PvP Balance Adjustments and PvP Tiers

[Cinco]

Thanks for your support through these last few weeks' PvP balance changes! More changes are coming soon...

Today we are adding new matchmaking features. These changes will allow us to address balance issues with a lot more accuracy. Specifically: we have changed the way that PvP matches are made. Instead of admitting players to an arena based on their relative level (within 3 levels of a character already in the map), we are now creating five-level Tiers. Player levels 1 - 5 are Tier 1. Player levels 6 - 10 are Tier 2. These tiers continue to the level cap, with the last tier (currently) spanning levels 51-56. Each PvP Tier gets its own damage and healing adjustment values based on our analysis and your feedback.

Our next update, planned for later today, will have these five-level Tier changes. Currently the level ranges are far too broad (all of them spanning 10 levels). The update will fix this :-)

While this tier system is a much better platform to support our continued efforts for PvP balance, it is a significantly different approach to matchmaking and could have unintended negative consequences. Please feedback on the issues! We are now able to target specific character levels within each tier for further adjustments.


Looking forward to your feedback (and to some great battles this weekend!!)

- Cinco

[Visiting]

Twinks are gonna love this! :D Ty Cinco

[Cinco]

Please tell me how 13 can defeat 18? 5 tiers is really too much.

To clarify: I'm not talking about an arbitrary 5 levels between you and another; we now use fixed level bands. This means that 13 would never see an 18. All of the 13's would be grouped with players within the range of 11 to 15. Likewise, 15's would be grouped with other 11 to 15's, just like other 11's. And a level 18 player would be grouped with levels 16 to 20. It's quite different than the previous system that used relative levels.

[Cinco]

But 15 can be grouped with 13 and 17 too? Or 15 can be grouped with 19 right?

No. A player at 15 would be grouped with a 13 but not with a 17.
A 15 would not be grouped with a 19; that's a higher Tier.

[Cinco]

So 15 won't meet anymore higher lvl than 16 right ?

Yes! That is how it will be after today's update. Right now, players are still able to join matches that are 10 levels higher or lower (and that'll be fixed).

[Zeus]

This seems really cool. No more: you're a higher level nonsense from twinks, everybody will just go to the highest level for that tier.

[Binlaggin]

If everyone is forced to level to the top of the tiers, are there enough weapons/gear available to fulfill the new demand?

[Binlaggin]

No one is forced.

May the force be with you

[Upperbound]

Ok what does it means for me, i am 16 level warrior with nearly the best gear i could found for my level:
- if i stay at 16 i will fight with 16-20, i have chance to win again 16 and 17 but 18-20 will wreck me, so i have two options here to be competetive:
1. I must go to level 20, top of my tier: not so good idea, because i need to find full set of new gear for level 20, rogues are stronger on higher twink levels because of more crit.
2. I can delevel to 15: i will be on top of 11-15 tier, i need only armor and weapon change because 16 wars use 15 amu/ring ( winter/tarlok ), so this option is really better for me (if sts will be so kind and delevel me for sure :)

With both 1 and 2 options i cant sell my current armor and weapon for a good price because 16s will be very unpopular soon: all people will move up or down to be on top of some tier.

Now let talk about 17-18 levels, there are many of them. These guys cant delevel down to 15 (only one level down is allowed), so they must go up to 20 and change change their gear completely, which will be costy due to hi demand on top-tier gear.

I think this situation affects majority of twinks because the most popular brackets are 13-17. Only 15 level guys are happy with the new system.

In my opinion STS should act more wisely and dont bring such wide brackets where all players must move to the top of the tiers. I believe many people will support me and is situation will be fixed soon.

[worshiped]

This is highly disliked, you endgamers can't start talking about this because you dont know what it is like. STS some people stay at levels they feel comfortable with not having to be forced to a higher level to survive in twink. I am joining level 20s but can't join a level 15, If you check the stats a level 19 rogue can 3 hit me with crits and i am a 17 tank fully geared. STS please just change this back in behalf of 15-18 pvp and <Fame>

[worshiped]

This seems really cool. No more: you're a higher level nonsense from twinks, everybody will just go to the highest level for that tier.

The point of the game is not to go to the higher level of the tier, to start over find new gear and you have to keep in mind no one will be willing to buy 16-19 PvP gear, thus you have no gold to buy new gear. The nonsense is part of the game all people have been in levels they feel comfortable with its not level nonsense, simply just a fact that people are saying about there gear and level, but this is not the way to solve that at all.

[Futurereal]

STS can you please restore lvl 15-18 to how it was before. Lvl 16-20's just not fair anymore as a current lvl 16 rogue/tank twink player the lvl gap became way too far, this is not what makes pvp balanced at lower lvl! Especially not at lvl 15-18 from what it used to be before. Many people already complain that they do not want to do pvp anymore at this bracket, Why? Because of this level gap it gives higher lvl players the opportunity to take advantage on lower lvl's simply because the stats are higher. Not to mention that lvl 15s & lvl 16s used to play together as guild or play against each other which was fair before, same goes for 16s & 17s, 17s and 18s and so on. Despite the fact that two levels difference was a fair challenge, i hope this getting fixed spent million's of golds getting gears on both classes as it was for me the best bracket to play pvp after retiring endgame before.

Regards,

A two year old twink currently in <Fame>

[Robiiinhood]

Almost 3yrs playing pvp.. I came from 7,8,9,10 twink lvl and now im in 11 then these updates come lol...
ign: Robiiinhood - The God Army

[Lawpvp]

Ive written essays in the past and this is likely to be fairly long aswell so here it goes...

For starters, instead of just saying "i dont like this" lets try and come up with a general consensus on what the best course of action moving forwards is.


I'm open to revising the Tiers based on what's most fun and most popular :-)
this is from Cinco on another thread ive made so clearly he is open to hearing what we have to say

The old system had many good aspects to it and it wasnt really an issue. I do recognize that the introduction of tiers is in large part for the distinction of the damage and heal nerfs but I dont think entirely scrapping a system that worked well already is the way to go. I think a blend of old and new will make the majority of people happy. I think what needs to be discussed here are what the most important factors of how pvp rooms ought to function objectively. Personally I think the most important factors are as follows:

The level gap: the level gap as it was before was perfect imo and many others probably feel the same way. Only 2 levels (10-11 for example or 12-13) would probably be too small and cause rooms to be more inactive due to a more limited number of players who can join a given map. 4 levels (perhaps 13-16) is probably too big because then the balance between the highest and lowest level becomes too much to deal with. 3 levels was pretty much perfect because it was still possible to beat people who are 2 levels higher than you(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQZwfREoKA heres the proof for the nubs who cry about only 1 lvl) and it creates a bigger pool of potential enemies. So i think the pvp maps should remain as before with only 3 levels in one map.

Tiers for the damage and healing nerfs: I agree with scaling of the nerfs based upon level, its the only logical way to do it. However i dont think lvls 10, 15, 20, etc should be at the top of those tiers. Alternatively i think lvls 9, 14, 19, should be at the top of the tiers. So maybe 5-9, 10-14, 15-19. Levels 10, 15, etc represent when a new type of jewel is available. These levels are also exclusive to certain types of items that are very prevalent in twinking, tarlok amulet/winter star ring, lvl 15 is when power/legend/enchanted/ensorcelled rings start. Most 14s use eerie as their amulet of choice while most 15s use tarlok. This partial power spike in gear along with the upgrade in jewels gives 15s a bigger advantage over 14s than lvl 16s have over 15s in comparison. As a result I think tiers should for the damage/heal nerfs should start at lvls 10, 15, etc to compensate for the larger power spike over previous levels. Now this does pose the question of what the first tier will be, i think if the first tier was 1-9 it wouldnt be much of an issue because stats are low enough at those levels that a small percentage difference in the nerfs between lvl 5 and 6 as it is now wont make any significant difference anyways.

Tier for establishing pvp zones: Personally i dont think having set levels for maps is the way to go. This only encourages people to level up to be near the top of their respective tier. As it is currently lvl 16s or 11s are kinda screwed because they will fight primarily people higher level than them while level 15s or 20s will never face that challenge. With the old system sometimes u would fight higher levels, sometimes lower levels, but it evened out for the most part in the end. and plus, many guilds are right on the border of the tiers. 10-11 guilds can no longer pvp together, 15-16 guilds can no longer pvp together. I think the old system did a good job of allowing you to fight higher and lower levels while keeping the gap in stats within reason.

The beauty of the old system is that you can pvp at just about any level you want to thats active and have people the same level, higher level, and lower level to fight against. Having set levels for pvp maps that dont change encourages certain levels over others and devalues items near the bottom end of tiers while creating a much shortage and overvalueing of items at the higher end of tiers. While i completely agree with tiers for the sake of damage and heal nerfs, i dont think it was really necessary to change how pvp maps are made.

[Lawpvp]

this just shows how sad and unappreciative many of you players are. people cant deal with a situation for more than 24 hours before they start complaining and contemplating uninstall. Heres an idea, quit being useless people and propose solutions as i have

[Iots]

Please tell me how can 16lv will win 18-20lv?

Sent from my SM-T705 using Tapatalk

[Justg]

Cleaned up the thread a bit. We're here, we're listening, and if you want to have a productive conversation, please keep the drama out of it.

Thanks,

- g

[Lawpvp]

Cleaned up the thread a bit. We're here, we're listening, and if you want to have a productive conversation, please keep the drama out of it.

Thanks,

- g

and propose something, 40 comments saying "this is unfair why change it" does nothing, better off not commenting and keeping the thread shorter so people can read it to catch up

[Hail]

I must say though, I much prefer the idea of fixed level zones rather than a possibility of what levels can enter. It is also an advantage to me, my low level is 10 - despite not using it #endgameratm.
ATM I am 50/50 in regards to the idea. As I said before, fixed level zones are awesome but I do understand the rage of people at the lower ends of the brackets. But guys remember this was done to tackle the ever growing unbalance in pvp. STS could have just screwed us over and given us that -50% damage at every level but instead they scaled it to work best for every level.. so best to not rage over it too much and discuss the problem in a polite manner :)

Finally, a big thanks to sts for considering lower levels and working towards a more fair pvp for all, keep it up guys the game is starting to look great in my eyes.

[resurrected]

Twinks are gonna love this! :D Ty Cinco
So far i do!

[diexdie]

:v

Sent from my EVERCOSS A65 using Tapatalk

[putter]

Level 16 can never win level 20 clash. Neither can level 10 win level 15. If they have same gear or the higher levels even less expensive gear they would also win. At twinks 1 level is already a big difference. Maybe it's better to nerf between 15-19 and the maps level can change by 3 levels so you can still have like a 15-17 map with the same nerfs as a 17-19 map has

[Upperbound]

Why cant we have old +/-2 levels system and damage nerf based on player level or at least on average player level in the map, or something like that?

[Donquixoth]

Nowadays, twink becoming more quite than 1 year ago. IMO, this is great idea.

[Vvards]

Don't fix what ain't broken!!!

[Cinco]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.

[epicrrr]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.


YAY

*We are changing and AL PVP (low end) is becoming complex i think i like this Tier system if everyone just go the max level per tier or the level before it, would be easier to launch pvp tourneys and manage future events (guild war, castle siege, 10v10 arenas(full of hope)) cause there will be a good number of players to participate and the community will be easier to monitor;

NAY

*Item scarcity and possible massive para item value fluctuation (complex-anger-management-required-scenario)

[Lawpvp]

Yeah - the old system had some really cool aspects. I'm proud of that design 'cause it did a great job of matchmaking AL's early (very small) PVP community. And honestly, back in the beginning we didn't put an emphasis on PVP balance. Throwing characters at any level against characters at any two levels above or below was just fine. Today, with a desire to achieve balanced fights in our PVP arenas, the flaws of the original system are presenting challenges that make it excessively difficult to manage. Especially considering how big the advancement game has become and how vast the equipment offerings have grown. So, I assert that adding more complexity to the old system would move us in the wrong direction.

It is true that the new system puts pressure on competitors to advance to the top of each numerical Tier. From a game design perspective, this is cool because it ensures that we can achieve an exciting and competitive balance for these Tiers. Balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty-six individual levels within a margin of two levels above and below.

Now: could I have told everybody about these Tier plans before they were implemented? Yup. That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/
But that reminds me... I need to post in the Pet Forum to break the news about the unbelievably powerful pet power swapping system and the upcoming Arcane Ability combo system. These will have an impressive effect on everything PVE, PVP and their respective economies.

tbh i dont think there is any flaw in fighting people 2 levels below or above. Changing maps to have 5 different levels would exponentiate any existing flaws in balance. Heres some proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTkrb5NHUI 5 lvl 17s vs 5 lvl 19s with sns....the 17s won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQZwfREoKA 3-4 lvl 17s(we were blocked at start) beating 4 18-19s 5-6 times in a row

while moving everybody to the top of tiers would in theory make it more competitive because people are being funneled into 1-2 levels per tier, i dont think that logistically it will be feasible. There is a scarcity of the best items at lvl 15 as is. If everyone from 11-15 all moves to 15, there will not be enough gear for everyone and those with the best items will have a profound advantage over those who have only been able to find 1-2 strong items instead of a full set. So balance isnt really achieved.

That being said, entirely agree with you balancing ten tiers is profoundly simpler than balancing the combination of fifty six individual levels. But i maintain that using 10 tiers for establishing the percentages on damage and healing nerfs could create balance across any combination on 3 lvls, 15-17, 13-15, 10-12, etc. As ive shown in the above urls, a full team of 17s could beat a full team of 19s, if we were to face lvl 20s? nuh uh.

What I think would be best for making players happy and the developers lives easier is a tier system for establishing the damage and healing nerfs but leave the old matchmaking system as it was. Would it be possible to have tiers of nerfs that dont impact the matchmaking? so even though level 14s may have smaller nerfs than lvl 16s, they can still end up in a match together? This is the compromise that I think would benefit everyone.

[Justg]

There is a scarcity of the best items at lvl 15 as is. If everyone from 11-15 all moves to 15, there will not be enough gear for everyone and those with the best items will have a profound advantage over those who have only been able to find 1-2 strong items instead of a full set.

We'll see how this all shakes out, but we are very open to introducing new gear (and bringing back some old stuff) to equip these tiers.

[kinzmet]

Dear Sir Cinco,

I have to admit, what I feel inlove in AL was the twinking PVP system. If you have design that then my hats off to you :)
I do agree with the new design you did, the bracket system. But the disarray was on levels in-between the brackets caps.
Also you didn't give us a chance to know something that would change our twinking drastically, you hit a lot of spots that
would shake our silent peace in the twinking world.

You said you could have told us about the tier plans in advance, but failed to do so. If you sincerly sorry, then accept the
responsibility about it :)

That's my bad. Sorry. No excuses :-/

I propose, that you would help us "adjust" our levels. Like level11 that wanted to be L10, or L16 that wanted to be L15, or
L18 who wanted to be L15 etc etc. When I said help, not just de-leveling the toons but also de-leveling the gears with the
gems/jewels intact.

If this compromise would be agreed, then there will be no distress in forums and in-game about a radical change that was
implemented out-of-the-blue.

Again, my hats off to you and the design team! This change was needed and I hoped for more interresting things from you guys!




Respectfully,
-kinzmet

[Cinco]

I agree w/ G. The most exciting and interesting thing - which would also help assure good, balanced fights in PVP tiers - would be the introduction of new powerful stuff for these lower levels.

[Upperbound]

If we stay with the new system, it would be really fair option to be able delevel or level up to the closest tier with current gear and pets delevelled too. Personally, I've spent like 10-15m on my 16 level gear recently and with the new system it will be useless.

[Upperbound]

BTW, I like the idea when all people fight on the same balanced level: 10, 15, 20 and so on, but you should do something for currently geared mid-tier guys like me: 11, 13, 16, 17 and so on. Otherwise the will be unbalanced comparing to currently geared top-tiers.

[Lawpvp]

We'll see how this all shakes out, but we are very open to introducing new gear (and bringing back some old stuff) to equip these tiers.


I agree w/ G. The most exciting and interesting thing - which would also help assure good, balanced fights in PVP tiers - would be the introduction of new powerful stuff for these lower levels.

Except there is no reason to do this in the first place considering nobody complained the old system anyways. Implement the tiers for damage and healing nerfs and leave the old matchmaking as it was. Would anybody complain about this? No. Easier for devs to balance fewer tiers, players are still happy, everyone wins

[worshiped]

My question is how much longer we will have to deal with this tier system, give us a certain time you have thought for this until you change back, just this weekend or 1 week?

[Justg]

My question is how much longer we will have to deal with this tier system, give us a certain time you have thought for this until you change back, just this weekend or 1 week?

We're gathering feedback and data while you play over the weekend and will reconvene as a dev team on Monday to discuss it.

I'll keep the thread clear of threats to quit, sweeping generalities, or claims to speak for everyone so we can maintain a collaborative environment.

Thanks for the valuable data and thoughts.

- g

[Twerk]

Please tell me how can 16lv will win 18-20lv?

Sent from my SM-T705 using Tapatalk

If I could win versus fights with 19lvls as 17lvl -> I don't see the problem of 16lvl facing 18lvl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuoIM8X0so < 17 and 1 18lv versus team full of 19lvls

The problem is that 16lvls are always excusing and crying over fights and clashes versus levels higher than them. What is the point?

[XxpuretankxX]

i saw no problems with pvp before, just sts shouldve never of taken rogue armor away. and im a warrior saying that rogues were not overpowered, tanks could kill rogues and the other way around and same with mages. now im at level 10 with rogues who can crit a tank to 50% in one combo, which never has happened before no matter how many para or eye. and being a level10 i have the uperhand over the other levels in my tier which seems fine but i feel bad clashing agaisnt 6-7 with a 10 team i think its unfair. pvp was perfectly fine fine before the nerfs and balances sure there was apparently problems at endgame but twink seemed fine and very balanced.

[Niixed]

I think this change is wonderful, I really love the idea because it will guarantee plenty of activity at each bracket and eliminate many other problems that cause drama.

My problem with this change is that the 25-30 million gold I've invested in my two 23 twinks will be destroyed. I have a paras, eyes, grand tarloks and grand reinforced gear. The demand for level 25 gear will skyrocket omg. I truly hope you give us the option of upgrading our gear to 25 (or the highest level of whichever tier we are now members of) while NOT destroying the precious gems. That would make the transition much easier and the pvp community would be very grateful.

[additions]

How does lvl8 win over lvl10 with different jewels attached to their gears and the skills theyre using...very perfect idea lol

[intizamfamily888]

I agree w/ G. The most exciting and interesting thing - which would also help assure good, balanced fights in PVP tiers - would be the introduction of new powerful stuff for these lower levels.
We dont need any new stuff. Just bring back some old stuff like ice sets and maybe a para gem which can be crafted on items lvl 46 and below. This would also revive the economy since the market of twink items is a good merching point.

Gesendet von meinem ASUS_Z00AD mit Tapatalk

[Otahaanak]

I think the new system is best for both the players and STS. Of course they will have to introduce new gear, or bring back old gear so it can be competitive for all players not just those who are op and camping at a certain level forever. A refresh of sorts, just like end game.

+1 STS






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Niixed]

Another thing I'd like to add.

I love the idea of introducing new gear, but I hate it as a solution to meet the demand that this change will create. It would be totally unfair for the players who are not already at the highest level in their bracket to have to bear the brunt of the costs of making this change. It is not enough to just tell us "Everything will be ok!" and toss in some new gear and old gems hoping to mollify the angry crowd.

By creating these brackets, you would be arbitrarily picking the winners and losers of who has to pay for the new gear to support them. Please give us the option of upgrading or downgrading our gear to the appropriate level so we can all be winners. Then, please do introduce some long-overdue new gear for lower level PvP players.

[Bluebatthing]

This is a great idea!!! Allowing players who are in the middle of the brackets to either lvl up or down to the top lvl of the brackets of their choosing along with their gear/gems and pet would, in my opinion, ensure more twink activities. This will allow the mid-tier players who have invested millions in their gear to continue to participate in low lvl pvp without having to worry about selling/losing gold trying to lvl up and buy new gear.

I really hope STS takes this idea into consideration as it is the least disruptive solution to this tier system.

I think this change is wonderful, I really love the idea because it will guarantee plenty of activity at each bracket and eliminate many other problems that cause drama.

My problem with this change is that the 25-30 million gold I've invested in my two 23 twinks will be destroyed. I have a paras, eyes, grand tarloks and grand reinforced gear. The demand for level 25 gear will skyrocket omg. I truly hope you give us the option of upgrading our gear to 25 (or the highest level of whichever tier we are now members of) while NOT destroying the precious gems. That would make the transition much easier and the pvp community would be very grateful.

[Energizeric]

I haven't posted a really good original idea in quite a while, but reading this thread made me think of one.....

How about introducing a recipe into the game that would allow twinks to upgrade items to top of their PVP tier.

For example, if you are a level 16 warrior and you have this excellent Icescale Helm & Armor set with full para gems, now you are being faced with a situation where in order to compete you must level up to 20. Suddenly your very expensive level 16 Icescale set has become somewhat worthless. So how about being able to obtain a recipe that will allow you to upgrade an item from level 16 to level 20. This upgrade process would upgrade the item to the exact same item at level 20, and would keep the same exact gems that the level 16 item had.

These recipes could be divided into tiers and could be an item that comes in locked crates. So if you are a level 16 warrior and you open a locked crate, you would have a chance to loot a "Level 20 Upgrade Recipe". Only items from level 16-19 would be eligible to be upgraded using a "Level 20 Upgrade Recipe". Similar recipes could exist for levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, and 40. And the recipes could be tradable for those who do not open locked crates.

Also, I think only legendary items should be eligible for these upgrades. Mythic and Arcane items are only available at certain levels, so those cannot be upgraded.

I think this will solve this problem. Because no matter how you design the tier levels, there is always going to be someone who falls at the lower end of a tier who will feel cheated.

[Loriada]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with what others have said -> Either return to the previous pvp level-matching system (where each level has a niche), or give us a way to adjust our level and the level of our gear.

Honestly, there is so much dependent on that one little number, and yet it seems so arbitrary and abstract. A really solid item being one or two levels off, it kind of takes the fun out, if you know what I mean. I should be able to visit a blacksmith and request a slight modification or something. And the idea of scrapping everything that you've put into a character and starting over just because you're a couple levels too high... for me at least it's a bit too much. I've had the same level 16 rogue for longer than I've had my end-cap rogue. Heck, I reached end-cap as a way to finance my level 16! Earned Infamous title, arcane daggers, joined top-ranking guild and maintain a 500 to 1 pve kdr, but what I really wanted to do was invest in my level 16. Please don't tell me that it was all for nothing...

I don't normally spend a lot of platinum, but you bet I would to keep all that hard work from going to waste. It doesn't have to be cheap or easy, but it could very well make a huge difference in whether or not a lot of us can keep playing at low-levels with the same characters that we have stuck with for months and even years. It's not just pvp, but also events and low-level farming and helping out newer players. Given the choice, I prefer doing dailies and such with my level 16. I love showing people that level isn't everything, and that what you put into the game has (or should have) a direct result upon what you get out of it.

[mutantninjaz]

I must say though, I much prefer the idea of fixed level zones rather than a possibility of what levels can enter. It is also an advantage to me, my low level is 10 - despite not using it #endgameratm.
ATM I am 50/50 in regards to the idea. As I said before, fixed level zones are awesome but I do understand the rage of people at the lower ends of the brackets. But guys remember this was done to tackle the ever growing unbalance in pvp. STS could have just screwed us over and given us that -50% damage at every level but instead they scaled it to work best for every level.. so best to not rage over it too much and discuss the problem in a polite manner :)

Finally, a big thanks to sts for considering lower levels and working towards a more fair pvp for all, keep it up guys the game is starting to look great in my eyes.

u say this becoz u have a lvl 10 already those who are lvl 6-7 what will they do no one will buy their gears...coz all try to buy lvl 10 gears how can we ever sell our gears if so?

im a lvl 7 op rouge with one of the best gears and hardcore pvp player.....

what should we do with our gears if no one buys it how can we go lvl 10 without gold and gears will be unavailable at 10 if all lvl up

and those who stay at 6-7 has a chance of starting to do dummy coz they cant sell their gears.....this will the mentality of those who are not able to lvl up, cant say but it can be a possibility....so sts kindly do the needed we would much appreciate if we have our old system back

and plz dont edit this post let them all understand what im trying to say :)

[Thaze]

Agree with mutantninjaz... i think this idea is awful. Everyone will go to the same level because lower levels will get destroyed. Im a lvl 7 twink and I dont feel like trying to sell my maxed gear(that nobody will buy) and going up to the top of the tier(lvl 10).

[Buymystuff]

I don't think a A LVL 22 vs LVL 25 is fair.

I don't want to level up and buy new armour!

Consider making a recipe which allows us to LVL up our armours to the top of the tier!

[mutantninjaz]

ya its true what buymystuff said..... i spent around 4m too for my gears

if this tier system happens then my geras will be worth 1m or less hardly anyone will buy it

I would lose a lot of value with these changes.

[Thaze]

Many people play pvp at twink levels. If im not mistaken, the whole point of these recent updates were to make pvp more balanced. However, i dont see in any way how making the level span 5 levels makes pvp more balanced.

Everyone will get fed up with being destroyed by the top tier twinks, and they will flock to those levels which will ruin the market for all of the lower levels.

Many twinks have spent years collecting rare items that are specific to their level.

Pvp was good before with a 3 level span. Please fix it. Thank you for reading.

[kinzmet]

Thats why my proposal would solve things like these. Let me quote myself:

I propose, that you would help us "adjust" our levels. Like level11 that wanted to be L10, or L16 that wanted to be L15, or
L18 who wanted to be L15 etc etc. When I said help, not just de-leveling the toons but also de-leveling the gears with the
gems/jewels intact.

I don't think new gears will solve this issue since para and eyes wont be back.
Unless the new gears would have set bonus that would surpass para and eye.

[Redjellydonut]

Omg please fix pvp system :( people have spent tons of gold collecting their gear for their specific lvl... You guys are causing big pvp guilds such as Fake, Evolution, Evolt, some Elite Twinks, some Tga, and Hunt to have huuuggge difficulties fighting lvl10s... It is not the same at these lvls.. Just one lvl makes a big deference. Nobody likes this idea down at thise lvls. Making the tons of gold and effort people put in their gear go to the trash please put the lvls back how there were


Please expalin to me... How on earth will a lvl6 kill a lvl10? :( (if u have played these brackets before u know our pain).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wlsgh15]

Dear Sir Cinco,

I have to admit, what I feel inlove in AL was the twinking PVP system. If you have design that then my hats off to you :)
I do agree with the new design you did, the bracket system. But the disarray was on levels in-between the brackets caps.
Also you didn't give us a chance to know something that would change our twinking drastically, you hit a lot of spots that
would shake our silent peace in the twinking world.

You said you could have told us about the tier plans in advance, but failed to do so. If you sincerly sorry, then accept the
responsibility about it :)


I propose, that you would help us "adjust" our levels. Like level11 that wanted to be L10, or L16 that wanted to be L15, or
L18 who wanted to be L15 etc etc. When I said help, not just de-leveling the toons but also de-leveling the gears with the
gems/jewels intact.

If this compromise would be agreed, then there will be no distress in forums and in-game about a radical change that was
implemented out-of-the-blue.

Again, my hats off to you and the design team! This change was needed and I hoped for more interresting things from you guys!




Respectfully,
-kinzmet

this will make solution

[Zynzyn]

First of all, I would like to thank the STS dev team for listening. You are making efforts to bring in changes for the health of the game and it shows. The forum community is better now than it has ever been with JustG and Cinco and other devs communicating with us. I do feel heard. Really appreciate it.

It is understood that the new system of PVP matchmaking Tiers (6-10, 11-15, etc) was implemented for better management of balance issues. Your perspective is clear to me. Ofcourse making changes per Tier is more convenient than making changes per level. It is indeed easier to assess the needs and issues of static brackets. But here is why I did not like the new system, from a player perspective.

1. This system is not for all. It gives priority to certain sections of players and isolates some others. Only the twinks who find themselves at the top level of each tier will absolutely LOVE this new system. It is nothing but sheer luck that those of us who play lvl 10 or 15 or 20 get to enjoy this new ability to be paired with players who are much lower than their own level. Very very easy kills.

2. The in-betweens (lvl 11, 13, 16, 17, etc) are at a loss for various reasons. In the earlier system they could choose to fight higher levels (if they had a team) or opt out if they were alone. Now they are forced to fight only levels higher than them or level up to the top of the tier.

3. Over the years, pvp twink guilds were formed based on that old matchmaking system. While it is lovely for players to level up and meet new friends from a different level range, it is also unfair to take away the ability to play together from long-time friends who are for example lvl 10 and 11 and have been guildmates/friends for years.

4. Given that players decide to level up to the top of each tier, what happens to the millions of gold and thousands of plat spent on acquiring their sets for their chosen level? Not cool.

Now having said that, how can this system be made to work? I would suggest the following options.

1. As somebody already stated a 3 level bracket instead of 5 in each Tier would be better. I am not sure but hoping that PVP is disabled for Lv 1s (there is absolutely no point enabling PVP for lv 1) , the brackets should start from lvl 2, so that the Tier consists of - [2,3,4]/ [5,6,7]/ [8,9,10] etc. This will still encourage players to level up to the top rung of the tier but the difference would be less.

2. Supposing the Tiers stay 5 levels as they are now, an NPC should be introduced which upgrades the level of our currently used equipment with all jewels and gems intact.This way players can smoothly level up without any loss. Suppose we use lvl 17 set, we should be able to level up our set to lvl 20 for example.

[wlsgh15]

I was thinking if they get some bonus or dmg reduction for each level no matter which level is. if they are lower level than opponent, the lower level players they get buff for scaled to both level so everyone in the braket 6 , 11, 16 still can play but it only applies on pvp. and they dont need to waste their gear too. it makes fair

same goes to 7,12.17 too

so the number of level is just number. otherwise level braeket between 5 doesnt mean anything

[resurrected]

How about make it 3 lvl cap instead 5?

[Xinghvn]

Omg please fix pvp system :( people have spent tons of gold collecting their gear for their specific lvl... You guys are causing big pvp guilds such as Fake, Evolution, Evolt, some Elite Twinks, some Tga, and Hunt to have huuuggge difficulties fighting lvl10s... It is not the same at these lvls.. Just one lvl makes a big deference. Nobody likes this idea down at thise lvls. Making the tons of gold and effort people put in their gear go to the trash please put the lvls back how there were


Please expalin to me... How on earth will a lvl6 kill a lvl10? :( (if u have played these brackets before u know our pain).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeh, big difference between lv6 and 10. Same goes with the other levels, players that are top of their tier are generally op compared to the other levels in their tier. The new pvp setup only made the top level of each tier more valuable and kinda destroyed the purpose of being other levels in the tier. It caused players to either lv up (delevel too) or rely on higher level players in their tier. So sts please reconsider and experiment this new pvp setup.

But thank you so much sts for listening to us, it really helps :), looking forward (and a bit worried hehehe) to the new pet combo aa system, imagine the combo of sns aa death pool with toor aa quake, OMG OP O.o, hopefully that wont happen XD

[mutantninjaz]

We'll see how this all shakes out, but we are very open to introducing new gear (and bringing back some old stuff) to equip these tiers.

but what about our para gears .... it took so long to find para gears now its completely destroyed if this tier system comes to live....will ull give our para back?

so better give us our old system back rather than tier system

[Lawpvp]

From what ive seen it seems like many people would be in favor of one of the 2 following solutions(this is an observation not a generalization):

1: bring back the old pvp matchmaking where maps have 3 levels but keep the pvp tiers solely for the same of the damage and healing nerfs. This makes the players happy because guilds stay in tact, and players of all levels will be able to join any map without getting farmed with 0 chance of fighting back. Devs are happy because there are fewer tiers that have to have the nerf values adjusted so less work for them.

2. Keep the tier system as is but there needs to be some major accomodations if this is the plan moving forwards. People should be given the option to lvl up to the top of their current tier or the tier below them. So if im 17 i should be granted the chance to delvl to 15. 15 is more similar to 17 than 20 is so i shouldnt be forced to go to 20 or an even higher tier after that if i want to br at the top lvl of my tier. Also there needs to be some course of action for the manipulation of gear to de lvl or lvl up with us. People have spent millions on there gear and out of the blue a new system comes a long that has the potential to seriously devalue items at lvls such as 16. What are people who spent millions on gear two weeks ago suppsed to do? Bite the pillow and bear the brunt of the financial consequences? I dont think so.

Also, an influx of people across 5 levels being funneled into only the 1 or 2 highest levels of each tier will create a devastating shortage in pvp gear.

G and cinco have mentioned presenting new items or bringing back old ones but here is my problem with that. New items will have to be so overpowered in stats to wipe out any remaining eye/para items or else people will still rather use their current gear. And if its that good it twinks, imagine that gear scaling to endgame. My problen with bringing back old gear is not only does it further devalue our current items, but there will still be a limited number of premier gemmed items at each lvl (14-15, 19-20) so people are still at a disadvantage.

Allowing people to have there items lvl up or delvl with then maintains the value of there items, prevente a shortage of gear, and maintains the value of items that people have spent millions on whether months ago or 2 weeks ago.

My take on this: why go through all the effort and hassle and discontent with changing peoples level/gear or finding a way to create new gear that surpasses our current gear while not being profoundly broken at endgame. Nobody had complaints about the old system, atleast none that ive ever seen. 0 threads were being made saying the old system needed changing, how many threads have been made saying this one does?

Why cant we just keep the tier system for damage and healing nerfs but leave the matchmaking as it was before? ^^^ least amount of discontent from players and accomodation required on sts part but they still have an easier method for managing the damage and healing nerfs:

Sidenotes:
1. tbh the simplest thing to do would be to write an equation for the need values based upon level, ez done. Could be linear, might not be perfect but it would be more than adequate. Better yet, work with players to develop an exponential equation seeing as how dmg increases exponentially at higher levels. Pair this with the old matchmaking and pvp is even more balanced than it was before.And before i could still beat a full team of 19s using a fill team of 17s

Just food for thought

2. As for the actual tiers, i dont think lvls 10,15, 20 should be the top. Those levels have items exclusive to those lvls that the rest of the tier wont be able to use(unless they use the lower level version but a lvl 13-14 using a lvl 10 amulet or ring? Nuh uh. Plus those levels are when new jewels are available....this just makes the current imbalance between the highest lvl of the tier and all the other levels even more profound. It should be 10-14, 15-19 etc

so once again, why go through all the hassle when complaints to the old system were nearly nonexistent? Why not keep the tiers for damage and healing nerfs but leave the matchmaking as it was before <<<< this is entirely reasonable if there were no complaints that ive seen with the old system, there wont be any complaints if its brought back

[Niixed]

My take on this: why go through all the effort and hassle and discontent with changing peoples level/gear or finding a way to create new gear that surpasses our current gear while not being profoundly broken at endgame. Nobody had complaints about the old system, atleast none that ive ever seen. 0 threads were being made saying the old system needed changing, how many threads have been made saying this one does?

Why cant we just keep the tier system for damage and healing nerfs but leave the matchmaking as it was before? ^^^ least amount of discontent from players and accomodation required on sts part but they still have an easier method for managing the damage and healing nerfs:

...

so once again, why go through all the hassle when complaints to the old system were nearly nonexistent? Why not keep the tiers for damage and healing nerfs but leave the matchmaking as it was before <<<< this is entirely reasonable if there were no complaints that ive seen with the old system, there wont be any complaints if its brought back

I loved your post, I think you thoroughly explored the topic and your reasoning is very strong. I can't really argue with anything you've said.

However, I am gonna step in and defend what the devs are trying to do here. While it is true that nobody complained about the old system, it is clear that STS is now taking PvP balance seriously. They have two weeks worth of data and, now that they've analyzed it, they've discovered that balancing PvP going forward is far too complex with the current system. Devs proposed and half-implemented a new system. Unsurprisingly, players accustomed to the old, unbalanced system are resisting moving toward a new, balanced system.

We've all made significant investments that are dependent on the old system. But, if Arcane Legends is going to have a sustainable future, PvP must be well balanced. I have a stake in this change; as a level 23 pvp player I stand to lose a small fortune. However, I also want the game to thrive and, because devs have lately been amazingly responsive and open-minded, I'm willing to give them some breathing room and trust that they are trying to do what is best for everyone. I don't think they want to see our hard-earned gear drop 90% in value or otherwise create economic chaos.

That being said, the solution may well be that things return to what they were - idk. Whatever the case, I'd really like to see things how play out because maybe there is a happy medium where we players are satisfied AND authentic PvP balance is an achievable endeavor for devs.

[Thaze]

I enjoy the level i play at now. I dont want to "level up my gear" to the highest tier. I really hope sts can come up with a solution where we can all stay at our own levels, and it can still be balanced. As i have heard many people say, nobody complained about the old system and i would love to have it back :)

[Squlo]

Will sts fix that? Becouse seriously i am bored and i want to stay my level sts forcing us for go to high levels seriously not fair

[kinzmet]

I dont know where you guys get the idea that nobody is complaning about the old match-making system. It was a hot topic that pops up every now and then ever since the PvP was introduced. The forum just got battered with a lot of things that the twinkers already adjusted thier playing style to the old-match-making system so they don't bothered to make any new threads regarding the matter.

The thing is, the current twink community don't readily accept the new Tier-bracket system because:

The twink-level they are playing was in between the bracket which means they have to break the guilds they are in to cope to the new system. Victims would be L5-6, L10-11, L15-16 etc.
The gears they have which is worth millions of golds because of the special gems or gear rarity would go to waste. While the gears of the top-tier just got more expensive.


The first one is easy, since if the tier-bracket system would go the players would simply join a new guild. But the problem is the 2nd one which is the main cause of this outrage.

[Alexandr_Leopardiks]

Well, you said there is unbalanced pvp now. But I want to ask you, why do you call it "unbalanced" if people who really wants to be top at their level must have the best gear and lots of skills. Isn't it balance for mmo rpg twinks? It is big part in twinking- to find rare items and choose right style in playing. And even in new system there will be rich players who will use the best set and pet and anyways will break the balance.
Also you said that there must be more balance, what do you mean "balance"? Is it like rogues kill mages, mages kill tanks, tanks kill rogues? I think it is unreal to do balance since all players have different levels, pets and sets. So why you can't let it be like it was before?
Btw it seems to me much more balanced 3lvls in 1pvp map. I mean, I love your idea to make 16-20zones(cuz im 18l tank) and there are no problems for me in this bracket, but I understand, since new tiers 16-20 will stay in AL more than on one month, I will lose all my friends and enemies on 16-19, because they will lvlup or delvl, and 16-19zones will be dead for twinks. I play on 18l for 3years, so i ask you: please, do not kill my level!
It is cool that you care about balance,but please,don't break the old match-making system.

[wlsgh15]

solution level braket range 2

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

[Muteds]

solution level braket range 2

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

yea better braket range 1 or 2
but this new braket no bad, sts make balanced no more cry about lv if lose in pvp all have fight with same lv in war. but this will make gear on lv 5 10 15 20 to expensive cos all player will go that level .

[wlsgh15]

yea better braket range 1 or 2
but this new braket no bad, sts make balanced no more cry about lv if lose in pvp all have fight with same lv in war. but this will make gear on lv 5 10 15 20 to expensive cos all player will go that level .
yeah and we just lost tons of gold for nothing. noone pays our lost and cant get gear even if we reach the tier. i am getting adjusted in new system but the thing is i cant afford rarest one. cuz only few have it.

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

[Muteds]

yeah and we just lost tons of gold for nothing. noone pays our lost and cant get gear even if we reach the tier. i am getting adjusted in new system but the thing is i cant afford rarest one. cuz only few have it.

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

:cool: hahhaa yes i see now hard to sell item lv 11,12,13,16,17,18 and will go cheap price , player will lose much gold.

[xxSkyxx]

This is a really good idea.. Luckily I've already got lvl15. These changes will make It more interesting and also increase the amount of players to compete with and against. However there will be a scarcity of gears, especially those with para/eyes.

I think it will be a good idea to reintroduce these gems for Twinks or these Lvl gaps will be dominated by players who own these gears which ultimately won't help the goal that you are trying to achieve here.

Kudos though to these changes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Visiting]

An easy solution for STS is to release new better twink gear during the next upcoming event, this way everyone has a chance to get the new best set at their new bracket if they decide they want to lvl up, while keeping the old premium jewel'd/gem'd sets competive. While the players will still lose money on their old sets, that's bound to happen either way IMO.

[wlsgh15]

An easy solution for STS is to release new better twink gear during the next upcoming event, this way everyone has a chance to get the new best set at their new bracket if they decide they want to lvl up, while keeping the old premium jewel'd/gem'd sets competive. While the players will still lose money on their old sets, that's bound to happen either way IMO.
I'm agree with this and I'd like to request for degrade level for free since it changed without a notice and lots of players lost and hurt alrdy. STS i am sure you can do that at least

나의 SM-G935F 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

[Lawpvp]

This is a really good idea.. Luckily I've already got lvl15. These changes will make It more interesting and also increase the amount of players to compete with and against. However there will be a scarcity of gears, especially those with para/eyes.

I think it will be a good idea to reintroduce these gems for Twinks or these Lvl gaps will be dominated by players who own these gears which ultimately won't help the goal that you are trying to achieve here.

Kudos though to these changes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ofc a lvl 15 is in favor of it, ur part of the 20% it benefits while the other 80% gets screwed


An easy solution for STS is to release new better twink gear during the next upcoming event, this way everyone has a chance to get the new best set at their new bracket if they decide they want to lvl up, while keeping the old premium jewel'd/gem'd sets competive. While the players will still lose money on their old sets, that's bound to happen either way IMO.

Considering ur not even an active twink why are you commenting about what is good and bad for twinks. Do you seriously think its justified for someone who spent 4m on gear 2 weeks ago then this new system comes out of the blue with zero warning and there items value and pvp experience are diminished severely? There wasnt even a need for a new system, let them be seperate, not one in the same

[xxSkyxx]

Ofc a lvl 15 is in favor of it, ur part of the 20% it benefits while the other 80% gets screwed

I'm in favour because it's a good idea... Fortunately I'm already geared but when major changes take place ofc there are those who will lose out, that's life!

I do suggest sts bring back para and eye gems though for twinks since I know ppl like yourself will be sore about it

[kinzmet]

Ofc a lvl 15 is in favor of it, ur part of the 20% it benefits while the other 80% gets screwed



Considering ur not even an active twink why are you commenting about what is good and bad for twinks. Do you seriously think its justified for someone who spent 4m on gear 2 weeks ago then this new system comes out of the blue with zero warning and there items value and pvp experience are diminished severely? There wasnt even a need for a new system, why screw over so many people and deal with such criticism, discontent and hassle for no tangible benefit. Its bs tbh. There is zero reason why they cant implement a tier system for the nerfs while leaving matchmaking as it was before. Let them be seperate, not one in the same

To be honest I feel where your coming from, my level16 twink efforts in the past 3 years suddenly got screwed with no warning. But I believe this change is for the good, the tier will give way to fairness (if we will all figth in the cap level of the tier), well not every twink level is like at level17 where you can fight L18s and 19s almost fairly. L9 vs L11 is an example where its so hard to win as L9. I hope this system they implement would be permanent but the devs should also find a way to compensate the "in-betweens" where the gears they have becomes useless and more importantly the discontinued gems it contains. New powerfull gears won't be enough since your going to work for that new gears while the gears you have now (worth millions) becomes crap.

Solutions I could think of:
1. Help on Toon Level adjustment and level of gears with the discontinued gems still intact.
or
2. Transfer of Para and Eye gems to new gears.

[Muteds]

LOL para eye bring back . sts never do that!
that it would create unbalanced financesl.
ik that best gem for pvp but that old gem and is not issued again, let it remain a special gem, if all have seen nothing special.

[kinzmet]

LOL para eye bring back . sts never do that!
that it would create unbalanced financesl.
ik that best gem for pvp but that old gem and is not issued again, let it remain a special gem, if all have seen nothing special.

It is the issue, since the gears worth a lot because of them. Taking the worth out without prior warning means outrage in-game and forum. If the gears don't have those gems then its just easy to change level and go to the top tier. Players on the levels that became the top tier will be overpowered to the "in-between" that will level up, that itself is unbalanced since the gears with those gems becomes scarce and prices just skyrockeeted.

[Muteds]

It is the issue, since the gears worth a lot because of them. Taking the worth out without prior warning means outrage in-game and forum. If the gears don't have those gems then its just easy to change level and go to the top tier. Players on the levels that became the top tier will be overpowered to the "in-between" that will level up, that itself is unbalanced since the gears with those gems becomes scarce and prices just skyrockeeted.

if the para & eye and can be transferred to another level item, then the same course only those who have the gold very much that will save them can move all the items that have at other levels.
I hope STS give new legendary item in next event that has a good status so that we are not left behind from those who save a lot of the para & eye.

[Alexandr_Leopardiks]

Guys, i still wonder, who said the old twink-pvp system is bad? Why do you want to change like more than half of pvp community without any reason? What are problems in that old twink system? Why you can't do changes slow, like you did before? Introduce items with events: like tarlok items, ancient sets, ice sets, galen mauls, etc, etc. Why do you want to change things in one moment which were started since 21l update, to change old pvp system- the last and the best from the old AL?

[Hector Chapy]

I only thing I ask is the option to download a warrior I am level 16 to level 15 would go unless we are given that option

[Cinco]

So - a couple of things:

First, a salute to you all for being such good sports about all of these crazy changes! You guys took the high-road all weekend and kept discussions (here, in game and in PM) civil and constructive! We all appreciate having such a loyal and invested community :-)

Second, we are going to return to our old system of matchmaking. Far too many concerns about abandoning hard-won, expensive gear and no good way to fix that. This isn't to say there haven't been tons of great, creative ideas about how to equitably move players within brackets - but there are just too many exceptions in the way of old items, discontinued drops, etc. to make a really rock-solid upscale / downscale system possible.

Lastly, we are going to keep the behind-the-scenes arena modifiers we've been working on over the last few weeks. We were successful in adjusting balance at the highest 'tier' of the game, but had poor results at the teen and 20's (because the adjustments required to make 40 and 50+ gear feel right made the stuff under 30 feel really useless). Again, although these adjustments are set up in level-ranges they do not affect matchmaking; only the players themselves. We benefit from this by doing stuff like, the first 10 levels get no adjustment. All other groups of 5 levels get a 5% reduction to damage and healing... and certain problematic groups (should they arise) could get their own specific adjustments. This sets us up to respond to reports of balance problems in the future very quickly.

I expect this update to happen this week but can't commit to exactly when just yet.
Thanks again!

- Cinco

[Alexandr_Leopardiks]

May I ask you why did you do these 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 zones? If you really want to do some good for twinks, you should do 1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19 zones and add stuff like tarlok ones, on 5, 10, 15lvls, so everyone in that tier will have same basic items and a bit same stats.
Also you might add stats like on deary ring- the different stats for every level: (tank, amulet) for 15l like 24str 12int 26armor, for 16lvl- 22str, 12int 25armor, etc etc, you may complete my idea by yourselves, I am not sure about right stats. I am about the hole idea of reducing stats of same items for each level in tier.
I hope you will listen to these ideas. It is just like variations of what you may do about balance if you really want to keep 5lvl zones update.
(I wrote it few hours ago but havent had wifi, so I still want to add this idea here)

[Thaze]

Thanks to the STS team for listening and working hard to find the correct solution! :D

[resurrected]

So - a couple of things:

First, a salute to you all for being such good sports about all of these crazy changes! You guys took the high-road all weekend and kept discussions (here, in game and in PM) civil and constructive! We all appreciate having such a loyal and invested community :-)

Second, we are going to return to our old system of matchmaking. Far too many concerns about abandoning hard-won, expensive gear and no good way to fix that. This isn't to say there haven't been tons of great, creative ideas about how to equitably move players within brackets - but there are just too many exceptions in the way of old items, discontinued drops, etc. to make a really rock-solid upscale / downscale system possible.

Lastly, we are going to keep the behind-the-scenes arena modifiers we've been working on over the last few weeks. We were successful in adjusting balance at the highest 'tier' of the game, but had poor results at the teen and 20's (because the adjustments required to make 40 and 50+ gear feel right made the stuff under 30 feel really useless). Again, although these adjustments are set up in level-ranges they do not affect matchmaking; only the players themselves. We benefit from this by doing stuff like, the first 10 levels get no adjustment. All other groups of 5 levels get a 5% reduction to damage and healing... and certain problematic groups (should they arise) could get their own specific adjustments. This sets us up to respond to reports of balance problems in the future very quickly.

I expect this update to happen this week but can't commit to exactly when just yet.
Thanks again!

- Cinco
So you mean we will get back old PvP rooms and nerf again? I don't see really how nerf will help now.

[Muteds]

Thank you for listening to us,
we know sts will do ther best, this new system is good, but this is really going to make up the gap between the players because of the limited items items that have a gem like the.
Once again, thank you :)
my idea:
#Level areas pvp one level up and down
for example, level 1 2 3 - 3 4 5 - 5 6 7 - . . . . . .

[Lawpvp]

So you mean we will get back old PvP rooms and nerf again? I don't see really how nerf will help now.

Yes to old pvp rooms, nerfs are staying as they are currently not the old system where only rogues had damage nerf and tanks had damage buff. I believe he is saying all classes will continue having equal damage nerfs but i think they are playing around with the values more, ex: 1-10 0%, 11-15 5%, 16-20 10%

Kudos to sts for making what i believe to be the right decision. I know you guys were just trying something new that could help you guys balance the nerfs easier and potentially bring more balance to twinks. Although with the concerns that were at hand, im glad a compromise was found.

Ps. As much as i may have railed on some ideas its only because pvp is so fun :D

[resurrected]

Yes to old pvp rooms, nerfs are staying as they are currently not the old system where only rogues had damage nerf and tanks had damage buff. I believe he is saying all classes will continue having equal damage nerfs but i think they are playing around with the values more, ex: 1-10 0%, 11-15 5%, 16-20 10%

Kudos to sts for making what i believe to be the right decision. I know you guys were just trying something new that could help you guys balance the nerfs easier and potentially bring more balance to twinks. Although with the concerns that were at hand, im glad a compromise was found.

I'm fine with rooms. I'm 14 and many of my friends 15 didn't played cause challenge was too easy. I just was upset cause nerf will be back. Grrr.

[Lawpvp]

I'm fine with rooms. I'm 14 and many of my friends 15 didn't played cause challenge was too easy. I just was upset cause nerf will be back. Grrr.

the nerfs were already there, in fact they are lowering the nerfs for u...

[resurrected]

the nerfs were already there, in fact they are lowering the nerfs for u...
I didn't get it. Nerf will be bigger , lower or stay same

[Redjellydonut]

Thank you STS!!! 😭😭😭

[Cons]

Thank you STS!! :banana:

[Upperbound]

With new system of 5% per group of 5 level: so for example the 15 vs 16 and 15 vs 17 will be more balanced: 15 will have 5% nerf and 16-17 will have 10% nerf, right?

[kinzmet]

Alas! In the end we returned to the old match making. I guess the twink community is not ready for the change yet and the tier-bracket system is ahead of its time.
I would suggest if ever they would want to implement it in the future, make sure that :
There is already abundance of the new and powerful twink gears per bracket.
Inform us ahead of time!
New jewels available at twink levels that won't affect the endgame much but comparable to Para and Eye power.



@Cinco, If you guys still want to "test" the tier-bracket then maybe implement it in only one map (say the Blood Beach)? We had three PvP maps after all.

[Zynzyn]

@Cinco, If you guys still want to "test" the tier-bracket then maybe implement it in only one map (say the Blood Beach)? We had three PvP maps after all.

No thanks. The dev's decision regarding returning to the old system for matchmaking is fine. Imo, there is no necessity to enable lvl 15s to kill lvl 11s, in all maps or one. They placed us in Tiers to make balance-adjustments Tier wise. Matchmaking does not need that.

[Otahaanak]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions in gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

[kinzmet]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

This! You took the words out of my head.



Its just that, most of the in-between twinkers are fixated on thier precious gears that they are too stucked to move up. They rather have the hard-won expensive gears and face opponents 1 or 2 levels above than same level fights on new gears.

[Zynzyn]

They rather have the hard-won expensive gears and face opponents 1 or 2 levels above than same level fights on new gears.

Exactly! We twinks rather have our hard-won expensive equipment and face opponents 1-2 levels higher because the gear was hard-won. That is what twinking means - to work hard at maxing our gear for pvp. Suppose all levels had to discard their hard-won gear and play at the same level, nobody would have had a problem because it would have been a change for 100% of pvp players. But the situation now is that only a section of twinks would need to replace their equipment to level up while the other half who are already at 15,20,25,etc have to do absolutely nothing.

I am very happy that devs saw this and decided to stick to the old system for matchmaking. The players who still want a 5 level gap in matchmaking I believe would only want it to get extremely easy kills from players of levels much much lower than them. Regardless of whether I belonged to the half that is already established at the top level of the Tier I dont think such easy kills are any fun. Thumbs up for the upcoming update regarding the Tier system.

[kinzmet]

Exactly! We twinks rather have our hard-won expensive equipment and face opponents 1-2 levels higher because the gear was hard-won. That is what twinking means - to work hard at maxing our gear for pvp. Suppose all levels had to discard their hard-won gear and play at the same level, nobody would have had a problem because it would have been a change for 100% of pvp players. But the situation now is that only a section of twinks would need to replace their equipment to level up while the other half who are already at 15,20,25,etc have to do absolutely nothing.

I am very happy that devs saw this and decided to stick to the old system for matchmaking. The players who still want a 5 level gap in matchmaking I believe would only want it to get extremely easy kills from players of levels much much lower than them. Regardless of whether I belonged to the half that is already established at the top level of the Tier I dont think such easy kills are any fun. Thumbs up for the upcoming update regarding the Tier system.

I beg to differ, twinking means having a low level toon and give it the top gears, gems/jewels and pets. Usually for farming events, haunlet run records and PvP purposes.

There will be no 5 levels gap if everyone would go level up to the top tier of the bracket. Since having everyone to go for the top is the intent of having a tier.


Why stick to old-match making?

To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier gears.
To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier guilds (in cases of L10-11, L15-16 etc).
Scarcity of gears with special gems on top tier per bracket.


Why not?

No real game progress at twinking area, it will remain the same even after years since it was first introduced.
A lot of dramas about PvP figths with uneven level (L10 complain about 12s, L16 about L17 etc)
Some brackets are unpopulated while others are overpopulated. The tier system will lessen the level choices which players have to choose (ever see a thread with "what level is active?"). Instead of choosing from 2 to 20, the choices was lessen to 4 choices bracket 5, 10, 15 and 20. Its a good thing, since it will concentrate the population to 4 divisions, it means more enemies and more guilds.


I'm happy since I can play with my L16 twink again, but unhappy since the twinkers were short-sighted and didn't see what the devs saw for the future.

[Zynzyn]

I beg to differ, twinking means having a low level toon and give it the top gears, gems/jewels and pets. Usually for farming events, haunlet run records and PvP purposes.

There will be no 5 levels gap if everyone would go level up to the top tier of the bracket. Since having everyone to go for the top is the intent of having a tier.


Why stick to old-match making?

To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier gears.
To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier guilds (in cases of L10-11, L15-16 etc).
Scarcity of gears with special gems on top tier per bracket.


Why not?

No real game progress at twinking area, it will remain the same even after years since it was first introduced.
A lot of dramas about PvP figths with uneven level (L10 complain about 12s, L16 about L17 etc)
Some brackets are unpopulated while others are overpopulated. The tier system will lessen the level choices which players have to choose (ever see a thread with "what level is active?"). Instead of choosing from 2 to 20, the choices was lessen to 4 choices bracket 5, 10, 15 and 20. Its a good thing, since it will concentrate the population to 4 divisions, it means more enemies and more guilds.




The intent of the Tier as is obvious in the post by Cinco is now only for balance adjustments. And it is perfect this way.

We are sticking to the old match making to prevent a scenario where one level at the top farms people 5 levels below them. As simple as that. As for your claim that this enables twinks to stick to their gear, I should remind that as per your wished system, "new gear" will not be for everyone, only half of the twinks will have to start from scratch while the other half )top levels of the tier will have a very convenient position where they are able to farm extreme low-levels. (For example 15 1-shotting 11s.) No thank you.

I am done posting to you since we have already received official confirmation about this. I do request and encourage sts to release better gear in future events and caps which can be used by everyone and which everyone has equal opportunity to acquire.

[Lawpvp]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions in gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

Endgamere have to replace their gear because they are lvling up, twinks are not. As soon as arcane ring is replaced as the best lvl 41 ring(since this is now a twinking level too lvl 41 gear should progress with other twink levels aswell)they can replace twink gear and ill be fine with having to "progress". You cant pick and choose levels that should have gear progrss, either all twink levels or none of them. Til then, dont bother

[Otahaanak]

Sure they can. Easy. All pvp is done at 5,10,15,20, etc. if you want to compete effectively, then you'd best be one of those levels. It's simple. No one would stay at 11, as you point out, because it would be suicide, or they would have to arrange 11 only matches.

I just think most here don't see the forest for the trees. The issue is about ONE thing - gear. People asking , just like at endgame (sometimes) to be able to level up and trade their gear in for upgraded versions for the new level cause they spent a ton of gold on it? And that's the only argument against the 5 level tiers. It's about being OP at their current level and wanting to stay that way.

My opinion, nothing more.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

[Lawpvp]

Sure they can. Easy. All pvp is done at 5,10,15,20, etc. if you want to compete effectively, then you'd best be one of those levels. It's simple. No one would stay at 11, as you point out, because it would be suicide, or they would have to arrange 11 only matches.

I just think most here don't see the forest for the trees. The issue is about ONE thing - gear. People asking , just like at endgame (sometimes) to be able to level up and trade their gear in for upgraded versions for the new level cause they spent a ton of gold on it? And that's the only argument against the 5 level tiers. It's about being OP at their current level and wanting to stay that way.

My opinion, nothing more.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

o really thats the only argument against it? i guess u didnt read 95% of this thread if your making that claim. Go to page 3 and read my long post then come say thats the only argument against it.

[Earlingstad]

Sure they can. Easy. All pvp is done at 5,10,15,20, etc. if you want to compete effectively, then you'd best be one of those levels. It's simple. No one would stay at 11, as you point out, because it would be suicide, or they would have to arrange 11 only matches.

You probably play at lvl 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. Got your point that you need all twinks to play those levels. But really....almost blackmailing players to level up by tossing them in a matchmaking of 11-15 or 16-20? Not happening.

Instead you can maybe make more friends and ask them to join you at your bracket of pvp, convince them how awesome your bracket is etc so that on their own players go level up. :kiwi-fruit:

Personally I am not fond of certain brackets which have been known to be toxic. Gear is not the issue here. Abundance of premium-gemmed gear in auction. Even if I were handed the best pvp gear for free I would not level up to play there. And certain brackets are less populated than others only because of gang/block/trashtalk or the lack of them.

[kinzmet]

Sure they can. Easy. All pvp is done at 5,10,15,20, etc. if you want to compete effectively, then you'd best be one of those levels. It's simple. No one would stay at 11, as you point out, because it would be suicide, or they would have to arrange 11 only matches.

I just think most here don't see the forest for the trees. The issue is about ONE thing - gear. People asking , just like at endgame (sometimes) to be able to level up and trade their gear in for upgraded versions for the new level cause they spent a ton of gold on it? And that's the only argument against the 5 level tiers. It's about being OP at their current level and wanting to stay that way.

My opinion, nothing more.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

I'm out of thanks, but what you said is true.


You probably play at lvl 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. Got your point that you need all twinks to play those levels. But really....almost blackmailing players to level up by tossing them in a matchmaking of 11-15 or 16-20? Not happening.

Instead you can maybe make more friends and ask them to join you at your bracket of pvp, convince them how awesome your bracket is etc so that on their own players go level up. :kiwi-fruit:

Personally I am not fond of certain brackets which have been known to be toxic. Gear is not the issue here. Abundance of premium-gemmed gear in auction. Even if I were handed the best pvp gear for free I would not level up to play there. And certain brackets are less populated than others only because of gang/block/trashtalk or the lack of them.

Nobody is blackmailing anybody here, we argue on or ideas but in the end we are all twinks playing the same game we love. The devs already give an official announcement about the matter we just shared our feeds and ague about it. BTW you you can't say a bracket is less populated if there were gangs and blocks, because you need people to gang and block which means its very populated. I play at L16, its populated with alot of blocks, gangs and trashtalks, but its not the issue here. PvP is like that in any MMO, in AL there is the 'Ignore' feature for that.

[Otahaanak]

o really thats the only argument against it? i guess u didnt read 95% of this thread if your making that claim. Go to page 3 and read my long post then come say thats the only argument against it.

Law, I've read the thread. I have no axe to grind with you or twinks in general. Just stating my opinion is all. And it's still what I think.

The 5 level system was proposed by STS not me. So no Blackmail or anything else going on here either as the other poster suggested. STS has already stated they are keeping the old pairing system, so you guys should be happy. Personally I think it's a mistake, that's all.

STS changed things at endgame because it was becoming impossible to compete without spending a ton of money. They recognized this and made changes resulting in an influx of new players. I think this 5 level system was an attempt to do the same. Perhaps they have other things to present here in the future. We'll just have to wait and see.

Just one thing I hope the whole twink community remembers: you guys are often the first exposure many new players have to PVP - and their experience can make or break that new player's desire to continue with the game. Keeping the system closed to a few select players who dominate PVP at twink levels doesn't help IMO.

[Lawpvp]

Law, I've read the thread. I have no axe to grind with you or twinks in general. Just stating my opinion is all. And it's still what I think.

The 5 level system was proposed by STS not me. So no Blackmail or anything else going on here either as the other poster suggested. STS has already stated they are keeping the old pairing system, so you guys should be happy. Personally I think it's a mistake, that's all.

STS changed things at endgame because it was becoming impossible to compete without spending a ton of money. They recognized this and made changes resulting in an influx of new players. I think this 5 level system was an attempt to do the same. Perhaps they have other things to present here in the future. We'll just have to wait and see.

Just one thing I hope the whole twink community remembers: you guys are often the first exposure many new players have to PVP - and their experience can make or break that new player's desire to continue with the game. Keeping the system closed to a few select players who dominate PVP at twink levels doesn't help IMO.

No your not "just" stating your opinion. You claimed the one and only only reason people were against the system is that they want to stay op at their current level. This is downright false and shows either ignorance(im not saying your ignorant, used to mean "lack of information") with regards to what people issues were with the system or your simply ignoring what they are saying and lying about how many reasons there are. Since i didnt want to jump to the latter conclusion, i referred u read through the thread again. I take no issue with your opinion, i think its valid and others share that opinion. What i take issue with is that u said there was only 1 reason people were against the tier system when in fact there was a multitude of reasons.

[kinzmet]

I don't like how this is turning out. Since the devs already give an official statement, thats that then.
I would want to keep the discussions if ever the thread don't derail and start a flamewar. Adieu!

[Cinco]

Nothing more to discuss. Thanks for the feedback.