[Elixirs are ruining PL?]

[Nightarcher]

This is a small rant blah blah blah, containing my opinion on elixirs and how they're ruining Pocket Legends.

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When Elixirs were introduced, they were small boosts (the 1.5x elixirs today) available for gold or a few platinum each. It worked well because you wouldn't suffer much from not using one, and it was a good way to spend extra gold. Gradually, they introduced elixirs with more and more bonuses, and made them Platinum-exclusive. It's a good way for STS to make money, but now with 3x and 4x mixes, we have several huge problems.

1. It has led to PL domination by those who spend lots of Real-world money on the game. Elixirs, mainly mixes with armor/speed/damage boosts are used 24/7 by a HUGE percentage of high levels. Economically, this is a good thing. But in terms of the game? It allows people to "buy their way through the game."

2. Pretty much the inverse of #1; people who don't spend real-world money are at a huge disadvantage, except many in pvp which doesn't matter. :D

3. As a direct result of #1, the teamwork and skill required to play all the dungeons has decreased astronomically. When's the last time you died with a 4x mix on? Ok, don't answer that; you get the point. PL has lost many of the Dungeon-dynamics strong in AO3 and te Sewers. Plus, tank/crowd-controlling bears are practically useless now!


--

Now, I'm fine with the xp-elixirs. But when you quadruple people's armor and damage, there's a problem. I would personally change the 3x and 4x elixirs to give the same damage/armor/speed/luck as the 2x, which should be the max in my opinion.

Another idea: make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.



DISCLAIMER: Neither am I claiming the awesome Devs are being greedy, nor that Elixirs are evil and demonic and must be burned! I simply think the stat-boosting Elixirs need tweaking, adjusting, and balancing.




I may put some of these ideas into a formal suggestion or something, but for now it's just my thoughts and ideas. And I want to know yours too! What is your opinion on it today?


--Night :D

[CodyBearr]

The 4X & 3X's XP Gain Make Playing Pointless! I want to get to the highest lv quick aswell but I enjoy playing and take my time.... Every now and then I'll buy the 1.5X for gold and if I really want to wear some gear and have the plat I'll use the 2X for 5mins for 1plat :-) mainly cuz I'm cheap and I love playing thus why I only have one high lv char and two low lv's

[NECROREAPER]

I think that it's just a phase for now night, as it seems that everyone wants to get to 60/61 as soon as possible

[Bakoffmycandy]

Interesting pov. I personally use them when I can. I'm not rich by any means, but love the fact it helps support the future of the game. I'm sure STS does well as a company & have no problem buying Plat when I'm able too. That said, I understand some of where your coming from.

On a x4 I can literally walk through any dungeon. Bosses may take a bit solo but I do feel a bit op lol.

One thing that really gets me is not being on an Elixer & tryn to tank. Anyone using an Elixer does way too much damage to hold Aggro.

As for the Mount Fang, I'm all for it being Elixer free. As is just in Nuris, a non Elixer group really shows who knows there class & who doesn't. A couple runs actually require teamwork. Thing I'm curious about is actually how hard will it be? Is it even gonna be feasible to run not using a x4? Only time will tell.

[Gluttony]

I agree that it's reducing the gameplay, players are indeed buying their way through the game. From the viewpoint of STS it must be the greatest idea since the creation of the game. I walk into games where the entire group (my cheap self excluded) is juiced up on combo elixirs and I'm just trying to keep up. My main issue is that STS removed kill farming to make the leaderboards mean something, but all it seems to mean is players can now buy their way into another niche of the game. I get booted from more games now than ever since I'm not spending my real world money to blaze through the new campaign only to be bored for another 6 months.

So sure I'd love the addition of an elite campaign; much like how Frozen Nightmare used to be with no pots or elixirs (could you use elixirs there, I forget). I'd also even enjoy if the all the elixirs options that were once available via gold to come back. Now I understand that STS has no real reason except the gripes of a few to do either of these, they're making money hand over fist so why change that? Just getting tired of being kicked simply because I refuse to spend my money ona consumable item!

[Truseeker]

I cant believe I'm reading this .... night u pot with us on runs too!!! Is it not much quicker and much more fun? Once lvl cap is reached why not pot up and dominate the map ur farming? I work hard for my money and I choose to blow it on plat ...Woot!! Hahahh I know u like plat too. sooooooo.... pot up or shut up... jokes!! See ya in game.....
Kingatdeath 61

[Ellyidol]

+1 on this Night.

IMO, XP is fine to elixir up, if you want to level up faster, nothing wrong. It's the armour, damage, and speed.

As a bear, I need to move faster than the team. If even one bird/Mage pots up, I have to as well. I can't keep up by being slower.

I'm fortunate enough to have the means to allow myself to elixir up a lot, but putting myself in someone else's shoes, I can see the problem.

Pro-elixir though, more $$$ for STS would mean faster development as well? :D

Maybe it's fine the way it is though, you dont really have to use elixirs.

I don't know, I'm confused D:

[darkfussion]

If you feel like it ruins the game for you, simple don't buy them :)

[Ellyidol]

If you feel like it ruins the game for you, simple don't buy them :)

It's not the using of elixirs that ruins the game, IMO. It's the effect of using them and the effect of others using them.

The effect of your team using elixirs and you not using elixirs is not enjoying the game as well. Mainly because they'll be running through the map almost twice as fast as you and all you do is move to follow.

The only real way to avoid this is getting a group of non-elixers which in turn creates that difference between an elixir user and non-elixir user.

[Gluttony]

If you feel like it ruins the game for you, simple don't buy them :)

It doesn't have to do with me, but the company I keep. If I join a game and everyone is on elixirs then I only have a few options: 1) Try to keep up 2) Purchase an elixir myself 3) Leave the game (voluntarily or involuntarily).

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2659/img0969l.png

It seems to create a bit of elitism to, imo. I've been laughed at and put down simply because I died, when all I can think is that your stats are boosted x3!

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/343/img0971.png

[Nightarcher]

I cant believe I'm reading this .... night u pot with us on runs too!!! Is it not much quicker and much more fun? Once lvl cap is reached why not pot up and dominate the map ur farming? I work hard for my money and I choose to blow it on plat ...Woot!! Hahahh I know u like plat too. sooooooo.... pot up or shut up... jokes!! See ya in game.....
Kingatdeath 61

Hehe yes, I do use pots, but only ever 2x 30 min (8 plat) or 1.5x 5 min (7,000 gold). It is quicker, but there's a side-effect.

XP Elixirs - Cut down time needed to level. Yeah it makes it quicker, but you still need skill to kill stuff and take advantage of it.

Damage/Armor/Speed Elixirs - Also make leveling quicker, but drastically reduce the difficulty of all dungeons. A bit isn't bad, but too much is too much. :)

[Arterra]

This argument is as old as elixirs themselves.

I can only agree completely with one point: that it kills teamplay.
If people want to buy their way, fine. Still takes enough time to make them learn the basics. But the fact is that many of us are inactive because of the tedium of the game, and being able to walk a dungeon is part of that.

[Zaltiar]

When I first started potting up (lol) in pl, it was to gain faster xp and just get to 61 before I had to stop to study for mid terms.
but after a while, I do think it got a little excessive. I agree with El, it does somewhat ruin the fun for the others in the group,
they get pissed that we elixir users rush forward and kill bosses before they arrive. But then looking at the perspective of elixir users
they spent real money purchasing elixirs. They'd want to spend every penny worth, if they had to keep pausing to wait for the others,
that decreases the value of their purchase. and with this new update of elixir stacking....ooh man :)
Every mmorpg uses some form of stat boosting item that costs real money. I doubt sts will complain, they get funding for their company,
customers get stat boosts and quicker lvling. Players who don't buy elixirs don't lose anything, other then super fast xp runs.
yes it becomes less fun, but they can always enter another run.
just my 2 cents, k back to revising.
Hey guys, next time we do a run, no elixirs? :D .........nah.


EDIT: hm, what if theres some sort of waiting period before someone can use an elixir again?
then they wont be so tempted to pot up again. :)

[Shadowie]

There r group that still run without elixir. Join me anytime for a non elixir run. Cheers!

Btw, i dun oppose elixir!

[pastrychef]

I've never been a big fan of elixirs. Ever since Nuri's was released, it has really gotten out of hand. Players who would otherwise never be able to survive seem to believe they are "leet" now. Leveling from 55-56 was challenging, fun, and frustrating. When we finally got our crowns of persistence, it was something to be proud of. Now, leveling from 60-61 is just a matter of chasing the potters.

[davidis57]

The biggest issue is not the use of elixirs or non-use its balance. One very difficult thing is to keep peoples interest, adding new content, while still maintaining balance. If you find your interest in the game diminishing (sorry devs) than the game is getting out of balance. I am finding that the game for me is not keeping my interest even with the new levels and content. I played first day of new level cap for less than an hour and logged in 2 other times and than logged off. After looking around I determined that Nuris was just like oasis and sewers just different look and bosses. Just more dungeons with a different look same concept.

PL Characters Timbabird-55 Oldsillymage-55 SL Character Oldblaster-22

[Moogerfooger]

Good post and points by Night and Gluttony and others on both sides. Before Nuri's I had never used combo elixirs, just the gold xp ones we all used to use. But although I loaded up on the 4x this time around, I agree on the dmg and armor pots. The old 2x armor and dmg were ok, most of us used those too at least once in a while, like on OL runs in AO3, the gold ones. On the flip side, I don't mind supporting the devs with some plat here and there. But like you guys said, it does create problems when people get booted for not having them, or fall behind through no fault of their own and miss out on xp because they are too far away from the leaders killing everything.

Mt Fang with some sort of lowered dmg/armor/combo elixir, nothing above the old 2x would be fun, I'd be down for that...would keep groups together and lower that since of invincibilty (and unfortunately some elitism a few 4x potters seem to have shown) as well. I always tried to hold up slightly if people were in my runs and not speed potted because I wanted everyone to get the xp, but looks like not everyone feels the same way from what Glut and others are saying.

[Zaltiar]

Mt. Fang with no elixir policy. that would be an awesome challenge.
I think the problem right now is that since this is a new map, people are trying to get all the new gear etc, get $$ quickly.
I mean, just look at the prices for glyph auto set. its more than 10mill. the vast majority of people dont even have that much.
The prices will stabilize back to "normal" what ever it is and players will become less focused on farming with elixirs.
im sure this elixir phase will not last long :)

[jiroununu]

It doesn't have to do with me, but the company I keep. If I join a game and everyone is on elixirs then I only have a few options: 1) Try to keep up 2) Purchase an elixir myself 3) Leave the game (voluntarily or involuntarily).

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2659/img0969l.png

It seems to create a bit of elitism to, imo. I've been laughed at and put down simply because I died, when all I can think is that your stats are boosted x3!

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/343/img0971.png

WOW,i'm in your screen shot. Nuri Hallow is actually quite hard without any elixirs. Mobs and some bosses hit very hard and have very high health. Compared to BS, which you can clear any maps within 5mins without any elixirs, you need more time and are more likely to wipe out in NH.
Everything has two sides, if they ban elixirs and everyone run NH without them, i bet you 10mil they will be flood of posts here complaining make dungeon easier or bring back elixirs lol.
People always talk about losing challenge,interest,blahblahblah, but how many of you are farming shadow cave V when lvl50 is the cap? Sorry no offence, but that was the hardest dungeon without elixirs in all time, not even NH can compare to it. What i am saying is, it's really hard to make everyone happy.

[Yvonnel]

Some good points here. I personally use elixirs (as many of you know). I don't mind buying and using plat. I have a job and family that I support very well and am fortunate enough to have disposable income. I understand people not wanting to use elixirs, and thats cool. I personally have never booted for any other reason than full parties or someone using foul language. Many times I run in parties where i am the only one that pots. I use elixirs because I don't have hours to play. If I'm lucky I get to play an hour a night and alot of that time is chatting (I died so many times last night because of the new guild chat - I Love It) so elixirs help me make it to level cap. I also do alot of soloing, no chance of doing Nuri's Hallows without an elixir.

That being said I know how to play my alts though. I run accross so many players that don't know how to play at all. I understand the value of good bears, birds, and mages in all of their variations. You wanna run with no elixirs add me I will be glad to host some no elixir runs. It would be really fun.

[WoundedEagle]

Make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.


YES

[CrimsonTider]

Good topic bro and love the discussion! Here is my piece of the pie....

Everyone knows I am a pot-head. :) But I only use elixirs when I level. Job + family + football = limited PL time. Elixirs allow me to keep my toons at end cap without spending MONTHS leveling. My only issue with elixirs is Glut's problem: Booting. I never have, nor ever will, ask someone to pot up in my runs. Same cannot be said for others and it is sad. This kind of pressure should not be tollerated but I understand it is hard for STS to police. As most of us agree, I love to support the game I love, but to force others to do the same is wrong.

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

[Yvonnel]

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

Well said Crimson!

[Kakatoa91]

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

Well said Crimson!

Indeed, but some weakness still show up even with plat elixir... :cool:
Joined once a random game with a host plat elixir bear... he still didnt know how to use beckon/ taunt properly at lvl 58 i think. he dies, team dies and kept on yellin heal heal.
I prefered to autoboot myself that day b4 doin any comments, didnt feel somehow that guy was open for discussion. :D


Imo the rush on plat elixir will decrease later on. More normal games will takes place once greater numbers of non/low plat users get closer to nuri maps or majority of plat lvler finish max their avatars.
So im confident pace will drop soon in general.

Atm my bear just do taunt, beckon, 1/2 debuff, wait for bird/mage skills or stomp first and run fast but not to far to prepare other pack of mob while team finish cleaning. Quite tiring to anticipate and move quickly just to be in front of plat lvlers.
My pve kills didnt increase much coz of that.

[Zaltiar]

Indeed, but some weakness still show up even with plat elixir... :cool:
Joined once a random game with a host plat elixir bear... he still didnt know how to use beckon/ taunt properly at lvl 58 i think. he dies, team dies and kept on yellin heal heal.
I prefered to autoboot myself that day b4 doin any comments, didnt feel somehow that guy was open for discussion. :D


Imo the rush on plat elixir will decrease later on. More normal games will takes place once greater numbers of non/low plat users get closer to nuri maps or majority of plat lvler finish max their avatars.
So im confident pace will drop soon in general.

Atm my bear just do taunt, beckon, 1/2 debuff, wait for bird/mage skills or stomp first and run fast but not to far to prepare other pack of mob while team finish cleaning. Quite tiring to anticipate and move quickly just to be in front of plat lvlers.
My pve kills didnt increase much coz of that.

I might have gotten the same bear once or twice in a pug run. he ran in front, got in the middle of the mobs, beckoned and stomped.
every single mob flew in every direction possible. i asked kindly if he could beckon the mobs to walls/corners and stomp them back but he never listened lol
btw, its cause of awesome bears like you my birds kill count is rocketing :D haha

[StompArtist]

XP elixirs seem to be replacing mynas gen power leveling. We are seeing more and more high level characters with little skill (I am not directing this at all the elixir users). We soon will be facing the Elixir gen who have started on 3x elixirs at very low levels and just blasted through the game without any understanding of mechanics. A 3x elixir will allow you to acquire 60000xp in the time it would take for a non elixir user to get 20000. That is huge!

[Gluttony]

A 3x elixir will allow you to acquire 60000xp in the time it would take for a non elixir user to get 20000. That is huge!

There is also a 4x xp elixir, which seems to be what most are using, so 80k xp in the time a non-user would get 20k.

[drewcapu]

Another idea: make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.


I still wish elite campaigns were pot/elixir free.

I'd even go so far as to have elite campaigns make you unequip items that are above the level of the campaign.

[csb]

Nuri Hallow is actually quite hard without any elixirs. Mobs and some bosses hit very hard and have very high health. Compared to BS, which you can clear any maps within 5mins without any elixirs, you need more time and are more likely to wipe out in NH.
Everything has two sides, if they ban elixirs and everyone run NH without them, i bet you 10mil they will be flood of posts here complaining make dungeon easier or bring back elixirs lol.

Yes, NH is harder than BS. But, I regularly complete the levels with groups that are 57 and lower without any elixirs. I purposely look for the lowest level groups that are playing without elixirs. Sometimes they wipe, but sometimes they are very good. I won't join a group of potted 60's.

But my bear has never used a single elixir and is almost 57.

[Doubletime]

Good topic bro and love the discussion! Here is my piece of the pie....

Everyone knows I am a pot-head. :) But I only use elixirs when I level. Job + family + football = limited PL time. Elixirs allow me to keep my toons at end cap without spending MONTHS leveling. My only issue with elixirs is Glut's problem: Booting. I never have, nor ever will, ask someone to pot up in my runs. Same cannot be said for others and it is sad. This kind of pressure should not be tollerated but I understand it is hard for STS to police. As most of us agree, I love to support the game I love, but to force others to do the same is wrong.

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

I think Crimson makes some very good points and I agree with him on many of them. I have used 4x pwnage elixers pretty much non-stop when I play since the campaign came out. Did it make going through the dungeons easier - absolutely. Did it allow me to level faster - absolutely (by the way I am still only 25% of the way to 61). Most of those that I run with in set groups also use some kind of trash can elixer a good bit of the time. And we typically blast through maps in a non-stop death train. Is it boring to me - no. Is it boring to my teammates - don't think so since we play for hours at a time. Do we lack good team skills or lack knowledge of how to play our toons -- in my opinion no way. You are always going to have power leveled toons and people who don't truely take advantage of the group skill dynamics. It is a reality of the game. I don't think elixers will ever have an effect on that one way or another. Either a player cares enough about his or her gaming skills to learn their toon or they don't. Those that don't typically aren't long term players and move on to other things.

I believe once the gear prices level out and more people hit 60, elixer use will go back to more normal levels. The cost of constantly potting eventually catches up to 95% of players. Those that don't are the exception, not the rule. So should STS change a game where the issue is really only with a small fraction of players -- that is up to them but personally I think the answer is no.

And I would never boot a player for using an elixer or not using an elixer. But some people will. Heck, there was a time when we were booted for wearing Big Luck. Booting for silly reasons will always be a part of the game. So develop a good friend list, join a good guild, play with your buddies and have fun. If you are booted for a silly reason -- then file that away and avoid those hosts in the future.


I still wish elite campaigns were pot/elixir free.

I'd even go so far as to have elite campaigns make you unequip items that are above the level of the campaign.

I think there is a fine line the Devs have to walk when creating elite level dungeons. I remember the Shadow Caves before the nerf and the freaking death trap they were for groups. I bet I had over 500 deaths just in those caves. And no one would go in them after the drop rate was nerfed.

Frozen nightmare was the same thing. Most people wouldn't go in that campaign or at least complete the 1000 snowball, 1000 pelt quests until they were far beyond the level the campaign was intended for. Then they allowed pot use and people started going back in it.

So from a development stand point, why spend all this time and energy creating a campaign people aren't going to play once the initial pink drop rate is nerfed? From experience, I think that is what would happen.

Just a different point of view to consider. I see where everyone is coming from. I just have a different perspective. Doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Just that there is another side to it. Hopefully, the Devs consider all of it and come up with what they feel is the best solution. Maybe it is a dungeon that has a mode where you can use pots, and a mode that doesn't. Maybe the drops are different. Maybe not. I think that the Devs are just trying to find a balance that makes the majority of players content. Because I don't think they will ever be able to please everyone all of the time.

And so ends the rambling of a pot-head bird -- the elixer kind.

DT

[Riccits]

Elixiers with plat are ruining the game... ppl cant play without anymore seems. we are way to spoiled of them. joining a party without any elxiers often ends in a fail...
i like to use them too sometimes.. but i dont like to use them bcz my party require it... i get often booted too bcz i dont use elixier. i can understand if i, as non elixer, would get the pink and the other was elixed an i leeched their power... but i hope those actually overusage of elixiers will cool down...

[Redbridge]

I suppose the test is how well do you do without them...

Are Elixirs the new power-levelling??? For another thread me feels...

[Lysdexic]

I'm 100% on creating new maps without any elixir usage... but don't nerf the elixirs. Sure there are some that plow through and don't learn a thing, but everyone seems to forget those who can't dedicate ample amounts of time to a game. I seldom get more than a few hours a week of gameplay for multiple reasons, my kids being the main one. There is no way I could have gone from 50-55 before Nuri's came out with the little amounts I can enjoy the game.

The one's who pot up and haven't learned a thing still won't learn a thing even if you strip away the boost. They're from the silver-spoon generation that gets 12th place trophies. They want the best and they want it now. Even if it was nerfed, they would find other ways to get there quickly and still not learn a thing. You cannot change those play-styles, nor force teach it to them... they have their own play-style already.

If you dislike someone's gameplay, boot them or get on with those who do have it. But definitely don't punish the rest of us just because of your personal opinions towards play-style. And on top of that, keep your arse out of STS's Kool-Aid... they deserve it and I'm glad to pay for it.

[ocagrevy]

If you dont want to use elix. Host your own game and boot ppl who are using them. Or now that we have guild function make a guild of non stat boosting players only. Simple resoultion. I dont see reason to complain when you have the ability to have things the way you want them.......

[Cytokinesis]

Another idea: make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.

good idea! now it'll be a real "elite" dungeon :D

[Silentarrow]

Agreed with Mt. fang being elixr free!

Amount of plat spent on elixrs---- 0 :D
Amount of gold spent on elixrs--- 500,000g+ :)

[Register]

I really like this idea. Ill stay with a group with somebody that has an elixir but I wont be very happy. I usually dont even get to kill anything. Of course, ill probably buy the 7k elixir if its an established group.

But I dont think Mount Fang should be elixir free. I think 4x combo pots should be taken out. It was a well agreed thought that many people cannot buy their way through the game (eg: plat gear) but IMO 4x combo pots is just that in disguise. I like that STS is making money (I love STS!) but this is a little....out. Heck, i would even go for taking out 3x combo pots. Even those give massive boost.

Elixirs do ruin teamplay. What happened to party based mmo? Why are there now mages and archers running ahead of bears and obliterating everything? Because of 4/3x combo elixirs.

Some people are saying that the xp to cap is 100k. 25k if combo elixir'd all the way. I wouldnt even say 25k xp. Because there is also armor and damage.

Anyways, I really like how you brought this up, Thanks

Also, wanan do runs with me? I wont use any elixir other than 1.5 Combo :D

[Kalielle]

Thank you Nightarcher for opening the discussion on this! It's exactly how I feel and I wrote a post about it before, which I think got buried or maybe came too soon. Glad to see I wasn't alone. Some thoughts on what others said:

We should think about XP elixirs and booster elixirs separately because they have different effects and cause different problems.

I think XP elixirs are not that bad. I understand all the people who don't have that much time to level, and I don't blame them for using XP elixirs to reach 60. However I think the current 4X bonus is a bit much, especially with the 4X vs 1.5X difference between plat and gold elixirs. I'd like to see the max elixir be 2.5X or at most 3X like before, and to see the elixirs available for either gold or plat. That way the people who don't have time to level much or to farm for gold can buy elixirs with plat, but those who are hardcore and have saved up gold farming and grinding and yet have no plat will still have an equal chance to reach the elite level. Plat potters should be happy about this too, because the elite level will be worth nothing if when you reach it people tell you "oh I guess you must have spent a lot of money on it." Also 2 or 3X should be enough of a boost for even casual players to get to the non-elite cap by the end of the campaign, and as for the other cap - well it's elite for a reason. (Another solution to help the casual players would be to reduce the XP needed for the non-elite cap, which is getting pretty crazy for the casual high-levels, and increase the one needed for the level 61 cap. Let those who are hardcore get the grind.)

Stat boosting pots are what cause the real problem. I don't see how it can be possible to balance a game to account for the fact that in some teams everyone will have their stats increased several-fold. When AO3 first came out, as I recall the intent was to make the levels really hard so that people would have to grind the lower levels and gather gear before they even had a chance to defeat the later bosses. But what happened instead was that everyone started using 2X elixirs all the time, and all the bosses were defeated an hour into the campaign. I don't think we ever found out if the Overlord could be defeated without pots. (Remember, I'm talking pre-rebalance.)

The players who are the most hardcore and who would be most likely to spend a long time trying to defeat bosses, are also the ones most likely to use pots. But of course the game has to be balanced for the new players who are not wealthy or committed enough to use pots at all. So the levels become manageable for non-potters and really easy for the potted "hardcore". How backwards is that?

As for those who say "run your own runs without elixirs if you don't like them", let me say what everyone is thinking and no one wants to say out loud:

I don't play MMOs to prove to myself alone what I can do. I play them to show everyone else how awesome I am. :p

Now let me see how many of you can look inside their hearts and say honestly that the statement doesn't apply to you.

If I wanted to see the limits of what I can do alone, I'd be playing one of the many excellent and much more complex single-player games out there. I'm not looking for an MMO where I can quietly feel proud of myself while some noobs who don't know how to play and bought their way to the top are showing off their level 61s in fancy gear and telling me how leet they are. I want a game where skill is rewarded. Remember rush farming where one death would cause the entire team to fail? And Frozen Nightmares at 45 when you couldn't use potions? And Rush farming Bayou Boss Brawl at 45 before the rebalance (we used to die left and right)? And farming the AO3 boss level, where those who didn't know how to time and alternate their buffs wouldn't even make it through the portal? And Shadow Caves before it was nerfed and people stopped farming it since the gear became worthless? Let's have some of that back please. Let's make skill count again in the game.

I agree with all the others - make the next map free of stat-boosting elixirs.

[Register]

Wow neat thoughts, Kayyyleeealllll(?)

i agree with all of it...except that last little bit...im just a little on the no side of that...But some good pursauading will change my mind :D

[flyingscv]

First of all, I am too cheap to buy elixirs, ESP the plat ones! Are they ruining the game? Hell no. The devs have gotta earn their money somehow, and it is not as ifyou can't conolete any map without resorting to one. If others pot up and choose to charge ahead, I say let them. Plenty still die when they stray too far from the rest.

IMO a lot of people are just whining because others advance faster using elixirs. Just suck it up. You DON'T have to keep up with the Jones EVERY TIME.

[krazii]

Great post Kallielle, this game has become more of a profit machine now instead of the sweet little innocent game it used to be. Natural as STS get's bigger and expands. Miss the old days of AO2 and AO3, even then with the elixirs you needed good strategy.

As for the game itself. Mt. Fang will never be elixir free, STS has to gotta make there money and if this expansion is any indicator, they are gonna make a ton. Now an option to have elixir free games is a great idea. Elixirs are great for people who don't have as much time to play as other, but wanna keep up with current crowd. I don't think they are ruining the game, but I do feel bad about not using one if members of my group are. Things are slowing down as usual though, less elixir use and lower prices. In a week or two this will be an after thought, especially when new SL update comes out. Use of elixir is up to the individual and I don't think it makes the "established" players any less effective in non-elixir games.

[Moogerfooger]

Elixirs do ruin teamplay. What happened to party based mmo? Why are there now mages and archers running ahead of bears and obliterating everything? Because of 4/3x combo elixirs.


Not a true statement, sorry. Some mages and archers have ALWAYS played like this, with no combo elixirs. Go play a run with Physiologic, Rosettes, WhoIsThis, just for starters...mages and archers that are always up front dealing damage. Bears often waste time trying to kill single enemies instead of trying to lead the party, seen it dozens of times (not bashing bears, just some). Your statement is a broad stereotype that is not true in all instances.

[StompArtist]

Not a true statement, sorry. Some mages and archers have ALWAYS played like this, with no combo elixirs. Go play a run with Physiologic, Rosettes, WhoIsThis, just for starters...mages and archers that are always up front dealing damage. Bears often waste time trying to kill single enemies instead of trying to lead the party, seen it dozens of times (not bashing bears, just some). Your statement is a broad stereotype that is not true in all instances.

I completely agree. Front line birds have even been the cause of several threads about bears feeling useless in the past.

[Nightarcher]

I don't see how it can be possible to balance a game to account for the fact that in some teams everyone will have their stats increased several-fold. When AO3 first came out... ...everyone started using 2X elixirs all the time, and all the bosses were defeated an hour into the campaign. I don't think we ever found out if the Overlord could be defeated without pots. (Remember, I'm talking pre-rebalance.)

---

As for those who say "run your own runs without elixirs if you don't like them", let me say what everyone is thinking and no one wants to say out loud:

I don't play MMOs to prove to myself alone what I can do. I play them to show everyone else how awesome I am. :p

Well said Kallielle; you are truly an exceptionally well-spoken person. :)

Many people play PL for recognition, but how good is said fame if it's no longer a challenge? I do not play for myself, I play for myself within the community. I don't want PL to be a divided "every man for himself" game, but one which it used to be where dedicated players worked together to discover how to defeat new and difficult bosses, while surviving because of teamwork.


Now, it's just a mad dash to level up and make money. With 2 potted people, you can farm Nuri's Madness and with a little luck, get rich. I miss the perilous-rushing days of AO2, and the epic-boss days of AO3. :(

[StevenKoh]

I'm in for a non-elixir run =)

Count me in! Slowly, but Surely, we will make it to the Elite 61s!

Eskaytree - lvl57 Pure Int Mage / Eskaythree - lvl57 Pure Dex Mage / Eskaythreee - lvl57 Pure Str Mage / Hitmeifyoucan - lvl56 Dual Spec Mage / Ilovetoloveu - lvl56 Tanker


There r group that still run without elixir. Join me anytime for a non elixir run. Cheers!

Btw, i dun oppose elixir!

[Kossi]

Its not happening bro, as long as STS is makin money, all is well.

[apocketlegend]

Kossi areyou still in Aeo?

[csb]

I rarely ever see a level completion button now that elixirs are so popular. I can understand getting the most from your money, but now all i see is skip... skip... rmk. All mini-bosses and side paths are skipped, and when all the easy kills along the main path are dead, its time to re-make.

I think that if we could buy 1000 xp for 10 plat, there would be a forum thread discussing which is more cost effective: using elixirs vs buying xp.

[Slush]

4x and plat only elixirs ruined the game, plain and simple. I mean, who the hell even buys 1.5x... I wouldn't be surprised if devs released a 5x elixir...

[Register]

4x and plat only elixirs ruined the game, plain and simple. I mean, who the hell even buys 1.5x... I wouldn't be surprised if devs released a 5x elixir...

Ahem...me? Lol I buy a ton every day XD It doesnt give me insane tanking/massive dps powers but its a nice boost :)

[Gluttony]

4x and plat only elixirs ruined the game, plain and simple. I mean, who the hell even buys 1.5x... I wouldn't be surprised if devs released a 5x elixir...

I buy 1.5 elixirs if I have a steady team which usually consists of 4 combo users and me running up the rear. I buy them because they only cost me virtual money and not a thin red cent from my own personal pocket. You can rest assured that I a 5x elix was projected to make STS money, then it would be introduced in the subsequent patch. Think of how the 4x xp elix was introduced; teasers for the new campaign were leaked, hints of the cap increase followed, then suddenly a new challenger appeared (4x xp elixir).

[wvhills]

I definitely think elixirs have lessened the game. It's no fun for me to run behind players who are potted and just blast their way through levels. It takes all the challenge and excitement out of the game.

Here's another thought- A few months ago the devs brought GCD to the game. At the time they said the primary reason for this was to make the game more strategy based instead of "button mashing". They said they wanted players to become more skillful in when to use skills and in what order and to foster teamwork.

If that's the vision they have for PL then how do 3x and 4x elixirs foster that? I think the devs have lost their way. Somewhere along the way it became more about making money than providing a fun game to play. I don't think there's any question that elixirs are the major source of revenue right now and I personally feel that more money is being spent on the game right now than any other time before. Because of this I don't see elixirs ever going to way. I mean, which one of us would voluntarily give ourselves a pay cut?

I don't play as much as I used to just because I like feeling part of the group and I don't when I'm running with players who are potted, I feel like a leech. I'll pop in and search for a non potted game and if I find one then I play but if not I log out then try again later.

[Duped]

Personally, I've never spent plat on an elixir, I pride myself on not needing to use them, but at the end of the day, I ALSO don't use them because my wife would likely attempt to kill me if I spent hundreds of dollars playing this game (she just doesn't understand, what can I say :p ). I've never been booted for not using elixirs, but I also either host my games or I play with friends who are hosting them. Playing PUG's just gets too discouraging frequently (of course there are diamonds in the rough).

Ive found if you play well, you get friends who play well. Stick with them, and you can still enjoy the pride of awesomeness (like my pride at being a key member of THE best 51 farming group of all time) and with a good group, you'll still run thru levels at Nuri, and enjoy the challenge. I don't like everything about elixirs, but I also understand that they are the business model of STS, and I'm guessing from all appearances, that they are enjoying the greatest success of their history because of them, so we who don't use them have to accept it or move on I'm afraid. I for one, have chosen to accept it :) I hope you do too.

[pastrychef]

Here's another thought- A few months ago the devs brought GCD to the game. At the time they said the primary reason for this was to make the game more strategy based instead of "button mashing". They said they wanted players to become more skillful in when to use skills and in what order and to foster teamwork.

I button mash more than ever because they don't register correctly after the GCD implementation. They also said, eventually, we will wonder how we ever lived without GCD. I still don't feel it... I long for the pre-GCD days.

Yes, I agree entirely with your view that the 3x and 4x are counter productive in their desire to foster more skilled players and teamwork. Combined with the diminished game play of GCD and it just isn't what it once was.

[pastrychef]

I rarely ever see a level completion button now that elixirs are so popular. I can understand getting the most from your money, but now all i see is skip... skip... rmk. All mini-bosses and side paths are skipped, and when all the easy kills along the main path are dead, its time to re-make.

To be fair, I often skip mini bosses when farming too. They take too long to kill and offer junk drops. Why waste time.


I think that if we could buy 1000 xp for 10 plat, there would be a forum thread discussing which is more cost effective: using elixirs vs buying xp.

lmao