Alienating Solo Players

[DarrenPR]

So I just ran Elite Ren'Gol (solo, as I usually do) and it felt more difficult than it did before this week's update. The mobs are hitting harder, and possibly even have more health. I consider myself relatively well geared - I'm using Nekro and razor shield mastery with arcane and mythic gear, yet I'm still finding myself going from full health to 0 health in an instant from some auto attacks by the mobs. This didn't happen to me before the update. I know that a lot of players don't run maps by themselves, but it would be nice if the game stayed possible to play solo at end game. I don't want it easy by any means, but I see no reason for difficulty to be "padded" up like other maps have been in the past, especially without any new loot in the maps. Maybe it's just a way for STS to push the new set onto us and force us into getting rid of our old gear. Either way, I'm finding it very impractical (almost impossible) to effectively solo elite Ren'Gol like I did before. I just want the game to be playable at end game without needing a full party of maxed gear players.

EDIT: After trying out some other maps, after hearing that other people are having similar issues, I am CONVINCED that level 56 elite mobs have been given a damage boost. I tried out elite Shuyal, elite Tindirin and elite Ren'Gol and they all feel like they are doing more damage than before.

[Zeus]

I think if it has been padded, it's been in anticipation of the new set. STG most likely wants you to use the new sets in both Ren'Gol and Glintstone. However, that being said, I too don't see a reason to pad anything yet when not one person even has the set. If set gets to be more common, then that makes sense.

[Lolifee]

i guess it may be bc of the team changes? so full partys have it easier than solo players?

-loli

[Carapace]

So I just ran Elite Ren'Gol (solo, as I usually do) and it felt more difficult than it did before this week's update. The mobs are hitting harder, and possibly even have more health. I consider myself relatively well geared - I'm using Nekro and razor shield mastery with arcane and mythic gear, yet I'm still finding myself going from full health to 0 health in an instant from some auto attacks by the mobs. This didn't happen to me before the update. I know that a lot of players don't run maps by themselves, but it would be nice if the game stayed possible to play solo at end game. I don't want it easy by any means, but I see no reason for difficulty to be "padded" up like other maps have been in the past, especially without any new loot in the maps. Maybe it's just a way for STS to push the new set onto us and force us into getting rid of our old gear. Either way, I'm finding it very impractical (almost impossible) to effectively solo elite Ren'Gol like I did before. I just want the game to be playable at end game without needing a full party of maxed gear players.

Interesting, to my knowledge no change of this sort has intentionally gone in except for the Time Shift Freeze immunity on Orc Shamans and Hulking Brutes for PvE balance reasons.

[Serancha]

A lot of players do play solo.

The whole "pick up and play" concept of the game means that this needs to be allowed for. It's not "pick up, spend half an hour waiting for a party, and have to log off before you get to run". I don't think it should be easy to solo, but if someone's got the gear and the skill, they should be able to manage most things on their own. I also wonder about these "party" bonuses and how much they will unbalance things for those in solo parties.

[DarrenPR]

Interesting, to my knowledge no change of this sort has intentionally gone in except for the Time Shift Freeze immunity on Orc Shamans and Hulking Brutes for PvE balance reasons.

Just be sure to keep us solo players in mind when you're moving forward with development. I don't want end game to become impossible to do solo.

[stricker20000]

Interesting, to my knowledge no change of this sort has intentionally gone in except for the Time Shift Freeze immunity on Orc Shamans and Hulking Brutes for PvE balance reasons.

Well definitely is harder now. We did rest of 500boss ap there so we can judge it pretty well.

[bonjovi3223]

Rengol aka Glinstone Cavern maps seem to have scaled up to your level.
I used to be very easily able to run the normal maps with lepre but now even with AR & PP the mobs have become killers for me at lv56. I run with the underhul mythics which have added armor. I think our 46 gears are not viable on any maps from rengol & above & hence we are feeling the increased difficulty.
Jus my 2 coins :)

[Faliziaga]

Interesting, to my knowledge no change of this sort has intentionally gone in except for the Time Shift Freeze immunity on Orc Shamans and Hulking Brutes for PvE balance reasons.

Mobs deal more damage and have more hp. Interesting, that devs don't know about this. Interesting too, that devs give out important infos in chat box. Sorry for rant , but really ????!!!

[Maarkus]

Interesting, to my knowledge no change of this sort has intentionally gone in except for the Time Shift Freeze immunity on Orc Shamans and Hulking Brutes for PvE balance reasons.

Please reconfirm as i myself solo a lot and i can confirm based on my runs that there is a significant increase in mob difficulty. I usually solo shuyal and tindrin and i can feel that the mobs are tougher. I honestly thought this was intentional.l but since you mentioned its not, then i might as well inform yah that im experiencing a change in the shuyal and tindrin maps.

Thanks for reading

[DarrenPR]

Rengol aka Glinstone Cavern maps seem to have scaled up to your level.
I used to be very easily able to run the normal maps with lepre but now even with AR & PP the mobs have become killers for me at lv56. I run with the underhul mythics which have added armor. I think our 46 gears are not viable on any maps from rengol & above & hence we are feeling the increased difficulty.
Jus my 2 coins :)

I appreciate the insight, but this is not the difficulty increase I'm noticing. I am comparing lvl 56 cap with 46 armor prior to this week's update and post rogue armor nerf vs today (with same lvl same gears, same everything). I'm aware that the level difference between myself and my 46 gear causes an increase in difficulty, but I put that into consideration when making the original post.

[Eagleye]

Yea rengol got scaled up it's way harder at 56 when it should be easier if we're going by common logic

[DarrenPR]

Bump to make post edit relevant - 56 elite mobs are definitely hitting harder now than they were before.

[Safiras]

I have also noticed an increased mob difficulty from at least Shuyal elites onwards. Me and some of my guildies were trying to run for Elite APs and we found that the mobs were harder to kill and also hit harder than before this week's update. With the same team (rogue, mage, tank with near-maxed gear) it took us 2 mins more to clear Elite Ashral Tower than before. Don't have screenshots but I will add later if I run the place again.

[konafez]

I refer to this stuff as the area 51 buff / nerf program ..no one is sure if it was supposed to happen or if someone dropped the ball somewhere

Some elite mobs have been padded

Jewel drops are down to a trickle

I blane aliens ....

[Fredystern]

So I just ran Elite Ren'Gol (solo, as I usually do) and it felt more difficult than it did before this week's update. The mobs are hitting harder, and possibly even have more health. I consider myself relatively well geared - I'm using Nekro and razor shield mastery with arcane and mythic gear, yet I'm still finding myself going from full health to 0 health in an instant from some auto attacks by the mobs. This didn't happen to me before the update. I know that a lot of players don't run maps by themselves, but it would be nice if the game stayed possible to play solo at end game. I don't want it easy by any means, but I see no reason for difficulty to be "padded" up like other maps have been in the past, especially without any new loot in the maps. Maybe it's just a way for STS to push the new set onto us and force us into getting rid of our old gear. Either way, I'm finding it very impractical (almost impossible) to effectively solo elite Ren'Gol like I did before. I just want the game to be playable at end game without needing a full party of maxed gear players.

EDIT: After trying out some other maps, after hearing that other people are having similar issues, I am CONVINCED that level 56 elite mobs have been given a damage boost. I tried out elite Shuyal, elite Tindirin and elite Ren'Gol and they all feel like they are doing more damage than before.

Your level was 56?

[Serancha]

I refer to this stuff as the area 51 buff / nerf program ..no one is sure if it was supposed to happen or if someone dropped the ball somewhere

Some elite mobs have been padded

Jewel drops are down to a trickle

I blane aliens ....

A lot of time in development, when you change one thing, it has multiple unintended consequences. Sometimes things that are totally unrelated to the thing changed end up altering. I'd go with aliens too though - it's more fun than any technical explanation about property inheritances.

[Fyrce]

Aliens are always best. And yeah, its hard to tell relationships betw all the different parts sometimes. And at this point, mightbe too diificult to revamp all objects and structures. So definitely, aliens!

[extrapayah]

anyway, i also farmed fangs post expansion, until around level 49, solo,

i think there wasn't any change though, but there is (again) an abnormal difficulty jump between level 49-53 mobs, because at 53, mobs already have almost double health and more than 150% damage (in example a suicidal orc archer usually hits me 4k without durability upgrade, now 7k, with durability upgrade), and the difficulty jump is happening on every scaled up maps, except normal tindirin which stop scaling at 52.

so devs might not be wrong saying that they aren't changing anything, they only followed a flawed scaling formula that has been there since expansion

[Earlingstad]

The M in MMO means multiplayer. Its not a solo player game. Most of the "balance issues" arise because the loners among us unnecessarily view it from a single-player perspective. The game needs to be viewed as a team game and changes should be made while always prioritizing this aspect - play together as a team. Maps should not be possible to be done solo.

Like PVE, PVP should also be played as a team-game. In PVP in other games its been seen that "ganking" is a strategy. If you are jungling solo when it is time to gang enemies, you are deemed a noob. And in AL, in team game of 5 and 5, players strut around judging themselves and those around them based on solo v solo. That perspective needs to change and focus of the game needs to go to "playing as a party/team". Unnecessary nerfs to classes and "balance problems" have arisen out of this "solo outlook" in a multiplayer game.

What we need in the game - combined skills (that requires all 3 classes), harder mobs on pve maps, team victories for pvp.

[Avaree]

So I just ran Elite Ren'Gol (solo, as I usually do) and it felt more difficult than it did before this week's update. The mobs are hitting harder, and possibly even have more health. I consider myself relatively well geared - I'm using Nekro and razor shield mastery with arcane and mythic gear, yet I'm still finding myself going from full health to 0 health in an instant from some auto attacks by the mobs. This didn't happen to me before the update. I know that a lot of players don't run maps by themselves, but it would be nice if the game stayed possible to play solo at end game. I don't want it easy by any means, but I see no reason for difficulty to be "padded" up like other maps have been in the past, especially without any new loot in the maps. Maybe it's just a way for STS to push the new set onto us and force us into getting rid of our old gear. Either way, I'm finding it very impractical (almost impossible) to effectively solo elite Ren'Gol like I did before. I just want the game to be playable at end game without needing a full party of maxed gear players.

EDIT: After trying out some other maps, after hearing that other people are having similar issues, I am CONVINCED that level 56 elite mobs have been given a damage boost. I tried out elite Shuyal, elite Tindirin and elite Ren'Gol and they all feel like they are doing more damage than before.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?313733-Normal-Ren-gol-difficulty-at-level-56

Also noticed normal ren'gol maps are doing more dmg too.

[Serancha]

The M in MMO means multiplayer. Its not a solo player game. Most of the "balance issues" arise because the loners among us unnecessarily view it from a single-player perspective. The game needs to be viewed as a team game and changes should be made while always prioritizing this aspect - play together as a team. Maps should not be possible to be done solo.

Like PVE, PVP should also be played as a team-game. In PVP in other games its been seen that "ganking" is a strategy. If you are jungling solo when it is time to gang enemies, you are deemed a noob. And in AL, in team game of 5 and 5, players strut around judging themselves and those around them based on solo v solo. That perspective needs to change and focus of the game needs to go to "playing as a party/team". Unnecessary nerfs to classes and "balance problems" have arisen out of this "solo outlook" in a multiplayer game.

What we need in the game - combined skills (that requires all 3 classes), harder mobs on pve maps, team victories for pvp.

Massively multiplayer, not mandatory multiplayer. The very concept of a mobile mmo is that you can pick it up, play for 10 minutes while you wait for the bus, then log off again. That's how they market the game. Forcing people to only run in parties (without allowing for soloing) completely defeats that concept. MMO doesn't mean you have to run with other people, it means everyone is in the same world where they can interact with each other if they choose. It should never be a forced thing. It hasn't been for 3 1/2 years.

[DarrenPR]

The M in MMO means multiplayer. Its not a solo player game. Most of the "balance issues" arise because the loners among us unnecessarily view it from a single-player perspective. The game needs to be viewed as a team game and changes should be made while always prioritizing this aspect - play together as a team. Maps should not be possible to be done solo.

Like PVE, PVP should also be played as a team-game. In PVP in other games its been seen that "ganking" is a strategy. If you are jungling solo when it is time to gang enemies, you are deemed a noob. And in AL, in team game of 5 and 5, players strut around judging themselves and those around them based on solo v solo. That perspective needs to change and focus of the game needs to go to "playing as a party/team". Unnecessary nerfs to classes and "balance problems" have arisen out of this "solo outlook" in a multiplayer game.

What we need in the game - combined skills (that requires all 3 classes), harder mobs on pve maps, team victories for pvp.

I disagree with this assessment. MMO does mean massively multiplayer online, but does not mean you are, or should, be required to play with other players. If my enjoyment of the game relies on whether or not other people are online, willing to run certain maps, have certain gear, have the right spec, I'm going to be finding myself enjoying the game less and less as it moves forward. Any player should be able to enjoy the game without the requirement of 3 other people being online and willing to run your specific map with you at any given time. As Serancha mentioned, the mobile MMO that is Arcane Legends is advertised as a "pick up and play" game. If I have to wait 2 hours for someone to be willing to run the ever-increasing-in-difficulty-with-no-new-rewards maps of the end game, and have it not be possible without other people, that is by no means "pick up and play".

[Zeus]

Can you show us a video of solo? Arena or the new maps is fine. :)

[Eagleye]

Can you show us a video of solo? Arena or the new maps is fine. :)

Have u played arena alone since cap came? It's pretty easy to beat by yourself now dude

[Zeus]

Have u played arena alone since cap came? It's pretty easy to beat by yourself now dude

Ye, my solo time is 1:44...

[twoxc]

Have you taken into account that right when expansion hit or when level cap came. Wasn't sure which one lol. ROGUE did get a huge nerfed in armor. So the way I see it. Rogue got weaker in armor by huge amount, while capping to 56 and of course end game elite mob get scaled to 56 thus getting stronger. So if you're wondering why they are getting stronger. That's probably why and sts is doing this because they want more variety of team play in end game elite or normal map such as underhul. Don't want mage/warrior to get left out anymore.

From what I've notice. Normal map underhul now is actually harder now for a team of rogue to tackle it then to just bring a warrior or Mage in cause it make things so much easier and faster and definitely warrior is killing off mobs easy and faster then rogue do in underhul and rogue is needed to of course speed up the boss kill. The way sts is headed is actually definitely the right direction in team play class equality for PVE.

So now you want end game to get Nerf so rogue as yourself can enjoy solo easier and faster and doesn't die? Half the world of arlor map elite are solo able and easy just saying or maybe try being a warrior. You can slowly kill things and complete the whole map and definitely won't die, will just be super slow like maybe 15-20mins. Just saying.

All I know is. Rogue can't survive and take hits as hard as before since that armor Nerf. Rogue once had normal armor base with armor passive around 2100 actually close to 2200. Now if you look at with even the right gears if you're going for armors it's like 1900 at most without losing HUGE amount of damage and if you want to stick to damage or just balance in between the two. Rogue is now average at 1700-1800 armor.

So it's not the PVE MOBS. ITS ROGUE that's being fixed to balance between the 3 class as all 3 class is needed for elite maps etc etc for efficient farming or just game play.

[DarrenPR]

Have you taken into account that right when expansion hit or when level cap came. Wasn't sure which one lol. ROGUE did get a huge nerfed in armor. So the way I see it. Rogue got weaker in armor by huge amount, while capping to 56 and of course end game elite mob get scaled to 56 thus getting stronger. So if you're wondering why they are getting stronger. That's probably why and sts is doing this because they want more variety of team play in end game elite or normal map such as underhul. Don't want mage/warrior to get left out anymore.

From what I've notice. Normal map underhul now is actually harder now for a team of rogue to tackle it then to just bring a warrior or Mage in cause it make things so much easier and faster and definitely warrior is killing off mobs easy and faster then rogue do in underhul and rogue is needed to of course speed up the boss kill. The way sts is headed is actually definitely the right direction in team play class equality for PVE.

So now you want end game to get Nerf so rogue as yourself can enjoy solo easier and faster and doesn't die? Half the world of arlor map elite are solo able and easy just saying or maybe try being a warrior. You can slowly kill things and complete the whole map and definitely won't die, will just be super slow like maybe 15-20mins. Just saying.

All I know is. Rogue can't survive and take hits as hard as before since that armor Nerf. Rogue once had normal armor base with armor passive around 2100 actually close to 2200. Now if you look at with even the right gears if you're going for armors it's like 1900 at most without losing HUGE amount of damage and if you want to stick to damage or just balance in between the two. Rogue is now average at 1700-1800 armor.

So it's not the PVE MOBS. ITS ROGUE that's being fixed to balance between the 3 class as all 3 class is needed for elite maps etc etc for efficient farming or just game play.

I am aware of the armor nerf for rogues. And honestly, I was able to solo elite ren'gol with a death here or there if I got stunned by a group of mobs while my razor or nekro were both on cool down and got smacked by a bomb (90% hp in 1 shot) and some autos, even after the rogue armor nerf. After this last update where I ran ren'gol the first run, I must have died 15-20 times on 1 run from being 1-shot by nothing but auto attacks. This thread has really become more of a "why did the mobs get a dmg buff last update" rather than "I can't solo" thread. Something did change when this last update got rolled out - to the mobs that scale to the current level cap. They got increased damage. Carapace said that it was unintentional if they did, so I am hoping the dev team can look into it when they get back into the office in 8 hours.

[Bunny♥]

thank you for this post. This is indeed true.

I just hope they will check this out and investigate to get it fixed. Some of us use elite maps to gather APS while taking time to level but having this issue is now affecting players (like me) who wanted to level up while doing APS. (/_\)

[Serancha]

Can you show us a video of solo? Arena or the new maps is fine. :)

Arena hasn't been scaled up for 2 seasons. I don't think that counts as elite anymore.

[Carapace]

So we did scale the higher end of the attributes for Ren'gol for level 61+, however this should not have made a noticeable change even at level 56. Having said that, there are adjustments coming soon but they are going to be based on the new Elite content about to release and not on the previous content values. Thank you for finding and pointing this out.

[Michael Woolley]

So I was in elite rengol soloing today and the mobs do appear stronger. I will also add that the suicide archer did not die when he threw his suicide grenade. Something strange I thought.

[Hartholzwurm]

So we did scale the higher end of the attributes for Ren'gol for level 61+, however this should not have made a noticeable change even at level 56. Having said that, there are adjustments coming soon but they are going to be based on the new Elite content about to release and not on the previous content values. Thank you for finding and pointing this out.

Hy.....just a question: when are you going to downcale to current lvl 56?

[konafez]

So we did scale the higher end of the attributes for Ren'gol for level 61+, however this should not have made a noticeable change even at level 56. Having said that, there are adjustments coming soon but they are going to be based on the new Elite content about to release and not on the previous content values. Thank you for finding and pointing this out.

I knew it! Area 51 buff/nerf program strikes again.

The aliens have landed, and there working for Sts!

[stricker20000]

So we did scale the higher end of the attributes for Ren'gol for level 61+, however this should not have made a noticeable change even at level 56. Having said that, there are adjustments coming soon but they are going to be based on the new Elite content about to release and not on the previous content values. Thank you for finding and pointing this out.

Why did you scale Ren'gol (previous caps maps (lvl46)) to ??LVL 61+?? I mean it's lvl 56 cap now, so what is the reason for lvl 61+?

[extrapayah]

Why did you scale Ren'gol (previous caps maps (lvl46)) to ??LVL 61+?? I mean it's lvl 56 cap now, so what is the reason for lvl 61+?
i think he meant rengol will be able to scale up until 61, so it is competitive ready until the next expansion,

anyway, i think the root of the problem is scale up... with how damage reduction is calculated, (and how manacost increasing by level), scaling up mobs level contradicts progression of players, making them relatively weaker than in their previous levels, by most players' logic, you should absolutely be stronger by each level. ofc it is possible to keep the difficulty reasonable, but devs need to be proactive, testing, and tweaking the parameters by actual playing data/information. but it's not easy to do, and may take focus out of from improving new maps. here, some quote:

Yea rengol got scaled up it's way harder at 56 when it should be easier if we're going by common logic

and the other is scaling by number of party, making runs in party not always give positive value nor increased effectiveness. increasing the reluctance of running in parties. i think you should either remove this scaling, or provide an option to choose between running in a full scaled, full difficulty maps, or normal soloable maps. you can probably make it to turn on if we're running in a pre-invited party members. and ofc, give additional incentives to run in this pre-invited party. or make this as a mandatory when running timed lb. or a tiered elite, like his idea:

1. i want more customisable inventory, such all the same item will be stackable, and we have like expand button, so we can delete all the same thing once or one by one from expanded button. it will help so we must not scrolling a hundred same item to get what we need in the bottom if the inventory
2. i want like elite maps have tier, maybe easy, normal, hard. so player with lowest gear can farming too but offcourse with lower drop rate. and the hard one is for overpowered player which still want play with stategy in adition increased drop rate.

[ilhanna]

So we did scale the higher end of the attributes for Ren'gol for level 61+, however this should not have made a noticeable change even at level 56. Having said that, there are adjustments coming soon but they are going to be based on the new Elite content about to release and not on the previous content values. Thank you for finding and pointing this out.

At least this time you guys admit it. Anyway did you try the map after you scaled it? How did you conclude that it shouldn't be a problem for level 56? Remember we're level 56 wearing a mix of level 41 and 46 gear, not level 61.

Also I noticed the same ridiculous ninja scaling had been done to Shuyal elite, not just Ren'gol.