Bear in PVP are under powered

[SoShaan]

This is not a suggestion.

Fix Bear by removing any damage incoming from outside its reach. Bird and Mage can kill a bear before it can even get a lock.

Fix it.. I shouldnt have to ask this many times

[Simnar]

lmao try a dex bear buddy

[SoShaan]

Try a dex bear?

I dont want to use a bow. Its unnatural for a bear to use a bow.

its like stealing from old people, or being on facebook. Sure it works, but can you really ever have any... self respect?

[Simnar]

Try a dex bear?

I dont want to use a bow. Its unnatural for a bear to use a bow.

its like stealing from old people, or being on facebook. Sure it works, but can you really ever have any... self respect?

lmao i dont need to respect myself thats what other ppl are for u sir or maa'm are a funny person

[SoShaan]

other than the spelling. Self respect and respect from others, are nothing alike.

one is no substitute for the other


but I thank ya friend

[Twinkman]

If u dont like bow than use talon and shield.. But if not that either.. Than enjoy getting owned :)

[Simnar]

If u dont like bow than use talon and shield.. But if not that either.. Than enjoy getting owned :)

sad knowing thats the truth lol

[Ellyidol]

Under-powered, yes. Disadvantaged, yes. Very unlikely to win, yes. Impossible, no.

No damage outside of melee range is insane though! Nothing can touch us.

IMO (in end-game pvp at least), bears are only extremely disadvantaged because of the range. Give bears something other than Beckon to close that gap, and we will definitely do so much better.

Bears already have the biggest problem on Hit %, thus making Beckon (our only skill to combat the range of birds/mages) extremely reliant on luck. Luck that it hits/crits and luck that the opponent doesn't dodge it.

Although going bow/talon bear is a nice compromise, it doesn't fully make sense that we HAVE to rather than if we WANT to. Birds don't need to go war bird to win, mages don't need to go pally/dexchantress to win, why should bears need to go bow?

Bears already have the need, the must, to have almost dual spec stats. No pure str bear will be close to successful in pvp. Birds can stay pure dex, mages can stay pure int, sure, a bear can, but watch him stand alone and slash the air while Beckon misses majority of the time.

[Kraze]

Eh the bears fine IMO I enjoy using mine in Ctf and have no complaints

[Ellyidol]

Eh the bears fine IMO I enjoy using mine in Ctf and have no complaints

CTF is the most manageable because of the numerous numbers of corners. eg, the range between archers/mages vs bears are lowered a lot if the bear knows how to use the corners.

But, maps such as forest fight or any map that has a decent "hall" where a bear vs archer/mage can happen, although a bear win isn't impossible, the bear must be extremely skilled versus the opponent. I've seen fights where the bear literally does NOT get close to the bird/mage at all, all they do is the root/freeze+fire combo, and the bear just stands there doing nothing.

I am not complaining at all :) I have had enough times where my bear does more than necessary for the team to win, however the ability for that to do so, in all honesty and boasting aside, is very hard to do so.

CTF (Rockwall Fort) is the easiest for a bear to work with a team (pull all to a wall, short distance), but all the rest of the PvP arenas provide a different (usually) respawn point for the bears, and more times than not, it is almost (note almost) impossible for a bear to kill alone, without the help of others.

I have tested the builds between full Attack Bear, Bellow Set, +48 damage to base and skill damage at least. Although it's really easy to kill (I've killed birds/mages even without using Beckon) the chance of dying all lies on the Dodge %, since Beckon is a Dodge + Attack Damage set.

Bears already have the most reliant on odds character. Chance for Hit % to work (bears already have the hardest time balancing Hit %), not only for Beckon, but each individual Slash and debuff (Hell Scream + Crushing Blow). Face a bear who gets Hell Scream + Crushing Blow on you, I can almost guarantee you that you will not be able to take it down.

That being said, Hit %/ Crit % is arguably the most important stat for ANY bear. Even for Dex/Bow bears. My str (fortified) bear can take them as long as my Hell Scream and Crushing Blow lands. Their normal attacks, although the highest normal attack in the game, deal the lowest possible damage because of my debuffs (IF they hit).

[Zeus]

CTF is the most manageable because of the numerous numbers of corners. eg, the range between archers/mages vs bears are lowered a lot if the bear knows how to use the corners.

But, maps such as forest fight or any map that has a decent "hall" where a bear vs archer/mage can happen, although a bear win isn't impossible, the bear must be extremely skilled versus the opponent. I've seen fights where the bear literally does NOT get close to the bird/mage at all, all they do is the root/freeze+fire combo, and the bear just stands there doing nothing.

I am not complaining at all :) I have had enough times where my bear does more than necessary for the team to win, however the ability for that to do so, in all honesty and boasting aside, is very hard to do so.

CTF (Rockwall Fort) is the easiest for a bear to work with a team (pull all to a wall, short distance), but all the rest of the PvP arenas provide a different (usually) respawn point for the bears, and more times than not, it is almost (note almost) impossible for a bear to kill alone, without the help of others.

I have tested the builds between full Attack Bear, Bellow Set, +48 damage to base and skill damage at least. Although it's really easy to kill (I've killed birds/mages even without using Beckon) the chance of dying all lies on the Dodge %, since Beckon is a Dodge + Attack Damage set.

Bears already have the most reliant on odds character. Chance for Hit % to work (bears already have the hardest time balancing Hit %), not only for Beckon, but each individual Slash and debuff (Hell Scream + Crushing Blow). Face a bear who gets Hell Scream + Crushing Blow on you, I can almost guarantee you that you will not be able to take it down.

That being said, Hit %/ Crit % is arguably the most important stat for ANY bear. Even for Dex/Bow bears. My str (fortified) bear can take them as long as my Hell Scream and Crushing Blow lands. Their normal attacks, although the highest normal attack in the game, deal the lowest possible damage because of my debuffs (IF they hit).

This is true. Bear PvP requires extraordinary skill and timing. My 56 bear Bodyguardz has a tough time with birds, but has figured out a way around the hit percent gap (104-110 Hit) while still maintaining 167 armor and 25+ dodge. So, it's possible, but like Elly said; it is very difficult and requires one to have full knowledge on their class.

[Phoenixking]

This is true. Bear PvP requires extraordinary skill and timing. My 56 bear Bodyguardz has a tough time with birds, but has figured out a way around the hit percent gap (104-110 Hit) while still maintaining 167 armor and 25+ dodge. So, it's possible, but like Elly said; it is very difficult and requires one to have full knowledge on their class.It might just be me but bears are beast i can kill some but there are others that i can barely use a skilla and i drop idk if they have dual spec stats but a pure bear needs something better beckon hits 99% or another beckon like skill or the game is technaclly unblalances

[Ellyidol]

This is true. Bear PvP requires extraordinary skill and timing. My 56 bear Bodyguardz has a tough time with birds, but has figured out a way around the hit percent gap (104-110 Hit) while still maintaining 167 armor and 25+ dodge. So, it's possible, but like Elly said; it is very difficult and requires one to have full knowledge on their class.

You have to catch me up on this :)

Sometimes, I find a way around dodge/my Hit %, but that never works on seasoned PvP'ers, I remember your names :)

[Sun]

The thing with bears is that they only have one gap closer...if it succeeds, you win. If it fails, you lose. (This might not be necessarily true...just a hypothetical). Birds and mages have multiple knockbacks and snares to keep melee off of them and stay a comfortable distance away. But bears have nothing but beckon to rely on. They need something to fall back on, like a weapon toss skill that slows the target's movement speed, or a charge ability that quickly moves the bear to its target.

[NECROREAPER]

They need something to fall back on, like a weapon toss skill that slows the target's movement speed, or a charge ability that quickly moves the bear to its target.

This

It's been recommended many times before, especially the charge or rush ability. IMO it'd balance the game very nicely, but then what new skill would mages and birds get? It'd have to be something to counter the new bear ability or at least be equivalent to it. I mean either way we wouldn't know how well things would play out until they actually implement something but as things stand right now, bears are heavily disadvantaged, and I think Elly hit every nail on the head in explaining how so.

[nazgulking]

I agree on every point guys, we need to replace one of our damage dealers abilities with a gap-closing ability IMHO.

[Ellyidol]

The thing with bears is that they only have one gap closer...if it succeeds, you win. If it fails, you lose. (This might not be necessarily true...just a hypothetical). Birds and mages have multiple knockbacks and snares to keep melee off of them and stay a comfortable distance away. But bears have nothing but beckon to rely on. They need something to fall back on, like a weapon toss skill that slows the target's movement speed, or a charge ability that quickly moves the bear to its target.

Yes, exactly and simply right.

I agree, we need something that closes the gap other than Beckon. The devs implemented an animation for our characters to do backflips, so a charge shouldn't be that far away :p

PS. Is it me, or is my 3rd slash not used at all anymore after GCD?

[Darkfader]

One word, beckon.

[Ellyidol]

One word, beckon.

If you bother reading through the thread, maybe you'd understand that we actually use that skill too.

Try it. Beckon a bird/mage, if it misses, try to stay alive. If it hits, see if you can kill them in one go. If you can do the latter 90% of the time, congratulations, you are the best bear I've met.

[Sun]

This

It's been recommended many times before, especially the charge or rush ability. IMO it'd balance the game very nicely, but then what new skill would mages and birds get? It'd have to be something to counter the new bear ability or at least be equivalent to it. I mean either way we wouldn't know how well things would play out until they actually implement something but as things stand right now, bears are heavily disadvantaged, and I think Elly hit every nail on the head in explaining how so.

No, I don't think birds and mages would need a new skill. I would think of this more as a "fix" for bears in pvp rather than a buff. Birds and mages already have several counters to melee damage (Frostbite, Repulse Shot, Firestorm, Thorn Roots, Ice Storm..just to name a few). This would bring about a more equal playing field, and would force all classes to choose the appropriate moment to use their gap closer/snare/knockback, instead of just spamming every skill as it comes off cooldown like whack a mole.

As a side note...devs, Ellyidol is considered by many top level players as one of the best bears in pvp. You should realize that when you have the best players in favor of a change like this, its not just QQ.

[Ellyidol]

No, I don't think birds and mages would need a new skill. I would think of this more as a "fix" for bears in pvp rather than a buff. Birds and mages already have several counters to melee damage (Frostbite, Repulse Shot, Firestorm, Thorn Roots, Ice Storm..just to name a few). This would bring about a more equal playing field, and would force all classes to choose the appropriate moment to use their gap closer/snare/knockback, instead of just spamming every skill as it comes off cooldown like whack a mole.

Agree, IMO, no offense to any bird/mage, spamming skills is most effective on these two, more so on birds.

A bear spam skills, watch him slash air :(


As a side note...devs, Ellyidol is considered by many top level players as one of the best bears in pvp. You should realize that when you have the best players in favor of a change like this, its not just QQ.

Thanks, but I doubt I'm one of the best in pvp. And the devs have read this, I'm almost sure, hope they take action too :)

[Ellyidol]

And the devs have read this, I'm almost sure, hope they take action too :)

Possible request for a dev's say in this?

If pvp (bear) balance is actually in mind or if we should consider bears to be the least favored among all three characters? Pvp and pve.