With regards to the rogue armor nerf

[Lawpvp]

The point of this thread is not to complain, not to start a flame war, but to address the clear deficiencies sts has with regards to balance between the 3 classes. Im 17 and could do a better job designing balance changes than anything they have put in place and im sure a significant portion of the arlor community could do the same. Yes i know many threads have been made regarding this issue but ive ranted to in game friends enough about it that I figured i would put my 2 cents in.(sorry in advance for the great length and saying tanks instead of warriors over and over)

Ive been playing at lvl 17 pvp for over 2 years, primarily rogue but ive played the other 2 classes aswell. In addition i did some 46 pvp with a tank but ill be addressing that later. Since i started playing as a twink warriors were by and far the strongest class in twink pvp and that remains true today. What truly brought rogues and mages more in line with warriors was the buff to nekro. For the past few months before the rogue armor nerf lvl 17 had never been more balanced. All classes could beat all classes in vs, atleast 1 mage and rogue were always wanted for a clash, and all classes had the potential to be significant in all aspects of pvp, atleast for my lvl.

Before I state where I believe sts has made their mistakes i'd like to establish some criteria for what could be considered "balance" in pvp. From a clash perspective, I believe that all classes should be desireable without 2 classes overshadowing the third. That being said, i do recognize that tanks will always be more desireable with atleast 2-3 tanks being preferable only 1-2 of each of the other classes may be needed. From a vs perspective, I believe that all classes should be competitive with each other, while one class may have a slight advantage over another, they should be at a slight disadvantage to the third.

While the armor nerf in addition to other changes have devastated rogues across all lvls, twink pvp has been hurt even more so due to the blanket changes that sts applies to all levels when they only need to be applied to a select few. For example, the first change that irritated me was when juggernaut was buffed to grant 65% dmg reduction. While i will admit this change was definitely needed for endgame as tanks were dying too often through jugg, there was 0 reason to have this change apply to low lvls. In the time i played a lvl 18 tank, i used juggernaut for a shortwhile and i could survive 1v5 for 10 seconds without juggernaut breaking while the rest of my team regrouped. For a long time twinks were even considered noobs for using juggernaut because it took 0 skill in proper tanking to simply become invincible for the duration. Before the juggernaut buffs my guild and I were able to farm 5 tanks if we had the proper line up, nowadays, forget about it. 4/5 tanks are running around with juggernaut because it absurdly overpowered at twink lvls. Sometimes we cant even kill 2-3 tanks before the rest of their team rejoins because juggernaut reduces my 1k crits to a meager 400 or lower.

After some time however ive been able to get over that, as boring as it can make clashes sometimes when people just stack tanks. What threw me over the edge, and many other rogues players was the blanket nerf to rogues armor. What frustrates me most about this change is the pitiful reasoning sts has used to justify it. Bear with me as i tear it apart piece by piece.



Class Balance

+ Rogue Armor Reduced: Over time, rogues have become much tankier than originally intended. In this update, Rogue armor attributes have been reduced across the board to bring them in line with the class balance design in-game. Rogues will no longer be tankier than Warriors, but will still have more armor that Sorcerers. For Rogue players who value those armor attributes, you'll want to consider putting your Skill Mastery points into Razor Shield which will give you up to 10% damage reduction.


Over time signifies that rogues didnt used to be tankier than intended. In other words, at previous caps and lower lvls rogues tankyness was fine yet sts chooses to nerf rogues across all levels anyways. And here is the real kicker "rogues will no longer be tankier than warriors" WHAT??? ARE U CRAZY??? Sts please show me a lvl 46 rogue(the cap at the time of the change) with 3000 armor, or 9000 health, or 65% dmg reduction from a single skill. This shows a clear lack of knowledge regarding the state of the game. Then the suggestiont they come up with as compensation is to put 10 points into razor shield mastery for 10% dmg reduction. Minimum of 11 points for 10% dmg reduction compared to 2 points for 65% dmg reduction, this is what u call balance sts? And whats ur proposition for twinks? Nothing because you people didnt think this through at all.

Whether this nerf was intended to bring about balance from a pvp or pve perspective, either way it was unintelligent, irrational, and unjustified. If this was from a pve perspective because rogues were the most favored class and tanks the least favored, nerfing rogues was not the fix because it still leaves tanks in just as bad a state as they were before. In fact, tanks were even speeding up elite runs and making it onto the lb for timed runs in the days preceding the rogue armor nerf. The real solution was not to nerf other classes in an attempt to force people to play tanks, but to buff tanks such that they were once again desireable. And how could that be achieved? Hmm idk, maybe fixing the taunt system that has been atrocious for years or developing maps with mobs that actually require a tank to be able to complete it. In the time i spent playing pocket legends before the days of arlor i spent a fair amount of time farming the hardest bosses at lvl 66. I can safely say that a full bird(the dex class) lineup was simply unfathomable, the thought would never have even crossed my mind. As the dex class, I almost never ran a map without atleast 1 enchantress(int) and a bear(str) along with me because a full dex lineup would have been demolished by the bosses, if not the mobs themselves.

If this nerf was from a pvp perspective, tanks were already the overpowered class in pvp at endgame and at twinks. More than 1 rogue was almost never preferred over a mage or an additional tank. 1v1 tank vs rogue could go either way at twinks and at endgame. While i cant attest to the status of mage in 1v1 at endgame, as for lvl 17, mages could beat both tanks(yes, tanks)and rogues in 1v1. After the nerf, i havent played much endgame since but from my twinking experience and what i have gathered from thoughts by endgame rogues, rogues are now by and far the weakest pvp class in the game.

The result of the nerf: despite being the single target dmg class, i can no longer beat equally geared/skilled mages/tanks in 1v1(yah i still beat well geared tanks who r clueless but that is because they miss 3/4 hits and cant heal properly). I havent even 1v1ed a well geared mage since the nerf because i know ill be obliterated. I have seen more 4-5 tank lineups with maybe 1 mage, and sometimes 3 warrior 2 mages, but rarely do i see rogues in 5v5s anymore. Countless twink rogues have quit rogue and switched classes quit the game alltogether, just check the auction house and u will see tons of para rogue items. Check the traders market, for every thread someone is buying rogue gear there are 6 threads to sell rogue gear. There is literally 0 reason to play rogue at twinks over the other 2 classes.

THE SHEER FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING ROGUE SHOULD SERVE AS FLASHING RED LIGHTS THAT U MESSED SOMETHING UP. STS OPEN YOUR EYES.

As for endgame, while i havent had much experience as a rogue, ive had a discussion with zeus(who needless to say is no slouch of a rogue and undoubtfully is knowledgable about the game) regarding this issue and he has expressed that he has to be afraid of tanks with arc sword and little else in the way of gear because all a tank has to do to be successful is mindlessly spam autos to get a proc, use jugg to be invincible, and pull someone into the procs for an ez kill against rogues with far superior and more valuable gear. Many other rogues have expressed similar opinions, hence the vast number of threads regarding the armor nerf.

And if sts was going to nerf rogues, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD U NERF THEIR ARMOR??? Nerf what is overpowered about the class not what is average. And what is overpowered about rogues? AIMED SHOT, the most overpowered skill in the game, still a moot point given the current state rogues. But nerfing aimed shot would atleast have been justified and not ruined rogues status in pve. Mobas like Leage of Legends, Dota 2, Smite, all have dozens of characters that have to balance and when certain characters become overpowered, they surely dont go about bringing balance by nerfing the worst skills of those characters, they directly nerf what is overpowered about those characters. Spacetime studios, u have 3 characters to choose from, and u still have worse balance than mobas with 75+.

While my issues with the armor nerf are primarily from a pvp perspective, even if the armor nerf was good for the balance of pve(which ive already said it wasnt the right way to go about it but i cant say if it has helped balance or not) it is not justified to sacrifice the balance of pvp for the sake of pve. This game would have died long ago had it not been for the pvp aspect.

Now ill address some of the responses ive seen on other threads regarding the rogue armor nerf:

For those who would say rogue had their time to be overpowered, now its time for tanks. This is ignorant and pays no attention to the balance of the game. And twink rogues have never been overpowered, tanks have always been overpowered. So how is it justified to tilt that balance even more so in favor of tanks. For those who would say this game wasnt meant to have twinks, twinks were even a part of pocket legends. Sts would not have added an option to disable if everyone was supposed to lvl to the cap. And the point of this game is entertainment, if people find more joy in pvp at lower lvls than endgame, they are entitled to pursue those opportunities. For those who would say rogues can now feel whats its like for mages, just...no. Ofc a mage is good as dead without a shield, but so is rogue, even before the armor nerf i could 2 combo any lvl 17 rogue, i even 1 comboed a rogue with 2000 health before the nerf. Not to mention that mages have 2 shields and can bye nye unstunnable when cycled well(i realize shields dont last as long at endgame but mages still have 2 while having similar armor to rogues). For those who would say im just complaining because my maxed out rogue isnt incredibly strong at twinks anymore, i am upset about it but that doesnt change that rogues are still the weakest class. I spent tons of time and gold to obtain a 3 para 7 eye 1 fort nature set which i am very proud of, my stats were perfect before the nerf. Now my rogue is worthless compared to mages or tanks despite the effort and money i have put into it. And maxed out mages and tanks could be just as dominate in twinks.

For those who say that rogues arent meant to be a little bit tanky, they are meant to do dmg like a glass cannon, then why is sts nerfing our dmg. If u truly think this is how rogues should be, then lets remove the dmg debuff and see if anyone enjoys pvp then, ill gladly 2 combo tanks with 3500 health and 900 armor at lvl 17. And if rogues arent meant to be a little but tanky while doing dmg, why do tanks have invulnerability on top of the absurd dmg they are able to do with the arcane sword(yes i know its bugged but b4 the bug and once the bug is fixed it will still do absurd dmg). Id be glad to have aimed shot scaling reduced so that rogues could have some of their tankiness given back to them

Seeing as how ive shown this change had nothing to do with balance, my theory and a theory i know others share is that this nerf was for the sake of $$$$. Dont u find it rather convenient that just as rogue armor gets nerfed, a new pet that only drops in locks which are opened with plat, bought with $$$$, is released with more armor than any other pet, 228. Isnt it interesting that sts then announces a new mythic weapon with a proc that gives 75% dmg reduction(but then makes u completely useless since u cant use any skills, cant even heal myself and the point of a rogue is to do dmg with skills like wtf). Seems like they are unjustly nerfing rogues and providing 1 subpar alternative that rogues have to pay for with $$$$ or someone else spends the money and rogues spend the gold to still end up weaker than before and have to give up the 40% dmg reduction of nekro.

And on top of rogues being trashed, having dmg reduced in pvp by over 20%, armor reduced by over 16%, sts then buffs mages guns to do absurd dmg on crits through autos as zeus has expressed on another thread and given twink mages overpowered guns from crates(did rogues even get a crate weapon? I havent seen anything) sealed rogues fate as being useless in twink pvp, mages have more survivability, curse, team heals, restore mana, can still crit hard on lightning, do tons of dmg on autos, while rogues are simply food waiting to be eaten. Not to mention that mages are now able to get a mythic ring with dmg, putting them even further ahead of rogues, PLUS GALEN MAUL, THE MOST OVERPOWERED WEAPON IN THE HISTORY OF TWINKS HAS BEEN BUGGED SINCE ITS RELEASE and procs multiple times at once and has hidden armor reduction on it. My friend 1 comboed a rogue(a real twink not a random noob) AT LEVEL 13 AS A TANK AND HE DIDNT EVEN PROC. <<<this alone shows that rogues are far too squishy now. I could even be 2 comboed by tanks before the armor nerf from 1 stun and proc from galen maul, but u wont see any twink rogues 2 combo a tank.

The last thing that really ticks me off about this is the blatant disregard and lack of response from sts despite the countless threads and comments that this needs to be looked at. If u think that being silent and allowing time to let this sink in with players, u are dead wrong. I will not be silent about this until i have an answer. Either let us know that this is being looked at and possible changes may be made, or this definitively not be looked at whatsoever so i, like many others, can give up hope in sts and quit playing rogue, if not the game alltogether.

For those who made it through this essay i appreciate your time. For those who still think im wrong, pls share what u think and if its valid i may concede that, but the more likely case is ill have to point out why your wrong. To those who agree with me, show your support and lets save rogues before all rogues have dissappeared.

And lastly to sts, give us anything u have to say regarding this issue or u will lose yet another paying customer, as u have lost many already and will lose many more down the road.

[Zeus]

Amen.


I am considering retiring my rogue because it is no longer playable.

[Tentenzz]

I feel u bro.. totally agree with this.

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

[Binlaggin]

Cliff notes please. Not being smart--and I'm interested in your thoughts--just too lazy to read

[Wiz8]

The point of this thread is not to complain, not to start a flame war, but to address the clear deficiencies sts has with regards to balance between the 3 classes. Im 17 and could do a better job designing balance changes than anything they have put in place and im sure a significant portion of the arlor community could do the same. Yes i know many threads have been made regarding this issue but ive ranted to in game friends enough about it that I figured i would put my 2 cents in.(sorry in advance for the great length and saying tanks instead of warriors over and over)

Ive been playing at lvl 17 pvp for over 2 years, primarily rogue but ive played the other 2 classes aswell. In addition i did some 46 pvp with a tank but ill be addressing that later. Since i started playing as a twink warriors were by and far the strongest class in twink pvp and that remains true today. What truly brought rogues and mages more in line with warriors was the buff to nekro. For the past few months before the rogue armor nerf lvl 17 had never been more balanced. All classes could beat all classes in vs, atleast 1 mage and rogue were always wanted for a clash, and all classes had the potential to be significant in all aspects of pvp, atleast for my lvl.

Before I state where I believe sts has made their mistakes i'd like to establish some criteria for what could be considered "balance" in pvp. From a clash perspective, I believe that all classes should be desireable without 2 classes overshadowing the third. That being said, i do recognize that tanks will always be more desireable with atleast 2-3 tanks being preferable only 1-2 of each of the other classes may be needed. From a vs perspective, I believe that all classes should be competitive with each other, while one class may have a slight advantage over another, they should be at a slight disadvantage to the third.

While the armor nerf in addition to other changes have devastated rogues across all lvls, twink pvp has been hurt even more so due to the blanket changes that sts applies to all levels when they only need to be applied to a select few. For example, the first change that irritated me was when juggernaut was buffed to grant 65% dmg reduction. While i will admit this change was definitely needed for endgame as tanks were dying too often through jugg, there was 0 reason to have this change apply to low lvls. In the time i played a lvl 18 tank, i used juggernaut for a shortwhile and i could survive 1v5 for 10 seconds without juggernaut breaking while the rest of my team regrouped. For a long time twinks were even considered noobs for using juggernaut because it took 0 skill in proper tanking to simply become invincible for the duration. Before the juggernaut buffs my guild and I were able to farm 5 tanks if we had the proper line up, nowadays, forget about it. 4/5 tanks are running around with juggernaut because it absurdly overpowered at twink lvls. Sometimes we cant even kill 2-3 tanks before the rest of their team rejoins because juggernaut reduces my 1k crits to a meager 400 or lower.

After some time however ive been able to get over that, as boring as it can make clashes sometimes when people just stack tanks. What threw me over the edge, and many other rogues players was the blanket nerf to rogues armor. What frustrates me most about this change is the pitiful reasoning sts has used to justify it. Bear with me as i tear it apart piece by piece.



Over time signifies that rogues didnt used to be tankier than intended. In other words, at previous caps and lower lvls rogues tankyness was fine yet sts chooses to nerf rogues across all levels anyways. And here is the real kicker "rogues will no longer be tankier than warriors" WHAT??? ARE U CRAZY??? Sts please show me a lvl 46 rogue(the cap at the time of the change) with 3000 armor, or 9000 health, or 65% dmg reduction from a single skill. This shows a clear lack of knowledge regarding the state of the game. Then the suggestiont they come up with as compensation is to put 10 points into razor shield mastery for 10% dmg reduction. Minimum of 11 points for 10% dmg reduction compared to 2 points for 65% dmg reduction, this is what u call balance sts? And whats ur proposition for twinks? Nothing because you people didnt think this through at all.

Whether this nerf was intended to bring about balance from a pvp or pve perspective, either way it was unintelligent, irrational, and unjustified. If this was from a pve perspective because rogues were the most favored class and tanks the least favored, nerfing rogues was not the fix because it still leaves tanks in just as bad a state as they were before. In fact, tanks were even speeding up elite runs and making it onto the lb for timed runs in the days preceding the rogue armor nerf. The real solution was not to nerf other classes in an attempt to force people to play tanks, but to buff tanks such that they were once again desireable. And how could that be achieved? Hmm idk, maybe fixing the taunt system that has been atrocious for years or developing maps with mobs that actually require a tank to be able to complete it. In the time i spent playing pocket legends before the days of arlor i spent a fair amount of time farming the hardest bosses at lvl 66. I can safely say that a full bird(the dex class) lineup was simply unfathomable, the thought would never have even crossed my mind. As the dex class, I almost never ran a map without atleast 1 enchantress(int) and a bear(str) along with me because a full dex lineup would have been demolished by the bosses, if not the mobs themselves.

If this nerf was from a pvp perspective, tanks were already the overpowered class in pvp at endgame and at twinks. More than 1 rogue was almost never preferred over a mage or an additional tank. 1v1 tank vs rogue could go either way at twinks and at endgame. While i cant attest to the status of mage in 1v1 at endgame, as for lvl 17, mages could beat both tanks(yes, tanks)and rogues in 1v1. After the nerf, i havent played much endgame since but from my twinking experience and what i have gathered from thoughts by endgame rogues, rogues are now by and far the weakest pvp class in the game.

The result of the nerf: despite being the single target dmg class, i can no longer beat equally geared/skilled mages/tanks in 1v1(yah i still beat well geared tanks who r clueless but that is because they miss 3/4 hits and cant heal properly). I havent even 1v1ed a well geared mage since the nerf because i know ill be obliterated. I have seen more 4-5 tank lineups with maybe 1 mage, and sometimes 3 warrior 2 mages, but rarely do i see rogues in 5v5s anymore. Countless twink rogues have quit rogue and switched classes quit the game alltogether, just check the auction house and u will see tons of para rogue items. Check the traders market, for every thread someone is buying rogue gear there are 6 threads to sell rogue gear. There is literally 0 reason to play rogue at twinks over the other 2 classes.

THE SHEER FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING ROGUE SHOULD SERVE AS FLASHING RED LIGHTS THAT U MESSED SOMETHING UP. STS OPEN YOUR EYES.

As for endgame, while i havent had much experience as a rogue, ive had a discussion with zeus(who needless to say is no slouch of a rogue and undoubtfully is knowledgable about the game) regarding this issue and he has expressed that he has to be afraid of tanks with arc sword and little else in the way of gear because all a tank has to do to be successful is mindlessly spam autos to get a proc, use jugg to be invincible, and pull someone into the procs for an ez kill against rogues with far superior and more valuable gear. Many other rogues have expressed similar opinions, hence the vast number of threads regarding the armor nerf.

And if sts was going to nerf rogues, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD U NERF THEIR ARMOR??? Nerf what is overpowered about the class not what is average. And what is overpowered about rogues? AIMED SHOT, the most overpowered skill in the game, still a moot point given the current state rogues. But nerfing aimed shot would atleast have been justified and not ruined rogues status in pve. Mobas like Leage of Legends, Dota 2, Smite, all have dozens of characters that have to balance and when certain characters become overpowered, they surely dont go about bringing balance by nerfing the worst skills of those characters, they directly nerf what is overpowered about those characters. Spacetime studios, u have 3 characters to choose from, and u still have worse balance than mobas with 75+.

While my issues with the armor nerf are primarily from a pvp perspective, even if the armor nerf was good for the balance of pve(which ive already said it wasnt the right way to go about it but i cant say if it has helped balance or not) it is not justified to sacrifice the balance of pvp for the sake of pve. This game would have died long ago had it not been for the pvp aspect.

Now ill address some of the responses ive seen on other threads regarding the rogue armor nerf:

For those who would say rogue had their time to be overpowered, now its time for tanks. This is ignorant and pays no attention to the balance of the game. And twink rogues have never been overpowered, tanks have always been overpowered. So how is it justified to tilt that balance even more so in favor of tanks. For those who would say this game wasnt meant to have twinks, twinks were even a part of pocket legends. Sts would not have added an option to disable if everyone was supposed to lvl to the cap. And the point of this game is entertainment, if people find more joy in pvp at lower lvls than endgame, they are entitled to pursue those opportunities. For those who would say rogues can now feel whats its like for mages, just...no. Ofc a mage is good as dead without a shield, but so is rogue, even before the armor nerf i could 2 combo any lvl 17 rogue, i even 1 comboed a rogue with 2000 health before the nerf. Not to mention that mages have 2 shields and can bye nye unstunnable when cycled well(i realize shields dont last as long at endgame but mages still have 2 while having similar armor to rogues). For those who would say im just complaining because my maxed out rogue isnt incredibly strong at twinks anymore, i am upset about it but that doesnt change that rogues are still the weakest class. I spent tons of time and gold to obtain a 3 para 7 eye 1 fort nature set which i am very proud of, my stats were perfect before the nerf. Now my rogue is worthless compared to mages or tanks despite the effort and money i have put into it. And maxed out mages and tanks could be just as dominate in twinks.

For those who say that rogues arent meant to be a little bit tanky, they are meant to do dmg like a glass cannon, then why is sts nerfing our dmg. If u truly think this is how rogues should be, then lets remove the dmg debuff and see if anyone enjoys pvp then, ill gladly 2 combo tanks with 3500 health and 900 armor at lvl 17. And if rogues arent meant to be a little but tanky while doing dmg, why do tanks have invulnerability on top of the absurd dmg they are able to do with the arcane sword(yes i know its bugged but b4 the bug and once the bug is fixed it will still do absurd dmg). Id be glad to have aimed shot scaling reduced so that rogues could have some of their tankiness given back to them

Seeing as how ive shown this change had nothing to do with balance, my theory and a theory i know others share is that this nerf was for the sake of $$$$. Dont u find it rather convenient that just as rogue armor gets nerfed, a new pet that only drops in locks which are opened with plat, bought with $$$$, is released with more armor than any other pet, 228. Isnt it interesting that sts then announces a new mythic weapon with a proc that gives 75% dmg reduction(but then makes u completely useless since u cant use any skills, cant even heal myself and the point of a rogue is to do dmg with skills like wtf). Seems like they are unjustly nerfing rogues and providing 1 subpar alternative that rogues have to pay for with $$$$ or someone else spends the money and rogues spend the gold to still end up weaker than before and have to give up the 40% dmg reduction of nekro.

And on top of rogues being trashed, having dmg reduced in pvp by over 20%, armor reduced by over 16%, sts then buffs mages guns to do absurd dmg on crits through autos as zeus has expressed on another thread and given twink mages overpowered guns from crates(did rogues even get a crate weapon? I havent seen anything) sealed rogues fate as being useless in twink pvp, mages have more survivability, curse, team heals, restore mana, can still crit hard on lightning, do tons of dmg on autos, while rogues are simply food waiting to be eaten. Not to mention that mages are now able to get a mythic ring with dmg, putting them even further ahead of rogues, PLUS GALEN MAUL, THE MOST OVERPOWERED WEAPON IN THE HISTORY OF TWINKS HAS BEEN BUGGED SINCE ITS RELEASE and procs multiple times at once and has hidden armor reduction on it. My friend 1 comboed a rogue(a real twink not a random noob) AT LEVEL 13 AS A TANK AND HE DIDNT EVEN PROC. <<<this alone shows that rogues are far too squishy now. I could even be 2 comboed by tanks before the armor nerf from 1 stun and proc from galen maul, but u wont see any twink rogues 2 combo a tank.

The last thing that really ticks me off about this is the blatant disregard and lack of response from sts despite the countless threads and comments that this needs to be looked at. If u think that being silent and allowing time to let this sink in with players, u are dead wrong. I will not be silent about this until i have an answer. Either let us know that this is being looked at and possible changes may be made, or this definitively not be looked at whatsoever so i, like many others, can give up hope in sts and quit playing rogue, if not the game alltogether.

For those who made it through this essay i appreciate your time. For those who still think im wrong, pls share what u think and if its valid i may concede that, but the more likely case is ill have to point out why your wrong. To those who agree with me, show your support and lets save rogues before all rogues have dissappeared.

And lastly to sts, give us anything u have to say regarding this issue or u will lose yet another paying customer, as u have lost many already and will lose many more down the road.

I agree 100% they should give rogue their armor back unlike other classes we rogue need a pet to live. Due to armor lost Nekro not much of help now. STS return our armor ^

[Binlaggin]

Ok never mind about the cliff notes. This is a very well thought out post. I agree with every point made in this thread and I hope they listen to your suggestions. This is coming from a tank. 5 tanks > than balanced team. That's not balance. Perhape the armor nerf can only be applied in pve maps, which is where the problem existed.


20% is drastic. Why not do 5% and see where that sits

[BlueSkied]

Damn son, you weren't kidding about this being an essay. You have made cohesive points. Let's hope something can be done to salvage rogues from this treacherous fate.

[supersyan]

I am tank
Rogues dodges 75% auto attacks of pets and 75% auto attacks of player. While other two classes dodges like 5% auto attacks of both pet and player. The juggernaut cool down is the longest in the game ( 45 sec ). It doesn't do any damage. its an complementary skill. Tanks can't rush kill like rogues do. They don't get kill steals. Rogues still do brutal damage and one combo tanks and mages like 6k crit dmg from an AS at lvl 48 (i'm at 48). and my hp is 7500 and armor is 2400 and i now use galen.
I used Both arcane sword and Aegis. The arcane sword do lot of dmg if you get caught in lava. It can even take out another tank if he get caught in lava. That was when its bugged and when it gives 100% stun and ignored stun immunity rules. Now its fixed.

[uehi]

yes yes only true.

[Right]

Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right? if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?

[konafez]

For the longest time I saw rogues be the greatest thing since sliced cake, then they got nerffed and I said "welcome to our world"

But after running with my rogue friends and seeing them get flattened time after time by bosses I have to agree..give them some armor back

[uecho]

I Agree 100%

[supersyan]

For the longest time I saw rogues be the greatest thing since sliced cake, then they got nerffed and I said "welcome to our world"

But after running with my rogue friends and seeing them get flattened time after time by bosses I have to agree..give them some armor back

what maps were you running?

[MasterP]

oh wow, very long post regarding your unhappiness.
Just remember tanks went through it for over a year and a half.. Try being a tank in that moment, before sts took forever to fix 1 skill and getting 1/2 shotted through your jugg with rogues who almost had the same armor as some tanks, and 1million x the dmg/dps factor. i have no sympathy for rogues. You are clearly what you are meant to be now, which is paper. Not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot now is it? In any mmorpg i have played, Warrior is what it is meant to be, Taunt,soak up dmg, have rage/vengeful factor, crazy amounts of health and basically survive(almost never dying). Rogues in A.l are what they are meant to be, currently. Easy to kill, but if you dont watch out, they can kill just as easily. They're Fast. But otherwise meant to be easy to die.. In no rpg/mmorpg iv ever played, was there a rogue class which was equal to a warrior or better. So i dont see the arguments or complaints, now that the game is balanced. Perhaps alot of you who are crying are the ones who cant handle elite runs or keep dying in elite timed runs. Like somebody else mentioned.. Adjust your gear. Add health/diamond jewels. Oh ofcos, its not as great as your +8/+9 jewels? or eyes/paras on older gear. To bad, adjust to the new criteria. You shouldnt be dealing so much dmg anyway imo.. Sts should nerf that too.

[Lethoiun]

All these tanks are now happy that they are invicible with op dmg at endgame will rogs cant survive 2 secs and telling us not to complain...

Speechless

[Att]

The point of this thread is not to complain, not to start a flame war, but to address the clear deficiencies sts has with regards to balance between the 3 classes. Im 17 and could do a better job designing balance changes than anything they have put in place and im sure a significant portion of the arlor community could do the same. Yes i know many threads have been made regarding this issue but ive ranted to in game friends enough about it that I figured i would put my 2 cents in.(sorry in advance for the great length and saying tanks instead of warriors over and over)

Ive been playing at lvl 17 pvp for over 2 years, primarily rogue but ive played the other 2 classes aswell. In addition i did some 46 pvp with a tank but ill be addressing that later. Since i started playing as a twink warriors were by and far the strongest class in twink pvp and that remains true today. What truly brought rogues and mages more in line with warriors was the buff to nekro. For the past few months before the rogue armor nerf lvl 17 had never been more balanced. All classes could beat all classes in vs, atleast 1 mage and rogue were always wanted for a clash, and all classes had the potential to be significant in all aspects of pvp, atleast for my lvl.

Before I state where I believe sts has made their mistakes i'd like to establish some criteria for what could be considered "balance" in pvp. From a clash perspective, I believe that all classes should be desireable without 2 classes overshadowing the third. That being said, i do recognize that tanks will always be more desireable with atleast 2-3 tanks being preferable only 1-2 of each of the other classes may be needed. From a vs perspective, I believe that all classes should be competitive with each other, while one class may have a slight advantage over another, they should be at a slight disadvantage to the third.

While the armor nerf in addition to other changes have devastated rogues across all lvls, twink pvp has been hurt even more so due to the blanket changes that sts applies to all levels when they only need to be applied to a select few. For example, the first change that irritated me was when juggernaut was buffed to grant 65% dmg reduction. While i will admit this change was definitely needed for endgame as tanks were dying too often through jugg, there was 0 reason to have this change apply to low lvls. In the time i played a lvl 18 tank, i used juggernaut for a shortwhile and i could survive 1v5 for 10 seconds without juggernaut breaking while the rest of my team regrouped. For a long time twinks were even considered noobs for using juggernaut because it took 0 skill in proper tanking to simply become invincible for the duration. Before the juggernaut buffs my guild and I were able to farm 5 tanks if we had the proper line up, nowadays, forget about it. 4/5 tanks are running around with juggernaut because it absurdly overpowered at twink lvls. Sometimes we cant even kill 2-3 tanks before the rest of their team rejoins because juggernaut reduces my 1k crits to a meager 400 or lower.

After some time however ive been able to get over that, as boring as it can make clashes sometimes when people just stack tanks. What threw me over the edge, and many other rogues players was the blanket nerf to rogues armor. What frustrates me most about this change is the pitiful reasoning sts has used to justify it. Bear with me as i tear it apart piece by piece.



Over time signifies that rogues didnt used to be tankier than intended. In other words, at previous caps and lower lvls rogues tankyness was fine yet sts chooses to nerf rogues across all levels anyways. And here is the real kicker "rogues will no longer be tankier than warriors" WHAT??? ARE U CRAZY??? Sts please show me a lvl 46 rogue(the cap at the time of the change) with 3000 armor, or 9000 health, or 65% dmg reduction from a single skill. This shows a clear lack of knowledge regarding the state of the game. Then the suggestiont they come up with as compensation is to put 10 points into razor shield mastery for 10% dmg reduction. Minimum of 11 points for 10% dmg reduction compared to 2 points for 65% dmg reduction, this is what u call balance sts? And whats ur proposition for twinks? Nothing because you people didnt think this through at all.

Whether this nerf was intended to bring about balance from a pvp or pve perspective, either way it was unintelligent, irrational, and unjustified. If this was from a pve perspective because rogues were the most favored class and tanks the least favored, nerfing rogues was not the fix because it still leaves tanks in just as bad a state as they were before. In fact, tanks were even speeding up elite runs and making it onto the lb for timed runs in the days preceding the rogue armor nerf. The real solution was not to nerf other classes in an attempt to force people to play tanks, but to buff tanks such that they were once again desireable. And how could that be achieved? Hmm idk, maybe fixing the taunt system that has been atrocious for years or developing maps with mobs that actually require a tank to be able to complete it. In the time i spent playing pocket legends before the days of arlor i spent a fair amount of time farming the hardest bosses at lvl 66. I can safely say that a full bird(the dex class) lineup was simply unfathomable, the thought would never have even crossed my mind. As the dex class, I almost never ran a map without atleast 1 enchantress(int) and a bear(str) along with me because a full dex lineup would have been demolished by the bosses, if not the mobs themselves.

If this nerf was from a pvp perspective, tanks were already the overpowered class in pvp at endgame and at twinks. More than 1 rogue was almost never preferred over a mage or an additional tank. 1v1 tank vs rogue could go either way at twinks and at endgame. While i cant attest to the status of mage in 1v1 at endgame, as for lvl 17, mages could beat both tanks(yes, tanks)and rogues in 1v1. After the nerf, i havent played much endgame since but from my twinking experience and what i have gathered from thoughts by endgame rogues, rogues are now by and far the weakest pvp class in the game.

The result of the nerf: despite being the single target dmg class, i can no longer beat equally geared/skilled mages/tanks in 1v1(yah i still beat well geared tanks who r clueless but that is because they miss 3/4 hits and cant heal properly). I havent even 1v1ed a well geared mage since the nerf because i know ill be obliterated. I have seen more 4-5 tank lineups with maybe 1 mage, and sometimes 3 warrior 2 mages, but rarely do i see rogues in 5v5s anymore. Countless twink rogues have quit rogue and switched classes quit the game alltogether, just check the auction house and u will see tons of para rogue items. Check the traders market, for every thread someone is buying rogue gear there are 6 threads to sell rogue gear. There is literally 0 reason to play rogue at twinks over the other 2 classes.

THE SHEER FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING ROGUE SHOULD SERVE AS FLASHING RED LIGHTS THAT U MESSED SOMETHING UP. STS OPEN YOUR EYES.

As for endgame, while i havent had much experience as a rogue, ive had a discussion with zeus(who needless to say is no slouch of a rogue and undoubtfully is knowledgable about the game) regarding this issue and he has expressed that he has to be afraid of tanks with arc sword and little else in the way of gear because all a tank has to do to be successful is mindlessly spam autos to get a proc, use jugg to be invincible, and pull someone into the procs for an ez kill against rogues with far superior and more valuable gear. Many other rogues have expressed similar opinions, hence the vast number of threads regarding the armor nerf.

And if sts was going to nerf rogues, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD U NERF THEIR ARMOR??? Nerf what is overpowered about the class not what is average. And what is overpowered about rogues? AIMED SHOT, the most overpowered skill in the game, still a moot point given the current state rogues. But nerfing aimed shot would atleast have been justified and not ruined rogues status in pve. Mobas like Leage of Legends, Dota 2, Smite, all have dozens of characters that have to balance and when certain characters become overpowered, they surely dont go about bringing balance by nerfing the worst skills of those characters, they directly nerf what is overpowered about those characters. Spacetime studios, u have 3 characters to choose from, and u still have worse balance than mobas with 75+.

While my issues with the armor nerf are primarily from a pvp perspective, even if the armor nerf was good for the balance of pve(which ive already said it wasnt the right way to go about it but i cant say if it has helped balance or not) it is not justified to sacrifice the balance of pvp for the sake of pve. This game would have died long ago had it not been for the pvp aspect.

Now ill address some of the responses ive seen on other threads regarding the rogue armor nerf:

For those who would say rogue had their time to be overpowered, now its time for tanks. This is ignorant and pays no attention to the balance of the game. And twink rogues have never been overpowered, tanks have always been overpowered. So how is it justified to tilt that balance even more so in favor of tanks. For those who would say this game wasnt meant to have twinks, twinks were even a part of pocket legends. Sts would not have added an option to disable if everyone was supposed to lvl to the cap. And the point of this game is entertainment, if people find more joy in pvp at lower lvls than endgame, they are entitled to pursue those opportunities. For those who would say rogues can now feel whats its like for mages, just...no. Ofc a mage is good as dead without a shield, but so is rogue, even before the armor nerf i could 2 combo any lvl 17 rogue, i even 1 comboed a rogue with 2000 health before the nerf. Not to mention that mages have 2 shields and can bye nye unstunnable when cycled well(i realize shields dont last as long at endgame but mages still have 2 while having similar armor to rogues). For those who would say im just complaining because my maxed out rogue isnt incredibly strong at twinks anymore, i am upset about it but that doesnt change that rogues are still the weakest class. I spent tons of time and gold to obtain a 3 para 7 eye 1 fort nature set which i am very proud of, my stats were perfect before the nerf. Now my rogue is worthless compared to mages or tanks despite the effort and money i have put into it. And maxed out mages and tanks could be just as dominate in twinks.

For those who say that rogues arent meant to be a little bit tanky, they are meant to do dmg like a glass cannon, then why is sts nerfing our dmg. If u truly think this is how rogues should be, then lets remove the dmg debuff and see if anyone enjoys pvp then, ill gladly 2 combo tanks with 3500 health and 900 armor at lvl 17. And if rogues arent meant to be a little but tanky while doing dmg, why do tanks have invulnerability on top of the absurd dmg they are able to do with the arcane sword(yes i know its bugged but b4 the bug and once the bug is fixed it will still do absurd dmg). Id be glad to have aimed shot scaling reduced so that rogues could have some of their tankiness given back to them

Seeing as how ive shown this change had nothing to do with balance, my theory and a theory i know others share is that this nerf was for the sake of $$$$. Dont u find it rather convenient that just as rogue armor gets nerfed, a new pet that only drops in locks which are opened with plat, bought with $$$$, is released with more armor than any other pet, 228. Isnt it interesting that sts then announces a new mythic weapon with a proc that gives 75% dmg reduction(but then makes u completely useless since u cant use any skills, cant even heal myself and the point of a rogue is to do dmg with skills like wtf). Seems like they are unjustly nerfing rogues and providing 1 subpar alternative that rogues have to pay for with $$$$ or someone else spends the money and rogues spend the gold to still end up weaker than before and have to give up the 40% dmg reduction of nekro.

And on top of rogues being trashed, having dmg reduced in pvp by over 20%, armor reduced by over 16%, sts then buffs mages guns to do absurd dmg on crits through autos as zeus has expressed on another thread and given twink mages overpowered guns from crates(did rogues even get a crate weapon? I havent seen anything) sealed rogues fate as being useless in twink pvp, mages have more survivability, curse, team heals, restore mana, can still crit hard on lightning, do tons of dmg on autos, while rogues are simply food waiting to be eaten. Not to mention that mages are now able to get a mythic ring with dmg, putting them even further ahead of rogues, PLUS GALEN MAUL, THE MOST OVERPOWERED WEAPON IN THE HISTORY OF TWINKS HAS BEEN BUGGED SINCE ITS RELEASE and procs multiple times at once and has hidden armor reduction on it. My friend 1 comboed a rogue(a real twink not a random noob) AT LEVEL 13 AS A TANK AND HE DIDNT EVEN PROC. <<<this alone shows that rogues are far too squishy now. I could even be 2 comboed by tanks before the armor nerf from 1 stun and proc from galen maul, but u wont see any twink rogues 2 combo a tank.

The last thing that really ticks me off about this is the blatant disregard and lack of response from sts despite the countless threads and comments that this needs to be looked at. If u think that being silent and allowing time to let this sink in with players, u are dead wrong. I will not be silent about this until i have an answer. Either let us know that this is being looked at and possible changes may be made, or this definitively not be looked at whatsoever so i, like many others, can give up hope in sts and quit playing rogue, if not the game alltogether.

For those who made it through this essay i appreciate your time. For those who still think im wrong, pls share what u think and if its valid i may concede that, but the more likely case is ill have to point out why your wrong. To those who agree with me, show your support and lets save rogues before all rogues have dissappeared.

And lastly to sts, give us anything u have to say regarding this issue or u will lose yet another paying customer, as u have lost many already and will lose many more down the road.

Longest post on forum. Will reply next year when i finish read.

[Lawpvp]

Cliff notes please. Not being smart--and I'm interested in your thoughts--just too lazy to read

If i have the time ill add a summative section at the bottom, thanks for the idea


I am tank
Rogues dodges 75% auto attacks of pets and 75% auto attacks of player. While other two classes dodges like 5% auto attacks of both pet and player. The juggernaut cool down is the longest in the game ( 45 sec ). It doesn't do any damage. its an complementary skill. Tanks can't rush kill like rogues do. They don't get kill steals. Rogues still do brutal damage and one combo tanks and mages like 6k crit dmg from an AS at lvl 48 (i'm at 48). and my hp is 7500 and armor is 2400 and i now use galen.
I used Both arcane sword and Aegis. The arcane sword do lot of dmg if you get caught in lava. It can even take out another tank if he get caught in lava. That was when its bugged and when it gives 100% stun and ignored stun immunity rules. Now its fixed.

If u seriously think auto attacks do dmg even close to that of skills ur dead wrong. And i play at lvl 17. I have 20 dodge, not 75.


Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors
PLEASE SHOW ME A LVL 46 ROGUE WITH EITHER: 9000 HEALTH, 3000 ARMOR, OR 65% DMG REDUCTION
and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right?
Ive already addressed this regarding pve, as u said "everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them" so pls tell me how nerfing rogues changes that at all? Ive clearly pointed out how sts could have alleviated this by revitalizing the taunt system and developing maps that actually require a tank
if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you im entitled to make a thread if i want to, just as much as any other person on these forums,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?

First off, i never demanded rogue armor back, i simply pointed out the nerf was unjustified and rogues need looked into because they are the worst class in the game atm, as shown by so many people quitting rogue for the other classes. And what does this have to do with the cake exploit? Absolutely nothing. Not to mention that warriors were actually making runs faster and joining the timed lb before the nerf so the argument tanks were useless is invalid


oh wow, very long post regarding your unhappiness.
Just remember tanks went through it for over a year and a half..
I PLAY AT LVL 17 and have been for over 2 years. 80% of that time warriors were the overpowered class, 20% of that time it was balanced between all 3 classes. Try being a tank in that moment, before sts took forever to fix 1 skill and getting 1/2 shotted through your jugg with rogues who almost had the same armor as some tanks, and 1million x the dmg/dps factor. i have no sympathy for rogues. You are clearly what you are meant to be now, which is paper. Not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot now is it? In any mmorpg i have played, Warrior is what it is meant to be, Taunt,soak up dmg, have rage/vengeful factor, crazy amounts of health and basically survive(almost never dying). Rogues in A.l are what they are meant to be, currently. Easy to kill, but if you dont watch out, they can kill just as easily. They're Fast. But otherwise meant to be easy to die.. In no rpg/mmorpg iv ever played, was there a rogue class which was equal to a warrior or better. So i dont see the arguments or complaints, now that the game is balanced. Perhaps alot of you who are crying are the ones who cant handle elite runs or keep dying in elite timed runs. Like somebody else mentioned.. Adjust your gear. Add health/diamond jewels. Oh ofcos, its not as great as your +8/+9 jewels? or eyes/paras on older gear. To bad, adjust to the new criteria. You shouldnt be dealing so much dmg anyway imo.. Sts should nerf that too.

If i seriously think changing to health/diamond jewels is a viable option u clearly know nothing about the rogue class. Unlike tanks who can put everything into str and get dmg, health, rogues need points in str, dex, int. If i was to swap out my 7 eyes for 7 fort nature/diamond my build would be an absolute joke. U really think 24 extra health is better than the extra 20 mana, .5 crit and dmg from an eye? U really think 18 armor is better than 36 health, 20 mana, .5 crit and some dmg on an eye? Lmao this is like remiems suggestion of using razor for 10% dmg reduction.
And as for rogues shouldnt be dealing as much dmg anyways, ive already stated that aimed shot is what should have been nerfed, not rogues armor. Id be perfectly fine with aimedshot scaling being reduced if rogues recieved some tankiness back.

And ur saying rogues should be glass cannons, thats how they are meant to be. Fine, then warriors should be tanks. A LEVEL 13 WARRIOR SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO 1 COMBO A ROGUE. Lets cap all warriors dmg at 600 and give them an extra 1000 armor so they can be what they are meant to be, tanks and see if anybody enjoys this hmm. Its always incredible to me how people can make the argument that rogues are meant to do dmg not be tanky, whilst warriors are doing absurd amounts of dmg while being unkillable. The hypocracy is real

Multiple of you who i just responded to clearly havent read my entire first post(yes ik its long) or u would have known i come from lvl 17 twink pvp, rogues are not, were not, ever op there and are no so far below the other 2 classes across all twink lvls. Tons of rogue twinks are quitting, tanks can 2 combo rogues(even before the nerf) and kill them by getting 1 stun and proc. It will take me atleast 3-4 combos, critting on aimed shot every time, to kill a tank. But i cant get 1 stun and proc and kill them before they can get to packs, they can just use horn and become invincible. Galen maul IS STILL BUGGED SINCE ELONDRIAN EVENT OF LAST YEAR, STS WTH FIX THIS. Rogues in twinks can no longer vs warriors or mages. Rogues are as squishy as a mage but with only 1 shield. 3-5 tanks with maybe 1-2 mages, 0 rogues is now the norm in twink 5v5s.

THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH IS HOW TWINKS HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. it is completely unjustified to destroy twinks for the sake of incorrectly balancing endgame, there is no way around it, and that needs to be addressed

[Aerodude]

oh wow, very long post regarding your unhappiness.
Just remember tanks went through it for over a year and a half.. Try being a tank in that moment, before sts took forever to fix 1 skill and getting 1/2 shotted through your jugg with rogues who almost had the same armor as some tanks, and 1million x the dmg/dps factor. i have no sympathy for rogues. You are clearly what you are meant to be now, which is paper. Not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot now is it? In any mmorpg i have played, Warrior is what it is meant to be, Taunt,soak up dmg, have rage/vengeful factor, crazy amounts of health and basically survive(almost never dying). Rogues in A.l are what they are meant to be, currently. Easy to kill, but if you dont watch out, they can kill just as easily. They're Fast. But otherwise meant to be easy to die.. In no rpg/mmorpg iv ever played, was there a rogue class which was equal to a warrior or better. So i dont see the arguments or complaints, now that the game is balanced. Perhaps alot of you who are crying are the ones who cant handle elite runs or keep dying in elite timed runs. Like somebody else mentioned.. Adjust your gear. Add health/diamond jewels. Oh ofcos, its not as great as your +8/+9 jewels? or eyes/paras on older gear. To bad, adjust to the new criteria. You shouldnt be dealing so much dmg anyway imo.. Sts should nerf that too.

Yea tanks be tanks while rogues be rogues
U call game balanced when tanks 1-2 combo/hit rogues?
SINCE WHEN DID TANKS EVER DO THAT AND WHY DO THEY DO IT???
Yea sure rogues are easy to kill but they shouldn't be that easy
ROGUES SHOULDNT BE DOING THAT MUCH DAMAGE???
WELL NOW I SUPPOSE ROGUES SHOULD DO WAY MORE DAMAGE TO TANKS BECAUSE THEY ARENT TANKS ANYMORE..... apparently they've been mutated to be part rogue part tank but not in a 50/50 way but its more of 100/100 since tanks hit so hard and take so less damage
So I would prefer tanks doing moderate dmg but HP and armor increase about 2000(?) + Jugg 65%reduction
But rogues hit weak with jugg on but when its gone then we do so much more dmg

[supersyan]

From the tank perspective auto attacks do some amount of damage close to skill (considering the cool down of skills are long) And pet attacks do some damage and as well as. Because of the high dodge of rogues, both are missed (dodeged 75% time)we don't dealing the damage as we should do. The dot from pets as well the chance of getting any debuff are also missed. I understand u come from lvl 17. but you said you spoke to an end game player and he's feeling the same.
And as for the weapon bugs it should be fixed.

[supersyan]

Yea tanks be tanks while rogues be rogues
U call game balanced when tanks 1-2 combo/hit rogues?
SINCE WHEN DID TANKS EVER DO THAT AND WHY DO THEY DO IT???
Yea sure rogues are easy to kill but they shouldn't be that easy
ROGUES SHOULDNT BE DOING THAT MUCH DAMAGE???
WELL NOW I SUPPOSE ROGUES SHOULD DO WAY MORE DAMAGE TO TANKS BECAUSE THEY ARENT TANKS ANYMORE..... apparently they've been mutated to be part rogue part tank but not in a 50/50 way but its more of 100/100 since tanks hit so hard and take so less damage
So I would prefer tanks doing moderate dmg but HP and armor increase about 2000(?) + Jugg 65%reduction
But rogues hit weak with jugg on but when its gone then we do so much more dmg

Cd of jugg is long. its 45 sec. May be the tanks at twinks level hit hard but not the tanks at the end game

[uehi]

I am tank
Rogues dodges 75% auto attacks of pets and 75% auto attacks of player. While other two classes dodges like 5% auto attacks of both pet and player. The juggernaut cool down is the longest in the game ( 45 sec ). It doesn't do any damage. its an complementary skill. Tanks can't rush kill like rogues do. They don't get kill steals. Rogues still do brutal damage and one combo tanks and mages like 6k crit dmg from an AS at lvl 48 (i'm at 48). and my hp is 7500 and armor is 2400 and i now use galen.
I used Both arcane sword and Aegis. The arcane sword do lot of dmg if you get caught in lava. It can even take out another tank if he get caught in lava. That was when its bugged and when it gives 100% stun and ignored stun immunity rules. Now its fixed.
7500 hp
2400 armor::? its only your busines yr weak stats any rog cnt hurt you with the low lev gear like you use. but if oponent have the same gear you win easy.

[supersyan]

All these tanks are now happy that they are invicible with op dmg at endgame will rogs cant survive 2 secs and telling us not to complain...

Speechless

Endgame rogues can't survive 2 sec against tanks? I assume they crit 8k crit at lvl 56 from an single AS and not to mention the multiple crit from the AS as well on a 10k hp 3k armor tank.and the additional damage from additional crit.

[uehi]

Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right? if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?

The same type gem should gives the same advance all class str=warior dex=rogue int = =mage. Try warior without str take armor and nature hp gem so warior need be like warior or try mage with water and nature gem. You know why no one use it:? Because its like nerf.
Rogue Armor nerfed so put more armor gem that nerf doge crit dmg. Weak can be weaker. with your advance.

[supersyan]

7500 hp
2400 armor::? its only your busines yr weak stats any rog cnt hurt you with the low lev gear like you use. but if oponent have the same gear you win easy.

I'm talking about rogues compared to gear level of mine. which is the free mythic set. And they still win 7/10 and do crit a lot. When i used my aegis my hp ws 8.2k+ and 3200 armor (with abaddon pet) and still rogues crit 6k+

[supersyan]

The same type gem should gives the same advance all class str=warior dex=rogue int = =mage. Try warior without str take armor and nature hp gem so warior need be like warior or try mage with water and nature gem. You know why no one use it:? Because its like nerf.
Rogue Armor nerfed so put more armor gem that nerf doge crit dmg. Weak can be weaker. with your advance.
The same can be said with rogues. But rogues are in advantage with finess jewel they get additional stats increase (which i don't remeber). Acutally rogues are in advanatage if you considee the gems and jewels

[Lawpvp]

I'm talking about rogues compared to gear level of mine. which is the free mythic set. And they still win 7/10 and do crit a lot. When i used my aegis my hp ws 8.2k+ and 3200 armor (with abaddon pet) and still rogues crit 6k+

Use arc sword, charge jugg, spam autos for a few seconds, use axe and ss, rinse and repeat. Before ur jugg ends the rogue will be dead, and rogues wont crit u for 6k with juggernaut active. Aegis is a pve weapon not pvp. And if ur having issues with rogues crit, get better at feebling, u have 2 skills which can do it.


The same can be said with rogues. But rogues are in advantage with finess jewel they get additional stats increase (which i don't remeber). Acutally rogues are in advanatage if you considee the gems and jewels

Lmaoo rogues are at an advantage with finesse jewel? Rogues also need str and int. All warriors need is str. Warriors are by far at an advantage,

Pls lets bring this thread a bit more back on topic, instead of discussing other balance issues lets focus on whether the armor buff was justified and the most important part:

ANY SORT OF COMMENT FROM STS TO SHOW THIS HAS BEEN NOTICED AND alterations to rogues are being considered or will not be considered so i can decide whether to quit this game. Or not.

Ruining twink and pvp endgame balance for the sake of endgame pve is not justified.

[uehi]

I'm talking about rogues compared to gear level of mine. which is the free mythic set. And they still win 7/10 and do crit a lot. When i used my aegis my hp ws 8.2k+ and 3200 armor (with abaddon pet) and still rogues crit 6k+
You use aegis rogue use mith dager:? its the same point like aegis....-_- Fervor vs Mith maul that can show you true. Arcane sword vs dagers.
Mith dagers vs Aegis. If y cnt understand this play rogue mayby you learn how win easy and you can understand what is wrony on rog. and why you lose with moch strongest class vs weak .

[uehi]

I'm talking about rogues compared to gear level of mine. which is the free mythic set. And they still win 7/10 and do crit a lot. When i used my aegis my hp ws 8.2k+ and 3200 armor (with abaddon pet) and still rogues crit 6k+
and wtf abaddon pet:???? joke:??. all ok if oponent use abaddon too it is weak pet for pvp. point is both use the same pet. The same lev pet. jts big difernent abddon vs nekro abaddon vs singe.

[supersyan]

Use arc sword, charge jugg, spam autos for a few seconds, use axe and ss, rinse and repeat. Before ur jugg ends the rogue will be dead, and rogues wont crit u for 6k with juggernaut active. Aegis is a pve weapon not pvp. And if ur having issues with rogues crit, get better at feebling, u have 2 skills which can do it.


All you have to do is spam AS on tank when he's not on juggernaut before casting and after it ended(15 sec). Also this 65% reduction is only for 6sec. All you need is 1 skill to mindlessly spam on tanks.

Yes rogues are at an advantage with fineness jewels. Warriors need dex and int to get hp and mana on stats.

[supersyan]

You use aegis rogue use mith dager:? its the same point like aegis....-_- Fervor vs Mith maul that can show you true. Arcane sword vs dagers.
Mith dagers vs Aegis. If y cnt understand this play rogue mayby you learn how win easy and you can understand what is wrony on rog. and why you lose with moch strongest class vs weak .

I used arcane sword and nekro. Both won't give armor. There's not much difference between arcane sword and mythic maul. sword only gives additional dps which is useless when rogues dodges it anyway. And the main difference is lava proc. Its not only the rogues but also other tanks , rogues, mages if they get caught in lava pool they'll die if its stuns. but now its fixed and won't do 100% stun

[uehi]

All you have to do is spam AS on tank when he's not on juggernaut before casting and after it ended(15 sec). Also this 65% reduction is only for 6sec. All you need is 1 skill to mindlessly spam on tanks.

Yes rogues are at an advantage with fineness jewels. Warriors need dex and int to get hp and mana on stats.
all what you need is try play rogue. you should try before you tell somethings about aimed jewels Point what you think because you read skill map not give you nothing.

[uehi]

I used arcane sword and nekro. Both won't give armor. There's not much difference between arcane sword and mythic maul. sword only gives additional dps which is useless when rogues dodges it anyway. And the main difference is lava proc. Its not only the rogues but also other tanks , rogues, mages if they get caught in lava pool they'll die if its stuns. but now its fixed and won't do 100% stun

Man the same gear vs the same gear at all lev should give the same advance if you lose with weak class its only your faul. Try learn how play fromm better players try understand your skills and skill oponent. And Rly try play rogue before you say somethings About advance. If you have problem Vs rogue make another thread. and we share tips with you . and we show you where you weak. Many Tanks know how easy win with other class and know how to be immortal.

[butterspar]

All you have to do is spam AS on tank when he's not on juggernaut before casting and after it ended(15 sec). Also this 65% reduction is only for 6sec. All you need is 1 skill to mindlessly spam on tanks.

Yes rogues are at an advantage with fineness jewels. Warriors need dex and int to get hp and mana on stats.

You're a Retard

[supersyan]

You're a Retard

I never offended anyone or disrespected anyone on this forum. shame on you

[Zeus]

I am tank
Rogues dodges 75% auto attacks of pets and 75% auto attacks of player. While other two classes dodges like 5% auto attacks of both pet and player. The juggernaut cool down is the longest in the game ( 45 sec ). It doesn't do any damage. its an complementary skill. Tanks can't rush kill like rogues do. They don't get kill steals. Rogues still do brutal damage and one combo tanks and mages like 6k crit dmg from an AS at lvl 48 (i'm at 48). and my hp is 7500 and armor is 2400 and i now use galen.
I used Both arcane sword and Aegis. The arcane sword do lot of dmg if you get caught in lava. It can even take out another tank if he get caught in lava. That was when its bugged and when it gives 100% stun and ignored stun immunity rules. Now its fixed.

Be truthful, rogues don't dodge 75% and dodge is not a percentage number either. If a rogue has 50 dodge it does not mean he will dodge 50% of attacks.

Tanks actually can rush and kill like rogues do, thanks to that ridiculous sword. All the while, absorbing huge amounts of damage. Tanks still get kill steals, they have the second highest kills in clashes whilst having the highest survivability. In fact, my latest clash, I got 199 kills in. The tanks, got 114. However, to earn those 199 kills, I had to die an INSANE amount due to the ridiculous armor nerf. Tanks? I would say they died maybe 30-40 times in the entire match. My kills mostly equaled my deaths. And furthermore, the clash teams do not even NEED a rogue. That is how imbalanced PvP is right now.

If you want to make suggestions, please talk actual numbers. In fact, go test my claims right now and you will find that they are true. Have a rogue with 100 dodge and try to hit him with auto attack, you will still be able to because dodge is not a percentage.

[Zeus]

All you have to do is spam AS on tank when he's not on juggernaut before casting and after it ended(15 sec). Also this 65% reduction is only for 6sec. All you need is 1 skill to mindlessly spam on tanks.

Yes rogues are at an advantage with fineness jewels. Warriors need dex and int to get hp and mana on stats.

1. A warrior does not need dex or int.
2. Rogues need int as well for mana.
3. Warriors have a skill that generates mana.
4. When do you want s rogue to spam AS after jugg is over? By that time, a rogue is almost always dead. If he's not dead, he soon will be because that lava sword procs almost every match and lasts for 15+ seconds so it's quite easy to proc back to back. Furthermore, the lava pools stack an insane amount. So, if the rogues does survive past jugg, the rogue now no longer has stun immunity and will die seconds later due to the proc which is nearly always active.
5. I know many warriors that know how to beat rogues. If you can't figure out how to beat a rogue, that's on you. There are plenty of other warriors that can.

[supersyan]

Be truthful, rogues don't dodge 75% and dodge is not a percentage number either. If a rogue has 50 dodge it does not mean he will dodge 50% of attacks.

Tanks actually can rush and kill like rogues do, thanks to that ridiculous sword. All the while, absorbing huge amounts of damage. Tanks still get kill steals, they have the second highest kills in clashes whilst having the highest survivability. In fact, my latest clash, I got 199 kills in. The tanks, got 114. However, to earn those 199 kills, I had to die an INSANE amount due to the ridiculous armor nerf. Tanks? I would say they died maybe 30-40 times in the entire match. My kills mostly equaled my deaths. And furthermore, the clash teams do not even NEED a rogue. That is how imbalanced PvP is right now.

If you want to make suggestions, please talk actual numbers. In fact, go test my claims right now and you will find that they are true. Have a rogue with 100 dodge and try to hit him with auto attack, you will still be able to because dodge is not a percentage.

That 75% is not to show as facts or display. what i meant is rogues dodges 3/4 or most of the auto attacks of pet misses and of player in addition rogues have to be closer to tanks to get hit from autos

[supersyan]

1. A warrior does not need dex or int.
2. Rogues need int as well for mana.
3. Warriors have a skill that generates mana.
4. When do you want s rogue to spam AS after jugg is over? By that time, a rogue is almost always dead. If he's not dead, he soon will be because that lava sword procs almost every match and lasts for 15+ seconds so it's quite easy to proc back to back. Furthermore, the lava pools stack an insane amount. So, if the rogues does survive past jugg, the rogue now no longer has stun immunity and will die seconds later due to the proc which is nearly always active.
5. I know many warriors that know how to beat rogues. If you can't figure out how to beat a rogue, that's on you. There are plenty of other warriors that can.

1. warrior need dex and int for hp.
2. Yes
3. Mage can replenish mana as well. And theres HP and mana packs on CTF and TDM packs
4. Lava proc should be last for only 10 sec http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?296046-New-Arcane-Weapons!-Available-Now-in-Massive-Ren-gol-Locked-Crates
If its not then its a bug.
5. Thanks for advice

[Zeus]

That 75% is not to show as facts or display. what i meant is rogues dodges 3/4 or most of the auto attacks of pet misses and of player in addition rogues have to be closer to tanks to get hit from autos

They don't dodge 3/4 of auto attack. Go and test with some hard numbers and video proof please. I know because I've already tested this. You'll find that it's much less than that figure you're claiming.

1. No, they don't. Any decent warrior is always full str. The best warriors are full str. If you aren't, it's because you don't have the max gear. Balance starts from maxed gear, not mid level.

2. Rogues also need str for HP if not maxed. Especially now due to the fact enchanted eyes no longer work.

3. Yes, so you're just proving my point that you don't need to spec int as a warrior.

4. 10 seconds is not enough? That's plenty of time to proc back to back while another proc is already active. Most other procs only last 1-2 seconds.

5. NP.

[herculeans]

Icame here to see dramas ;)

[butterspar]

I never offended anyone or disrespected anyone on this forum. shame on you

Your posts are offending my brain, Learn your class before getting into an argument about it

[mapenjay]

the game is ruined from time to time

[supersyan]

They don't dodge 3/4 of auto attack. Go and test with some hard numbers and video proof please. I know because I've already tested this. You'll find that it's much less than that figure you're claiming.

1. No, they don't. Any decent warrior is always full str. The best warriors are full str. If you aren't, it's because you don't have the max gear. Balance starts from maxed gear, not mid level.

2. Rogues also need str for HP if not maxed. Especially now due to the fact enchanted eyes no longer work.

3. Yes, so you're just proving my point that you don't need to spec int as a warrior.

4. 10 seconds is not enough? That's plenty of time to proc back to back while another proc is already active. Most other procs only last 1-2 seconds.

5. NP.

1. Yes they do. To max out HP they spend points on Passive dex 5/5 int 5/5 and str 5/5.
2. If rogue need more hp then spend points on str
3. No i'm not. Int point is needed for warriors who are not using VB. Thats why there are using points in passive int. Most pvp builds for warriors are axe , ss, Jugg, heal. They'll run out mana after a barrage of attacks.
4. I'm not the one designed the weapons. Its devs

[Wazakesy]

1. Yes they do. To max out HP they spend points on Passive dex 5/5 int 5/5 and str 5/5.
2. If rogue need more hp then spend points on str
3. No i'm not. Int point is needed for warriors who are not using VB. Thats why there are using points in passive int. Most pvp builds for warriors are axe , ss, Jugg, heal. They'll run out mana after a barrage of attacks.
4. I'm not the one designed the weapons. Its devs

3. You are using the wrong build, Or you just lack experience in PvP.

[xRyuzanki]

Pls return the armor of the rogue..
Rogues at endgame ( PvP ) is so easy to kill nah , the 2secs immunity+ arcane shield masteries + nekro shield from Mage to fight rogues is enough to kill 2-3 rogues at the same time lol cause I alrdy tried it even tho they use razor shield it is not enough :/.
in some situations like a 1v1 between rogues and warriors , Rogues can do some heavy combos but still not enough , it can only give a "threat" but since warriors have a lot of buffs + the OP pet AA's like sns , it deals too much damage....
Considering you can use NATURE Gems for your HP or DIAMOND Gems for it armor. for ex . : Noble nature + Noble DIAMOND + Noble finesse Gems , but how about the budget nah ? Since rogues are HEAVY USER OF Pots...
And you know some rogues are not RICH and their Items / equipment cost 2x more .
Mages and warriors also have problems to deal with but ROGUES problem are too much.
Mana/ Hp / Armor ????

[Zeus]

1. Yes they do. To max out HP they spend points on Passive dex 5/5 int 5/5 and str 5/5.
2. If rogue need more hp then spend points on str
3. No i'm not. Int point is needed for warriors who are not using VB. Thats why there are using points in passive int. Most pvp builds for warriors are axe , ss, Jugg, heal. They'll run out mana after a barrage of attacks.
4. I'm not the one designed the weapons. Its devs

1. Every class does this, it's nothing new. It's bonus points - it's not something that one needs to make a compromise for like rogues having to compromise their jewels by having to insert ones that give HP or Mana. Warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
2. Again, warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
3. No, int is not needed if you're maxed out. Passive int is a given, your build should have room for it.



Cd of jugg is long. its 45 sec. May be the tanks at twinks level hit hard but not the tanks at the end game

Tanks at end game can wipe 3 people at a time, what do you mean that tanks do not hit hard?

[uehi]

That 75% is not to show as facts or display. what i meant is rogues dodges 3/4 or most of the auto attacks of pet misses and of player in addition rogues have to be closer to tanks to get hit from autos
i think you dont know nothing about class. and how it works sory but check all what you say first. And spek here true only dnt spam only for spam because you think somethink and you onlh read somethings or hear somethings.

[intrepd]

So I was a 46 war and i actually enjoyed when tanks were using Bulwark and Aegis because clashes there depends on the team and teamwork but now once tanks got their sword there is no need for teamwork no need for Jugg and Horn sync either you just rush the enemy DPS and she will eventually die before your juggernaut runs out, i agree with armor back but it's better to wait for 56 gear to find out maybe rogues does not need armor at 56 since new gear might be OP for them? Just wait for 56
Warriors does high damage now and they are not suppose to deal that damage
Warriors do not need either int or dex in their stats because passive -gears and pet provides them with it and unlike rogues they have a skill that regens mana also Sky smash has a chance to refill the cost of mana it did.

[Binlaggin]

1. Every class does this, it's nothing new. It's bonus points - it's not something that one needs to make a compromise for like rogues having to compromise their jewels by having to insert ones that give HP or Mana. Warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
2. Again, warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
3. No, int is not needed if you're maxed out. Passive int is a given, your build should have room for it.




Tanks at end game can wipe 3 people at a time, what do you mean that tanks do not hit hard?


It's the sword that's making tanks strong. The sword is lvl 46 and we're now 56 cap. New items are certainly coming to replace these.

[Zeus]

It's the sword that's making tanks strong. The sword is lvl 46 and we're now 56 cap. New items are certainly coming to replace these.

Maul was strong for multiple seasons. A sword that can stun and do insane amounts of damage per tick will not be replaced by stats alone. Additionally, one must also consider that when it does get replaced, there will be something even more powerful than that sword. Imagine that...if you think the lava sword is bad, how OP must be the thing that replaces it?

[Ticklish]

Seeing as how ive shown this change had nothing to do with balance, my theory and a theory i know others share is that this nerf was for the sake of $$$$. Dont u find it rather convenient that just as rogue armor gets nerfed, a new pet that only drops in locks which are opened with plat, bought with $$$$, is released with more armor than any other pet, 228. Isnt it interesting that sts then announces a new mythic weapon with a proc that gives 75% dmg reduction(but then makes u completely useless since u cant use any skills, cant even heal myself and the point of a rogue is to do dmg with skills like wtf). Seems like they are unjustly nerfing rogues and providing 1 subpar alternative that rogues have to pay for with $$$$ or someone else spends the money and rogues spend the gold to still end up weaker than before and have to give up the 40% dmg reduction of nekro.



If there is anything I hate MOST about the rogue nerf, it's this. The timing could not have been better. This may have been a long-winded post, but you make good, solid points. This is not someone who is just randomly crying about his class. He has laid down facts and evidence.

I will say it again. Why nerf rogue armor and release a new arcane pet that ADDS ARMOR at the same time? This isn't about class balance anymore, it's hardcore marketing.

[Fredystern]

I think sts made a mistake to reduce all rogues armor by 20% in arlor, i think they only should reduce lvl 46 and above armor it would be better. Sts should not touch the twink stat anymore.

[Lawpvp]

I think sts made a mistake to reduce all rogues armor by 20% in arlor, i think they only should reduce lvl 46 and above armor it would be better. Sts should not touch the twink stat anymore.

This is a big issue sts has when they apply balance changes. Blanket nerfs/buffs across all lvls is not how to create balance. One word needs to be the driving point behind all future balance changes.

SCALING

[BlueSkied]

If balance is defined as no single class observing gross strength over another, then I believe sts has a drawing board to go back to. This is especially evident at twink pvp levels. Yes, pvp is where all of these supposed "necessary changes" are felt the most. Now, that isn't to say that rogues being fed upon by the stun happy mobs of new and the red zone spewing bosses goes unnoticed, but in pve you can pot to your hearts content and eat all the ankhs (convenient, no?) necessary to finish runs timely and effectively. Tanks can horn, granting a few seconds of no damage. Mages, same with heal. Rogues get a damage and armor debuff.

I've done endgame pvp and that already has been a clown fiesta of one shot kills by dps upon others; tanks are loling away as they chop their sword around creating pools of destruction. But I'm not versed enough there to make hard statements like zues and others. This tank vs rogue clusterffff will never die and there will always be arguments. Threads like this will most assuredly always devolve into flames. I just want the company that created this game we play to try and find a solution other than this uniform nerf across the board. Maybe endgame rogues needed this armor debuff. Twinks certainly didn't.

[Lawpvp]

If balance is defined as no single class observing gross strength over another, then I believe sts has a drawing board to go back to. This is especially evident at twink pvp levels. Yes, pvp is where all of these supposed "necessary changes" are felt the most. Now, that isn't to say that rogues being fed upon by the stun happy mobs of new and the red zone spewing bosses goes unnoticed, but in pve you can pot to your hearts content and eat all the ankhs (convenient, no?) necessary to finish runs timely and effectively. Tanks can horn, granting a few seconds of no damage. Mages, same with heal. Rogues get a damage and armor debuff.

I've done endgame pvp and that already has been a clown fiesta of one shot kills by dps upon others; tanks are loling away as they chop their sword around creating pools of destruction. But I'm not versed enough there to make hard statements like zues and others. This tank vs rogue clusterffff will never die and there will always be arguments. Threads like this will most assuredly always devolve into flames. I just want the company that created this game we play to try and find a solution other than this uniform nerf across the board. Maybe endgame rogues needed this armor debuff. Twinks certainly didn't.

Well said, not to say that endgame isnt still in need of further balancing

[Zeus]

I think sts made a mistake to reduce all rogues armor by 20% in arlor, i think they only should reduce lvl 46 and above armor it would be better. Sts should not touch the twink stat anymore.

Even rogue armor at end game is too weak - have you played in an end game clash? Rogues are pure food, lol.

[supersyan]

3. You are using the wrong build, Or you just lack experience in PvP.

I never said i'm using that build but most tanks use that build. I use AXE, VB, JUGG, HEAL. And i don't lack PVP experience.

[supersyan]

1. Every class does this, it's nothing new. It's bonus points - it's not something that one needs to make a compromise for like rogues having to compromise their jewels by having to insert ones that give HP or Mana. Warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
2. Again, warriors do not have to make this sacrifice.
3. No, int is not needed if you're maxed out. Passive int is a given, your build should have room for it.




Tanks at end game can wipe 3 people at a time, what do you mean that tanks do not hit hard?

1. Yup. so they do spec points on int and dex might and its its not new
2. They have to if they choose between high hp or armor.( the fury jewel or diamond jewel). Tanks use a combination of jewels.
3. we make choices like high strength,high armor, high hp. To obtain this stats we have to give up points one somewhere else and have to use combination of jewels.Fury, nature, diamond

Rogues hit harder. They 1 combo mages, tanks and other rogues. Tanks hit way low compared to rogues.

[supersyan]

Even rogue armor at end game is too weak - have you played in an end game clash? Rogues are pure food, lol.

Mage armor is the weak. Mages are food

[Wazakesy]

1. Yup. so they do spec points on int and dex might and its its not new
2. They have to if they choose between high hp or armor.( the fury jewel or diamond jewel). Tanks use a combination of jewels.
3. we make choices like high strength,high armor, high hp. To obtain this stats we have to give up points one somewhere else and have to use combination of jewels.Fury, nature, diamond

Rogues hit harder. They 1 combo mages, tanks and other rogues. Tanks hit way low compared to rogues.

2&3. You can use base armors with jewel combinations, A simple build that works for you is fine. Every class has to deal with a tradeoff. You trade armor in compensation for STR and DMG, whilst you can simply change the gears and not to forget you can remove jewels so getting the right ratio or going narrow is key.

As Z has already stated, Endgame tanks (W/ Experience) can knock out 3 people at most (even in clash) specifically due to the new dragon hunter sword. Where exactly is the low damage when warriors lava pool the whole map?

[intrepd]

Mage armor is the weak. Mages are food
Most rogues armor are around 1600-1700 while mages are 1600-1550
( is what i noticed ) not even much difference
Mages has 2 shields while we have one shield (Nekro)

[intrepd]

1. Yup. so they do spec points on int and dex might and its its not new
2. They have to if they choose between high hp or armor.( the fury jewel or diamond jewel). Tanks use a combination of jewels.
3. we make choices like high strength,high armor, high hp. To obtain this stats we have to give up points one somewhere else and have to use combination of jewels.Fury, nature, diamond

Rogues hit harder. They 1 combo mages, tanks and other rogues. Tanks hit way low compared to rogues.

1.Why would a tank add dex in his main stats? In passives yes every class does, and for int its not needed since sword adds a huge int bonus and they got a mage in clash to heal mana, if you're talking about vs then dps usually die before tanks mana runs out.
2. Most tanks i know are using reinforced but either gems you said works ( Rogue has to choose between Damage-Armor-Mana-Crit-Hp)
3.High strength means high hp its the same and MOST tanks are all points str, there is no point or mean to even put points in dex.

Tanks hit low? U know that tanks at endgame can kill rogues within almost 15 sec? Jugg cs axe sky and rush the rogue she will end up dying before your jugg is over.

[dexish]

Cd of jugg is long. its 45 sec. May be the tanks at twinks level hit hard but not the tanks at the end game
Uh...tanks at end game don't even need to hit...just use sword proc+axe throw+stun

[Fredystern]

Even rogue armor at end game is too weak - have you played in an end game clash? Rogues are pure food, lol.

I know it since i already have some clash yesterday using my mage rogues too fast, but mage without shield faster get killed '-'

[Tentenzz]

Now pvp dont need rogue anymore.. :'( when I enter ctf/tdm, I have to get out since all tank on the other side.. I (rogue) feel useless..

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

[supersyan]

Most rogues armor are around 1600-1700 while mages are 1600-1550
( is what i noticed ) not even much difference
Mages has 2 shields while we have one shield (Nekro)

Historically Mage armor is still less compared to rogues . The shield last only until a certain amount of damage is absorbed. And rogues do overwhelming damage to break the shield.

[supersyan]

1.Why would a tank add dex in his main stats? In passives yes every class does, and for int its not needed since sword adds a huge int bonus and they got a mage in clash to heal mana, if you're talking about vs then dps usually die before tanks mana runs out.
2. Most tanks i know are using reinforced but either gems you said works ( Rogue has to choose between Damage-Armor-Mana-Crit-Hp)
3.High strength means high hp its the same and MOST tanks are all points str, there is no point or mean to even put points in dex.

Tanks hit low? U know that tanks at endgame can kill rogues within almost 15 sec? Jugg cs axe sky and rush the rogue she will end up dying before your jugg is over.

1. The passive int, str, dex don't get added to main stats? SO its part of the main stats. i may be wrong. Mage heal everyone on team in clash and not only tank. The sword feels op because you are getting caught in lave pool which does devastating aoe damage. And axe can only pull one target at a time. unless you are using glinstone set.
2. Yes every class has to make choices
3. Yes if you consider the passive str, dex and int which added to the main stats

Rogue can kill tanks within 5 sec as well. Auto attack stun>AS>NEKRO AA> AS - BOOM

[supersyan]

Meanwhile in game ....

150359

[supersyan]

For those thinking i'm supporting tank class because i'm tank and want to stay top of the food chain forever. Your WRONG

What i'm saying is the recent buff to jugg and the new arcane sword is greatly helpful to tanks who were isolated from the game for long time. And if it does have negative impact on other class or at any level, then a review by developer is necessary.
And i'm in no way supporting or against this Buff Nerf game.
And i no longer want to continue on this thread because people are very sensitive and don't like personal attacks in game or forum. And i'm in no way want to start a flame war or hate discussion. Thank you. Cyah buddies, Take Care

We duh PizzaH!

[xRyuzanki]

Meanwhile in game ....

150359

Report him for bad mouthing u !
A ppl like that must get banned for weeks

[Lawpvp]

For those thinking i'm supporting tank class because i'm tank and want to stay top of the food chain forever. Your WRONG

What i'm saying is the recent buff to jugg and the new arcane sword is greatly helpful to tanks who were isolated from the game for long time. And if it does have negative impact on other class or at any level, then a review by developer is necessary.
And i'm in no way supporting or against this Buff Nerf game.
And i no longer want to continue on this thread because people are very sensitive and don't like personal attacks in game or forum. And i'm in no way want to start a flame war or hate discussion. Thank you. Cyah buddies, Take Care

We duh PizzaH!

When u made absurd comments like "warriors need int for hp" thus showing u know nothing about warriors, what do u expect.

[intrepd]

1. The passive int, str, dex don't get added to main stats? SO its part of the main stats. i may be wrong. Mage heal everyone on team in clash and not only tank. The sword feels op because you are getting caught in lave pool which does devastating aoe damage. And axe can only pull one target at a time. unless you are using glinstone set.
2. Yes every class has to make choices
3. Yes if you consider the passive str, dex and int which added to the main stats

Rogue can kill tanks within 5 sec as well. Auto attack stun>AS>NEKRO AA> AS - BOOM


1) Exactly mage heals everyone so why need the int since they already have enough mana and a mage to heal?

2) Well most tanks does not have to make a choice because its either HP or Armor but they can use Grand reinforced.


3) Every class used Str int dec in passive but tanks DOES NOT use int and dex in main stats.

Rogues CAN NOT kill tanks within 5 seconds if they are on juggernaut so it's simple
Tanks : Jugg and rush with axe cs sky and they're going to kill rogue within less than 15 sec and won't even die.

[intrepd]

Historically Mage armor is still less compared to rogues . The shield last only until a certain amount of damage is absorbed. And rogues do overwhelming damage to break the shield.


You know that mages does almost as much damage as rogues now with crit? Their lighting is the same as AS and they have around 50% crit with full eyes if not more, plus their shield can absorb damage and its invisible for 2 seconds.

[Pedgon]

oh wow, very long post regarding your unhappiness.
Just remember tanks went through it for over a year and a half.. Try being a tank in that moment, before sts took forever to fix 1 skill and getting 1/2 shotted through your jugg with rogues who almost had the same armor as some tanks, and 1million x the dmg/dps factor. i have no sympathy for rogues. You are clearly what you are meant to be now, which is paper. Not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot now is it? In any mmorpg i have played, Warrior is what it is meant to be, Taunt,soak up dmg, have rage/vengeful factor, crazy amounts of health and basically survive(almost never dying). Rogues in A.l are what they are meant to be, currently. Easy to kill, but if you dont watch out, they can kill just as easily. They're Fast. But otherwise meant to be easy to die.. In no rpg/mmorpg iv ever played, was there a rogue class which was equal to a warrior or better. So i dont see the arguments or complaints, now that the game is balanced. Perhaps alot of you who are crying are the ones who cant handle elite runs or keep dying in elite timed runs. Like somebody else mentioned.. Adjust your gear. Add health/diamond jewels. Oh ofcos, its not as great as your +8/+9 jewels? or eyes/paras on older gear. To bad, adjust to the new criteria. You shouldnt be dealing so much dmg anyway imo.. Sts should nerf that too.

Thank you for saying the "real" truth!

Btw, on level 56, rogues can now crit 6.5k-7.5k on max tanks..not all the time but they can reach these crits easily when no nekro shield on, which means almost instant dead for a warrior; so..complaining about armor nerf must has to be a joke..seriously. I know we have juggernaut, but that only lasts 15 sec, then we are fighting 25-30 sec (depending on mastery) with only 3 skills (2 attack). On the other hand, we, tanks, can only crit between 2k-2.5k on rogue or mage, with luck! It's usually way less than that, particularly with no crit..

Guys, honestly, the game had never been so balanced or fair than what it is right now. Warriors can finally be useful and effective in pve now, and, being season 1 player, I can't remember pvp being so balanced between classes than today...or suddenly rogues have forgotten ALL previous seasons when they were more than OP (pve and pvp) comparing with mages and tanks?? Not for talking about the fact rogues have always been THE pve class in AL, since 1st season, period! Mages and tanks already accepted pve LB as it is...pretty much a utopia for us..

I can accept that less 300-500 armor (for what I've heard..) it's a lot, yes, maybe the nerf was too big (adding 100-150 more would be acceptable/fair)..but giving all armor back (remove the nerf, basically) will make AL what it always was...rogues >>>>>>> mages/tanks!

So, please, stop crying on a "NO question"..this remembers me when you complain about the damage nerf in pvp. Can you imagine what pvp would be with no damage nerf on rogue? I can - "1 single aimed shot = max tank -> DEAD" so...no thanks! This does not seem balanced to me, at all...

Imo, nowadays, the only problem/s in AL is the tons of bugs/glitches, THIS needs to be fix ASAP..and nothing else!

[yubaraj]

Imo ,

instead of nerfing rogue's armor, sts should have buffed mage's armor. It would have create less problems.

I would like to suggest sts to give armor back to rogue but buff some armor for mages.

I guess It would make mages more competitive with warriors and rogues in all pvp brackets. Second, pve rogue will stop complaining but Idk about pvp rogues at endgame.

TBH warriors are op in pvp now with glint set and arcane sword.

I hope level 56 will be more balanced.

[Anyona]

Thank you for saying the "real" truth!

Btw, on level 56, rogues can now crit 6.5k-7.5k on max tanks..not all the time but they can reach these crits easily when no nekro shield on, which means almost instant dead for a warrior; so..complaining about armor nerf must has to be a joke..seriously. I know we have juggernaut, but that only lasts 15 sec, then we are fighting 25-30 sec (depending on mastery) with only 3 skills (2 attack). On the other hand, we, tanks, can only crit between 2k-2.5k on rogue or mage, with luck! It's usually way less than that, particularly with no crit..

Guys, honestly, the game had never been so balanced or fair than what it is right now. Warriors can finally be useful and effective in pve now, and, being season 1 player, I can't remember pvp being so balanced between classes than today...or suddenly rogues have forgotten ALL previous seasons when they were more than OP (pve and pvp) comparing with mages and tanks?? Not for talking about the fact rogues have always been THE pve class in AL, since 1st season, period! Mages and tanks already accepted pve LB as it is...pretty much a utopia for us..

I can accept that less 300-500 armor (for what I've heard..) it's a lot, yes, maybe the nerf was too big (adding 100-150 more would be acceptable/fair)..but giving all armor back (remove the nerf, basically) will make AL what it always was...rogues >>>>>>> mages/tanks!

So, please, stop crying on a "NO question"..this remembers me when you complain about the damage nerf in pvp. Can you imagine what pvp would be with no damage nerf on rogue? I can - "1 single aimed shot = max tank -> DEAD" so...no thanks! This does not seem balanced to me, at all...

Imo, nowadays, the only problem/s in AL is the tons of bugs/glitches, THIS needs to be fix ASAP..and nothing else!

A single weapon should not be the answer to balance within any game. You're single handedly reliant on one weapon and specifically one proc.

It starts to become ridiculous though when your proc does more damage than a skill, in regards of Lightning bolt. The lava pools do approximately 300-350 damage per tick, these pools are stackable and I believe max at 10 per proc. So let's do some math 10x 300-350 = 3000-3500 raw damage.

Lets also note that mages have no form of armor debuff within their skills so they're heavily reliant on that debuff coming from their pet. Without armor debuff, a critical lightning will hit around 1.5-2k damage on a tank. It starts to become a joke when all tanks have to do is spam a proc with no cool down and do more damage than a dps.

It's a different story for rogues but I am solely focusing on mages as it's the class I currently play.

I am all for balance in any game but when one class is unbeatable it's ridiculous. You got a juggernaut buff, it's now unbreakable. Within a clash, you will always be under either juggernaut or nekro shield so that's 100% immunity to stuns. The only way you're going to get killed is if you get pulled, it's likely but by then I'd expect the other team to be dead.

It's crazy to deny that tanks are currently op. They've had it tough in most of the expansions but I think people are forgetting that you received a maul which in terms of skill damage, gives the highest amount in game.

Also it would be foolish to forget how good the arcane maul was during the Nordr and Shuyal expansions.

[Anyona]

Most rogues armor are around 1600-1700 while mages are 1600-1550
( is what i noticed ) not even much difference
Mages has 2 shields while we have one shield (Nekro)

For a mage, nekro is useless when vsing a rogue. You're better of using SnS as it's healing is far superior to a shield you're crit 3-4k on.

It's debatable whether or not SnS is the better pet for mages. In my opinion I believe it is better than Nekro if you know how to use it correctly.

[intrepd]

For a mage, nekro is useless when vsing a rogue. You're better of using SnS as it's healing is far superior to a shield you're crit 3-4k on.

It's debatable whether or not SnS is the better pet for mages. In my opinion I believe it is better than Nekro if you know how to use it correctly.


I was talking as for general, twinks too

[Ticklish]

Thank you for saying the "real" truth!

I can accept that less 300-500 armor (for what I've heard..) it's a lot, yes, maybe the nerf was too big (adding 100-150 more would be acceptable/fair)..but giving all armor back (remove the nerf, basically) will make AL what it always was...rogues >>>>>>> mages/tanks!

Imo, nowadays, the only problem/s in AL is the tons of bugs/glitches, THIS needs to be fix ASAP..and nothing else!


Give us back at least 150-200 of our armor. That's less than half of what was nerfed. Pve rogues can rely on tanks and pots, but in pvp, we die as much, if not more than we can kill.

[Pedgon]

Give us back at least 150-200 of our armor. That's less than half of what was nerfed. Pve rogues can rely on tanks and pots, but in pvp, we die as much, if not more than we can kill.

Yes, like I said, the nerf was a little too much, and that's the only thing I have to agree with rogues! But some of you want much more than get your armor back, if you read all these posts, you'll figure it out. Some of you are simply using this problem to nerf tanks after.."oh sword is so OP..that proc...zzz", "omg!! jugger makes tanks invincible!! :(" (ye coz jugger lasts forever ...fml-.- 15 sec..then we fight 25-30 sec with 3 skills) etc. I believe for some, the real problem are tanks, and that's what they want to nerf, armor nerf it's just an excuse imo...just saying...

I can agree that the proc from arcane sword does lots of damage, yes, but if you remove proc, or nerf it to a point of total uselessness, in that case, this weapon becomes garbage (it's arcane...)..so welcome then to the time where tanks are food again..maybe even worse than before, in previous seasons. We have no other competitive weapon to pvp these days (coz for pve I still think aegis shield weapon is the best)..and like I said, the damage from rogues and mages on level 56 is extremely high, we need to counterbalance that in someway no? Otherwise, we are just a big hunk of meat, ready to get slaughtered..as we were throughtout pevious seasons..

Too much cynicism around here..for real..

[uehi]

Yes, like I said, the nerf was a little too much, and that's the only thing I have to agree with rogues! But some of you want much more than get your armor back, if you read all these posts, you'll figure it out. Some of you are simply using this problem to nerf tanks after.."oh sword is so OP..that proc...zzz", "omg!! jugger makes tanks invincible!! :(" (ye coz jugger lasts forever ...fml-.- 15 sec..then we fight 25-30 sec with 3 skills) etc. I believe for some, the real problem are tanks, and that's what they want to nerf, armor nerf it's just an excuse imo...just saying...

I can agree that the proc from arcane sword does lots of damage, yes, but if you remove proc, or nerf it to a point of total uselessness, in that case, this weapon becomes garbage (it's arcane...)..so welcome then to the time where tanks are food again..maybe even worse than before, in previous seasons. We have no other competitive weapon to pvp these days (coz for pve I still think aegis shield weapon is the best)..and like I said, the damage from rogues and mages on level 56 is extremely high, we need to counterbalance that in someway no? Otherwise, we are just a big hunk of meat, ready to get slaughtered..as we were throughtout pevious seasons..

Too much cynicism around here..for real..
you scared about dominate warior"? Or what:? Before Nerf We can vs and both class can win after nerf you know Rogue is food. so where is yr porblem with rogue:?

[Zeus]

Yes, like I said, the nerf was a little too much, and that's the only thing I have to agree with rogues! But some of you want much more than get your armor back, if you read all these posts, you'll figure it out. Some of you are simply using this problem to nerf tanks after.."oh sword is so OP..that proc...zzz", "omg!! jugger makes tanks invincible!! :(" (ye coz jugger lasts forever ...fml-.- 15 sec..then we fight 25-30 sec with 3 skills) etc. I believe for some, the real problem are tanks, and that's what they want to nerf, armor nerf it's just an excuse imo...just saying...

I can agree that the proc from arcane sword does lots of damage, yes, but if you remove proc, or nerf it to a point of total uselessness, in that case, this weapon becomes garbage (it's arcane...)..so welcome then to the time where tanks are food again..maybe even worse than before, in previous seasons. We have no other competitive weapon to pvp these days (coz for pve I still think aegis shield weapon is the best)..and like I said, the damage from rogues and mages on level 56 is extremely high, we need to counterbalance that in someway no? Otherwise, we are just a big hunk of meat, ready to get slaughtered..as we were throughtout pevious seasons..

Too much cynicism around here..for real..

I agree, I do want to keep the balance as well. I think that we should first bring back the armor and then see how things are. It was unduly nerfed and without it, rogues are essentially useless.

[Ticklish]

Yes, like I said, the nerf was a little too much, and that's the only thing I have to agree with rogues! But some of you want much more than get your armor back, if you read all these posts, you'll figure it out. Some of you are simply using this problem to nerf tanks after.."oh sword is so OP..that proc...zzz", "omg!! jugger makes tanks invincible!! :(" (ye coz jugger lasts forever ...fml-.- 15 sec..then we fight 25-30 sec with 3 skills) etc. I believe for some, the real problem are tanks, and that's what they want to nerf, armor nerf it's just an excuse imo...just saying...

I can agree that the proc from arcane sword does lots of damage, yes, but if you remove proc, or nerf it to a point of total uselessness, in that case, this weapon becomes garbage (it's arcane...)..so welcome then to the time where tanks are food again..maybe even worse than before, in previous seasons. We have no other competitive weapon to pvp these days (coz for pve I still think aegis shield weapon is the best)..and like I said, the damage from rogues and mages on level 56 is extremely high, we need to counterbalance that in someway no? Otherwise, we are just a big hunk of meat, ready to get slaughtered..as we were throughtout pevious seasons..

Too much cynicism around here..for real..

The windmill bug was around for a whole season, if not two (unless I'm mistaken). The arcane maul was OP for several seasons. Rogues are not asking for tanks to get nerfed, if that's what you are taking away from this discussion. The sword is indeed OP, and what makes it feel more OP is the debilitating lack of armor. As I pointed out earlier, or probably on a different topic, I am pretty much mostly disappointed at the armor nerf because it coincided with the launch of Munch Mouth. That, to me is just basically crippling rogues for the sake of marketing. Let's face it, rogues make up much of the playerbase at the moment. What better way to boost sales from an arcane pet that boosts armor, right? Make the largest population NEED IT. That to me, is downright unfair.

[uehi]

Imo ,

instead of nerfing rogue's armor, sts should have buffed mage's armor. It would have create less problems.

I would like to suggest sts to give armor back to rogue but buff some armor for mages.

I guess It would make mages more competitive with warriors and rogues in all pvp brackets. Second, pve rogue will stop complaining but Idk about pvp rogues at endgame.

TBH warriors are op in pvp now with glint set and arcane sword.

I hope level 56 will be more balanced.

if you dnt know mage can get armor like 1700-1900 last season or can crit like 40-50 we have in forum thread. why should i chose crit or armor. all answers is chose crit more armor like 1500 you dnt need. Dnt be ignorant. Why all answers is chose more power like more armod because skill give more advance for survive and for better timing if you dnt understand this point change class play rog warior try understad all points dnt be nab ignirant i say this always try understand all class skill before you say somethings stupid.

[Rogueuchiha]

do it, this game is now bore, PVE and PVP is broke. i delete my rogue, war is not Because op in pvp, is beacuse anyone can kill with a single combo. Sts failed to Maintain a Balance Between dmg / armor for each class. Dmg is so high and armor is so low

[yubaraj]

if you dnt know mage can get armor like 1700-1900 last season or can crit like 40-50 we have in forum thread. why should i chose crit or armor. all answers is chose crit more armor like 1500 you dnt need. Dnt be ignorant. Why all answers is chose more power like more armod because skill give more advance for survive and for better timing if you dnt understand this point change class play rog warior try understad all points dnt be nab ignirant i say this always try understand all class skill before you say somethings stupid.

Yap, you seem to be expert in all classes. But can you plz post ss or any sort which shows mage has 1700 to 1900 armor without lix. And you may also know elixir can be used in pvp too.

[Zeus]

Yap, you seem to be expert in all classes. But can you plz post ss or any sort which shows mage has 1700 to 1900 armor without lix. And you may also know elixir can be used in pvp too.

Check out Gothiac, has 1700 armor without shaman elixir compared to my 1700 as a rogue...On top of that, mages have a shield so they don't have to use Nekro and can use pets that further boost their stats like Munch Mouth or SnS.

This isn't about nerfing mages, it's just showing how ridiculous the rogue armor nerf was. If people are quitting rogue, there's a problem that needs to be fixed.

[yubaraj]

Check out Gothiac, has 1700 armor without shaman elixir compared to my 1700 as a rogue...On top of that, mages have a shield so they don't have to use Nekro and can use pets that further boost their stats like Munch Mouth or SnS.

This isn't about nerfing mages, it's just showing how ridiculous the rogue armor nerf was. If people are quitting rogue, there's a problem that needs to be fixed.

So, you are saying Mage and rogue's armor is same?

I don't know how come Gothiac has 1700 armor. reinforced gem, diamond jewel or pet bonus?

Spill some secret plz. Sharing is caring lol.

Even I play pvp on my Mage, even I know how op they were I agree they need armor back or at least portion. I don't want to see rogues quitting the game. Let's play for fun not fight with each other in personal level.

I hope to see pvp rooms with all classes, not only warriors.

[Manuel Emilio]

Why all talk only about endgame? The nerf affected too low lvl PvP, full rogue can't survive against 2 Mage 2 war, I can easily kill two regular 15 rogue at the same time (my war is noob lvl 15 with Swift and Gobling, full Diamond Gear, my stats are 3k HP, 100 DMG and 1k+ armor) the low lvl is not balanced (I don't care endgame).

Enviado desde mi B1-730 mediante Tapatalk

[Right]

taking off armor from rouges was the balance this game need it and finally happen ,remember how rouges use to treat warriors or do i have to remind you? the devs have finally come to their senses .you want your armor back to be like you use to be a ego maniac,this game dont revolve around rouges right

[Right]

Why all talk only about endgame? The nerf affected too low lvl PvP, full rogue can't survive against 2 Mage 2 war, I can easily kill two regular 15 rogue at the same time (my war is noob lvl 15 with Swift and Gobling, full Diamond Gear, my stats are 3k HP, 100 DMG and 1k+ armor) the low lvl is not balanced (I don't care endgame).

Enviado desde mi B1-730 mediante Tapatalk

Twinks are just for fun their not taking seriously

[Manuel Emilio]

Twinks are just for fun their not taking seriously
Said that to the lvl 15 rogues, actually there is no rogues un my lvl. (Kill 13/14 is boring kill 17 is imposible for a noib like me).

[Lawpvp]

Twinks are just for fun their not taking seriously

Get off my thread, people like u are the reason sts messes everything up. They listen to people on forums who have no clue what they are talking about like u and the supersyan person saying warriors need int for health instead of playing their own game to understand balance. Why do endgame players deserve balance anymore than twinks? Character level doesnt give u anymore entitlement over another player, so once again ill say it, get the f off this thread if thats going to be ur attitude

[Lawpvp]

taking off armor from rouges was the balance this game need it and finally happen ,remember how rouges use to treat warriors or do i have to remind you? the devs have finally come to their senses .you want your armor back to be like you use to be a ego maniac,this game dont revolve around rouges right

Im guessing ur one of the noob tanks who cant land a feeble for ur life and now that tanks have godmode in pvp and u can suck but still get kills, u dont want it to go back to the way it was. And considering this thread now had over 2000 views, more than any other recent thread in general discussion not created by a dev/mod, and it was made 2 days ago, clearly this is a significant issue to the arlor community that needs to be addressed. Stop feigning ignorance to cover up for ur lack of skill in game

[Safiras]

taking off armor from rouges was the balance this game need it and finally happen ,remember how rouges use to treat warriors or do i have to remind you? the devs have finally come to their senses .you want your armor back to be like you use to be a ego maniac,this game dont revolve around rouges right

This is getting tiresome. Rogues never laughed at tanks, we wanted a fairer game and we also pushed for tank upgrades with the rest of the community so that our tank friends wouldn't quit. When tanks got the Aegis and the Juggernaut buff we were happy because then we could actually run with tanks and have a significant benefit (less deaths, faster runs if the tank can use the Aegis properly). I know tanks have gotten the short end of the stick for a long time and rogues have been the preferred and dominant class up till the Arcane sword and rogue armor nerf, but it is NOT OUR FAULT. Don't talk like we have resisted every attempt to give tanks a buff. People are asking for the nerf to our armor to be at least moderated, and that is a fair request.

Plus I hope you don't brush off twinks. It's like (as you claim) rogues brushing off tanks as unimportant since they form only a "small" part of the community and shouldn't be taken seriously. Please don't be a hypocrite, you make yourself sound self-serving instead of offering an objective and considered post on this issue.

[intrepd]

taking off armor from rouges was the balance this game need it and finally happen ,remember how rouges use to treat warriors or do i have to remind you? the devs have finally come to their senses .you want your armor back to be like you use to be a ego maniac,this game dont revolve around rouges right

So you're saying that it's balanced since tanks does a real high damage with arcane sword and pools also with their invisible godmode for 15 seconds? Juggernaut buff is acceptable even i wanted tanks to get their jugg buffed but not deal that high amount of damage, if rogues purpose is to deal damage, mage to support, tank to cover then they are NOT suppose to deal that high damage, again I'm not even asking for tanks nerf but asking for rogues to get their armor back.
Before when it was Rogue legends there was a need of tanks and MUST have a tank or more in each team or else you would lose, unless its a DPS clash but now there is NO need for a rogue in team you can stack tanks or just swap rogues with more mages.
Nowaday clashes are 3 tanks 2 mages? No rogue involved because they are way too paper

For those who says rogue armor is more then I've got a question for you "Why do they prefer to stack mages than getting a rogue in nowadays clash?"

[Tentenzz]

No one need rogue anymore in a clash.. they either call war or mage.. I feel useless 😟

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

[Eagle Eye229]

People are mad because this RPG game is not designed around pvp(you will find that a lot of sts best information and unbais and objective feedback comes from people who haven't stuck a bunch of money into the game only to be disappointed for whatever reason.)THIS IS NOT A PVP GAME.NO ONE TELLS YOU TO PVP ON A MOBILE GAME.I also love how much you all talk about balance ect ect,but I bet you have no clue what kind of work goes into "balancing" a RPG. It will never happen and to an even greater extent,it will not happen in pvp.period.

If it was such an EASY fix as you all make it seem,then let's hear the numbers.what ideas you got?Anything besides "tanks too tanky,rogues paper unfair, not like it used to be,change it back".

I'm suprised since it's so easy to balance out a game (sorry,strictly pvp in a RPG game) that this game isnt perfect.

GO PLAY ANY BLIZZARD GAME,THEN GO TO ANY LVL PVP.SEE HOW SCREWED IT IS EVEN FOR A BILLION DOLLAR DEV TEAM!

OR TRY GEARBOX PVP.SAME THING.

BUT YOU EXPECT STS TO FIGURE OUT THE GOLDEN FORMAT TO BALANCE PVP IN A ROLE PLAYING GAME.

if anyone wants to further any conversation in regards to anything I've said,pm me.

[Lawpvp]

People are mad because this RPG game is not designed around pvp(you will find that a lot of sts best information and unbais and objective feedback comes from people who haven't stuck a bunch of money into the game only to be disappointed for whatever reason.)THIS IS NOT A PVP GAME.NO ONE TELLS YOU TO PVP ON A MOBILE GAME.I also love how much you all talk about balance ect ect,but I bet you have no clue what kind of work goes into "balancing" a RPG. It will never happen and to an even greater extent,it will not happen in pvp.period.

If it was such an EASY fix as you all make it seem,then let's hear the numbers.what ideas you got?Anything besides "tanks too tanky,rogues paper unfair, not like it used to be,change it back".

I'm suprised since it's so easy to balance out a game (sorry,strictly pvp in a RPG game) that this game isnt perfect.

GO PLAY ANY BLIZZARD GAME,THEN GO TO ANY LVL PVP.SEE HOW SCREWED IT IS EVEN FOR A BILLION DOLLAR DEV TEAM!

OR TRY GEARBOX PVP.SAME THING.

BUT YOU EXPECT STS TO FIGURE OUT THE GOLDEN FORMAT TO BALANCE PVP IN A ROLE PLAYING GAME.

if anyone wants to further any conversation in regards to anything I've said,pm me.

Reduce rogue armor nerf to only 5% of where rogue armor previously was
Buff mage armor by 10%
Fix galen maul to only proc once and not have hidden armor reduction
Reduce damage on autos of mage crate guns
Make juggernaut dmg reduction scale, hitting 65% around lvl 41 and flatlining there
Make vengeful blood scale so it doesnt give 50 str at lvl 2. Start at maybe 10 str at lvl 1 and add 1-1.5 str per level, notice this is a slight buff to endgame warriors
Reduce the number of pools created by arc sword, or reduce the duration of the lava
Reduce the crit dmg on autos of whatever that mage gun is zeus mentioned

Make all these changes and the game will be much more balanced, wont be perfect but a whole lot closer, then from here see what else needs changed,

Sts has 3 classes each of which uses 4 skills at a time
Wow has many more classes that use 5x as many skills
Im not asking for pvp to be perfectly balanced, but when they make it more imbalanced then i have a right to point out their deficiencies
And if u havent noticed, all the old wow players say the current expansion sucks

[Right]

No one need rogue anymore in a clash.. they either call war or mage.. I feel useless ��

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

stand far away and pew pew your arrows use your op damage and crit dexterity at it best right

[intrepd]

stand far away and pew pew your arrows use your op damage and crit dexterity at it best right


Ever heard of axe throw or glintstone set?

[Zeus]

stand far away and pew pew your arrows use your op damage and crit dexterity at it best right

Not really, because Mage and tank both have enough damage to rush and overwhelm any distance a rogue might have between the two classes. Have you ever clashed before...? Not to mention all the speed debuffs in a clash make it impossible to run for too long. Also, people stack tanks now. Clashes are typically 3 tank 2 mage because that's the most efficient set up. That alone should tell you that there's something wrong with the gsme.


Ever heard of axe throw or glintstone set?

Lol! Yes, that too!

[Pedgon]

I agree, I do want to keep the balance as well. I think that we should first bring back the armor and then see how things are. It was unduly nerfed and without it, rogues are essentially useless.

Yes! STG should give rogues around 40-50% of the removed armor..I think that should solve the problem.

[epicrrr]

Rogue "nerf for game balance" was generally good on; paper, numbers and for limited pvp 1v1 2v2 and maybe pve, -dmg -armor too much, we've lost 10%(approx) auto dmg nerf and % bonus dmg from a pet, hope they gives this damage back to us it should be kill fast:die fast.

So yeah.. maybe about time to hang up those bow and quiver..

[Pedgon]

This is getting tiresome. Rogues never laughed at tanks, we wanted a fairer game and we also pushed for tank upgrades with the rest of the community so that our tank friends wouldn't quit. When tanks got the Aegis and the Juggernaut buff we were happy because then we could actually run with tanks and have a significant benefit (less deaths, faster runs if the tank can use the Aegis properly). I know tanks have gotten the short end of the stick for a long time and rogues have been the preferred and dominant class up till the Arcane sword and rogue armor nerf, but it is NOT OUR FAULT. Don't talk like we have resisted every attempt to give tanks a buff. People are asking for the nerf to our armor to be at least moderated, and that is a fair request.

Plus I hope you don't brush off twinks. It's like (as you claim) rogues brushing off tanks as unimportant since they form only a "small" part of the community and shouldn't be taken seriously. Please don't be a hypocrite, you make yourself sound self-serving instead of offering an objective and considered post on this issue.

This...thank you saf!

[Right]

Not really, because Mage and tank both have enough damage to rush and overwhelm any distance a rogue might have between the two classes. Have you ever clashed before...? Not to mention all the speed debuffs in a clash make it impossible to run for too long. Also, people stack tanks now. Clashes are typically 3 tank 2 mage because that's the most efficient set up. That alone should tell you that there's something wrong with the gsme.



Lol! Yes, that too!

so god of thunder. Why cant you set up a team like that 3 tanks and you? that way you can yank all the kills or are you worried that the warriors are going to steal your kills ,since is a team Right? so you want all the precious kills only for you is that right god of thunder? or am i wrong? you cant survive in a team?or your ego is telling you you know what god of thunder lets solo pvp and im going to win 5v1

[Right]

This...thank you saf!

just a question why do you play as a rouge and have a warrior face? isn't the way around?

[Right]

Rogue "nerf for game balance" was generally good on; paper, numbers and for limited pvp 1v1 2v2 and maybe pve, -dmg -armor too much, we've lost 10%(approx) auto dmg nerf and % bonus dmg from a pet, hope they gives this damage back to us it should be kill fast:die fast.

So yeah.. maybe about time to hang up those bow and quiver..

your gonna hang up your twink bow just because they did the right thing of balancing the classes? now how easy can you give up wow did warriors ever gave up? or is it just an excuse to pretend your not gonna play but you are? wow how easy can someone give up

[Ardbeg]

I am not qualified to comment on pvp or twinking. And i have been through this myself when i made a mage during shuyal campaign, when dps checks were introduced and a rogue later after eyes made rogues indestructable. I always had rogue friends to run with (even when consisting of top tanks gone rogue) when the situation was bad for tanks. All i want to contribute now is:
1) We don t have seen a single good lvl 56 item yet, nor new belts. There's plenty of room for adjustments.
2) Please keep in mind, that Tanks current heads up in pvp solely relies on a weapon proc, not the skills (as it does in pve with the aegis) and while the triple axe of the glitstone set is great it is still a big stat sacrifice.
3) From my point of view pve parties are fun again, since mixed classes runs are most rewarding.
As Saf said, i have always been supported in tank threads by friends from other classes, and i will always support other classes myself in the ongoing debate for balance. All i am saying now is: Why not wait with the debate until we tested lvl 56 gear in elites and pvp? We did not make the full transition yet.

[Ticklish]

so god of thunder. Why cant you set up a team like that 3 tanks and you? that way you can yank all the kills or are you worried that the warriors are going to steal your kills ,since is a team Right? so you want all the precious kills only for you is that right god of thunder? or am i wrong? you cant survive in a team?or your ego is telling you you know what god of thunder lets solo pvp and im going to win 5v1

Is that what you think this is about? Zeus not getting kills and dying against tanks? Multiple rogues and tanks have posted here, and yet some choose to think this is a personal issue. Rogues are still able to land kills, but for every kill, they die almost as much, if not more. The armor nerf was sudden, absurdly huge, and had enormous implications across different levels. When rogues are not needed in clashes, you know that something is wrong.

[uehi]

so god of thunder. Why cant you set up a team like that 3 tanks and you? that way you can yank all the kills or are you worried that the warriors are going to steal your kills ,since is a team Right? so you want all the precious kills only for you is that right god of thunder? or am i wrong? you cant survive in a team?or your ego is telling you you know what god of thunder lets solo pvp and im going to win 5v1

Sory man but you dnt ubderstand nothing. No one worried about stolen kils its about uselesss one klass and unbalanced all levels. PLS SHUT UP ABOUT EGO AND talk about klass and balance. Before nerf no one can solo pvp if you play pvp. also pedgon is pro war check leaderboard.

[Zeus]

Yes! STG should give rogues around 40-50% of the removed armor..I think that should solve the problem.

Whoa, 40-50%? No, we need all of it. It was already bad enough with the sword before. It was a nerf that was uncalled for and not even needed because rogues were already the weakest clash in PvP or clash environment.

[uehi]

I am not qualified to comment on pvp or twinking. And i have been through this myself when i made a mage during shuyal campaign, when dps checks were introduced and a rogue later after eyes made rogues indestructable. I always had rogue friends to run with (even when consisting of top tanks gone rogue) when the situation was bad for tanks. All i want to contribute now is:
1) We don t have seen a single good lvl 56 item yet, nor new belts. There's plenty of room for adjustments.
2) Please keep in mind, that Tanks current heads up in pvp solely relies on a weapon proc, not the skills (as it does in pve with the aegis) and while the triple axe of the glitstone set is great it is still a big stat sacrifice.
3) From my point of view pve parties are fun again, since mixed classes runs are most rewarding.
As Saf said, i have always been supported in tank threads by friends from other classes, and i will always support other classes myself in the ongoing debate for balance. All i am saying now is: Why not wait with the debate until we tested lvl 56 gear in elites and pvp? We did not make the full transition yet.
like y say you dnt have advance about pvp and twink you sugest is wait fir new items and stay with broken 1-46 "mayby 56 it fix" " mayby better fix all level before we relese somethings new. im not wwiting and im not expect new items i expect fair play game for all class. Not only for unhappy war without team for elite.
If you think pve need nerf 1 class cor hapoy wwriors you wrong it can be fixed in another way. and without hit all lev rogues and pvp.

[Ardbeg]

like y say you dnt have advance about pvp and twink you sugest is wait fir new items and stay with broken 1-46 "mayby 56 it fix" " mayby better fix all level before we relese somethings new. im not wwiting and im not expect new items i expect fair play game for all class. Not only for unhappy war without team for elite.
If you think pve need nerf 1 class cor hapoy wwriors you wrong it can be fixed in another way. and without hit all lev rogues and pvp.

The 10 lvl cap was deliberately made to leave behind the gear gap that was generated by para and eye gears and the arcane ring. We only made one part of the transition, we did not see any next gen items or proc yet. I am not saying all is fine now as it is, i am just saying this debate is about some already outdated items and a tank item proc.

[intrepd]

so god of thunder. Why cant you set up a team like that 3 tanks and you? that way you can yank all the kills or are you worried that the warriors are going to steal your kills ,since is a team Right? so you want all the precious kills only for you is that right god of thunder? or am i wrong? you cant survive in a team?or your ego is telling you you know what god of thunder lets solo pvp and im going to win 5v1


If you read what he said then he meant that rogues are not needed in clashes anymore because mages does high crit and survive longer also can heal the team so there are many advantages for choosing a mage over a rogue as a DPS, rogues dies way faster but they are the highest damage still yes, no rogue is afraid of getting kill stealed but they dont want to die as much as they kill or even more.

[uehi]

Yes! STG should give rogues around 40-50% of the removed armor..I think that should solve the problem.

If you think 40-50 % can fix somethngs so you wrong xd i know you hapy when you class is only 1 strongest class in arlor but it is not good way. It not good if 1 dominate 1 midle and 1 weak-useles.

[Oezheasate]

Whoa, 40-50%? No, we need all of it. It was already bad enough with the sword before. It was a nerf that was uncalled for and not even needed because rogues were already the weakest clash in PvP or clash environment.

Rogues should be 600-700 armor below equally geared tanks.

[intrepd]

your gonna hang up your twink bow just because they did the right thing of balancing the classes? now how easy can you give up wow did warriors ever gave up? or is it just an excuse to pretend your not gonna play but you are? wow how easy can someone give up


Hes a twink and twink warriors never gave up because they always been the best class in low levels.

[uehi]

Rogues should be 600-700 armor below equally geared tanks.

shouod by why:?

[intrepd]

Rogues should be 600-700 armor below equally geared tanks.


Geared tanks (Real tanks are 3000-3200 armor) and rogues were before nerf 2000 armor - 2200, it's not rogues fault that tanks are deopping their armor inexchange for damage and dps while using sword, its like comparing a naked tank to a maxed rogue and saying that the rogue has more armor than a tank so nerf her.

[Oezheasate]

Geared tanks (Real tanks are 3000-3200 armor) and rogues were before nerf 2000 armor - 2200, it's not rogues fault that tanks are deopping their armor inexchange for damage and dps while using sword, its like comparing a naked tank to a maxed rogue and saying that the rogue has more armor than a tank so nerf her.

Not with sword, which is a tanks dmg weapon, im pretty well geared though far from maxed and i reach 2.47k armor with sword, equally geared rogue had 2.05-2.15k armor. Thats plain wrong.

[Tapash Bose]

That is the new definition of balance :)..

[intrepd]

Not with sword, which is a tanks dmg weapon, im pretty well geared though far from maxed and i reach 2.47k armor with sword, equally geared rogue had 2.05-2.15k armor. Thats plain wrong.

You want armor? Use shield you will reach 3k+ armor then
What do you think shields are made for?
Shield is for armor
Sword less armor and more damage
You are exchanging your armor for damage it's not rogues fault.

There hasn't been a tank nerf it's your gear that got you a low armor because of sword, haven't noticed no one brought out this topic until sword and mythic maul came out?

[uehi]

Rogues should be 600-700 armor below equally geared tanks.
if skills, pet, gear not give advance fir survuve and play with the same efect. so its not the matter how moch behind warior is armor rogue.


Geared tanks (Real tanks are 3000-3200 armor) and rogues were before nerf 2000 armor - 2200, it's not rogues fault that tanks are deopping their armor inexchange for damage and dps while using sword, its like comparing a naked tank to a maxed rogue and saying that the rogue has more armor than a tank so nerf her.

here true.

[Tapash Bose]

Now..please ..please..please..dont spam a serious discussion here....

Do u have any idea how many exquisite diamonds are needed to make up for the lost armor...and how much dmg and criteria u have to sacrifice..? Do you really have any idea what the rogue class is all about ?..
Rogue was never invincible even before nerf in tough elites..only we somewhat managed with potting..
now ur idea seems to be pointing towards making a lvl 56 rogue with 600 dmg and then do Glintstone ...loool..while the warriors should stay with 900 dmg ..
really,..i think sts lately has been accepting suggestion from the likes of you xD

[Tapash Bose]

Thank you for saying the "real" truth!

Btw, on level 56, rogues can now crit 6.5k-7.5k on max tanks..not all the time but they can reach these crits easily when no nekro shield on, which means almost instant dead for a warrior; so..complaining about armor nerf must has to be a joke..seriously. I know we have juggernaut, but that only lasts 15 sec, then we are fighting 25-30 sec (depending on mastery) with only 3 skills (2 attack). On the other hand, we, tanks, can only crit between 2k-2.5k on rogue or mage, with luck! It's usually way less than that, particularly with no crit..

Guys, honestly, the game had never been so balanced or fair than what it is right now. Warriors can finally be useful and effective in pve now, and, being season 1 player, I can't remember pvp being so balanced between classes than today...or suddenly rogues have forgotten ALL previous seasons when they were more than OP (pve and pvp) comparing with mages and tanks?? Not for talking about the fact rogues have always been THE pve class in AL, since 1st season, period! Mages and tanks already accepted pve LB as it is...pretty much a utopia for us..

I can accept that less 300-500 armor (for what I've heard..) it's a lot, yes, maybe the nerf was too big (adding 100-150 more would be acceptable/fair)..but giving all armor back (remove the nerf, basically) will make AL what it always was...rogues >>>>>>> mages/tanks!

So, please, stop crying on a "NO question"..this remembers me when you complain about the damage nerf in pvp. Can you imagine what pvp would be with no damage nerf on rogue? I can - "1 single aimed shot = max tank -> DEAD" so...no thanks! This does not seem balanced to me, at all...

Imo, nowadays, the only problem/s in AL is the tons of bugs/glitches, THIS needs to be fix ASAP..and nothing else!

A very big loooooooool...dont worry sts is thinking about adding aimed shot and lightning to warriors..xD

[Ardbeg]

Now..please ..please..please..dont spam a serious discussion here....

Do u have any idea how many exquisite diamonds are needed to make up for the lost armor...and how much dmg and criteria u have to sacrifice..? Do you really have any idea what the rogue class is all about ?..
Rogue was never invincible even before nerf in tough elites..only we somewhat managed with potting..
now ur idea seems to be pointing towards making a lvl 56 rogue with 600 dmg and then do Glintstone ...loool..while the warriors should stay with 900 dmg ..
really,..i think sts lately has been accepting suggestion from the likes of you xD

Don't shoot me, but making alternative builds and unwanted jewels more attractive is part of the intention. And the 10 lvl gap is to make sure no paras or eyes are left into the equation.

And yes, rogues were invincible in elites, i played one, as i played tank and mage.

[Oezheasate]

You want armor? Use shield you will reach 3k+ armor then
What do you think shields are made for?
Shield is for armor
Sword less armor and more damage
You are exchanging your armor for damage it's not rogues fault.

I mean the 600-700 armor with a damage weapon, cuz we dont have aimed shot so we need health and armor to make up for it.

[Pedgon]

just a question why do you play as a rouge and have a warrior face? isn't the way around?

HEIN?? O.O you've just made my day LOL

[Ardbeg]

Now..please ..please..please..dont spam a serious discussion here....

Do u have any idea how many exquisite diamonds are needed to make up for the lost armor...and how much dmg and criteria u have to sacrifice..? Do you really have any idea what the rogue class is all about ?..
Rogue was never invincible even before nerf in tough elites..only we somewhat managed with potting..
now ur idea seems to be pointing towards making a lvl 56 rogue with 600 dmg and then do Glintstone ...loool..while the warriors should stay with 900 dmg ..
really,..i think sts lately has been accepting suggestion from the likes of you xD

regarding damage: mages and rogues multiply their damage output on crit. tanks get a small benefit compared to that. The real treat tanks have now is from item procs, not from the class itself.

[intrepd]

I mean the 600-700 armor with a damage weapon, cuz we dont have aimed shot so we need health and armor to make up for it.

Sorry but aren't tanks main role is to damage as much as rogues? And again it shouldn't be 700 armor between their armor if you are using a damage weapon and you just said now tanks need hp and armor to make up for Aimshot and light damage they dont need their massive damage now, tanks role is to tank so compare 3200 armor to 2200? Thats around 1000 armor less than you guys, if you decided to use a damage weapon then you have to lose armor of course inexchange of damage and that's what you tanks been doing lately gearing down your armor for damage then spamming forums for "Nerf rogue she have almost our armor" answer this question pls

Why did this nerf rogue start when tanks got their sword only? It didn't start with aegis or bulwark

[Tapash Bose]

Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right? if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?

1.A skilled warrior is always an asset and so I seriously doubt warriors who complain about not getting a party...Problem surely is in them and not in the class
2.If u really are looking for balance then ask the warr dmg to be limited within 500 and then talk and the forum can see how selfless u are..Charity always begins at home
3.For the last 2 years it is the warriors who have been complaining..not the skilled ones but the ones who ppl will never party twice.Search the forums and see how many threads are on that
4.Last it is always a better idea to learn your class better than commenting on other classes

[Pedgon]

A very big loooooooool...dont worry sts is thinking about adding aimed shot and lightning to warriors..xD

Is this a serious comment?

[Tapash Bose]

Don't shoot me, but making alternative builds and unwanted jewels more attractive is part of the intention. And the 10 lvl gap is to make sure no paras or eyes are left into the equation.

And yes, rogues were invincible in elites, i played one, as i played tank and mage.

yes..bcos u never accompanied a rogue anything beyond elite wilds lol..show me even the most op rogue before nerf who can stay alive in elite glinstone wo furiously spamming pots or nekro :)..

[Tapash Bose]

Is this a serious comment?

From the current progress of things..it might me..xD

[Ardbeg]

1.A skilled warrior is always an asset and so I seriously doubt warriors who complain about not getting a party...Problem surely is in them and not in the class
2.If u really are looking for balance then ask the warr dmg to be limited within 500 and then talk and the forum can see how selfless u are..Charity always begins at home
3.For the last 2 years it is the warriors who have been complaining..not the skilled ones but the ones who ppl will never party twice.Search the forums and see how many threads are on that
4.Last it is always a better idea to learn your class better than commenting on other classes

I strongly disagree.
1)Even the best warriors (who did not already turned into rogues) got parties mostly from friends. The reason: Dps checks like in the arena or from a certain planar tomb boss, when having a tank made the runs in fact slower and harder.
2) Damage output of tanks is neglectable, it is mostly important for the healing output of hor, aegis or sword procs deal the real damage. (Aegis pve, sword pvp).This statement is especialky true with glintstone set.
3) Yes, unskilled warriors like Ravagerx, Maarkus, Medievalmodell, Jakubson,..,
4) This is true.

[Avaree]

yes..bcos u never accompanied a rogue anything beyond elite wilds lol..show me even the most op rogue before nerf who can stay alive in elite glinstone wo furiously spamming pots or nekro :)..

Look us up for a party! Love to show you :)

[Ardbeg]

yes..bcos u never accompanied a rogue anything beyond elite wilds lol..show me even the most op rogue before nerf who can stay alive in elite glinstone wo furiously spamming pots or nekro :)..

i retired my rogue in rengol after i got the aegis, and i decided to focus on tank. i ran with a lot of people, so you can have plenty of references besides myself. But this is not the subject of the thread. It s class balance.

[Tapash Bose]

1. Is complete hogwash. The only time a party ever wanted a warrior was when they couldn't find a fourth wheel or the party itself was under geared.
This is from my experiences as an under geared mage in shuyal expansion, and a somewhat decently geared(lies tbh I was under geared for quite a long time in the tindirn expansion).
2. If anything warrior damage is fine especially with the Arcane sword nerf in PvP(nott sure if this was fixed)? Aegis isnfine as it is.
3. Why don't you search the forums yourself?
4. What class do you play?

1.No is true.I have 2/3 warrior friends wo whom i normally never go into tough maps.But I tried with others and had bad experience.Good Skilled warriors are few..i agree
2.By keeping the warr dmg at 800 arent u making the warrior roguey...while the whole thread was about tanky rogues.So u really mean to say...tanky rogues are unacceptable..but roguey warriors are xD
3.I have searched..and filled with was warriors thread asking buff ...though in none of the threads u can see any rogue opposing that...as rogues we do not believe in being good by nerfing other classes....co existence is what we rogues believe in :)
4.I play as a rogue mainly though I have lvl 46 under-geared mage and warrior..and I felt that it was the mage who needed an increase in armor rather than nerfing rogues..but that will make the warriors soooooooooo sad..

[Tapash Bose]

[QUOTE=Ardbeg;2447148]I strongly disagree.
2) Damage output of tanks is neglectable, it is mostly important for the healing output of hor, aegis or sword procs deal the real damage. (Aegis pve, sword pvp).This statement is especialky true with glintstone set.

If it is so neglectable better let stay it at 400..why 800 ? that will bring about more balance for sure..:)

[Ardbeg]

[QUOTE=Ardbeg;2447148]I strongly disagree.
2) Damage output of tanks is neglectable, it is mostly important for the healing output of hor, aegis or sword procs deal the real damage. (Aegis pve, sword pvp).This statement is especialky true with glintstone set.

If it is so neglectable better let stay it at 400..why 800 ? that will bring about more balance for sure..:)

The current pvp problem roots in the damage output from the lava sprouts from the dragon sword proc, not in the skill or autoattack damage. Do some tests with or without gear with a tank friend and find out. The number is misleading.

[Lawpvp]

I am not qualified to comment on pvp or twinking. And i have been through this myself when i made a mage during shuyal campaign, when dps checks were introduced and a rogue later after eyes made rogues indestructable. I always had rogue friends to run with (even when consisting of top tanks gone rogue) when the situation was bad for tanks. All i want to contribute now is:
1) We don t have seen a single good lvl 56 item yet, nor new belts. There's plenty of room for adjustments.
2) Please keep in mind, that Tanks current heads up in pvp solely relies on a weapon proc, not the skills (as it does in pve with the aegis) and while the triple axe of the glitstone set is great it is still a big stat sacrifice.
3) From my point of view pve parties are fun again, since mixed classes runs are most rewarding.
As Saf said, i have always been supported in tank threads by friends from other classes, and i will always support other classes myself in the ongoing debate for balance. All i am saying now is: Why not wait with the debate until we tested lvl 56 gear in elites and pvp? We did not make the full transition yet.

While i agree with your premise as for lvl 56, and i understand you said you cant comment on twinks, the main driving point behind this thread is that sts destroyed the balance of all twink levels, severely hurt the balance of pvp in endgame all for the sake of slightly and improperly trying to balance endgame pve. This still did not solve the issue of tanks being mostly unwanted in runs. I proposed possible alternatives to counterract that, and proposed other moderate changes that would buff mages at endgame, reduce the rogue armor nerf severely but still leave them slightly weaker than before the nerfs, adjust the arcane sword which im sure u admit, is absurd, aswell as fixing bugs associated with twink weapons that allow warriors to dominate those levels even more, in addition to changes to venge and jugg that would buff endgame tanks slightly in exchange for a small arcane sword nerf and bring twink warriors more in line with the other classes. This i came up with in a matter of 5 minutes before i took a shower this morning.

In addition I have developed what i believe to be one of the most complete and comprehensive arguments for why the armor nerf has hurt the state of the game, this thread now has over 3600 views and 140 comments, more than any other recent thread on these forums with the exception of those made my mods/devs. This is a clear problem given the attention its received and I have asked sts to comment on this issue seeing as how it coincidentally coincided with the release of a new arcane pet giving armor and they have remained nearly quiet.

STS PLEASE TELL US ANYTHING, are rogue alterations being considered for twinks and endgame, are they not being considered, failure to give us anything will simply result in me creating another thread until we have your attention.

[Avaree]

In addition I have developed what i believe to be one of the most complete and comprehensive arguments for why the armor nerf has hurt the state of the game, this thread now has over 3600 views and 140 comments, more than any other recent thread on these forums with the exception of those made my mods/devs. This is a clear problem given the attention its received and I have asked sts to comment on this issue seeing as how it coincidentally coincided with the release of a new arcane pet giving armor and they have remained nearly quiet. .

Just saying, (I think many forumers refreshing this thread gave it many views.) views & number of responses does not make any thread comprehensive nor complete. But will agree the devs need to hear all constructive feed back.

[Ardbeg]

While i agree with your premise as for lvl 56, and i understand you said you cant comment on twinks, the main driving point behind this thread is that sts destroyed the balance of all twink levels, severely hurt the balance of pvp in endgame all for the sake of slightly and improperly trying to balance endgame pve. This still did not solve the issue of tanks being mostly unwanted in runs. I proposed possible alternatives to counterract that, and proposed other moderate changes that would buff mages at endgame, reduce the rogue armor nerf severely but still leave them slightly weaker than before the nerfs, adjust the arcane sword which im sure u admit, is absurd, aswell as fixing bugs associated with twink weapons that allow warriors to dominate those levels even more, in addition to changes to venge and jugg that would buff endgame tanks slightly in exchange for a small arcane sword nerf and bring twink warriors more in line with the other classes. This i came up with in a matter of 5 minutes before i took a shower this morning.

In addition I have developed what i believe to be one of the most complete and comprehensive arguments for why the armor nerf has hurt the state of the game, this thread now has over 3600 views and 140 comments, more than any other recent thread on these forums with the exception of those made my mods/devs. This is a clear problem given the attention its received and I have asked sts to comment on this issue seeing as how it coincidentally coincided with the release of a new arcane pet giving armor and they have remained nearly quiet.

STS PLEASE TELL US ANYTHING, are rogue alterations being considered for twinks and endgame, are they not being considered, failure to give us anything will simply result in me creating another thread until we have your attention.

As i understand it, at least Endgame pvp balance problems root in the Dragon sword proc, one single item, not a class superiority. This could be corrected. The twink level most probably needs to be looked at deeply.

However, tanks who know how to handle their aegis and antistun pets are really in high demand now. which is a good thing.
The armor of Munch mouth looks like a fishy coincidence with the nerf, but a lot of people complained after each new arcane pet there s no armor. Just saying, there s still room for a natural explanation.

[Oezheasate]

Armor isnt gonna cut it there is more on that:

Proc the sword, pull and enjoy your madd skillz of your sword. I suggest Devs to go pvp and see whats going on there. This isnt just twink issue this is ALSO AN ENDGAME ISSUE. If 4 warr can run the new maps faster than balanced team then there is a problem in pve aswell.

As others stated on pvp stacking tanks is to key of winning in pvp and its not a joke that they eat up dps like being a dps. but also preserving tank abilities, whats wrong with this damage?

I'm done talking sense, anyone who thinks this is balanced class distrubution they dont know the game PERIOD.

This is not only rogue armor issue, its also that riddiculus arcane sword proc. If they dont change it it will be viable weapon for pvp this season too.

Lastly people who says" Rogues were OP now tables are turned, let the tank shine" go mock yourself! Having a 1m worth of sword doesnt make you pro, this is an insult for all those people who spend extreme amount of time and money into their characters.

Um since when do 4 tank pts run pve faster than a 1 tank pt with three dps? Never, we need the dps for bosses and the lone mobs. Yes tanks are faster on large groups of mobs but we need the rogues to pick off the single targets and kill the boss.

[glendame]

Im fine with rogues armor. just fix stun locks to death combo with arc sword, thats more imba. imo.

[Lawpvp]

Just saying, (I think many forumers refreshing this thread gave it many views.) views & number of responses does not make any thread comprehensive nor complete. But will agree the devs need to hear all constructive feed back.

Yes im sure it has been viewed numerous times by nearly everyone who has commented on here, i was simply using those numbers to show the rogue armor nerf dilemma clearly is of big interest to the community. I wasnt really using that as a basis to say its comprehensive and complete I was more referring to the length and depth of my first post, and as you have said, devs need to hear all constructive feedback and they have yet to show significant acknowledgement regarding the issue many people have with current class balance, not just at endgame but twinks as well and I would like sts to show some regard to this

[intrepd]

For all of you tanks, whenever i read threads about rogues buff i find out that you guys say "This is not PVP game, and the issue was that tanks does low dmg in PVE you guys say that sword damage is not enough and tanks still can't kill mobs and boases as fast in PVE, didn't aegis make a change and allowed tanks to kill mobs faster?

[Manuel Emilio]

Im fine with rogues armor. just fix stun locks to death combo with arc sword, thats more imba. imo.
The problem is not only with PvP, the pve is unbalanced, rogue 18 with normal gear (500 armor, 115 dmg) can't solo the second Dead City Boss, War lvl 13 with the golden skull armor (don't remember the name) can do it, in lvl 40+ is balanced but in low lvls the rogues are dying so fast. (Imagine the KDR 10000 Deaths/3000 Kills). I want a perfect KDR rogue and had to restart the char 3 times in a week.

[Masked]

Yes im sure it has been viewed numerous times by nearly everyone who has commented on here, i was simply using those numbers to show the rogue armor nerf dilemma clearly is of big interest to the community. I wasnt really using that as a basis to say its comprehensive and complete I was more referring to the length and depth of my first post, and as you have said, devs need to hear all constructive feedback and they have yet to show significant acknowledgement regarding the issue many people have with current class balance, not just at endgame but twinks as well and I would like sts to show some regard to this

Guess the below posts are not sufficient for you???


Thx. We're bringing back some of the old devs to work on AL. Expect to see me and Cinco around more :)

Give us a week or so to make a plan based on the feedback. More soon.

- g
There are a few new things this year. The 2 questions thread happened this week. It will take us a bit of time to act on it. Thanks for the patience!

[glendame]

The problem is not only with PvP, the pve is unbalanced, rogue 18 with normal gear (500 armor, 115 dmg) can't solo the second Dead City Boss, War lvl 13 with the golden skull armor (don't remember the name) can do it, in lvl 40+ is balanced but in low lvls the rogues are dying so fast. (Imagine the KDR 10000 Deaths/3000 Kills). I want a perfect KDR rogue and had to restart the char 3 times in a week.

Definitely you will start every time with 10k/3k pve kdr. Your pve skill is, I'm sorry to say this, is inferior. You will never have a perfect pve kdr even if the rogue's armor wasn't debuffed. Are you tanking the mobs and blame your armor rating for your deaths? I'm an average pve player but I can sure do better than that. No offense but most rogues would agree.

[Manuel Emilio]

Definitely you will start every time with 10k/3k pve kdr. Your pve skill is, I'm sorry to say this inferior. You will never have a perfect pve kdr even if the rogue's armor wasn't debuffed. I'm an average pve player but I can sure do better than that. No offense but most rogues would agree.
So, where's the balance? War can have perfect KDR but rogues can't? That's balance? (I'm a war user, I can reach lvl 40 with no die (I did it), rogue or mage can't, that's balance to you? War can solo almost all maps (Normal Backenridge-Firts elite nordr) with no die, rogues/mages can't, I don't see the balance here dude. (Sorry for bad English).

[Masked]

The problem is not only with PvP, the pve is unbalanced, rogue 18 with normal gear (500 armor, 115 dmg) can't solo the second Dead City Boss, War lvl 13 with the golden skull armor (don't remember the name) can do it, in lvl 40+ is balanced but in low lvls the rogues are dying so fast. (Imagine the KDR 10000 Deaths/3000 Kills). I want a perfect KDR rogue and had to restart the char 3 times in a week.

Kelvin...ftw!

[glendame]

So, where's the balance? War can have perfect KDR but rogues can't? That's balance? (I'm a war user, I can reach lvl 40 with no die (I did it), rogue or mage can't, that's balance to you? War can solo almost all maps (Normal Backenridge-Firts elite nordr) with no die, rogues/mages can't, I don't see the balance here dude. (Sorry for bad English).

Dont bluff me pro. Show me screen shot of your zero death pve warrior. I don't think u can produce that SS with 10k/3k kdr on rogue.

[Manuel Emilio]

Dont bluff me pro. Show me screen shot of your zero death pve warrior. I don't think u can produce that as with 10k/3k kdr on rogue.
Give me three weeks for reach lvl 25-30 perfect war KDR, (I can do it in that time). I delete my previous perfect KDR after die against last Shuyal boss.

[glendame]

Give me three weeks for reach lvl 25-30 perfect war KDR, (I can do it in that time). I delete my previous perfect KDR after die against last Shuyal boss.

You can't play poker bud. Just caught you bluffing. :) Now you deleted your warr with perfect pve kdr? Kk I wait. Lol

[Manuel Emilio]

You can't play poker bud. Just caught you bluffing. :) Now you deleted your warr with perfect pve kdr? Kk I wait. Lol
Buddy I said I did it (perfect lvl 40 KDR), I don't keep it because I die, if u die u don't have perfect KDR, only wait three weeks, I will do it again :D

[glendame]

Buddy I said I did it (perfect lvl 40 KDR), I don't keep it because I die, if u die u don't have perfect KDR, only wait three weeks, I will do it again :D

But why you waited 3k deaths on your rogue before reset? XD

[Manuel Emilio]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/febe0731588367300e6a482b95ddc8d6.jpg
But why you waited 3k deaths on your rogue before reset? XD
I don't get 3k Deaths, is just a example

But why you waited 3k deaths on your rogue before reset? XD
I don't get 3k Deaths, is just a example

[Lawpvp]

Guess the below posts are not sufficient for you???

Considering neither of those posts have anything to do with the armor nerf, no

[glendame]

Ok its a misleading example then. But gl with the zero-death plan of yours.

[Masked]

Considering neither of those posts have anything to do with the armor nerf, no


Oh basically they do.....


OK folks, this has been an extremely productive thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?310550-State-of-the-game-two-questions). Here is what we have heard.

Major Caveat: Nothing on this list is on the roadmap, I just want to verify that we are talking about the same things for now:

Make farming worth it:
- Better loot distribution across all maps (bring new life into all the old maps)
- More competitive gears available purely through farming (Planar Tombs was a good model for this).
- More and varied crafting materials, scattered across all maps
- More items like Necro, Planar Pendant, Mythic amulet (farmable crafted)
- Items that are very rare to loot off bosses (high level jewels)
- Scale all elites to current level cap w better loot (crate keys, ankhs, old arcane eggs, combo lix, extra gold, high level jewels)

More/ new loot:
- Better gear progression
- Original stuff, less re-colors
- Add great sets with powerful set bonuses, distributed across crates/ boss drops/ craftables
- More recipes: (Weapons, Eggs, pet food, potions, vanities, ankhs, crate keys, time keys (accelerate crafting))
- Overhaul of the token vendor inventories so people have new shiny things to buy with dragkin tooth, Rengol tokens, Underhul coins, Planar fragments, etc.
- Stashable crafted energy kits
- Vanity “trail” for pets
- 1000 gold, 1000 hp pots, 1000 mana pots

Events that encourage group play:
- 2013 Tarlok event. Most of the time during that event we were on maps, killing bosses after bosses, for a chance of event portal.
- Harvest event, which encourage all three classes to work together and share their loot.

Game balance
- Tanks too desirable right now
- Sorcs crit very hard
- Rogues too nerfed in PvP

New PvP maps

Better inventory management
- Stacking (w/ mass sell)
- Sell All for specific rarities

Party System bonus – for all classes in PvE parties

Leaderboards
- Seasonal
- Bot protection

Progress meter for APs

Mailbox for offline communication

Guilds :
- Wall/ MOTD
- Guild V Guild
- Guild-wide prizes for competitions

New skills

Does this sum up what we have been talking about? Again, no promises on any of this, but it is a great conversation thus far!

Thanks,

- g

Maybe you should take time to read other posts instead of just yours :)

[Manuel Emilio]

Ok its a misleading example then. But gl with the zero-death plan of yours.
gl? (I don't know what that means), when I mentioned the 3k Deaths I don't was talking about me, I was talking about all the rogues, this is my first ACC, I was a Noob, look the number of Deaths of a Noob war (my firts time playing) and compare it with a firts time playing rogue before the armor nerf, u will see a big difference. (I love Nexus, is a OP pet and was with me from lvl 15 to 46) http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/6646ac8bfc5cc0e0f33da654ac69320d.jpg

[Kingslaughter]

Gl= good luck

[Lawpvp]

Oh basically they do.....



Maybe you should take time to read other posts instead of just yours :)

Maybe you should take the time becoming competent, i read that post the day it was made and it in no way directly addresses the rogue armor nerf, learn to read.

[Aerodude]

Ever since the nerf I've seen more and more rogues getting useless and dying 2x as much if not 3x more tanks are op even before that sword came because they actually use skills but now I see them rely too much on sword rather than skill

[konafez]

Here's my opinion, and its just that.,a opinion

First , yes need to do something with rogues armor..

Next, what is it that people feel like that have to put other classes down, I'm a die hard tank..but I support my brother and sister rogues..the whole "ile boost my self up by putting you down" mind set needs to go

Lastly , I don't care what you do to PvP, but leave pve alone...nerf PvP, buff it, I don't care..but leave pve alone, I spend most of my time running by myself farming. A damage nerf would suck

Tanks already have half the DMG/DPS of other classes ..and you think it should be cut in half....u been sniffin glue? Is your idea to just make every class useless ..

Yes I support fixing the rogue armor problem..but leave other classes out of it..this is about the rogue armor issue, let's stay on topic

[uehi]

Here's my opinion, and its just that.,a opinion

First , yes need to do something with rogues armor..

Next, what is it that people feel like that have to put other classes down, I'm a die hard tank..but I support my brother and sister rogues..the whole "ile boost my self up by putting you down" mind set needs to go

Lastly , I don't care what you do to PvP, but leave pve alone...nerf PvP, buff it, I don't care..but leave pve alone, I spend most of my time running by myself farming. A damage nerf would suck

Tanks already have half the DMG/DPS of other classes ..and you think it should be cut in half....u been sniffin glue? Is your idea to just make every class useless ..

Yes I support fixing the rogue armor problem..but leave other classes out of it..this is about the rogue armor issue, let's stay on topic

no one want weak wariors, no one want weak class we wwnt fair play game. But alrdy like you know Rogue is weak paper and foood i stay with my rogue on 46 and play warior but sory im not hapy to see paper any class.

[Lawpvp]

Here's my opinion, and its just that.,a opinion

First , yes need to do something with rogues armor..

Next, what is it that people feel like that have to put other classes down, I'm a die hard tank..but I support my brother and sister rogues..the whole "ile boost my self up by putting you down" mind set needs to go

Lastly , I don't care what you do to PvP, but leave pve alone...nerf PvP, buff it, I don't care..but leave pve alone, I spend most of my time running by myself farming. A damage nerf would suck

Tanks already have half the DMG/DPS of other classes ..and you think it should be cut in half....u been sniffin glue? Is your idea to just make every class useless ..

Yes I support fixing the rogue armor problem..but leave other classes out of it..this is about the rogue armor issue, let's stay on topic

Thank you, your thought that pve should not be hurt because of pvp is something sts needs to learn, because this rogue armor nerf was just the opposite. Blanket changes across all levels and aspects of the game do not work because different balance is required for pve and pvp, different balance is required for different levels aswell. While i do think the arc sword could be slightly nerfed(perhaps it spawns 2 less pools and each pool lasts 2 seconds less, which is not unreasonable), i think venge should be scaled to be more effective at endgame and less absurd at twink levels in addition to creating maps that require tanks and devising a better taunt system so that tanks do not rely as much on the proc, but are actually better in pve and pvp because of tank mechanics themselves

[Zeus]

Rogues should be 600-700 armor below equally geared tanks.

That was where it was before the armor nerf, so it will mean giving us back all of our armor. I had 2148 armor including passive armor while tanks has 2700-2800.

[intrepd]

That was where it was before the armor nerf, so it will mean giving us back all of our armor. I had 2148 armor including passive armor while tanks has 2700-2800.


Add to that if they are using shield they will have 3k + and still they want more armor? They have double of our armor now if they use shield, i know warriors who managed to tank with no armor in clashes and yet you guys are complaining about us tanky?

[Intous]

Well, the rogue armor nerf was NOT a good idea, but returning their armor would be a BAD idea, so how about, you know buff rogue's armor a lil bit, not a 10-20 buff and not 300-400.

[Zeus]

Well, the rogue armor nerf was NOT a good idea, but returning their armor would be a BAD idea, so how about, you know buff rogue's armor a lil bit, not a 10-20 buff and not 300-400.

Why would it be a bad idea? From my experience, the best mages would have a chance at beating me 50% of the time, if not more. I was at a slight disadvantage with the tanks but it was workable. It needs to be a full return, anything short won't help much at all. It's honestly so much squishier than playing a mage...

[intrepd]

Well, the rogue armor nerf was NOT a good idea, but returning their armor would be a BAD idea, so how about, you know buff rogue's armor a lil bit, not a 10-20 buff and not 300-400.


We were already the worst class even to proof it there was barely a rogue in clashes nowaday maybe 1 or 0 and it's never a good point to stack rogues but the best is stack tank. Rogues dies way easy even with their armor back so no point in buffing 100-50 armor or close to that they need the armor back

[Binlaggin]

Add to that if they are using shield they will have 3k + and still they want more armor? They have double of our armor now if they use shield, i know warriors who managed to tank with no armor in clashes and yet you guys are complaining about us tanky?

Mage doesn't have aim shot

[intrepd]

Mage doesn't have aim shot
You know that mages hit as hard as rogues now? Plus they have a shield that rogues doesn't have. And that quote was not talking about mages

[Zeus]

Mage doesn't have aim shot

Mages hit harder than rogues now with their lightning + gun. So yes, they don't have an aimed shot, they have something better. On top of that, they get a shield to go with it. Again though, I'm not asking for a mage nerf. I don't believe in class nerf. I feel like it just ruins a player's playing experience. I believe in returning rogue's armor as it was nerfed when rogues were already struggling.

[Intous]

Mage doesn't have aim shot
Electric crit does like 75% of AS's.

[uehi]

Electric crit does like 75% of AS's.
who cares about cfit like 40-60 if have shild stun. nekro shild lot of hp and armor and heal"? any mage special if can combo oponent like mage.

[uehi]

Electric crit does like 75% of AS's.
And rly hard to get higher crit like 60 with gear 46 imposible for more time like 1 sek per 10second.

[Americabud]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

[intrepd]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

[uehi]

I have an idea try out some Diamond jewels! around 80+ armour per full diamond equipment. im a mage and almost all my gear is full of diamond jewels and ive added 300 armour in just 4 pieces of gear. And rouges hit higher than mages so i understand why sts changed whos squishier mage or rouge. apparently mages are a support class and supposed to heal team and stuff, while rouges just does crazy damage, which does it make more sense to die first... the mage that cant heal the team if they die first do to 1 hit by rouge, or the rouge thats gonna do more damage in 3-4 seconds than any other class can do. "kill fast die fast" i think the rouge should die before the mage, shoot the rouge shoud die before everybody, you cant be #1 damage dealer + tank no class has it all

what a kinda joke id that cant talk with it.

[xxalivexx]

Why not instead of demanding your "armor" back wich it was never meant in the first place why not use armor gems pet and use pots?
rouges indeed were more tankier then warriors and remember when everyone was saying tanks suck dont party them their better off naked bla bla bla and now reality hits you and what you do come here and make a thread almost every day right? if they give your "armor" back there's gonna be consequences i wouldn't be making any more threads if i was you,and remember the cake exploiters that made over 100m gold of it someone was even making threads on how to do it can you get any more selfish then that?


Actually your wrong, i can clearly see you play as a tank cause you disagree with the statement, im on the edge of quitting the game period, the armor nerf was the biggest mistake sts made for a rog, 46 isnt even playable for rogs without being smashed in seconds, op rog vs op tank is a dominate match, the tank would win hands down, dragon sword is too much, we have no way to regen our mana fast enough to keep us alive, we have armor loss, we have damage loss entering pvp, whats next, im waiting to find out so i can just delete this game, until then I'll be waiting patiently.

And lets see some of you tank players spend hundreds of thousands for some diamond jewels that give like 28 armor max or whatever, not much help.

[Americabud]

what a kinda joke id that cant talk with it.

i couldnt understand your sentence food

[Americabud]

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

do i know that mages were tankier before the nerf... nope i didnt know that im pretty sure sts didnt decide to armor nerf rouges because they were squishy lmao i think they nerfed rouges armor because mage had 1600 armour rouges had 2200 armor + rouge is #1 dmg dealer... nice try though lol rouges more squishier than mages yeah right

[intrepd]

do i know that mages were tankier before the nerf... nope i didnt know that im pretty sure sts didnt decide to armor nerf rouges because they were squishy lmao i think they nerfed rouges armor because mage had 1600 armour rouges had 2200 armor + rouge is #1 dmg dealer... nice try though lol rouges more squishier than mages yeah right


Idk if you're agreeing or its sarcasm but its true that mages are tankier than rogues also mind to answer the jewels question i asked you above?

[Tapash Bose]

i retired my rogue in rengol after i got the aegis, and i decided to focus on tank. i ran with a lot of people, so you can have plenty of references besides myself. But this is not the subject of the thread. It s class balance.

u did not read the whole statement..show me a rogue who can stay alive in elite glintstone wo nekro or furious pot spamming :)....razor shields do hv a cooldown however small it may be :)...

[Americabud]

Idk if you're agreeing or its sarcasm but its true that mages are tankier than rogues also mind to answer the jewels question i asked you above?

you said mages were tankier than rouges before the armor nerf. if mages were tankier than rouges then why would sts nerf rouge armor. you think people who created and developed the game sat in a room of computers and game info and decided i think we should armor nerf the rouges since they are weakest tank.. i dont think so, they probaly sat in the studio and said why dont we reduce rouge armor since they are the #1 damage dealers in the game and they tank like warriors

you also said "look at tanks theyre a tanky rouge..." sts probaly noticed rouges shouldnt have ever been competing with tanks or getting compared to tanks. that goes to show how op rouges have been for the entire game. like i said and even a fellow rouge said "kill fast die fast"

for your "jewel question" you said if you use diamond jewels in your gear you will lose damage. thats called a tradeoff. if i said kill fast die fast, then logically kill slow die slow. youve had it both ways for a long time so your used to it, but trust me sts is balancing the game you should have never had it both ways, in the past rouge hp:5000 crit:50 dmg:900 armor:2200 meaning sts has balanced the game between classes more than it used to be in the past when rouges had more armor than alot of warriors and more damage and crit than alot of mages. just try out those noble+ diamond jewels if you want to dont knock it till you try it

[yubaraj]

You know that mages were tankier even before the nerf? Thats what i noticed that they got 2 shields to sync during clashes but rogues gets 7-6 seconds of no shield to die in also mage heal is way more useful as if you're in trouble you can heal instantly but rogues has to pick up their packs, if you aren't near a wall then you cant pick them and sometimes it drops far even if you threw toward the wall.

Look at tanks now they're a tanky rogue with juggernaut and OP damage. What's the point of wasting rogue set on diamond? Increase armor and lose hp and mana dex? Rogue will still die easy due to the loss of hp and won't hit hard due to the loss of damage? Know how many damage rogues will lose if they gem their gear with diamond? And even though rogues won't get back the same amount of armor they lost with nerf using diamond gems.

Have you ever played mage in pvp?

Mages were tankier than rogue before armor nerf. Really lol.

Mage has to sacrifice one skill slot to utilise arcane shield. Nekro aa doesn't stack. That means if someone decide to use nekro aa's in the middle then mage cannot sync nekro shield. BTW nekro shield is way weaker than arcane shield. Mage get one comboed by rogue even in nekro shield. And get one shotted if there is no shield. Heal without charged is not that useful. So even mage heal instantly that's useless.

Also don't forget mage is AOE class. So mages should perform better in clash than rogues. If rogue is equal to mage in clash then there is no point playing mage class.

About the thread topic, I was agreeing on giving some armor back to rogue as current situation; Rogue dies like a fly in clash if they just want to spam their attack skill. I don't want them to disappear from pvp rooms.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Hey everyone,

We always appreciate the discussions going on, just don't forget to keep things civil while you debate ;).

Since it hasn't been brought up yet, the design team did some research and based on the way armor values scale as your level increases, at current end-game levels Nature Jewels are more effective for survival than Diamond Jewels due to the amount of hp they give. This gets even better at higher tiers of the jewels (superb, noble, exquisite) so you'll find more survivability if you socket some Nature Jewels instead of Diamond.

[intrepd]

Have you ever played mage in pvp?

Mages were tankier than rogue before armor nerf. Really lol.

Mage has to sacrifice one skill slot to utilise arcane shield. Nekro aa doesn't stack. That means if someone decide to use nekro aa's in the middle then mage cannot sync nekro shield. BTW nekro shield is way weaker than arcane shield. Mage get one comboed by rogue even in nekro shield. And get one shotted if there is no shield. Heal without charged is not that useful. So even mage heal instantly that's useless.

Also don't forget mage is AOE class. So mages should perform better in clash than rogues. If rogue is equal to mage in clash then there is no point playing mage class.

About the thread topic, I was agreeing on giving some armor back to rogue as current situation; Rogue dies like a fly in clash if they just want to spam their attack skill. I don't want them to disappear from pvp rooms.
This goes for general not only endgame, but also for twinks, u ever tried twink mage? I got a mage that can farm twinks in my level after the nerf but before it was almost 50/50

[intrepd]

you said mages were tankier than rouges before the armor nerf. if mages were tankier than rouges then why would sts nerf rouge armor. you think people who created and developed the game sat in a room of computers and game info and decided i think we should armor nerf the rouges since they are weakest tank.. i dont think so, they probaly sat in the studio and said why dont we reduce rouge armor since they are the #1 damage dealers in the game and they tank like warriors

you also said "look at tanks theyre a tanky rouge..." sts probaly noticed rouges shouldnt have ever been competing with tanks or getting compared to tanks. that goes to show how op rouges have been for the entire game. like i said and even a fellow rouge said "kill fast die fast"

for your "jewel question" you said if you use diamond jewels in your gear you will lose damage. thats called a tradeoff. if i said kill fast die fast, then logically kill slow die slow. youve had it both ways for a long time so your used to it, but trust me sts is balancing the game you should have never had it both ways, in the past rouge hp:5000 crit:50 dmg:900 armor:2200 meaning sts has balanced the game between classes more than it used to be in the past when rouges had more armor than alot of warriors and more damage and crit than alot of mages. just try out those noble+ diamond jewels if you want to dont knock it till you try it

So why did they nerf armor when sword and mythic maul came out? They did not when aegis was around? Exactly because as u said its called tradeoff tanks lose their armor for damage then spam forums for rogues has almost close to our armor.
A sword well geared tank can hit 2600 armor or close, a maxed rogue is around 2100 and a fully maxed tank with shield is 3200 lets see 1100 different in armor?

[Right]

Ever since the nerf I've seen more and more rogues getting useless and dying 2x as much if not 3x more tanks are op even before that sword came because they actually use skills but now I see them rely too much on sword rather than skill

They are not useless you need to shoot your arrows from far away and since you have so much dodge, you dont get hit 100% of the time
if you use daggers then your life is at risk because your getting right in the action faces either use bow or daggers.

i dont understand your logic there "tanks are op even before the sword came because they actually use "skills" but now i see them rely too much on sword rather then "skill" ??? maybe those rouges you saw dying 3x more were afk Right? those rouges before the nerf sure were more tankier then warriors because you never saw them die there's your prove

[Deathlyreaper]

I am a Mage and +1 to this thread

Give rouges SOME of their armours back. Not all but some and see how that turns out.

Also pls nerf the aimed shot. Just the aimed shot. On both pvp and pve. I was doing a test with my guildie. I put 4/5 on shield except the knockback and 10/10 mastery on shield( which equals 70% dmg reduction. Or at least I hope it's 70% unless the mastery is bugged). My rogue guildie had 800dmg (with the 20% reduction) (so in total that would 90% dmg reduction) and he broke my shield in 6 hits. (4 if u don't count the 2 hits from the invulnerability). Also if I don't heal, he will kill me before the shield is broken and I have (5.5k hp). Many times rougues can crit like 3k on aimed shot. 3K WITH 90% dmg reduction. 3K is a lot for a Mage. I literally die in like 5 secs against rougues because of their aimed shot. I even lose to rougues even though I have more dmg than them in town.

So give some of their armour back and see if it balances and also reduce their aimed shot dmg

P.S my str is like 120+ and int is like 600+

[Right]

The problem is not only with PvP, the pve is unbalanced, rogue 18 with normal gear (500 armor, 115 dmg) can't solo the second Dead City Boss, War lvl 13 with the golden skull armor (don't remember the name) can do it, in lvl 40+ is balanced but in low lvls the rogues are dying so fast. (Imagine the KDR 10000 Deaths/3000 Kills). I want a perfect KDR rogue and had to restart the char 3 times in a week.

Twinks are just for fun thats why is an alt and that's why they exist otherwise they wouldn't even be here so have fun while you can
probably 3% of people take twinking seriously i personally think is a waste of time

[Manuel Emilio]

Twinks are just for fun thats why is an alt and that's why they exist otherwise they wouldn't even be here so have fun while you can
probably 3% of people take twinking seriously i personally think is a waste of time
I this coment I'm not talking about PvP or twink dude, I'm talking about how a rogue in lvl 18 with dmg 100-125 and 500 armor can't solo with boss of second Dead city map and a War lvl 13 With 74-80 dmg and 500 armor can do it (the health help a lot the war, but the rogue don't have enough health, so give them some armor back).

[yubaraj]

This goes for general not only endgame, but also for twinks, u ever tried twink mage? I got a mage that can farm twinks in my level after the nerf but before it was almost 50/50

I am mainly twink pvp player. I did pvp on all classes in twink brackets however I preferred playing mage. I play both endgame and twink pvp. I know how squishy mages are in twink brackets.

Thats why I have suggested in this thread earlier to remove rogue armor nerf but buff mage's armor. That would have helped mages to be more competitive with both classes as well as in low level pvp and engage too. I guess that would have create less crying. I am not sure though because rogue always wants to be op. And warrior would have hard time fighting mages too.

It's hard to make everyone happy.

[Serancha]

Hey everyone,

We always appreciate the discussions going on, just don't forget to keep things civil while you debate ;).

Since it hasn't been brought up yet, the design team did some research and based on the way armor values scale as your level increases, at current end-game levels Nature Jewels are more effective for survival than Diamond Jewels due to the amount of hp they give. This gets even better at higher tiers of the jewels (superb, noble, exquisite) so you'll find more survivability if you socket some Nature Jewels instead of Diamond.


Interesting hints at the armour mechanics there. HP > armour (once reasonable armour levels are met) follows with what some have tested in past seasons. Thanks Vroom!

I think one of the big things is that rogues don't want to give up any damage (by using non-damage-increasing jewels) in order to increase survivability, since they have never needed to in the past.

The reduction in armour may just force people to look at other options, causing variety in jewel usage, helping the economy and adding interest in the game overall. With jewels removable, it makes testing multiple configurations possible like it never was before.

Personally, I applaud STS for standing their ground for the time being, and look forward to the potentials this change brings. It's the most interesting change in years and now I finally look forward to levelling so I can test this stuff out.

[Right]

Im fine with rogues armor. just fix stun locks to death combo with arc sword, thats more imba. imo.

Nice to see a rouge that agrees with the balance changes and is fine with it but the arc sword is fine as it is you too can stun and combo so whats the problem?

[Americabud]

vroom pointing out that some of the rouges should try out some noble nature jewels. i think you should, if you really want to not be so squishy be prepared for a trade off (removing finesse jewels for nature/diamond jewels). you just cant have both, its not fair. rouges have been the only class in the game for a long time with the most damage output (crit x damage = dmg) if they have armor to compete with warriors armor or even the second most armor without having to sacrifice damage that wouldnt be fair.

ill put this here one more time for the #1 damage dealers in AL "kill fast die fast" "kill slow die slow" think it over its not that bad

[intrepd]

I am mainly twink pvp player. I did pvp on all classes in twink brackets however I preferred playing mage. I play both endgame and twink pvp. I know how squishy mages are in twink brackets.

Thats why I have suggested in this thread earlier to remove rogue armor nerf but buff mage's armor. That would have helped mages to be more competitive with both classes as well as in low level pvp and engage too. I guess that would have create less crying. I am not sure though because rogue always wants to be op. And warrior would have hard time fighting mages too.

It's hard to make everyone happy.

I have a mage in twink i can show you how easy it is to kill rogues there.

[intrepd]

vroom pointing out that some of the rouges should try out some noble nature jewels. i think you should, if you really want to not be so squishy be prepared for a trade off (removing finesse jewels for nature/diamond jewels). you just cant have both, its not fair. rouges have been the only class in the game for a long time with the most damage output (crit x damage = dmg) if they have armor to compete with warriors armor or even the second most armor without having to sacrifice damage that wouldnt be fair.

ill put this here one more time for the #1 damage dealers in AL "kill fast die fast" "kill slow die slow" think it over its not that bad
Kill fast die fast
Kill slow die slow, say that to the tanks now who die slow and kill fast, "they kill dps fast" if youre going to say they are slow and take a lot then i disagree because they usually take 17-18 sec almost near juggernaut to kill a dps which is fast for me since im a twink player too

[Lawpvp]

Twinks are just for fun thats why is an alt and that's why they exist otherwise they wouldn't even be here so have fun while you can
probably 3% of people take twinking seriously i personally think is a waste of time

Once again, get the ____ off this thread if thats your attitude. Endgame doesnt deserve balance anymore than twinks do, all players are equal. And most people have twinks as their main, not as an alt, so dont talk about things u clearly are clueless about


vroom pointing out that some of the rouges should try out some noble nature jewels. i think you should, if you really want to not be so squishy be prepared for a trade off (removing finesse jewels for nature/diamond jewels). you just cant have both, its not fair. rouges have been the only class in the game for a long time with the most damage output (crit x damage = dmg) if they have armor to compete with warriors armor or even the second most armor without having to sacrifice damage that wouldnt be fair.

ill put this here one more time for the #1 damage dealers in AL "kill fast die fast" "kill slow die slow" think it over its not that bad

This thread was made from a twink perspective, twink rogues are not the #1 damage dealers, numbers wise they are, percentage wise not even close. Lvl 17 warriors 2 comboed my 17 rogue with 8 eyes even before the nerf, A LVL 13 WARRIOR 1 COMBOED A LVL 13 ROGUE, and u act like rogues do too much dmg? Pff, no

And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started.

Nevertheless i am thankful sts has made it clear this weekend will be an attempt to holistically take a look at pvp balance and how it can be altered. They have done what I wanted to get out of this thread, hopefully they will make the right decisions after some observations have been made this weekend. Things are looking bright for arlors future, hopefully a cloud wont cover it up once again

[intrepd]

They are not useless you need to shoot your arrows from far away and since you have so much dodge, you dont get hit 100% of the time
if you use daggers then your life is at risk because your getting right in the action faces either use bow or daggers.

i dont understand your logic there "tanks are op even before the sword came because they actually use "skills" but now i see them rely too much on sword rather then "skill" ??? maybe those rouges you saw dying 3x more were afk Right? those rouges before the nerf sure were more tankier then warriors because you never saw them die there's your prove

Lol what? Dodge only dodges auto attacks and pet attacks, they do not even dodge it all the time and they do not dodge skills eother

[Kingslaughter]

I still saw many lb rouge still good at pvp....especially if u twink at 46...they never complain arcane sword....they knew how to play...not cross....just need a good team there....and after all match...rogue always have many kill....i think vroom rite....if u end level go with nature jewel and soon they will release another weapon so dont be afraid...theres no arcane sword there

[intrepd]

I still saw many lb rouge still good at pvp....especially if u twink at 46...they never complain arcane sword....they knew how to play...not cross....just need a good team there....and after all match...rogue always have many kill....i think vroom rite....if u end level go with nature jewel and soon they will release another weapon so dont be afraid...theres no arcane sword there

The weapon thats going to replace arcane sword has to be better.

[Americabud]

Once again, get the ____ off this thread if thats your attitude. Endgame doesnt deserve balance anymore than twinks do, all players are equal. And most people have twinks as their main, not as an alt, so dont talk about things u clearly are clueless about



This thread was made from a twink perspective, twink rogues are not the #1 damage dealers, numbers wise they are, percentage wise not even close. Lvl 17 warriors 2 comboed my 17 rogue with 8 eyes even before the nerf, A LVL 13 WARRIOR 1 COMBOED A LVL 13 ROGUE, and u act like rogues do too much dmg? Pff, no

And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started.

Nevertheless i am thankful sts has made it clear this weekend will be an attempt to holistically take a look at pvp balance and how it can be altered. They have done what I wanted to get out of this thread, hopefully they will make the right decisions after some observations have been made this weekend. Things are looking bright for arlors future, hopefully a cloud wont cover it up once again

you just cursed that guy out before you replied to my post, just noting that.
you said
"And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started."
those people who you call noobs who know nothing are actually regular people irl who are playing a game and can tell that in that game one class is prefer'd so even though you said "and this is how the problem started" i think the truth is this is how the problem started to get fix.

[intrepd]

you just cursed that guy out before you replied to my post, just noting that.
you said
"And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started."
those people who you call noobs who know nothing are actually regular people irl who are playing a game and can tell that in that game one class is prefer'd so even though you said "and this is how the problem started" i think the truth is this is how the problem started to get fix.

Class is preferred? Dude there is no need for rogues anymore in clashes, most clashes are either full tanks or tanks and mages, the maximum number u can get in a team is 1 or 0 if u dont believe then ask a top rogue about it

[Americabud]

Class is preferred? Dude there is no need for rogues anymore in clashes, most clashes are either full tanks or tanks and mages, the maximum number u can get in a team is 1 or 0 if u dont believe then ask a top rogue about it

its kind of like talking in circles. i never said rouge is prefer'd class now, i was responding to someone and even quoted what i was respoding to let me put it here for you
"And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started."
i was responding to that so yeah even leon admits players will once again feel rouges are op this weekend, imagine if they had even more armor too thats unfair. but to sum it up i never said rouges are the preferd class atm i think its more balanced atm

[intrepd]

its kind of like talking in circles. i never said rouge is prefer'd class now, i was responding to someone and even quoted what i was respoding to let me put it here for you
"And ofc now that rogue dmg will be back for this weekend only, im sure all the noobs who know nothing will come to forums and say rogues are op, when in reality they were not, and are not, and this is how this problem started."
i was responding to that so yeah even leon admits players will once again feel rouges are op this weekend, imagine if they had even more armor too thats unfair. but to sum it up i never said rouges are the preferd class atm i think its more balanced atm
You mean having 0 or 1 rogue in a team during clash is balanced then i disagree with you, most clashes now are 0 rogues and if you are lucky you can participate in the clash but only one rogue. I agree the rogue damage needs nerf ( Only the nerf sts did before) but armor rogue needs it to survive if they cant survive sword right now with their eye gems so imagine level 56 with 0 eyes? And a weapon that's even better than sword since its going to replace it

[oekeone]

Watch his YouTube channel, he has some duels there. It'll make sense after that.

ye I've seen his video he can easily take a tank half HP with a single charged lightning and without a single buff from pets

[Avaree]

Zeus, you have no idea what I have or haven't done (and this is game world, not "real" world). Besides which, it's straight logic.

The devs have a lot of testing and further changes coming up, and this change is obviously the first part of a bigger plan. As someone pointed out, we need to be looking at the entire game and the future of it, rather than immediate gratification, especially for only one aspect of the whole. Who knows, maybe after the FFA weekend they will decide that rogues need more armour, but I think freaking out before the new season's gear is even released is premature.

If something shows itself to be a real problem once all the changes are in place and people have a chance to try adapting, then they will fix it - they always do. I'm just saying give STS a chance to make the changes they are planning, and try to work with them. They have stated they are dedicated to revitalizing the game, and there are obviously balance changes being considered for all classes. Just because rogues are the underdog at the moment doesn't mean they will remain that way once the other changes are applied. It takes time to make major changes to the game, and sometimes that process involves periods of discomfort.

I hope many players read this Sera.
Well said!
* Out of thanks *

[Tentenzz]

I hope they returned our armor back because I feel really useless as a rogue nowadays.. I even considering to play as a tank. Whenever I enter pvp, most of the time, there are 3-4 tanks on the other side. Of course I have to leave unless I volunteer to become their food. I barely can go near them. Only death waiting for me. When someone call for pvp, its either tank jj or mage jj.. rogue felt neglected.

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[intrepd]

I hope they returned our armor back because I feel really useless as a rogue nowadays.. I even considering to play as a tank. Whenever I enter pvp, most of the time, there are 3-4 tanks on the other side. Of course I have to leave unless I volunteer to become their food. I barely can go near them. Only death waiting for me. When someone call for pvp, its either tank jj or mage jj.. rogue felt neglected.

Sent from my SM-G530H using Tapatalk

Rogues are the best in Single target damage so they can solo but now they can't solo no class, everyone is like 'Get a team and hide near tanks' but rogues are meant to do single target more than clashes so they should be the best in 1vs1 but mages and tanks are better in clashes, now rogues are weak in both 1vs1 and clash.

Pvp is filled with tanks and sword now last time i checked it was 4 tanks each team a clash and 1 mage lol "i swapped with a mage"

[Americabud]

ArcaneLegends Americabud v Zeus -youtube

how many want me to farm this guy? stay tuned

[Tentenzz]

Rogues are the best in Single target damage so they can solo but now they can't solo no class, everyone is like 'Get a team and hide near tanks' but rogues are meant to do single target more than clashes so they should be the best in 1vs1 but mages and tanks are better in clashes, now rogues are weak in both 1vs1 and clash.

Pvp is filled with tanks and sword now last time i checked it was 4 tanks each team a clash and 1 mage lol "i swapped with a mage"
True. No one need rogue anymore in pvp.

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[glendame]

Bottom line is fix Arcane Sword's procs. I think rogues can still compete in pvp with a proper team. Depends on your set up, skill set and ping. xD

[Seoratrek]

Let's keep the chat productive and civil. Thanks!

[SCSY]

Rouge should restore their armour. The survivability of mage is much higher now.

Int is secondary stat of rogue while str is secondary stat of mage. In other words, mage has a higher hp than rogue in general.

mage has arcane shield that can reduce 45% damage. Rogue only has a chance to dodge with razor shield. Only 10% damage reduction is granted when maxing mastery of razor shield.

Gale force can increase 50% armour of a mage while shadow veil can only increse 20% of armour.

Therefore, rogue is squishy in pve now

[xRyuzanki]

Just please return the armor's rogue in pve.
Because of those people who only COMPLAIN AND COMPLAIN about
How OP are rogues , now Rogue are so squishy in pve.
They didn't think about the NOT SO GEARED ROGUES . they keep saying
That rogues 1hit everything .-. , well it is only happening when you have a good set of
Gems/jewels on your items and if your items are OP .But the stg and the Nerfers Didn't think what will happened on those ppl who just have a fine gears and don't have exclusive set of items. RIP rogues .

[konafez]

We you know what they say...

150934

[Justg]

We are not going to reverse the armor nerf. We are comfortable with how it balances things out. Closing this one up.