armor nerf was not needed. I was already getting 1-shotted before the nerf as it was. What's the point of being a rogue now since everything is dumbed down.

[Midas Touch]

Tried soloing the arena with my rogue just now and due to the armor nerf on rogues i was farming deaths lol

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[typemyname]

Time to leave rogues and move to warrior and mage class hahahahaha

[Gouiwaa9000]

Let's not forget that roges are the only class that can crit 8k damage in PvP >.<

[Zeus]

Let's not forget that roges are the only class that can crit 8k damage in PvP >.<

Sorcerers can also crit up to 7K if armor reductions are in play. 8K is when armor reductions are in play as well. :)


If the idea is to make rogues glass cannons, then please give us back our damage. Developers keep giving this class nerf after nerf while other classes get buff after buff. We are all patiently waiting for developers to say something that will help relieve our anxiety! :p

Heck, some rogues even participated and supported other class buffs...myself included. Things were balanced before...now, they simply are not. So many people are complaining, STG, so this can't have been the right decision.

[falmear]

About time.

[Nabhunter]

Sorcerers can also crit up to 7K if armor reductions are in play. 8K is when armor reductions are in play as well. :)


If the idea is to make rogues glass cannons, then please give us back our damage. Developers keep giving this class nerf after nerf while other classes get buff after buff. We are all patiently waiting for developers to say something that will help relieve our anxiety! :p

Heck, some rogues even participated and supported other class buffs...myself included. Things were balanced before...now, they simply are not. So many people are complaining, STG, so this can't have been the right decision.

I totally agree with this.. Classes were pretty good balanced before armor nerf. Why did you sts nerfe rogue's armor? In most rpg games warrior style character is strongest then comes ROGUE and then mage. now rogue and mage has same armor but mage has shield skill so it makes mage better..

[extrapayah]

they should design weapons, gears, map difficulty, and system that gives a non-dps class in pve to have enough damage output to not slowing party runs,
and then reduce the damage equally to all classes in pvp, to make fights between players last long enough

reducing (only) rogues' armor is definitely not a wise idea...

[Zynzyn]

First damage, now armor... I bet next season our crit will be also nerfed! Let's see the true, game is now more unbalanced then before. Time to swap for mage or warrior?


Not next season. This latest update has already nerfed rogue crit while buffing warriors jugg. The problem is that somebody went ahead and decided that rogue armor too needs a nerf and that too for ALL levels. Thats going overboard with nerfs.

[Meenmoon]

Give back my armor pls..

[Meenmoon]

Remiem!. U should play rog twink low lvl..,

[Meenmoon]

Please give back armor and crit. This is not balance.

[Donquixoth]

Better remove rogue armor debuff (Aimed shot skill) and make the others normal. Rogue hit very hard because of this actually.

[Hail]

All this new stuff being changed is just a massive facepalm.

-Rogues nerfed
-Warriors buffed
-Sns 1k tokens
-Fat Dova

[Earlingstad]

All this new stuff being changed is just a massive facepalm.

-Rogues nerfed
-Warriors buffed
-Sns 1k tokens
-Fat Dova

The rogue armor nerf was so insane, I almost double-checked the calender to see if it is 1st of April already.

[Ulfric]

People complaining about how rogues don't have any shield, well they have insane crits. If you're dying easy on pvp then blame your team play not your character. The way we should determine if a character is overpowered is when we play duel. each class have their own weak point and their advantage. and the key to wining should be how well you understand your opponent and how well you time your skill, and needless to mention the gears comparatively. rogues have been playing for long with the upper hand so i know you feel scared to face this fair challenge but don't be, just learn to tackle your opponent with skill not with advantage. but now that there will be skill mastery no one can cry to sts about being the op class anymore since its about building your character yourself to gain the upper hand ;) gg sts. For example in dota 2, it totally depends on the items we build. If we go for pure dps we lack in damage, mana, magic resistance, armor, escape and so on. or if we go for pure damage build as powerful as we might be from range we will be a squishy one when we encounter close combat :)
so no more crying let your skill decide if you win or not.

[Hail]

People complaining about how rogues don't have any shield, well they have insane crits. If you're dying easy on pvp then blame your team play not your character. The way we should determine if a character is overpowered is when we play duel. each class have their own weak point and their advantage. and the key to wining should be how well you understand your opponent and how well you time your skill, and needless to mention the gears comparatively. rogues have been playing for long with the upper hand so i know you feel scared to face this fair challenge but don't be, just learn to tackle your opponent with skill not with advantage. but now that there will be skill mastery no one can cry to sts about being the op class anymore since its about building your character yourself to gain the upper hand ;) gg sts. For example in dota 2, it totally depends on the items we build. If we go for pure dps we lack in damage, mana, magic resistance, armor, escape and so on. or if we go for pure damage build as powerful as we might be from range we will be a squishy one when we encounter close combat :)
so no more crying let your skill decide if you win or not.

What use is any crit when the new arcane's AA cancels it out?

[Bameely]

Horrible un-wise move by sts. So now what? - War has the highest HP, Highest Armor, and these days too easy to see Warriors' having very high damage/dps. Not forgetting skills increasing their armor/hp/damage.

Did you say Balance?

[Ulfric]

Hail well the question is... whats the point of buying the new arcane pet if it didn't cancel crit? well i didn't know it does that. since the release of nekro mages have been playing with a huge disadvantage. But whats the point of buying Nekro instead of singe if it does not give stun imunity? well that makes the price of the pet worth it... keeping in mind.. at the cost of sorcerers disadvantage. wariors axethrow and chest spilter unable rogues to score crit too... its just a matter of timing skills at the right time. if you depend on your gears to win a combat this game will always remain imbalanced.

[Ydqm]

It's time to move to tank now. Reasons why:
1. Jugg is now op.
2. Arcane sword is op.
3. Axe still mastery is op.
4. Max tanks are nearly unkillable.

[Ulfric]

i do agree that warriors have too much damage output. but we need to understand the fact that warriors need to have lots of hp and armor, that's the point of being a tank. warriors don't need that much damage to kill a rogue or mage as i have been playing as a tank since i played this game.
But i believe sts buffed them well cuz dps class have been kicking out tanks from maps. we all know we need just one tank to run an elite map while dps class can fit in everywhere so its really hard for the tanks to find a party to run with. or people mostly prefer to run full dps. this is what i would call imbalance.
well its a wrong move to buff warriors with damage as it is not their role to deal damage. but nerfing rogues armor so its impossible to run elites without tank is a freakin good move. i believe this will finally back the good old days where tanks are invited to party to tank.

Tanks be like: "u used to call me for the hard runs, lately when the maps are hard" lol but now its dps generation f the tanks !!! :D:applause:

[Ulfric]

It's time to move to tank now. Reasons why:
1. Jugg is now op.
2. Arcane sword is op.
3. Axe still mastery is op.
4. Max tanks are nearly unkillable.

Feel free to move to tanks :D please. tanks welcome u with those boring runs where u need 1 hour to kill a boss. no party invite for planar tombs since we dps prefer no tank run :)

[leslietheone]

why does twinks rogue have to be punished cuz of the unbalanced pvp in endgame...we had some sort of balanced pvp in low lvl since mage and warr web were OP in gw
we rogue still use the old bows...warrior got new weapon that actually is useful compare to rogues new bow twink witch is terrible, we didn't complain about that....but nerf our armor?
we will basically get lose 50-70% from ppl 2 lv above us...

[Ulfric]

yes i agree with you on this one :) may the devs heard your plea soon. twinks have relatively lower crit compared to endgame rogues. and a rogue without crit is a dead rogue haha. good luck

[Jakubson]

-400 armor and +25dmg at the end of the season?

Good job sts!!

Many will quit after this "wise" update....

[plaviskz]

Lol in twink lvls rogue>mage all the time in vs. Mage shield pops u die.

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[Jazzi]

Hail well the question is... whats the point of buying the new arcane pet if it didn't cancel crit? well i didn't know it does that. since the release of nekro mages have been playing with a huge disadvantage. But whats the point of buying Nekro instead of singe if it does not give stun imunity? well that makes the price of the pet worth it... keeping in mind.. at the cost of sorcerers disadvantage. wariors axethrow and chest spilter unable rogues to score crit too... its just a matter of timing skills at the right time. if you depend on your gears to win a combat this game will always remain imbalanced.

a paragon of logical thinking!

[Hail]

Lol in twink lvls rogue>mage all the time in vs. Mage shield pops u die.

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I beg to differ. I know a mage at 10 killing tanks and rogues in 1v1 constantly lol.

[pammie aleston]

couldn't agree more

[Viktor Atanasov]

Sorcerers can also crit up to 7K if armor reductions are in play. 8K is when armor reductions are in play as well. :)


If the idea is to make rogues glass cannons, then please give us back our damage. Developers keep giving this class nerf after nerf while other classes get buff after buff. We are all patiently waiting for developers to say something that will help relieve our anxiety! :p

Heck, some rogues even participated and supported other class buffs...myself included. Things were balanced before...now, they simply are not. So many people are complaining, STG, so this can't have been the right decision.

I Think Just The Rich Rogues Like Zeus Are Nervous Because Of This Client,I Mean No More Eyes And Things Like That(gems)
If You Dont Want New Update,Play As Mage Or Warrior(Simple As That).Its Your Own Choice,Dont Cry.
This Is The Balance,I Have Rogue Yea,Why Cry.
Yea,Now Mage And Rogue Have Almost The Same Armor,Why You Cry That You Dont Have Shield,Normal Mage Have 10%Dodge(Even The Most OP's One),While Normal Rogue Have 54% Dodge Stats So Yes Here Is The Balance.You Dodge Almost Every Second Hit.

[Tatman]

I've always said these folks out there in STS don't test stuff and generally don't play the game at all. I'm 100% sure now. I mean, just look at their comical responses regarding rogue survivability and the armor nerf.

[Devrail]

We want our armor back! This is an outrage! I have been playing rogue for 3 years (Clearview / iBlameTrue), and this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Yes I understand that at one point rogues were the best in pvp, but is the point here to make rogues suffer? Because trust me, we are suffering.

Nerf after nerf on rogue. How much lower must our stats go before they feel it is fair for us to pvp. We are one shot, regardless the armor, and this crit nerf .. Im at a loss of wordd.

Give us back our armor!!


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[Mel030]

Warriors have extremly high dmg and dps now,jugg and arc sword super op.
Mages have SUPER high dmg and crit,great hp boost.
Rogues have nerfed crit and armor,we are paper in pvp now,in pve we started farming deaths. + we have dmg nerf in pvp :D
Great 'Balance' :)

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[ryuba]

I am not realy understand what u talk in game language, but from what i feel rogue now become useless in elite map, this armor nerf must be following by nerf warior damage like 200+ or same as rogue armor nerf ( only in pve) , with that way good stat tank will try protect their party.
Look now even tank do alot dmg and feel they just need survive without keep their party safe :)


[ forgiveness ]

[Viktor Atanasov]

Why you all talk that warrior have high dmg and dps,just dont about that,everyone is good with arcane weapon now,arcane weapon arent mean for ren gol maps,they are for the expansion,wait for the expansion.You will see that warrior will be weak again,i mean thats the best from there.
Just wait for expansion.Please remove that arcane sword and see if warrior is op.I think no.

[Jazzi]

Why you all talk that warrior have high dmg and dps,just dont about that,everyone is good with arcane weapon now,arcane weapon arent mean for ren gol maps,they are for the expansion,wait for the expansion.You will see that warrior will be weak again,i mean thats the best from there.
Just wait for expansion.Please remove that arcane sword and see if warrior is op.I think no.

It is not the arcane sword, which makes warriors currently extremely good in PvE. The arcane sword is only op in PvP. I think you are lacking basic knowledge in terms of how to best utilise the warrier class sir :)

[Viktor Atanasov]

It is not the arcane sword, which makes warriors currently extremely good in PvE. The arcane sword is only op in PvP. I think you are lacking basic knowledge in terms of how to best utilise the warrier class sir :)

The thing that most makes warrior op is arcane sword for now,warrior with 700dmg is the normal warrior with arcane sword,weakest rogue have 700dg itself,with bow for 5k.Arcane Ring And Planar Pendant And Some Furys Will Make Him Even More Better.But im Talking From Perspective Where Im Warrior Without Gems Or Arcane Ring And Mythic Pendant.Just Clear Legendary Assault Gear And That Arcane Sword,All Clear,Gives Me 700Dmg In The Next Expansion Warrior Will Be Still Weak.
Im Not The One That Knows Most For This Game For Your Information. :)

[Ollashed]

i thinkt the armor nerf was good... but 500? lol too much....
100-300 i understand but 500 lel

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[ryuba]

The thing that most makes warrior op is arcane sword for now,warrior with 700dmg is the normal warrior with arcane sword,weakest rogue have 700dg itself,with bow for 5k.Arcane Ring And Planar Pendant And Some Furys Will Make Him Even More Better.But im Talking From Perspective Where Im Warrior Without Gems Or Arcane Ring And Mythic Pendant.Just Clear Legendary Assault Gear And That Arcane Sword,All Clear,Gives Me 700Dmg In The Next Expansion Warrior Will Be Still Weak.
Im Not The One That Knows Most For This Game For Your Information. :)
We talking about same low geared or both higer geared rogue and war,
Full geared war shouldnt get that dmg "IF" rogue get armor nerf,
They was start fair before armor nerf, rogue get more armor-war get more dmg.
Look now even rogue get over nerf of armor also crit nerf, warior still can make alot dmg.
Where is the balance?
If war a tank they shouldnt be a damager too because they become "selfish" in map when they get more dmg and rogue burn like paper.

[ forgiveness ]

[chinita_doll]

im fine with the crit nerf. but nerfing our armor îs way too much already. i understand that you are doing this for pvp, but pls also think about the people in pve who run elite maps and the arena.

[Zeus]

I Think Just The Rich Rogues Like Zeus Are Nervous Because Of This Client,I Mean No More Eyes And Things Like That(gems)
If You Dont Want New Update,Play As Mage Or Warrior(Simple As That).Its Your Own Choice,Dont Cry.
This Is The Balance,I Have Rogue Yea,Why Cry.
Yea,Now Mage And Rogue Have Almost The Same Armor,Why You Cry That You Dont Have Shield,Normal Mage Have 10%Dodge(Even The Most OP's One),While Normal Rogue Have 54% Dodge Stats So Yes Here Is The Balance.You Dodge Almost Every Second Hit.


If you think your average gear should be able to compete with my max gear, you have serious balance issues. You should be competitive with someone that has similar gear with you which is how it was BEFORE the update. Now, it has completely ruined this.

I've always supported warrior buff and Mage buff, this is thanks I get for that? I think that we rogues should remember this next time other classes are requesting a re balance yet again.

[ilhanna]

Why you all talk that warrior have high dmg and dps,just dont about that,everyone is good with arcane weapon now,arcane weapon arent mean for ren gol maps,they are for the expansion,wait for the expansion.You will see that warrior will be weak again,i mean thats the best from there.
Just wait for expansion.Please remove that arcane sword and see if warrior is op.I think no.

Hell no. I don't want weak warriors if that'a what it takes to feel strong as a rogue again. Besides, weak warriors are useless in a party because even more than before rogues depend on warriors being the first to take aggro, maintain it and heal when rogues can't pot fast enough. PvE was great for everyone after the new weapons that help warriors maintain aggro and deal sizable damage. I don't want them weakened. I just don't see why rogues have to be weakened in the process. The three classes were working side by side well just before the update.

[eridah]

Sad. Hope they bring back our armor. Alot quit rogs about this armor nerf. :(

[Zeus]

Hell no. I don't want weak warriors if that'a what it takes to feel strong as a rogue again. Besides, weak warriors are useless in a party because even more than before rogues depend on warriors being the first to take aggro, maintain it and heal when rogues can't pot fast enough. PvE was great for everyone after the new weapons that help warriors maintain aggro and deal sizable damage. I don't want them weakened. I just don't see why rogues have to be weakened in the process. The three classes were working side by side well just before the update.

Agreed, I truly don't get this selfish behavior when on many occasions, rogue players have helped support buffs when they were needed. And personally, I've never asked for a nerf on other classes, I've only asked them to become stronger.

This current armor change makes a rogue downright unplayable. Keep in mind that I have 6K HP and I still drop like a rock if anything so much as looks as me now. 1.8K armor was an armor rating that was acceptable 2 seasons ago...

However, that being said. It's my firm belief that STG is closely paying attention so I encourage that we keep our heads and don't insult them for this. Instead, work on providing the feedback that they need to properly fix things! :)

[eugene9707]

im fine with the crit nerf. but nerfing our armor îs way too much already. i understand that you are doing this for pvp, but pls also think about the people in pve who run elite maps and the arena.

I feel like the nerf is for pve and with next to no concern regarding to pvp (which is why pvp is unbalanced now)

I think the reason that rogues got armor nerf because they can pretty much 4 rogue an elite easily. So by doing this, it would require help from other classes.

As for about armor for elite maps and arena.... Us mages have less armor than you (and I know some mages can do elite without shield)

[ilhanna]

I feel like the nerf is for pve and with next to no concern regarding to pvp (which is why pvp is unbalanced now)

I think the reason that rogues got armor nerf because they can pretty much 4 rogue an elite easily. So by doing this, it would require help from other classes.

As for about armor for elite maps and arena.... Us mages have less armor than you (and I know some mages can do elite without shield)

Nope. I can say the same, arguing that this armor nerf has its root in pvp and with no thought or concern for the pve side of things. But the reality is whether in pve or pvp this armor nerf is unnecessary and hugely damaging, not just to rogues but to three-class balance as a whole. The new warrior weps, their glintstone set, these had made it very rewarding to have a warrior in party. Mages weapons have also been a great contributor to overall run efficiency with party buffs and the consecrate. I ran a lot of elite every day before the update and made a lot of new, improved personal elite time records with a warrior in party, but don't take it just from me. Many rogues will say the same. If you had run a lot of elite content every day before the new client you would know that there was even less focus on dps-only, or even rogue-only, runs. It had been great for the three classes. The new client gives us less crit overall, more damage through passive across the classes. But only the rogues get to have their back broken with the armor nerf.

[Neutrone]

I don't mind this armour and crit reduction as long as they remove our dmg nerf in pvp. An eye for an eye.

IGN: Mustang

[thekragle]

This was a pretty surprising nerf but I feel like there is something we are missing. It would seem that just reducing the armor of the upcoming gear would have been a better move than lowering our base armor. That being said lets hope that there is a reasonable explanation for this when the expansion hits or Sts helps us get some of our armor stats back. For all we know the new upcoming armor could provide some impressive stats and combined with the armor we already had it would be too much. I just hope this gets worked out without too much rogue bloodshed.

[Gerran]

Normally, as a pve rouge (L46), a hit from elite boss/arena boss will take 70-95% of my total hp but luckily we got potions to the rescue. Unfortunately STS has decided to banish 15-20% of our armor without any explanation which is very disappointing. So what do you expect, instant death! We ROUGES farm arena, but now it's the arena farming us. Please be considerate before you make updates, it's not that we complain, we loved and played AL for months and years, but such update is killing our class. We hope to hear your response STS.

Thank you.


Just in case you wonder how much is my current hp;
its 5Kplus without pet (can u imagine an instant death from a 5k hp, how much more for those lower than my stats!) It's very unfair..


" We want our armor back"

[Mel030]

+9999

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[Dex_addict]

Agreed, I truly don't get this selfish behavior when on many occasions, rogue players have helped support buffs when they were needed. And personally, I've never asked for a nerf on other classes, I've only asked them to become stronger.

This current armor change makes a rogue downright unplayable. Keep in mind that I have 6K HP and I still drop like a rock if anything so much as looks as me now. 1.8K armor was an armor rating that was acceptable 2 seasons ago...

However, that being said. It's my firm belief that STG is closely paying attention so I encourage that we keep our heads and don't insult them for this. Instead, work on providing the feedback that they need to properly fix things! :)

Yep, yep and yep!


This was a pretty surprising nerf but I feel like there is something we are missing. It would seem that just reducing the armor of the upcoming gear would have been a better move than lowering our base armor. That being said lets hope that there is a reasonable explanation for this when the expansion hits or Sts helps us get some of our armor stats back. For all we know the new upcoming armor could provide some impressive stats and combined with the armor we already had it would be too much. I just hope this gets worked out without too much rogue bloodshed.

I really hope you are right about this too, hate to feel so negative about it all and feel like every class but rogue is getting buffed and better :/

[Elgrablyx]

Yes the arena farm is too hard for us Rogues , I just don't understand why only we had changes taken . It's not right

[Lyfiia]

Yes the nerf was not fair... it simple crushed all rogues

[HeftyWood]

Normally, as a pve rouge (L46), a hit from elite boss/arena boss will take 70-95% of my total hp but luckily we got potions to the rescue. Unfortunately STS has decided to banish 15-20% of our armor which is very disappointing. So what do you expect, instant death! We ROUGES farm arena, but now it's the arena farming us. Please be considerate before you make updates, it's not that we complain, we loved and played AL for months and years, but such update is killing our class. We hope to hear your response STS.

Thank you.


Just in case you wonder how much is my current hp;
its 5Kplus without pet (can u imagine an instant death from a 5k hp, how much more for those lower than my stats!) It's very unfair..
Mages rule!

[Visiting]

Now that rogues see less tanky, that just means you have to play smarter than before. I used to simply tank red zones from most bosses seeing as they wouldn't kill me either way. No I've got to in the habit of actually trying to avoid hits that I know will kill me now that I'm a potato. Though this doesn't apply in Pvp, and STS should look into balancing that... *cough* give us our DMG in Pvp *cough*

[Ravager]

We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.

[Vrazicak]

+1 to ravager, its arcane legends not rogue legends, teams will finally include tanks since rogues wont be able to pot spam the map out

[azagreoralu]

As someone who regularly plays all 3 classes in pvp i think we were getting close to balanced. The only part of pvp that rogues were op at is 1v1. I feel like in 1v1 it took less skill to kill as a rogue then with the other classes but in clash this wasn't really the case. IMO the crit nerf was fine, but a armor nerf was a bit too much when in end game pvp all it takes is a second to die. If sts wants to make rogues die easy fine, but like others have suggested they should take away the nerf on damage. As for ren'gol elites i really don't know since i never run them because fangs are the only thing there.

[MissVzla]

People complaining about how rogues don't have any shield, well they have insane crits. If you're dying easy on pvp then blame your team play not your character. The way we should determine if a character is overpowered is when we play duel. each class have their own weak point and their advantage. and the key to wining should be how well you understand your opponent and how well you time your skill, and needless to mention the gears comparatively. rogues have been playing for long with the upper hand so i know you feel scared to face this fair challenge but don't be, just learn to tackle your opponent with skill not with advantage. but now that there will be skill mastery no one can cry to sts about being the op class anymore since its about building your character yourself to gain the upper hand ;) gg sts. For example in dota 2, it totally depends on the items we build. If we go for pure dps we lack in damage, mana, magic resistance, armor, escape and so on. or if we go for pure damage build as powerful as we might be from range we will be a squishy one when we encounter close combat :)
so no more crying let your skill decide if you win or not.
WTF... *rolled eyes*

[eugene9707]

well.... us mages have even less armor and we managed to survive... (no, not everyone use shield)...

i'm sure you'll find a way to survive.

Imo, the imbalance lies more in pvp rather than pve

[chinita_doll]

+1 to ravager, its arcane legends not rogue legends, teams will finally include tanks since rogues wont be able to pot spam the map out

i think it's unfair to stereotype us that we always seclude warriors in our runs. i for one always look for a war in making a pt in elite maps when farming. as a matter of fact, i have more warrior friends in my list than rogues. so yeah, it's not always "rogue legends" for all of us.

[Ryughie]

rogue's down .

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[Fredystern]

Now that rogues see less tanky, that just means you have to play smarter than before. I used to simply tank red zones from most bosses seeing as they wouldn't kill me either way. No I've got to in the habit of actually trying to avoid hits that I know will kill me now that I'm a potato. Though this doesn't apply in Pvp, and STS should look into balancing that... *cough* give us our DMG in Pvp *cough*

No!!! No more damage on pvp -___- rogues critical was awesome and more damage?
More damage = instan kill a mage

[Fredystern]

Anyway rogues armor was reduce cause its almost 1.5x more times than a mage, thats make a rogue hard as tank in lvl 41 its almost impossible to beat a good geared rogue >.<

[Alhuntrazeck]

Now that rogues see less tanky, that just means you have to play smarter than before. I used to simply tank red zones from most bosses seeing as they wouldn't kill me either way. No I've got to in the habit of actually trying to avoid hits that I know will kill me now that I'm a potato. Though this doesn't apply in Pvp, and STS should look into balancing that... *cough* give us our DMG in Pvp *cough*

You were a potato before, now you're a French fry. >:)

[Gerran]

We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.
This is absolutely just your own belief, there is no way I would not run with warrior or mage in elite map, a warrior/mage with good initiating skills and good timing in heal is great remedy in party.. however, in order to hit numerous run in arena, we prefer to party with all rog. What I'm trying to say is that rog, mage and warrior has its own advantage and disadvantage but this armor reduce for rog has taken a big part of our survival capability. Self centeredness won't bring equality to everyone.

[Donquixoth]

Come on, rogue armor nerf is normal, this will make the game more balance. Since rogue critical hit too wonder, Rogue era should be ended now for balancing the game.

[eugene9707]

However, in order to hit numerous run in arena, we prefer to party with all rog. What I'm trying to say is that mage and warrior has its own advantage and disadvantage but this armor reduce for rog has taken a big part of our survival capability. Self centeredness won't bring equality to everyone.
Isn't all rogue parties for arena excluding other classes and the exact reason sts decided to nerf rogue armor?

[Gerran]

Isn't all rogue parties for arena excluding other classes and the exact reason sts decided to nerf rogue armor?

then why not party with all mages or warrior and exclude our class... why blame rouges for their team up in running arena?

[Gerran]

Come on, rogue armor nerf is normal, this will make the game more balance. Since rogue critical hit too wonder, Rogue era should be ended now for balancing the game.

how about armor nerf for warrior would you still say its normal? You're only seeing your bright side, not for everyone.

[Schnitzel]

The max amount of HP I have (with pet) is 4800. Welcome to the wonderful world of one shots.

[will0]

i cant even kill warrior using 2H sword as a mage welcome to the world of mage too

[Manuel Emilio]

Mage: dmg-mana
Rogue: dps-crit
Warrior: HP-Armor.
Give the rogue the armor, give the mage hp and armor and give Crit and dps to Warrior then there is no reason for a pt. Before of 1.5 when i go into Shuyal Arena rogues and Mages said "A War ZzZzZ" and next leave the map (I use war 7k hp, 2700 armor and 632 dmg). STS nerf rogue armor because it make the rogue a independient class (the game don't work in that way, Mage is support, Rogue killer and War tank), now the rogue need support from mage, the next should be nerf War dmg (800 dmg for a war make it independient too).

Enviado desde mi B1-730 mediante Tapatalk

[soon]

i cant even kill warrior using 2H sword as a mage welcome to the world of mage too

The nerf was all rogue lvs. Arc sword is level 46. Rogues have good health and armo because the arc ring and planar pendent, that are level 41. Before that does not have to use.

In my opinion they should wait for the new items and 56 lv.

[Michael Woolley]

This nerf will allow warriors back in to places like arena and force the tanks to do what they are surpose to do. TANK!
With the implementation of the new jugg and after testing it in pve it works very well to help protect other party members. Becausevof jugg being useful in pve again it also forces tanks to steer away from skills like VB. I for one have finally felt how easy it is to protect a rogue using jugg. The problem is now we don't have many pve tanks and I have a lot of rogues telling me this. maybe a few tanky rogues may want to finally give it a go.

[seraneyla]

I'm not using planar pendant but still I can survive from those evil mobs and bosses. But now, I kept farming deaths. Makes me feel like a total tissue. Before the update, I can run solo arena and maps. After the update, I died even when step on Ferrix poisons. 😪

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[Michael Woolley]

U need a warrior with jugg in pt. this is not a solo running game.

[Gerran]

Please guys don't take away the point here, we want our armor back that's it!! And why the hek u scared with our armor? it help us survive from one smash, can't you just simply understand that!!!!.. its very simple.. don't make it hard for you warr and mage...

[seraneyla]

U need a warrior with jugg in pt. this is not a solo running game.
I run solo to improve my skills @.@

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[xutreuqux]

There is a reason why tank have AoE heal with shield and high armor, there is a reason why sts make 3 classes, there is a reason why AL have a pt system. Period

[Gerran]

There is a reason why tank have AoE heal with shield and high armor, there is a reason why sts make 3 classes, there is a reason why AL have a pt system. Period

OMG, my point was very clear, even if we have warrior or mage in party, its useless!!! what does the heal can do when your already dead with one hit!!! Does it make sense to you?

[Michael Woolley]

The point I'm trying to make is with a Good warrior with jugg u won't be one hit except by red zones which u will clearly need skill. No single class should be able to solo entire maps.

[Earlingstad]

The point I'm trying to make is with a Good warrior with jugg u won't be one hit except by red zones which u will clearly need skill. No single class should be able to solo entire maps.

The rude rogue party which rejects tanks/mages for runs is an over-hyped myth. Like the Arcane Deary. We hyped it up so much, it got real. On my rogue I am unable to solo entire maps. A lot of my rogue friends are unable to do that. The majority is like us. We party with tanks and mages or whoever is ready to run elites. Hats off to the handful of rogues who can solo those elite maps.

Can you not see it - that it is not a class issue - but the ability to solo a map depends on the skill of the player? Maybe that rogue who solos elites is a hardcore extra-special awesome rogue. Rather than acknowledging the skill/timing/stats combination of that rogue, you are dismissing their capability as "power of their class" and unfairly asking for a nerf to the whole rogue class of every single level. If this is not arbitrary what is?

[Sheentaro]

Agree! Nerfed damage in PvP, Nerfed Armor... Whats next? Nerf HP and Crit? While tanks and mages continously getting buffs? This is way too unfair. Rogues are now thinner than a tissue paper especially in PvP aspect. Speaking of PvE , Warriors can hit up to 800 dmg and 900 dps.. and + the jugg buff.. they can actually solo an elite map if they want to. Mages , High damage and Dps .. High HP and crit... they definitely can solo an elite map with the right builds just like a rogue.. everything works fine before the client 1.5.. so whats with the Rogue's armor nerf?????


#SAVEROGUE
#GIVEBACKTHEFREAKINGARMOR

[Gerran]

The point I'm trying to make is with a Good warrior with jugg u won't be one hit except by red zones which u will clearly need skill. No single class should be able to solo entire maps.

Are you sure with jugg buff we rog can withstand from heavy blows? Well if yes, does your jugg active all the time? Except if you can ask the mobs/boss to stay calm and wait for jugg buff's cooldown. Sister/brother, its a choice if you want to run solo or with bodyguards or babysitters, Mostly of the LB player in every major event are solo runner. Why bother to get partymate when you can confidently solo a map. Its just your mindset telling you that you can't. But we are talking about one smash from arena and elite mobs/bosses here, your buff heal is really useless if your mate rog is already DEAD. Except if you can supply ample of ankhs; that would be useful. xD

[Sheentaro]

Agree! Nerfed damage in PvP, Nerfed Armor... Whats next? Nerf HP and Crit? While tanks and mages continuously getting buffs? This is way too unfair. Rogues are now thinner than a tissue paper especially in PvP aspect. Speaking of PvE , Warriors can hit up to 800 dmg and 900 dps.. and + the jugg buff.. they can actually solo an elite map if they want to. Mages , High damage and Dps .. High HP and crit... they definitely can solo an elite map with the right builds just like a rogue.. everything works fine before the client 1.5.. so whats with the Rogue's armor nerf?????


#SAVEROGUE
#GIVEBACKTHEFREAKINGARMOR



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[epicrrr]

I LIKE how rogs are not so tanky now, this is how its suppose to be.

-rog for 3 yrs

[Michael Woolley]

Your missing the point of the entire game. The game is a team based stratagy and it now requires just that. A good rogue now needs to stratagise with other classes to best complete maps. This is what the game is ment to be. This is what I do as a tank with other rogues and mages. I am a maxed out pve tank and no Matter how good my skills it would take forever to complete a map solo.

[Gerran]

I LIKE how rogs are not so tanky now, this is how its suppose to be.

-rog for 3 yrs

we are talking pve here not pvp rog twink, but tnx for dropping.

[Michael Woolley]

Are you sure with jugg buff we rog can withstand from heavy blows? Well if yes, does your jugg active all the time? Except if you can ask the mobs/boss to stay calm and wait for jugg buff's cooldown. Sister/brother, its a choice if you want to run solo or with bodyguards or babysitters, Mostly of the LB player in every major event are solo runner. Why bother to get partymate when you can confidently solo a map. Its just your mindset telling you that you can't. But we are talking about one smash from arena and elite mobs/bosses here, your buff heal is really useless if your mate rog is already DEAD. Except if you can supply ample of ankhs; that would be useful. xD

Yes jugg (taunt) heal (taunt) aagis (taunt) timed skills my friend. Come run with me and rogue friends some time.

[Morholt]

In this thread: look at all the nubby rogues who don't realize a warrior's Horn of Renewal can give the whole party invulnerability.


News flash: I've had arena bosses 1 hit a mage at 1.5k defense, 5.3k health, and an uncharged shield. Welcome to the world of being killed.

Pro tip: don't stand in red zones. Red zones are meant to kill players.

Learn to maneuver and play the game, rather than stand in place and mash buttons.


BACK in the day...we always needed a warrior in the party. A group of rogues wasn't going to accomplish much.
A warrior to hold our ground.
A mage to contain/weaken everything.
A rogue to chip away one or two at a time. Not stand in a crowd of 15.

[Fredystern]

Agree! Nerfed damage in PvP, Nerfed Armor... Whats next? Nerf HP and Crit? While tanks and mages continously getting buffs? This is way too unfair. Rogues are now thinner than a tissue paper especially in PvP aspect. Speaking of PvE , Warriors can hit up to 800 dmg and 900 dps.. and + the jugg buff.. they can actually solo an elite map if they want to. Mages , High damage and Dps .. High HP and crit... they definitely can solo an elite map with the right builds just like a rogue.. everything works fine before the client 1.5.. so whats with the Rogue's armor nerf?????


#SAVEROGUE
#GIVEBACKTHEFREAKINGARMOR

Yep everything work fine for rogue but mage?? Low hp low armor -_- warrior no need to get buff or nerf anymore mage still need some buff in their stat, i play all character so i know which one need to get buff and nerf

[Michael Woolley]

In this thread: look at all the nubby rogues who don't realize a warrior's Horn of Renewal can give the whole party invulnerability.


News flash: I've had arena bosses 1 hit a mage at 1.5k defense, 5.3k health, and an uncharged shield. Welcome to the world of being killed.

Pro tip: don't stand in red zones. Red zones are meant to kill players.

Learn to maneuver and play the game, rather than stand in place and mash buttons.


BACK in the day...we always needed a warrior in the party. A group of rogues wasn't going to accomplish much.
A warrior to hold our ground.
A mage to contain/weaken everything.
A rogue to chip away one or two at a time. Not stand in a crowd of 15.

Well said...
Not only does the heal grant invulnerability it also taunts enemies taking hits away from other classes. This with crowd control from mages who know how to use there skills makes sure the rogue takes little damage and can do there job to deal high impact damage. Rogues dont realise the skills of a warrior because they have never needed them due to there ridiculously high armour.
Rogues are not ment to stand in close combat and fire arrows. They are ment to be agile and move in only when time is right and fire arrows from a distance.

[Sheentaro]

Yep everything work fine for rogue but mage?? Low hp low armor -_- warrior no need to get buff or nerf anymore mage still need some buff in their stat, i play all character so i know which one need to get buff and nerf
I understand the frustration on the low armor but Arcane ring + Armor Passive compensates a little... Low HP? How come? Have u gotten Planar Pendant , Arcane Ring or any Arcane pet? Mages usually hit 5Kish HP (pure int) with those 3 and a maxed out can hit 6K depends on the pets and jewels they use... Mage HP and Rogue HP are almost lined up imo. Btw , I also play on all characters just for you to know [emoji4]

[Morholt]

Well said...
Not only does the heal grant invulnerability it also taunts enemies taking hits away from other classes. This with crowd control from mages who know how to use there skills makes sure the rogue takes little damage and can do there job to deal high impact damage. Rogues dont realise the skills of a warrior because they have never needed them due to there ridiculously high armour.
Rogues are not ment to stand in close combat and fire arrows. They are ment to be agile and move in only when time is right and fire arrows from a distance.Not to mention rogues can use Shadow Veil, like they used to.
If a rogue was at 1900 defense and now at 1600..veil turns 1600 into 1920. Not only that, but veil also reduces mobs damage by 15% on top of that.
A scant 9 second cool down, as opposed to a mage's shield's 15 seconds.
A rogue can choose to use Nekro on top of this. As well as stand in a mage's consecrate.


Gosh, I'm really missing the old days of elite Frostir at the 31 cap before he was repeatedly weakened. Even after he was nerfed, you brought a strong warrior if you wanted a chance. And this was well before ankhs. If you died, you then had to struggle running back through the skipped mobs. lol

[faithpece]

Normally, as a pve rouge (L46), a hit from elite boss/arena boss will take 70-95% of my total hp but luckily we got potions to the rescue. Unfortunately STS has decided to banish 15-20% of our armor which is very disappointing. So what do you expect, instant death! We ROUGES farm arena, but now it's the arena farming us. Please be considerate before you make updates, it's not that we complain, we loved and played AL for months and years, but such update is killing our class. We hope to hear your response STS.

Thank you.


Just in case you wonder how much is my current hp;
its 5Kplus without pet (can u imagine an instant death from a 5k hp, how much more for those lower than my stats!) It's very unfair..


" We want our armor back"

Its not a Solo Game.. Its a Team Game,. That is why you have warrior and mages....Warrior tank rogue deal damage mages support & damage !

[Donquixoth]

how about armor nerf for warrior would you still say its normal? You're only seeing your bright side, not for everyone.

Warrior with low armor isnt warrior :/. How about just increase aimed shot CD to be 10s? that cool right. Unstunable rogue is just crazy with their aimed shot.

[Earlingstad]

If you think your average gear should be able to compete with my max gear, you have serious balance issues. You should be competitive with someone that has similar gear with you which is how it was BEFORE the update. Now, it has completely ruined this.

I've always supported warrior buff and Mage buff, this is thanks I get for that? I think that we rogues should remember this next time other classes are requesting a re balance yet again.

Totally agreed. I too was supporting mages heal buff vehemently like a lot of other players. Why? Because regardless of whether mage is my main class or not, I wished for it to be healthy so that competition is fair and enjoyable. As players who love the game, we should post opinions that protect the health of the game, not put down a class just because we are not owning a specific person who plays that class. Before the nerf, things were almost perfect.

[Mel030]

Before the nerf things were perfect,we finnaly got the balance we always wanted and Bam! Sts nerfs the rogues...bye bye balance again :'(

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[Gerran]

Why do you always rely on pt, its up to me! its up to you! if you want to get pt so be it!!! our main concern here is we have our armor back so we can at least survive from an instant death!!!.. stop talking non sense, even a pt with warrior or mage will not change the fact that we can easily die from an unexpected hit!! You know what I mean? open your eyes people!!! its not about warrior/mage who can help us run maps, -its the about being killed by one hit!!!- Will your heal or jugg and etc can revive a dead mate? Do you even understand that?
PLEASE READ PLEASE READ AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND before talking nonsense... sigh, im sorry to be this mean but its you don't understand the point here!!!!!

-Its not about how we rouges run maps (solo or pt with warr / mage), its about the armor taken from us without any explanation from STS.

-Whatever we say here still has no meaning, only STS attention can put an end to this issue.

[Michael Woolley]

Why do you always rely on pt, its up to me! its up to you! if you want to get pt so be it!!! our main concern here is we have our armor back so we can at least survive from an instant death!!!.. stop talking non sense, even a pt with warrior or mage will not change the fact that we can easily die from an unexpected hit!! You know what I mean? open your eyes people!!! its not about warrior/mage who can help us run maps, -its the about being killed by one hit!!!- Will your heal or jugg and etc can revive a dead mate? Do you even understand that?
PLEASE READ PLEASE READ AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND before talking nonsense... sigh, im sorry to be this mean but its you don't understand the point here!!!!!

The whole idea of warrior is to protect your team mates from dieing buy hold aggro and dealing damage to some degree.This is what is called TANKING!!!!
Everyone gets one hit even warriors. Warriors can prevent this from happening to the most part but some u will have to prevent urself this is what agility is for what rogues will have to do more of now instead of just spam spam buttons. Stratagy will find its way back into the game.

[Anehazaz]

We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.
Hmm maybe you just don't have the right rogues in your fl? My friends and I have always been happy to play mixed team.
This stemmed from way back, 1 war,2 rogues,1 Mage was the way we first went into elites...nothing changed except after a few weeks into Tindirin getting warriors to join a party became harder and harder....so of course we had to adapt on occasions.

[uehi]

before armor red i can vs warior mage;) with glinstone set ferv bow , both can win both can lose, both can survive alrdy;)? alrdy i can only feeed them;)

[Avaree]

Normally, as a pve rouge (L46), a hit from elite boss/arena boss will take 70-95% of my total hp but luckily we got potions to the rescue. Unfortunately STS has decided to banish 15-20% of our armor without any explanation which is very disappointing. So what do you expect, instant death! We ROUGES farm arena, but now it's the arena farming us. Please be considerate before you make updates, it's not that we complain, we loved and played AL for months and years, but such update is killing our class. We hope to hear your response STS.

Thank you.


Just in case you wonder how much is my current hp;
its 5Kplus without pet (can u imagine an instant death from a 5k hp, how much more for those lower than my stats!) It's very unfair..


" We want our armor back"

I am an end game rogue and I have to be honest, I really dont understand all the (pve) complaining .....take off the "I lost armor blinders"..Look at the big picture.




We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.

This is absolutely just your own belief, there is no way I would not run with warrior or mage in elite map, a warrior/mage with good initiating skills and good timing in heal is great remedy in party.. however, in order to hit numerous run in arena, we prefer to party with all rog. What I'm trying to say is that rog, mage and warrior has its own advantage and disadvantage but this armor reduce for rog has taken a big part of our survival capability. Self centeredness won't bring equality to everyone.
I lost armor just like you did. I have 1749 armor with the effigy buff, 1521 without. 105 str 4595 health with nek summoned. I have not added any points into skill mastery yet, still using my old build due to using the glintstone set. I learned to adapt to the lack of str, hp, mana, & now armor. (In my set I use one noble water jewel to help with the mana loss with the glint set, you can use jewels to bump your armor, add mastery pts to razor shield to reduce damage).
Yes, I do feel a bit more hits from certain clusters of mobs (ren gol) but, this can also be avoided by proper timing of skills. As far as farming arena, I still can solo the arena, any any other elite map. But i choose to run in a party with a skilled tank (many out there), in non scaled maps.


Your missing the point of the entire game. The game is a team based stratagy and it now requires just that. A good rogue now needs to stratagise with other classes to best complete maps. This is what the game is ment to be...................

Well said above Michael :)

[ShakeygirlROG]

If devs are reading this thread then u can see how ALL rogues are not happy about continously nerfing them and buffing other classes... New maps will be surely hader then ren gol and in rengols we get one shot... I agree with returning our armor at least 150(cuz it was reduced for about 300) and buffing mages armor... Rogues dosent have any defensive skill like mages sheild except razor but that's still nothing cuz it doesn't reduces that much dmg even with masteries... please devs answer us about this we would like to discuss about it. Thank you :)

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[TW84]

My rogue can also still solo arena. Deathless. I have L46 legendary bow, L46 legendary helm, L46 legendary armor, L46 legendary belt. Can do it with legendary pet too.
Why compare if any class can solo elites. It's just a matter of pots used or time spent. Why would a warrior attempt it though, because it will take 1 billion pots and 10 hours to complete a map. Argument is invalid.
If a weak rogue can die in PVE, then get a tank who can and wants to hold aggro. Mage to control mobs.

I cannot say whether PVP is unbalanced. I've never heard complaints about Glintstone Aegis warriors being OP in PVP tho? Or mythic Glintstone Maul? Is warrior OP then? Not fair to let an arcane sword determine if a class is OP! It is hard to compare classes in a duel. Things like gear and skill is a big factor. Don't just whine in order to whine. SHOW the differences instead. Two equally skilled and geared people against each other. Else it just may looks like a rant to a dev.

PS. I have all classes at L46

[Kingslaughter]

Rogue can survive with tank and mage back in season 4 when elite nord even theirs armor not good , and when 41 come where all rogue can easily solo all map with that armor...i bet all old rogue didnt complain about this armor nerf...

[Ticklish]

Remember that to even get to 2k+ armor, you need to have both the Glintstone helm and armor equipped. Which means others who do not have the set are probably sitting at 1.4-15k armor, similar to that of a mage. A mage who has shield and multiple skills that can stun and root from a distance. I have a low-geared mage and I now fare better on that one lol. Please don't argue that rogues can use our glintstone set for traps that stun. Because that then our hp and armor are both too low that even setting those traps are a huge hazard.

Our mana potion consumption already burns our pockets out. After the update, I find myself spamming pots more than dealing damage. I'm not rich by any means but I'm sure I'm still better of than probably thousands who are just trying to play the game casually and enjoy it with friends. I'd hate to see how this affects them.




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[mysteriousin]

PAPER ROG

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[kinzmet]

If the rogues would depend on the new razorshield set up, then the razor should have a bit longer time. I got both endgame sorc and rogue, with the sorc I never felt squishy anymore thanks to the Arcane shield buff and mastery. But with rogue? meh, better keep playing with sorc for now. Its a waste of potions and ankhs to run rogues in elite as of now.


If warrior is rock
and sorcerer is scissor,
then rogue is paper

[Merchadia]

OMG, my point was very clear, even if we have warrior or mage in party, its useless!!! what does the heal can do when your already dead with one hit!!! Does it make sense to you?

Not if you don't get hit, include a warrior and watch rogues and mages be invulnerable


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[uehi]

I am an end game rogue and I have to be honest, I really dont understand all the (pve) complaining .....take off the "I lost armor blinders"..Look at the big picture.



I lost armor just like you did. I have 1749 armor with the effigy buff, 1521 without. 105 str 4595 health with nek summoned. I have not added any points into skill mastery yet, still using my old build due to using the glintstone set. I learned to adapt to the lack of str, hp, mana, & now armor. (In my set I use one noble water jewel to help with the mana loss with the glint set, you can use jewels to bump your armor, add mastery pts to razor shield to reduce damage).
Yes, I do feel a bit more hits from certain clusters of mobs (ren gol) but, this can also be avoided by proper timing of skills. As far as farming arena, I still can solo the arena, any any other elite map. But i choose to run in a party with a skilled tank (many out there), in non scaled maps.



Well said above Michael :)
i wish see how you play pvp, with this useless stuff, what help you survive water gem hp doge:? warior:? uh nothing;)? we still have dmg but hard to deal from floor xD

[ryuba]

If this nerf realy make a balance as many player says ( or no one realy says) then stg must be start thinking about buff war armor and make a balance instead of nerf rogue armor,
Why must weakned 1 class if other feel too ( weak) just renerf rogue armor and give that as buff for war then we may feel a balance.
And yeah u guys will know how this nerf work if u run elite everyday before nerf update and take a look to elite after nerf come.

[ forgiveness ]

[Candyheart]

Sts, pls make us rogues 0mana 0hp -100% crit so that it's fair to mage and warrior. its just so unfair.

[Avaree]

i wish see how you play pvp, with this useless stuff, what help you survive water gem hp doge:? warior:? uh nothing;)? we still have dmg but hard to deal from floor xD

Re-read my post :) i said PVE, If i chose to pvp i would re-adjust my equipment to a pvp set :)

[Zeus]

Not to mention rogues can use Shadow Veil, like they used to.
If a rogue was at 1900 defense and now at 1600..veil turns 1600 into 1920. Not only that, but veil also reduces mobs damage by 15% on top of that.
A scant 9 second cool down, as opposed to a mage's shield's 15 seconds.
A rogue can choose to use Nekro on top of this. As well as stand in a mage's consecrate.


Gosh, I'm really missing the old days of elite Frostir at the 31 cap before he was repeatedly weakened. Even after he was nerfed, you brought a strong warrior if you wanted a chance. And this was well before ankhs. If you died, you then had to struggle running back through the skipped mobs. lol

Rogues can't use shadow veil, lol. The way the buff/debuff system works is that any armor percentage debuff renders any armor percentage buff useless.

[Zeus]

Re-read my post :) i said PVE, If i chose to pvp i would re-adjust my equipment to a pvp set :)

For PvP, anything hits you like a truck. STG should've really thought about how this works in PvP, especially since a majority of the buffs for other classes were made with PvP in mind.

I really hope STG does something to at least make this a PvE only sort of thing.

[Midievalmodel]

For PvP, anything hits you like a truck. STG should've really thought about how this works in PvP, especially since a majority of the buffs for other classes were made with PvP in mind.

I really hope STG does something to at least make this a PvE only sort of thing.

I agree. I mainly play a warrior but have a rogue as an alt. There has been several other instances in the past when stg makes changes with PVE in mind but it dramatically made PVP unbalanced. STG really has to start buffing and nerfing specifically for PVP or for PVE to mantain balanced gameplay.

[kinzmet]

For PvP, anything hits you like a truck. STG should've really thought about how this works in PvP, especially since a majority of the buffs for other classes were made with PvP in mind.

I really hope STG does something to at least make this a PvE only sort of thing.



Well, being hit by truck in PvP is an understatement specially to under-jeweled set like me.

[Tapash Bose]

Yep everything work fine for rogue but mage?? Low hp low armor -_- warrior no need to get buff or nerf anymore mage still need some buff in their stat, i play all character so i know which one need to get buff and nerf

Criteria already nerfed. Think next in line is damage. STS should limit rogue damage to 500.So what even it serves no purpose in the game ? The bright side is it will make warriors happy..loool. All the supporters of rogue nerf here never noticed that now a days almost 70% of warriors move with 10k hp,3k+ armor..and 800 plus damage..and stll all we hear is complain complain and complain..nerf rogues..dont increase armor of mages...yes mages need more armor to bring more balance..and buffing mage armor was the best way to go...but what doing...warriors will feel unhappy..Just one suggestion..change the name of the game to Warrior legends..useless to even have the option of other classes...Why confuse a newbie when u are showering everything on one class only?

[Tapash Bose]

And all the experts here...so called op Warriors have ever noticed how difficult it was for a rogue to get in Elite Rengol without a nekro...even without armor nerf...?

[Avaree]

And all the experts here...so called op Warriors have ever noticed how difficult it was for a rogue to get in Elite Rengol without a nekro...even without armor nerf...?

In many parties I partake in, If there is not a mage or a mage not using ice, we have and will use one breeze. (Such an under credited pet.) Its not all about nekro. Its about team work, party mechanics, and skill knowledge :)
*btw 99% of my elite parties always includes a tank*

[Tapash Bose]

In many parties I partake in, If there is not a mage or a mage not using ice, we have and will use one breeze. (Such an under credited pet.) Its not all about nekro. Its about team work, party mechanics, and skill knowledge :)
*btw 99% of my parties, include a tank*

To each his choice..its not about pushing anything down anybody's throat..I have nothing against running with a tank..and I do so frequently..but it should not be something crafted in stone.Why is everybody sooooooooo very concerned with high rogue armor but every single one of them conveniently forgets the abnormally high damage of warriors.(with arcane sword it is easily 800 plus)..I think mathematics is a much better way to explain things rather than rhetoric...I will surely love to understand my lack of knowledge in skill and how i can make them up for the lost armor with that...:)
As by figures,An avg rogue has around 5k hp..while an warrior has 10k plus(armor wise almost 1.6 -1.7 times)..so where does the sick argument of rogue being a tank pop up ?

[Sirspamsaloty]

Use diamond jewel

[Redjellydonut]

Dont begg for armor that wasnt suppose to be there in the first place... U want armor? Then the new pet is for you! :) they say they are getting hit by trucks while they hit like trains...

[Michael Woolley]

To each his choice..its not about pushing anything down anybody's throat..I have nothing against running with a tank..and I do so frequently..but it should not be something crafted in stone.Why is everybody sooooooooo very concerned with high rogue armor but every single one of them conveniently forgets the abnormally high damage of warriors.(with arcane sword it is easily 800 plus)..I think mathematics is a much better way to explain things rather than rhetoric...I will surely love to understand my lack of knowledge in skill and how i can make them up for the lost armor with that...:)
As by figures,An avg rogue has around 5k hp..while an warrior has 10k plus(armor wise almost 1.6 -1.7 times)..so where does the sick argument of rogue being a tank pop up ?

The reason for the high armour and health on a warrior is because we have to withstand heavy damage from many mobs all at once under taunt skills like jugg. And I guarantee u we get hit by more then 1.6-1.7 times more then a rogue. Dam I stand in a group of 8-10 rengol mobs and hold them back while the rogue kills the healer single. Before the nerf rogues would stand in this group and tank as a warrior does. This is all for the better in pve it has also made some pets more useful again. Example is whim. Rogues can use shadow veil instead of traps and Mage or rogue can use whim. With all the pets available in this day there as many opertunities within pts.

[Zeus]

The reason for the high armour and health on a warrior is because we have to withstand heavy damage from many mobs all at once under taunt skills like jugg. And I guarantee u we get hit by more then 1.6-1.7 times more then a rogue. Dam I stand in a group of 8-10 rengol mobs and hold them back while the rogue kills the healer single. Before the nerf rogues would stand in this group and tank as a warrior does. This is all for the better in pve it has also made some pets more useful again. Example is whim. Rogues can use shadow veil instead of traps and Mage or rogue can use whim. With all the pets available in this day there as many opertunities within pts.

If it's your job to tank, lets take away the arcane sword's damage, right? Warriors shouldn't be doing a rogue's job. :P

[Titanfall]

We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.
This

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[Michael Woolley]

If it's your job to tank, lets take away the arcane sword's damage, right? Warriors shouldn't be doing a rogue's job. :P

I'm talking pve not pvp anyone with knowledge of tanks knows the sword is no good in pve except for bosses and tbh if a rogue now needs a tank at boss I see more need for weapons like aagis. This thread is about pve so I think we should keep it that way.

[Morholt]

Rogues can't use shadow veil, lol. The way the buff/debuff system works is that any armor percentage debuff renders any armor percentage buff useless.Wait, wasn't it the stronger of the two takes effect? Like, if a buff is 7% and a debuff is 3%, only the 7% buff works.

If it is indeed that a 1% debuff can override even a charged gale's 50% defense buff, I guess we just may get to relive Frostir's days of glory. :D But, rogues shouldn't have the defense penalty in PvP...or at least not as severe as it stands. Maybe this will work out better once we have the new level 56 endgame gear (the powerful arcane proc won't seem as powerful, plus many may be using a different weapon). Maybe the 36 mythic daggers' proc will be making a return at 56. o.O
If it is indeed any debuff overrides any buff, then the buff/debuff system is what we all should have been rallying to have fixed with the new client.

[eugene9707]

Wait, wasn't it the stronger of the two takes effect? Like, if a buff is 7% and a debuff is 3%, only the 7% buff works.

If it is indeed that a 1% debuff can override even a charged gale's 50% defense buff, I guess we just may get to relive Frostir's days of glory. :D But, rogues shouldn't have the defense penalty in PvP...or at least not as severe as it stands. Maybe this will work out better once we have the new level 56 endgame gear (the powerful arcane proc won't seem as powerful, plus many may be using a different weapon). Maybe the 36 mythic daggers' proc will be making a return at 56. o.O
If it is indeed any debuff overrides any buff, then the buff/debuff system is what we all should have been rallying to have fixed with the new client.

ya, Cara (or a dev) posted the calculation for buff and debuffs a while ago ..... If a debuff exists, then buffs are ignored, else, the higher buff will be applied...

I'll see if i can find the post again

Edit: found it.. turns out it's Null and not Cara, but here you go:


You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

[Michael Woolley]

The arcane sword proc is precisely why timed run teams with a tank are now knocking records off 4-rogue teams, especially in the harder elites where quickly killing large mob pulls speeds up the run immensely. And once someone invited me (a rogue) to a party with 3 other tanks (all using the arcane sword) and I later ran with 3 mages using the arcane staff in the same map (elite wilds). The 3-tank party was faster by 1 minute. So you tell me...

I believe it was the aagis together with the arcane sword at boss which contributed to the timed records. I can tell u as a warrior it is much quicker to haul through a group of mobs with the aagis then it is the arcane sword. Trust me I own both weapons. Btw saf didn't u quit some time ago? Don't think u should be commenting if your out of practice with the current game.

[Michael Woolley]

If you read what I said in my post you would see that I have been playing the game, and I was part of a team which did manage to set a timed run record, with a tank that used the arcane sword all the way to the boss and did not switch to Aegis at any time (the time was later beaten but not by much). I don't comment on these things unless I have my own experience to back it up.

Well now with the rogue armour nerf it would be very difficult for a tank to use arcane sword to keep his team safe from deaths unless it has a magical taunt added with an armour buff. Btw how many rogues in the team with the tank that set that record?

[Michael Woolley]

There were 3 rogues. If you want me to spit it out I will. My point was to emphasize that tanks now do make a positive difference in timed run times and in regular runs in general, because of that weapon. If you want to nitpick and say rogues are still setting the pace for records and you want multiple tanks per team to muscle in on the records then I will have to take this conversation with you private, because we are beginning to derail this thread.
U are right the sword did make a difference but not anymore. Try running elite rengol and pulling large with 3 rogues and a warrior armed with a sword. Let me know how many times both rogue and warrior dies. Aagis is the best pve weopon for tanks of now. It taunts and has a significant armout increase and togethet with jugg and heal it can keep rogues and mages safe from death. Tbh i even had to swap vengeful blood a significant increase of damage for jugg to best keep my team safe. Sword is however still the best weopon for bosses due to the fact that sts hasnt really given us bosses made hard as they use to be. If the play therd cards right in the next expansion and increase the difficulty of bosses arcane sword would be useless due to its low armour and inabililty to taunt.

[nelson131]

As someone who regularly plays all 3 classes in pvp i think we were getting close to balanced. The only part of pvp that rogues were op at is 1v1. I feel like in 1v1 it took less skill to kill as a rogue then with the other classes but in clash this wasn't really the case. IMO the crit nerf was fine, but a armor nerf was a bit too much when in end game pvp all it takes is a second to die. If sts wants to make rogues die easy fine, but like others have suggested they should take away the nerf on damage. As for ren'gol elites i really don't know since i never run them because fangs are the only thing there.
Rogues were supposed to dominate in 1v1s, as that is their only use in pvp. Rogues are already almost useless in clashes anyway. Tanks are supposed to tank, mages are supposed to be dominant in clashes, rogues are supposed to be dominant in 1v1s. And now, tanks and mages who already excel at their own roles want to take away what makes rogues useful- their 1v1 ability, and have mages be tanks, aoe nuke and 1v1 nuke in 1 package. This is not balance

[will0]

Rogues were supposed to dominate in 1v1s, as that is their only use in pvp. Rogues are already almost useless in clashes anyway. Tanks are supposed to tank, mages are supposed to be dominant in clashes, rogues are supposed to be dominant in 1v1s. And now, tanks and mages who already excel at their own roles want to take away what makes rogues useful- their 1v1 ability, and have mages be tanks, aoe nuke and 1v1 nuke in 1 package. This is not balance

Correction mage are never dominant in any pvp ... we are just mana tank . AOE FB dosnt nuke nor Gale... do you play mage??? Dont even get us talk about Arc Staff charge skill its DOT damage is not even 1/8 of arc sword lava spout..

This is so funny how this thread content went all over place with all sort of wrong directions how the skills work on the different toons or you cant win mage due to inabilities... take it both way we looses 1:1 to rogues too it all depends on skills

[Zynzyn]

Correction mage are never dominant in any pvp ... we are just mana tank .

Not to sound rude but this is a blanket-comment generalizing a whole class. Mages, after the buffs to their class recently, are quite powerful in clashes as well as 1v1 now. However that is not the topic we are discussing here. In the past, many rogues, including me, did support threads that paved the way for mage buffs. We have no complaints about that. The issue is armor nerf on rogues and how it is totally unnecessary in pvp after the buffs to warriors and mages.

Hopefully sts is reading our feedback and if the reason for the nerf is PVE runs to include all classes in a party, the nerf could maybe be turned into a PVE thing only.

[will0]

Not to sound rude but this is a blanket-comment generalizing a whole class. Mages, after the buffs to their class recently, are quite powerful in clashes as well as 1v1 now. However that is not the topic we are discussing here. In the past, many rogues, including me, did support threads that paved the way for mage buffs. We have no complaints about that. The issue is armor nerf on rogues and how it is totally unnecessary in pvp after the buffs to warriors and mages.

Hopefully sts is reading our feedback and if the reason for the nerf is PVE runs to include all classes in a party, the nerf could maybe be turned into a PVE thing only.

Yes I agree with your statement apart people to blame other toon for their class was buff and they are nerf this comparison is not fair especially the one mages 'dominant' in pvp clashes... which arent half true

[Tapash Bose]

I Think Just The Rich Rogues Like Zeus Are Nervous Because Of This Client,I Mean No More Eyes And Things Like That(gems)
If You Dont Want New Update,Play As Mage Or Warrior(Simple As That).Its Your Own Choice,Dont Cry.
This Is The Balance,I Have Rogue Yea,Why Cry.
Yea,Now Mage And Rogue Have Almost The Same Armor,Why You Cry That You Dont Have Shield,Normal Mage Have 10%Dodge(Even The Most OP's One),While Normal Rogue Have 54% Dodge Stats So Yes Here Is The Balance.You Dodge Almost Every Second Hit.

What i understand from the response..rogues are only to be blamed for this nerf :)..
why we rogues always keep silent and have to be so unselfish about other classes buffs just because it is healthy for the game ..this is a bad quality u see :)
70% of warriors have over 10k hp,3-3.5K armor and easily 800 dmg with arcane sword..so why they need to tank..they will never care and attack full out..they dont have to bother about dying :)..so much for party mechanics ..loool
In the past rogues have always supported warrior buffs..and mage buffs..but look at the jubilation by warriors..it is just sick :)
And for the wise head who thinks only super rich Zeus is going to get affected need to get themself educated about the game :)
Zeus with op gear can still manage..what with average geared rogue ?Those who don't have Glintson armor? And not the money to buy and craft the whole set ? I was trying to farm fangs..but now as it turns out..I am only farming death now and given up trying..so this was the class balance the warriors are so excited about ?
Tank Rogues hv 5k hp and 1.9k armor ..bring the warriors down to that level and then ask them how good a tank they are ?
Mages need armor buff...undoubtedly..but this will make the warriors sooooooooooo sad...
I think its high time..STS should not give 3 options for a new player..why confuse them ..when warriors are the only class they are worried about ?
I am expecting Aimed shot and lightning demand form warriors very soon..so next in line is that these that these skills will be taken form the respective classes and put in warriors...good luck warriors and good bye others..:)

[Tapash Bose]

Rogue can survive with tank and mage back in season 4 when elite nord even theirs armor not good , and when 41 come where all rogue can easily solo all map with that armor...i bet all old rogue didnt complain about this armor nerf...

Those were the days when Warrior had low dmg. Now with 800 plus damage most warriors forget to tank :)

[Vixenne]

Just like in many other games, everyone wants to be Carries...Not Supports.

[Buckledown]

Excuse me, i just wanna say something about rogue.

148847
look that ss, my armor was 488 and now 413 ?
First time you reduced our damage, and now you reduced 15% armor, maybe next time you will be lowered critical too ?
look at auction some people selling that twinks gear so cheap. Even some people made decide quit from this game because they are disappointed with what happened. To play twinks need to much gold, around 20m-25m to be strong.
Do you wanna make rogue like a mage ? Our armor like a mage then. it's not fair.
Just remember, each characters has a unique, not to be equated.

[leslietheone]

It is simply not fair especially when you are in a war and warrior burst down your heal with Galen proc, while mage stun you with jord staff normal(proc)

The problem with this update is that sts didn't look at twinks when they made this changes, if you compare endgame and twink in lower lvl, you will be surprised that some warrior in twink have more damage than a lv 46 could get(ofc compare to lv and state of opponent) and you can't just kill a warr as easily in lv 10

I was in gw yesterday, 2jord proc and Galen proc was needed to get my health down to 25% less
Btw It seems like you like to compare the warr/rogue/mage, have you seen the proc on the proc on Elo bow/Galen/jord. The elorian bow is quite useless in lv 10..the Galen proc is OP that people uses galen warfare...seriously warfare... Just that shows us how powerful Galen actually is, the same story goes with Jord staff
The fact that you won't find a galen or a jord in auction and elorian bow goes for around 200-400k(lv 10) shows us again that the item was simply not "balanced" the rogue had the state but not the proc while warrior and mage have state and proc...

I hope STS and the community will open their eyes and realized that rogue in twink need the lost armor to be able to fight in pvp...I feel like I'm a mage without shield, RIP rogue twink....back to warr

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[Arachnophobik]

Excuse me, i just wanna say something about rogue.
maybe next time you will be lowered critical too ?


shhh, too soon, too soon

[Astrea]

Last 1-3 years rogues are the one who's one-shotting everyone now STS turn the tide and make rogue feel what's the feeling of getting one-shotted. LoL.

[illwilly]

shhh, too soon, too soon

Its allready been lowered, 2 less crit in passive... but for all classes, so dont really matter for rogues i know...

To OP Rogues been to strong for a while, reading forums where rogues now change to mage make it obvious if it was not before, not that i mind rogues beeing the prefered class of all that want to be strongest, makes mage and tank gear cheep and rogue gear expensive.. but Arcane legends was starting to become rogue legends, result could be 10x rogues for every tank/mage.

Balance ftw. But agree they nerfed armor maby abit yo much for rogues o.o

[Vrazicak]

So it's unfair to make your armor almost same as mage's but you can still farm them in vs on twink levels? The changes were made to balance the endgame pvp, because STS cares about endgame balance, you have chosen to be twink, so be one, if you don't like it, too bad...

[Hassan Akbar]

STOP crying the games much more balanced this way

all that is left now is to lower tank damage


rogues are never supposed to be able to withstand damage ideally hence this nerf was highly required
haters gona hate

[konafez]

Oh..

Oh the Jedi are going to feel this one (cringes)

[Gerran]

I want to say thank you for those who shared their thoughts and ideas in my thread.
I got one question for MAGES and WARRIORS.
Will Your class die or feel weaker if we got our armor back?
If yes, why? If no, then stop being an antagonist, we just want our armor back, why not just be happy for us. If you have issues regarding with your class (mage-warrior), make your own thread and try your best to get STS's attention.

[Buckledown]

It is simply not fair especially when you are in a war and warrior burst down your heal with Galen proc, while mage stun you with jord staff normal(proc)

The problem with this update is that sts didn't look at twinks when they made this changes, if you compare endgame and twink in lower lvl, you will be surprised that some warrior in twink have more damage than a lv 46 could get(ofc compare to lv and state of opponent) and you can't just kill a warr as easily in lv 10

I was in gw yesterday, 2jord proc and Galen proc was needed to get my health down to 25% less
Btw It seems like you like to compare the warr/rogue/mage, have you seen the proc on the proc on Elo bow/Galen/jord. The elorian bow is quite useless in lv 10..the Galen proc is OP that people uses galen warfare...seriously warfare... Just that shows us how powerful Galen actually is, the same story goes with Jord staff
The fact that you won't find a galen or a jord in auction and elorian bow goes for around 200-400k(lv 10) shows us again that the item was simply not "balanced" the rogue had the state but not the proc while warrior and mage have state and proc...

I hope STS and the community will open their eyes and realized that rogue in twink need the lost armor to be able to fight in pvp...I feel like I'm a mage without shield, RIP rogue twink....back to warr

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Yes, you are right. I think STS more focused on the endgame, without seeing twinks players.

[Buckledown]

So it's unfair to make your armor almost same as mage's but you can still farm them in vs on twink levels? The changes were made to balance the endgame pvp, because STS cares about endgame balance, you have chosen to be twink, so be one, if you don't like it, too bad...

I think PvP not Merely for vs, but for guildwar.

[leslietheone]

So it's unfair to make your armor almost same as mage's but you can still farm them in vs on twink levels? The changes were made to balance the endgame pvp, because STS cares about endgame balance, you have chosen to be twink, so be one, if you don't like it, too bad...
I think u got something wrong there mate
As you may know we all are equal that means that sts need to make it fair for all lvl, and now just focus on the endgame when they make such a big decision.
You can't just take 15% armor of all rogue and think it will make it balanced...for example lv 3 twink...I have no idea how u can compare lv 3 twink and endgame
The crit on endgame is WAY too OP compared to lv 10 crit(on warr)
If sts make changes like this, they would need to play each lvl in pvp and pve, and then take % armor of each lvl differently...this might seem a waste of time when they could focus on expansion, new pets etc.
BUT it is a decision that can destroy the game for twink rogue witch is simply not fair for us.....we used 15-25m on gear and now we can use our 25m gear on arlor or put it on auction for 2/3 of the price
For me(lv 10) who fight against lv 11s for the most, I find it really hard not to die now that 1 crit aimed shot (from lv 11) can basically take 40% of my health

[Hail]

I will definitely take this post into consideration the next time mages want something buffed again!! :)

[Gerran]

I feel really bad with this game changing update for Twink zone and PVE zone for ROUGE.. Sorcerer class meant to have lower armor simply because they have the most OP rooting-stunning skills + arcane shield ... Therefore, Since rog focus on single target, they should have at least mid armor between warrior-mage. Its very simple.

[greekAL]

rogues need fix for sure they cant even survive atm!!!!

[Iots]

True! Next time please make rogues 0mana 0hp to sts

[Gerran]

-READ BEFORE COMMENT-

"This thread is meant for 'ROUGES ONLY' who wants their armor back."
"NOT for WARRIORS and SORCERERS." (Please respect!!)


I made this thread to voice out our concerns and complains regarding this armor reduction. We have every rights to complain because we already invested our TIME, EFFORT and don't forget our MONEY to this game.

1. Comment down your bad experiences or anything that is related to armor nerf.
2. Explain why we should have our armor back.
3. Type " We want our armor back!"

Example;

Normally, as a pve rouge (L46), a hit from elite boss/arena boss will take 70-95% of my total hp but luckily we got potions to the rescue. Unfortunately STS has decided to banish 15-20% of our armor without any explanation which is very disappointing. So what do you expect, instant death! We ROUGES farm arena, but now it's most likely the arena farming us.

We want our armor back because its unfair.

We want our armor back!


Or you can say anything that will support our goals.

Please don't comment down anything that is not related to what this thread is meant.

We hope STS will have time to read our concerns and give us a paragraph of explanation.

[Avaree]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible. :)

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter...............
Thanks guys!

-Carapace

The above was posted on 3/18/2016 in the Itemization Updates & The New Expansion thread.

[Mel030]

I will definitely take this post into consideration the next time mages want something buffed again!! :)
Just wait,it will happen :)


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[Deathlyreaper]

I'm a Mage but I think the armour debuff on rog was too much maybe if sts add like around 100 armour that will be fine I think

[Deathlyreaper]

I'm just wondering what u meant by getting 1 hit from arena boss. Do u mean their red zones or just their hit in general

[Tapash Bose]

I will definitely take this post into consideration the next time mages want something buffed again!! :)

lovely reply..the mages forgot that rogues were the only ones to support for the buffs they got...and quite surely they think they dont need any buff in future xD..

[Tapash Bose]

Not only red ones..In elite rengol the bomb zone hopelessly bugged..all rogues need now is a 1 hit from any mob..

[Gerran]

I'm just wondering what u meant by getting 1 hit from arena boss. Do u mean their red zones or just their hit in general

Not just the red zone but those normal hit can also give instant death to us Rouge. I'm not exaggerating this but their is a big difference before the armor nerf.

[Tapash Bose]

So it's unfair to make your armor almost same as mage's but you can still farm them in vs on twink levels? The changes were made to balance the endgame pvp, because STS cares about endgame balance, you have chosen to be twink, so be one, if you don't like it, too bad...

who said only the pvp and twink rogues got affected?..Try elite rengol :)

[Astrea]

Hello, sts

Please give back our armor. First you took our dmg % from pet, Second you took our crit and now you took our Armor. I play as a rogue and i feellike im playing a mage class without damage. YES, A MAGE WITHOUT DMG. so pls give it back.

-This is coming from a twink rogue.

[Lovestro]

Its weapon problem. Lets see me a warrior what can make 1k crit on l11. When warriors was as fresh meat in pvp, they dont crying, but now on forum there are tons of crying rogues because they got a normal armor. Or u think u need armor as warrior!?😮

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[Lovestro]

In conclusion: dont playing pvp on low lvls.

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[additions]

Yeah mages are better than rogue now...

[herculeans]

I got a big question why do u guys twink!!??

(im not a pro im a noob mage with poor stats)

[Avaree]

Not only red ones..In elite rengol the bomb zone hopelessly bugged..all rogues need now is a 1 hit from any mob..


In elite misty grotto, its a wise idea to let the tank start the map, at the start I see many rogues and mages rush to the first mob only to get one hitted buy that single bomb. A warrior who properly times jugg will prevent the one hit bombs. (Before "armor nerf" one hit bombs were prevailent too :) not just now.)

Also when skipping the mobs with the giants, you greatly reduce the chance of getting axed pulled by the mob if no one skills while running through these baddies. :)

[Hulkystash]

Dont you think it was funny how rouges couldve solo arena but mages and warriors couldnt?? That doesnt seem right at all..

[additions]

Check the twinks rogue armor too low!

[Hulkystash]

Im sure they wont do changes at twink level. They will focus more on movig the game forward towards endgame.

[Astrea]

I got a big question why do u guys twink!!??

(im not a pro im a noob mage with poor stats)

Because we feel like it.

[herculeans]

Because we feel like it.

U guys chose twink just for pvp (banner) or for lb runs and shift the banner to main accounts

Sry for the off topic

[sidkhanna15]

Congrats rogues at least u have more armor than a mage . kindly spend ur skill point on str and armor passive , along with razor shield mastery.

On the brighter side atleast more rogues are playing PvE than PvP now. :p

[Legallyblonde]

Give us MORE DAMAGE so we can kill things, like elite mobs, FASTER.

Also it would be cool if more daggers were viable endgame as well.

[Tentenzz]

In planar tomb2, I usually die 3-5 times. Now, I die more than 10 times..hahah...rip ankh

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

[Seoratrek]

Hi everyone I've moved and merged multiple threads about this topic. Please be sure to post in this forum for feedback and to double check the forums to see if there is an already existing topic before creating another one. Multiple threads across multiple boards clutter the forums. In the meantime I will forward your concerns. Thanks!

[zerofort]

I don't mind the nerf just make sure u keep it balance 800dam wars is not balanced and now that us and mage have are armor so close I don't see why they need arcane shield and we don't.class balance shouldn't be just nerf ing 1 class

[Rosybuds]

Must say I was pretty shocked at this As a dagger user and always have been I consider myself a Tank Rogue as we used too be know in The P/L Days so we are in the middle of the battel with the tanks especailly at bosses I
Ive seen Tanks stand back and fight off the skeltons and whatever while in In fighting Orc king What about we wont stand a chance and we are not at a distance with bows So if your are going too reduce our Armour I hope you take into consideration for the dagger players and up the stats on both Mythic and Arcane daggers or whats the point of having daggers They Are to be in the middle of the fight just like a Tank. With Our Rogues backing us up with their bows .... PLEASE I'm Asking a Dev Too READ THIS as it makes sense unless you are giving us unlimted ankhs and Pots Thank You If You Do Read This as It must be too be Took into consideration. Thank You Again..

[ErzaSapphire]

Nerfing rogues is only fair for the other two chars. War gets to get more glory after years of havibg nothing. Mages is still the same pretty much, they should add more hp. I agree with everyone, this makes the game balanced.

I used a tank once in arena, and two rogues told me to **** off. And one of them i clearly knew was weaker than me. The only ppl i could run elites with were maged and war.

Now it wont be us war looking for pt. Rogue now needs us.

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[Tapash Bose]

Nerfing rogues is only fair for the other two chars. War gets to get more glory after years of havibg nothing. Mages is still the same pretty much, they should add more hp. I agree with everyone, this makes the game balanced.

I used a tank once in arena, and two rogues told me to **** off. And one of them i clearly knew was weaker than me. The only ppl i could run elites with were maged and war.

Now it wont be us war looking for pt. Rogue now needs us.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Who is this everyone ? Warriors only ...looool
I have come across many warriors who refuse to tank and go full agro because they have high damage..does this prove anything xD?
Some inconsequential examples should not be the basis for much huge change ..Frankly speaking good warriors are a rarity and they never have problem finding parties..
As about rogues being tanks..ok..do not rollback the nerf......Nerf the warriors to 5k hp and 2.0K armor (the same tank rogue had) had and ask them to tank..we wil see...

[Tapash Bose]

Dont begg for armor that wasnt suppose to be there in the first place... U want armor? Then the new pet is for you! :) they say they are getting hit by trucks while they hit like trains...

Agree..begging should be the sole right of warriors only..so what are u going to beg next? Aimed shot and lightning :D?

[Tapash Bose]

Use diamond jewel

how many noble diamonds will u need to make up for the loss :D?..

[Tapash Bose]

The reason for the high armour and health on a warrior is because we have to withstand heavy damage from many mobs all at once under taunt skills like jugg. And I guarantee u we get hit by more then 1.6-1.7 times more then a rogue. Dam I stand in a group of 8-10 rengol mobs and hold them back while the rogue kills the healer single. Before the nerf rogues would stand in this group and tank as a warrior does. This is all for the better in pve it has also made some pets more useful again. Example is whim. Rogues can use shadow veil instead of traps and Mage or rogue can use whim. With all the pets available in this day there as many opertunities within pts.

Well Warriors need to tank...so rogue armor needs to be nerfed...warriors should have high armor(1.6-1.7x..now 2.0-2.1x)..Agreed.(Though even before the nerf I could never stand in a mob crowd in elite rengol :D..may be my lack of skill)
So same way..warriors should not need any damage and avg dmg of a rogue should be 2.0-2.1x that of a warrior..so we will be happy with a 1600 avg dmg and lower armor...:D..

[Legallyblonde]

Must say I was pretty shocked at this As a dagger user and always have been I consider myself a Tank Rogue as we used too be know in The P/L Days so we are in the middle of the battel with the tanks especailly at bosses I
Ive seen Tanks stand back and fight off the skeltons and whatever while in In fighting Orc king What about we wont stand a chance and we are not at a distance with bows So if your are going too reduce our Armour I hope you take into consideration for the dagger players and up the stats on both Mythic and Arcane daggers or whats the point of having daggers They Are to be in the middle of the fight just like a Tank. With Our Rogues backing us up with their bows .... PLEASE I'm Asking a Dev Too READ THIS as it makes sense unless you are giving us unlimted ankhs and Pots Thank You If You Do Read This as It must be too be Took into consideration. Thank You Again..

How about instead of asking buffs only for mythic/arcane daggers they buff ALL DAGGERS so that all the rogues who cant afford Mythic/Arcane gears can still play daggers endgame as well.

[skroll]

Dont you think it was funny how rouges couldve solo arena but mages and warriors couldnt?? That doesnt seem right at all..

10000% agree with you. now rogue need us, mage and warrior.

[Gerran]

To MAGES, there is a reason why your armor is that low, its very simple you sorcerer has the most awesome terrific endless forever stunning-rooting-snaring skills plus your shield, so stop comparing your armor to us... OMG! I have seen many mages solo arena too, when in terms of survivality, mages has more chance to survive... so stop it!! Stop saying its balance we all know its not...

[yubaraj]

If you guys think mage is op, plz play it and feel it when you get instantly killed by rogues and warriors before we can charge our shield. And also feel how really hard mage have to fight to kill other class.
Do you guys really think rogue is the weakest class now because of armor nerf? I don't think so.

[Midievalmodel]

The arcane sword proc is precisely why timed run teams with a tank are now knocking records off 4-rogue teams, especially in the harder elites where quickly killing large mob pulls speeds up the run immensely. And once someone invited me (a rogue) to a party with 3 other tanks (all using the arcane sword) and I later ran with 3 mages using the arcane staff in the same map (elite wilds). The 3-tank party was faster by 1 minute. So you tell me...

I actually think using aegis at mobs and switching to arcane sword for boss is faster no? So i feel like arcane sword does help somewhat which i agree but not to the degree in which you portray it.

[Midievalmodel]

If you read what I said in my post you would see that I have been playing the game, and I was part of a team which did manage to set a timed run record, with a tank that used the arcane sword all the way to the boss and did not switch to Aegis at any time (the time was later beaten but not by much). I don't comment on these things unless I have my own experience to back it up.

Has any warrior tried using aegis instead of arcane sword for mobs when you ran for leaderboard?

[mutantninjaz]

give rouges their armor back.....

its hard for twink rouges to do pvp

fix this problem sts

[uehi]

If you guys think mage is op, plz play it and feel it when you get instantly killed by rogues and warriors before we can charge our shield. And also feel how really hard mage have to fight to kill other class.
Do you guys really think rogue is the weakest class now because of armor nerf? I don't think so.
yes i play mage warior and rogue. and yes rogue alrdy weaknest class.

[Ansari Faisal]

Mage is op it has arcane sheild in which by masteries will reduce incoming damage by 75%.!!!! That makes a mage like warrior.And yea rouge and warrior are now balanced but mage isn't decrease the rate of incoming damage absorbed by arcane sheild. Mage is the only one who is not balanced.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

[Mel030]

Rip Rogues :'(
Mages and Wars just keep getting buffed and rogues are getting nerf after nerf ...
Look at warriors:they got new jugg that is super op,arc wpn is sick(warriors with 800-900dmg)
Look at mages:they got sick hp boost(6k-6.5k),new arc shield mastery is super op,they have sick dmg boost(1-1.2k)+their crit is bigger and bigger,almost as rogues and what rogues got? Well we got:damage nerf,big armor nerf,even crit nerf(mages have same or even bigger crit),rogues became papers,no spells to protect us(except razor that sux) and thats it from me :)
Ign Vvhysoserious

Sent from my HTC Desire 310 using Tapatalk

[wangkj]

Mage is op it has arcane sheild in which by masteries will reduce incoming damage by 75%.!!!! That makes a mage like warrior.And yea rouge and warrior are now balanced but mage isn't decrease the rate of incoming damage absorbed by arcane sheild. Mage is the only one who is not balanced.

Sent from my GT-P3100 using Tapatalk

What are u kidding me? Mages are extremely squishy even with shield, not much armor nor crit. I pvped a rogue with less damage and dps and health and lost because of such a high crit. Heck that rogue one hit me with fully charged shield on

[Zynzyn]

Thanks for taking out the time to agree or disagree with this thread- all your comments were nice to read. Since sts has chosen to stay quiet and let time bring in acceptance for this drastic and unnecessary change to rogue armor, I'll choose to give up. The reason is not loss of love for the game but loss of respect. I love the game immensely but I have lost respect due to the utterly callous manner in which the rogue class has been super-nerfed and the twink rogues ignored time and again after we have spent millions in this class over the years. More than rogue armor and other stats and skills, this attitude is what needs to be modified for the health of the game. This is my last post and I might log in to chat with friends or play casually for 5 or 10 mins but as for logging in everyday to play for hours and hours actively - I am done. Almost falling in love with Halcyon Fold now.:)

[Eagle Eye229]

Everything was balanced.

That's why no warriors (very few) could run with rogues.maybe a mage could sneak in the party.Now why would that be?

Maybe you guys got used to owning and now that you must use strategy,people are quiting the game . honestly rogues shouldn't have EVERYTHING.ITS A ROLE PLAYING GAME NOT ROGUE PLAYING GAME.

[tomsawer]

It's so funny I'm reading thread after thread about rogues armor being reduced ,has anyone tried mastery yet ?.....I have! On my rogue And mage . I'm not going to give stats because I only have a few hrs. Play time on each toon but,it's not bad as everyone thinks . give this a chance. people don't run this topic in the ground.
Well , that's all I've got to say about that..hehe

[Darkquantum]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Darkquantum]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.


Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Earlingstad]

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now!


When PVP started for the first time, as you mentioned... - Warriors were OP like now because of the Windmill Glitch that sts eventually fixed.
That time was also a time when we had no Stun immunity and Mages' Freeze used to work in PVP. Yes at that time Rogues were the weakest and the other classes reigned.

I am glad you are comparing the current state to the time that PVP started. You are almost convincing us indirectly that it is back to where we began. All the changes sts had been making all this time to mould and shape PVP into a balanced enjoyable thing to do in AL, we were almost there and suddenly- it is back to day 1.

[Darkquantum]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


When PVP started for the first time, as you mentioned... - Warriors were OP like now because of the Windmill Glitch that sts eventually fixed.
That time was also a time when we had no Stun immunity and Mages' Freeze used to work in PVP. Yes at that time Rogues were the weakest and the other classes reigned.

I am glad you are comparing the current state to the time that PVP started. You are almost convincing us indirectly that it is back to where we began. All the changes sts had been making all this time to mould and shape PVP into a balanced enjoyable thing to do in AL, we were almost there and suddenly- it is back to day 1.

If you think we are back at square one you are horribly mistaken. You have also obviously terribly misinterpreted what i was saying. and if you are on the tank side of this discussion what have you to wine about? Lol seriously i thought tanks were happy now. And if your on the rouge side of the discussion im sorry to have replied at all we will just disagree

[Zeus]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk



If you think we are back at square one you are horribly mistaken. You have also obviously terribly misinterpreted what i was saying. and if you are on the tank side of this discussion what have you to wine about? Lol seriously i thought tanks were happy now. And if your on the rouge side of the discussion im sorry to have replied at all we will just disagree

So you think balance is where tanks with 5M in gear are able to beat classes that have spend tens of millions on their characters? It was balanced before, where rogue and tank could be competitive with each other. Mage was also able to competitive provided that they used gun.

[Darkquantum]

So you think balance is where tanks with 5M in gear are able to beat classes that have spend tens of millions on their characters? It was balanced before, where rogue and tank could be competitive with each other. Mage was also able to competitive provided that they used gun.
To be honest yes. I really do like the tanks having all the power now. You guys did have it before would you disagree? I plan on staying mage either way. I hate tanks always getting no kills in pvp. Means they dont play. SO MANY TANKS IN PVP NOW its great! Sorry mate i really do love it. I feel your pain tho i to over the years have spent well more than 400m. And an embarrassing amount of platinum. My pain has come and gone. And yes i do think its fair. I wish all parra gems and eyes never existed. I wish nekro was never made. For thats when the game broke. In my opinion. I like were the game is at now and werw its heading. I know what that dose to you and the money you spent but. Yes i do like it sorry.


Im actually telling my friends now "you know that crazy game i play? its fair now you should play it" because if they tryed starting any time before last few months id have disagreed. The prices the pvp i love it all again

[Gerran]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.


Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Fun and fair? Really bro? Are you kidding us? tanks and mages is getting more additions, where rouges earning more subtraction. Are you what? You are not suppose to say that.

[wangkj]

Fun and fair? Really bro? Are you kidding us? tanks and mages is getting more additions, where rouges earning more subtraction. Are you what? You are not suppose to say that.

Hey stop complaining rogues are still good. Remember back at the release of the new arcane weps? Warriors got awesome proc. Rogues got dagger buff. Now what do we mages get? We get a funny looking flashy proc that uses mana. Is that fair?

[Remiem]

We really appreciate the valuable feedback, you guys. Thank you. We realize that this update makes a major difference in how rogues are played and, as we do with all major updates, will continue to take your feedback, suggestions and ideas into consideration going forward. Definitely keep it coming.

[Morholt]

I don't think the issue is rogues getting too tanky. I think the issue is mobs not hitting hard enough.

I feel like mages/rogues/warriors have had their armor progression being fine. The problem is that warriors can have well over 3k defense. But it is useless and pointless. No map requires this. So warriors are giving up their high defense gear for high damage gear. Most warriors I see in tombs have 2.2-2.5k defense and having little issue with surviving. That's the problem...warriors are intentionally playing at near rogue level of defense.

So with warriors pretending to be rogues but with long cool down skills...of course rogues will look overpowered because their skills are meant for fast damage output. If warriors were actually gearing up for defense and mobs actually hit hard the game wouldn't need to be regressing defense.

[Rosybuds]

How about instead of asking buffs only for mythic/arcane daggers they buff ALL DAGGERS so that all the rogues who cant afford Mythic/Arcane gears can still play daggers endgame as well.
True I should have included all daggers too Was just kinda worked up !! With all ready losing 1.8mill on mythic i dont use any more then 1.5mill on Arcane daggers that I now find out wont make a difference because my armour is crap, My Apologies all daggers should be buffed but I rather they just left the Armour Alone too be honest,I did not mean too offend anyone who cannot buy Mythic for 200k or arcane daggers god know what they are sitting at now.Again My Bad And Apologies too Any other dagger user in A/L ... May We All Be Buffed together if our Armour is turned into plastic Bags.

[TW84]

So you think balance is where tanks with 5M in gear are able to beat classes that have spend tens of millions on their characters? It was balanced before, where rogue and tank could be competitive with each other. Mage was also able to competitive provided that they used gun.

Amount of gold spent is not a valid argument unless if you have a formula that also calculate amount of each char and amount of each item/whatnot is available in game. Supple vs demand. Gear prices vary. That is also why Finesse costs more than other jewels.

[TW84]

Most warriors I see in tombs have 2.2-2.5k defense and having little issue with surviving.

3k armor warriors can die like flies under right conditions in planar tombs. I don't want to run with a warrior who has less than 2,8k armor and some crowd control in party. Just sayin...

Anyone can survive if all mobs are permafrozen or stunned.

[Ardbeg]

i remember kraaken island and nordr seasons when running elite maps was a huge accomplishment for a party and it was (nearly) impossible for only one class to run the map. that is how it should be. things have moved away from that ideal a lot to the point that even the best tanks quit or used a rogue alt for pve. I have high hopes that we come to a strong team focussed pve again. Let s see how this plays out in the new maps with new gear first. one thing i am concerned with in pve is the whole scaling tactics in timerless maps. it completely counters the balance changes imho.

[Ardbeg]

3k armor warriors can die like flies under right conditions in planar tombs. I don't want to run with a warrior who has less than 2,8k armor and some crowd control in party. Just sayin...

Anyone can survive if all mobs are permafrozen or stunned.

use orc effigies. they are here for a reason.

[Eagle Eye229]

Honestly guys,this game is not pvp fueled.This game cannot stop because you dominated pvp pve as a rogue.it has to move on.All I hear is rogue complaining about how they are not #1 for pvp AND pve.You guys should be the the easiest to kill(you also kill the fastest.Fair trade).There is no such thing as a "Tank rogue",I mean that sounds ridiculous at best.Think about the game.its a ROLE PLAYING GAME.WHATS THE USE IF ONE CLASS OWNS EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME!YOUR OP HIERARCHY HAS COME TO AN END.Im sure it sucks for you rogues that spent millions on gear ect but you knew this expansion would one day come.you knew your playstyle and equip would one day come to an end.time have changed.Maybe wait till we see the new content before we lose our marbles.equip value lose is your fault.please tell me otherwise and I can explain.

Rogues don't need to have everything,so selfish.

Go warriors! No king would be alive without trusted warriors.

[soon]

We really appreciate the valuable feedback, you guys. Thank you. We realize that this update makes a major difference in how rogues are played and, as we do with all major updates, will continue to take your feedback, suggestions and ideas into consideration going forward. Definitely keep it coming.


If the intention is to make rogues use a shield skill, healing and two attack skill you should have inserter 10% damage reduction by default the ability. Rogues below lv 20 can not use it, but they were also nerf. In mastery could increase an additional 5% damage reduction, for players who are in the end game..

By the way, spend 10 skill points makes you miss on your skill you use. We need mana and health as well, it already spends 10 points in passive. The other two classes have 40/65% reduction shield, no need to spend on masterie.


you did not answer what everyone asked, 10% are stacked with the shield of nekro? If not, what has been done is that rogues are fragile and other classes kill she very easily.

[Zeus]

Amount of gold spent is not a valid argument unless if you have a formula that also calculate amount of each char and amount of each item/whatnot is available in game. Supple vs demand. Gear prices vary. That is also why Finesse costs more than other jewels.

The gold relates to the gear, so a similar geared player should be competitive with a person of also similar gear and not expect to be competitive with a player that's maxed.

[Khalleesie]

When classes are balanced, we are all united. When classes are unbalanced, we are all divided. As you can see many players are livid... This causes resentment toward other classes. STS, with respect, there has to be another way.

[Avaree]

When did you stop remembering this is a game? "If we all win it" we have nothing left to gain. I am completely satisfied with the changes. If sts reverts game back to what it was, the game will be over in a matter of months.

Adjust to the changes of armor by adding jewels that buff your nerf.

Use Orc shaman effigies... Completely free to craft and make...
They grant 5% crit and 15% armor for 15 minutes. Again completely free!! Not only do they grant this, they also give your friends ingredients and you a chance for a orc tag, or small chance of legionnaire's insignia or a ren'gol ancestral rune.

See link below
Higher armor not better (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?161680-Mob-Scaling-Findings-Higher-Armour-is-not-better&highlight=scale)


More valuable information below!



http://s10.postimg.org/g219ph0vt/Armor_Analysis.jpg



Armor
Damage Taken


0
938


400
848


585
807


600
804


850
748


935
729


1000
714


1075
698


1200
670


1275
653


1310
645


1425
619


1500
602


1555
590


1600
581


1612
578


1700
558


1745
548


1800
536


1860
522


1990
493


2137
460


2155
457


2200
447


2380
406


2520
375


2717
331


(Based on the static damage received from a certain boss in Shuyal, scaled to L41).

As part of supplementary tests, I would also like to confirm that neither the enemy's HP/armor nor its damage are scaling higher depending on if there is a warrior in party or not. With everyone in party at the same level, the mobs' difficulty only depends on the number of players in the instance, not the classes. You're welcome, warriors!

There might be another topic coming containing the exact percentages of how mob's damage, armor and HP are scaling as more players join the party. For now, as a general guideline, mobs and bosses seem to scale smoother for three players comparing to four, purely from a statistical point of view.

Bonus info: The damage reduction from both Nekro's & Scorch's shield is 40%. The difference is that Nekro's absorbs much more HP before it breaks.



Special thanks to Blipz, Ardbeg, Raregem, Shinytoy & the Pheonix guild for assisting with the tests and Kalizzaa for making an awesome chart out of the gathered data!

Hope this helps. :)

[Gerran]

Hey stop complaining rogues are still good. Remember back at the release of the new arcane weps? Warriors got awesome proc. Rogues got dagger buff. Now what do we mages get? We get a funny looking flashy proc that uses mana. Is that fair?

Excuse me!Are you okay? I can complain if I want, Each of us has the right to complain, we invested time efforts, and money here, so shut up!
If you have concerns in your class go make thread, don't come here saying non sense.

[tomsawer]

Bottom line..and to be fair to all classes ( I play all of em) each class has its perks and downfalls. I don't have to explain because we know what they are.
I see some changes being made to rogues but, I beleive IF we wait until full expansion comes out and run the new maps, we can then make suggestions for rogues ect. If needed. I say rogues because every thread addressing this issue is rogue players,so imo until expansion let's relax have fun and play!

[csyui]

Don't worry, when rogue hit Lv56, she will have op crit rate and dmg. :unconscious:

[Earlingstad]

Don't worry, when rogue hit Lv56, she will have op crit rate and dmg. :unconscious:

Can anybody disagree that besides Lv 56, AL has players who have characters actively playing at many level brackets? And PVE issues should not be mixed up with PVP. For instance, Banish was made to work only in PVE and not PVP because whichever STS dev made that decision was insightful enough to realise that what works for PVE might be horrible for the user experience in PVP. :D

We have active endgame characters for PVE/PVP and we also have twinks for PVP. This armor nerf on rogues might have been implemented with a positive intention - but let us not forget that it is in no way fair to make balance at low levels go awry for the sake of only endgame PVE.

To sum it up, the lovely solutions for the rogue armor nerf in this feedback thread are - 1.) Use Effigy 2.) Use Jewels to Buff the Nerf 3.) Use Skill Mastery. 4.) Go level up.

Here is why these solutions will not work.

1. No cannot use Effigy in PVP.

2. Cannot use Jewels to compensate for the nerf because the Armor Nerf is heavy and using that many armor jewels just means a Nerf to other stats - it is weakening rogue stats - after allowing us to spend our funds on acquiring them.

3.) Skill Mastery Cannot be used under Lv 20. Lets not even go there.

4.) Already have endgame characters. Besides if twinking is neglected and discouraged with this armor nerf to rogues, are devs implying that we should only spend and play on 1 character at 1 level rather than playing at several levels and investing on gearing up several characters? How is this move even profitable for a business somebody please enlighten us.


As PVE is the main concern of players agreeing with the armor nerf here (The Itemization thread by Remiem has some pretty good feedback too) maybe sts could keep the rogue ARMOR NERF to PVE maps only?

[acewasabi]

i may be wrong, but it seems the armor nerf is coming from a pvp perspective. i don't pvp, i am purely pve - and i think i speak for many, many rogues with no interest in pvp. this armor nerf SUCKS. i'm tired of pvp issues affecting my pve gameplay (pet nerfs/buffs in particular). there are plenty of examples of things that only apply to pvp, like rogue dmg nerf, so if armor MUST be nerfed, for heavens sake at least buff it somewhat for pve.

not saying that the struggle ain't real for my pvp rogue sisters, just that i represent a particular pve-only demographic, and can't speak to pvp.

[ilhanna]

I think more than the actual nerf itself, I am dismayed by the counterresponses to rogue's complaints to it. These threads have been divisive and unconstructive at the very least, even hostile in places. It doesn't help at all to be told to shut up, to be told we lack skills and network, to be instructed by non-rogues how to deal with the nerf, to receive insinuations that we are ignorant of the grand scheme and future of the game. There is very little support and constructive discussions on how to, to quote Carapace, play with the tools available. Instead there is an impression of gleeful vindictiveness on the part of the other two classes, and while I know those who post these comments do not in any way represent their classes, their statements go a long way to make a visit to the forums that much more unpleasant. Really made me miss the days when going to the forums means getting new ideas and strategies to try in game, getting more enlightened about the mechanics of the game that help make things easier and more fun.

[Kingofdevilz]

I play warrior in twink pvp. Even I feel that after the armour nerf rogues have become really weak and its not fun anymore as it is too easy for us as tanks.

[Darkquantum]

I think more than the actual nerf itself, I am dismayed by the counterresponses to rogue's complaints to it. These threads have been divisive and unconstructive at the very least, even hostile in places. It doesn't help at all to be told to shut up, to be told we lack skills and network, to be instructed by non-rogues how to deal with the nerf, to receive insinuations that we are ignorant of the grand scheme and future of the game. There is very little support and constructive discussions on how to, to quote Carapace, play with the tools available. Instead there is an impression of gleeful vindictiveness on the part of the other two classes, and while I know those who post these comments do not in any way represent their classes, their statements go a long way to make a visit to the forums that much more unpleasant. Really made me miss the days when going to the forums means getting new ideas and strategies to try in game, getting more enlightened about the mechanics of the game that help make things easier and more fun.
Im no doubt at least one of the people you speak of. The reason i spoke up is because i like the changes.... I play too!

Id hate to see everything that was just fixed broken and changed back due to only rouges and people that pretend to love all classes complaining. I feel the need to put in my 2 cents as well. For if sts see only people say "we want it changed back!".... it will probably happen!

Id hate that. so i speak up. Game has not been so fair in ages.
( in my opinion )

[uehi]

we need nerf mage with crit pasiv and warior with armor pasiv like rog with damage and i think balance will be back xd

[uehi]

To be honest yes. I really do like the tanks having all the power now. You guys did have it before would you disagree? I plan on staying mage either way. I hate tanks always getting no kills in pvp. Means they dont play. SO MANY TANKS IN PVP NOW its great! Sorry mate i really do love it. I feel your pain tho i to over the years have spent well more than 400m. And an embarrassing amount of platinum. My pain has come and gone. And yes i do think its fair. I wish all parra gems and eyes never existed. I wish nekro was never made. For thats when the game broke. In my opinion. I like were the game is at now and werw its heading. I know what that dose to you and the money you spent but. Yes i do like it sorry.


Im actually telling my friends now "you know that crazy game i play? its fair now you should play it" because if they tryed starting any time before last few months id have disagreed. The prices the pvp i love it all again
you like when tank have all power ;) and you play mage ;) try rogue and back here:) you see many tank because oponent for warior is only warior.

[Vixenne]

Honestly guys,this game is not pvp fueled.This game cannot stop because you dominated pvp pve as a rogue.it has to move on.All I hear is rogue complaining about how they are not #1 for pvp AND pve.You guys should be the the easiest to kill(you also kill the fastest.Fair trade).There is no such thing as a "Tank rogue",I mean that sounds ridiculous at best.Think about the game.its a ROLE PLAYING GAME.WHATS THE USE IF ONE CLASS OWNS EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME!YOUR OP HIERARCHY HAS COME TO AN END.Im sure it sucks for you rogues that spent millions on gear ect but you knew this expansion would one day come.you knew your playstyle and equip would one day come to an end.time have changed.Maybe wait till we see the new content before we lose our marbles.equip value lose is your fault.please tell me otherwise and I can explain.

Rogues don't need to have everything,so selfish.

Go warriors! No king would be alive without trusted warriors.

I'm a Rogue and I pity those selfish other rogues who take this so seriously :) Let them cry. Coz they think they own everything. I'm thankful and happier to have more teamwork with all the classes now than before.

[Darkquantum]

I'm a Rogue and I pity those selfish other rogues who take this so seriously :) Let them cry. Coz they think they own everything. I'm thankful and happier to have more teamwork with all the classes now than before.
Love your words

[Earlingstad]

I'm a Rogue and I pity those selfish other rogues who take this so seriously :) Let them cry. Coz they think they own everything.

The rogues who take this armor nerf seriously do so because they do love this game and this company and they do not wish to stop playing because of gameplay-affecting decisions influenced (even if 1%) by comments like these.

For instance, most of the rogues who are voicing out their opinions in this thread and in the Itemization thread by Remiem, are doing so with reason. They have put forward their opinion on how badly it is affecting their game-play and most of the opinions are substantiated with valid reasons. You are stating "Let them cry" - an attitude which can prove to be a hurdle to logical discussion.

Not to flame or to call you out but generally speaking, nobody is "crying" here, I do not see any whining or ranting or negative words from them. Most of their opinions are backed up by questions to the devs and reasons for how they feel and possible solutions for the issue. "Coz they think they own everything" - No we dont, why would you even generalize? If the attitude of the majority of rogues was this, then we would not have been supporting other class buffs in older threads.

I would like to ask what do you feel about some of the solutions and questions that have been brought up about this topic? Please try to elaborate why and how. Every rogue's feedback is helpful, even in disagreement, but please back it up.

[Vixenne]

The rogues who take this armor nerf seriously do so because they do love this game and this company and they do not wish to stop playing because of gameplay-affecting decisions based on comments like these.

For instance, most of the rogues who are voicing out their opinions in this thread and in the Itemization thread by Remiem, are doing so with reason. They have put forward their opinion on how badly it is affecting their game-play and most of the opinions are substantiated with valid reasons. You are stating "Let them cry" - an attitude which can prove to be a hurdle to logical discussion.

Not to flame or to call you out but generally speaking, nobody is "crying" here, I do not see any whining or ranting or negative words from them. Most of their opinions are backed up by questions to the devs and reasons for how they feel and possible solutions for the issue. "Coz they think they own everything" - No we dont, why would you even generalize? If the attitude of the majority of rogues was this, then we would not have been supporting other class buffs in older threads.

I have played this game far too long to see who knows how to reason and those who are, yes I will say it again: Crying. We have 3 classes, with each of their own purposes. Why do you think I said "They think they own everything"? Because they DO want to be everything. Never have other classes cried as this much in forums as Rogues do because they know their roles very well.

Let's just see what happens to our stats when we all cap at 56 :)

Edit:

I'm not affected by the armor nerf because for one, I am not a tank. My only job is to kill. STS has their reasons and they're trying to balance this "Rogue Legends" into Arcane Legends again. I would like to see in our game that our classes will work again, together. That's all.

[ilhanna]

I'm a Rogue and I pity those selfish other rogues who take this so seriously :) Let them cry. Coz they think they own everything. I'm thankful and happier to have more teamwork with all the classes now than before.

You seem to imply there was no team work before the nerf and that it's an acceptable solution for this. Three-class teamwork in pve was vastly improved with the new weapons, especially aegis and the arcane sword. Warriors (note the plural) are making it to the timed run leaderboard. Farming went faster, smoother with good warriors in party than in full dps party. Then the nerf.

You also seem to imply that the nerf affects only rogues. Good warriors I know who pride themselves on not having dps die in their party were scrambling to figure out how to prevent rogues from getting one shot killed. Also, every second a rogue is down is prolonging a run, putting everyone, including warrior and mage at greater risk, and extra costs.

Personally, given what Remiem and Carapace had said in response to the outrage from the rogue community, I've resigned myself to the nerf. This by no means mean I accept it, and certainly for the low level rogues this isn't a problem easily remedied (I don't pvp, but I have low level event rogues). Only I think it's better to find ways to cope with the situation rather than point fingers, name call, make blanket generalization, or other pointless gesturing.

[Kingofdevilz]

I'm a Rogue and I pity those selfish other rogues who take this so seriously :) Let them cry. Coz they think they own everything. I'm thankful and happier to have more teamwork with all the classes now than before.

I guess you were getting farmed in both 1v1 and clash by maxed out rogues. So now to stand a chance you are supporting this nerf. I bet now you are happy that you can kill those rogues who bullied you everyday in pvp. :)

[Vixenne]

I guess you were getting farmed in both 1v1 and clash by maxed out rogues. So now to stand a chance you are supporting this nerf. I bet now you are happy that you can kill those rogues who bullied you everyday in pvp. :)

Ftr, I'm a maxed out Rogue with Fortifieds and Excellent Finesse jewels and with Nekro :) PvP is something I do for fun, thanks :)

149201

[Vintje]

maybe this strategy sts for rogue to buy new pet, but i dont like this. now my rogue easy to die because armor nerf

[Vintje]

I play warrior in twink pvp. Even I feel that after the armour nerf rogues have become really weak and its not fun anymore as it is too easy for us as tanks.

thats right, rogue very easily to die. sts must restore armor rogue again

[Vintje]

rogue need back armor like before. this armor very suck

[Zeus]

Ftr, I'm a maxed out Rogue with Fortifieds and Excellent Finesse jewels and with Nekro :) PvP is something I do for fun, thanks :)

149201

If it's something you do for fun, then how can you comment on the balance of it? As for killing, it seems by your CTF KDR that you're dying more than you are killing. Anyways, I've seen your rogue a few times since MeltedIce introduced me and it's quite evident that you do not know how to play a rogue effectively. Now, that is fine as the game caters to all types of players but please do not offer advice in an area where you are clearly inexperienced about.

Before this nerf, tanks were still very much needed in PvP. Simply put, all rogues in PvP would be death for that rogue team. It's very easy to combat it. Thus, it does not make them OP or extremely tanky. A balanced team has and always will be the strongest (except for the small time frame when 3 mages were more OP than including a rogue in the set up). Although, with this latest armor nerf...rogue isn't even needed in a PvP setting anymore. Sorcerers do the job just as well and survive a lot longer.

P.S: I do not mean to offend you, I am just simply stating that poor feedback is what causes developers to be confused on what to do in the first place.

[Vixenne]

If it's something you do for fun, then how can you comment on the balance of it? As for killing, it seems by your CTF KDR that you're dying more than you are killing. Anyways, I've seen your rogue a few times since MeltedIce introduced me and it's quite evident that you do not know how to play a rogue effectively. Now, that is fine but please do not offer advice in an area where you are clearly inexperienced about.

I do not mean to offend you, I am just simply stating that poor feedback is what causes developers to be confused on what to do in the first place.

None taken. In CTF that I understand since I rarely and only play there with friends :)

[Rosybuds]

i may be wrong, but it seems the armor nerf is coming from a pvp perspective. i don't pvp, i am purely pve - and i think i speak for many, many rogues with no interest in pvp. this armor nerf SUCKS. i'm tired of pvp issues affecting my pve gameplay (pet nerfs/buffs in particular). there are plenty of examples of things that only apply to pvp, like rogue dmg nerf, so if armor MUST be nerfed, for heavens sake at least buff it somewhat for pve.

not saying that the struggle ain't real for my pvp rogue sisters, just that i represent a particular pve-only demographic, and can't speak to pvp.
Thank You Thank You Thank You .... You took the words right out of my Mouth Both are diferent and as So Should be treated So....Wonder what would happen if every Rogue decided for One Week or Two Weeks in PvP & PVE Not play as rogue Wonder how the game would fair out those two Weeks. ( Trade Union For Rogues Join up No Fee's stick together Solidarity for Rogues) Anyone want The Position for Trade Union Leader who shall speak for all rogues Would have too be weekly meeting too hear all opinions as their are Obviously one complaints from 2 differenet types of Rogue Players PvP & PVE Ive never played PVP in A/L always PVE As My Sister above has mentioned. Lmao Trade Union is a joke But I Wonder a game with just mages & Tanks for 1,2 weeks :hopelessness::concern::disillusionment::emptiness ::crushed::cower::miserable::fatigue::distress::em ptiness:


:surprise::triumphant::untroubled:
I did mean what I said about PvP & PvE and In total Agreement with Acewasabi The Smiley's were just a joke .... I mean how could you have a game with No Rogues !!!
:smiley_simmons::banana::banana::banana::banana::a pplause:

[uehi]

Ftr, I'm a maxed out Rogue with Fortifieds and Excellent Finesse jewels and with Nekro :) PvP is something I do for fun, thanks :)

149201

Sure Pvp is something for fun, You can go naked in pvp for fun i do it when im boring . but point is ppl with the same items, gear at the same lev can fight. not only showing panties. Before nerf balans is perfekt. alrdy we only waiting for updates ;) = where arc ring 2h sword dagers pendant eye and para =rip

[Shaker Ida]

good day everyone

I want to discuss this armor nerf thing which is really annoying

Some says that rouges became tanky how come if rouges used to get 1 hit by bosses and mini bosses ... well thank you now rouges dies from a normal mob hit ( talking about elite maps )

Thats a short thing about pve


Lets get it to pvp

Lately rouges got nerfed in pvp by damage and tanks didnt

This season tanks got a really ammmazong weapon which made the rule pvp same for mages unlike rouges daggers which totally sucks

From my sight i dont think that armor nerf was needed cause tanks had jug buffed and mages got shield buffed so that made them way better and made balance and both got nice weapons and damage

So for rouges to handle the jug and arcane sword proc they need that armor back cause now its really funny proc and in 5 sec rouge is dead

Same for mages with rouge 1hit lol they have over 1.1k damage i dont think that 1.6k armor can handle 1 combo from a mage



Well myself is a rouge and i have a tank (using my tank after this nerf lol )


Well again good day everyone and nice to share stuff with you

Hoping sts would fix this or test it





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