Are mages and archers the new warrior?

[Hankomachos]

So I've been doing some sewer farming with my bear and it seems that (certain) archers and mages think that they're bears and can lead the pack. Now, as a bear I like to be a few feet ahead of my party so i can taunt/beckon so i get the aggro and now have to worry about my party dieing. But i keep getting archers running ahead and using their thorn walls thus making my beckons useless... Which makes me look bad if i can't keep good crown control! Maybe i underestimate archers survivability (even if they're full dex) but what ever happened to us bears getting to do our jobs?
/rant ended
:torn:

[Ellyidol]

Lol, you'll have players that do that often. Some players just don't appreciate our Beckon, while some do very much.

I have some friends that play like that as well, but are very good at it. My trick is to be even one more step ahead of them, if they move ahead to kill let them kill that mob, I move on to the next area of mobs and CC them. They come to kill, I move before they even die to CC the next.

[quenibac]

Im a archer with both str and dex. Str gives me armor and adds some health but i use mostly ranged weapons. I sometimes use str weapons but i never go ahead even though i can cuz im strong enough birds r prettry strong and deal a lot of dmg. But i think bears should still go ahead and do what they do best. Feel free to add me

[Uzikrabd]

Hey lol if a bears going ti be dex might as well be pure dex bird doing bears job,and our skills if spammed in right way along with pots,lol respect the eagle lol pl ign uzikrabad and sl ign uzikrabadone lol add me

[Ayc2000]

Lol, I'm the mage that goes in front to ice storm then fire the enemies right when the bear finishes the stomp, and before that I use lightning, so I do get some aggro, but usually the mob is dead before the combos are even finished XD I get a little impatient, so if there is no bear, I just barrel ahead with my manashield...but usually, if someone dies, it's me lol

[zappaxe]

I let bear beckon group 2gether than I unleash my combo on entire mob

[Hankomachos]

I let bear beckon group 2gether than I unleash my combo on entire mob

You're exactly the type of people i enjoy playing with! Not archers and mages using ice storm and thorn wall before i pull enemys. Although my pulls don't always work so when that happens; do whatever ya gotta do! lolz ;)

[Hankomachos]

Oh and I'm not biasing any class as I have all three classes that are pretty high level. ;)

[ZHEOTARE]

I like running just behind the bear. However, most groups I'm in, everyone hesitates after the mob kill. I don't stop, so I always end up in front.

[Zaltiar]

haha when i used to do sewers, i used to go ahead first, do lots of damage and let the others finish em off. never had a complaint.
but when a good bear comes along, i stay behind him and use my combos after he beckons.

[Moogerfooger]

If I am running with a good bear like Elly, Mystical, Decur (and others I haven't the fun/privilege to play with much yet) I will hang back a little because I know they know what they are doing and I get these shiny balls of mobs all packed together nicely just begging for a Cruel Blast. But a lot of bears - and my original toon is a bear, and I love the furry little dudes so I am not bashing bears - do not try very well to keep up with a fast paced party, waste too much time trying to kills single enemy who slides off to the side, and gets behind the party. I am not going to stand around waiting for you to kill someone 50 feet behind me :p also, some bears will actually pull mobs back behind me repeatedly, which to a dex bird or dex mage or whoever happens to be in front at the time - very annoying. I usually try and wait for the bear, especially if he/she is trying, but if there is a good fast mage finishing Nature Strikes or Hot Flashes, I am staying with them throwing with thorns/Cruel Blasting to speed things up.

What Elly and Mystical and Decur do is pro....they haul butt to stay in front, do their beckons at great locations, quick do their Stomp combo, pause to see the Cruel Blast/Nature Strike/Hot Flash to start and immediately take off again, even if a couple of mobs are not quite dead and let the rest of the party finish the stragglers off. By the time we do, they are already around the next corner beckoning up groups by the time we get there, no matter how fast the rest of us are. It was insane how fast it was, and efficient.

Another trick for an archer or a mage, if you are with a pro bear, is to follow them in to their beckon point but here is the key that 90% of people don't realize - DO NOT ATTACK UNTIL THEIR BECKON BEGINS, NOT EVEN AUTO. If you do, you will freeze/aggro at least one of the pulled mobs even with an auto. If they taunt on their way in, you won't get clobbered as the mobs ignore you. Kinda 'scary' at first, but is great fun following a good fuzzybear by about 3 feet right into the middle of 6 mobs as he is beckoning and Cruel Blasting right as the beckon finishes. I was running with Elly and Mystical the other night and I actually thought to myself "Hey this wicked fast, and good for my kill count" because they were so good at it.

I feel your pain, but there is a reason sometimes that archers and mages don't wait up. And also, could be that they are just poopyheads :D

[Yvonnel]

Couldn't have said it better myself Moog! I usually wait and see how good the bear is, then adjust my playstyle accordingly. Good bear who really knows how to taunt and beckon makes the runs quicker.

[Navygreen]

Lol, I'm the mage that goes in front to ice storm then fire the enemies right when the bear finishes the stomp, and before that I use lightning, so I do get some aggro, but usually the mob is dead before the combos are even finished XD I get a little impatient, so if there is no bear, I just barrel ahead with my manashield...but usually, if someone dies, it's me lol

What he said... Sorry sometimes I just get ahead of myself and I feel like I am extra powerful. but I try to work with the bear. Usually if it's timed right, I'll run straight through the mob to the other end while debuffing, round them up and run BACK through towards my group..a bear will beckon, once they're in a tight group, i freeze, they stomp, I blast, mobs die. If there's any left, lightening will take care of the rest.

This works VERY well whether i'm in front or my bear is leading.... But in certain dungeon rooms, the mage definately needs to be behind a bear. Even if I may jump ahead at times, before I enter a room with a large mob, I wait for my party. Let the bear or someone else run it first, take aggro, then i come in after and debuff and go to work... I have it down to a science and it works very well.

And also I have to agree with what moog said about waiting for some to catch up. I like to run THROUGH a mob (depending on what the mob consists of) and there's a certain order my spells are cast in. It works very well and sometimes there's that person who lags behind a little too long... No disrespect though!

:)

[Ellyidol]

Lol, thank you Moog :D

In the same way that people can spot what we bears try to do for the team, we can also spot what some birds/mages do for the team :p

I know for certain that the birds/mages I play with know exactly what to do. I know that if I can successfully clump up the mobs, they know how to kill them. I also know that they know better than to dive head on to try and tank the mobs.

And yes, I can see how Moog's or any bird/mage kill count goes up quick. When doing a map 1 run, I average 2-3 kills the entire map :D

[Cytokinesis]

Lol, I'm the mage that goes in front to ice storm then fire the enemies right when the bear finishes the stomp, and before that I use lightning, so I do get some aggro, but usually the mob is dead before the combos are even finished XD I get a little impatient, so if there is no bear, I just barrel ahead with my manashield...but usually, if someone dies, it's me lol
thats me!!! :p

[Register]

I see your point. I will run ahead if I find that the bear is taking a while to get in the room. But even if I do run ahead, ill try to group up a little and wait for bear. Right when they beckon I wall and combo. A smart mage will use lightning just a little bit after beckon, causing the strongest combo! Nature Strike!

[Suentous PO]

Glad I read this Hank I wouldn't of thought of how it can be annoying. Bear is the one thing I hardly play cept lv 10 twink. I'm guilty of this. One reason I ran up to thorn fools is if I'm with a Mage, I wanna nature strike as many as I can. I'll stop & take some moog's hints. I had just gotten used to a lot of fling-bears messin up my cruell blasts. Well that's one reason I read forums I'm smart enough to know I'm dumb somehow. Hehheh

[Bakoffmycandy]

Lmao, had a lot of fun reading this thread
:D
It helps to know your dungeons & know them well. Lead & for the most part, they follow.

[jakelol]

Your right bears get no credit for the hard work they do trust me I have a lvl 55 bear set up for dungeons and every time I go in to the sewers I can't even lead most players think they can do it the hard way but really if ur group were to just work together it would work so much easier! For example; bears take agro,beckon a soon as ur party see the mob in a pile from beckon that's when the mages and archers come in...archers give all they got! Archers job is to see when he should blast the mob group,followed by everything he Gots...while that's mages should be healing the party and making sure the tank stays alive!! While there casting blast on the mob (grouped)too!! After that is done then the bear can go crazy and use stomp and scatter the mob trust me it's a combo! Haha so it's not a one man job!!! After a few runs ppl catch on! So it's (Taunt and beckon)-Bear) (Blast and then everything u got archers) While that mages heal,blast and so on! But remember that's just the party combo u also have other jobs as different classes so just remember u don't forget to do the normally stuff like for example mages need to buff the party every single time the buffs are done from cooldown! <-- that helps alot!!!

[csb]

I feel out the group. Sometimes I can run ahead and arrange nice little piles of taunted enemies for the group.

But, usually its a foot race, so I just find something to whack with my sword instead. It's less work for me if that's the way they want it. Sometimes it's not pretty, but in the end, everything gets killed.

[Hoodwink]

I adjust and adapt as a mage in the group. Sometimes I find I am leading us but I don't freeze anything until best does his job, but simply put if an archer uses their vines attack to hold them, I just wait another 3 seconds to cast bear spells. No big deal. I find all kinds of techniques are useful.

[NECROREAPER]

I like running just behind the bear. However, most groups I'm in, everyone hesitates after the mob kill. I don't stop, so I always end up in front.

Lol zheo, you know how we run ;)

And Hank, the hardest one is working with another bear, but I think you and I do a pretty good job at doing that :)

[YYZ????]

Let's keep the Bear talk going. Good bears make the game awesome in my opinion. Necroreaper, can you shed some light on techniques for 2 bears to run together more effectively?

I farms sewers with lvl 52 bear. I go in with hate set ready to tank. If i find i am running with a good bear i switch to dex gear and only taunt/beckon/stomp when neccesary. What other ways are useful for bears to get along?

[Ellyidol]

Let's keep the Bear talk going. Good bears make the game awesome in my opinion. Necroreaper, can you shed some light on techniques for 2 bears to run together more effectively?

I farms sewers with lvl 52 bear. I go in with hate set ready to tank. If i find i am running with a good bear i switch to dex gear and only taunt/beckon/stomp when neccesary. What other ways are useful for bears to get along?

Pardon if I cut in, just wanted to share as well since I run with other bears often.

There must be one designated lead bear. This bear decides which mobs to clump up together and where. This bear can change a lot throughout the game, and the second bear has to be aware which he is. It can be as easy as whoever is nearer to the next mob becomes the lead bear.

That said, timing of skills is important. A lead bear would usually beckon, hell scream, stomp. The second bear can do the same, but I suggest only after the lead bear completes his combo. This is so you don't waste beckon and stomp combos.

That's it really, IMO. I follow that and two bears actually proves to be as fast as one, if not faster. The second bear's beckon usually complements the lead bear's beckon, especially if some miss or lack in power to really pull mobs together :)

[pastrychef]

Paladins and warbirds need to realize they are not tanks. Just because they can don strength gear and survive rushing ahead doesn't mean they are tanking. They need to be able to take taunt and take aggro to help keep the team alive.

[NECROREAPER]

Pardon if I cut in, just wanted to share as well since I run with other bears often.

There must be one designated lead bear. This bear decides which mobs to clump up together and where. This bear can change a lot throughout the game, and the second bear has to be aware which he is. It can be as easy as whoever is nearer to the next mob becomes the lead bear.

That said, timing of skills is important. A lead bear would usually beckon, hell scream, stomp. The second bear can do the same, but I suggest only after the lead bear completes his combo. This is so you don't waste beckon and stomp combos.

That's it really, IMO. I follow that and two bears actually proves to be as fast as one, if not faster. The second bear's beckon usually complements the lead bear's beckon, especially if some miss or lack in power to really pull mobs together :)

This.

I always establish a lead bear and if I'm lead I do things normally. If I'm second bear I wait for lead to finish b/HS/stmp combo then I preform same combo usually to the same wall or sometimes an opposite if itll grab the rest of the mob.

It's most important though for the two bears to have this mindset, for them to establish a lead, and to work together. It's not so obvious when birds mad mages are working against each other or not clicking but when bears do it, EVERYone has a bad day.

EDIT***

Also I find that as an attack bear my combo is especially goods a complementary one to the lead bears combo because mine does more damage and either kills the whole mob or they have so little HP left that the rest of the party could literally just auto attack the mob to death. If there is a tank bear present in the party, I'll let him tank, as my bear isn't built for that but can be used as one.

[flyingscv]

The way I deal with the problem as a bear is I wait for the lightning that follows after the birds have finished their thorn wall, and cast hell scream myself. Follow that up with beckon-stomp and you've prob killed the whole mob.

Most times commando birds and images die when they get ahead of me anyway so I'm not fussed. After a few deaths they'll learn even without you saying anything. I'm usually more worried about lousy players leaving after a few deaths than about my ego from them running ahead of me. Ego is a useless thing.

[WhoIsThis]

In the Sewers, given how hard enemies hit, it was perfectly viable for pure int mages with custom and pure dex birds with the custom recurve (or drainers or raid roach) to lead the group. In many cases, they were forced to for lack of a bear (in a PUG) or if the bear simply did not tank (happens often in PUGs; I was once told by a bow bear that his "job" in a group was to auto and to spam his slashes and when I noted that a bird could do that far more effectively, he booted me).

Nuri's is different because enemies hit harder. Ironically, I have found many strength bears are now noticeably more timid because of the one hit kill procs.

[Moogerfooger]

Nuri's is different because enemies hit harder. Ironically, I have found many strength bears are now noticeably more timid because of the one hit kill procs.

I've noticed a lot of players being more timid in Nuri's in general. I was goofing off on my mage, 55 at the time but I had the 1.5x combo elixir going and no one else did...several times on a Haunted Symphony run everyone (2 archers, another mage, and a bear...all levels 56-59, higher than me) stopped and waited for me (it seemed) to lead in. I asked "Why are you stopping so often?" and one replied "You have an elixir, you go first". I about crit my pants.