Should Death have Consequences?

[IBNobody]

Right now, dying is easy and free. You come back at ~30% health and may have to hike back to your team.

Should the game be changed so that death has more of a bite? If so, how would you do it? If not, why do you feel that way?

[JaytB]

I think it's more than enough of a 'bite' that your deaths counts, even if your kills don't (when in lower lvl dungeons) :)

[Silentarrow]

I don't agree, death already affects your KD, which to some players means a lot.

[Kraze]

I don't agree, death already affects your KD, which to some players means a lot.
Why is k/d such a big deal? It's not always a reflection of skill. Just seems like the most overrated stat outside of dps...

[StompArtist]

I debated this a while ago and I do think that deaths should have consequences beyond k/d ratio for the simple fact that the majority of players couldn't care less about it...

I strongly believe that dying should make you loose all drops and cash acquired since the instance started at a minimum. This would prevent suicidal players from gaining for the behavior instead of having to fine tune and perfect their skills.

[CrimsonTider]

I debated this a while ago and I do think that deaths should have consequences beyond k/d ratio for the simple fact that the majority of players couldn't care less about it...

I strongly believe that dying should make you loose all drops and cash acquired since the instance started at a minimum. This would prevent suicidal players from gaining for the behavior instead of having to fine tune and perfect their skills.

So some random player comes into Stronghold, rounds up a mob, and blasts all the barrels causing your team to die. You would be ok with losing the opportunity to get a fury shield? OR... You are fighting GF and get a lag spike duevto avtext or phone call causing you to die, you are willing to give up the potential of a pink? I think not.

Deaths dont always happen due to poor skill. The best of us die. Clear answer is to leave it alone.

[Tvis]

I can see new players quitting because they can't manage to stay alive long enough to get a useful item or keep anything in inventory. Losing makes quitters quit, while winning makes players stay, in general of course.

[StompArtist]

So some random player comes into Stronghold, rounds up a mob, and blasts all the barrels causing your team to die. You would be ok with losing the opportunity to get a fury shield? OR... You are fighting GF and get a lag spike duevto avtext or phone call causing you to die, you are willing to give up the potential of a pink? I think not.


Yes I am ok with all this. Games should not be designed after lag-spikes and phone calls. Deaths should have consequences, deaths with no hard consequences is paramount to being immortal. I realize that my view of the consequences may be harsh to some of you but I am quite sure that their is plenty of mid ground between loosing gear from current instance and not having any repercussion at all.

(and yes, I do realize that I am on the loosing side of this argument since this is a casual game but the no repercussion for death DOES encourage sloppy gameplay).

[Kraze]

And sloppy gameplay encourages one way tickets via the size 12 express

[kamikazees]

And sloppy gameplay encourages one way tickets via the size 12 express
+1 rep. Haha!

[Derajdefyre]

Consequences in games make the games less popular. Why do you think gaming is so much more widespread than it used to be? Games used to be really freaking hard. Only nerds were able to comprehend them enough to have fun. Later some big time investors with better comprehension of marketing to the masses came along and said to the nerd game developers "make games easier so more people like them and I can get even more rich." Try playing any old NES, SNES, or Genesis game. I saw this kid not long ago bragging about how he easily beat every video game he ever played. I gave him the original Mega Man. He couldn't get out of the very first room of the Elec Man stage. He died over and over then quit.

Let's face it, games are more fun when there is less punishment. Even old school hardcore gamers like me agree. I loved Mario 3, but today I would never play a game where I could play for hours just to get to the final boss then lose my last life and have to start all over from the beginning. That is extreme, but you said just at a minimum have someone lose xp and loot from the one dungeon. That doesn't sound so bad, right? Except what if that person just so happened to get the one item they had been searching for for hours before the RNG graced them with their prize? What if that person had bought an elixir and now their real life money has been stolen from them because of a lag spike?

Star Legends is casual friendly and I want it to stay that way. If you want to play a game with consequences, play EverQuest and think to yourself why MMORPGs don't take away 1-2 hours of hard grinding worth of experience when you die anymore.

[Conradin]

How about like in WOW where you gear degrades?? It could be every 10 deaths you gear degrades a little, and once you've died 50 times it's unusable until you fix it. Any blacksmith (crafting person) could fix it for a small amout. You can fix it any time it's damaged. It costs more to fix it after 30 deaths than 10, etc. At endgame- it might cost you 10-50k or more to fix a custom recurve, while it costs 3-15k on a crystalline staff. Also a message sayig how and were to fix your armor could pop up the first time- it would show you where, and have a go-to button to take you to a forger. Your first fix would be free aswell. Vanities wouldn't degrade.


Oh and I think this should only be for pinks.

[bronislav84]

Con's idea ain't bad, but I think it should be for all gear on both games. K/d isn't enough of a consequence for the majority of people who play. Oh wow, I died. Back to the fight to die 20 to 50 more times, but at least the boss is dead. That's how the majority play. This consequence means nothing to them.

The k/d count only bothers rankers or people who hate dieing, like me. I hope to rank in SL but would be perfectly satisfied with just a clean death count.

[StompArtist]

Con's idea ain't bad, but I think it should be for all gear on both games. K/d isn't enough of a consequence for the majority of people who play. Oh wow, I died. Back to the fight to die 20 to 50 more times, but at least the boss is dead. That's how the majority play. This consequence means nothing to them.

The k/d count only bothers rankers or people who hate dieing, like me. I hope to rank in SL but would be perfectly satisfied with just a clean death count.

I like the idea... It would probably be lots of coding but gear could deteriorate towards grey unless repaired.

[Moogerfooger]

It ain't broke. Leave it alone. This is not WoW.

[Arterra]

It's not that I don't care about deaths. Any char that played the un-nerfed ao3 got to maybe 1k deaths easily, and since then I have seen the stats mean less and less.
However, this game offers no real punishment due to it being a casual game built on a platform with iffy connection at times and interruptions: mobile devices.
Face it, no matter how much content devs add on to please the hardcore masses, PL is a casual mmorpg. You can spam potions, skills, and run thru dungeons easily with a full party. The only area right now truly built to hardcore is shadow caves, and that only because mass pot spamming won't save you and mass skill spamming will kill you.

Armor deterioration would be better suited for a game that focuses more on crafting and supplies, which means that it might be viable for SL due to all the crafting supplies we are getting... White and orange supplies for repair and green to pink supplies for upgrading!
However PL is your standard overpowered-hero-kills-everything game, and higher death punishment is not necessary. The run from the start all the way to the death spot is enough, and so is the risk of losing out on drops or xp while party moves on.

[SUPAPRODIGY]

It's not that I don't care about deaths. Any char that played the un-nerfed ao3 got to maybe 1k deaths easily, and since then I have seen the stats meander and less.
However, this game offers no real punishment due to it being a casual game built on a platform with iffy connection at times and interruptions: mobile devices.
Face it, no matter how much content devs add on to please the hardcore masses, PL is a casual mmorpg. You can spam potions, skills, and run thru dungeons easily with a full party. The only area right now truly built to hardcore is shadow caves, and that only because mass pot spamming won't save you and mass skill spamming will kill you.

Armor deterioration would be better suited for a game that focuses more on crafting and supplies, which means that it might be viable for SL due to all the crafting supplies we are getting... White and orange supplies for repair and green to pink supplies for upgrading!
However PL is your standard overpowered-hero-kills-everything game, and higher death punishment is not necessary. The run from the start all the way to the death spot is enough, and so is the risk of losing out on drops or xp while party moves on.

Coulnt have said better myself and i dont die very much im addict in buying potions hehe

[Kraze]

Con's idea ain't bad, but I think it should be for all gear on both games. K/d isn't enough of a consequence for the majority of people who play. Oh wow, I died. Back to the fight to die 20 to 50 more times, but at least the boss is dead. That's how the majority play. This consequence means nothing to them.

The k/d count only bothers rankers or people who hate dieing, like me. I hope to rank in SL but would be perfectly satisfied with just a clean death count.
Uh idk some people seen to have lost their minds about deaths (iOS player so forgive pl only reference) but today in a fight against queen in a party of 4 birds 1 bear one of the birds switched to an auto bow and would only auto attack because he didn't want to waste pots or risk a death...I've never wished I was the host more >8^(

[Sorcererssoul]

Yeah this is no hardcore game.
This is just a game to play when you have a free minute for most of us
I know that alot of players play hardcore but thats not really the use of this game.
And yeah, deaths need to be left how they are atm, because players like me and many others dont want an bad k/d.

[CrimsonTider]

Sorry Stomp but your logic doesnt make sense. The boot button was created for a reason. It makes NO sense to punish many for the sins of a few.

[StompArtist]

Would you take the same risks if deaths actually had consequences?

[Kraze]

Would you take the same risks if deaths actually had consequences?
I would... As pointed out in my prior post plenty of cowards already

[CrimsonTider]

Would you take the same risks if deaths actually had consequences?

Consequences = lack of leaders. We already have tons who duck before entering a room, bears who can't crowd control, and tons of players with no concept of skill usage. These consequences would lead to an increawe of individuals running from mobs instead of attacking.

Should also point out it would be easier to leave and remake following a death which would lead to a decrease in team numbers. Again, leading to more deaths. A vicious cycle PL doesn't need.

[Moogerfooger]

Would you take the same risks if deaths actually had consequences?

Your idea would just create a generation of auto-attack cowards. Great idea, let's make the game worse and the general skill of the general population lower/risk-aversive.

Respectfully...one of worst ideas I have seen on forums (in general, not directed at anybody)

[StompArtist]

Your idea would just create a generation of auto-attack cowards. Great idea, let's make the game worse and the general skill of the general population lower/risk-aversive.
Respectfully...one of worst ideas I have seen on forums.

Nope. I have had worst ideas :D

The problem I currently see is that players who spend no time improving skills or strategy can easily achieve the exact same results as players who spend the time and try and improve their gameplay. If deaths have no consequences I do not know how to fix this... Perhaps this is all good for everyone except me as well so I may be on my own on this. No big deal, the game is still fun. lol

[Breadkeeper]

Yes I am ok with all this. Games should not be designed after lag-spikes and phone calls.

This would be true if the game was not played on a phone...
If i lost hours of work because my phone rang and i died, while playing a game ment to be played on said phone, i would deleate that game as it would be even more of a time waster then it is.

[bronislav84]

I understand what Stomp is saying. Deaths mean zilch to most people, so people have no self preservation instinct beyond just pot spam. Some people don't even do that. You know, there's more than that. You could just, I dunno, run to reset the mobs to try again.

And people say low/zero death players don't try. Some of us try MORE than people who just let their character die instead of attempting to survive to fight again or run and gun (Kiting).

Incentivise self preservation, I say. How about the more kills you get between deaths, the more bonus XP or money you can get? Dieing resets the bonus counter.

Con's idea ain't bad, but I think it should be for all gear on both games. K/d isn't enough of a consequence for the majority of people who play. Oh wow, I died. Back to the fight to die 20 to 50 more times, but at least the boss is dead. That's how the majority play. This consequence means nothing to them.

The k/d count only bothers rankers or people who hate dieing, like me. I hope to rank in SL but would be perfectly satisfied with just a clean death count.
Uh idk some people seen to have lost their minds about deaths (iOS player so forgive pl only reference) but today in a fight against queen in a party of 4 birds 1 bear one of the birds switched to an auto bow and would only auto attack because he didn't want to waste pots or risk a death...I've never wished I was the host more >8^(Do you remember what his death count was? Maybe be was just tired? I do that with my bird too, but only if a mob is close to expiring. Why waste mana on a near dead mob?

[Arterra]

Would you take the same risks if deaths actually had consequences?


In a game like PL I don't want to be constantly tiptoeing around... Fine for solo, but that is a reason I don't solo xD

[Kraze]

]Do you remember what his death count was? Maybe be was just tired? I do that with my bird too, but only if a mob is close to expiring. Why waste mana on a near dead mob?
I don't care what his death count was or if he was tired switching to a xbow and auto only on an entire boss fight because you don't want to die is not ok. But some players are so worried about the almighty ratios the leave the whole team hanging out to dry. As this is already an issue making deaths mean something would only make the issue worse.

[Moogerfooger]

I understand what Stomp is saying. Deaths mean zilch to most people, so people have no self preservation instinct beyond just pot spam. Some people don't even do that. You know, there's more than that. You could just, I dunno, run to reset the mobs to try again.

And people say low/zero death players don't try. Some of us try MORE than people who just let their character die instead of attempting to survive to fight again or run and gun (Kiting).

Incentivise self preservation, I say. How about the more kills you get between deaths, the more bonus XP or money you can get? Dieing resets the bonus counter.

Not directed at you personally, but in general.

You are fooling yourself if you think that this will inspire the general PL player, many many of whom (some very good) are not on the forums or are purely casual players, into some kind of drive to become better players. I'd be willing to bet good money that a much higher percentage will just turn into run-around-and-don't-die-screw-my-runmates or auto-attacking zombies more concerned with not getting aggro or dying in general to preserve their precious k/d ratio (or not to lose gold) than trying to get better. I see it in PUGs all the time as it is now. Sure, some players might strive to get better, but again...bet you way more wouldn't. And it would deter a lot of casual players who nonetheless spend plat. If you think STS, especially in light of recent plat developments over the last few months, will do a single thing to risk discourage the casual player from playing or continuing to play/spend plat, I have an excellent bridge with a waterfront view in the Sahara Desert to sell you ;) especially not just to satisfy an unfortunately small group of hardcore players.

I do kinda like your bonus XP idea though....hadn't ever seen anyone directly mention it that I can remember (although I forget my own phone number sometimes).

[Kraze]

The problem with xp bonus idea us by nature the "hardcore" are min/maxers. Most bang for smallest effort. And this would be easily exploited.
Just got done doing some vl runs for totems. Still don't think this is a good idea however it did make me realize there should be a penalty for killing your team when you aoe traps and barrels. Something like a loss of 100 cool points or an auto boot/time out for 5 minutes to think about what you just did. Just my thought

[bronislav84]

]Do you remember what his death count was? Maybe be was just tired? I do that with my bird too, but only if a mob is close to expiring. Why waste mana on a near dead mob?
I don't care what his death count was or if he was tired switching to a xbow and auto only on an entire boss fight because you don't want to die is not ok. But some players are so worried about the almighty ratios the leave the whole team hanging out to dry. As this is already an issue making deaths mean something would only make the issue worse.I agree it's not ok to do that, especially for birds who's job it is to break armor for the party. Probably was badly geared or a full attack bird who didn't wanna draw agro in a random group, when he's used to a bear drawing agro for him. Otherwise no clue. Why am I defending this guy? *shuts up*

I understand what Stomp is saying. Deaths mean zilch to most people, so people have no self preservation instinct beyond just pot spam. Some people don't even do that. You know, there's more than that. You could just, I dunno, run to reset the mobs to try again.

And people say low/zero death players don't try. Some of us try MORE than people who just let their character die instead of attempting to survive to fight again or run and gun (Kiting).

Incentivise self preservation, I say. How about the more kills you get between deaths, the more bonus XP or money you can get? Dieing resets the bonus counter.

Not directed at you personally, but in general.

You are fooling yourself if you think that this will inspire the general PL player, many many of whom (some very good) are not on the forums or are purely casual players, into some kind of drive to become better players. I'd be willing to bet good money that a much higher percentage will just turn into run-around-and-don't-die-screw-my-runmates or auto-attacking zombies more concerned with not getting aggro or dying in general to preserve their precious k/d ratio (or not to lose gold) than trying to get better. I see it in PUGs all the time as it is now. Sure, some players might strive to get better, but again...bet you way more wouldn't. And it would deter a lot of casual players who nonetheless spend plat. If you think STS, especially in light of recent plat developments over the last few months, will do a single thing to risk discourage the casual player from playing or continuing to play/spend plat, I have an excellent bridge with a waterfront view in the Sahara Desert to sell you ;) especially not just to satisfy an unfortunately small group of hardcore players.

I do kinda like your bonus XP idea though....hadn't ever seen anyone directly mention it that I can remember (although I forget my own phone number sometimes).Don't worry, I usually don't take things personally, or ask if it seems personal.

As for STS, it's their games. We just play and are suggesting things. Who knows? They may like it. As long as they don't make plat required, I'll be happy. I'd like to stretch my plat as far as I can.

But yea, I figure add a positive incentive to keep a character alive. I think it should be both XP and money though, cause then it would be worthless to capped characters. Doesn't have to be these, but having X kills between deaths giving some kind of bonus is a nice incentive.
The problem with xp bonus idea us by nature the "hardcore" are min/maxers. Most bang for smallest effort. And this would be easily exploited.
Just got done doing some vl runs for totems. Still don't think this is a good idea however it did make me realize there should be a penalty for killing your team when you aoe traps and barrels. Something like a loss of 100 cool points or an auto boot/time out for 5 minutes to think about what you just did. Just my thoughtOk cap it at like 20% to 50% bonus to XP and money. Nothing too overpowering. Good? It isn't realty exploitable since it wouldn't be as strong as elixir. Just something to make people wanna not let their character die besides k/d.

[Raulur]

It ain't broke. Leave it alone. This is not WoW.

I agree. I might be ok with some exp loss if it is not too harsh. Nothing more.