End of twinking?

[Gluttony]

I have always been against the choice that locking xp will disable kills, but got over it when I thought it was only intended for SL. Now that this change has been carted over to PL, I have to say that I'm quite a bit more distraught over it than I thought I would be, and I don't think I'm alone.

Now if you're new to twinking you should know that there is a large organization strictly for level 1 twinks you can read more about it HERE (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?24038-Official-Level-One-Farm-and-PvP-Organization) So it's pretty established, not to mention the gear only available via plat store that is now pretty useless imo.


No point in kill farmers anymore, as characters with xp turned off no longer gain kill stats# We want the leaderboards to mean something beyond who can farm the most with xp turned off.

So now how about the suggestion huh? I would never go against a GoA (you can read how this all got implemented HERE (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?31039-Exaggerated-Leaderboards-and-Kill-Boosting-on-Star-Legends-This-must-be-prevented)), but this idea never really hit home with me since it was all about getting meaning out of the leaderboard. My suggestion is that once xp is disabled then the toon is removed from the LB completely, never to be returned even is xp enabled again. I think this would serve as a dual purpose since the LB is pretty stuck as it is; it's going to be pretty impossible for anyone to catch some of the highest kill/death leaders without being able to disable xp. They did it and now it cannot be copied so they're pretty set. They disabled xp so they would be removed from the LB and whoever did it legit would take their rightful place in the LB hall of fame. As it is now, one would have to get to level 56 (or whever the end content level would be) and farm without a death in the highest dungeon the game has to offer. There is also now a set amount of kills that one can get on their journey, assuming you play solo and on the lowest dungeon possible throught the game.

Well that's my suggestion, there are players out there who are hanging on by a thread with PL as is and twinking may have been their saving grace. Removing it seems like a big leap just to make an already established list of boosters suddingly meaningful. If nothing else, STS should look at the plat sales of level 1 gear and think about how that well is going to run dry.

On a side note: Access to stash blocked for all toons below level 4. Can we please go back to completing a few quests and have access fix? There should be a way for level one toons to transfer things back and forth between other toons, please make a work around for this.

[davidis57]

You can lvl to 5 in a few minutes so you can use the stash.

PL Characters Timbabird-55 Oldsillymage-55 SL Character Oldblaster-20

[KingFu]

Very good suggestion and I'd love to see this implemented. I hate this new feature since it's basically saying a list of names is more important than twinks in pve IMO.

[AdinoEznite]

You can lvl to 5 in a few minutes so you can use the stash.

PL Characters Timbabird-55 Oldsillymage-55 SL Character Oldblaster-20
you obviously didnt read the post, people want to be a lvl 1 twink for farming and pvp, not to mention holding items/money/cs slots because they offered premium character packs.
they want to stay lvl 1 and be able to transfer items back and forth, not that big of a request



Very good suggestion and I'd love to see this implemented. I hate this new feature since it's basically saying a list of names is more important than twinks in pve IMO.

agreed, tbh does anyone really care about the leaderboards? i didnt even know they existed until i started hearing these threads about them
even if Gluttony's suggestions isnt implemented, theres still probably lots of other solutions

[asommers]

Sorry, this was to fix an exploit where users would create a new character, visit the stash to store the new character's gold/potions, delete the character and do it all over again.

-ALS

[AdinoEznite]

Sorry, this was to fix an exploit where users would create a new character, visit the stash to store the new character's gold/potions, delete the character and do it all over again.

-ALS
hmm i guess thats a better reason...

would you guys consider something else if we came up with another solution?
im sure theres lots of people willing to brainstorm for one

[asommers]

We're always open to suggestions.

-ALS

[Sun]

Sorry, this was to fix an exploit where users would create a new character, visit the stash to store the new character's gold/potions, delete the character and do it all over again.

-ALS

I'm sorry...but seriously? People getting 20 free hp and mana pots at an incredibly inefficient rate calls for completely destroying a niche part of the game? I'm sure there's a better solution..like why not start new characters out with 0 potions once they leave the tutorial, but have the first quest reward them with 5 or 10 of each?

[Apocolypze]

Wut is the point to the lvl 1 armor from the Premium character upgrade if u cant re use it on a lvl 1-4?!?!?

[Riccits]

i can just say that IMO isnt right that my 51 farmer in Sewers dont get kills anymore.. i play as 51 in a 50-55 dungeon. kinda harder anyway.
i would change this to no get kills in the lower dungeon, aka AO3 if XP locked. Boosting kills in sewers as 51 isnt that good idea.

[AdinoEznite]

I'm sorry...but seriously? People getting 20 free hp and mana pots at an incredibly inefficient rate calls for completely destroying a niche part of the game? I'm sure there's a better solution..like why not start new characters out with 0 potions once they leave the tutorial, but have the first quest reward them with 5 or 10 of each?

agreed


i can see why something like this was implemented for SL because the stimpacks are actually worth something and it gives people an incentive to join a guild...

but in PL? its really not worth it, HP pots are so easy to get and so cheap once you start selling things its ridiculous


I have another solution, but its probably harder to implement than sun's suggestion...

implement pvp rewards. say you get one Fighter of Alterra point for every pvp kill and then you can spend those points on getting access to your stash (say like 20 points)

it would stop people from doing that exploit because the only way they are gonna get any pvp points is if they actually geared up their lvl 1 with plat stuff, and then they would have to delete their character to repeat the process, which would deny them access to their plat gear because they need to rebuy the stash with pvp points

anyone with a serious lvl 1 twink will be able to get those pvp points and get access to the stash

and then the dev team can implement other rewards that we can use pvp points to spend on like vanities and such

the rewards system could also be implemented in someway to stop kill farming in pvp if you limit the number of points you can get by killing one person




on the topic of the no kills if locked xp thing...
you already cant get kills from a dungeon thats like 5 lvls lower than you right?
was there really a problem with the boosting?
any change to the system now just makes the currently leaderboards even more unobtainable (unless its wiped)

[StompArtist]

We're always open to suggestions.

-ALS

This may not be a popular suggestion but how about imposing a limit on how many times you can delete and create a char in a period of 12 hours, for example? This would also prevent other existing exploits of the same kind.

[Apocolypze]

This may not be a popular suggestion but how about imposing a limit on how many times you can delete and create a char in a period of 12 hours, for example? This would also prevent other existing exploits of the same kind.
I like but i think like 1 hour would do xD. I doubt sum1s going to wait 1 hour just to create another char just to get 12 potions :|

[Sun]

This may not be a popular suggestion but how about imposing a limit on how many times you can delete and create a char in a period of 12 hours, for example? This would also prevent other existing exploits of the same kind.

This too, make a limit on how many new characters you can create per day

[Suentous PO]

The purpose of my lv1 twink was to farm for potions & drops which I would stash ( & not sell ). I hope devs didn't frown on this, but without the ability to get to my stash I don't know why I would keep the toon.
I don't "kill farm" & never look at leader boards.
I hope a solution comes out of some of the good player ideas. Also I appreciate the devs being so open to feedback & probably having to deal with some really worked up fans.

[Gluttony]

Sorry, this was to fix an exploit where users would create a new character, visit the stash to store the new character's gold/potions, delete the character and do it all over again.

So as I understand it, a nitche of the game has been removed partially due to the fact that one can create a new toon just to stash 24 pots and 50 gold with a 64g max if you liquidate your starting gear. We are talking a total of 304g if you sell the pots for 10g each. That's quite a bit of work for minimal gain, any real merchant or player would know that you can earn that by just playing the game normally. Allowing access to stash after a few prerequisites are met would solve the issue entirely by adding to the time it takes to gain access to stash substantially.

Perhaps appealing to the business side of things is how we should approace this. There is a level 1 twinking guide, found HERE (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?28248-The-UPDATED-Level-One-Twink-Guide!-(Finally)) and it points out that the best gear for a level one is only available via plat, which means players who are enjoying this aspect of the game have payed for items with a very defined task. I wouldn't suggest that you're shutting down a potential gold mine, but you're definitely closing down a revenue avenue.

[Sun]

So as I understand it, a nitche of the game has been removed partially due to the fact that one can create a new toon just to stash 24 pots and 50 gold with a 64g max if you liquidate your starting gear. We are talking a total of 304g if you sell the pots for 10g each. That's quite a bit of work for minimal gain, any real merchant or player would know that you can earn that by just playing the game normally. Allowing access to stash after a few prerequisites are met would solve the issue entirely by adding to the time it takes to gain access to stash substantially.

Perhaps appealing to the business side of things is how we should approace this. There is a level 1 twinking guide, found HERE (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?28248-The-UPDATED-Level-One-Twink-Guide!-(Finally)) and it points out that the best gear for a level one is only available via plat, which means players who are enjoying this aspect of the game have payed for items with a very defined task. I wouldn't suggest that you're shutting down a potential gold mine, but you're definitely closing down a revenue avenue.

Wisdom.

[Fyrce]

I actually did buy a bunch of plat stuff for my level 1's and I was planning on buying the level 1 premium plat items for them also, but now my level 1's can't access stash, so I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm guessing just leave them. I can't delete them since they have plat/vanities, but I'm not going to buy anything new for them either since they can't give up their plat/vanities.

I also used my level 1's mostly for pot farming and just to show off -- enough kills to be fun when someone saw them and cool equips for a "noob". It was really cool.

I think right now, my level 1's are in a holding pattern.

I would pot farm and buy them plat stuff again if they could access stash. However, having vanities/plat items stuck on the level 1's is NOT fun.

Please consider letting level 1's access stash again somehow. I did think in PL it's lots faster to farm for pots than to restart, etc., especially when you take into consideration the quests you have to do to get into stash. Maybe make the level 1's have to complete more quests? If it takes to level 5 for a normal character to access stash, I'm guessing there's gonna be much less remaking characters for the pot/gold thing.


[And personally I really want those level 1 premium armor things. However, I was on iOS and just as those packs are finally available for us iOS users, the exact toons I want to buy those equips for cannot access stash...]

[Gluttony]

[And personally I really want those level 1 premium armor things. However, I was on iOS and just as those packs are finally available for us iOS users, the exact toons I want to buy those equips for cannot access stash...]

So with you on that one, I was seconds away from upgrading a character to get the level 1 gear but the fact that I would get auction slots for a level one held me up a bit. Then it was suggested to upgrade a different toon and transfer the gear and suddenly I was all in. Good thing I checked what was different before just purchasing the gear. I was looking forward to the update for quite a while, only to get disappointed in when I finally got my hands on it.

[superrolltop]

thanks physilogic.....u complained ur way into ruining the game for a meaningless leaderboard (which is completely skewed already). why do the biggest whiners always get their way?

all this for bragging rights....sad.....so sad.

[Gluttony]

Thanks for that supertroll... Unnecessary flames like that done even belong in this thread. I'm suggesting a fix that could be benifitial to the players of PL and would like to get a dev or two to take it seriously, I'd enjoy them lookin at this and commenting past a *click* and a lock.

Phys' suggestion was for a new game that still had hope for a meaningful LB, there was no way for him to know that code from SL would get carted over.

[Apocolypze]

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/ap0c0lypze/9f2aec31.jpg
Delete this and remake? I think not.

[Ebalere]

Wait.. if you dont care about leaderboards, then whats the problem? You don't need to stash your level one gear and drops, just increase your toons inventory. You can still sell your stuff, and keep pots and whatever else on that toon. The only thing you cant do that affects lvl 1 twinking seriously is rack up kills, but no amount of complaining or suggestions will change this i don't think. I dont even know why they changed this tho, as stated by gluttony in other threads, this just further cements the killboosters that are already on the boards.

[Apocolypze]

Wait.. if you dont care about leaderboards, then whats the problem? You don't need to stash your level one gear and drops, just increase your toons inventory. You can still sell your stuff, and keep pots and whatever else on that toon. The only thing you cant do that affects lvl 1 twinking seriously is rack up kills, but no amount of complaining or suggestions will change this i don't think. I dont even know why they changed this tho, as stated by gluttony in other threads, this just further cements the killboosters that are already on the boards.
See that nice pretty vanity on my head? I have plenty more on that character, and i cant stash those. :|

[Gluttony]

Wait.. if you dont care about leaderboards, then whats the problem? You don't need to stash your level one gear and drops, just increase your toons inventory. You can still sell your stuff, and keep pots and whatever else on that toon. The only thing you cant do that affects lvl 1 twinking seriously is rack up kills, but no amount of complaining or suggestions will change this i don't think. I dont even know why they changed this tho, as stated by gluttony in other threads, this just further cements the killboosters that are already on the boards.

Actually you cannot transfer anything and this was done in the middle of some people's workday. Think about it like this: you have a level 1 toon with say ALL your vanity items on them (why you ask, because you can that's why), next time you log in you find that you cannot access stash, you cannot transfer any of your vanity items to another toon, you can't even take pots or gold out of your stash for your under level 4 toon.

[Flickz]

You people are so redic like its gonna be okay life will move on give the devs a break they said they're open to suggestions so make one if you want change dont keep making threads crying about the fact that it happened. If its to horrible to make a suggestion and wait for it to be put in game then make your own game or something!

[Gluttony]

You people are so redic like its gonna be okay life will move on give the devs a break they said they're open to suggestions so make one if you want change dont keep making threads crying about the fact that it happened. If its to horrible to make a suggestion and wait for it to be put in game then make your own game or something!

This is a suggestion thread, read the OP please. Everything after that I cannot control, but I do respond to what others have to say in the thread. It clear that a few are passionate about this change and choose to express themselves across multiple threads, and there is no problem with that. But take a second to think about what you're trying to accomplish with your post?

[Breadkeeper]

I agree that the stash thing may? Need a fix. But you original post was how if you can't rack up kills the twinking was dead. But at the same time are contradicting this statement by saying its not about the kills. Im confused as to what your upset about. Besides your add in about stash. That i understand.

[Gluttony]

I agree that the stash thing may? Need a fix. But you original post was how if you can't rack up kills the twinking was dead. But at the same time are contradicting this statement by saying its not about the kills. Important confused as to what your upset about. Besides your add in about stash. That i understand.

I actually don't believe I said it's not about the kills, but rather suggested that it's not about the recognition. My suggestion would indeed remove all those level 1 twinks from the LB, that is the main point. The stash is a very important side note that this intergrated patch just happened to create; sorry but I didn't see the need to create a seperate thread just for that.

I'm not actually "upset" about anything, change was needed to make the LB important. I get that, but don't feel that this is the correct action to take. I think that in order to make the boards mean something, those that boosted to get there need to be removed. I believe this solution allows those kill farmers to still be able to toot their own horn, just on a much smaller scale.

[Diodge]

I say delete the boards. . . . . There just a measure of who can play the game the most in both games.


I love kill farming. Its kinda cool to walk around with 10k+ kills at level10. That gave me 2 reasons to hunt down low level gear. I dont even want to play now.

someone didnt have enough time to play and got passed on LB is the only reason it was brought up.

[Apocolypze]

Posted this on your other thread...

OK, well this thread wuz exploiting a bug that came with 1.7.3, which allowed stash use without pre reqs, but before, you could be lvl 1 and stash by doing the first Forest Haven quests. When you fixed it, you made the requirements lvl 4, which makes no sense at all when you could have made it back to the way it was before, rather then changing it completely for the worse. The way before worked very well, people didn't try getting potions that way because it took time, and everyone was happy with it. I think that you should switch it back to the Lil Smith Jr. stash requirement quest, because no one was doing this potion stashing thing BEFORE 1.7.3.
Boom

[Josephjackson]

Id just like to add clutter and say... very interesting post. I like the idea of making leaderboards mean something and its nice to see constant updates and big changes like this. But there are elixirs and that affects pve.. and without a rating system for pvp.. people can pay for kills or prey on others.

And i beleive that locked characters should be removed from lb with this change... but would sort of be wrong in a way too.

[Zerious]

ranks would be a nice touch to the leaderboards... that why people can see how far off they are from the boosters :D

like... PVP kills... top 5, then next page.... etc etc. Then search character... etc etc

[McBain]

I don't see this has been specifically mentioned yet...it costs 5 platinum to create a new character, right? What I'm understanding is that apparently there was a "problem" with people creating new characters all day long just to farm their meager amounts of starting pots and gold (which aren't even worth the 5 platinum spent on the whole process), and that caused them to make this change. What am I missing here?

I have no personal interest in kill-farming, twinking, or whatever, but obviously it's a big deal for some, and I'm just trying to understand the logic. I could understand if creating new characters was free, but if people are spending platinum, what is the problem exactly, STS? Unless I'm mistaken, you want people to spend platinum.

[Gluttony]

I don't see this has been specifically mentioned yet...it costs 5 platinum to create a new character, right? What I'm understanding is that apparently there was a "problem" with people creating new characters all day long just to farm their meager amounts of starting pots and gold (which aren't even worth the 5 platinum spent on the whole process), and that caused them to make this change. What am I missing here?

The point you're missing is that it costs 5 plat for a character slot, once the slot is purchased the character can be created, deleted and recreated for no additional charge.

[McBain]

Oh, didn't realize that. Well then, charge 5 platinum for each character rather than each slot. Problem solved, and everyone is happy, right? Sounds fair to me.

[thequickone]

OK, I gave it a good, long think, and I have the following suggestion regarding stash access:

First, keep the level 5 requirement in place, as this in no way affects those that plan on levelling their characters. As was previously mentioned, it only takes a few minutes to get to level 5.

Second, for those that plan to keep their characters at level one, impose a time limit from character creation to stash access. Note, this is not a time limit as others have suggested. I am proposing the clock start ticking once a character has been created, and could be a large amount of time, such as 48 hours (real time, not in-game time), or more. A low-level character trying to access the stash before the time limit was up would be denied access and given a message like "Stash access will be granted at level 5 or in "HH:MM:SS". Anyone with a lower-than-level-5 character that is older than the time limit would have access to the stash. This would instantly return stash access to veteran level 1 characters; niche intact! This would also effectively end the practice of repeated creation and deletion of new characters just of strip them of their belongings. Most likely, few to no one would want to wait two days or more for a handful of potions and gold. If the practice of "character stripping" (anyone have a better name for this?) is still happening, increase the clock. One week? Two?

In short, stash access would be granted either once the character reaches level 5 or has run out the 2 day (or longer) clock, whichever comes first. Anyone serious about developing their low-level character will not mind the wait!

Let me know what you think! :rolleyes:

Edit: SL is level 5 for stash access. Not 100% sure about PL. If it is level 4, replace all mention of level 5 above with level 4. You know what I meant! You're not flaming me because of my mistake! ;)