I think Sorcerers Are Useless in PvE...

[Zeus]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

[Kaziscate]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

[Zeazimeh]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fair to judge a 22 seconds difference :)

[Zeus]

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

I've run with a few different mages, the mage is slower every time. Papalix also has every mage weapon out there...


Here's why:

1. The maps are designed to take out specific mobs first - a rogue's job.
2. The Aegis outputs way too much AOE damage - a sorcerer's job.

There should be a balance where tank is needed but it's not taking over another classes's role. I can run 9 minutes or less in second underhul map with 3 rogues and 1 tank, but any mage will only do higher 9s or 10 mins.

[Zeus]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fare to judge a 22 seconds difference :)

I have played elite underhul, I also hold the records in all of the enhanced maps. Sure, for a casual farming run, sorcerers aren't useless. Then again, tanks were never useless in a casual farming run either. However, the issue is that tanks have overridden a sorcerer's job in PvE...a bit similar to how they output too much damage in PvP as well with the lava sword. They should be there for tanking. If a warrior starts doing the sorcerer's role then what is the point for sorcerer? Also, the weapons these days all stun, so there's no point in having a sorcerer in a map for stuns.

As for the orbs, if they're spawning, it's because the rogues aren't addressing the sorcerers quickly enough. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down the sorcerers before a orb has a chance to spawn. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down any immediate threats. This is not to say the rogues are OP, they're not...they get one hit in the maps so easily.


Take a look at record maps, for anything nordr and up. It's mainly tanks for a reason.

[tomsawer]

I have to agree mage is somewhat useless I have all 3 classes endgame rogue is a little better .
On a side note I'd like to add again ( as many before me have ) I'm really loving the fact that warriors now have a role to play effectively in pve. It's to the point I won't run without one :)



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[Zeus]

I have to agree mage is somewhat useless I have all 3 classes endgame rogue is a little better .
On a side note I'd like to add again ( as many before me have ) I'm really loving the fact that warriors now have a role to play effectively in pve. It's to the point I won't run without one :)



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Yes, this is specifically in PvE. Ignoring the latest buffs/debuffs stuff in PvP, sorcerers are quite powerful there - moreso than rogues. However, in PvE, they currently have no use in any map except crypts. You will be slower than a 3 rogue 1 tank party. If you would like me to prove this, I welcome anyone to post their fastest run with a sorcerer and I will beat it with a 1 tank 3 rogue party.

[eugene9707]

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

Well.... Maybe this would result in mages getting buffed :p

Anyways, I personally feel that a mage is helpful in the new elites with the clock mastery and the stuns (or at least I like to think this way anyways). Since the mobs hits insanely hard, having them stunned improves the survivability of the group, which is what I think the role of mages.

And in my opinion, if its possible to remove the effective number of aoe attacks, it'd help mages a lot (like how Fireball only hit up to 6 enemies etc). Since if I remember correctly, agis proc doesn't have a max number of mobs it can hit? So if mage's attack can hit up to all 20 or however many mobs the warrior can pull, it'd make mages more desirable

[Zeus]

Well.... Maybe this would result in mages getting buffed :p

Anyways, I personally feel that a mage is helpful in the new elites with the clock mastery and the stuns (or at least I like to think this way anyways). Since the mobs hits insanely hard, having them stunned improves the survivability of the group, which is what I think the role of mages.

And in my opinion, if its possible to remove the effective number of aoe attacks, it'd help mages a lot (like how Fireball only hit up to 6 enemies etc). Since if I remember correctly, agis proc doesn't have a max number of mobs it can hit? So if mage's attack can hit up to all 20 or however many mobs the warrior can pull, it'd make mages more desirable


If a tank leads, you don't need to stun any of the mobs. The aggro is focused on the tank, then the rogues come in and stun. By the time the rogues come in, the mobs are at half health anyways because of the aegis.

[Zeazimeh]

I have played elite underhul, I also hold the records in all of the enhanced maps. Sure, for a casual farming run, sorcerers aren't useless. Then again, tanks were never useless in a casual farming run either. However, the issue is that tanks have overridden a sorcerer's job in PvE...a bit similar to how they output too much damage in PvP as well with the lava sword. They should be there for tanking. If a warrior starts doing the sorcerer's role then what is the point for sorcerer? Also, the weapons these days all stun, so there's no point in having a sorcerer in a map for stuns.

As for the orbs, if they're spawning, it's because the rogues aren't addressing the sorcerers quickly enough. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down the sorcerers before a orb has a chance to spawn. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down any immediate threats. This is not to say the rogues are OP, they're not...they get one hit in the maps so easily.


Take a look at record maps, for anything nordr and up. It's mainly tanks for a reason.
The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)

[Zeus]

The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)

I don't want to fight as well, but I'm just letting developers know before it's too late. It may not be that apparent now, but the last thing that I, and others, want is sorcerer being the one left out of parties or left out of records.

[Visiting]

I don't want to fight as well, but I'm just letting developers know before it's too late. It may not be that apparent now, but the last thing that I, and others, want is sorcerer being the one left out of parties or left out of records.

#ZeusCares2016

[Tatman]

You look at this from a timed runs perspective, which is something most people don't care about.

Granted, I stopped running these maps, because it's literally pointless to run. But I'm pretty sure a good mage with a good build is not useless for efficient runs.

[Zeus]

You look at this from a timed runs perspective, which is something most people don't care about.

Granted, I stopped running these maps, because it's literally pointless to run. But I'm pretty sure a good mage with a good build is not useless for efficient runs.

We can test this out if you'd like. Grab a mage, record ankh usage and time to complete map and I'll do the same. Then, I can run with the mage that you used and see how the results end up.

[extrapayah]

in case you're wondering, magma's buff mechanic making any sorcerer in your party reducing the effectiveness of aegis-magma combo (seems like everyone knows it now @_@)

and yes, sorcerer need pve buff, i hope with the application of this global pvp damage reduction, sorcerer will get more damage, and more aoe/increased max target

aegis were decent, when they made aegis proc have to be started by normal attack -> no chain proc possible, but sts returned it back to the how it is first released :P, which is not bad for tanks, and overpowered

[Zeus]

in case you're wondering, magma's buff mechanic making any sorcerer in your party reducing the effectiveness of aegis-magma combo (seems like everyone knows it now @_@)

and yes, sorcerer need pve buff, i hope with the application of this global pvp damage reduction, sorcerer will get more damage, and more aoe/increased max target

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

[Tatman]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

[extrapayah]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

also curious with the result :D, anyway, jugg need its cooldown reduced for pve use :D:D:D, please go push the idea to devs, mr z

[Zeus]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

Ok, sounds good. The only thing is the tank has to be an aegis tank.

[extrapayah]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

anyway, what i was saying is, tanks with aegis needs them (and only them) to burn enemies under magma's buff, to help them proc aegis, but if you have sorcerer in your team, he/she will usually dominate with dot, and ends up making the sorcerer burns all the enemies. the mechanic of magma is, one enemy can only get burned by one player at one time, it's non-stackable between players, making the buff grow more useless in party.

[Zeus]

anyway, what i was saying is, tanks with aegis needs them (and only them) to burn enemies under magma's buff, to help them proc aegis, but if you have sorcerer in your team, he/she will usually dominate with dot, and ends up making the sorcerer burns all the enemies. the mechanic of magma is, one enemy can only get burned by one player at one time, it's non-stackable between players, making the buff grow more useless in party.

That's interesting, didn't know that.

[Ravager]

It's the beginning of the season and the beginning release of level 61 based elites. These are the times when tanks are wanted the most and this always happens beginning of elite releases. By end of season it'll be 4 rogues or blends of classes. Who knows? Maybe the 56 end of season gear will be so good that mages will be able to use 4 attack skills for timed runs and that would probably make the difference.

[Deathlyreaper]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fair to judge a 22 seconds difference :)

The dot can be erased by Gale mastery

[Zeazimeh]

The dot can be erased by Gale mastery
Yes.. But its still a sorcerer thing.. :)

[eugene9707]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

I'll second this.... always wondered why there is a max target amount for aoe skills.......

[Fyrce]

He is just saying if you can kill more quickly, you do not need cc as much. And his testing confirms this. Warrior w/ rogue kill faster w/ a minimum of death vs including a mage. I do think most non-rec parties can still use a mage, so I am not sure this will be a huge problem. It all comes down to the player base.

i would love to see more effective mage AoEs.

[Niixed]

Have to agree with what Zeus is saying here. Timed runs are a good way to measure the overall PvE balance between the classes, similar to a stress-test on a product. I'm sorry to say that warriors are currently too overpowered with the combination of the Aegis and the Dragon Sword.

Since weapons are constantly changing (aka a variable), game balance should not be tied to weapons. Game balance should be more dependent on player decisions. Using weapons to balance the game is far too developer-dependent. We are forced to rely on the developer for balance instead of finding it on our own or working to make it so. Imagine a world where we didn't have to come charging to the forums for a nerf/buff every time a weapon is released. After a few years of going through this process myself, it really does become tiresome.

I think what's missing most in weapon and gear design in Arcane Legends is this principle: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Often weapons for one class take away from another class, such as the case of the Aegis, because they too-closely mimic the skills of that class. Remember the Elon Bulwark could curse better than a sorcerer? But, then again, how are developers supposed to imagine every single possible outcome of every piece of gear they release? They can't, nobody can without a massive, inefficient expenditure of resources.

I believe one (radical?) solution to the balance problem is to make class-versions of every skill available to every other class, but it would cost more skill points than a regular skill. For example, sorcerers could put skill points into a sorcerer version of aimed shot. Rogues could use a rogue-ized version of skyward smash. Warriors could use the a tanky version of frost bolt. This would give players significantly more build possibilities and would make game balance more player-dependent. If STS releases a weapon for one class that is too op, players would have access to more skills to possibly compensate for it.

Regardless, I think the current system is just too constrained for players to be able to compensate for big changes. That is one a big reason why we rush to the forums, spending our valuable game time crying about this or that.

[tomsawer]

Imo as stated by Zeus. before this season gets to far along ,devs need to find away for Each class to be needed, I for one would like to beable to play each class providing a role in a party. As of now in (pve) I only Play rogue and warrior simply because ( my mage isn't effective in elites) .
I made a comment sometime back when devs were asking what changes we as players would like to see change, my comment was .simple ," make each class desirable to play and a role so a minimum of 1 of each class is needed in a party to successfully complete elites"


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[aneshsinghblu]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

in the past seasons I've not seen any warriors on the leader board. . . let them shine for a bit. . or even this whole season.
a war helped you to get onto the new elite lb. . yet you ask for them to be nerfed(aegis nerf)
"efficient" run to me does not mean the fastest run. . but the run I die the least

[Zeus]

in the past seasons I've not seen any warriors on the leader board. . . let them shine for a bit. . or even this whole season.
a war helped you to get onto the new elite lb. . yet you ask for them to be nerfed(aegis nerf)
"efficient" run to me does not mean the fastest run. . but the run I die the least

I'm not asking for warrior nerf, I love the fact that they can run timed runs now, however, I do think that sorcerers shouldn't be excluded from timed runs either. The most efficient run would also be the fastest run for you then: take a look at pure LB maps. It's 2 tanks, 1 rogue or 2 tanks, 2 rogue.

[xRyuzanki]

I hope stg will buff Mages aoe abilities and armor!

[Iove]

Zeus correct, im mage and i check it, mage bad and paper, i know got shield, but it end, remember it.

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[Kriticality]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/2f9c78b9de99c8ff811c426b107e5270.jpg


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[Deathlyreaper]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/2f9c78b9de99c8ff811c426b107e5270.jpg


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I agree with you and dang bro is your stats with elixir or without? That is some pretty op stats would u mind if I asked what your equipments are? And possible the type of jewel u use?

[Deathlyreaper]

Yes I agree do not put limitations on number of target that we can hit

[Zeus]

I'm sorry but no class should be able to output more damage to multiple targets than a Mage. If I don't have the highest, I'm certainly up there for pure damage. Even with 10/10 mastery wth light it doesn't compare to rogue at the boss. I switch between staves and then ofc to gun at boss. With 1306 PURE DAMAGE and almost 1500 damage with elixir and supposed to be aoe class no 300k weapon and magma should put out more damage than me. Look at this photo of this new staff. CLEAN. Look at my dps. I'm pushing 2k dps.

I actually very much enjoy the support role of Mage in a clash and think I'm pretty good at it. But if I choose to noble exquisite my gear to insane stat values, I expect it to be for a purpose. At 1300 + pure damage without even the best damage gear, no class through any combination whatsoever should be putting out more aoe damage than Mage.

I say this all the time. Only thing Mage best at is mana. It's a joke. This testing in pvp is cool with all the 50% nerf. Mage and shield in particular are amazing. But these defensive skills will not be used in timed runs. They cannot be. So Idc about shield absorption mastery and other things. This is why I strive to balance my Mage. Keep over 200 str for shield in pvp and ALSO maximize my damage for timed runs. Maybe some people have more damage but not many. Crowd control isn't good enough role. You buff taunt on tank and they have aegis and they don't die easily. Is clock better? Even with 1500 damage with elixir than a aegis magma combo? Emphatically the answer is no.

So while it may feel cool to some mages that feel useful bc they can drop a clock and throw a fb, just know that your job is easily covered by other classes. They can do it better.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/2f9c78b9de99c8ff811c426b107e5270.jpg


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Agreed, sorcerers may be quite powerful in PvP but in PvE right now, tanks do the job better. Now please note, I am not asking for a tank nerf...I would just like sorcerers to be able to join in on the fun of timed runs.

[Kriticality]

I agree with you and dang bro is your stats with elixir or without? That is some pretty op stats would u mind if I asked what your equipments are? And possible the type of jewel u use?

I use the fame... The glory... Hahahaha


Yes I'll talk to you about it in pm. My staff build more crit 6200 health but less damage. Gun for pure damage atm. At 40% crit being around 1 in every 2.5 attacks and ~30% crit being around 1 in every 3 attack a crit, the damage seems to help without much crit loss for dot. Just pm me if I can help. I'm happy to if I can. But let's not back and forth in the thread. :)

[Kaziscate]

I've run with a few different mages, the mage is slower every time. Papalix also has every mage weapon out there...


Here's why:

1. The maps are designed to take out specific mobs first - a rogue's job.
2. The Aegis outputs way too much AOE damage - a sorcerer's job.

There should be a balance where tank is needed but it's not taking over another classes's role. I can run 9 minutes or less in second underhul map with 3 rogues and 1 tank, but any mage will only do higher 9s or 10 mins.


I feel like it's too focused on the aegis. What if the tank didn't have an aegis? Mages can exceed tanks without aegis in AoEing, but I do have to agree with it being unnecessary to have a mob cap for mage skills. Also if this isn't massive damage,then idk what is.

[Tatman]

You keep bringing this timed runs logic. This game isn't timed runs. 90% of endgamers - and that's a conservative number - don't even care about timed runs. Do that experiment I suggested. Find a couple random, average geared people, and run with them. On top of everything else, you will make them happy. Woo I ran with Zeus yay yah woohoo. :)

[Kharjojo]

Paper isn't fine anymore :D
Joking apart, don't want to quote Papa's post cause it hurts a lot.
We're struggling to jewel the best we can our gear, do the math to be the most effective we can in pve, as mages should be, but the sad truth is we're still useful but not so much, even with op stats.
This remind me the days of the planar tombs..when did the mages shines ? During the freeze bolt glitch :/

[Fredystern]

We mage could run nearly all elite with 4mage in party, of course the mage need to know when and where to use clock, and shield, well maybe it will slower but we have time to chat cause the clock root the enemies except for boss '-' so dont take care of us easily or you will regret it someday

[extrapayah]

with equal gear, damage from an non-critical charged aimed shot is around 3x of charged fireball damage (pardon my nab gears), and aimed shot has half of the cooldown of fireball, meaning when fighting a single enemy, aimed shot has 6x more effective dps than a fireball, only when continuously facing 6 mobs fireball has equal effective dps to aimed shot.

anyway, with dragon staff, you will want to use the staff to proc, especially when fighting boss.

damage output of tank has been more than mages since last season, it makes me wonder how vaas dominated timed lb last season, i guess a mage successfully outsmarted all tanks last season :P

[Zeus]

You keep bringing this timed runs logic. This game isn't timed runs. 90% of endgamers - and that's a conservative number - don't even care about timed runs. Do that experiment I suggested. Find a couple random, average geared people, and run with them. On top of everything else, you will make them happy. Woo I ran with Zeus yay yah woohoo. :)

It isn't timed run, but look at it like this: if there's a 22 second difference in timed runs, then what's the real world time difference of a Mage versus 1 tank 3 rogues?

[Oezheasate]

with equal gear, damage from an non-critical charged aimed shot is around 3x of charged fireball damage (pardon my nab gears), and aimed shot has half of the cooldown of fireball, meaning when fighting a single enemy, aimed shot has 6x more effective dps than a fireball, only when continuously facing 6 mobs fireball has equal effective dps to aimed shot.

anyway, with dragon staff, you will want to use the staff to proc, especially when fighting boss.

damage output of tank has been more than mages since last season, it makes me wonder how vaas dominated timed lb last season, i guess a mage successfully outsmarted all tanks last season :P

Vaas actually was very good at pulling together the mobs, incredibly precise clock stun and root work and knew how to make the most out of staff at boss, we did 3:03 in t2 while he still missed a lot jewel wise, he was running around with 4.7k health.

[Tatman]

It isn't timed run, but look at it like this: if there's a 22 second difference in timed runs, then what's the real world time difference of a Mage versus 1 tank 3 rogues?
I don't know, that's why I suggested the real world experiment. ;) And honestly, most people (me included) don't care about 22 seconds slower as long as it's safer and more efficient.

[Untung]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class!

Agree with this

[xRyuzanki]

It's the beginning of the season and the beginning release of level 61 based elites. These are the times when tanks are wanted the most and this always happens beginning of elite releases. By end of season it'll be 4 rogues or blends of classes. Who knows? Maybe the 56 end of season gear will be so good that mages will be able to use 4 attack skills for timed runs and that would probably make the difference.

I use 4 attack skills cause you know if a player really want a fast run in elite/normal Maps they can do that since POTS are not limited to use.

[extrapayah]

I agree on it warr hitting so much aoe with aegis, almost doubling a mage, mage kinda losing its pt supportive aspects on elites as well as dmg, all you need for this new maps 3 rogue, 1 warr and proc your dagger for stun aoe, sns pools GG

I do not agree on kill order, this doesnt apply on reasoanble economic farming, unless you are willing to make ankhfest, all you do in this map proc stun all the mobs consistently until they die from aoe, sns banish pool dmg etc. Then you clear the mages. they only make 1 ball each per mage 1 green 1 red it doesnt heal all mobs like in rengol just focusing to 1. This applies if you wanna run economicly not timed challenge. Personally i dont find feasable to spend 20 ankh per map for farming crappy weapons.

Sorry to say warriors but in this pve perspective especially on underhul maps warr needs to do less dmg more tanking with better taunts. I have never seen an mmo that a tank does the most damage of all ruling pvp pve both. Lol

interesting theory on kill order :D, but if team focusing attacks on ranged enemies (orc healer and green gnomes) enemies will naturally grouped together, making it easy for us to proc dagger/bites, and yeah more effective tanking, probably a reduced juggernaut cooldown, and immunity to dot (immunity to dot will indirectly nerf second wind upgrade though), and increased base armor, strong enough to differentiate tank and non-tank, to survive underhul instant kill that might happen if rogues failed to proc, these defensive buffs are needed, especially if the recent pvp global nerfs are going to be implemented

[Midievalmodel]

I agree on it warr hitting so much aoe with aegis, almost doubling a mage, mage kinda losing its pt supportive aspects on elites as well as dmg, all you need for this new maps 3 rogue, 1 warr and proc your dagger for stun aoe, sns pools GG

I do not agree on kill order, this doesnt apply on reasoanble economic farming, unless you are willing to make ankhfest, all you do in this map proc stun all the mobs consistently until they die from aoe, sns banish pool dmg etc. Then you clear the mages. they only make 1 ball each per mage 1 green 1 red it doesnt heal all mobs like in rengol just focusing to 1. This applies if you wanna run economicly not timed challenge. Personally i dont find feasable to spend 20 ankh per map for farming crappy weapons.

Sorry to say warriors but in this pve perspective especially on underhul maps warr needs to do less dmg more tanking with better taunts. I have never seen an mmo that a tank does the most damage of all ruling pvp pve both. Lol

This is all I ask of the stg developers is to please fix the core of warrior skills and effectiveness. You have tried to fix warriors by giving us OP weapons like aegis and arcane sword but that did not fix the broken mechanics of the warrior. The only problem it solved temporarily was making warriors useful again in PVE (I stress the word temporary) but it also caused imbalance in PVE making warriors put out more aoe damage than mages. So once aegis and arcane sword becomes outdated what happens to warriors? We become ignored in PVE again like the pre-aegis days? Because from what I've seen is stg has already started the weapon nerfing process to warriors. If you don't believe me look at warrior new mythic maul weapons, they do signficantly less skill damage than the old 46 mythic glintstone maul weapon (I call this purposeful regression of weapon/items). STG if this is your way of nerfing us because u gave use such op weapons like aegis and arcane sword, well everything is gonna crumble for the warriors once aegis and arcane sword becomes obsolete.

[aneshsinghblu]

I'm not asking for warrior nerf, I love the fact that they can run timed runs now, however, I do think that sorcerers shouldn't be excluded from timed runs either. The most efficient run would also be the fastest run for you then: take a look at pure LB maps. It's 2 tanks, 1 rogue or 2 tanks, 2 rogue.

" The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not."

sounded like you were not happy with the aegis and wanted a nerf

[extrapayah]

This is all I ask of the stg developers is to please fix the core of warrior skills and effectiveness. You have tried to fix warriors by giving us OP weapons like aegis and arcane sword but that did not fix the broken mechanics of the warrior. The only problem it solved temporarily was making warriors useful again in PVE (I stress the word temporary) but it also caused imbalance in PVE making warriors put out more aoe damage than mages. So once aegis and arcane sword becomes outdated what happens to warriors? We become ignored in PVE again like the pre-aegis days? Because from what I've seen is stg has already started the weapon nerfing process to warriors. If you don't believe me look at warrior new mythic maul weapons, they do signficantly less skill damage than the old 46 mythic glintstone maul weapon (I call this purposeful regression of weapon/items). STG if this is your way of nerfing us because u gave use such op weapons like aegis and arcane sword, well everything is gonna crumble for the warriors once aegis and arcane sword becomes obsolete.

couldn't agree more...

[Safiras]

" The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not."

sounded like you were not happy with the aegis and wanted a nerf

I don't believe that was his intention, I do believe that as a result of the design of the Elites and the proc of the Aegis, the sorceror's role in a PvE party has become somewhat diminished (not redundant, because not many warriors know how to fully utilize the potential of the Aegis or are still using exclusively the arcane sword in PvE). That said, the point remains that it is a WEAPON PROC that has caused the imbalance, rather than the characteristic of the class per se (see also the arcane sword and the impact of itc proc in PvP). This was very nicely pointed out by Midievalmodel in his post. I guess Aegis will persist for a while because of the lack of a better alternative currently. But perhaps we will see better prospects for sorcerors in future updates, with new gear and weapons.

[Bmwmsix]

Guys guys please its not aegis nor the warrior...he is fine right now aswell rogues.

While the mage is OK for most, sts could indeed remove mobcap from aoe skills and increase crit on gear...since lvl 41 cap the crit rate on gear was reduced enormously....now is the time to show some love towards those feetless hectic moving smurfs.

[Motherless_Child]

The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)


Warriors and rogues always gets buffs/debuffs because no one ever mentions anything about mages, I too have noticed this......... I'm glad the OP did this because STS needs to begin putting some attention into the mage class.... Seems like warriors and rogues are excelling and mages are becoming like, "whatever".... There ARE some good mages out there but, they are harder to bump into these days (before, it was harder to bump into good warriors) when running maps whereas, the majority of DECENT runs these days always seem to be highlighted by good rogues and warriors (when i'm running maps)... NOTE: I'm speaking about the time period that spans back the the RECENT string of adjustments/buffs/nerfs to the game and classes and it's mainly because the adjustments and buffs are all mainly being put into the rogue and warrior class....

I'm gonna need to ponder on this some more before deeply elaborating on this topic but, it's time the mages get some love, too..............

Oh, and timed runs.... I've tried to do it a couple times but, it seems the mage's inability to dominantly control mobs like warriors and the mage's inability to match the insane CRIT from rogue (rogues have HIGh damage these days, insane crit Procs (with aimed shot + deadly focus upgrade you can get up to an additional +%30crit)(and this doesn't even count any additional crit AA boosts) makes the feat quite challenging (I mean, i've seen some SOLO timed leaders, and none of those players are mages)...... I know some people don't care about timed runs but, it IS something that can keep you busy in-between and can allow players to challenge your time and you challenge thiers. Running through non timed runs faster would even be beneficial, for farming and elixir (luck) purposes... The quicker you get in and out, the more runs you can do, and you also preserve elixir time better rather than let it burn.......

[Kriticality]

Guys guys please its not aegis nor the warrior...he is fine right now aswell rogues.

While the mage is OK for most, sts could indeed remove mobcap from aoe skills and increase crit on gear...since lvl 41 cap the crit rate on gear was reduced enormously....now is the time to show some love towards those feetless hectic moving smurfs.

The crit doesn't matter that much. Most geared mages will crit between 1/2 and 1/3 of the time and that's per tick of dot. That's the difference between 50% crit and 33% crit. It is aegis. As I stated in my post no combination of gear for the lowest damage class should be able to out put anywhere close to me at 1500 damage.

Vaas maybe good but this has no bearing on this thread. I had records in half the maps I attempted last season and ALL those times on nordr are ~25 seconds faster than record last season. They are running ~30% faster without a Mage. Or should I say with a tank.

Mages need something that they are best at. Not mana. What is the point of me running around with 1500 damage? My pm all day filled with people asking about damage. I tell them don't worry. It's for show. It's useless. Just buy magma and aegis and spend 300k on tank gear and can easily out put more damage.

Increase the dot ticks and adjust the formula in PVE ONLY. Increase the int factor in the formula. Mages should be melting mob groups significantly faster than anyone else can over time. I believe it should be as significant as the single target damage between rogue and mage. Even though I have 1500 damage and they slaying boss in fraction of the time that a Mage group can. Well Mage should have the same for mobs. Then let tank keep their broken set and weapons that they've been able to rely on in different areas of the game for months now.

[Motherless_Child]

The crit doesn't matter that much. Most geared mages will crit between 1/2 and 1/3 of the time and that's per tick of dot. That's the difference between 50% crit and 33% crit. It is aegis. As I stated in my post no combination of gear for the lowest damage class should be able to out put anywhere close to me at 1500 damage.

Vaas maybe good but this has no bearing on this thread. I had records in half the maps I attempted last season and ALL those times on nordr are ~25 seconds faster than record last season. They are running ~30% faster without a Mage. Or should I say with a tank.

Mages need something that they are best at. Not mana. What is the point of me running around with 1500 damage? My pm all day filled with people asking about damage. I tell them don't worry. It's for show. It's useless. Just buy magma and aegis and spend 300k on tank gear and can easily out put more damage.

Increase the dot ticks and adjust the formula in PVE ONLY. Increase the int factor in the formula. Mages should be melting mob groups significantly faster than anyone else can over time. I believe it should be as significant as the single target damage between rogue and mage. Even though I have 1500 damage and they slaying boss in fraction of the time that a Mage group can. Well Mage should have the same for mobs. Then let tank keep their broken set and weapons that they've been able to rely on in different areas of the game for months now.

Yeah.... Funny thing is, the new sets (with all pieces equipped) gives mages +700 mana bonus (let rogues and warriors get that, substitute it for something else when it comes to mages), which is utterly useless for endgame mages.... I also do not like the fireball MASTERY, it says that it reduces MANA cost for mage, ridiculous (that's why I did not even think about getting it).... I'd rather see the DISTANCE for the fireball increased (would be especially helpful against those darn underhaul beetles).....

[Zeus]

Thats the most objective opinion i have ever seen from warrior.

and yes unless there will be radical changes on core skills it may go back to old times. A tank should hold aggro constantly, at boss also. and a geared one shouldnt die on mobs or boss and able to protect pt. just like other mmo's.

Right now- im not joking- 4 rogue can run entire elite map 1 without using pot. All they have to do is charge dagger and spam it. All the way to boss, even boss gets stun from proc. Time wise is it fastest? No but economic from proc. I want this gone as rogue, but in return i want a tank that able to protect pt and we dont have ankhfest.

about 51 weapons yes its still lame imo. For rogue legendary 56 one gives 40 more damage at least comparing to 51 mythic. And proc is seriously hurting than giving advantage. You simply cant exchange dagger proc to that flame forged. same goes for warrior weapon.


You cannot do 4 rogues for new elites...

[Kriticality]

Hey devs if you listening and can see this. WE DONT NEED MANA!! Haha

8550!!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160502/51f620d0422eed0633ad4c22de16d1ed.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

You can. pulling guy is gonna die tho especially on beetles. but for sure its better to run with 1 warr at least.
My point there with proc, doesnt matter which mob what mob how many mob they just die without doing damage

I mean if you ankh it out it's not very efficient, is it? So, defeats the point of 4 rogues. It's not better so there's no point.

[xRyuzanki]

You can. pulling guy is gonna die tho especially on beetles. but for sure its better to run with 1 warr at least.
My point there with proc, doesnt matter which mob what mob how many mob they just die without doing damage

It's hard and It will take a lot of your ankhs and time since even though nekro's AA can resist stun , you will take a lot of damage when you pull them and also it is not easy to proc the arcane blades since it only indicates 'chance to proc', also considering the immunity of monsters in elite .For a not so well geared player here , it's hard to run in solo elite maps . Im only asking stg to make Mages skills / weapons more aoe than any class since it's skills are destined for mobbing

[Zeus]

If you pull small you dont die. there is that, dude even with 1 war 3 rogue its same deal you just charge dagger and proc 7/24 GG. no need for mage.

You will die at the beetles.

[Safiras]

if you stun first beetles, the others gets stun also as soon as they spawn without charging at you. i dont understand this argument , alright lets say you have 1 warr 3 rogue you dont need to use single pot with rogue also again same deal. what do you want me to tell?

Would like to see you make a video of 4 rogues running the map without using a lot of ankhs just to make it to the end. Dying over and over from beetle charges also doesn't count. All in all it is POSSIBLE to run it like you said but it would be incredibly inefficient, would probably take a huge amount of time and effort and honestly as a rogue who likes not only speed but security on her runs, I would not run in a full rogue party and would like a tank and a mage in party (check the pure time in Elite Southern Gates, my party currently holds the record).

[tomsawer]

I can see this topic Zeus started starting to head the wrong way ,it's about a mage not being needed or wanted ( as much ) in new elites . Imo it's not about needing warriors or rogue's ,what Zeus is pointing is hey! S.t.s. do something about the mage before it's to late . Let's make all classes needed wanted and have a role to play .
Hope I'm not stepping on toes .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Binlaggin]

I tested this last season when the weapon came out. My tank can clear the first set of t2 mobs about 10 seconds faster than my mage.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)

[Oezheasate]

Yes aegis proc+magma kills mobs faster than a sorcerer, but a mage has two roles, killing crowds fast and crowd control, the crowd control is currently being done mostly by the arcane dagger, rogues proc it to be able to kill and pick off mobs/target so its a two way street.

Both tanks and rogues are taking over from mages, dmg to crowd, tanks, and crowd control, rogues.

Before you nerf the aegis do consider what midieval said, our weapon is op but the tank and its skills are broken, therefore not even 1% of the tanks currently know and have the means to use the full power of aegis+magma because, either they dont know about it or they dont have the means to use aegis+magma combo.
Should the aegis be nerfed we will go back to square one and have no roles in elites except for the new ones to serve as a slightly dmg dealing meat shield, slightly=close to 0.
Rogues skill system is not flawed like the tanks skill system is so they wouldnt suffer much if the arcane daggers should be nerfed, although i dont have a clue if those should be nerfed considering the armor nerf they've undegone lately.

[eugene9707]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)

I personally feel bigger pull to be more fun (as long as we are capable of surviving it). I find the normal map pretty fun to run as a mage.

Since bigger pull is in sts's vision, wouldn't it be beneficial for remove the cap for mobs effected by aoe damage? Or else what's the point of crowd control when only 6 out of 15 mobs were effected? (just an example)

[Befs]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)

I feel what I, and lots of the community want is not a nerf of magma or aegis, but a buff on sorc's ability to CC and kill groups.

Personally my idea buff would be increased critical hit % and no limit of mobs affected by skills.

[Deathlyreaper]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)


We do not want nerf from war Aieges but a buff on sorcerer crowd control. What we would like is to remove the limitations on how many enemies we can hit like from fireball and Gale and such staff possibly. Also we need to crit more often so that would help

[Kriticality]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)

I don't care about aegis and magma. I'm saying that if I have TWICE as much damage as a tank and my specialty is aoe not just cc that the gap between the aoe specialist and other classes should be of similar size as the gap between single target specialist and the other classes. If four rogues can melt the boss in x time and 4 mages can melt the boss in y time, the power difference should be proportional to mages melting mobs in x time and rogues and or tanks in y time. I'm not built for just cc. My damage is off the charts. NO WARRIOR COMBO, the "weakest" damage class should even be close to what a Mage with incredibly high damage statistics can output to mobs. What's the point of me having 1500 damage and be aoe and a tank having 800 damage (almost half) but put out anywhere close to similar damage? Makes no sense. Nobody using heal and shield in competitive runs as a Mage. Mages should be better at aoe than other classes in a similar way that rogues are better at single targets.

Imagine if tank have new combo of pet and weapon and were wiping arena with tanks. Everyone would lose their minds. That's what's happening here. With tanks in party, they are completing maps 30% faster than last seasons records on maps that do not get that much faster from season to season. This is a clear sign that something is broken.

If Mage have clock and tanks have jugg with increased taunt and a weapon that does what clock does with no cool down, what's the point. Stop making mages the best at mana. We don't need it. We don't want it. I'm not trying to be the first Mage to 10k mana lol. It's useless.

I would suggest thinking about what Mage is supposed to do better than other classes. Then make them do it in a proportional way as I described above. Tank can survive WAY better than other classes. Rogue can kill one target WAY better than other classes. Mage can do what WAY better than other classes? I wonder...

[tomsawer]

I'm going to keep this short and just add to what has already been said . Me personally need to see a mage do what a mage Is suppose to do AOE.damage were not ( I'm not) in a party to provide mana . Imo add one more class that takes care of that .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Hey Everyone,

Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.

To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:

- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)

Developers don't need to nerf anything, they just need to remove target limitation from sorcerer AOE skills and maybe put a small target limitation on Aegis. By small, I mean only being able to take 7-8 mobs at once. It will keep their damage up without making it that they're overdoing the sorcerer class.

This will also be beneficial so sorcerers do not get buffed any more in PvP (a maxed sorcerer very scary compared to a maxed rogue).

[Niixed]

I'm glad I'm not in your position devs. No matter what you do it seems as though you're going to sorely disappoint a whole lot of people. Is there a solution where everyone will be happy and game integrity won't be compromised?

[Kriticality]

Perhaps a solution is add a multiplier to Mage aoe skills that comes into effect the more mobs are being hit. So it won't effect boss for example. It's only one. But damage increases at 2 mob. More at 3 mob etc etc. only for pve ofc. Or else I'll be clocking all 5 in clash. No more light. Just fb and clock Hahahaha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Perhaps a solution is add a multiplier to Mage aoe skills that comes into effect the more mobs are being hit. So it won't effect boss for example. It's only one. But damage increases at 2 mob. More at 3 mob etc etc. only for pve ofc. Or else I'll be clocking all 5 in clash. No more light. Just fb and clock Hahahaha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would make them even more OP in a clash based scenario. Unless the multiplier only starts counting after more than 5 mobs.

[Kriticality]

That would make them even more OP in a clash based scenario. Unless the multiplier only starts counting after more than 5 mobs.

You ain't no read. I said pve only

[Zeus]

You ain't no read. I said pve only

Ah yes, PvE only then yes. Sorry, my mind only see yellow right now after seeing your set.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.

I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.

Carry on the discussion :).

[mistery]

Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.

I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.

Carry on the discussion :).

Yes dont nerf aegis.It's the best cheap weapon warriors have for pve.
Instead,a skill buff for mages would help.Like for frostbolt,a 25% chance to freeze up to 5 enemies or for clock, a 25% chance that every 2 seconds for the duration of the skill, up to 8 enemies will be pulled from the outside in the range of the clock and stunned for 0.5 seconds or idk..

[Kriticality]

Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.

I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.

Carry on the discussion :).

Yes pls figure it out. Bc records are being set. So the solution must OVER compensate for this. Am I wrong in expecting if I have the highest damage in the game or very close that I should actually do high damage? Or at least higher than the "lowest damage class?" I hope one day y'all give mages a weapon to take rogues role. Even if just for An April fools joke. I don't feel like being duped again so I will hold off on buying items or popping crates until I'm clear what is possible for a truly maxed Mage. If tank need to spend 3m gold to do what a 150m Mage can in pvp AND pve and the plan is to keep it this way then I'm not sure what to say. Cut the defensive buffs. If we aoe than make us aoe. If we the best at mana than just say it and let us mages move on. I'm not concerned with being able to solo elites with small pulls and dropping clock for a 30 minute run just to say I can. I'm concerned with class efficiency for Mage and everyone else should be too. There is a reason when buffs and nerfs are discussed here about daggers and swords and pvp imbalance that nobody complains about staff or Mage. It's bc we've been turned into a distant afterthought. Not once has anyone even thought "oh my, we should probably nerf the arcane staff." Why? Because it's completely laughable compared to the other weapons. Mage set? Completely 100% useless. Rogue is bad too but there are uses.

I'm tired of not getting clear answers. We are owed this. WHAT ARE MAGES SUPPOSED TO BE BEST AT? What is the intended role for this class? And then ask yourselves does that answer make mixed party runs AND pvp more efficient? More effective? Faster? Nobody needs mana in pve. Remove pots for elites then. All will for sure need Mage and prob two.

Don't nerf aegis. Make it so if I'm aoe class and have TWICE the damage as a tank class that I should at least, like at bare minimum do twice as much damage to mobs. So tank can aegis magna all they want and pale in comparison to Mage. Same way that both tank and mage pale in comparison to rogue in arena or single target.

[extrapayah]

aegis explosion can only target 5 now... i'm sure it could target more when it was first released though.

even without aegis, sorcerer' damage potential has been low already, since idk when. even by looking at only aimed shot vs fireball comparison, fireball can deals egual total damage output to aimed shot only when facing 6 mobs, 6 is charged fireball maximum target, meaning that there is no way that sorcerer can outperform rogue's damage output without special proc/specific weapon even when facing mobs. and then, not to mention, there are 2 other rogue skills which has 2s cooldown.

i remember that clock/timeshift used to be sorcerer's #1 skill because it had no max target, and didn't gain aggro, but that was also the time when people got disconnected every time a sorcerer drop a charged clock in planar tombs.

but anyway, even if increasing max target is not a option, sorcerers simply needs buff on their base stat/skill :P

[will0]

why limit sorcerer max target in skill and auto attack ... they are AOE class.. even the lightning AOE doesnt happens often it is good in PVE if it really AOE at charge which helps to clear maps alot

[Tatman]

Imagine if tank have new combo of pet and weapon and were wiping arena with tanks. Everyone would lose their minds. That's what's happening here. With tanks in party, they are completing maps 30% faster than last seasons records on maps that do not get that much faster from season to season. This is a clear sign that something is broken.
Arena records are already 15-20 seconds better without any tanks, aegis, Magma and whatnot. These are absurd times compared to last season, absolutely impossible. Party setup and gear is practically the same, actually even the players are the same. How do you explain this?

[Kriticality]

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[diimitrii]

Sorcerers never been efficient in timed runs, which is a shame because i really want to get a timed run on my mage and don't want to make my rouge more OP than my mage just to make the lb. Just doesnt seem fair

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T560 met Tapatalk

[Tatman]

Did you saw video of scripting in YouTube? There is your answer
You should probably direct this to the video's maker, who is all over the current Arena lb with times that were impossible last year. Does he script too? ;)

Anyway, my point is that it's not the aegis/Magma combo leading to faster times than last season.

[Niixed]

Aegis isn't the only weapon that supercedes mage abilities and steals our thunder. The Rogue dragon daggers' dragon bite proc takes out elite mobs faster than mages have ever been able to... ever. On top of that I suspect the Dragon Sword proc does more damage than clock and fireball DoT combined. Let's not forget the elon bulwark uber curse which is better than mage curse and costs only a weapon charge.

Whenever Warriors and Rogues are OP because of gear it almost always takes away from sorcerers. The Dragon Hunter staff proc is comparatively weak and Consecrate doesn't really make up for that weakness. I'm not asking for a buff here, just making a point.

[Tatman]

You're talking about arena, whereas OP is talking about maps which have mobs in them. Two very different fields. The reason arena runs are faster is level increase. Level increase means higher damage output from rogues(who are after all the class which specialises in single target damage).

(Factor in Nox and SSS and rogues have more damage than mages in a group of mobs as of this season.)
Wrong. He is talking about Nordr maps, which are the only ones with consistently and significantly faster records right now (20-25 seconds faster). Want to guess what's the common denominator between Arena and Nordr? Both are not scaled.

Whereas Shuyal and up are all scaled to lvl 61 or whatever it is right now. My guess is that's why there isn't a huge and consistent difference between last season's records and current ones in those maps.

You can check last season's lb and see for yourself.

[Tatman]

No, I don't script.
I didn't mean that, but we already cleared this up.

Anyway, I'm done posting in this thread. I'll take my talents to Vroom's one.

[Zeus]

I didn't mean that, but we already cleared this up.

Anyway, I'm done posting in this thread. I'll take my talents to Vroom's one.

Yes, we did. I forgot to remove this post, haha. Lemme remove now!