PvP Updates: Proposed Balance Changes (7/21/16)

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Greetings Arlorians!

We've appreciated all feedback players have been posted after the corrections to Aimed Shot as well as the current state of Rogues in PvP. Due to the nature of the thread, we have taken another look at overall PvP balance based on the issues that players have brought up, and have found something we want to address.

Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

Proposed Changes:
1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.
3) The duration of the invulnerability upgrade on Horn of Renew will be reduced (in PvP only) from 2/3 seconds to 1/1.5 seconds.
4) Reduce the amount of Nekro's Arcane Ability Damage Reduction in PvP
5) Allow Juggernaut's upgrade to work even inside of a Korruption Pool (there's debate whether this is considered healing 'over time')


While this is our current plan, because of the nature of PvP, we are looking for feedback from the players on this. If the discussion goes well this will be released next Thursday's patch!

See you on Blood Beach,
-STSVroom

[Zeus]

Yay!

Seems like rogue will have a place again.

[Anyona]

I'm actually done, nerfing the other classes is not what should happen. Especially when in two combos my arcane shield is broken by a rogue. I guess I can expect to be comboed now after the 2sec immunity.

How about you increase rogues survivability and the utility they offer in a team environment rather than nerfing the other classes?

Also, the numbers you're using are completely wrong. Change the number to 10,000 damage and that's how much rogues will deal without any global nerfs and damage reduction.

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[Zeus]

I'm actually done, nerfing the other classes is not what should happen. Especially when in two combos my arcane shield is broken by a rogue. I guess I can expect to be comboed now after the 2sec immunity.

How about you increase rogues survivability and the utility they offer in a team environment rather than nerfing the other classes?

Also, the numbers you're using is completely wrong. Change the number to 10,000 damage and that's how much rogues will deal without any global nerfs and shield reduction.

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I do agree that classes shouldn't be nerfed. I hated when rogue armor got nerfed and was on the verge of quitting. If there's a solution that doesn't involve nerfing warrior and sorcerer, that would be more ideal.

[Anyona]

I do agree that classes shouldn't be nerfed. I hated when rogue armor got nerfed and was on the verge of quitting. If there's a solution that doesn't involve nerfing warrior and sorcerer, that would be more ideal.

I would prefer them to change their armor back.


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[Crackerzseven]

More needs! Geez..we warrs get slaughtered by mages as it is..and new arc bow for rogues picks us off no problem...ahh u want mages n rogues to have more kills at the warrs expense, u already gave us the worse weapons out of all the three classes now this..Woop thx sts..check how many warrs are killed by mages vs the other way round..

[Crackerzseven]

Nerf not needs..lol

[Matheo Hkmat]

meh dont nerf shield rogues will kill us with 1 hit :(

[resurrected]

I dont think war shield and mage should be nerfed...

[Luciano Lobo]

This... oh no man... first re-evaluated the new arcane weapons of the warrior and then come back to this. Also, this shouldn't be happening. Nerfing not only 1 but 2 classes to bring balance and please 1 class is not the right way. You are also including health skills. I see that with this changes, mages are gonna be the ones that will suffer more. And for tanks your are gonna make them re-evaluate there whole build (skill points and jewels!!!) once again to accommodate the new jugg vicious formula. Rogues will just have to wait the new nerfs and puff kill everyone. You have to take into consideration these aspects to. People is getting really tired accommodating there whole gear over and over to be on top.

[Cross]

After 3 and a half years skills are getting "fixed". Can this be stopped? It startes to get annoying.

Warrior's heal shouldn't be nerfed. Those few seconds are essential for the survivability of warrior's and their team in PvP.

[will0]

Arcane shield only thing keeping mage alive and now you want to nerf it ? Remove nekro AA in PVP then ... everyone is using it to shield themself.

review 46 arcane sword process which is the main issue!

All these nerfing making me feel more and more bored of this game ..

[Zeus]

This... oh no man... first re-evaluated the new arcane weapons of the warrior and then come back to this. Also, this shouldn't be happening. Nerfing not only 1 but 2 classes to bring balance and please 1 class is not the right way. You are also including health skills. I see that with this changes, mages are gonna be the ones that will suffer more. And for tanks your are gonna make them re-evaluate there whole build (skill points and jewels!!!) once again to accommodate the new jugg vicious formula. Rogues will just have to wait the new nerfs and puff kill everyone. You have to take into consideration these aspects to. People is getting really tired accommodating there whole gear over and over to be on top.

I do agree nerfing should never be the answer, but where was this sort of mercy when rogue's armor got nerfed?

[resurrected]

Does these " fixing " will affect pve?
Talking about mage shield and jugg self heal

[Kakashis]

I don't pvp much on my rogue, but I'm all for trying this out. It was literally impossible to 1v1 other classes as a rogue.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Our understanding of the PvP at endgame based on your posts in other threads is:

In duels:
Rogues > Sorcerers
Sorcerers > Warriors (can someone explain to me how this fight plays out?)
Warriors > Rogues

As others have stated, this is a form of Rock Paper Scissors. This is ok with us, we don't want to upset this balance (though we would like it if player skill can win any of these battles).

Some factors that would help us when considering duels that players can answer:
1) How one-sided are the duel battles right now? For example is the Rogue > Sorcerer battle close, but Rogues usually win? Or is the battle one sided with the Rogue having more than 50% hp while the Sorcerer dies? The same for the Sorcerer vs Warrior matchup, and the Warrior vs Rogue matchup.
2) What skills are typically taken in a 1v1 battle (that aren't taken in a Clash)

In Clashes:
Warriors: Feel good. Sufficiently tanky, with potential damage output.
Sorcerers: Feel good. Squishy but have the ability to survive with shields and good play with Warriors. Damage is ok.
Rogues: Do not feel good. Going up against more than 1 Warrior or Sorcerer leads to not enough damage output to take down a single character before dying.


Rogues are meant to be glass cannons as many players have mentioned. Based on the Duel scenario, it sounds like Rogues are living up to this. They win the duel in which they out-burst the tankiness of their opponent (Sorcerers), they lose the duel in which they cannot burst their opponent down (Warriors).

What we want to look at now is why Rogues cannot perform the same role in Clashes when facing multiple Warriors or Sorcerers. I have seen players mention that Sorcerers can be protected by a good tank, but for some reason a Rogue can not be protected by that same tank. From what players have said, in Clashes a Rogue can't put out enough dps to be effective.

Questions I have about this scenario for Rogues:
1) In a Clash if you're able to get to the Sorcerer, do you feel you can kill them (like you can in a duel)?
2) What skills are typically taken in a Clash (that aren't taken in a Duel)


These are the thoughts that have led us to examining the disparity of PvP adjustments. Rogue's damage has been reduced, but the ability for other classes to survive (as players have mentioned, Rogues don't have many tools to increase survivability) was not. Our desires from this discussion is to target the best way to adjust that without affecting other balances system (specifically duels).

Note:
In terms of these changes happening, we're firmly listening to the community on this one. What we've written is our proposed changes and nothing is going to go live or be tested until a discussion has happened, so please give your feedback on the problem :)

[yubaraj]

Its gonna be rogue legends again lol.

Btw nobody wants to get nerfed.

Only thing good about mage is our shield if you guys Nerf it by half then we may get one shorted by rogues with the shield on.

If you really want to Nerf arcane shield . Nerf nekro shield too. <b>Pet should not be giving more damage reduction than skill does.</b>

I was suggesting to give rogue 2 sec invulnerability in razor shield only 46+ rogue . Only in TDM and CTF. Not in PvP and duel.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

To those mentioning Nekro, we would be evaluating a reduction in the shield of Nekro's AA accordingly as part of this. I'll update my posts with that notion.

[Valkiryas]

I do agree nerfing should never be the answer, but where was this sort of mercy when rogue's armor got nerfed?

Exatly all the current nerfs were for rogues, armor, damage, aimed and everyone else class get they survivality buff.

Now a rogue can beat a tank if it isn't enough skilled.

[Anyona]

Our understanding of the PvP at endgame based on your posts in other threads is:

In duels:
Rogues > Sorcerers
Sorcerers > Warriors (can someone explain to me how this fight plays out?)
Warriors > Rogues

As others have stated, this is a form of Rock Paper Scissors. This is ok with us, we don't want to upset this balance (though we would like it if player skill can win any of these battles).

Some factors that would help us when considering duels that players can answer:
1) How one-sided are the duel battles right now? For example is the Rogue > Sorcerer battle close, but Rogues usually win? Or is the battle one sided with the Rogue having more than 50% hp while the Sorcerer dies? The same for the Sorcerer vs Warrior matchup, and the Warrior vs Rogue matchup.
2) What skills are typically taken in a 1v1 battle (that aren't taken in a Clash)

In Clashes:
Warriors: Feel good. Sufficiently tanky, with potential damage output.
Sorcerers: Feel good. Squishy but have the ability to survive with shields and good play with Warriors. Damage is ok.
Rogues: Do not feel good. Going up against more than 1 Warrior or Sorcerer leads to not enough damage output to take down a single character before dying.


Rogues are meant to be glass cannons as many players have mentioned. Based on the Duel scenario, it sounds like Rogues are living up to this. They win the duel in which they out-burst the tankiness of their opponent (Sorcerers), they lose the duel in which they cannot burst their opponent down (Warriors).

What we want to look at now is why Rogues cannot perform the same role in Clashes when facing multiple Warriors or Sorcerers. I have seen players mention that Sorcerers can be protected by a good tank, but for some reason a Rogue can not be protected by that same tank. From what players have said, in Clashes a Rogue can't put out enough dps to be effective.

Questions I have about this scenario for Rogues:
1) In a Clash if you're able to get to the Sorcerer, do you feel you can kill them (like you can in a duel)?
2) What skills are typically taken in a Clash (that aren't taken in a Duel)


These are the thoughts that have led us to examining the disparity of PvP adjustments. Rogue's damage has been reduced, but the ability for other classes to survive (as players have mentioned, Rogues don't have many tools to increase survivability) was not. Our desires from this discussion is to target the best way to adjust that without affecting other balances system (specifically duels).

Note:
In terms of these changes happening, we're firmly listening to the community on this one. What we've written is our proposed changes and nothing is going to go live or be tested until a discussion has happened, so please give your feedback on the problem :)

If you want to nerf mages shields, I want my damage buffed and some sort of skill that reduces armor. You're right about the rock paper scissors thing but its the point where rogues with less gear than me are killing me which I don't feel like that should be the case.

I believe all the duel scenario's you mentioned are one sided. And as for skills I use in a duel they're:

(Vs Rogues and Tanks)
Shield
Heal
Light
Ice
(Using nekro)

(Vs Rogues)
Or:
Shield
Light
Fireball
Ice
(Using Shady and Surge)

I feel that Rogue V Mage is very luck dependant on the mages part as you're very dependant on auto attacks landing and critical hits. Where as Tank V Mage it is much easier due to you being able to alternate shields and heal when needed.


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[Kriticality]

To be clear rogues should have been nerfed though. At 41 cap they were terminators. One shotting mages through shield and shattering jugg with 40% damage redux from nekro. The reason mages beat tanks in duel is bc mages heal cycle is very strong. With no nekro I imagine tanks can beat mages. Rogue is rogue. I can beat any rogue in duel as well if not for that op dodge. It's usually lopsided in the rogues favor unless I can land one or two auto. Then ofc Mage can win. Tanks aren't that bad off against mages and mages aren't that bad off against rogues. The battles are closer with Max gear and skills at end game I'd say. I can't comment really on rogue vs tank. A Mage without shield is a dead Mage for sure in any scenario. It's our aimed shot. It's our juggernaut. It is mages most important skill. I'd ask for a reconsideration on nerfing it by 50%.

Some mages may still be fine if they have tons of gear. Others will suffer tremendously by this nerf. I'd imagine 90% of end game mages will be in for a very tough time.

On another note, I've never liked the idea of Mage stacking. This would definitely make me want to. As you will need more mages to rush the rogues now. Shield name can be changed to invincibility. As that is likely the only good the shield will provide anymore.


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[Zeus]

To those mentioning Nekro, we would be evaluating a reduction in the shield of Nekro's AA accordingly as part of this. I'll update my posts with that notion.

Touching Nekro would further kill whatever little survivability a rogue has. If you don't believe me, test what happens to a rogue without a Nekro shield. This is exactly what happens in clash. As soon as that shield is gone, sorcerers rush the rogue and knock his or her lights out.

Again, I really think nerfs are not the answer. Many others think the same as well, so if there could be some way to increase rogues survivability or damage output so they survive in clash, that would be great.

[Hpnvx]

What with the nerfs??? Only thing that needs to be nerfed is korruption, if your gonna nerf heals, might as well nerf kor, at least take a good look at the pet....

[yubaraj]

Exatly all the current nerfs were for rogues, armor, damage, aimed and everyone else class get they survivality buff.

Now a rogue can beat a tank if it isn't enough skilled.

Yap armor got nerfed for rogues.

BTW most people are confused. Rogue damage got buffed in PVP after global nerf. Before global nerf, rogue were affected by damage nerf which also resulted in not getting pet happiness damage buff. Now they are not.

And as far as aimed shot goes their overall damage got buffed. Only thing they lack in 56 team PVP is their survivality.

Instead of nerfing other class. Why don't you give little bit more damage reduction to rogue in some skill. For example give them damage reduction or armor of 30 40 % in shadow veil.

[Saud]

i am sorry
But this is getting ridiculous
Nerf everything not the way to make blance
I think you guys nerf everything cause of rogues
Why not fix them then??
Nerf 2 classes isn't the solution
Give them there armor back
I don't like these nerfs

And you even said rogues beat mages
How we are supposed to win then??

[Valkiryas]

Yap armor got nerfed for rogues.

BTW most people are confused. Rogue damage got buffed in PVP after global nerf. Before global nerf, rogue were affected by damage nerf which also resulted in not getting pet happiness damage buff. Now they are not.

And as far as aimed shot goes their overall damage got buffed. Only thing they lack in 56 team PVP is their survivality.

Instead of nerfing other class. Why don't you give little bit more damage reduction to rogue in some skill. For example give them damage reduction or armor of 30 40 % in shadow veil.

Well everyone class thinks that buffing another "Skill" can be a good solution but it isn't, because Shadow Veil isn't good enough as like asking a warrior to use rally Cry, no one uses it and no one wants to use it ...

[resurrected]

Our understanding of the PvP at endgame based on your posts in other threads is:

In duels:
Rogues > Sorcerers
Sorcerers > Warriors (can someone explain to me how this fight plays out?)
Warriors > Rogues

As others have stated, this is a form of Rock Paper Scissors. This is ok with us, we don't want to upset this balance (though we would like it if player skill can win any of these battles).

Some factors that would help us when considering duels that players can answer:
1) How one-sided are the duel battles right now? For example is the Rogue > Sorcerer battle close, but Rogues usually win? Or is the battle one sided with the Rogue having more than 50% hp while the Sorcerer dies? The same for the Sorcerer vs Warrior matchup, and the Warrior vs Rogue matchup.
2) What skills are typically taken in a 1v1 battle (that aren't taken in a Clash)

In Clashes:
Warriors: Feel good. Sufficiently tanky, with potential damage output.
Sorcerers: Feel good. Squishy but have the ability to survive with shields and good play with Warriors. Damage is ok.
Rogues: Do not feel good. Going up against more than 1 Warrior or Sorcerer leads to not enough damage output to take down a single character before dying.


Rogues are meant to be glass cannons as many players have mentioned. Based on the Duel scenario, it sounds like Rogues are living up to this. They win the duel in which they out-burst the tankiness of their opponent (Sorcerers), they lose the duel in which they cannot burst their opponent down (Warriors).

What we want to look at now is why Rogues cannot perform the same role in Clashes when facing multiple Warriors or Sorcerers. I have seen players mention that Sorcerers can be protected by a good tank, but for some reason a Rogue can not be protected by that same tank. From what players have said, in Clashes a Rogue can't put out enough dps to be effective.

Questions I have about this scenario for Rogues:
1) In a Clash if you're able to get to the Sorcerer, do you feel you can kill them (like you can in a duel)?
2) What skills are typically taken in a Clash (that aren't taken in a Duel)


These are the thoughts that have led us to examining the disparity of PvP adjustments. Rogue's damage has been reduced, but the ability for other classes to survive (as players have mentioned, Rogues don't have many tools to increase survivability) was not. Our desires from this discussion is to target the best way to adjust that without affecting other balances system (specifically duels).

Note:
In terms of these changes happening, we're firmly listening to the community on this one. What we've written is our proposed changes and nothing is going to go live or be tested until a discussion has happened, so please give your feedback on the problem :)

Actually rogue vs sorc is hard to win if sorc know how to perfect use shield heal nekro/sns circle. I don't know how about now but before it i hardly took down mage. Harder than before aimed " fix "( twink lvl 15)
Skilled mages can take down warriors and its again about timing of circle and skill switch. From my experience mages use 5 skills during fight a warrior or rogue. 3 attack skills with shield and swap one of attack skills to heal when its needed. Warriors do it also like swap chest splitter/skyward smash to venge when they ran out of mana during fight a mage but it all depends on skills.
Skills that are taken by rogues in 1v1 are mostly: aimed shot/nox bolt or razor shield/shadow pierce and combat medic.
Nox bold or razor shield... some rogues use razor shield to not get stunned from mages/warriors when their nekro shield runs out of when they aren't using pet that protects them from stunning.
As for warrior skills are mostly: skyward smash/chest splitter or axe throw/juggernaut or vengeful blood and horn of renew.
Chest splitter vs axe throw... some of warriors use chest splitter for pebble rogue so he/she won't be able to critical hit on him. It also deals more damage in short time than axe. Warriors with some another strategy use axe for take rogue away from packs and then just kill him/her.
As for jugg and venge: venge is useful if you know when to switch it. I seen in vsing war vs mage/rogue that some switch skyward smash for venge when they are out of mana and then switch back to skill. Smart right?
Mage use mostly 5 skills mostly in vs. Y'all can hate me but I'll tell them c(:
Fireball or gale/ice/light/shield/heal
I played mage pvp for a while in twink and endgame(31/36/41/46) and all i can say is mages just need to do as much damage with crit as they can vsing rogues and tanks. As for rogue i started vs with fire ice light and shield. Swapped one of attack skill for heal if needed but when rogue didn't used nekro then it wasn't even needed to use heal. For warriors gale was( maybe still is i dont know current pvp mage 56) pretty useful.

The reason why mage can be protected and rogue not by same tank is that mage have more skills that protects himself from enemies too and it take extra advantage over rogues. War use charged horn and shield comes. When shield gone they use nekro shield. When nekro shield is gone mage use his shield. Before his shield is halfcd his nekro is already ready so he use it. In same time war heal is ready and when mage nekro is done war nekro is ready to use. Mage shield is again ready to use. If team and mage know timing then mage will be under shield and heal over time whole time of clash. Rogue dont have it and thats why rogue is easier target to aim in clash. No shield = stun. Then mage rush you cause you cant do anything and just die. You can always use razor shield mastery in clash/vs but i dont think it will help much and none gonna waste points for it while nox mastery is much more useful and effective.
Questions to rogues
Answers: If i face skilled sorc in clash i cant even come close to him if he know that shield timing cause I'll die anyway. If he don't know shield timing i can try to risk... use nekro aa pray for stun and then rush mage so i can kill him. It works if you lucky so.
Clash skills : aimed shot/ nox bold / shadow pierce and combat medic.

[yubaraj]

Well everyone class thinks that buffing another "Skill" can be a good solution but it isn't, because Shadow Veil isn't good enough as like asking a warrior to use rally Cry, no one uses it and no one wants to use it ...
I was just giving an example.

BTW do you play pve? If yes then you should have known how op it is. There is no other skill on AL which gives that much buff for the whole party. Btw if you see the duration of veil my suggestion is gonna be op for rogues. Of course it will have some limitation as you need to stay inside the veil.

The problem is rogue are used to 3 attack skill , spam aimed nox pierce lol. If you look at other class. War and sorcerer are using 2 attack most of the time. We are sacrificing another attack skill for survibality.

Time to give up on your 3rd attacks too lol.

[Zeus]

Yap armor got nerfed for rogues.

BTW most people are confused. Rogue damage got buffed in PVP after global nerf. Before global nerf, rogue were affected by damage nerf which also resulted in not getting pet happiness damage buff. Now they are not.

And as far as aimed shot goes their overall damage got buffed. Only thing they lack in 56 team PVP is their survivality.

Instead of nerfing other class. Why don't you give little bit more damage reduction to rogue in some skill. For example give them damage reduction or armor of 30 40 % in shadow veil.

They're not confused. They still hit lower after the nerf as opposed to when they did before nerf. It's just that they were the least affected of all the classes.

[Zeus]

I was just giving an example.

BTW do you play pve? If yes then you should have known how op it is. There is no other skill on AL which gives that much buff for the whole party. Btw if you see the duration of veil my suggestion is gonna be op for rogues. Of course it will have some limitation as you need to stay inside the veil.

The problem is rogue are used to 3 attack skill , spam aimed nox pierce lol. If you look at other class. War and sorcerer are using 2 attack most of the time. We are sacrificing another attack skill for survibality.

Time to give up on your 3rd attacks too lol.

Shadow veil isn't OP, it's rarely used actually. Also, rogues really only have aimed shot. If you try to use SP in a group fight...you will get yourself killed. It's mainly used to rejoin due to the fact that we die a ridiculous amount.

[yubaraj]

Shadow veil isn't OP, it's rarely used actually. Also, rogues really only have aimed shot. If you try to use SP in a group fight...you will get yourself killed. It's mainly used to rejoin due to the fact that we die a ridiculous amount.
Lol.

Due to too much stun in new map, razor shield replaced veil, due to buff/bug fix in trap it replaced veil in past 2 seasons I guess. Before that I regard veil as op skill at least in pve. PvP, I already said rogues use 3 attack skill and they were surviving good enough. Now its not the case as some rogues thinks. So I was suggesting to give some survivability through other skill. It may need different approach or skill set but I am always agreeing on giving some survivability to endgame rogue not twink rogues lol.

BTW I am against class restriction and giving more damage to rogues if my vote counts . lol.

[Befs]

Rogues could already break my shield, and I an by no means maxed, but I still do have very formidable gear.

When you asked how tank vs. mage plays out it's basically this -

Mage runs around tank in circles, getting pulled back in by axe every few moments, while you cycle shield, spamming skills (healing when needed). If the tank pulls you in between shields, then rip. Assuming the tank doesn't catch you between shields, the mage will slowly wear down in a looonnng drawn out fight.

The mage basically tanks the tank.

[Zeus]

Lol.

Due to too much stun in new map, razor shield replaced veil, due to buff/bug fix in trap it replaced veil in past 2 seasons I guess. Before that I regard veil as op skill at least in pve. PvP, I already said rogues use 3 attack skill and they were surviving good enough. Now its not the case as some rogues thinks. So I was suggesting to give some survivability through other skill. It may need different approach or skill set but I am always agreeing on giving some survivability to endgame rogue not twink rogues lol.

BTW I am against class restriction and giving more damage to rogues if my vote counts . lol.

Rogues survive okay when it's not strictly warrior and sorcerer on other side. However, this has become common knowledge and this abused to the point where rogues are no longer needed in PvP.

I also prefer nobody gets nerfed, I agree with you on that.

[Alwarez]

How about buffing razor shield mastery dmg reduction to 40%? Rogue will get first useful mastery+live longer in clash+won`t need to nerf anything

[Luciano Lobo]

I completely disagree. What I suggest for a better survivability for rogues is give them at least 10% of there armor back if not all and after collecting data on PvP make decisions. I also in favor of class restriction on PvP. Stacking warrior is op. Make a 30% dmg reduction instead of 10% in razor shield mastery could be an option too. But please don't over complicate yourself making new formulas about dmg reduction, less seconds of HoR shield, etc. This affects the easy-going playing of the people because they will have to adjust there calculations too which is something that nobody wants. This makes people quit and stop buying platinum and playing the game in general. Don't make this game too complicated with formulas. Another aspect that you will have to take into consideration is the new arcane weapons mechanics. As far as I know mages and rogues they take it easily using them without any other playing mechanics. They equip the weapon and wait for the proc and that's all but the warrior now have to stay in low health and survive!!! to deal damage (if they do damage) but here you are planning to nerf their jugg (look how cool you are), charge their auto-attack and prevent to be stunned or panic. I also suggest more damage of the procs for the warrior new arcane weapons not based damage. Just don't mess up more the PvP aspect of the game. I've just read that you plan to nerf the shield of Nekro? As if everybody owns Nekro in the game but still wants to play PvP. Korruption is the one that should be fixed their AA should not cut off warrior's jugg.

[Crackerzseven]

I may not be the best warr..but I can't beat even a half decent mage...it's not even close..I lose against one with over a 100 less primary than me..if I axe throw one out of mob when I'm aiming for a rogue..I've learnt to leg it..as I won't win unless there 20% hp left and I'm full..against rogues i can win all things being equal it's much closer now they have new weapons..but me vs mage isn't anywhere near as close as me vs rogue....mages totally destroy warrs if there half decent...

[Eatdamage]

Why wont u guys re-evaluate weapons and their procs rather than completely changing class mechanics in all levels...

[Safiras]

Lol.

Due to too much stun in new map, razor shield replaced veil, due to buff/bug fix in trap it replaced veil in past 2 seasons I guess. Before that I regard veil as op skill at least in pve. PvP, I already said rogues use 3 attack skill and they were surviving good enough. Now its not the case as some rogues thinks. So I was suggesting to give some survivability through other skill. It may need different approach or skill set but I am always agreeing on giving some survivability to endgame rogue not twink rogues lol.

BTW I am against class restriction and giving more damage to rogues if my vote counts . lol.

People don't use shadow veil for the following reasons:

1. The damage bonus is 15%, which is the same as that provided by Nekro/Munch Mouth/SnS pet happiness bonus. So if you use Shadow Veil for that purpose, you essentially get nothing due to the inability of percentage buffs to stack and the "highest buff wins" nature of buff-debuff mechanics in the game.

2. If you're using Shadow Veil for the armor buff, there are so many pets that have an armor reduction ability that this buff is negated, because debuffs override all buffs in AL. And don't forget Aimed Shot's and Axe throw's armor reduction ability.

3. If you use Shadow Veil for the hit% reduction ability, this does not work for skills. You will get hit by a sorceror's Lightning or a warrior's Axe Throw all the same.

4. As everyone here has stated, Shadow Veil is a static skill. It only works within its area of effect. Drag the player out of its area and it's useless. Look at all the tanks using Axe Throw in PvP now, especially the good clash tanks with Glintstone set. It is near impossible that they let you stay inside Shadow Veil, especially in wide open zones like the Blood Beach TDM map.

All the reasons above explain why a rogue does not use Shadow Veil. In the context of PvP it is an utterly useless skill. It does nothing to improve the survival of a rogue (or for any other member of the team for that matter) and only decreases a rogue's effectiveness by taking away one skill slot meant for razor shield/noxious bolt.

Anyway, will continue to observe this thread with interest. Still feel that despite all these changes, with Nekro shield nerfed rogued will still have a hard time taking damage in PvP and will remain very vulnerable, but will think harder about the proposed changes beforr I offer my own thoughts.

[Blank119]

Good job sts, this is what im waiting for :) we should call this the 1st step for a great balance, instead of complaining everytime , we should appreciate them once. :)

[yubaraj]

People don't use shadow veil for the following reasons:

1. The damage bonus is 15%, which is the same as that provided by Nekro/Munch Mouth/SnS pet happiness bonus. So if you use Shadow Veil for that purpose, you essentially get nothing due to the inability of percentage buffs to stack and the "highest buff wins" nature of buff-debuff mechanics in the game.

2. If you're using Shadow Veil for the armor buff, there are so many pets that have an armor reduction ability that this buff is negated, because debuffs override all buffs in AL. And don't forget Aimed Shot's and Axe throw's armor reduction ability.

3. If you use Shadow Veil for the hit% reduction ability, this does not work for skills. You will get hit by a sorceror's Lightning or a warrior's Axe Throw all the same.

4. As everyone here has stated, Shadow Veil is a static skill. It only works within its area of effect. Drag the player out of its area and it's useless. Look at all the tanks using Axe Throw in PvP now, especially the good clash tanks with Glintstone set. It is near impossible that they let you stay inside Shadow Veil, especially in wide open zones like the Blood Beach TDM map.

All the reasons above explain why a rogue does not use Shadow Veil. In the context of PvP it is an utterly useless skill. It does nothing to improve the survival of a rogue (or for any other member of the team for that matter) and only decreases a rogue's effectiveness by taking away one skill slot meant for razor shield/noxious bolt.

Anyway, will continue to observe this thread with interest. Still feel that despite all these changes, with Nekro shield nerfed rogued will still have a hard time taking damage in PvP and will remain very vulnerable, but will think harder about the proposed changes beforr I offer my own thoughts.

Crystal clear. Its been a long time I quit rogue.

Anyways I was suggesting to give a buff to shadow veil so it can be used in PvP. Or any other skill which can be helpful in clash situation.

Anyways I appreciate devs taking steps to fix the issue.

[intrepd]

Thank you for taking actions, I personally like this fix, if rogues are going to die fast then at least they should deal enough damage to others, mages should think before rushing a rogue because if she survived she can deal a great amount of damage, it just didn't sound fair thst only clashes was for tanks and mages, now rogues will be used as well.

-I am a Mage.

[Alwarez]

give a buff to shadow veil so it can be used in PvP


How we can use veil with all the glint set tanks out there? Veil will remain useless unless it will make rogue invisible or able to dodge skills, all of these aren't gonna happen im sure.

[( DAMAGE )]

mages crush rogues in clashes coz mages got the invincibility and the insane damage..when rogues got the damage but no defense.....a rogue would be taking damage from the mage and surrounding players...when the mage has that op shield..IMO nerfing shield is needed or nerfing mages damage...
tanks vs mages...its simple..since that 50% damage reduction to all classes..tanks cant do much damage vs mages since mages can time their nekro followed by arcane shield and on an endless rotation..while tanks got their jugg with a 44 second cd and tanks heal since the 50% damage reduction can barely heal 60-70% of tanks full health...so practically a tank has that nekro shield time plus jugg time to kill the mage..if not killed then definitely mage will win...and since mages can rotate shields they can almost never get stunned..
a good geared skilled mage can easily beat a good geared skilled tank.....
same goes for rogues vs mages...all it takes a rogue is to outlive mage shield and rogue wins


rogues should be the main damage dealers in a clash..but who would want a rogue if they can have a mage which will offer support mana/heal/stun and insane damage...and they live longer.....id say keep mage shield as it is just nerf their overall damage
And rogues definitely dont need to be more tanky! it will only ruin the game more...as their damage is too op.
and korruption needs a fix as well...it should have the same affect on all classes not just warriors!

[yubaraj]

How we can use veil with all the glint set tanks out there? Veil will remain useless unless it will make rogue invisible or able to dodge skills, all of these aren't gonna happen im sure.

There is an answer in your question. Play with tanks lol. Try to maintain distance. Axe skill do have cool down. Get the insane buff from veil and party can benefit too may be or maybe not [need to ask Safira]. Btw I see most of the rogues spamming there combo without seeing what's going on. Tips: hit other class when they are invulnerable not when they have invincibility.

Question is what rogue gives in a clash to party? Something maybe nothing . how about they buff other party like HOR benefits whole party. Mage can stun everyone with fire. Something something . why rogues only think about getting the kills? Is KDR that important?

Btw glintset is 46. How long that gonna last? I hope STS may release some anti glint set in upcoming event.

Anyways I was just giving an example.

Ps I m a noob mage.

[intrepd]

There is an answer in your question. Play with tanks lol. Try to maintain distance. Axe skill do have cool down. Get the insane buff from veil and party can benefit too may be or maybe not [need to ask Safira]. Btw I see most of the rogues spamming there combo without seeing what's going on. Tips: hit other class when they are invulnerable not when they have invincibility.

Question is what rogue gives in a clash to party? Something maybe nothing . how about they buff other party like HOR benefits whole party. Mage can stun everyone with fire. Something something . why rogues only think about getting the kills? Is KDR that important?

Btw glintset is 46. How long that gonna last? I hope STS may release some anti glint set in upcoming event.

Anyways I was just giving an example.

Ps I m a noob mage.


Rogues has no way in benefiting the team other than dealing as much damage and killing the enemy, they can't cover or heal team unless team eats the packs which i doubt they would during clash lol. Thats why they care about kills because they are suppose to deal high damage and kill asap or else they are no use.

[Safiras]

There is an answer in your question. Play with tanks lol. Try to maintain distance. Axe skill do have cool down. Get the insane buff from veil and party can benefit too may be or maybe not [need to ask Safira]. Btw I see most of the rogues spamming there combo without seeing what's going on. Tips: hit other class when they are invulnerable not when they have invincibility.

Question is what rogue gives in a clash to party? Something maybe nothing . how about they buff other party like HOR benefits whole party. Mage can stun everyone with fire. Something something . why rogues only think about getting the kills? Is KDR that important?

Btw glintset is 46. How long that gonna last? I hope STS may release some anti glint set in upcoming event.

Anyways I was just giving an example.

Ps I m a noob mage.

If you read my previous post, you will know that there is no useful buff from shadow veil at the moment, either to the rogue or to the team. And your comment about playing with tanks is not very thoughtful. I frankly do not like the idea that rogues should be so reliant on another class to survive.

[yubaraj]

If you read my previous post, you will know that there is no useful buff from shadow veil at the moment, either to the rogue or to the team. And your comment about playing with tanks is not very thoughtful. I frankly do not like the idea that rogues should be so reliant on another class to survive.

You are one of the experienced rogue so I ask you. will buffing shadow veil or any other skill work in PvP? If yes how? If not what can be the solutions? Think about team and vs situation too.

Other class will cry later if it turns to be a rogue legends again.

And yes team should consist of all the classes . even mages depend upon warrior or rogue sometime and vice versa. I eat rogues healthpacks lol so yes they sometime help in a clash. If they get angry for eating packs then why should I bother healing and giving mana.

so I want to see every class work as a team. Team work guys.

#buffroguesurvival
#nonerfingplz

[Kriticality]

mages crush rogues in clashes coz mages got the invincibility and the insane damage..when rogues got the damage but no defense.....a rogue would be taking damage from the mage and surrounding players...when the mage has that op shield..IMO nerfing shield is needed or nerfing mages damage...
tanks vs mages...its simple..since that 50% damage reduction to all classes..tanks cant do much damage vs mages since mages can time their nekro followed by arcane shield and on an endless rotation..while tanks got their jugg with a 44 second cd and tanks heal since the 50% damage reduction can barely heal 60-70% of tanks full health...so practically a tank has that nekro shield time plus jugg time to kill the mage..if not killed then definitely mage will win...and since mages can rotate shields they can almost never get stunned..
a good geared skilled mage can easily beat a good geared skilled tank.....
same goes for rogues vs mages...all it takes a rogue is to outlive mage shield and rogue wins


rogues should be the main damage dealers in a clash..but who would want a rogue if they can have a mage which will offer support mana/heal/stun and insane damage...and they live longer.....id say keep mage shield as it is just nerf their overall damage
And rogues definitely dont need to be more tanky! it will only ruin the game more...as their damage is too op.
and korruption needs a fix as well...it should have the same affect on all classes not just warriors!

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[extrapayah]

i understand about the concern that damage reduction buff significance is becoming way too significance, making us depend way too much on it, and in that case, rogue is at the disadvantage, because they don't have significance damage reduction skill,

but probably this will also make fights in pvp ended way too fast that can make network delay differences become more significance than that what people are calling skills/quick fingers/judgement, so you might also want to add more nerfs to damage than the current one.

either way, you can always do trial and error, pvp balance is definitely hard to achieve, so i think it's not something to be ashamed of if you are going to make changes. but then again, this is also mmorpg game, where making changes in games can cause additional cost for changing gears and skillset, not like moba

anyway, talking about healing skills, i think there are some heal skills that had been nerfed too much, healing skills that were previously insignificant in pve and having low significance in pvp. i think these skills need to be re-addressed too

also, a bit out of topic, some of us were discussing about ctf off-forum, how about:
1. remove kill counter in ctf
2. reset flag stat, reduce ap count for flags, and consider every flags taken as team's point
3. use ctf's corridor-based map as 3rd deathmatch map

[Safiras]

You are one of the experienced rogue so I ask you. will buffing shadow veil or any other skill work in PvP? If yes how? If not what can be the solutions? Think about team and vs situation too.

Other class will cry later if it turns to be a rogue legends again.

And yes team should consist of all the classes . even mages depend upon warrior or rogue sometime and vice versa. I eat rogues healthpacks lol so yes they sometime help in a clash. If they get angry for eating packs then why should I bother healing and giving mana.

so I want to see every class work as a team. Team work guys.

#buffroguesurvival
#nonerfingplz

Off the top of my head I have 2 suggestions if you want Shadow Veil to be adjusted:

1. Convert the damage and armor buffs from a percentage to a raw number, something like what was done for our damage passive. This will ensure that the buffs actually contribute to our working stats and will not be wiped by a debuff.

2. Modify the skill into an Aura-type skill. Meaning, when the rogue uses Shadow Veil, she is surrounded by the veil which moves with her and buffs her and the teammates around her. This is perhaps the best way to modify the skill to counteract the ability of Axe Throw to pull rogues away from the area of effect of Shadow veil. Coupled with the first suggestion, this will make the rogue an essential support unit as a rogue using Veil will make the team hit harder and be harder to kill. Having said this, there may be a need to prevent stacking of Shadow Veil effects as multiple rogues using Shadow Veil in this form may buff the team too much thus unbalancing the fight with stacking of rogues. Some people may feel this is an overlap with what Razor shield can do, but note that Razor Shield gives damage reduction and no extra damage, and also that Razor shield has the unique upgrade which gives immunity to stuns and panic which Shadow Veil does not have.

[yubaraj]

mages crush rogues in clashes coz mages got the invincibility and the insane damage..when rogues got the damage but no defense.....a rogue would be taking damage from the mage and surrounding players...when the mage has that op shield..IMO nerfing shield is needed or nerfing mages damage...
tanks vs mages...its simple..since that 50% damage reduction to all classes..tanks cant do much damage vs mages since mages can time their nekro followed by arcane shield and on an endless rotation..while tanks got their jugg with a 44 second cd and tanks heal since the 50% damage reduction can barely heal 60-70% of tanks full health...so practically a tank has that nekro shield time plus jugg time to kill the mage..if not killed then definitely mage will win...and since mages can rotate shields they can almost never get stunned..
a good geared skilled mage can easily beat a good geared skilled tank.....
same goes for rogues vs mages...all it takes a rogue is to outlive mage shield and rogue wins


rogues should be the main damage dealers in a clash..but who would want a rogue if they can have a mage which will offer support mana/heal/stun and insane damage...and they live longer.....id say keep mage shield as it is just nerf their overall damage
And rogues definitely dont need to be more tanky! it will only ruin the game more...as their damage is too op.
and korruption needs a fix as well...it should have the same affect on all classes not just warriors!

Really lol. Rock is fine . Nerf scissor . that's the theory you have.

So you are a warrior who thinks rogue is fine but mage is op. Warrior still is most important class in PvP clash I think.

I did not remember all you have said but I see you saying Nerf mage thing. Why only mage because you loose vs with them?

As rogues are crying that they do not have place on clash PvP. I feel that too so I am agreeing on that and hope it will get fixed. Everyone will be happy . (almost impossible)

I agree to disagree in your mage nerfing idea.
Nerf warrior Nerf rogue make mage op. That's what I want.

[yubaraj]

Off the top of my head I have 2 suggestions if you want Shadow Veil to be adjusted:

1. Convert the damage and armor buffs from a percentage to a raw number, something like what was done for our damage passive. This will ensure that the buffs actually contribute to our working stats and will not be wiped by a debuff.

2. Modify the skill into an Aura-type skill. Meaning, when the rogue uses Shadow Veil, she is surrounded by the veil which moves with her and buffs her and the teammates around her. This is perhaps the best way to modify the skill to counteract the ability of Axe Throw to pull rogues away from the area of effect of Shadow veil. Coupled with the first suggestion, this will make the rogue an essential support unit as a rogue using Veil will make the team hit harder and be harder to kill. Having said this, there may be a need to prevent stacking of Shadow Veil effects as multiple rogues using Shadow Veil in this form may buff the team too much thus unbalancing the fight with stacking of rogues. Some people may feel this is an overlap with what Razor shield can do, but note that Razor Shield gives damage reduction and no extra damage, and also that Razor shield has the unique upgrade which gives immunity to stuns and panic which Shadow Veil does not have.

I hope that won't make rogue op. I play mage so hehe.

Anyways nice suggestion. I hope they implement these ideas instead of nerfing other class.

[( DAMAGE )]

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1st half of your reply has a point but i completely agree on the second half..
rogues were the rulers of all classes even when most of the players themselvs didnt have any skills at all!
that why im totally against any rogue defence buff..if rogues become more tanky they would own and ruin the game balance completely..especially after their nerf and re buff they became more op!
i still disagree on mage shield nerf as i suggest a slight damage nerf to make the balance! then again thats my personal opinion.

[Hpnvx]

Forget nerfing classes, nerf korr, 3 korr in your spawn is a living hell trying to re group with your team, if your going to nerf tanks heals, might as well nerf kor.

[( DAMAGE )]

Really lol. Rock is fine . Nerf scissor . that's the theory you have.

So you are a warrior who thinks rogue is fine but mage is op. Warrior still is most important class in PvP clash I think.

I did not remember all you have said but I see you saying Nerf mage thing. Why only mage because you loose vs with them?

As rogues are crying that they do not have place on clash PvP. I feel that too so I am agreeing on that and hope it will get fixed. Everyone will be happy . (almost impossible)

I agree to disagree in your mage nerfing idea.
Nerf warrior Nerf rogue make mage op. That's what I want.

its not the fact that i lose or win vs mages! but the dev asked how the vs goes between a tank and a mage in a comment above if u look back a page or 2!
2nd i dont want a nerf to any class as i dont want a buff to rogues!
but if they were to balance the need of rogues in clashes i only see that reducing the mages damage would be the only way to do so and not the arcane shield! because then a team will have to decide what they need support and control or damage!
PS Nerfing the mages arcane shield will just doom the class and mages will be completely useless!

[( DAMAGE )]

Forget nerfing classes, nerf korr, 3 korr in your spawn is a living hell trying to re group with your team, if your going to nerf tanks heals, might as well nerf kor.

totally agree that pet is like a glitch.
+1

[Hpnvx]

Funny how some here asking for survivability where there's a pet that can literally whipe out any sort of heal over time that a rogue will get when crossing towards dps....so I doubt that rogues will be any good against a kor stack, against tanks and mages when the nerf applies on tanks and mages also on nekro shield....

[Mucsi]

Rogues able to cut my half health by one combo and break my jugg too even it's charged! Give them back their armor, do not ruin warriors and mages again like in 36/41/46.. (ik and Idc wars got buff at 46).

[Mucsi]

Just for seeing it clearly.. If my jugg on, rogues able to hit me around 2k.. If this will duplicate, that's mean rogues will able to hit 4k! When my jugg on.. Since I have just 9500 hp and 2700 armor, I'll be 1combo again like in 41/46. Dps clashes, here we go. Warriors= useless
Mages= 1hit (nothing changed)

[Amsosorry]

First korruption, now your nerfing jugg/heal, when it already uselese against this pet. BS

[Trick]

You seriously cant mean youll nerf our shield? As Anyona said, our shield already gets broken after 2 combos. We need the reduction to survive. Please dont do this.

[Eskaygee]

Just give rogues some armor back and call it even.

[Kingofninjas]

I don't think the biggest issue is mage survival here. It is an issue, but not the biggest one. It has already been proved that rogues can take down mages very quickly through duels. The real issue is the damage mages and tanks deal, more specifically area damage.

Speaking of a clash scenario between a team of 2 tanks 3 mages vs 2 tanks 2 mages 1 rogue. If the rogue wants to contribute to the team, they need to step out of hiding shoot at least an aimed shot and nox bolt. Now both these tanks have glintstone sets. There are axes flying around at an average rate of 1 axe every .875 seconds. This makes it next to impossible for the rogue to time their aimed shots such that they don't get axed. If nekro shield is down, being hit by 1-2 axes, 1-3 fireballs and 1-2 skyward smashes means instant death for the rogue.

If the rogue tries to rush and kill the mage quickly, like they are meant to. All the axes, fireballs, lightnings and skyward smashes will kill them even through Nekro shield. By some miracle, if the rogue manages to survive, they are feeble have no hope of killing anything.

This does not affect the mages as much because most often we can either heal and escape from enemy territory, or shield and run back.

Given this, I dont think nerfing the mage shield damage reduction will help very much as mages will simply wait back for the rogue to get axed. And mages can survive getting axed because of the 2 second invulnerability, not the damage reduction. I won't deny that it will certainly help though.

Reducing the invulnerability of horn of renew will not help as it is rogues who benefit most from this as they do not have any skill that grants them invulnerability.

[ilmercenario]

This only going to unbalance game more, only coz rogs cry u nerf wars nd mages? Just give a buff to rogs we tanks alrdy are papers rogs get us at 20/25%hp with one combo, aim-nox,pierce ... This aint a balance thats the proof devs doesent play al

[Kharjojo]

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This ^^ very well spoken!

[mathod]

Reading this thread only one thing figures on my mind, u shoud do something with rogue skill like razor shield, nerfing doesn't exit here. I would add more dmg reducing on mastery up to 40% uncharged, 50% charged. Also would be good if u can increase range of arrow skills. I see rogue class like weak on weight, but very dang(means op dmg critical hit) ninjas who's hard to catch. Thx for productive discussing and look at this situation

[Fredystern]

Great i hate it

Rogue in 47 only need 3times combo a mage to break my shield, and sure i use heal at the second combo or ill die with my shield together, now you reduce the shield absorb?
Lets try mage vs rogue in 56, rogue is unstunable if they got a good timing to use nekro AA and razor, so as a mage i didnt see myself as a stunner at pvp, nice update nerf everything buff rogue!! Let rogue is the best on PvP again, i wanted a balance like in 41 cap that was the best i think

And you only make the damage 1k usually rogue hit 3k not 1k, wkth critical sure thats hurt enough to a mage and warrior, even rogue vs rogue mostly who combo thier enemy will won, dont nerf mage they already lack of damage output, armor and health

And i agree with alot of people that rogue is replaced by a mage in clash, the question is why?
I think its because mage was doing alot of damage cause lf our skill type that do AoE and DoT, then rogue?Small AoE and mostly focus on 1enemy, but when they hit tank, they will just like wasting thier mana for skill since warrior could go back and heal regen then comeback again, well lets try then if you guys say mage was the best in clash, 4mage vs 4 rogue, i sure mage won lol except thier rogue is really really good on aiming, even 4tank stack will lose if face againts 1warrior with glint set and 3 wellplayed mage.
Just dont nerf mage anymore or mage will become a dummy again forever, dont just think anout rogue damage output 1k in 56 even in 47 was already atleast 2k without critical and rogue make alot of critical you forget it? Just grant rogue a damage reduction in PvP or give them back thier armor

[Ireliaa]

Our understanding of the PvP at endgame based on your posts in other threads is:

In duels:
Rogues > Sorcerers
Sorcerers > Warriors (can someone explain to me how this fight plays out?)
Warriors > Rogues

As others have stated, this is a form of Rock Paper Scissors. This is ok with us, we don't want to upset this balance (though we would like it if player skill can win any of these battles).

Some factors that would help us when considering duels that players can answer:
1) How one-sided are the duel battles right now? For example is the Rogue > Sorcerer battle close, but Rogues usually win? Or is the battle one sided with the Rogue having more than 50% hp while the Sorcerer dies? The same for the Sorcerer vs Warrior matchup, and the Warrior vs Rogue matchup.
2) What skills are typically taken in a 1v1 battle (that aren't taken in a Clash)

In Clashes:
Warriors: Feel good. Sufficiently tanky, with potential damage output.
Sorcerers: Feel good. Squishy but have the ability to survive with shields and good play with Warriors. Damage is ok.
Rogues: Do not feel good. Going up against more than 1 Warrior or Sorcerer leads to not enough damage output to take down a single character before dying.


Rogues are meant to be glass cannons as many players have mentioned. Based on the Duel scenario, it sounds like Rogues are living up to this. They win the duel in which they out-burst the tankiness of their opponent (Sorcerers), they lose the duel in which they cannot burst their opponent down (Warriors).

What we want to look at now is why Rogues cannot perform the same role in Clashes when facing multiple Warriors or Sorcerers. I have seen players mention that Sorcerers can be protected by a good tank, but for some reason a Rogue can not be protected by that same tank. From what players have said, in Clashes a Rogue can't put out enough dps to be effective.

Questions I have about this scenario for Rogues:
1) In a Clash if you're able to get to the Sorcerer, do you feel you can kill them (like you can in a duel)?
2) What skills are typically taken in a Clash (that aren't taken in a Duel)


These are the thoughts that have led us to examining the disparity of PvP adjustments. Rogue's damage has been reduced, but the ability for other classes to survive (as players have mentioned, Rogues don't have many tools to increase survivability) was not. Our desires from this discussion is to target the best way to adjust that without affecting other balances system (specifically duels).

Note:
In terms of these changes happening, we're firmly listening to the community on this one. What we've written is our proposed changes and nothing is going to go live or be tested until a discussion has happened, so please give your feedback on the problem :)

one of the main reason we cant take out mages while under protection of warr is the infamous arcane sword proc and 3 axe pulls.

we are single target damage when we get pulled or atack from range, enemy warr tanks the damage but when mage atack, their skill hits aoe so same warr cant able to protect us


and as you mentioned its nothing like vs , because mage rogue battle is generally close one where as undergeared warr vs max geared rogue losing because of the arcane sword not the skill set of warrior and if you add glintstone set into this it makes it imposible

so if we compare if we are gonna lose to warrior by far, not close battle( yea warr takes 2 even 3 vs 1 rogue on ease) mage shield reduction is justified

[JesuisCharlie]

To me, the problem come from Shadow Veil too. You designed each skills trees with a precise goal and gave importance to each skills and shadow veil is the big loser.
The actual Shadow Veil dont fit with the rogue concept and gameplay its just not enought fast, not instant at all unlike all rogue skills and the point you can chose for the bomb explode at the end is very very useless both on PVP and PVE.

[Ireliaa]

i suggest make kdrless pvp for a while to test senarios like this

[matiusjohntw]

You nerfed rogue's aim, now u will nerf mage's shield and war's jugg, then rogue's aim will have the same 'taste' like it was before :)

Sent from my ASUS_Z00RD using Tapatalk

[Ireliaa]

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

when undergeared warr takes the very maxed geared rogue on ease this isnt a problem, but you want advantage over rogue

sure you are right it also hurts me to get wrecked by arcane sword a 2m item vs 3 para rings noble finesses 56 arcane weapons etc

mage rogue battle generally close one yet 1 warr can take equally geared 2 rogue without a sweat, tell me how is this balanced rock paper scissor ?

[JesuisCharlie]

Sorry for the double post but i forgot to mention the best quality of shadow veil expiration point: the little smoothie wonderful explosion!
Maybe it can absorb the players eyes arround and allow the rogue to escape like nothing happenned?

[Fredystern]

when undergeared warr takes the very maxed geared rogue on ease this isnt a problem, but you want advantage over rogue

sure you are right it also hurts me to get wrecked by arcane sword a 2m item vs 3 para rings noble finesses 56 arcane weapons etc

mage rogue battle generally close one yet 1 warr can take equally geared 2 rogue without a sweat, tell me how is this balanced rock paper scissor ?

Mage vs warr = mostly warr win wuth dirty spamming lava trick
Mage vs rog = lets see who gear was better
Rog vs warr = mostly warrior win with dirty trick too

[reiewaun]

If you want to nerf mages shields, I want my damage buffed and some sort of skill that reduces armor. You're right about the rock paper scissors thing but its the point where rogues with less gear than me are killing me which I don't feel like that should be the case.

I believe all the duel scenario's you mentioned are one sided. And as for skills I use in a duel they're:

(Vs Rogues and Tanks)
Shield
Heal
Light
Ice
(Using nekro)

(Vs Rogues)
Or:
Shield
Light
Fireball
Ice
(Using Shady and Surge)

I feel that Rogue V Mage is very luck dependant on the mages part as you're very dependant on auto attacks landing and critical hits. Where as Tank V Mage it is much easier due to you being able to alternate shields and heal when needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
U obviously doing something wrong or the rouge u faced wasn't undergeared as u thought

[Ireliaa]

Mage vs warr = mostly warr win wuth dirty spamming lava trick
Mage vs rog = lets see who gear was better
Rog vs warr = mostly warrior win with dirty trick too

in all classes better gear should win. it was like that pre introduction of 46 arcane weapons and armor nerf

[Fredystern]

Ya but the arc sword 46 proc was so annoying, if that was skill its ok but, its only proc but do alot of damage

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

[Gaviinn]

Those suggestions are awesome

[soon]

I wanted changes in rogue survival capacity in pve. Skills like viel lose to buff armor doll.

[reiewaun]

Mage vs warr = mostly warr win wuth dirty spamming lava trick
Mage vs rog = lets see who gear was better
Rog vs warr = mostly warrior win with dirty trick too

U can't be losing from war

[Anyona]

U obviously doing something wrong or the rouge u faced wasn't undergeared as u thought

Any rogue with the 56 arcanes take you down from 100-30 within a combo.


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[Horme]

Greetings Arlorians!

We've appreciated all feedback players have been posted after the corrections to Aimed Shot as well as the current state of Rogues in PvP. Due to the nature of the thread, we have taken another look at overall PvP balance based on the issues that players have brought up, and have found something we want to address.

Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

Proposed Changes:
1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.
3) The duration of the invulnerability upgrade on Horn of Renew will be reduced (in PvP only) from 2/3 seconds to 1/1.5 seconds.
4) Reduce the amount of Nekro's Arcane Ability Damage Reduction in PvP
5) Allow Juggernaut's upgrade to work even inside of a Korruption Pool (there's debate whether this is considered healing 'over time')


While this is our current plan, because of the nature of PvP, we are looking for feedback from the players on this. If the discussion goes well this will be released next Thursday's patch!

See you on Blood Beach,
-STSVroom

How do you considering damage reduction is the problem?, At lvl 15 mage shield broken easily by rogue aimed shot, and nekro rogue can,t be stunned. Rogue OP in pvp because they can use 3 damaging skill, warrior and mage maximum 2 dmaging skill, with rogue that can't be stunned during nekro ability they can spam everything before they get stunned. I'm talking from twink perspective.

[arcanefid]

Warrior armor is not even close to 4,000 by the way. Unless we go full Diamond jewels which isn't what warriors use.

[Zulgath]

It wasnt Rock Paper Scissors anymore lately

Mage>Rogue
Mage>Tank
Tank>Rogue

[foreveryoung]

Tank>mage
Mage>rogue
Rogue>tank

[Pedgon]

Greetings Arlorians!

We've appreciated all feedback players have been posted after the corrections to Aimed Shot as well as the current state of Rogues in PvP. Due to the nature of the thread, we have taken another look at overall PvP balance based on the issues that players have brought up, and have found something we want to address.

Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

Proposed Changes:
1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.
3) The duration of the invulnerability upgrade on Horn of Renew will be reduced (in PvP only) from 2/3 seconds to 1/1.5 seconds.
4) Reduce the amount of Nekro's Arcane Ability Damage Reduction in PvP
5) Allow Juggernaut's upgrade to work even inside of a Korruption Pool (there's debate whether this is considered healing 'over time')


While this is our current plan, because of the nature of PvP, we are looking for feedback from the players on this. If the discussion goes well this will be released next Thursday's patch!

See you on Blood Beach,
-STSVroom

I understand the examples, but saying that a rogue does 1000 base damage to a tank is non-sense, the example should be done with higher amount of base damage, coz that example isn't real..at all! Also, most of the warriors have 3k or less armor in PvP lol so...

1) Yes. But mages will complain...and a lot! lol There are many reasons why mages are better than rogues for clashes these days, this is definitely 1 of them. Mage it's just too good when "tanking", while with nek and arcane shield on lol And also for 1x1 between mage and tank, it's almost impossible for tank to break the cycle (heal, arc shiel, nek shield) lol
2) Yes. HP buff is not what makes Juggernaut effective, damage reduction combined with heals when below 40% is what matters to keep tank alive.
3) NO, JUST NO! Invulnerability is 3 sec right now in PvP, but it actually looks more like 2 sec, due the "delay" on 1st sec..so reducing it to 1/1.5 sec will create a problem on tank survivability; right now, we can heal..let's say..around 2k (1000x2) while with shield, if it gets nerfed, we will only heal 1 time before losing shield, and if low HP this is a problem in survivability. Also a problem when clashing for keeping team alive! When getting stunned (2-4 sec, depending on type of stun) this is, again, another issue, if shield goes away very fast..
4) NO. This will totally change PvP..especially clashes, for all classes! And it will likely "cancel" the effects of Global 50% nerf. Also...as a tank, and combining this topic with previous one, this is an even bigger problem for warrior survivability.
5) YES YES YES. I believe entire community agrees on this. lol :D

[Safiras]

Most of these changes are geared at making tanks and mages easier to kill. Most of us to be honest don't want that. We want a single clash to last longer, we want to be able to survive one combo and then be able to come back for more. Alot of times it comes down to one combo one kill. I'd like PvP to be more tactical and calculated than that. It's not that rogues can't kill tanks or mages. We can, but it's just that we die way too easily and we are heavily dependent on the other two classes to support us. If there was a way that rogues can support the other team in ways other than damage, or a way for rogues to temporarily and briefly survive a nuke from the other team, that might help things even up.

[Plqgue]

To those mentioning Nekro, we would be evaluating a reduction in the shield of Nekro's AA accordingly as part of this. I'll update my posts with that notion.
Pls don't destroy nekro in pve because of pvp

[jjperez27]

Nerf is not an answer!!
Give back the damaged,crit,armor of the rogue as well as the war heal and mage shield
That way pvp will be balanced and good!

[Nikool991]

If shields are going to be nerf you might aswell reduced the cooldown of those skills...because everybody knows mages are the most squishy class in this game..and if that shields poops too fast...its a 1 hit goodbye for mage..why not make mage more of a support class on pvp..so the rogues can still have the roles of dps in pvp

[Fredystern]

U can't be losing from war

Sure why not, if the warr just spamming lava and pull me to lava than i could die sooo fast, try to make yourself a mage and vs a war with arc sword 46 you'll know what i mean to

[Zeus]

Here's my points:

1. Entire reason rogue can survive even a little bit right now is due to Nekro shield. Developers need to test what happens to rogue when they do not have a Nekro shield. This is exactly what ends up happening in clash. You wait for the rogue's Nekro shield to go down, then you rush him or her and light him or her up.

2. Nerfs are not the answer. Buffs are. Nerfs make people want to quit because time invested in their character ends up being for nothing. This should have been realized when rogue armor was nerfed.

3. Increase rogue contribution to a team. It's abysmal, at best. That is what needs to be fixed and it needs to be done in a way that does not include nerfing the other classes.


Suggestions:

1. 50% damage reduction on razor shield
2. Increasing potency of Aimed Shot
3. Heavy armor increase (must combine with another suggestion, or it alone won't work)

If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to chime in.

[Zeus]

If shields are going to be nerf you might aswell reduced the cooldown of those skills...because everybody knows mages are the most squishy class in this game..and if that shields poops too fast...its a 1 hit goodbye for mage..why not make mage more of a support class on pvp..so the rogues can still have the roles of dps in pvp

Let's be realistic, sorcerers are not the squishiest class in the game. 2 years ago, that statement was true. Now, that statement is just made to garner sympathy for your class.

[Plqgue]

Very few mages have this insane damage you talking about. The prob with nerfing the whole class like nerfing aimshot is not what happens in max clash but what happens to all the rest of the mages in game. Mid and low level mages absolutely need damage and shield. If rogue can one or 2 combo me then any mid geared Mage will be crushed. And tbh, if I spent 200m on my Mage, I would hope to have some advantages over a rogue that paid 10m for pet and weapon and use some beetle gear. The other issue with these particular nerfs for Mage and warrior is a complete rework of jewels. Rogue can grab mm 6m compensate for armor loss. Give rogue damage and their armor back. But what's suggested here is nerfing mages and tanks class defining skill. Shield is mages aimed shot. Jugg is tanks aimed shot. Rogue was fine before damage nerf. Mage stack still strong but rogues had a place. This will promote more Mage stack. 2 or 3 mages throw shield up and destroy the rogue. Rogues are better 1 v 1 than Mage. Mages flourish more in the team environment. To make rogues more useful than mages in clash I would ask for mages to be more useful in duel than rogue. I've had several people pm me today rip mages. Even the rogues know this is too much. Keep in mind, I've been big advocate of buffing rogues. But in the same way a Mage should be tentative to rush a rogue, rogues need to be tentative to come behind the tanks at mages. Mistakes on both sides should be punished.

The balance lies between where we are now and where we were at 41. Terminator rogues must not exist again. They rule pve. They ruled pvp. That's a no no. I'm not trying to get handled by a rogue that spent 30m or 1/5 of what I did. An equally geared rogue should beat a Mage and they do. A 20m rogue should have no chance against me. They ruled for the longest season in al history. We want balance now. Tanks and mages are fine. Give the rogues their armor and play with the damage numbers. It's simple. I've been saying this and everyone got salty. Now the other two classes may get a nerf to their class defining skills. Fine maybe but definitely renerf aimed shot. It's not just the best skill for rogue. It's the best skill in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1
#11chars

[donniezhibet]

i agree if u nerf mage shield, but dont nerf warrior, just give rogue some damage reduction, problem solved...

koruption is best pet for killing warrior, i hope u release new pet for killing mages and rogues
thanks... :)

[donniezhibet]

i agree with u zeuz....
nerf makes people boring do pvp..
if sts want balance give rogues damage reduction.. problem solved

[diimitrii]

Mages get nerfed lately, with this arc shield nerf we will have no chance in pvp, what? The way it is now in pvp is good imo, just keep it this way :)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T560 met Tapatalk

[Niixed]

Devs

In the meeting earlier this week in which this course of action was decided, was there a spot at the table for the players? Someone should be acting as the in-house player advocate (devil's advocate? ;) ). Players feel dictated to and left out of the decision making process, which, as you're witnessing here, creates turmoil and resentment. If these nerfs must happen, it would help immensely if you laid out the reasons why you believe nerfing is the best strategy in this scenario. Also, please tell us why you think no other course of action is viable. Some players have made suggestions that seem simple, logical and don't involve nerfing, but there hasn't been any response to them.

[Oaheuzihar]

In my opinion, the issue with endgame pvp is that rogues got nerfed too hard on their armor. All i need to do is use sheild, charge fireball, hope i don't get dual crit while doing this, then use a stunning AA and another charged fireball and sheild and keep cycling this. Me and my friends don't die while doing this cuz we are using mage gear that gives a lot of HP plus our passive attribute points area split between INT and STR. The only time we die is when the rogue gets lucky with dodge.

TL;DR Rogues need some, but not all, of their armor back.

[Zeus]

In my opinion, the issue with endgame pvp is that rogues got nerfed too hard on their armor. All i need to do is use sheild, charge fireball, hope i don't get dual crit while doing this, then use a stunning AA and another charged fireball and sheild and keep cycling this. Me and my friends don't die while doing this cuz we are using mage gear that gives a lot of HP plus our passive attribute points area split between INT and STR. The only time we die is when the rogue gets lucky with dodge.

TL;DR Rogues need some, but not all, of their armor back.

They need more than just that, because even when they had their armor back...mage stack was a recurring issue.

[yubaraj]

Here's my points:

1. Entire reason rogue can survive even a little bit right now is due to Nekro shield. Developers need to test what happens to rogue when they do not have a Nekro shield. This is exactly what ends up happening in clash. You wait for the rogue's Nekro shield to go down, then you rush him or her and light him or her up.

2. Nerfs are not the answer. Buffs are. Nerfs make people want to quit because time invested in their character ends up being for nothing. This should have been realized when rogue armor was nerfed.

3. Increase rogue contribution to a team. It's abysmal, at best. That is what needs to be fixed and it needs to be done in a way that does not include nerfing the other classes.


Suggestions:

1. 50% damage reduction on razor shield
2. Increasing potency of Aimed Shot
3. Heavy armor increase (must combine with another suggestion, or it alone won't work)

If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to chime in.

Your suggestion will make the rogue a ultimate killer.

50% reduction sounds like giving arcane shield to a rogue.

I have more to say but I don't have time to write all those things . later

[resurrected]

Your suggestion will make the rogue a ultimate killer.

50% reduction sounds like giving arcane shield to a rogue.

I have more to say but I don't have time to write all those things . later
Razor dont last so long as mage shield,keep that in mind. From what i have seen rogues aka ninjas in other mmorpg games are "killers". Rogue lost her meaning and usefulness right after armor have been nerfed. I suggest to bring all things back like it was before and then start to searching whats issue in class balance, because now all we see is only nerfs which dont make any sense at all. Sorry we can't call it " balance "

[Zeus]

Your suggestion will make the rogue a ultimate killer.

50% reduction sounds like giving arcane shield to a rogue.

I have more to say but I don't have time to write all those things . later

Razor shield lasts 5 to 8 seconds, it doesn't last as long as either of the two other classes shields.

[Legallyblonde]

Glad to see nerfs being taken into consideration.

But tbh, who cares about PvP in this game. Go balance Call of Champions Vroom!!1!1!1!

[thegame]

thanks sts now the 12 million gold I just spent to gear mage is useless, if u nerf shield then I will not be able to stay alive long enough to even charge my attacks ,because rogues already one shot me when shield is fading, and I have over 6ooo health, I quit tank because rogues are dealing so much crit and damage now ,as soon as jugg fades ,they one shot you armour is 3197 with arc sword,not only is this happening to me ,but many more. So congrats you have taken a game I love, the only game I play or have played in 15 years and ruined it,now u want to further destroy it,so why not just save all of us non rogues the time ,effort ,energy and money and just call it rogue legends and ,cancel all classes in game but rogues, or at least sell us bullseye patterned vanities, sts you couldn't have gotten it more wrong if you tried,yay you missed the whole point.

[Intous]

Played arcane legends 15 years o.o, This game has been running since 2012, correct me if I'm wrong, if yes, then congratulations brother, you have leaped through time.

[Croak]

Most rogues here use the argument that in a clash, once a rogue's nekro shield is gone, he'd get rushed and die. My question is, where is the tank's shield? It IS a clash right? I'm sure most will not clash without a couple tanks in the team the majority of the times. It seems most rogues are omitting the fact that, in a clash, nekro's shield is not the only shield a rogue has.

I'm all for pvp balancing, but I think it's best to lay everything on the table instead of making arguments that will only benefit one single class.

[Deathclaw]

Is there a way to fix the balance issue without other classes being nerfed it could end up in disaster. I played all 3 classes in AL, rouges can easily break the arcane shied and even break through jugg as i have experienced it myself. I'm pretty sure next week there will be sorcerers and tanks complaining how weak their defense is and this will continue in a never ending cycle. If this is going to be implemented in AL it should be done for 1 week only and we will see how it goes.

[Intous]

Assuming that these changes are implemented here is what will happen :
Rogues stop complaining ------> Mages complaining about their shield being too weak and threatening to leave AL --------> Warriors back to complaining after a long pause -----------> mages and warrior retain their lost abilities ------------> Rogues complaining that they die too fast and usless on clashes ------> other classes get nerfed -------> Endless cycle.
:D this is what will happen I assure you

[Safiras]

Most rogues here use the argument that in a clash, once a rogue's nekro shield is gone, he'd get rushed and die. My question is, where is the tank's shield? It IS a clash right? I'm sure most will not clash without a couple tanks in the team the majority of the times. It seems most rogues are omitting the fact that, in a clash, nekro's shield is not the only shield a rogue has.

I'm all for pvp balancing, but I think it's best to lay everything on the table instead of making arguments that will only benefit one single class.

A rogue has only one reliable shield: that of Nekro. The rest of the shields are unreliable and are dependent on the skill and timing of the rogue's teammates. Nekro provides damage reduction and stun immunity. Once that is gone, the rogue can and will get targeted and nuked. Tank blows horn? One FB stun and you're rooted to the spot, during which your tank's shield has evaporated and the next tank can't shield you with horn again because of the 10 second cooldown. Cue a mage with Arcane shield rushing and nuking you to death. This is the reality of a rogue in a PvP clash.

I'm not for buffing one class and nerfing the others blindly as well, but there have been reasonable arguments here made for realistic adjustments to PvP to make the rogue an equal amongst tanks and mages, not the dominant class again. That is what we want.

A final note: a good tank and friend of mine said to me recently that people have lost the meaning of class roles in PvP. A reason why PvP has turned out like this may be because everyone wants to kill like a rogue. And eventually, changes were made such that rogues didn't matter anymore because other classes really did come to kill like rogues, but were far better because they could also play their own roles while killing. Some food for thought.

[Shelllz]

I don't know why rogues are complaining. 10 min ago I was spawned by a certain "pro" rogue in tdm. He used speed set to run from spawn to spawn and I died b4 I could even get nekro aa off. I have 6k hp. Why would u want to buff rogues or nerf mages when we all know rogues are still op. Just because one certain rogue is crying about mage stack doesn't mean whole end game pvp should be even more screwed up than it already is. This certain rogue has a mage he can use but chooses to sit in forums to cry about mage stack.

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[Justg]

Devs

In the meeting earlier this week in which this course of action was decided, was there a spot at the table for the players? Someone should be acting as the in-house player advocate (devil's advocate? ;) ). Players feel dictated to and left out of the decision making process, which, as you're witnessing here, creates turmoil and resentment. If these nerfs must happen, it would help immensely if you laid out the reasons why you believe nerfing is the best strategy in this scenario. Also, please tell us why you think no other course of action is viable. Some players have made suggestions that seem simple, logical and don't involve nerfing, but there hasn't been any response to them.

This is what we are doing now, working through the issues with you. Extremely inconsistent feedback across the board btw.

[intrepd]

I don't know why rogues are complaining. 10 min ago I was spawned by a certain "pro" rogue in tdm. He used speed set to run from spawn to spawn and I died b4 I could even get nekro aa off. I have 6k hp. Why would u want to buff rogues or nerf mages when we all know rogues are still op. Just because one certain rogue is crying about mage stack doesn't mean whole end game pvp should be even more screwed up than it already is. This certain rogue has a mage he can use but chooses to sit in forums to cry about mage stack.

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Then why are you never using a rogue in clash? Or why is pvp clean of rogues (Endgame pvp clashes*)
Its not a single rogue, I'm a mage and i want rogues to get buffed since they are useless, probably good in gang

[Shelllz]

This is what we are doing now, working through the issues with you. Extremely inconsistent feedback across the board btw.
Ofc it's inconsistent......rogues want buff, mages and tanks don't want nerf. Just put Stat restrictions in pvp, that way even skilled players with 0 gear can have a chance vs top geared players. Also remove all the stupid procs from pvp. First of all its hard to even see anything with pet aa's, and procs. Second, people rely on procs too much and consider themselves pro pvp when their gear procs and kills the opposition.

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[Shelllz]

Then why are you never using a rogue in clash? Or why is pvp clean of rogues (Endgame pvp clashes*)
Its not a single rogue, I'm a mage and i want rogues to get buffed since they are useless, probably good in gang
BECAUSE, we don't have any rogues who have the gear and ping of this certain "pro" spawning rogue on opposite team.

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[intrepd]

Ofc it's inconsistent......rogues want buff, mages and tanks don't want nerf. Just put Stat restrictions in pvp, that way even skilled players with 0 gear can have a chance vs top geared players. Also remove all the stupid procs from pvp. First of all its hard to even see anything with pet aa's, and procs. Second, people rely on procs too much and consider themselves pro pvp when their gear procs and kills the opposition.

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Completely agree that everyone relys on proc instead of skills, mostly tanks nowaday, i wish the same that there is a stat restriction but doubt it wi be done, lots of players are undergeared in pvp

[intrepd]

BECAUSE, we don't have any rogues who have the gear and ping of this certain "pro" spawning rogue on opposite team.

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How many rogues are like this "Pro" rogue in pvp nowadays? 1-2? Rest are not even maxed, even stat restriction will not help since lets say it will boost stats just to that "Pro" rogue stats, every rogue will have this stats but even him cant survive.

[Shelllz]

How many rogues are like this "Pro" rogue in pvp nowadays? 1-2? Rest are not even maxed, even stat restriction will not help since lets say it will boost stats just to that "Pro" rogue stats, every rogue will have this stats but even him cant survive.
Exactly. That's why we don't use rogues. Our rogues have ping of 600+ and gear with excellent (or lower) jewels and no mm happiness on their pet. I have crap gear. I die alot. Doesn't bother me. My ping sucks most clashes 400-5k even though in towns I have less than 100 ping. I get swapped alot lately because I get pulled out of spawn and I can't even see them coming for me.....I get pulled by ghosts. This Doesn't bother me.

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[intrepd]

Exactly. That's why we don't use rogues. Our rogues have ping of 600+ and gear with excellent (or lower) jewels and no mm happiness on their pet. I have crap gear. I die alot. Doesn't bother me. My ping sucks most clashes 400-5k even though in towns I have less than 100 ping. I get swapped alot lately because I get pulled out of spawn and I can't even see them coming for me.....I get pulled by ghosts. This Doesn't bother me.

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Even though i agree with you about Procs and stat restriction i doubt it will happen though, but there must be something done for rogues, they can not survive in a clash, stack mages just eats them in few seconds, either Buff rogues damage to be able to break juggernaut again, or this nerfs will be fine.

[Zeus]

How many rogues are like this "Pro" rogue in pvp nowadays? 1-2? Rest are not even maxed, even stat restriction will not help since lets say it will boost stats just to that "Pro" rogue stats, every rogue will have this stats but even him cant survive.

I wonder who she's talking about. :rolleyes:


Even though i agree with you about Procs and stat restriction i doubt it will happen though, but there must be something done for rogues, they can not survive in a clash, stack mages just eats them in few seconds, either Buff rogues damage to be able to break juggernaut again, or this nerfs will be fine.

There's no point for gear if stat restriction is implemented, to be honest. Again though, if they're nerfing all damage reduction including Nekro shield, then we are back to base 1. Rogues with Nekro shield are complete glass and that's what happens to rogues as soon as the shield fades. Reducing this shield would make it worse than it already is for rogues.

[Shelllz]

There isn't a right answer to this unless ur planning to redesign the whole pvp from start. Rogues squishy but deadly. Mages semi squishy but decent dmg, tanks good dmg absorbing and protecting. Rogues were never meant to have more armor than mages. Mages were never meant to have more dmg than rogues. And tanks are just tanks.

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[intrepd]

There isn't a right answer to this unless ur planning to redesign the whole pvp from start. Rogues squishy but deadly. Mages semi squishy but decent dmg, tanks good dmg absorbing and protecting. Rogues were never meant to have more armor than mages. Mages were never meant to have more dmg than rogues. And tanks are just tanks.

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But who needs a rogue if she can't even survive? While mages survive more deal enough damage to nuke the target and can heal the team. Even if she deals high damage shes at the back hitting a juggernaut tank who will never break, if she rushes then shes dead because cant survive 3 mages even with the team heals, and ofc after the shield is gone 3 mages will rush her.
-I'm a Mage my self.

[Zeus]

But who needs a rogue if she can't even survive? While mages survive more deal enough damage to nuke the target and can heal the team

Exactly, and this is something very few sorcerers will ever admit. Especially those who currently abuse this weakness. Thank you for being one of the ones to admit this is an issue.

[Shelllz]

Exactly, and this is something very few sorcerers will ever admit. Especially those who currently abuse this weakness.
Abuse this weakness.....when certain "pro" rogue used tank stack(3-4 tanks in a clash) because of sword lava proc no one complained. You didn't see me in forums begging to nerf the sword. Learn and adapt.

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[Zeus]

Abuse this weakness.....when certain "pro" rogue used tank stack(3-4 tanks in a clash) because of sword lava proc no one complained.

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This was to combat the sorcerer stack in the first place, so your point is just helping me out. When a certain class can completely replace another class then things need to be fixed.

Please, look at this from a balance perspective and not just because of a claim that there are no rogues. I've certainly been more than fair about buffing sorcerers when they were nearly useless. Do rogues not deserve the same?

[intrepd]

Abuse this weakness.....when certain "pro" rogue used tank stack(3-4 tanks in a clash) because of sword lava proc no one complained. You didn't see me in forums begging to nerf the sword. Learn and adapt.

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The issue here is not abuse everyone has the right to play with whatever team that's true but the issue is that rogues are not needed anymore and they can not survive, my point is why would a team need a rogue in clash if shes going to hit the tank with juggernaut and he would never break? If she rush shes going to die, even if shee at the back she will die once they rush her which is 100% going to happen. She can not survive neither do her job.

[intrepd]

Ask Mr "pro" rogue. He hides in the back. When he dies he comes back and kills whole team. He still gets most kills per clash. Just saying.
He started to Rambo at shielded mages when their aimed shot got nerfed to take a video and show sts how weak he is. We all know his play style.

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Sorry but not everyone is like that "Pro" rogue most are a bit undergeared, you said that your undergeared and hes maxed yet he's having trouble with you in clashes, imagine a undergeared rogue then? She cant break juggernaut or survive at the back neither rush, how is she suppose to deal damage then? IMO the damage the rogue deals to a juggernaut tank is useless because he wont break either ways lol

[Justg]

Keep it civil folks, this is supposed to be a thread where we discuss proposed changes with you.

[Imback Al]

Nah it's more like this
Rogue with better gear> rogue
Rogue>Mage
Skilled rogue>tank

[Oezheasate]

Pls don't destroy nekro in pve because of pvp

Can you stop going against every major pvp issue just because you fear it might change pve? You have no constructive thoughts just the ever repeating comment of, pvp is destroying this game blablabla.

[Shelllz]

Sorry but not everyone is like that "Pro" rogue most are a bit undergeared, you said that your undergeared and hes maxed yet he's having trouble with you in clashes, imagine a undergeared rogue then? She cant break juggernaut or survive at the back neither rush, how is she suppose to deal damage then? IMO the damage the rogue deals to a juggernaut tank is useless because he wont break either ways lol
I never said he had trouble. He gets most kills per clash.

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[Shelllz]

Keep it civil folks, this is supposed to be a thread where we discuss proposed changes with you.
Sorry Gary, just buff the rogues armor a bit and leave everything else as is. Or take my other option and just nerf everyone to be at same stats (per class), and get rid of procs. I'm done here.

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[intrepd]

I never said he had trouble. He gets most kills per clash.

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Everyone pvping should be able to notice that rogues having trouble in pvp, i don't know really if you noticed since you don't use a rogue in clash, but i seen him get swapped alot even though hes maxed and skilled just for a mage that is not even as maxed as him.

[Imback Al]

I mean it has been long in the making. The desire for rogues in clash was lost at the outro of 41. Tanks and mages run pvp, it's as if the character description for rogue atm is "good for pve, but don't step foot in pvp."

[Ireliaa]

make some time of kdrless pvp to test those issue

ofc everyone would rage even with slightest a smell of nerf news
rogue has no valid defensive mechanism or powerful heal additionally its mana hungry so longer fight request is invalid as it stands

for me,best thing that can be done is buff the damage of rogue in pvp so we can fulfill the glass canon not just glass

[Shelllz]

Everyone pvping should be able to notice that rogues having trouble in pvp, i don't know really if you noticed since you don't use a rogue in clash, but i seen him get swapped alot even though hes maxed and skilled just for a mage that is not even as maxed as him.
He has a maxed out mage at his disposal. We don't have rogues. There shouldn't be a problem.

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[Imback Al]

He has a maxed out mage at his disposal. We don't have rogues. There shouldn't be a problem.

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Lrime, amqk, virqin, twerrk, level your rogue?, poisoneds, etc etc

[Shelllz]

Mage and tank stacking will be disintegrated soon. When that happens the need for rogues will be back. Last time I checked mag only had 2 good rogues, amqk and twerrk, so is that why you want Mage stacking prevalent still rage?
Amok is sleeping when we clash. Twerk doesn't even have gear......he borrowed gear for 1 clash and now u think he's at our disposal 24/7.....WE HAVE NO ROGUES.

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[Ireliaa]

Most of these changes are geared at making tanks and mages easier to kill. Most of us to be honest don't want that. We want a single clash to last longer, we want to be able to survive one combo and then be able to come back for more. Alot of times it comes down to one combo one kill. I'd like PvP to be more tactical and calculated than that. It's not that rogues can't kill tanks or mages. We can, but it's just that we die way too easily and we are heavily dependent on the other two classes to support us. If there was a way that rogues can support the other team in ways other than damage, or a way for rogues to temporarily and briefly survive a nuke from the other team, that might help things even up.

you cant posibly have a longer battle with inferior heal, no defensive ability, mana hungry class like rogue. Its designed to be glass canon fast kills fast burst but weak defense so out of battle soon

what you are asking is changing entire class in order to make longer battle, you want your rogue to be mage or what?

[intrepd]

He has a maxed out mage at his disposal. We don't have rogues. There shouldn't be a problem.

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What I'm saying is that rogues should at least have a spot in PvP at least 1 rogue is enough, 2 mages is a must now anyways because of korruption but none would swap a mage for rogue even that "Pro" rogue gets swapped alot for a mage if not every single maxed ctf clash,
Basically rogues can not compete with mages not even close in clash if its a mage stack.
Look how its done now
"Tank stack can be easily killed by korruption- its a nightmare for them"
"Rogue stack is useless since the beginning "
"Mage stack is still the best, even 2 tanks 3 mages can beat a tank stack now"

[Ireliaa]

Here's my points:

1. Entire reason rogue can survive even a little bit right now is due to Nekro shield. Developers need to test what happens to rogue when they do not have a Nekro shield. This is exactly what ends up happening in clash. You wait for the rogue's Nekro shield to go down, then you rush him or her and light him or her up.

2. Nerfs are not the answer. Buffs are. Nerfs make people want to quit because time invested in their character ends up being for nothing. This should have been realized when rogue armor was nerfed.

3. Increase rogue contribution to a team. It's abysmal, at best. That is what needs to be fixed and it needs to be done in a way that does not include nerfing the other classes.


Suggestions:

1. 50% damage reduction on razor shield
2. Increasing potency of Aimed Shot
3. Heavy armor increase (must combine with another suggestion, or it alone won't work)

If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to chime in.

this is also against class description on the part %50 DR heavy armor sounds like you wanna make warrior instead of rogue, if you ask anything ask temporary %50 damage increase because thats what rogues designed for, in any game you can see rogue is a single target damage nuke, what we dont have is our nuking ability it is outhealed by class combinations and stacks,

[intrepd]

this is also against class description on the part %50 DR heavy armor sounds like you wanna make warrior instead of rogue, if you ask anything ask temporary %50 damage increase because thats what rogues designed for, in any game you can see rogue is a single target damage nuke, what we dont have is our nuking ability it is outhealed by class combinations and stacks,

Tbh i dont see any ways to solve this other than buff rogues damage to break juggernaut like before (not with every single aim ofc but a chance maybe) or make class restriction, Nerf mages shield a bit and juggernaut
one of these ways is what i think could solve it, but again no one likes class restriction especially ones who stack classes lol

[Zeus]

Are people really basing their argument on not having rogues? That doesn't even make sense: "Oh, we don't have rogues so we should keep making sure rogues don't have a place in PvP."

That's really disappointing and not even close to the mindset needed for class balance.


this is also against class description on the part %50 DR heavy armor sounds like you wanna make warrior instead of rogue, if you ask anything ask temporary %50 damage increase because thats what rogues designed for, in any game you can see rogue is a single target damage nuke, what we dont have is our nuking ability it is outhealed by class combinations and stacks,

I would prefer a heavy damage increase, but the amount of warriors and sorcerers that cannot juggernaut or shield on time are going to have big problems with the entire concept of "glass cannon". A damage increase follows our role as being a glass cannon, but there's so many that are against it even though it's the only real logical decision that does not include nerfing sorcerer/warrior or increasing a rogue's survivability.

[xxalivexx]

Rogues have been nerfed so much in the past, but i make a complaint about nerfing mages and they tend to get mad too easily, we take what we have, no arguements, we cant make sts do what we want is better but we can surely convince them.

[thegame]

rogues can't kill tanks huh,well some rogue should tell onempl,omgjuicy,ripnubs,ripnabs and many more u can't kill tanks,because they do it on the regular, so obviously they,are doing it wrong, they are not the only ones,rogues can't kill no one they say,just watch PvP.But honesty they should have some armour back,but sts please stop needing every class to cover the mistakes you make in adjustments, PvP is a fun part of the game,or it was,now your answer to everything is nerf all of arlor,nerf scratch and Harley they one shot people all the time,stop wasting the op gear we buy, by nerfing it. thank put the nerf down and back away from it. and I said I'm earlier post I haven't played another game in 15 year,not all for 15 years,read before u post

[Ireliaa]

Are people really basing their argument on not having rogues? That doesn't even make sense: "Oh, we don't have rogues so we should keep making sure rogues don't have a place in PvP."

That's really disappointing and not even close to the mindset needed for class balance.



I would prefer a heavy damage increase, but the amount of warriors and sorcerers that cannot juggernaut or shield on time are going to have big problems with the entire concept of "glass cannon". A damage increase follows our role as being a glass cannon, but there's so many that are against it even though it's the only real logical decision that does not include nerfing sorcerer/warrior or increasing a rogue's survivability.

you are right on vs senario but i dont think they are gonna die in clash situation with damage increase because of the heals the cc the aoe alone is enough to destory that glass canon still. If they cant handle the concept of rogue they have to quit rpg games
as someone explained in order to land an aim you have to be close on bow range which is equal to the axe range once you get pulled you are dead because all that lava pools fireballs etc will land on you that you cant survive but if we have high brust maybe we can hunt a mage in clash because right now they are invincible together still its gonna be tough to dodge that 3 axe thorws

it wasnt a problem to hunt mages or rogues during clash with mixed teams as we are supposed to before this annoying pools 3 axe pull sets maybe we can agree on that

[xxalivexx]

Tanks are easy to kill but put 4 on a team with drag swords and it's night night for the opposite team , i was in tdm earlier and 3 tanks stood in one area spawning pools, killing my team almost instantly, drag sword needs less proc rate.

@thegame

Sorry keep forgetting quote

[Shaker Ida]

XD this is op

its just like

wlc back rogues
bye bye mages
be carefull tanks


lets try this out

[xxalivexx]

XD this is op

its just like

wlc back rogues
bye bye mages
be carefull tanks


lets try this out

Im dead.... :D

[Nikool991]

Here's my points:

1. Entire reason rogue can survive even a little bit right now is due to Nekro shield. Developers need to test what happens to rogue when they do not have a Nekro shield. This is exactly what ends up happening in clash. You wait for the rogue's Nekro shield to go down, then you rush him or her and light him or her up.

2. Nerfs are not the answer. Buffs are. Nerfs make people want to quit because time invested in their character ends up being for nothing. This should have been realized when rogue armor was nerfed.

3. Increase rogue contribution to a team. It's abysmal, at best. That is what needs to be fixed and it needs to be done in a way that does not include nerfing the other classes.


Suggestions:

1. 50% damage reduction on razor shield
2. Increasing potency of Aimed Shot
3. Heavy armor increase (must combine with another suggestion, or it alone won't work)

If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to chime in.
Hahaha are we working on class balance here...or making a rogue the best class????

[Zeus]

Hahaha are we working on class balance here...or making a rogue the best class????

If you want class balance, then give rogues damage. The entire reason I made the other suggestions is because players cannot handle the concept of a glass cannon.

If a rogue dies easily, he should be able to output huge amounts of damage. If you're aiming for a rogue, his or her skills should make you think twice before rushing him in a PvP environment. It's a bit like how I have to think twice before rushing a sorcerer or tank on juggernaut or shield/heal all the while making sure I do not rush them if Nekro shield is down.

[( DAMAGE )]

one of the main reason we cant take out mages while under protection of warr is the infamous arcane sword proc and 3 axe pulls.

we are single target damage when we get pulled or atack from range, enemy warr tanks the damage but when mage atack, their skill hits aoe so same warr cant able to protect us


and as you mentioned its nothing like vs , because mage rogue battle is generally close one where as undergeared warr vs max geared rogue losing because of the arcane sword not the skill set of warrior and if you add glintstone set into this it makes it imposible

so if we compare if we are gonna lose to warrior by far, not close battle( yea warr takes 2 even 3 vs 1 rogue on ease) mage shield reduction is justified

rogue vs mage is not even a close battle rogues demolish mages in a vs....2nd tank vs rogue isnt as u said...tanks are stronger yes but how come a rogue called temzy or zeus can kill almost any tank in the game???? answer: its called skill!
PS glinstone set is trash in vs

[Ireliaa]

and many people here comes doesnt have rogues no idea whats going on and saying" tanks are weak man buhbuhbuh dont nerf me or i quit" its plain hypocrisy there i said it.
also some coming just started the game doesnt have clue about whats clash or mechanics of it making noise based on no evidence

you guys are distracting the feedback and making this feedback going nowhere

[xxalivexx]

If you want class balance, then give rogues damage. The entire reason I made the other suggestions is because players cannot handle the concept of a glass cannon.

If a rogue dies easily, he should be able to output huge amounts of damage. If you're aiming for a rogue, his or her skills should make you think twice before rushing him in a PvP environment. It's a bit like how I have to think twice before rushing a sorcerer or tank on juggernaut or shield/heal all the while making sure I do not rush them if Nekro shield is down.

Well mages can rush us rogs, us rogs are literally paper in pvp, all a mage needs to do is stun a rog and their dead in seconds.
But my name wont be seen in pvp until they make it official to nerf tanks and mages.

[xxalivexx]

rogue vs mage is not even a close battle rogues demolish mages in a vs....2nd tank vs rogue isnt as u said...tanks are stronger yes but how come a rogue called temzy or zeus can kill almost any tank in the game???? answer: its called skill!
PS glinstone set is trash in vs

Not all what u said is true, ok zues can kill and yes he has skill, i have skill also, and once i enter tdm its not like the old days, like zues said before mages and tanks would think twice before rushing a rog, today in the game its the other way around, rogues are prey. Sorry to tell ya

[Ireliaa]

rogue vs mage is not even a close battle rogues demolish mages in a vs....2nd tank vs rogue isnt as u said...tanks are stronger yes but how come a rogue called temzy or zeus can kill almost any tank in the game???? answer: its called skill!
PS glinstone set is trash in vs

aparently you dont know how to play your mage, its a close battle but rogue has slight advantage please dont lie here a geared mage can easyly take out middle geared rogue

on tank situation a tank with glint set and arcane sword can take 3 rogue at ease i have witnessed many times on tdm
besides zeus never claimed i kill any tank in game, because i know he cant not because lack of skill because the mechanics of the game atm

i dont know where you get your arguments from your back? man im legit pissed

[xxalivexx]

aparently you dont know how to play your mage, its a close battle but rogue has slight advantage please dont lie here a geared mage can easyly take out middle geared rogue

on tank situation a tank with glint set and arcane sword can take 3 rogue at ease i have witnessed many times on tdm
besides zeus never claimed i kill any tank in game, because i know he cant not because lack of skill because the mechanics of the game atm

i dont know where you get your arguments from your back? man im legit pissed

Yes how the game is a rogue has a slight chance of killing a tank

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the feedback you've given us on this.

Design has reviewed the thread and has come up with another proposal which will be outlined in its own thread. Closing this one now.

-STSVroom :)