Suggestion: Removing K/D Leaderboard

[KingFu]

Hello,

May be old news, but it's been brought to my attention that in the future, PL will be getting the feature that's being brought to SL: When XP is locked, no kills are gained. I personally hate this idea, the reason behind it is to prevent people from getting on boards by farming kills in fathom as a level 27 or in LE as a 32, correct? I don't see the use in it personally. People can do the same exact thing (only easier) with the PvP boards, and they do. There isn't anything being done to try and prevent that.

I think the easiest thing to do would be just to remove the KD boards, if they make it so locked XP equals no kills, then won't the boards be almost frozen? Won't it take ages, if ever for those people to be knocked off by those who aren't twinks/don't have XP locked?

I personally don't have Alts specifically for ratio, I have twinks that I farm with that have little or no deaths, yes, but I don't just clear mobs and leave. I see it as, a kill is a kill. It's fun to see your kills go up, and achieve, 6, 7, 8 K kills. Like my freind said, it's more of a self achievement. Twinking is extremely popular, and I see this Implement as favoring end game.

Another idea is to have leaderboards go by level range. If you're on a level 1-5 alt, it shows the level 1-5 leader boarders, 6-10 shows levels 6-10 etc.

If they lock PvE kills for twinks, why not lock PvP as well? I don't see it as being much different. A twink is made for PvP or PvE purposes. Also, why won't deaths be locked?

I don't see any use for leader boards personally, may just be me, but I only find it boosting egos and an achievement for you to try and get when you're bored and don't want to farm. I don't see it as being any different from if they decided to make it so level 56 players can't get kills.

Sorry if this is rantish/rude/contradicting/badly worded, wrote it in a rush. I'm just really irked by the thought of this being implemented...

Thanks!

-Mystical

[Kraze]

I've never cared for the idea of leader boards myself. I remember talking with you about it Myst a year ago before the were added to pl. However IMO the new system being added for sl is a huge improvement. It's no secret I'm not a big fan of twinks but I get why they became popular. Low level gear can be quite profitable. Also I can see how taking a break from harder maps and playing with a secondary char may be fun for some. However a leader board should be like a high score on an old arcade game. You may be really good at clearing the first board but you will never hit the 1,000,000 point mark without playing the harder levels.

[zuesmirza]

I agree with you

[CrimsonTider]

I have thought about this since Phys brought this up a few weeks ago. My conclusion: if it aint broke then dont try to fix it. What I mean by that is simple: the current system has existed for over a year now and only now are changes being implemented. No matter what changes are made, people will find a way around it. Those DYING to be on pve boards can easily start a new character, use 3x damage pots, and solo their way to 61. In pvp, unless the use of multiple devices is discouraged, pvp leaderboards will never be truly honest.

I see the arguments on both sides and in my own opinion, I dont care. I have toons with horrible kdr and toons made for leaderboards. After 65k kills (thru leveling a 52), I grew tired of the grinding and soending so much time by myself. I need peeps!! Others like doing this, that is what makes us unique.

In the end, this "issue" will never be "fixed." You will either have twinks running up the leaderboards or endgame players spending hours soloing. IMO, the TEAM/COMMUNITY aspect of PL is what sets it apart from other games. If endgamers begin soloing to gain leaderbord immortality, you kill the "community" feel.

Anyway, my two cents. I would rather see devs spending time on game content than controlling a number that actually proves nothing.

SIDE NOTE: Do you ever sleep Kraze??????

[superglut2]

leaderboards lvl range pls

[Lesrider]

leaderboards lvl range pls

How would that work? People could still spend eight months farming FH before moving on to the harder areas and lvling properly. Unless freezing xp would lock you at a level permanently, I don't see how it would be possible to have leaderboards by level.

[KingFu]

How would that work? People could still spend eight months farming FH before moving on to the harder areas and lvling properly. Unless freezing xp would lock you at a level permanently, I don't see how it would be possible to have leaderboards by level.

That actually isn't a bad idea, but I can see a lot of whining coming from it:/

[Physiologic]

Eliminating the leaderboards is a bit too extreme...placing way too many levels on a leaderboard will make it very cluttered even with tabs for each level range. I don't see how twinks should have any position on the leaderboards at all - I'm sure if the devs figure it out, they can calculate a percentage of how many dedicated low leveled twinks exist compared to "regular" levelers, i.e. people who play for cap without locking XP. I'd say twinks make up <5% of the total population in PL.

[Pman3255]

Wow read the whole thing that's a great idea. I also agree with the deaths are sort of dumb on leaderboards.

[Gluttony]

This isn't quote "old" news, but the issue has been discussed at length on Phys' thread. Though it pains me to say it (his suggestion is a better solution than this one, Imo). I have nothing new to say about the current fix so here is what I said then:


If the LB is filled with boosters then why not just get rid of the LB completely? It serves no real purpose except for self gratification. Most agree that the kdr doesn't make the player and since there is no real way to determine if the kills were farmed in FH or repeat CtK runs we can all agree that it's not impressing anyone once they find out how it's done. I know that when I had no deaths, I was accused of being a coward and just exiting the map before I could be killed; so I was booted from multiple games because of my kdr. There is never really going to be a way to prove just how the LB status was achieved, so why bother even having one?

As for this solution it may help the kdr booster epidemic, but it won't stop anyone from hitting the kill LB with their level 12 FH farming. Also, there are only 3 LB categories, removing one would leave only kills and deaths. Finally, if the LB is gone then the only way for people who get any type of recognition for their kills vs deaths is for them to either brag or someone to actually take the time to look at their stat screen. We can all pretty much agree that the number of kills or even the number of deaths doesn't make the player, so I say again, remove the LB completely.

[Physiologic]

There really isn't a great single solution at all. But think of it in a developer's point of view - removing any aspect in the game has got to be the very last option, when all else fails. Time and effort was placed to create the Leaderboards (algorithm, design, specific functionality) in the first place, and its very easy for us to say "oh just get rid of it" since we didn't do the work. Continuing to tweak an aspect should be done over and over until its just right - just like tuning a car, or working on a patient's dosing regimen. We can't exactly call it quits and discard it completely just because it hasn't been working right. At least, that's how I think of the whole principle of the matter.

[Gluttony]

There really isn't a great single solution at all. But think of it in a developer's point of view - removing any aspect in the game has got to be the very last option, when all else fails. Time and effort was placed to create the Leaderboards (algorithm, design, specific functionality) in the first place, and its very easy for us to say "oh just get rid of it" since we didn't do the work. Continuing to tweak an aspect should be done over and over until its just right - just like tuning a car, or working on a patient's dosing regimen. We can't exactly call it quits and discard it completely just because it hasn't been working right. At least, that's how I think of the whole principle of the matter.

This begs the question, what is the point of the LB? If it simply "hasn't been working right," what is the aim of the LB?

Follow-up question: What's the point of being able to lock xp if not to be able to get more kills at a certain level? I understand there is the pvp aspect, but is locking xp simply just to keep a toon at a certain level strictly for pvp and nothing else? It would seem that if we make kills obsolete after locking xp, we would also nullify the point of being able to do so in the first place.

[Physiologic]

You could say the same thing about high scores in retro arcade games...they started it :banana:

And honestly, I'm not sure when or why Disable XP was implemented; when I started playing PL back in Dec 2010, that option has always existed and to my knowledge, its been added in the past because some players wanted to keep their twinks at certain levels. We could just get rid of Disable XP altogether but that would probably piss a lot of people off, which is why I mentioned disabling kills as well. Had I been there when Disable XP was about to be implemented, I would've been against it, as that is the main reason why Leaderboards has been so skewed. Foresight is never 20/20.

[Gluttony]

So you're basically saying that you believe the LB is more important than twinking; that one's kill to death ratio is more important than being able to host a tourney for any toons other than level 55-56? The LB is around for simple competition (just as high scores in retro arcade games) and nothing more. No grand prize for the winner, just bragging rights. I fail to see how that is more important than people being a bit bored with a game that they have to resort to creating a level one organization or having a level 15 twink FFA.

[Physiologic]

So you're basically saying that you believe the LB is more important than twinking; that one's kill to death ratio is more important than being able to host a tourney for any toons other than level 55-56? The LB is around for simple competition (just as high scores in retro arcade games) and nothing more. No grand prize for the winner, just bragging rights. I fail to see how that is more important than people being a bit bored with a game that they have to resort to creating a level one organization or having a level 15 twink FFA.

In short, yes.

[SUPAPRODIGY]

How many Threads is there about this not sure well i think they should leave as it is you can stop your EXP and keep getting kills i personally do it myself all because when my friends are offline i got something to do :rolleyes:

[Conradin]

Leaderboards are Bad imo. Pvp rewards are what we need, not LB.

[WhoIsThis]

Leaderboards are Bad imo. Pvp rewards are what we need, not LB.

People do need something to aspire to.

But the K/D leaderboard is just well, unrealistic.

[MightyMicah]

If you want my full opinion refer to my thread "all this boosting" Abbreviated, here is what i think, Remove the k/d ratio LB, and make anyone who locks xp receive 1/2 kill instead of 1 kill. It's not that difficult.

[KingFu]

If you want my full opinion refer to my thread "all this boosting" Abbreviated, here is what i think, Remove the k/d ratio LB, and make anyone who locks xp receive 1/2 kill instead of 1 kill. It's not that difficult.

What would be the point of 1/2 rather than 1/1 if K/D boards were removed? I'd settle for that though, easily...

[Mothwing]

Imo, leaderboards are stupid. I never even look at them. I mean, do people really care about being on the leaderboards? Who even looks at it anyway and say, OMG LOOK! HES ON THE LEADERBOARD! Not important especially in PVE. Now PVP, i think there should be a special board ingame just for that.

[KingFu]

Imo, leaderboards are stupid. I never even look at them. I mean, do people really care about being on the leaderboards? Who even looks at it anyway and say, OMG LOOK! HES ON THE LEADERBOARD! Not important especially in PVE. Now PVP, i think there should be a special board ingame just for that.

Nah, pvp board is boosters (KD), and people that pvp a ton. Also the kills encourage people to rush. Ive been on pvp boards on 2 Alts and it wasn't much else outside of a self accomplishment, and a raising of the ego. In reality, it's like, cool, my names on a list with 30 different people for those who care enough to look can see. PvP rewards would be far better IMO. I don't see anything out of boards that players get other than "that's a lot of kills/deaths"

[Mothwing]

Idk just seems pointless to have PVE boards imo. Anybody can do that with the right gear and skills. Especially high level players. Just go down to the ol' FH and do some runs for a month 24/7. That should get you up there. Not much of an accomplishment i think.

[Xymorg]

Another easy fix without a full removal would be an option to have your leaderboard filtered by your friends list or by characters currently online.

This would keep the sort of fun aspects of seeing where you rank, but only among ppl you care about. Let's face it, the leaderboards are really only fun when it's got ppl you know involved. A static list of 5 guys you don't know that set records when the rules were different is not very compelling.

[Mothwing]

I like that idea better ;) see how good you are stacked up against your friends

[Xymorg]

Ya, I just looked again for the first time since Anglfyr told me she made it & the ppl on your friends list are already highlighted on the boards. Seems like if it already designates your friends list it wouldn't be that hard to show query result so designated :)

[MightyMicah]

As far as I can see, the big problem we have is Jealousy. What else would motivate people to shut down all the low level twinks? The thought that "they really suck but everyone thinks they're awesome." Can no one see that this will be a big blow to PL? If kills are disabled you can be sure tons of people will leave the game. If leaderboard can only be achieved grinding in the infamous glitchy sewers then anyone who doesnt wanna do that will lose their point to this game. The only people who will stay are those who dont care about the leaderboard or those who are still leveling to 56. Btw please read my thread "all this boosting" i believe i have a very indepth explanation as of what actions should be taken. Not trying to flame, just trying to find the root problem in all this.

[KingFu]

As far as I can see, the big problem we have is Jealousy. What else would motivate people to shut down all the low level twinks? The thought that "they really suck but everyone thinks they're awesome." Can no one see that this will be a big blow to PL? If kills are disabled you can be sure tons of people will leave the game. If leaderboard can only be achieved grinding in the infamous glitchy sewers then anyone who doesnt wanna do that will lose their point to this game. The only people who will stay are those who dont care about the leaderboard or those who are still leveling to 56. Btw please read my thread "all this boosting" i believe i have a very indepth explanation as of what actions should be taken. Not trying to flame, just trying to find the root problem in all this.

Don't forgot the fact KD leader boards would be practically frozen. Who can top 100 something K kills and no deaths without making a twink/stopping XP to farm kills? It'd be very difficult to break 100K kills and no deaths by regular leveling, thus freezing the board.

[MightyMicah]

I agree 100%, except for the rich kid who does potion runs till hes not rich anymore lol. So maybe 99%