What Makes Archers Unique?

[PvP]

I never make a thread to simply complain, unless it is for the benefit of the main point. Please read through the entire thread if you can, so that hopefully you will grasp the point I'm trying to make.

Starting Pocket Legends I wanted to build my character for PvP that would be coming in the future. What has the most DPS in nearly every game? The archer/scout class. So, of course, I chose the archer glass. I became level 30. I loved every aspect of the gameplay, the design, everything that everyone loves. I saw hybrids, and I knew they were useful, but I never knew to what extent....Until PvP rolled around.

If I asked you what the best PvP build was, what would you say? I don't even think you have to give a second thought to this one, it should be pretty obvious if you know your facts. The bow bear has some mad buffs that make it an army tank and with the DPS of an archer it comes with a fully loaded machine gun. I've heard the argument millions of times: Bow bears are over-powered. They can tank, and they can kill as quick as possible. Making my in-game account for mainly PvP purposes, I feel subjected to make this argument. What is the point in a regular archer? If I can have buffs that are 10x as good and I can tank with less deaths, less pots, and still hit very high, why bother? An enchantress heals and helps kill, a bear is a tank that does THE killing, so why bother with an archer? I know that we can't simply strip bow bears of their power, that wouldn't be right in any way. What about upgrading an archer's capabailites, buffs, or more? Possibly. Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of over-all armor to class stat boost? If I'm an archer and I have archer armor should I get more dexterity, or something along these lines? This might be a solution, but it could cause even more misunderstandings. What can be done then? The archer needs to be unique, in its own way, as the enchantress is to healing and the bear is to tanking. I feel it has been somewhat robbed of its high DPS abilities and combined with the tanking qualities to make an unstoppable machine. What does that leave the archer with that makes him stand out? In my honest opinion, I would say not much at all. He's a bird I guess. I can't make everyone agree with this, but you can't deny most of the facts either. So, for the future of "pure" birds, I wanted to suggest something that can be made specifically for these birds that would make them seperate and put that pillar in the mix seperating them from the over-powered bear, and putting it into a class of its own. I need suggestions from the community, that would help improve the birds status. What can be done without changing whats already done? Lets improve the future. Pets will come out. There will be houses, quests. So much can be done to set classes apart. So what do you have to say about it? Heck, I would be happy enough just to hear that each class gets a different pet. How can we put archers apart? I will put my favorite ideas on the post below. I felt I needed to post this because I don't see much hope to set us apart. We seem to be out-buffed, out maneuvered, and just beat-out. I know everyone won't agree with this, but even if you don't, what suggestions might you have? Thank you for taking time to read all of this, and hopefully I can use your opinion to make the point known.

[PvP]

Reserved for comments and suggestions.


Idea: Avians get extra bonus from archer gear, Elves from mage gear, Bears from warrior gear. Example, Focus improves damage if the avian is wearing a bow; Heal increases when the elf wears a staff; 2h sword attack speed becomes faster if a bear equips them. The examples might be overpowered, but they're just to explain the concept.

We don't need to nerf hybrids. Before you guys suggest that a certain skills should do less, remember that these same skills are used by the non-hybrids. But yes I want to find reason to play my avian as a Dex build again, too.

Btw, the OP was talking about how to improve pure archer builds. Let's not turn this thread into another hybrid vs. purebreed flamewar.

[Azrael]

I think they are op, but avians still do more burst damage. Once the burst is done though the bow bear will generally still do better.

try 2h archer, they are equally ridiculous just like bow bear.

[King Richie]

@pvp --- I agree completley with this thread .. I feel like pure dex archers are becoming extinct just because of the fact that they cannot stack up to not only hybrids but other classes .. Since the mages got their power up ( which I do agree was much needed ) archers now have trouble taking down a skilled enchantress ! ..

The most obnoxious thing though is the bow bear and bow chantress ! Because they both have a rage ability they can send there dps sky high .. Which an archer just can't stack up to even though were soppoused to be the dps class ..

I know this rant hasn't been helpful to finding a soloution and I don't claim to have one !! Finding a soloution to this problem and all the other balance problems in PvP will be very difficult and the devs definately have there work cut out for them but I do hope that A soloution is found !

@az --- yeah the 2h bird is strong but that's the thing I want to be an archer .. I don't want to have to respec to stack up against obnoxious set ups like the bow bear I want my class to be able to kill your class no matter what it is.. That's fair! And that is the way that every mmo I have played has been !! Every class could stack up against other classes and that was fair .. Ofcourse healers couldn't kill tanks but they could at least survive long enought to run away while healing !

[Rebel]

@az --- yeah the 2h bird is strong but that's the thing I want to be an archer .. I don't want to have to respec to stack up against obnoxious set ups like the bow bear I want my class to be able to kill your class no matter what it is.. That's fair! And that is tge way that every mmo I have played has been !! Every class could stack up against other classes and that was fair .. Ofcourse healers couldn't kill tanks but they could at least survive long enought to run away while healing !

Exactly! Every class should atleast have a chance against every other class. This is the fair thing, yet it is so hard to accomplish. I think that if we had a wider variety of classes to choose from, the easier that it would be to give everyone a chance.

[PvP]

Hoping a dev might see this thread and give their input and what can be done if they choose to do anything. Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate the support.

[King Richie]

Exactly! Every class should atleast have a chance against every other class. This is the fair thing, yet it is so hard to accomplish. I think that if we had a wider variety of classes to choose from, the easier that it would be to give everyone a chance.

This is true but because PL is such a small game I can't see more classes being introduced at least soon anyway .. The devs have already hinted on creating a basic character model first so this means no more bears and all that .. This is obviously just to make sure hybrids look normal while holding a weapon not for their class !

But if more classes are introduced this will slightly solve the problem .. UNTILL more way more obnoxious classes are discovered

[Sayishere]

recently i have noticed this and agree completely. come on now, people who say pvp is balanced needs a slap. i play a archer, i was a pure dex archer but now a archer mage because i wanted to try something different. now that ive tryed it im bored and want to go back to being a dex archer. but the thing with archer is as the op says its just a pointless class now

archers should be doing the most damage out of any class period.

why the hell...i mean seriously...WHY are TANKS and HEALERS allowed to do burst damage ANYWHERE NEAR AN ARCHERS!

i dont understand, this damage is to much, its 1 shot madness or 3 shot madness

the benefits of an archer should have been the best burst damage, the BEST RANGE. archer has none of these due to bowbears and bowmages

the pvp is broke, completely broke, the damage has to be stabalized. the bowbears will cry and say NO NO ITS FINE AS IT IS, lol, of course they would say that, now they cant go around killing 3 people in a row and still be alive

mages have their nice aoe damage and healing, bears just have everything right now lol, archers are not weak dont get me wrong but they dont have any reedeming features that make it unique anymore. im getting quite bored of my archer

[vulgarstrike]

archers lay eggs

[King Richie]

If I had the ability to repic my race I would pick Mage that's how desperate the problem has gotten !!

[PvP]

recently i have noticed this and agree completely. come on now, people who say pvp is balanced needs a slap. i play a archer, i was a pure dex archer but now a archer mage because i wanted to try something different. now that ive tryed it im bored and want to go back to being a dex archer. but the thing with archer is as the op says its just a pointless class now

archers should be doing the most damage out of any class period.

why the hell...i mean seriously...WHY are TANKS and HEALERS allowed to do burst damage ANYWHERE NEAR AN ARCHERS!

i dont understand, this damage is to much, its 1 shot madness or 3 shot madness

the benefits of an archer should have been the best burst damage, the BEST RANGE. archer has none of these due to bowbears and bowmages

the pvp is broke, completely broke, the damage has to be stabalized. the bowbears will cry and say NO NO ITS FINE AS IT IS, lol, of course they would say that, now they cant go around killing 3 people in a row and still be alive

mages have their nice aoe damage and healing, bears just have everything right now lol, archers are not weak dont get me wrong but they dont have any reedeming features that make it unique anymore. im getting quite bored of my archer

Yes I agree. Thats why we can't strip them of their power, all the updates have to be progressive updates for the future, unless we would give archers something like better buffs or bonuses. However I have a feeling that might cause more misunderstandings.

[King Richie]

Yes I agree. Thats why we can't strip them of their power, all the updates have to be progressive updates for the future, unless we would give archers something like better buffs or bonuses. However I have a feeling that might cause more misunderstandings.

That's what I was trying to get at in my first post !! These minor updates which focus on one class anymore cannot be done they cause more problems then they fix .. What the devs need to do is sit down and think how to fix it make it balanced so everyone can enjoy the class they want to play ! Hybrid or purebread !

The devs have done a great job so far and I belive they can fix this and when this is fixed this game will be a force to reckon with on the MMO scene

[Banned]

@pvp --- I agree completley with this thread .. I feel like pure dex archers are becoming extinct just because of the fact that they cannot stack up to not only hybrids but other classes .. Since the mages got their power up ( which I do agree was much needed ) archers now have trouble taking down a skilled enchantress ! ..

The most obnoxious thing though is the bow bear and bow chantress ! Because they both have a rage ability they can send there dps sky high .. Which an archer just can't stack up to even though were soppoused to be the dps class ..

I know this rant hasn't been helpful to finding a soloution and I don't claim to have one !! Finding a soloution to this problem and all the other balance problems in PvP will be very difficult and the devs definately have there work cut out for them but I do hope that A soloution is found !

@az --- yeah the 2h bird is strong but that's the thing I want to be an archer .. I don't want to have to respec to stack up against obnoxious set ups like the bow bear I want my class to be able to kill your class no matter what it is.. That's fair! And that is the way that every mmo I have played has been !! Every class could stack up against other classes and that was fair .. Ofcourse healers couldn't kill tanks but they could at least survive long enought to run away while healing !

Classes should stack up against each other. To bad hybrids aren't classes. The devs have already stated numerous times that they won't be going away anytime soon.

[King Richie]

Banned i have no where in that post asked for hybrids to be removed ., I asked for a soloution on how to make it fun for everyone

[Banned]

Banned i have no where in that post asked for hybrids to be removed ., I asked for a soloution on how to make it fun for everyone

I didn't say that you wanted hybrids to be removed. I only posted the dev thing to show that the devs approve of hybrids and that there's no point in complaining. I think the only solution is to add at least 3 more classes and introduce secondary professions to please the hybrid lovers.

[King Richie]

Yeah I agree with the new classes we have talked about that already .. But untill then a short term soloution must be found .

[Banned]

Yeah I agree with the new classes we have talked about that already .. But untill then a short term soloution must be found .

I dunno man. They aren't classes, so ATTEMPTING to somehow tweak them could screw over the sword and shield user.

[King Richie]

I no it's a very delicate process but an attempt hast to be made and if they have already made an attempt thank you and keep trying :)

[PvP]

No matter what there has to be some kind of solution, there are just too many unsatisfied archers. I'm not so sure new classes are the answer, but we can definitely fix it. Who knows what quests and pets will bring? I'm thinking in the mist of those updates there will be something that seperates us. If not, I (as well as many other archers) might not have enough enthusiasm to make a "bow bear" just to start over and attempt to dominate in PvP which is the only on-going activity other then farming and merchanting.

[Banned]

I seriously think warriors are overpowered in general. High armor, high dps, high health, and crazy buffs. It's like fighting a furry version of God.

[Banned]

No matter what there has to be some kind of solution, there are just too many unsatisfied archers. I'm not so sure new classes are the answer, but we can definitely fix it. Who knows what quests and pets will bring? I'm thinking in the mist of those updates there will be something that seperates us. If not, I (as well as many other archers) might not have enough enthusiasm to make a "bow bear" just to start over and attempt to dominate in PvP which is the only on-going activity other then farming and merchanting.

Well, then simply come up with some sort of solution. One that doesn't involve nerfing them.

[King Richie]

I could not be arsed creating a new char so if it got to the point where archers just became that nerf class I'd have to say asta lasange to PL

[Sayishere]

mages are alot tougher now i noticed, which is a good thing, ofc it has to be played smart since they are weaker but thats fine, some work is needed to be good

i personally feel crit buffs and evasion buffs need to be nerfed in some way, right now its 50 percent increase with full points, this means everyone is running with almost 70 percent crit or more

this means all hits are crits. normal damage from weapon is very low when it isnt a crit, the crits in general do alot of damage, this needs to be addressed in some fashion

another thing is bears, they take to much damage and do to much damage, one class should not have the privilege to do it all, archers have evasion which is all fine and dandy but the new buffs we have fixes this, i mean its like 25% of for example 60 percent dodge

this definately makes dodge much less of a problem as it was before, but its just bears man, i dunno, they just take to much damage, which is fine since they are a tank but MEHHHHHHH

devs should really concentrate on fixing pvp as their number one thing imo, its all good adding in new features but fix whats already there or at least keep ideas coming

[Banned]

mages are alot tougher now i noticed, which is a good thing, ofc it has to be played smart since they are weaker but thats fine, some work is needed to be good

i personally feel crit buffs and evasion buffs need to be nerfed in some way, right now its 50 percent increase with full points, this means everyone is running with almost 70 percent crit or more

this means all hits are crits. normal damage from weapon is very low when it isnt a crit, the crits in general do alot of damage, this needs to be addressed in some fashion

another thing is bears, they take to much damage and do to much damage, one class should not have the privilege to do it all, archers have evasion which is all fine and dandy but the new buffs we have fixes this, i mean its like 25% of for example 60 percent dodge

this definately makes dodge much less of a problem as it was before, but its just bears man, i dunno, they just take to much damage, which is fine since they are a tank but MEHHHHHHH

devs should really concentrate on fixing pvp as their number one thing imo, its all good adding in new features but fix whats already there or at least keep ideas coming

Exactly, they really need to tone down bears.

[Azrael]

For the record, I don't like the hybrid system kingeichie, I was sorta being a bit sarcastic and and a tiny bit bitter in that post on the first page.

[Lucky Seven]

I seriously think warriors are overpowered in general. High armor, high dps, high health, and crazy buffs. It's like fighting a furry version of God.
Man, you just blew my mind with that parable of bear being equivalent to God. So epic.

[Banned]

Man, you just blew my mind with that parable of bear being equivalent to God. So epic.

Banned- Blowing minds since 1992.

[Neurion]

Idea: Avians get extra bonus from archer gear, Elves from mage gear, Bears from warrior gear. Example, Focus improves damage if the avian is wearing a bow; Heal increases when the elf wears a staff; 2h sword attack speed becomes faster if a bear equips them. The examples might be overpowered, but they're just to explain the concept.

We don't need to nerf hybrids. Before you guys suggest that a certain skills should do less, remember that these same skills are used by the non-hybrids. But yes I want to find reason to play my avian as a Dex build again, too.

Btw, the OP was talking about how to improve pure archer builds. Let's not turn this thread into another hybrid vs. purebreed flamewar.

[PvP]

Yeah I was trying to get that across, that might be our best bet right now. I'll post your comment on the front page.

[Azrael]

Idea: Avians get extra bonus from archer gear, Elves from mage gear, Bears from warrior gear. Example, Focus improves damage if the avian is wearing a bow; Heal increases when the elf wears a staff; 2h sword attack speed becomes faster if a bear equips them. The examples might be overpowered, but they're just to explain the concept.

We don't need to nerf hybrids. Before you guys suggest that a certain skills should do less, remember that these same skills are used by the non-hybrids. But yes I want to find reason to play my avian as a Dex build again, too.

Btw, the OP was talking about how to improve pure archer builds. Let's not turn this thread into another hybrid vs. purebreed flamewar.

I don't like this idea at all. First off damage is way to high as is on most if not all class set ups, especially the buffs like focus and rage.
Secondly it just adds another layer of duct tape onto the problem that is class balance. "fixes" like this are just momentary, and always fall apart when new weapons and skills and levels are added to the game. They are temporary fixes that just brush a problem under the rug rather than actually addressing the underlying problems with the game.

You guys keep complaining about bowbears, yet some of you want hybrid classes to still exists. Let me tell you, you can tweak a class that doesn't exist on its own. There will never be a real solution to this until PVP is completely overhauled. Rebels thread on the suggestions forums has the right idea.

[Cascade]

To be honest I have only played PvP once I find it kinda of not very fun. I liked runescape's Pvp system because you actually get something for defeating the other player. I think it might be a good idea if you get one item that the other player has regardless the lvl just a random item and if they lose their best item that's their fault for taking the risk of PvP. Feedback?

[PvP]

I'd just be happy if anything gets done period. The devs haven't seemed to adress this issue in ages.

[vulgarstrike]

which means they're doing a giant overhaul that will make pvp amazig

[PvP]

Yeah. They have their work cut out for them, but it all depends on how they view it.

[PvP]

Thought I'd bump this thread while servers are down.

[Sayishere]

i would like to link rebels thread about pvp balance because there are valid points within

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?3151-My-Suggestion-on-PvP-Balance

[PvP]

I like his thread. Also, I've been playing PvP a lot more recently. I can not stand the hybrids. The DPS class is the most under-rated class. This doesn't make sense, and I will more then likely quit if it stays like this. Have you ever heard of a game where the tank is the DPS class and the DPS class is useless? I don't know what kind of game that is, but if there is one it won't last long. I really hope this gets fixed.

[Pleasure_Pirate]

Archers seem to do better DPS.. They just don't have the same survivability as the bow bear. If you're playing the class correctly you shouldn't be taking shots. If you're using break armor, blast shot, and focus on a regular basis the archer is clearly superior to the bear DPS wise. Yes, if you're tanking the bear is superior, but with this class you shouldn't be tanking. Hybrids are a unique and fun part of the game. Instead of 3 classes, we can have 9. Any nerf of hybrids will lose a lot of interest in the game. The point is that I only see the bear as superior when it comes to survivability, and this shouldn't be an issue if you're playing the DPS class correctly.

[PvP]

Archers seem to do better DPS.. They just don't have the same survivability as the bow bear. If you're playing the class correctly you shouldn't be taking shots. If you're using break armor, blast shot, and focus on a regular basis the archer is clearly superior to the bear DPS wise. Yes, if you're tanking the bear is superior, but with this class you shouldn't be tanking. Hybrids are a unique and fun part of the game. Instead of 3 classes, we can have 9. Any nerf of hybrids will lose a lot of interest in the game. The point is that I only see the bear as superior when it comes to survivability, and this shouldn't be an issue if you're playing the DPS class correctly.

The arhcer is the highest DPS class, correct. However, it is the most under-powered class in the game. The bow bear has at least 75% (probably more..) of the DPS the archer has, and it can survive through just about anything. The archer on the other hand has full DPS abilites but just about no survivability. You can't seriously expect it to dodge every shot. I never said hybrids should be exterminated from the game, BUT the core classes need to be improved dramatically. PvP is extremely unbalanced, and a team of bow bears would undoubtedly (IMO) take out a team of archers with a 0 death ratio. How is this, in any way at all fair? Its not. I argue the same thing every time, bow bears tank & do very high DPS, mages heal and can still do some bad damage, but archers are just there. They do DPS but wheres the secondary component? Something needs to be fixed.

[bigwillie34]

Im an archer too, and i have so many points on dexterity (90 or 95), that I already have enough for the level 30ish level items that i have. So now im putting my stats on strength (to do more damage). I have about 40 points on strength, and only 8 points on int, so i just use the meditation spell thing and the healing spell that archers have when I need it.

[JKA]

In pvp you dont just rely on your DPS and attck speed, if you have the highest DPS doesnt mean you will get a big chance to win, in avian(archer) for me is quite powerful enough but agree on its luck of survival, but then again, a good balance of stats and order of skills and every movement you will do inside the arena, every use of your mana is vital. Skills is very important since your skills has the most chance not to miss, weapons attck are just a secondary blast since they miss alot in pvp, yes bows are very reliable on mobs, but players dont have same stat with mobs.
I play with few good players, and i find it so fun, believe me, if pvp will always be like that,gee its a hell of a fun. I play with mage, used int archer, and the fight last for 10mins, which is so cool. Since he balance his stat well and use his skills pretty wise, also the same thing with bowbear vs intbird-intbear vs intbird.
And i do agree hybrids are not an issue in this game, hybrids are just a unique class just like if you do a SUB-CLASS... But in PL's case hybrids been born because full str bear elope with full int mage and int bird is born and so on...

JKA avian level 40
xjkax bear level 40