Do engineeers need a buff?

[WhoIsThis]

Does anyone else feel that engineers are the weakest class right now in the game? They don't have anything near the damage output of operatives and nor the durability of commandos.

It seems that they are pure support right now. All of the AOE spells are damage over time. Unfortunately, targets are often dead before the engineer's AOE can get any kills.

I think that engineers need at least one or two fairly powerful AOE spells to compensate.


One thing I found very interesting is that arguably the "best" class and probably the most commonly played is also the most similar to its PL counterpart - bird vs operative. A lot of the spells are similar: repulse, thorn root, break armor, blinding shot all have SL counterparts that are similar. One could argue that the level 20 op skill is kind of like blast shot. On the other hand, commando is fine the way it is. As this game is ranged, equipping commandoes with melee slashes wouldn't work.



Edit:

I have decided to necro this thread because I want to draw attention to the difficulties that engineers are experiencing these days in SL PvP.

Notice when this thread was made and how long these issues have persisted. In August, I insisted that engineers in their state would not stand a chance in SL PvP. Others disagreed and well ... time told the story.

[Conradin]

See, what you have to get over is that engineers are not a Pl mage. They are a support class. However if used right- they can kill mobs quite well. They will never be a nuking machine though. I look forward to playing engineer.

[Flowman]

Engineers have Force Shield...buffs armor and increases mana recovery.
Engineers can Heal with 3 different attacks.
Engineers have an instant-hit AOE, transference, that also heals and I believe heals everyone around as well.
Engineers can wield the non-class specific weapons, and I see a LOT of commandos wielding the plat rifles; engineers can wield these.
Engineers have the middle armor class of the 3 and hardly use any stim packs.

If anything the operative class needs tweaking. It's weak beyond comparison to the other 2

[bronislav84]

While you make a good point for glass cannon being too glassy Flow, so does Who. Engineers are survivable, yes, but lack good damage output. Yes the Op is a bit too squishy wearing cloth, but it's damage is much higher than Birds. STS obviously wanted one unique class in the game, but Engineer needs a bit more damage ability. Mobs do in fact die too quickly for the majority of the DOTs to run their full duration. This is also going to be detrimental in PVP, as Op should in theory have no trouble just killing an Eng outright before the DOTs tick down.

I believe one instant cast electric discharge AOE that does it's damage all at once with a three to four second cooldown and a Turret summon would balance the class out nicely while being completely in line with the technology theme. One instant damage AOE is not too far off the DOT theme, really. Also Transference needs to be tweaked to either be a frontal cone or a point blank radius. Right now although it is an AOE, the fact that it cuts out if the primary target dies also makes it prone to not running the full time. I detailed this in noneo's Engineer Survival Guide.

The electric AOE would cover the lack of being able to help effectively clear mobs or take care of themselves. I'm at a huge disadvantage if I get too much stuff attacking me. I am sure it's the number one cause of deaths for Engineers.

The Turret would cover the lack of worthwhile DPS by supplementing the Engineer's damage.

[WhoIsThis]

That's also a huge problem - engineers are going not going to do well in PvP vs ops.

[ThisGuy0502]

I agree, but transference is engineers top notch skill and one of the strongest skills in the beta right now... i say that engineers are equal to both op and commando

[WhoIsThis]

Engineers have Force Shield...buffs armor and increases mana recovery.
Engineers can Heal with 3 different attacks.
Engineers have an instant-hit AOE, transference, that also heals and I believe heals everyone around as well.
Engineers can wield the non-class specific weapons, and I see a LOT of commandos wielding the plat rifles; engineers can wield these.
Engineers have the middle armor class of the 3 and hardly use any stim packs.

If anything the operative class needs tweaking. It's weak beyond comparison to the other 2

1. Force shield's 1 m/s extra isn't worth much, although the armor is more helpful. If you're spamming spells, you need pots. (Speaking of which, engineers should have the highest mana regen). However, force shield isn't too hard to overwhelm.

2. Leech isn't as useful against mobs. Targets are usually dead, except for bosses. Whither too.

3. That I agree with, although transference too can be cut off if the target dies too early. Pain also suffers from this weakness. There is a delay before the blast in pain. If the target survives though, the damage is decent. Usually though, even in delta 7, the mobs die too fast for the second blast.

4. Ops have dual pistol, so not really an advantage.

5. Dependent on playstyle. I find myself using fewer health pots than other 2 classes, but more mana pots.


I don't know why op needs a buff. They pump out a very high volume of damage, and while vulnerable, they have an ability to vastly buff their dodge if they wish to.



Edit:
As it stands, right now engineers have to lock onto a target, use skills like pain or transferrence and switch over to another target. It's a suboptimal strategy. If you don't switch over to another target, you're DOT spells won't be used to their full effect. If you do, there's a pretty good chance that a teammate is going to kill the target anyways before your DOT takes full effect.

[ThisGuy0502]

Plus... ppl hav not made a twink engineer so that being said there are still some of single targeted skills
Wither, leech
Plus with the armor buffs and still 2 skills that are unknown right now cause of the betas limits... it could be anything... it could be a skill that could easly wipe a op right off the pvp field :)

[Flowman]

I'm assuming with the release of purples/pinks we will see Engineer armor having some decent M/S buffs. I never said Leech was useful, I just said that 3 such skills exist. I don't have a point in Leech since the levels we play in aren't too tough. The wielding the different weapons point was combating the idea that Engineers aren't powerful. They can wield the same weapons as commandos, and as far as I've seen most commandos wield the Plat Rifles.

Also my force shield goes up to 3 m/s when I cast it. I don't find myself using too many mana potions either.

[WhoIsThis]

Plus... ppl hav not made a twink engineer so that being said there are still some of single targeted skills
Wither, leech
Plus with the armor buffs and still 2 skills that are unknown right now cause of the betas limits... i could be anything... it could be a skill that could easly wipe a op right off the pvp field :)

Leech and whither in PvE though suffer from what I described above - the target unless a boss, often dies before these skills can take their full effect.

PvP though - I don't know.
Pre-fight:
Engineer casts protection and shield.
Operative buffs dodge (blur).

Right before fight, engineer will cast empathy I imagine.

Then what - operative will likely cast amplify pain, while the engineer will cast transference. The next series of spells for engineer might be pain (which has a delay), leech, and perhaps wither? Op on the other hand is busy debuffing you. Neural shock, mind wreck, and most deadly of all, sympathetic anguish. They could also use a DOT spell on you with flamethrower early on. Remember that op is doing more damage right now.

Spell for spell, weapon shot for weapon, the op does have an advantage. Apart from flamethrower, and that weak rooting spell, psychic lash, all their spells are instant. You've got transference and pain that aren't. They also have the crit and dodge advantage, so they might dodge one of your spells. You do have an armor advantage, but amplify pain negates a lot of it.

Eventually the shield will collapse. Remember, you're being debuffed. So your capacity to steal the other targets life declines steadily as your damage drops.

Edit:
As it stands, I'd say the op has the upper hand.

[Physiologic]

Ops are too overpowered. If stun and knockdown works in PvP, this combo is pretty deadly:

1 Lurch -> Enemy is damaged and knocked down, leaving them unable to attack for a short period of time.
2 Amplify Pain (while enemy is knocked down) -> Severely reduces armor and increases crit chance for Op
3 Flames of Insanity -> DoT attack while enemy is stunned for 3 seconds
4 Mind Wrack/Neural shock/Sympathetic Anguish (while enemy is stunned) -> Enemy is damaged
5 Run away and cast Psychic Lash -> DoT attack while enemy is rooted, unable to move. Wait for cool-downs to finish very briefly
6 Wait for Lurch cool-down to finish, repeat process

I do think Engs may need some sort of damage boost especially for PvP. But then again PvP hasn't even been released so all of this is mere speculation.

[bronislav84]

I agree, but transference is engineers top notch skill and one of the strongest skills in the beta right now... i say that engineers are equal to both op and commandoYou're kidding right? Damage output is at least half of the other two classes, if not even less than that. The fact that almost all the damage skills take time to do anything (Pain at least instantly stuns) and most encounters besides bosses don't give you that time is bad. Why do you think so many Engineers don't use the gloves? Because their killing ability is horrible. I rock with a rifle or repeater. Currently using The Foreman because any gloves give me less damage but more DPS. DPS does not affect skills, and a rifle just ends up killing quicker anyway. I've been looking for one.

Now then, let's get my tweak ideas out there.

1. Transference becomes a radius of the same distance as it currently has and it's damage and healing remain the same. Any friendly player within range of any affected mob gets healed for the total damage all mobs are taking, just like now. The only difference is that Transference ceases cutting out due to it's primary target dieing. Make it not require a target, and it's awesome.

2. New skill: Electric Discharge. The Engineer draws power from the gadgets they carry and lets loose a discharge of electricity to hit all targets in a point blank AOE around the caster. Same as PL Lightning, including the armor debuff, but different animation. Should look like electricity comes from their body outward in a radius. Because this would the the only instant damage AOE, it should be probably usable sooner than PL Lightning but not I'm ok with same cooldown time. Each rank increases damage, and possibly the magnitude of the armor debuff. Int scaling and weapon damage scaling as usual. 3 second cooldown, 15 Energy cost.

3. New skill: Turret Fabrication. Summon a small (About half the player's height) floating turret pet that will follow and shoot the same targets as it's owner is currently auto attacking until killed or desummoned by touching the skill again. The turret has it's own health (Scaling appropriately to the level of the player and content, based on rank) and should be healable by the heal skills that affect players. Ranks increase the health of the turret, armor up to 60 (10 per rank, starting with 10 at rank 1), and damage of the turret's single target beam attack. At rank 5 it gains a shield that is equal to half it's health, which slowly recovers over time. At rank 6 the turret's shield becomes equal to it's health and the shied's regeneration speed is doubled. The shield cannot be healed by anything and must come back on it's own. Any damage first hits the shield before hitting the pet. Scale all aspects of the pet on Int as usual, and possibly weapon damage. 20 second cooldown, 30 Energy cost. The cost and cooldown will mean that losing your pet immediately means you can't get it back right away and must make it last.

If a shield is overpowered, then alternatively, the pet can gain a double rate of fire at rank 5 and a cone AOE rocket barrage at rank 6, with a 10 second internal cooldown on it's AOE. Though I honestly don't think the shield is overpowered, since it cannot be healed by any means other than regenerating on it's own and as a force field it should not have any damage mitigation. The pet's armor should only be counted when it's taking direct damage, but the pet should be affected by Protection and the armor/DPS buff from Res and it's damage output should be affected by any debuffs on the target.

What do you guys think?

Also Flow what rank do you start having 3 m/s without having first casted Res?

[ThisGuy0502]

Plus... ppl hav not made a twink engineer so that being said there are still some of single targeted skills
Wither, leech
Plus with the armor buffs and still 2 skills that are unknown right now cause of the betas limits... i could be anything... it could be a skill that could easly wipe a op right off the pvp field :)

Leech and whither in PvE though suffer from what I described above - the target unless a boss, often dies before these skills can take their full effect.

PvP though - I don't know.
Pre-fight:
Engineer casts protection and shield.
Operative buffs dodge (blur).

Right before fight, engineer will cast empathy I imagine.

Then what - operative will likely cast amplify pain, while the engineer will cast transference. The next series of spells for engineer might be pain (which has a delay), leech, and perhaps wither? Op on the other hand is busy debuffing you. Neural shock, mind wreck, and most deadly of all, sympathetic anguish. They could also use a DOT spell on you with flamethrower early on. Remember that op is doing more damage right now.

Spell for spell, weapon shot for weapon, the op does have an advantage. Apart from flamethrower, and that weak rooting spell, psychic lash, all their spells are instant. You've got transference and pain that aren't. They also have the crit and dodge advantage, so they might dodge one of your spells. You do have an armor advantage, but amplify pain negates a lot of it.

Eventually the shield will collapse. Remember, you're being debuffed. So your capacity to steal the other targets life declines steadily as your damage drops.

Edit:
As it stands, I'd say the op has the upper hand.

True but... with wither at a high level... lets say 5, and the ops low health and armor, wither will consitanly attack you bringging your health down with the engineers having to do nothing.. if i was in a fight i would probably use def buffs, then empathey, then use wither, then use pain for the 3 sec stun, transference, dont for get about the pain so when tranceference is done attacking a blasting blow of pain should finish you off

[WhoIsThis]

True but... with wither at a high level... lets say 5, and the ops low health and armor, wither will consitanly attack you bringging your health down with the engineers having to do nothing.. if i was in a fight i would probably use def buffs, then empathey, then use wither, then use pain for the 3 sec stun, transference, dont for get about the pain so when tranceference is done attacking a blasting blow of pain should finish you off

Your missing the point of what me and Physiologic wrote. Early on, you will be stunned and debuffed. Your spells won't be as powerful as they are in PvE. Your hit % will be lowered. Your armor will be reduced by amplify pain.

Considering how fast-paced PvP is, you don't have time to take advantage of the DOT.

[ThisGuy0502]

Your missing the point of what me and Physiologic wrote. Early on, you will be stunned and debuffed. Your spells won't be as powerful as they are in PvE. Your hit % will be lowered. Your armor will be reduced by amplify pain.

Considering how fast-paced PvP is, you don't have time to take advantage of the DOT.[/QUOTE]

Ok we'll just wait and see ;)

[bronislav84]

Thisguy, on top of what Who said, Op has at least twice the auto attack damage output. The Eng would hardly be doing nothing while the DOTs tick. They'd be struggling to surive getting blasted to pieces. The DOT damage takes tiiiiiiiiiiiiime to work. Time that the Op would spend debuffing and seriously hurting the Eng. How do you not realize this? Either you're just disagreeing to mess with us, or you're just that clueless. Which is it?

Right, so nobody cares about my ideas to improve the class? I worked hard on that. :(

[Flowman]

Also Flow what rank do you start having 3 m/s without having first casted Res?
I was maxed at 6 when I had it at 3. I respeced down to 3 to try a new set up, and it's at 2 now, so I don;t know it it;s 4, 5 or 6. I liked it at 6 alot more though,

[bronislav84]

Hmmm, interesting, thanks. I really wish somebody with enough plat would figure this out and post it. Besides what rank it becomes 3 m/s on it's own, I've also been wondering exactly how much the shield amount really improves per rank and if it gives more armor. Would be hard to test, as you'd need to go somewhere that can take it down before it ends and add up the damage it can take at each rank. Also I remember taking damage with it on, so might not be absorbing all damage, just some.

Nobody has any thoughts on my ideas. I see how it is. :(

[Flowman]

Ops are too overpowered. If stun and knockdown works in PvP, this combo is pretty deadly:

1 Lurch -> Enemy is damaged and knocked down, leaving them unable to attack for a short period of time.
2 Amplify Pain (while enemy is knocked down) -> Severely reduces armor and increases crit chance for Op
3 Flames of Insanity -> DoT attack while enemy is stunned for 3 seconds
4 Mind Wrack/Neural shock/Sympathetic Anguish (while enemy is stunned) -> Enemy is damaged
5 Run away and cast Psychic Lash -> DoT attack while enemy is rooted, unable to move. Wait for cool-downs to finish very briefly
6 Wait for Lurch cool-down to finish, repeat process

I do think Engs may need some sort of damage boost especially for PvP. But then again PvP hasn't even been released so all of this is mere speculation.

I'm sure STS will have the skills cause different effects in pvp as yes, the engineer will have no chance against the commando or the operative

[AOmonsta]

Random Question: Is there any word of melee weapons?

[Flowman]

Hmmm, interesting, thanks. I really wish somebody with enough plat would figure this out and post it. Besides what rank it becomes 3 m/s on it's own, I've also been wondering exactly how much the shield amount really improves per rank and if it gives more armor. Would be hard to test, as you'd need to go somewhere that can take it down before it ends and add up the damage it can take at each rank. Also I remember taking damage with it on, so might not be absorbing all damage, just some.

Nobody has any thoughts on my ideas. I see how it is. :(
Gives +20 armor per level. It doesn't block damage, just gives the armor buff and regens mana. I've also noticed that now that I'm lvl 3 shield instead of lvl 6, my shield goes down a lot faster when in combat, making me believe that a higher level = more damage taken before shield debuffs.

[ThisGuy0502]

Thisguy, on top of what Who said, Op has at least twice the auto attack damage output. The Eng would hardly be doing nothing while the DOTs tick. They'd be struggling to surive getting blasted to pieces. The DOT damage takes tiiiiiiiiiiiiime to work. Time that the Op would spend debuffing and seriously hurting the Eng. How do you not realize this? Either you're just disagreeing to mess with us, or you're just that clueless. Which is it?

Right, so nobody cares about my ideas to improve the class? I worked hard on that. :(

No i still believe that eng have a chance i guarantee you that ops worst enemys will be engineers ... and nice ideas btw, i like them alot

[Slush]

Al I have to say is: I can't wait for pvp >: D

[WhoIsThis]

No i still believe that eng have a chance i guarantee you that ops worst enemys will be engineers ... and nice ideas btw, i like them alot

Please explain why engineers you think engineers are going to be victorious in most matches against operatives.

[Raulur]

Too early to tell. I know my engie hardly ever uses stims, maybe a mana once or twice a map, depending on how many deaths there are. On the other hand, my op uses a massive amount of stims. I never had any spare money on my op, and my engineer has plenty to buy items with. I'd say it's good enough for now. You never know what those unknown skills will bring to the table.

[WhoIsThis]

Too early to tell. I know my engie hardly ever uses stims, maybe a mana once or twice a map, depending on how many deaths there are. On the other hand, my op uses a massive amount of stims. I never had any spare money on my op, and my engineer has plenty to buy items with. I'd say it's good enough for now. You never know what those unknown skills will bring to the table.

I find that my op has the most amount of cash? Odd. I've been farming with both. In the final level on Delta7, both will use a lot of stims. But otherwise, I find that my op kills things much more effectively, and seems to earn more cash.

Edit:
Moving back on topic, the engineer has neither the damage output of the operative nor the durability of the commando (and arguably less damage output due to the DOT).

I suspect that the reason why engineers have become the least popular class at the end-game is because of this. What to do?

[Cahaun]

It would be good if they all had the PL skills EXECPT they are named differently and have different flashy looking effects. The PL skills are the best balanced ones I have seen. Don't worry about commandos, SL should be getting melee weapons at launch or a major update. Good idea?

[Derajdefyre]

It's a team game. If you are finding yourself 1v1 with an operative, RUN!

I think people are wanting this game to be like diablo where you can run around and kill legions of enemies without trying. There is more strategy involved. I never solo anything. I go to the game list and join someone else. If no one else is in a game I switch characters and go solo some easy content. STS doesn't want the classes to be the same, they want them to be different but equal in group contribution. Don't give Engineers aoe skills! Operatives don't get them either! Pick a role you want to play and play it. If you don't like being an Engineer because you want to AoE, then delete your character and make a commando.

EDIT: To answer the question in the OP, no Engineers do not need a buff. We increase the groups armor and mana regen and we provide the entire group with something like 40H/s if we stay on top of it. No other class can do that, we are a VITAL part of the group.

[Raulur]

One question to those who think Engineer needs a buff: What weapon are you using? I know before I picked up a sniper rifle, I felt weak. After getting the sniper rifle, not at all. I can solo just about anything but a few bosses just fine.

[WhoIsThis]

It's a team game. If you are finding yourself 1v1 with an operative, RUN!

I hate to drive my own thread off topic when I've posted above, but as it stands, engineers stand no chance in PvP, which I recalling the devs originally saying would be more balanced than the PvP in PL. I note that ThisGuy has been conspicuously absent when asked to justify why ops would lose.

@Raulur

I use the Veteran's Beta and Beyond Sniper Rifle and the Stoneklaz. Compared to an op with minesweepers, damage output from skills is negligible. For equipment, I use full neutronics, with the exception of the helmet (iHelmet).

On paper, an engineer should have a lot of damage output. In practice, spells like transferrence, leech, whither, and pain do far less damage than one would expect. Having a more powerful rifle means that your target dies sooner. Pain for example needs a couple of seconds to get the explosion off. You are forced to switch your target as soon as you cast the spell and hope that your teammates won't kill the target (which they usually do), meaning that your "AOE" spells only damage one target. The only exception being bosses and minibosses where there are smaller targets around, in which case concentrating fire on the boss is the best solution. But against regular mobs ...

All of the bosses can pretty much be soloed if you have a lot of pots. The possible exception might be miner. Commando is probably best suited for soloing miner.

[Derajdefyre]

I hate to drive my own thread off topic when I've posted above, but as it stands, engineers stand no chance in PvP, which I recalling the devs originally saying would be more balanced than the PvP in PL. I note that ThisGuy has been conspicuously absent when asked to justify why ops would lose.

balanced doesn't necessarily mean all 1v1 combinations are evenly matched. I'd rather have an Engineer/Operative/Commando team than an Op/Op/Op team.

[Raulur]

I hate to drive my own thread off topic when I've posted above, but as it stands, engineers stand no chance in PvP, which I recalling the devs originally saying would be more balanced than the PvP in PL. I note that ThisGuy has been conspicuously absent when asked to justify why ops would lose.

@Raulur

I use the Veteran's Beta and Beyond Sniper Rifle and the Stoneklaz. Compared to an op with minesweepers, damage output from skills is negligible. For equipment, I use full neutronics, with the exception of the helmet (iHelmet).

On paper, an engineer should have a lot of damage output. In practice, spells like transferrence, leech, whither, and pain do far less damage than one would expect. Having a more powerful rifle means that your target dies sooner. Pain for example needs a couple of seconds to get the explosion off. You are forced to switch your target as soon as you cast the spell and hope that your teammates won't kill the target (which they usually do), meaning that your "AOE" spells only damage one target. The only exception being bosses and minibosses where there are smaller targets around, in which case concentrating fire on the boss is the best solution. But against regular mobs ...

All of the bosses can pretty much be soloed if you have a lot of pots. The possible exception might be miner. Commando is probably best suited for soloing miner.

I use the exact same equipment minus the Stoneklaz and substitute the plat backpack. I don't see what the problem is? I can solo anything but the assassin and miner without using but one or two stims, no enhancers. Maybe ppl are just too used to the rediculously overpowered PL mage? You can't just run in and expect to nuke everything here, and I think that is good.

In any case, it is still too early to tell. With no dual equipment builds, it will be easier for the devs to adjust balance that way.

[WhoIsThis]

balanced doesn't necessarily mean all 1v1 combinations are evenly matched. I'd rather have an Engineer/Operative/Commando team than an Op/Op/Op team.

That's pretty big stretch.

I don't know how often you PvP in PL, so I don't know how much experience you have. But you do realize that a significant proportion of PvP in PL is 1v1? PvP isn't 100% FFA.

Edit:
A good PvP experience for 1v1 is one where both sides are going to have a reasonable chance of winning. The deciding factors should be player skill, spell choices, the build used, and perhaps also equipment.

[WhoIsThis]

I use the exact same equipment minus the Stoneklaz and substitute the plat backpack. I don't see what the problem is? I can solo anything but the assassin and miner without using but one or two stims, no enhancers. Maybe ppl are just too used to the rediculously overpowered PL mage? You can't just run in and expect to nuke everything here, and I think that is good.

Engineer is arguably a superior build for soloing. But I am referring to team PvE, which is what this game emphasizes. The net damage output is minimal in a team environment. In a solo environment, the damage output is actually quite good. This is because of the nature of DOT. If your target dies, then your AOE is a one person spell that does less skill damage than a comparable operative or commando spell would. As I have repeatedly stated, when you charge in, you first have to cast spells like transferrence or pain. Then switch targets. This is a not a problem when soloing. This is serious problem in teams. One of your teammates will almost always kill off the target before your AOE goes off, except when facing bosses.

The PL mage did have its weaknesses. It did not excel at fighting bosses. Ever solo Gold Fever? The Coakroach? A pure dex bird kills perhaps as much as 2-3x faster due to break armor stacking. Furthermore, it was incredibly easy to get killed as a pure int mage. Ever try soloing the Catacombs? It's really easy to get killed when there's 5 slime creatures blasting fireballs at you. Similar arguments could be made about dex mage. Pally was different, but pally had low damage output by comparison.

I don't expect to run in and destroy everything in one volley (the game would be too easy). The problem is that the damage output of an engineer is substantially lower relative to the operative, while net survivability is inferior to that of the commando (despite the armor buff and 3 heal spells). I do not expect to the same single target damage as operative either, as this is their greatest strength. I do however expect the gap to be smaller.

@ Raulur:
Earlier, you attempted to argue that my damage output was low because of my equipment choices. I can see that this is not the case.

[Raulur]

I'm still not sure what you are complaining about when it is nothing but pure speculation on something that none of us have tried yet. I'm going to trust that the devs have tested pvp in-house and that all classes have a chance. Until we experience otherwise, this thread should diappear.

[iLikeTurtles]

im telling you guys right now. Engineers will be the dominating class in solo and grp pvp. They will be the first target of any grp, since if you know pvp well enough you always go for the healer. Problem is they dot like crazy, you dont need to hit the person every time to do damage therefore you can hit and run hit and run, stacking consistant dps on dots, all the while these dots heal your and cripple your opponent.

Its ofc too early to tell, but if a person knows how to play a engi right they should have no problem in pvp.

Now onto pve, I solo dungeons like a pro on my engi never needing 1 pot, and kill just fine.
They have great armor and if you know how to properly cast your skills you can have a very good and consistant mana regen, ( revive gives 1mp regen for 1min fyi) ontop of the shields regen you golden.

imo commando's would be the engi killer seeing as how the knock downs are abundant and ranged, Thats pretty much the way to kill an engi, you cant out heal them, you cant out dps them compared to stacked dots, you will have to pure cc them and have somoene else pound on them.

I am very excited to see how pvp plays out in this game, but i have a feeling engi will be top contender.

[ThisGuy0502]

im telling you guys right now. Engineers will be the dominating class in solo and grp pvp. They will be the first target of any grp, since if you know pvp well enough you always go for the healer. Problem is they dot like crazy, you dont need to hit the person every time to do damage therefore you can hit and run hit and run, stacking consistant dps on dots, all the while these dots heal your and cripple your opponent.

Its ofc too early to tell, but if a person knows how to play a engi right they should have no problem in pvp.

Now onto pve, I solo dungeons like a pro on my engi never needing 1 pot, and kill just fine.
They have great armor and if you know how to properly cast your skills you can have a very good and consistant mana regen, ( revive gives 1mp regen for 1min fyi) ontop of the shields regen you golden.

imo commando's would be the engi killer seeing as how the knock downs are abundant and ranged, Thats pretty much the way to kill an engi, you cant out heal them, you cant out dps them compared to stacked dots, you will have to pure cc them and have somoene else pound on them.

I am very excited to see how pvp plays out in this game, but i have a feeling engi will be top contender.

Amen!! See this guy gets me :p

[iLikeTurtles]

That's pretty big stretch.

I don't know how often you PvP in PL, so I don't know how much experience you have. But you do realize that a significant proportion of PvP in PL is 1v1? PvP isn't 100% FFA.

Edit:
A good PvP experience for 1v1 is one where both sides are going to have a reasonable chance of winning. The deciding factors should be player skill, spell choices, the build used, and perhaps also equipment.

stop comparing PL to SL. Apples to Oranges.

[WhoIsThis]

That's pretty big stretch.

I don't know how often you PvP in PL, so I don't know how much experience you have. But you do realize that a significant proportion of PvP in PL is 1v1? PvP isn't 100% FFA.

Edit:
A good PvP experience for 1v1 is one where both sides are going to have a reasonable chance of winning. The deciding factors should be player skill, spell choices, the build used, and perhaps also equipment.

stop comparing PL to SL. Apples to Oranges.


So are you saying that 1v1 PvP between different classes will also go away?

Remember, healing and running will be tough against operatives as well. First, they can lurch or use flame, which like commando, can stun and in the case of lurch, throw you back, leaving you briefly unable to counter. But they will also debuff you, which means that your DOT won't be as potent. Finally, skill for skill, weapon for weapon, their skills are the most potent, they do more damage.

All of this assumes that skills and game mechanics are similar to PvE. I suppose, judgement here needs to be withheld until actual PvP comes out.

[Akylies]

Leech, Empathy, and Transference all rock.

[ProSophist]

Why do people compare the damage of an engineer to an operative's?

Engineers aren't supposed to dish a lot of damage. Thy have multiple ways to heal themselves which no other class can do. Not to mention a couple of buffs.They need more of a tweak than a buff. A simple change in Protection and Force Shield would probably suffice.

They way I see it, they were meant to be some sort of a Warlock from WoW in terms of PvP. Dishing out a lot of DoTs and trying to survive in the process until the opponent dies.

[longsteak]

You guys all have to understand that STS is most likely going to balance pvp. We dont know if the damage and buffing is going to be the same as pve.

Also the engineer is NOT a killing class. It is a support class. But if played well, the engineer can get a lot of kills. You just have to keep in mind that the engineer is supposed to

1. Keep teammates alive
2. Weaken mobs and bosses. From what I've noticed, killing those elite mobs has been very easy and quick when you have an engineer in your team.

[WhoIsThis]

You guys all have to understand that STS is most likely going to balance pvp. We dont know if the damage and buffing is going to be the same as pve.

Also the engineer is NOT a killing class. It is a support class. But if played well, the engineer can get a lot of kills. You just have to keep in mind that the engineer is supposed to

1. Keep teammates alive
2. Weaken mobs and bosses. From what I've noticed, killing those elite mobs has been very easy and quick when you have an engineer in your team.


Six months later and sadly, this is not correct.



I have decided to necro this thread because I want to draw attention to the difficulties that engineers are experiencing these days in SL PvP.

[Swimmingstar]

Six months later and sadly, this is not correct.



I have decided to necro this thread because I want to draw attention to the difficulties that engineers are experiencing these days in SL PvP.

This is why I'm playing PL again.