Is the "hardcore level" really hardcore anymore?

[Whirlzap]

Hello,
I would like to propose some discussion upon this subject.
After every update, there would be a new level cap, and then the so called "hardcore" cap.
In the newest update, this would be level 61. The Developers clearly stated, "and level 61, (for the hardcore)" in the last patch updates.
But now with 4x EXP Elixirs, can we really consider level 61 as hardcore?
Within a full day, many players have already reached the basic level cap and are quickly arriving at the "hardcore" one. These elixirs are given the power to reduce the amoun of EXP needed, all the way down to 4 times. The price is simple, 20 platinum for 30 minutes, etc.
So, I ask you, if this is the hardcore level, why should elixirs be allowed?
This simply takes away ALL the meaning to being hardcore, but rather just buying your way to the "hardcore level". Sure, it is still around 25,000 EXP or so, but that isn't much!
The REAL hardcore is 80,000+ EXP ALL from real hardcore grinding.
Elixirs are there to enhance leveling and speed process; sure, from level 1-60 they are plausible.
But to use them for the "hardcore" level totally takes away the definition.
So I was thinking, ban EXP elixirs for the "hardcore" level and we can see who is ACTUALLY hardcore and who actually deserves the "Crown of Persistence", or these days, "The Crown Of Elixirs".
All other elixirs, go ahead use them. But to those who spend time to earn their rightful level and proudly display such; a simple one day can easily match up to that honor with the help of a few hundred Platinum.
I believe this should stay in General Discussion; it is a more general topic among levels rather than a suggestion itself. I would like to see some opinions, and thoughts on what Elixir Use actually is to you.

[Navygreen]

I think a player can be hardcore, especially if they are spending plat. And spending 20 plat on something like an elixr when there's tons of other things to spend plat on, I think I can consider them hardcore. They're spending REAL money on a game they like to play to make it all the way to the level cap. What's more hardcore than that?

[Zaltiar]

no, its already enough people spending tons of plat just to reach 60. thats their choice, you can always do it the way you're supposed to without elixers which then would be an elite level. I'd say keep it as it is.

[Flickz]

Elixers are a big part of sts's income at least i would assume

[Kakatoa91]

If sts didnt use the word 'hardcore lvl' would this b different for you? They should have use the words 'time consumming' for me but thats less appealin to players.
If there wasnt a forum, no chat ig where you could read people reachin rapidly cap or you couldnt read/view the lvl of the avatar ig would this change your point of view, not knowing who is where and at what lvl?

Reachin a cap should b just personnal imo, just dont mind others, focus on your own goal at the rythm you like or able to give.:cool:
For me it doesnt change a thing if someone else like a plat leveler reach the cap b4 me.
It also doesnt give any advantage to cap first here in this game, it only give more cash $$ to sts thats all.

I cap 56 in April/may and did like 3/5 without plat. Everybody was saying new map soon, hurry up, get the crown b4 its gone, blabla... so I did the rest with plat, yes the boost was quite impressive.
But I wouldnt have done it if I knew it was september lol. ;)
I only used b4 plat gears, upgrade account, more avatars, vanities or maps when it was needed it to play last year.
For my part, I admit that sometime Im a bit envious on people having this luxury of '"time to play'". Got work, family, friends, gf, work, social life, other hobbies and work. :p (yea im typin this at work, lunchbreak..)
Will I use plat elixir to 61? Maybe, maybe not, its just an option I got.

Anyway, playing n enjoying at my own rythm with plat or not. Thats the balance I need and try to keep, thats my way of having fun with PL.
:)

[Navygreen]

I think being a hardcore fan of the game means doing what you have to to reach the end of the game and enjoying every bit of it the whole way through. I'm nowhere near the level cap for the game and i've used elixrs before and I would consider myself a hardcore fan of the game. Am I not included because I spent the plat, that I bought WITH MY MONEY, on elixrs? I'm enjoying the game and working hard just like everyone else.

Im starting to think it's become a jealousy issue with some people who dont have the money to spend on platinum. I'm sorry if this is not you but i'm just making a general assumption based on some of the comments i've read here. It's not like people are cheating. It would be cheating if it wasn't included as an actual item that you can purchase. STS made it available to those who would like to spend money to advance a little quicker. It's not like you pop an elixr pill and you automatically shoot to the next level. You still have to play the game and kill the badies before you get anywhere with it. And not to mention, do it quickly before your money (that you spent), aka elixr, runs out.

Sorry I just have a difference of opinion. :) I'm spending plat this weekend. It's payday for me and STS I guess. lol... I''m doing it because I like what plat has to offer and I also love supporting the game and the development team. I would absolutely consider myself a hardcore fan of the game.

[Beanmachine]

Wait a sec, it's only 25k xp from 60-61!?!?

[Mizlilbrat]

I would have to agree with you. Going from 60 to 61 without using elixirs would be truely hardcore.

But STS needs to make their money as well.

[Lobstie]

Wait a sec, it's only 25k xp from 60-61!?!?

with an 4x xp elixir. without 100k

[CrimsonTider]

Whirlz, elite is in the eye of the beholder. You may think grinding to 61 on elixirs is not elite, but what about those who have 3-4 toons at the same cap. It does not matter how much grinding is performed, for a mobile game designed mainly for those with limited time, 61 is an achievement.


AHh phew makes much more sense now lol. Whats the reward for reaching lv61?

Unknown as of now. Hoping the info for this is released soon!

[RedRyder]

All enemies give 1xp per kill. I clearly remember then capped characters playing the newest campaign getting about 2-3 xp per kill, as if to encourage you to buy elixirs. This is hardly a pick up and play game anymore, unless you get the 4x elixirs.

[octavos]

All enemies give 1xp per kill. I clearly remember then capped characters playing the newest campaign getting about 2-3 xp per kill, as if to encourage you to buy elixirs. This is hardly a pick up and play game anymore, unless you get the 4x elixirs.

Discount elix prices, or higher versions (5x, 8x, ect but yes different plat costs too) of elix would help greatly :D...dont mind spending the plat, but I want to get there fast, I want one capped toon, i have 2 others i want to level :D

[Whirlzap]

Exactly, the game just wants to get lazier?
To be off-topic, I wonder how much time someone would need for 1-61 on 8x elixirs?:P

[drewcapu]

Exactly, the game just wants to get lazier?
To be off-topic, I wonder how much time someone would need for 1-61 on 8x elixirs?:P

Hard to say as it seems like they changed the curve again. Going from L55 to L56 isn't even the expected 8384 xp.

[Duped]

Whirlz, the question is purely theoretical because STS generates so much money off elixirs, they aren't going anywhere. Are there people that grind from 55-56 or 60-61 with no elixirs, sure. but they are very much in the minority. I would have made it without elixirs (I ended up halfway there on bear) if I didn't decide instead to have 3@55 and then go from there. Oh well, I personally don't want to spend plat to reach an elite level, but there are LOTS of people who do :) I also have accepted that the amount of time I spend playing might just keep me from ever being "hardcore" in some peoples minds :)

[Kalielle]

I actually think 4X damage and armor pots are an even bigger problem than XP pots. I'm lucky to have a group of friends who all potted 3 and 4X and invited me to come along when the maps first came out. I bought a plat XP elixir and joined... and I've rarely been so bored in my life. I couldn't wait for my pot to run out so I wouldn't feel guilty about leaving.

The highest level maps available should not feel like running Forest Haven on a level 45, but that's exactly how they feel with people potting. It used to be that people would pot 2X and that felt overpowered but not insanely so. And even those who had lots of money would look twice before potting 3X or even 2X with gold, and the pots wouldn't last forever. Now I've seen a ton of people potting with plat, making themselves 4X more powerful for the entire time they're playing.

You might say, well if you don't like those pots don't use them (and I don't) - but it isn't that simple because this is a multiplayer game, so you can't just ignore what others do. Already I've seen threads of people who are potting plat getting together to form their own "harcore" team... It used to be that the players who were in high demand were those with the best (looted) gear, or who could play well, or who had earned enough gold in the game to pot after months of play. Now the new elite are going to be those who pay plat to pot, because no gear or skill can even come close to matching the advantage of 4X stats. And the new gold pots at 1.5X barely do anything. This game used to pride itself about not selling power, but that's what it's doing now - and such insane power too. It doesn't even feel like a real game anymore once several players in a team pot 3 or 4X. Oh and if you die, just respawn instantly for 1 plat. You might as well sell over your God Mode for a fee.

Most of all I'm dismayed that nobody seems to understand what my problem is. My friends point out that I have enough plat to pot, which is true. I've been conservative with spending plat just because I'm a conservative spender in real life, but if PL forced me to pay the same subscription fee as WoW for instance, I'd gladly pay it and wouldn't complain, because I'd know I'm paying for content. But suppose I potted plat and bought more plat to pot, what do I have to feel proud of? That I'm good at the game after making myself 4X more powerful, resurrecting instantly after deaths, and leveling to some "hardcore" level that it took me a lot less time to reach than it would take some kid who can't afford plat?

But it seems I'm in the minority and most people will gladly pay money for an "I am rich" type of app where you pay money to instantly be labeled leet. I don't blame STS for taking full advantage of it. I just mourn the game I used to know and love, that is no more. I hope that once the next campaign comes out and PL made enough money out of the elixir craze, there will be some rebalancing of the kind of power that's available for plat purchase to make the game feel like a challenge again.

[Physiologic]

Lv 60 with Cyber Gear with 4x Platinum Elixir >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lv 60 with full Glyph set + Skillz

[WhoIsThis]

Most of all I'm dismayed that nobody seems to understand what my problem is. My friends point out that I have enough plat to pot, which is true. I've been conservative with spending plat just because I'm a conservative spender in real life, but if PL forced me to pay the same subscription fee as WoW for instance, I'd gladly pay it and wouldn't complain, because I'd know I'm paying for content. But suppose I potted plat and bought more plat to pot, what do I have to feel proud of? That I'm good at the game after making myself 4X more powerful, resurrecting instantly after deaths, and leveling to some "hardcore" level that it took me a lot less time to reach than it would take some kid who can't afford plat?

But it seems I'm in the minority and most people will gladly pay money for an "I am rich" type of app where you pay money to instantly be labeled leet. I don't blame STS for taking full advantage of it. I just mourn the game I used to know and love, that is no more. I hope that once the next campaign comes out and PL made enough money out of the elixir craze, there will be some rebalancing of the kind of power that's available for plat purchase to make the game feel like a challenge again.


I think that you are going to have to come to terms with the idea that PL is no longer a "casual" game. It is as time-intensive as a PC game (especially if you want to level up the conventional "slow" way).

[Physiologic]

I think that you are going to have to come to terms with the idea that PL is no longer a "casual" game. It is as time-intensive as a PC game (especially if you want to level up the conventional "slow" way).

Agreed. All free MMOs turn out like this. Every. Single. One.

:(

And if they don't, the company eventually flops.

[Xazic]

I like the elixirs... And I think you just sound sore whirl. You can get to 61 the way you want to, if you think without elixirs is better, why bother us?

[WhoIsThis]

Agreed. All free MMOs turn out like this. Every. Single. One.

:(

And if they don't, the company eventually flops.

Right now, I just realized that I spend about as much time as a friend of mine does on WoW.

[Redbridge]

Lots of good points raised, great discussion, but unfortunately/fortunately people are entitled to play the game the way they want to. As are people allowed to disagree/agree with the way others level. Oh, the joys of the world. What's the worse that could happen? People might start having different opinions for heavens sake, and that would make us all different. Crikey. LOL :emmersed:

Personally I've been playing with Elixirs and probably will do to 60 and then see how it goes. I do agree though running with Elixirs poses little challenge so boredom may kick in choosing this route, unless the only goal your chasing is 60/61, but what do you do when you reach that goal? I plan to run without Elixirs on my other 2 alts but we shall see, that may all change if 'laziness' kicks in.

I reckon this speed levelling poses a larger problem for STS though. Boredom. I've already seen a few people say they are getting bored with PL and I'm wondering whether more content is required. I don't mean new content/maps as has just arrived but more 'meat on the bones', maybe some more quest lines, new things to do in existing content, etc.

OR..... Is there going to be a point when (like with almost every game i've ever played) you will eventually need take a break from the game, as it doesn't hold your attention anymore, and maybe (maybe not) come back. Being a successful game like PL brings all sorts of other problems and raised expectations, and to make things even more complicated every player has vastly different needs and motivations.

I vote leave it as it is...

[Physiologic]

Yes...ultimately, it's the player that chooses to buy elixirs. If you're unhappy with elixirs, find a group of people who will play without elixirs, lock your games, and enjoy the ride!

If you want to drop Plat and do things a bit faster (albeit, a bit more boring too), then find a group of people who will play with elixirs, lock the game, and there you have it :)

[Register]

Crimson got thto the point I wanted to. The people who combo pot the whole way will be elite to others. But not you. You dont have to think of them as elite. Prove it to yourself! get to level 61 using little to none combo pots! You will feel elite. Because to yourself, you ARE elite. To others, mabye not so much. But who gives a scimitar about what others think ;)

[Conradin]

But who gives a scimitar about what others think ;)


CLassic!! Im quoting that.

Anyways think of it this way. PL is a Pick up -play a little- put down game. It was ment to be like that from day 1. Now, Even with pots it takes quite a while, making it hard for players that have little time to play. BUt if you have hours a day to play, its a different story. So in a perfect world, those that used say, 30 minutes of XP pots or less would get one elite item, and those that used pots would get a different item. But all in all, as the others said, its about personally knowing you did it without pots.

[krazii]

I actually think 4X damage and armor pots are an even bigger problem than XP pots. I'm lucky to have a group of friends who all potted 3 and 4X and invited me to come along when the maps first came out. I bought a plat XP elixir and joined... and I've rarely been so bored in my life. I couldn't wait for my pot to run out so I wouldn't feel guilty about leaving.

The highest level maps available should not feel like running Forest Haven on a level 45, but that's exactly how they feel with people potting. It used to be that people would pot 2X and that felt overpowered but not insanely so. And even those who had lots of money would look twice before potting 3X or even 2X with gold, and the pots wouldn't last forever. Now I've seen a ton of people potting with plat, making themselves 4X more powerful for the entire time they're playing.

You might say, well if you don't like those pots don't use them (and I don't) - but it isn't that simple because this is a multiplayer game, so you can't just ignore what others do. Already I've seen threads of people who are potting plat getting together to form their own "harcore" team... It used to be that the players who were in high demand were those with the best (looted) gear, or who could play well, or who had earned enough gold in the game to pot after months of play. Now the new elite are going to be those who pay plat to pot, because no gear or skill can even come close to matching the advantage of 4X stats. And the new gold pots at 1.5X barely do anything. This game used to pride itself about not selling power, but that's what it's doing now - and such insane power too. It doesn't even feel like a real game anymore once several players in a team pot 3 or 4X. Oh and if you die, just respawn instantly for 1 plat. You might as well sell over your God Mode for a fee.

Most of all I'm dismayed that nobody seems to understand what my problem is. My friends point out that I have enough plat to pot, which is true. I've been conservative with spending plat just because I'm a conservative spender in real life, but if PL forced me to pay the same subscription fee as WoW for instance, I'd gladly pay it and wouldn't complain, because I'd know I'm paying for content. But suppose I potted plat and bought more plat to pot, what do I have to feel proud of? That I'm good at the game after making myself 4X more powerful, resurrecting instantly after deaths, and leveling to some "hardcore" level that it took me a lot less time to reach than it would take some kid who can't afford plat?

But it seems I'm in the minority and most people will gladly pay money for an "I am rich" type of app where you pay money to instantly be labeled leet. I don't blame STS for taking full advantage of it. I just mourn the game I used to know and love, that is no more. I hope that once the next campaign comes out and PL made enough money out of the elixir craze, there will be some rebalancing of the kind of power that's available for plat purchase to make the game feel like a challenge again.

Kaley, couldn't agree more. I've had that "you've lost that loving feeling" about PL for awhile, but after this update, I just can't stand it. I have used plat, as you, to "keep up", but I feel ugly about it and very guilty if I don't go along with the group. I think this entire update is hardcore, not just level 61. The amount of exp required at each level is ludicrous. It's been pointed out that all MMO's develop into this eventually and I agree, I guess I just hoped PL would be different.

Hope to cya in the game,

[Duped]

...... I just mourn the game I used to know and love, that is no more. I hope that once the next campaign comes out and PL made enough money out of the elixir craze, there will be some rebalancing of the kind of power that's available for plat purchase to make the game feel like a challenge again.

I agree with your whole post, but I also think that they are here to stay. I do miss when there weren't so many plat upgrades... but... things have changed to that direction and that's just how it is.

[davidis57]

Go ahead use elixers just don't demand those who don't that they should pot. That's the only problem I have with elixers. My main problem is I have such a bad connection I can only play in early hours of the morning. Even after new levels etc. I am still bored with PL and SL. Maybe because of my connection but it sure baffles me.

PL Characters Timbabird-55 Oldsillymage-55 SL Character Oldblaster-22

[mackjack]

Here's a suggestion to STS, since this game seems to be all about plat now:

Slap some recycled contents together and raise the level cap every few months. Sell 1000 xp for 5 plats. Rake in the profits. While at it, make sure the plat bought gear are overwhelmingly better than looted gear. Rake in even more profits.

Sarcasm aside, I agree with Kalielle that 4x combo elixirs are a bigger issue than xp elixirs. Have you seen the amount of incredibly bad, high level, elixired up, players out there now? Having 4x combo elixirs is simply taking power leveling to another level... Don't need to ask higher level players to help you now; just chug a 4x combo elixir and go at it.

Is anyone interested in a no-elixir guild?

[j46g629h]

IMO, there is no hardcore on PL.
Only some people who have reached level cap in day 1 or 2 are thinking themselves as hardcore.

I'm fine with the way STS makes money because it's free mmo game and buying the elixir is their choice.
I just can't wait to see people paying a lot of money for elixir all the way to the top when level cap is raised to 90 or even more :)

[mugen]

Really not hard core just how much real life money your willing to spend IMO. Unless done without elixirs then it's truly hardcore!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Whirlzap]

I guess the Developers sort of listened.
Quoted by asommers:
We might make a leaderboard for those who achieve the final level without elixirs.

Not exactly what I suggested, but a pretty decent change!

[Ayc2000]

i bet you'll be the first one on that leaderboard whirlz XD