Guardians of Alterra.

[DawnInfinity]

Hey everyone,

I am curious about your opinions on the inactivity of the GoAs. I know I'm not active, nor will I be as of RIGHT NOW. I check the forums almost every day. I have a lot going on in my life right now that is much more important- college applications, school work, dance, friends, family.. I don't need to know who is active and who is not. People do not need to be called out on their inactivity. I want to hear about what you think should happen to us. PLEASE do not flame. I don't need this to be a "___ is a bad GoA because they are never on!" kind of thread.

What is the future of the program? What should happen? I know it has been suggested previously, by Phys I think, that it should just be disassembled. People move on eventually, will GoAs continue to just pile up in the back of the figurative closet? Now that two games are out, what do players expect of their Guardians? Do you want to see them in SL too even though they guard Alterra?

PLEASE DO NOT FLAME. I will close the thread otherwise.

Have at it,
Dawn

[DanielRH]

I believe (and I know I may be just a wee bit biased) that the guardians should stay around. Its a reward to the great players who helped out alot. It's nothing more than an award, nothing more than something like the founders helm. It's just a shield and a title which signifies that you have helped out the community alot.

If they wanted to turn it into something more than an award then I think there should be inactivity rules.

Just my thoughts :)

[Air]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its all good

hey dude your calculator is good but im not sure if the stats are correct gonna have to check in game later.
5 monthes dayum.
btw i saw your website people pay u $100 for a website?
you dont have to answer if you think its none of my business.

[WoundedEagle]

I believe (and I know I may be just a wee bit biased) that the guardians should stay around. Its a reward to the great players who helped out alot. It's nothing more than an award, nothing more than something like the founders helm. It's just a shield and a title which signifies that you have helped out the community alot.

If they wanted to turn it into something more than an award then I think there should be inactivity rules.

Just my thoughts :)
Yes


'nuff said

[Siejo]

Most have abandoned us or SL or O&C. Makes me sad inside. The program has apparently changed in how they pick one.

[Otukura]

100% agreed with Phys back then, just get rid of them.

[nmyxspaceship]

Yeah I think many guardians go away or take a break because all of the hard work that went in to that and you guys just feel like you need a well deserved break:)

[DanielRH]

Air, go to the beta group to post beta stuff, and yea I have a $100 web design business :)

15 people on the waitlist for one so far, it's fun :)

[Siejo]

I'm glad to know a few that have stayed. They make PL worth playing.

[Ellyidol]

100% agreed with Phys back then, just get rid of them.

+1, get rid.

The true essence of becoming a GOA, bias aside, were selfless acts. If they get rid of it, complaining and making a fuss about it would be directly against selfless acts, IMO.

Personal pet peeve is when people use the GOA card. I'm human people. Bear-like, but human.

[DawnInfinity]

I believe (and I know I may be just a wee bit biased) that the guardians should stay around. Its a reward to the great players who helped out alot. It's nothing more than an award, nothing more than something like the founders helm. It's just a shield and a title which signifies that you have helped out the community alot.

If they wanted to turn it into something more than an award then I think there should be inactivity rules.

Just my thoughts :)
So you see it as like a trophy status and not an ongoing duty?

[Tvis]

Get rid of them, but keep the community shield. Too many people doing good things for the wrong reason (which may not be a bad thing necessarily).

[WoundedEagle]

+1, get rid.

The true essence of becoming a GOA, bias aside, were selfless acts. If they get rid of it, complaining and making a fuss about it would be directly against selfless acts, IMO.

Personal pet peeve is when people use the GOA card. I'm human people. Bear-like, but human.
*busts through wall* OH YEAH. Now how are you going to explain to your family that a 6 foot tall Pitcher of Fruit Punch busted through your wall. That's what I thought.

[DanielRH]

Dawn, I don't feel that way at all (well sorta).

I feel that the guardianship is just an award.

I never asked for it, I never tried to get it. Everything Iv done and everything I will do is not for some title, or even in honor of some title. It's because I'm having fun helping the community out.

Even if the guardianship and the shield where taken away, I wouldent mind (besides that I look awesome with it).

Nothing I have ever done was for a title, I'm not that kind of guy, I don't care about rank. So yes to me it's just an award that they give.

I'm not living up to the guardianship, I'm living up to the community.

[Slush]

Samhayne said a while back it was an award for helping the community, not really a further commitment. I was really disappointed once I heard how the next GoA will be picked - the person who answers the most questions on the support portal. In fact I'm disappointed with a lot of decisions made by STS over the last few months, but I'll save the rants for later.

[Kingofhurtz]

To me it seems as if for some(CERTAINLY NOT ALL) that after thy have obtained GOA status, they think that they're done. As if their goal is accomplished and there is nothing more of interest to do. That's just me though... And like i said, it's not all.

[DawnInfinity]

Samhayne said a while back it was an award for helping the community, not really a further commitment. I was really disappointed once I heard how the next GoA will be picked - the person who answers the most questions on the support portal. In fact I'm disappointed with a lot of decisions made by STS over the last few months, but I'll save the rants for later.
Support portal... really? I missed that.

[Siejo]

Support portal... really? I missed that.

Yep I think since the 1.7.3 patch.

[Otukura]

Support portal... really? I missed that.

support.spacetimestudios.com/home (I think)


First thing you see:

"Did you know you could become a Guardian of Alterra? Help us by answering player questions in the “Community Questions” section! The player who contributes the most will be our next Guardian"

[RedRyder]

We have no power to even really do anything. We have a shield we can wear, get spammed in game, not get booted from games (lol ;)] and um... Idk? I think they should stop giving the status out, since everyone just wants the shield. All I get are pm's about "how do I become GoA?," "can you put in a good word for me?" "I want that shield"

Everyone's "helping" people because they want a shield. I was there from the beginning helping people. A long time before the thought of GoA's sprung into the devs minds. Then out of nowhere I got a shield.

I'm interested in seeing how people act with one anothe if GoA's were no longer in Effect and they had nothing to work toward.

[WoundedEagle]

support.spacetimestudios.com/home (I think)


First thing you see:

"Did you know you could become a Guardian of Alterra? Help us by answering player questions in the “Community Questions” section! The player who contributes the most will be our next Guardian"
^^^lol

[DawnInfinity]

Couldn't someone just ask questions and answer them themselves...?

[Otukura]

Couldn't someone just ask questions and answer them themselves...?

Don't give people any ideas.

[Siejo]

Couldn't someone just ask questions and answer them themselves...?


Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the abuse potential. It would be sad though to learn of a dishonest person becoming GoA.

[DawnInfinity]

Don't give people any ideas.
That is why it should not be a means by which people can "achieve" Guardian status.

"Go ask an easy pointless question for me to answer in the support portal! Spread the word!"

That's like telling a kid that if they sell 200 chocolate bars, they will get a trip to Disney world. Of course 100 of those will be bought by his parents, 25 to randoms, and the rest to extended family.

Doing something helpful shouldn't necessarily guarantee you such a thing.. "Give out a billion gold!"

What will they do next? Tell people that if they buy 1 million plat, they will become the Guardian of all Guardians?

[Slush]

What were devs thinking when they did that wtf.

[DawnInfinity]

What were devs thinking when they did that wtf.
Sorry guys. Lets not try to derail the thread.

There's always been that grey area of people doing sincere things JUST to get the status..

[WoundedEagle]

Sorry guys. Lets not try to derail the thread.

There's always been that grey area of people doing sincere things JUST to get the status..
Sadly, this is true (colon+left parenthesis) :(

[Otukura]

Sadly, this is true (colon+left parenthesis) :(

:(
:D

I win. Anyway, I couldn't put it more straight than Red did.

[Zeus]

I absolutely love it when people address me as "Guardian" instead of my real name or character name. Oh! The kissing up too. My opinion? Just remove the entire thing. We were helpful without it, a shield doesn't change that.

[Orcish]

I understand how the few of you feel about getting rid of the program but you all deserve something from the community that says thank you for all your hard work and devotion, here's a little something to show that we appreciate your service. It saddens me that so many players have ruined this appreciation for their own selfish desires, it was never suppose to be like that. There are so many of us that believe in you all to include myself. Don't let the few negative experiences influence the rewards given to you. The GoA is the community seal of higher standards of excellence. I like so many, look up to you all believing that GoA's teach, mentor, and lead, without you all I feel like PL would die a little. You all are as imporant as the devs that support this game, that's why they acknowledge you with honors. It will be a dark day when the guardians of light are no more and become a myth and legend, that will be the day we all lose...

[Redbridge]

Great thread Steph,

Here's my thoughts on the problem.... What's is a GoA? The award is given for PAST contribution to the community, by STS as a thank you. That's it. Nothing more.

Unfortunately, maybe people see GoA's as something more than they actually are. We just got a thank you from STS.

I think people maybe need to reduce their expectations for GoA's. I can't speak for the others but I'm not any kind of LEET player or knowledge god. I'm just a normal everyday player who loves helping people put and treats people the way I wanna be treated. Nothing special. I'd love to be able to keep my shield but with or without it, I'm not gonna change cos that how I roll.

There does seem to be a bit of drama over GoA status recently. So, maybe a rethink does need to happen. Maybe that doesn't mean a full withdrawal but a revamp and/or clear communication from STS about the scheme might suffice. Maybe, you could be right if a little clarity or a revamp does suffice then maybe it might need to be withdrawn. Shame.

Hope that helps Steph.

[NECROREAPER]

I understand how the few of you feel about getting rid of the program but you all deserve something from the community that says thank you for all your hard work and devotion, here's a little something to show that we appreciate your service. It saddens me that so many players have ruined this appreciation for their own selfish desires, it was never suppose to be like that. There are so many of us that believe in you all to include myself. Don't let the few negative experiences influence the rewards given to you. The GoA is the community seal of higher standards of excellence. I like so many, look up to you all believing that GoA's teach, mentor, and lead, without you all I feel like PL would die a little. You all are as imporant as the devs that support this game, that's why they acknowledge you with honors. It will be a dark day when the guardians of light are no more and become a myth and legend, that will be the day we all lose...


Sums up how I feel.

Guardians may or may not be necessary in the game, however the players and things they represent MUST stay in the game. It's one of the main reasons I still play: because I KNOW there are legitimately good people playing this game.

[KingFu]

I'm interested in seeing how people act with one anothe if GoA's were no longer in Effect and they had nothing to work toward.

I think that's precisely why they want to keep them. To keep everyone in line and basically have them obey and lend a helping hand so they can some day fulfill their hopes of getting the shield.

[CrimsonTider]

I think that's precisely why they want to keep them. To keep everyone in line and basically have them obey and lend a helping hand so they can some day fulfill their hopes of getting the shield.

True but at the same time, to what extent? I know a few players who are trying as hard as they can to become a GOA. This kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? Those of you, especially the first fe, earned yours through selflessness and contributions WITHOUT the knowledge of any future honor to be bestowed upon you. I knew several of you before you became a GOA. When you were given the title, it was completely unexpected and I never read where any of you were "trying" to become one.

Now, we have those who make it public: Include in their sig, make statements in-game/in threads, and make guides and what not when guides on the same topic already exist. Because of the announcement Slush referred to, the forums are flooded with useless threads and individuals who clearly go out of their way to make a statement. Also, I have seen an increase in the amount of reporting recently.

I missed this announcement, probably because, like many of you feel, could care less if I am granted a title saying I am helpful. Don't get me wrong, anytime one is honored because of the contributions they provide, it is a good thing. HOWEVER, I don't need a forum title and a shield to know I am helpful.

To get back on topic, I don't feel any of you should lose your status. You have earned it and should always be able to keep it. As far as the method for which the next GOA will be determined, I completley disagree. I can name about 10 people who do not post on the support site who are VERY deserving of the next nominations. The GOA is suppose to represent in all facets of the game and not just on one part of the STS site.

Sorry Steph for the long post. Just my two cents.

[Matutd]

i think current guardians should keep their titles, but STS shouldnt appoint any more people as guardians.

[WhoIsThis]

To me it seems as if for some(CERTAINLY NOT ALL) that after thy have obtained GOA status, they think that they're done. As if their goal is accomplished and there is nothing more of interest to do. That's just me though... And like i said, it's not all.

Agreed.

Perhaps after 2 weeks of inactivity, one option is to temporarily remove the guardian shield and status. Upon their return and if they prove they have enough actvity (ex: x number of posts on forum after their return), the status would be automatically re-granted. Exceptions could be given if the guardian has a legitimate reason to be absent (study, work, family issues, certain circumstances, etc.).

The other is I think that that there should be a greater willingness to remove the goa status from "coasting" players. To be fair, people who are about to lose their status should be given some warning. It should not be like say, going to the level cap, or the equal, help x number of people or write x number of guides and its over. It should be something that needs to be maintained. It shouldn't be too complicated as there are only a few guardians.

Barring that, scrapping it may be the best option. I know that if I were are guardian, I would seldom want to wear that shield in public nor display guardian status on my name in the forums for fear of being spammed or the scrutiny it gets.

[RedRyder]

Agreed.

Perhaps after 2 weeks of inactivity, one option is to temporarily remove the guardian shield and status. Upon their return and if they prove they have enough actvity (ex: x number of posts on forum after their return), the status would be automatically re-granted. Exceptions could be given if the guardian has a legitimate reason to be absent (study, work, family issues, certain circumstances, etc.).

The other is I think that that there should be a greater willingness to remove the goa status from "coasting" players. To be fair, people who are about to lose their status should be given some warning. It should not be like say, going to the level cap, or the equal, help x number of people or write x number of guides and its over. It should be something that needs to be maintained. It shouldn't be too complicated as there are only a few guardians.

Barring that, scrapping it may be the best option. I know that if I were are guardian, I would seldom want to wear that shield in public nor display guardian status on my name in the forums for fear of being spammed or the scrutiny it gets.

No, so if we lose interest in the game or get bored, we have to feel entitled to keep playing so we can keep GoA status? No thank you. There was only one case when someone lost it, and the said person revived no warning BUT should've seen it coming as the person didn't act guardian'ey.


i think current guardians should keep their titles, but STS shouldnt appoint any more people as guardians.

+1

[WhoIsThis]

I don't hold Lovenus responsible for what happened, but that is off topic.

I happen to think that guardians should be held to a higher standard and should be expected to maintain that standard. Otherwise they become entrenched and well, unworthy for lack of a better term of the shield.

If a person has "lost interest", are they a model citizen in the community? I don't consider them to be. Naturally, they will always be welcome back and have their special status restored if they return.

[RedRyder]

So let me get this straight. If they no longer have anything entertaining to them left to do, they have to Force enjoyment out of the game? Even the best of video games get boring, you can't deem that someone isn't a "model citizen" if they have nothing left to do in the game or found something else to do with their time.

If they were to lose the status just to get it back the moment they return, then really whats the point of taking it away on the first place?

I say just stop giving the status out. I feel that the ones that already have it, deserve it. There are at least 5 other people that deserve it, and they are selfless enough that they don't need a shield and are already well recognized.

[WhoIsThis]

Nobody is going anybody to do anything. If a person doesn't care about Pl or Sl anymore, logically, what value to them is the goa? Said person can always get it back.

But after considering what you are saying, perhaps scrapping the goa is the best option. At the end of the day, decisions will be arbitrary. To me, everyone in the first 2 generations deserved it. Once we get into the 3rd gen, things get iffy. But that illustrates my point ... it is very subjective. In any event considering how it has divided the community, it may be a better place if there were no goas as so many people seem to want it.

Personally I've never seen it as anything to aspire to, but in that respect, I am a minority.

[RedRyder]

I didn't aspire to get it either, it just happened. As I already said, it's just gotten to the point that people are being helpful for a shield.

[NECROREAPER]

Perhaps we should make a suggestion to the devs that there should be a small prize or something to give out.

I understand that the whole concept of becoming a GOA really was just a prize from STS congratulating you guys in your hard work, however like many have said, those were selfless acts and were without knowledge of any 'prize' being granted. So in this case, maybe we should have a noted prize, like 5 plat, that would be granted upon helpful players. However I don't feel like the prize Shoukd be something extraordinary since you shouldnt be doing things just to get a reward. If people Are being helpful in the community, have it be recognized though, otherwise people will lose the motivation to be helpful at all which is really what sets this game apart from many others; the community.

[themars]

Pfff all those rewards. Ok its cool to be a guardian and I love the shield too but I think there are some disadvantages too:
People are begging for money,
Asking to help him
And many more
I think there are many people who are jealous and trying to flame guardians.

Is it really like this? U can only help people when there is a award u can win? U help people cause u want to help him or her. My greatest reward is when those people are happy and thankful cause I helped them.
And I agree a shield is a nice reward but is that our goal? I think a lot of players will be disappointed they won't become guardians.
And most of the guardians I don't even know but I'm sure they deserved it. I only met ellyidol and phys but those are nice players and I see a lot of guardians who didnt want those title they just want to have fun and help others so they can have fun too. And that's for me a real guardian.

Sorry for my bad sentences, I'm on my phone ;)

[Swimmingstar]

In my opinion it could have been better if GoA was never created. It would be a lot different. People wouldn't be trying to get the shield so badly and act unnatural. It's better to be yourself. You can really notice ____ people trying to get GoA so badly. It actually makes me kind of uncomfortable to have people acting really unnatural.

[Zeusofire]

I appreciate all that the GoA's have done for me and other members of the STS community. HOWEVER, there are very many inactive members and I believe that STS needs to start acting on this. The GoA group is for Outstanding players and leaders who assist others, Not for players who once did that and then left. STS needs to start Removing inactive GoA's because they no longer fit the role as is stated by STS.

[Zeus]

I appreciate all that the GoA's have done for me and other members of the STS community. HOWEVER, there are very many inactive members and I believe that STS needs to start acting on this. The GoA group is for Outstanding players and leaders who assist others, Not for players who once did that and then left. STS needs to start Removing inactive GoA's because they no longer fit the role as is stated by STS.

I would rather them remove all GOA's status than to remove peoples' GOA statuses for being "inactive". They did help people in their era, no? That's like taking away a trophy from (insert said sport here; my personal favorite is surfing) and then quitting the sport. Are the judges going to call your house and ask for the trophy back? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that it was a reward.

[Zeusofire]

I would rather them remove all GOA's status than to remove peoples' GOA statuses for being "inactive". They did help people in their era, no? That's like taking away a trophy from (insert said sport here; my personal favorite is surfing) and then quitting the sport. Are the judges going to call your house and ask for the trophy back? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that it was a reward.

I wouldn't say that this situation is entirely comparable. PL is a virtual world. Not a physical object by itself. If people leave and then forget about it they aren't going to walk into a room with a shield and start remembering all their good times in PL. And when I say inactive I mean for several months. I also really dont view that shield as a trophy. When I walk into Balefort and see someone with A GoA shield I think of it more as a marker, Something to let others know that they are very helpful. I don't know if this is just my twisted view or what...

[Moogerfooger]

Royce is turning over in his grave somewhere.

[Aikiebo]

Don't give people any ideas.
That is why it should not be a means by which people can "achieve" Guardian status.

"Go ask an easy pointless question for me to answer in the support portal! Spread the word!"

That's like telling a kid that if they sell 200 chocolate bars, they will get a trip to Disney world. Of course 100 of those will be bought by his parents, 25 to randoms, and the rest to extended family.

Doing something helpful shouldn't necessarily guarantee you such a thing.. "Give out a billion gold!"

What will they do next? Tell people that if they buy 1 million plat, they will become the Guardian of all Guardians?

I disagree that the GoA program should be disbanded. It is an extremely beneficial program. Problems are developing because some forum members have forgotten the stated purpose of the GoA program. A quote from the thread that started the program:

GoAs should:
1. Proved useful and constructive feedback to both players and STS devs.
2. Help keep forums clean and friendly by reporting inappropriate posts and to attempt to diffuse arguments and flamewars.
3. Fostser community development with player run events and good will, etc.
4. Be visible, helpful and constructive.

Who would want to end a program like that? That is exactly what we need more of, not less.

However, some forum members are confused and expanding on the above in ways that are causing a lot of problems.

So now, some want to end the program cuz they are upset at the way STS is going to pick the next GoA. Why shouldn't the person who is the most helpful on the support portal get rewarded for their effort? The current GoAs got rewarded for their effort.

Just cuz someone is answering a lot of questions doesn't mean they are only doing it to get the shield. That may or may not be one of the incentives, but for many there are other incentives as well. People keep trying to read other player's minds. That is impossible.

People saying that just cuz they doing it to get some kind of reward that that is "dishonest" or it's not as pure as doing it for no reward or whatever ideas. That makes very little sense. In the entire history of mankind and for the rest of eternity, 99% of all achievements, successes, accomplishments, progress, and most discoveries will be the direct result of someone sitting down, figuring out some goal they would like to accomplish or some problem they would like to resolve, then planning out bunches of steps to achieve their dream, and dedicating themselves to that idea.

So what if someone is answering questions in hopes to become GoA? There is nothing wrong with that. The devs set up some sort of support portal and want players to answer questions. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Every charitable organization spends huge amounts of time and some money to thank and honor the people who have helped them out. Wut, you think the Red Cross says to their volunteers, come help us during the next big flood, however, we not going to honor you or thank you.

I find it hard to believe that there are some who have a problem with someone saying, "wow, I'd love to be acknowledged and have that shield and that title and have people look up to me, sooo, the devs said that I could participate in the new support forum, so I'm going to answer as many questions as I can". What is wrong with that. That's not being dishonest, that's having a plan.

Btw, DI has a sig that promotes a blog that he writes. Hmm... Do I have a prob with that? Is that bad? NO NO NO NO, it is self-promotion and millioins of people do it every single, every single day especially in social media. So, unless the devs don't permit, and why they would care, i couldn't possible come up with even a guess, so as long as ok with the devs, who cares, so what, no biggie, live and let live, who cares if someone puts in their sig to vote for them or w/e so maybe that help get them GoA. In fact, an absolute wonderful thread that was just started the other day, the senior member asked for a thumbs up. I've seen it lots of times.

Then some are saying that the only forum members "worthy" of this honor are the current ones. That in the furture, no other "honest", helpful people will exist. Are people saying that the current GoAs are the only ones who are honest and helpful. Hmm... That is quite a accusation if that is what some are saying. It's completely false and a bit of an insult.

No wait, some are saying that there will be "honest" and helpful members in the future, but they don't really need or deserve to be rewarded. Hmmm.....why is that?

Then a second problem: Many,many times when someone disagrees with them, if they don't have logic or reason to respond with, they just start accusing that person of flaming, even when no flaming happened.

Look at the forum rules: A flame is a post specifically designed to berate or insult another player.

But what happens so often is if player A disagrees with player B, and player B don't really have logic or reason on his side, player B just starts screaming, "you're flaming me". A disagreement is not a flame. A flame is a flame. There is a difference. You will be able to read this entire post and not see one flame. Or, some will try to get threads locked and now, some are trying to get rid of the GoA program all together.

You don't want to be GoA, that cool, just give back the shield (or keep it as a reward for past help you gave), step down and others will gladly take your place. Or..... Just revisit the stated goals of the program and rethink the way you handle some threads/posts. Option two = best option.

I just read a thread, that actually inspired me to respond to this one. Everyone knows which one I'm talking about. The one where a player was suggesting a trade of different bows in game. People responded in unnecessary ways and as it turns out with incorrect information. Turning a simple, perfectly innocent post into a ridic onslaught against the op. And what I was so surprised and very happy to see, is that this op stood up for himself.

And it seems like sometimes people can't stand to have their "authority questioned". That thread like so many others got worse and worse cuz, not what the op was saying cuz of what the others were saying.

Please re-read the purpose of the GoA as typed above and the ACTUAL, REAL definition of flaming if you disagree with the last paragraph above.

Some, many, many times, have no prob breaking the very rules, they try to "enforce". No one ever says anything cuz either don't care that the rule was broken, cuz after all he senior member, or afraid that he is going to get flamed for standing up for himself or someone else.

Then others are going on and on and on about how the poor GoAs are being flamed. I have not seen one, not one, not one flame against against a GoA that wasn't only after the player was treated inappropraitely by one or more senior member. Not saying that ok, but..... What was happening to the jr member was not ok either. In fact worse, cuz the senior/goa members should no better and have somewhat of a heavier burden to ACT RIGHT.

People need to start being more nicer, lol.

The problem is not that GoAs are inactive (well, idk, maybe some are, but many are not, lol), the prob is that they have taken their "authority" far too far. They seem to have forgotten the stated purpose of the program.

Some patrol the forum boards like the security guard that drives around the Walmart parking lot constantly on the lookout for some "trouble maker".

Then the slightest problem, instead of handelng it in a useful manner they approach it like it's a fire that has to be put out. OVERKILL Then, often more than one join in tossing more and more water on the "fire", but, hmm.. Fire still burning, cuz they either missed the point all together or they made the discussion worse by the way they handeled it.

Please re-read the stated purpose of the GoA program as typed above. Supposed to diffuse arugments and flame wars, not start them or make them way worse. Supposed to proved USEFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK to the devs and to other players.

The GoA program shouldn't be abolished. Everyone should just remember what we are all supposed to be doing as GoA, senior members, jr members, etc. It is extremely beneficial when everyone simply remembers what they are supposed to be doing.

To bring more players into the forum, we need the correctly functioning GoA program.

As stated above, this post does not have one flame. Not even one. There is nothing here purposly designed to insult anyone. It is someone speaking up cuz of what has been happening.

But, we should realize, that it is an extreme priority to bring more people to this board. Hmm.... Maybe we should stop scaring them away. This forum is in urgent need of the GoA program cuz:

1. We need USEFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE FEED BACK.

2. We need a FRIENDLY forum.

3. We need to increase COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. Hmm.. Lets stop scaring off new and kinda new members.

4. We need people who are HELPFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE to be very VISABLE.

Those are the four stated purposes of the GoA program. We need tons more of all four!

[Zeus]

Royce is turning over in his grave somewhere.

If Royce was removed, I'd be irate. He has got to be the most helpful guy I have ever seen on forums. He was the person that inspired me to be helpful in the first place. Royce is and always will be a legend in my book.

[Zeus]

I disagree that the GoA program should be disbanded. It is an extremely beneficial program. Problems are developing because some forum members have forgotten the stated purpose of the GoA program. A quote from the thread that started the program:

GoAs should:
1. Proved useful and constructive feedback to both players and STS devs.
2. Help keep forums clean and friendly by reporting inappropriate posts and to attempt to diffuse arguments and flamewars.
3. Fostser community development with player run events and good will, etc.
4. Be visible, helpful and constructive.

Who would want to end a program like that? That is exactly what we need more of, not less.

However, some forum members are confused and expanding on the above in ways that are causing a lot of problems.

So now, some want to end the program cuz they are upset at the way STS is going to pick the next GoA. Why shouldn't the person who is the most helpful on the support portal get rewarded for their effort? The current GoAs got rewarded for their effort.

Just cuz someone is answering a lot of questions doesn't mean they are only doing it to get the shield. That may or may not be one of the incentives, but for many there are other incentives as well. People keep trying to read other player's minds. That is impossible.

People saying that just cuz they doing it to get some kind of reward that that is "dishonest" or it's not as pure as doing it for no reward or whatever ideas. That makes very little sense. In the entire history of mankind and for the rest of eternity, 99% of all achievements, successes, accomplishments, progress, and most discoveries will be the direct result of someone sitting down, figuring out some goal they would like to accomplish or some problem they would like to resolve, then planning out bunches of steps to achieve their dream, and dedicating themselves to that idea.

So what if someone is answering questions in hopes to become GoA? There is nothing wrong with that. The devs set up some sort of support portal and want players to answer questions. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Every charitable organization spends huge amounts of time and some money to thank and honor the people who have helped them out. Wut, you think the Red Cross says to their volunteers, come help us during the next big flood, however, we not going to honor you or thank you.

I find it hard to believe that there are some who have a problem with someone saying, "wow, I'd love to be acknowledged and have that shield and that title and have people look up to me, sooo, the devs said that I could participate in the new support forum, so I'm going to answer as many questions as I can". What is wrong with that. That's not being dishonest, that's having a plan.

Btw, DI has a sig that promotes a blog that he writes. Hmm... Do I have a prob with that? Is that bad? NO NO NO NO, it is self-promotion and millioins of people do it every single, every single day especially in social media. So, unless the devs don't permit, and why they would care, i couldn't possible come up with even a guess, so as long as ok with the devs, who cares, so what, no biggie, live and let live, who cares if someone puts in their sig to vote for them or w/e so maybe that help get them GoA. In fact, an absolute wonderful thread that was just started the other day, the senior member asked for a thumbs up. I've seen it lots of times.

Then some are saying that the only forum members "worthy" of this honor are the current ones. That in the furture, no other "honest", helpful people will exist. Are people saying that the current GoAs are the only ones who are honest and helpful. Hmm... That is quite a accusation if that is what some are saying. It's completely false and a bit of an insult.

No wait, some are saying that there will be "honest" and helpful members in the future, but they don't really need or deserve to be rewarded. Hmmm.....why is that?

Then a second problem: Many,many times when someone disagrees with them, if they don't have logic or reason to respond with, they just start accusing that person of flaming, even when no flaming happened.

Look at the forum rules: A flame is a post specifically designed to berate or insult another player.

But what happens so often is if player A disagrees with player B, and player B don't really have logic or reason on his side, player B just starts screaming, "you're flaming me". A disagreement is not a flame. A flame is a flame. There is a difference. You will be able to read this entire post and not see one flame. Or, some will try to get threads locked and now, some are trying to get rid of the GoA program all together.

You don't want to be GoA, that cool, just give back the shield (or keep it as a reward for past help you gave), step down and others will gladly take your place. Or..... Just revisit the stated goals of the program and rethink the way you handle some threads/posts. Option two = best option.

I just read a thread, that actually inspired me to respond to this one. Everyone knows which one I'm talking about. The one where a player was suggesting a trade of different bows in game. People responded in unnecessary ways and as it turns out with incorrect information. Turning a simple, perfectly innocent post into a ridic onslaught against the op. And what I was so surprised and very happy to see, is that this op stood up for himself.

And it seems like sometimes people can't stand to have their "authority questioned". That thread like so many others got worse and worse cuz, not what the op was saying cuz of what the others were saying.

Please re-read the purpose of the GoA as typed above and the ACTUAL, REAL definition of flaming if you disagree with the last paragraph above.

Some, many, many times, have no prob breaking the very rules, they try to "enforce". No one ever says anything cuz either don't care that the rule was broken, cuz after all he senior member, or afraid that he is going to get flamed for standing up for himself or someone else.

Then others are going on and on and on about how the poor GoAs are being flamed. I have not seen one, not one, not one flame against against a GoA that wasn't only after the player was treated inappropraitely by one or more senior member. Not saying that ok, but..... What was happening to the jr member was not ok either. In fact worse, cuz the senior/goa members should no better and have somewhat of a heavier burden to ACT RIGHT.

People need to start being more nicer, lol.

The problem is not that GoAs are inactive (well, idk, maybe some are, but many are not, lol), the prob is that they have taken their "authority" far too far. They seem to have forgotten the stated purpose of the program.

Some patrol the forum boards like the security guard that drives around the Walmart parking lot constantly on the lookout for some "trouble maker".

Then the slightest problem, instead of handelng it in a useful manner they approach it like it's a fire that has to be put out. OVERKILL Then, often more than one join in tossing more and more water on the "fire", but, hmm.. Fire still burning, cuz they either missed the point all together or they made the discussion worse by the way they handeled it.

Please re-read the stated purpose of the GoA program as typed above. Supposed to diffuse arugments and flame wars, not start them or make them way worse. Supposed to proved USEFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK to the devs and to other players.

The GoA program shouldn't be abolished. Everyone should just remember what we are all supposed to be doing as GoA, senior members, jr members, etc. It is extremely beneficial when everyone simply remembers what they are supposed to be doing.

To bring more players into the forum, we need the correctly functioning GoA program.

As stated above, this post does not have one flame. Not even one. There is nothing here purposly designed to insult anyone. It is someone speaking up cuz of what has been happening.

But, we should realize, that it is an extreme priority to bring more people to this board. Hmm.... Maybe we should stop scaring them away. This forum is in urgent need of the GoA program cuz:

1. We need USEFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE FEED BACK.

2. We need a FRIENDLY forum.

3. We need to increase COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. Hmm.. Lets stop scaring off new and kinda new members.

4. We need people who are HELPFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE to be very VISABLE.

Those are the four stated purposes of the GoA program. We need tons more of all four!

I am deeply sorry for the inconvenience of this double post but this Great Wall of China deserved it's own recognition. What you are saying for the most part is absolutely right. I myself admit to being pompous in manner sometimes when I am stressed and let my emotions take over. It's not right so when I finally do catch myself, I stop. Anyways, I just wanted to give this post the recognition it deserved. Definitely earning a thumbs up.

[Moogerfooger]

If Royce was removed, I'd be irate. He has got to be the most helpful guy I have ever seen on forums. He was the person that inspired me to be helpful in the first place. Royce is and always will be a legend in my book.

I'm not going to comment on anything else in this thread because there are good points on both sides of the argument and I'd just be repeating what other have said, but Royce was the original Guardian (or one of the first couple), I guaran-damn-tee you he did it solely for trying to help people out. Wish he was still around. Dude was a beast.

[Aikiebo]

I am deeply sorry for the inconvenience of this double post but this Great Wall of China deserved it's own recognition. What you are saying for the most part is absolutely right. I myself admit to being pompous in manner sometimes when I am stressed and let my emotions take over. It's not right so when I finally do catch myself, I stop. Anyways, I just wanted to give this post the recognition it deserved. Definitely earning a thumbs up.

Hey! I'm glad you agree.

I'm not trying to say that some people are being pompous. Just sometimes get carried away. But generally good intentions. Just go way, way too far sometimes.

"Great Wall of China" lol, I like that, lol. Of course, my long post, was a simple, meager and humble add-on to the long, long, long thread where many were simply repeating what was already stated so many times and/or being so illogical. I don't have PC, just this device and as I said don't exactly run 100% correctly. So, I tried to answer all incorrect ideas in one post. But yeah, prob too long. So, next time, will respond to each individual post. That will be easier for all the forum members and for me as well. So, very good point.

But, I know this post gonna get thumbs down by many. But, I don't care because it is more important to get this out. The lightning-fast agreement will also help to keep the discussion from getting too involved. Which is point of GoA. See, more proof that we need the GoA program!

[Moogerfooger]

Excellent post Aikebo, but just because you do not agree with some of the posts here, does not make them "incorrect" or "illogical" and that you have the "correct" answers :) Everyone is entitled to their opinions however they see fit.

[DawnInfinity]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. Still curious to hear more. I'm glad that this can be debated respectfully, and I'm also glad to see other GoAs contributing :)

[Zeus]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. Still curious to hear more. I'm glad that this can be debated respectfully, and I'm also glad to see other GoAs contributing :)

Yeah, I'm in awe how this topic has been relatively flame free. It's quite a hot topic. I'll post more thoughts on it later. :)

[Aikiebo]

Excellent post
Aikebo, but just because you do not agree with some of the posts here, does not make them "incorrect" or "illogical" and that you have the "correct" answers :) Everyone is entitled to their opinions however they see fit.

Hey! Thank you for the complement (or compliment, whichever, lol).

True, there are some things that are just a matter or opinion. Then there are some things that are either facts or incorrect. Really depends on what someone is talking about.

What I was saying in the brief responce (verses the only man made object that can be seen from the moon, response, lol) was that I put all my responces to a whole bunch of posts in this long thread in my long post. Which, I agreed that I shouldn't have done. Cuz, it made my post too long. So, from now on, I'll just respond to each individual post. So, this way my posts be shorter.

People tell each other that they are wrong, incorrect, illogical all the time. I'm far from the first. Lol, in fact, in the long thread, there were many members accusing someone else of being incorrect. That's an ok thing to do, as long as you do it in a good way.

How many times has a senior member told some brand new member that "they are wrong" when it just a matter of opinion?

[Redbridge]

I said it above and I'm glad Aikiebo's great post picked it up too.

The problem isn't the GoA Award scheme, as STS are more than entitled to reward people they feel deserve rewarding. The problem IMHO is people's misunderstanding of what a GoA is. It is reasonably well defined but I think for whatever reason some people's expectations have been greatly skewed.

I think people need to reduce their expectations of GoA. We are just players who got thanked. That's it. Nothing else. We just got thanked..

Like Max said above, I didn't asked for the reward, and was extremely shocked and chuffed to have even been considered let alone been rewarded. But I've got a life away from PL, a 24/7 rota job, a wife and 3 kids and plenty of hobbies, one of which is STS's games. I don't play any other games, and to be fair the STS community has become a little part of my life which I enjoy greatly.

But, reading some of the posts above makes me wonder what exactly do people actually expect from a GoA? Maybe that might be a good thread to start, so we can actually gauge what the community's thoughts of what a GoA is.

In answer to your questions Steph, it might be an idea to suspend the GoA scheme for PL for the moment and concentrate on creating small team of Star Guards.

But, to finish, Ive got broad shoulders if anyone wants to give me directly, or STS any +ve or -ve feedback about how I'm doing then feel free. It's very much welcomed.

[Whirlzap]

I'll put this in my words, may sound mean:
Strip the old GoAs, statuses and re-title them as "Pocket Legend" for they WERE the first true legends of PL.
Also, lock GoAs, annoying having so many goody-pants around.
Another thing, I removed my add rep to me in my signature for one thing, I don't want to be obssessed with that function.
Also, what is the point of achieving GoA? You get a shield? Then what?
A title? Lolwut? You go around getting to be a Guardian of Alterra and act so mighty?

If you are thinking about this and are a current GoA, you might as well quit.
Being a GoA doesn't mean you will get treated in any special way or have everyone bowing to you.
I'll treat you like everyone else, the way I want to. And for those who want to aim to be this type of GoA, go ahead. And lose your little piece of pride getting there.



I think it's better to simply lock GoA because sooner or later you'll have 1/10 the population as GoAs.
Go ahead, play the game, forget about GoA because you're not gonna get it if you stress too hard.
And along with what I think Developers have in mind, I am against GoA feature 100% from what I realized the past few weeks of the forums and the game.
What is the solution?
Do nothing.
Don't announce any GoAs at all, and don't announce that you won't.
Because there are plenty of people out there that I can see, who simply does this and that just to become a GoA.
I have my own intentions and I do stuff because I want to do it for myself.

And
Anyways, along with what Ali said.
You say GoAs are part of the game.
Heh, what is the game without GoAs?
The same. There are still helpful people. True GoAs still help all the time.
Only the specific people that were chosen are given a different name.
I'm sure the game would still be the same if GoA never got introduced...or would it?
And what Red said was, we are just players who got thanked.
Well, it seems the different way sometimes. I've seen plenty of people "thank" the devs. I am not taking offense, but why thank the devs if you KNOW you deserve and have earned this honor?
A true GoA knows if he has earned the honor. Let the community vote. Or let the current GoAs vote.
There will still be some heishmyfriendsoivoteforhim nonsense, but this is our community and this is our GoAs serving the community. I believe this should be a democracy. I believe, at the least, in which more people should have a word before nominating anyone at all.

Last point I will opinionize.
Guardians of Alterra. Many of them I see come from making lots of guides/contests.
Only a few have come from doing other examples to show the community what they wish to do.
Making guides or contests is what the average player does.
Hey, I just made a guide on how Zombies kill level 1 players easier than level 56 players! Or hey I just hosted a 10million gold contest? Do I deserve GoA now? I maybe be completely wrong on this, but most of these simply seem to be sucking up to the developers. Then, if we consider guides/contests invalid, then what can you do to deserve a GoA?
1. The opposite of what this entire thing is.
Don't ask what you can do. To get on your own destiny, don't buy a map and follow the route. Ask people along the way, some who took the path and some who didn't. Some who suffered and some who were rewarded.
And then comes the hardest part. Ask yourself what you want.
And then go make your own map and make your own way down the road.
Basically what this metaphor/simile means is, learn from others and then learn from yourself.
Sometimes I record myself on PL just to see what my playing style is like.
Sometimes I PVP myself or grind with myself on another device JUST to see what I am like.
And this makes my mage stronger.
And this will make you stronger too.
There are many qualities in becoming a GoA and you can never get them all.
And then comes the question again, "What is a GoA?" and what do we do about it?"
If you ask me, I don't know. I would say, do what you think should be done, because I don't know.
I re-read this post a few times and realized that I now disagree/agree with stuff I say.
It's always going to be a mixed opinion of what GoA is but there will always be a general idea.
I hope STS chooses carefully each time because these people reflect STS and their games.

[Slush]

The rest of my thoughts - can the current support portal contest (that's what I think of it to be blatantly honest). The answers I've seen on the support portal were people repeating what others previously said, and that they're just answering for the sake of a higher post-count and a chance at the shield. Stop the GoA program, or maybe announce stopped the GoA program and surprisingly pick someone who had remained helpful even after said announcement, if you get what I mean. All inactive GoA's should retain their status, it is what they did that made them a GoA, not what they're doing. Of course, the devs will disagree with me about the contest and GoA program because it's making the community act all nice and suck up to the devs and guardians. I agree with Swim, all these people acting unnatural makes me feel uncomfortable, that's why I'm not nearly as active as I used to be, on the forums or in game. The acts some people put on are so transparent even a primary student would notice it.
My opinion may seem harsh to some, but it's what I've come to think of most (not all) of the community.

[Arterra]

two cents coming up:
-this support thing may be overreaching the use of the GoA system (its not even a program, it is just an award) but it is in the end helping players get answers. nothing is more sad than seeing a empty, old question in yahoo answers.
-as stated, award. a while ago we had a few threads asking about GoA privileges and such, and the frank answer was that it was not the equivalent of a player-mod, it is simply a pretty shield. lets not get into fairness discussion of previous owners keeping them if GoA disbanded, that is a road towards veteran award arguments...

i like my shield. i wont lie, it makes me slightly vain. I use it in dungeons and townes to impress, but that is no crime. it is called a vanity shield for a reason, why not use it. PL shields get same awesome status.
i have used the GoA card very sparingly, but when used was simply to give bit more credibility to my claim when explaining some game dynamic or such.

final statement: yes im currently off air. might be back, not sure. the university im currently at has very difficult internet access, not to mention studies and outside life. but since the shield represents deeds done, not a quota of deeds per day, no reason to get rid of it. if some GoA are uncomfortable/humble about their position, you can always be a senior member/delete own shield.

[Arterra]

If Royce was removed, I'd be irate. He has got to be the most helpful guy I have ever seen on forums. He was the person that inspired me to be helpful in the first place. Royce is and always will be a legend in my book.

double post or no, this ^

royce is probably the inspiration for the first 3 rounds of GoA, and those who have yet to get it too (like Phar).

he is the perfect example of the perfect community guy. removing it would be like retracting sainthood. royce was already starting to fade from activity when he got the shield, yet not one person who knew him would happily say he doesnt deserve to keep it.

[DawnInfinity]

I'll put this in my words, may sound mean:
Strip the old GoAs, statuses and re-title them as "Pocket Legend" for they WERE the first true legends of PL.
Also, lock GoAs, annoying having so many goody-pants around.
Another thing, I removed my add rep to me in my signature for one thing, I don't want to be obssessed with that function.
Also, what is the point of achieving GoA? You get a shield? Then what?
A title? Lolwut? You go around getting to be a Guardian of Alterra and act so mighty?

If you are thinking about this and are a current GoA, you might as well quit.
Being a GoA doesn't mean you will get treated in any special way or have everyone bowing to you.
I'll treat you like everyone else, the way I want to. And for those who want to aim to be this type of GoA, go ahead. And lose your little piece of pride getting there.


There are many qualities in becoming a GoA and you can never get them all.
And then comes the question again, "What is a GoA?" and what do we do about it?"
If you ask me, I don't know. I would say, do what you think should be done, because I don't know.
I re-read this post a few times and realized that I now disagree/agree with stuff I say.
It's always going to be a mixed opinion of what GoA is but there will always be a general idea.
I hope STS chooses carefully each time because these people reflect STS and their games.
I also read your post a few times and found your thoughts to be semi-contradictory. I don't consider your first point to be necessarily mean at all.

Firstly, arguably, there is no point to the Guardianship status, as you pretty much stated. Overall, I think the community has grown from the program with all of the little Alterrans running around doing good deeds. I'm not specifying WHICH DIRECTION the community has grown. Of course this was prevalent prior to the implementation of the program, and the game would probably be the same without it. I don't see why you are talking about the implementation of further GoAs when you said you were 100% against the program itself. Of course, the model Guardian has been and always will be Royce. You must be mistaken, because I'm pretty positive that each of the current Guardians has definitely distinguished themselves within the STS community. True, most of us have made guides. Personally, I have not. What I do feel though is that this is very BENEFICIAL to the community itself. This enriches players' knowledge of the game and thusly improves the game as a whole. You can most likely trust that a Guardian's guide is knowledgable and accurate. Although the program obviously has negatives, it allows players to aspire to be something greater. Referring to your whole spiel about journeys and destinies, it was interesting, but it kind of decreases the validity your of whole point due to the fluffy cliche behind it. I don't think it's wrong at all to want to be a Guardian. In fact, the most selfless acts are made out of selfishness. So, from the Guardians you have seen, who has been running around flaunting their red shield pixels acting so mighty?

[Physiologic]

I am not a real fan of the Support Portal thing; I really don't think people should be awarded for racking as much answers as possible. Yes I'm sure quality of answers are a criteria but there is simply not enough/will not be enough questions or issues to conclude that someone is really helpful on the Support Portal. Several of the questions are answered through "pls e-mail support[at]spacetimestudios.com" anyway.

Royce was a real genius, and unfortunately many players won't be able to witness his work any longer as he is also what I would consider the first true Guardian. He was definitely my role model when I first started playing and what got me interested in game mechanics in the first place. Off-topic but does anyone else know exactly why he left (and no, its not because he was burnt out)?

[Whirlzap]

From what I see, I don't think he completely left. And there could be that reason that he left...

[Whirlzap]

There could be another way...
In another forum, I was a Moderator and was given access to what they called "The Moderator Lounge".
What STS should do is simply remove everything about Guardians of Alterra from public eyes and create a secret section of the forum accessible by Guardians of Alterra ONLY.
Eventually the word of GoA will fade. And STS should privately message those who are inaguarated.
I think this is a good and simple way to keep GoA alive but to not see it with negative opinions.
Perhaps if we kept the organization as secret as if no non-GoA knew about them having a shield.

[WhoIsThis]

The only person I would grant an exception, if my rule was implemented (long inactivity = removal of status) would be Royce.

I have no idea why he left - it was very abrupt and he did not say farewell, so there is something we don't know.

[noneo]

The only person I would grant an exception, if my rule was implemented (long inactivity = removal of status) would be Royce.

I have no idea why he left - it was very abrupt and he did not say farewell, so there is something we don't know.

Gosh. If Royce ever returns, STS better come out with a game wide celebration upon his first post. Or at least a Royce vanity or something.

[Slush]

Only if Royce could see this!

[Zeus]

The only person I would grant an exception, if my rule was implemented (long inactivity = removal of status) would be Royce.

I have no idea why he left - it was very abrupt and he did not say farewell, so there is something we don't know.

He was playing O&C before. He said he was burnt out from PL. After that, I do not know.

[Zeus]

There could be another way...
In another forum, I was a Moderator and was given access to what they called "The Moderator Lounge".
What STS should do is simply remove everything about Guardians of Alterra from public eyes and create a secret section of the forum accessible by Guardians of Alterra ONLY.
Eventually the word of GoA will fade. And STS should privately message those who are inaguarated.
I think this is a good and simple way to keep GoA alive but to not see it with negative opinions.
Perhaps if we kept the organization as secret as if no non-GoA knew about them having a shield.

There is already a secret forum for that.

[Otukura]

From what I see, I don't think he completely left. And there could be that reason that he left...

What do you see? His last post was a week before you joined, his last visit was only two days after you joined. Not trying to flame, just curious.


There is already a secret forum for that.

I stood there for 5 minutes deciding whether to post that or not. I guess Sam told us all not to discuss what goes on inside it, not that it doesn't exist? BTW, when was it created? May?

[RedRyder]

While Royce was absent here, he and I played order and chaos together. He's fine, he just doesn't play STS games anymore or writes here. He indeed is the best guardian out of all of us, and I'm positive all of us can agree with that.

[Arterra]

There is already a secret forum for that.

well yes, but plenty of non GoA in there. besides the fact that after a few months it dwindled down to one post a few days.

hmm, current secret forum system works a-ok i guess.

[Moogerfooger]

Royce told me there was also something else that he told me as to why he that had nothing to do with the game, something with real life that is personal/not repeating. He was also in OC for a bit as RedRyder said, and did the same thing in OC after a while. Wish he were still around to keep us all honest :p