Rogue Buff

[Lunarpvp]

Rogues Could Possibly chance to gain an invulnerability for 2 seconds as DODGE increases.
EX: Level 46 Rogue: 40% Dodge =40% Chance to Gain invulnerability= 4 seconds

Level 50 Rogue: 56% Dodge=56% Chance= 6 seconds
ETC. Hope you get my point.:wink:

[yubaraj]

Rogues Could Possibly chance to gain an invulnerability for 2 seconds as DODGE increases.
EX: Level 46 Rogue: 40% Dodge =40% Chance to Gain invulnerability= 4 seconds

Level 50 Rogue: 56% Dodge=56% Chance= 6 seconds
ETC. Hope you get my point.:wink:

I hope you get your buff. Good luck.

[Lunarpvp]

Lol me too, mages have a shield, tanks have jugg, we deserve something more...dont we?

[Vrazicak]

4 seconds invulnerability= 4 combos= rip mage
6 seconds invulnerability= 6 combos= rip 2 mages

[Lunarpvp]

no no no no... look

Hey! Arloriarns!

Today I was wondering why in endgame mages are so strong, so I decided to do a little experiment taking my little mage " Evernes " as evidence ( I started a new mage), actually my level mage is level 35, so I decided to using a map according to my mage's level ( Final map Shuyal ) , using the wolf as test.


Damage Test ( NO SHIELD )

154051



Damage Test ( SHIELD ON )

154052

This is an average percentage after several tests , since the damage to the wolf was variable but the average is "140" and damage with shield active is "45", that is around 95 Damage less from same attack


Ok, after this, let's see why Arcane Shield it's that strong compared to Juggernaut.




Shield's First Upgrade ( 55% Damage Reduction )

154053



Shield's Second Upgrade ( 15% Damage Reduction ADDED )

154054



Shield's Mastery ( 15% Damage Reduction ADDED AGAIN )

154055


Using the shield with all updates and others, this shield can absorb a huge amount of damage in PvP , one of the main reasons why mages are so strong in PvP even against warriors, about 70 % of wolf's damage was absorbed by the shield, now this must be added that the shield is mainly based on STR and INT , and my gear is composed of Assault and Force mainly, in endgame all mages have a huge amount of STR and INT , that makes it very durable against any class.


A great suggestion could be this One (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?368594-Requesting-the-return-of-PvP-Updates-Proposed-Balance-Changes-(7-21-16))

MAGES SHIELD: Lasts for about 15 seconds according to that... I thought it was 7 lol, anyways a second difference in the mages favor isnt bad....tryna even it out

[Vrazicak]

okay let me explain it to your blind eyes, rogue combo does 50% damage with shield on if rogue crits at aimed shot, and in possibly the best situation mage can crit like 2k on nekro shield rogue, considering all that, your whole freaken combo is cooled down after 2 seconds while mage needs to wait 3 seconds just for bolt, and 4 for fireball.

[Lunarpvp]

Enough time for you to sufficiently crit and kill.

[Vrazicak]

how is 3k dmg per 4 seconds good? if you do 9k dmg per 4 seconds

[Lunarpvp]

Im not great with statistics...wanna see someone more knowledgeable talk about this. (NO offense)

[Vrazicak]

Not offended at all I know this post is just trolling anyway, rogues are still way op

[Plqgue]

no no no no... look

MAGES SHIELD: Lasts for about 15 seconds according to that... I thought it was 7 lol, anyways a second difference in the mages favor isnt bad....tryna even it out

We only have two seconds of invulnerability .... You're asking for almost ten seconds of no damage to a rogue

[justhell]

Lol me too, mages have a shield, tanks have jugg, we deserve something more...dont we?
Lol me too, rogues have a stacking crit and a crit buff, tanks have dmg and crit buff, we (mages) deserve something more...dont we?

Btw the only class don't have offensive active buff is mages fyi.

[Fredystern]

Well how about mage got invulnerable for each 1k mana? What do you think? OP mage? Well OP rog too if sts buff rogue for each 10dodge = 1s invulnerable :/ please think of pvp balance before posting

[Lunarpvp]

We only have two seconds of invulnerability .... You're asking for almost ten seconds of no damage to a rogue

6 seconds 10 is like fighting a tank...anyway i see the flaws in this thank you

[Zeus]

Rogues shouldn't have invulnerability - only some damage reduction.

[Sweetsatured]

Rogues already got a lot crit, damage, dps, dodge, health, armor, mana...
Still want more?

Enviado de meu LG-E425f usando Tapatalk

[Iulian Ardelean]

Rogues already got a lot crit, damage, dps, dodge, health, armor, mana...
Still want more?

Enviado de meu LG-E425f usando Tapatalk
Yes because our stats are not enough good in pvp , warriors die very hard.

Sent from my Onyx_QS using Tapatalk

[Alwarez]

Rogues already got a lot crit, damage, dps, dodge, health, armor, mana...
Still want more?

Enviado de meu LG-E425f usando Tapatalk

Health? Armor? Really? Hahaha

[Sweetsatured]

Health? Armor? Really? Hahaha
Yeah, what about OP rogues with 6k+ hp and 2k+ armor? Also rogues got the fastest cooldown skills in the game

Byby...

[Zeus]

Yeah, what about OP rogues with 6k+ hp and 2k+ armor? Also rogues got the fastest cooldown skills in the game

Byby...

And OP mages have high stats too. The point is not gear, but the fact that there is an imbalance. Bye bye!

Sorcerers actually have higher HP than rogues, for your information. Rogues have the fastest cooldown skills in the game because they are the DPS class. As a result though, they cannot take more than 1-2 hits without dying.

[justhell]

Sorcerers actually have higher HP than rogues, for your information. Rogues have the fastest cooldown skills in the game because they are the DPS class. As a result though, they cannot take more than 1-2 hits without dying.

All of mages? Most of them? Or just few of them?

Is that mages u talkin bout pure int? Or what that rogs u talkin bout gears type? Most rogues I know prefer int as 2nd stat option rather than str.

Most rog I run with can hold 2-3 hit which is give them a time to kite and tap pot,they can do this all the time. Most mage can hold 0-1 hit without shield (in hard elite its no way mages shield can hold for 15 sec,about 3-10 sec maybe). For me ur statment sound like all Mages have better HP than all Rogues,which is false.

[Kingofninjas]

All of mages? Most of them? Or just few of them?

Is that mages u talkin bout pure int? Or what that rogs u talkin bout gears type? Most rogues I know prefer int as 2nd stat option rather than str.

Most rog I run with can hold 2-3 hit which is give them a time to kite and tap pot,they can do this all the time. Most mage can hold 0-1 hit without shield (in hard elite its no way mages shield can hold for 15 sec,about 3-10 sec maybe). For me ur statment sound like all Mages have better HP than all Rogues,which is false.

Equally geared, ALL MAGES have better health and damage than rogues. Give a rogue and mage the same gear (potency for rogue brutality for mage, int and str and secondary stats for rogue and mage respectively) and the mage will always have more hp and damage.

[justhell]

Equally geared, ALL MAGES have better health and damage than rogues. Give a rogue and mage the same gear (potency for rogue brutality for mage, int and str and secondary stats for rogue and mage respectively) and the mage will always have more hp and damage.

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.

[Gouiwaa9000]

Rouges are meant to be glass cannons , the class with the lowest hp and armor , but with the highest damage . If rouge will recive a buff , it must be a single-strike damage buff . Here you are asking for almost 6s on invicibility , enough time to combo 3 times and break mages shield/kill the mage . So whats gonna happen is mages shiled and wars judg will be broken before a decently geared rouge can take damage , giving a 100% chance win in a vs fight. Also , 6s in clash is enough to run trough the other team , combo once and run back , without loosing 1% of hp.

This is abit to op.

[Fredystern]

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.

In 41 cap most rogue took str as thier second stat after dex, but now they choosing int, idk why :/

[justhell]

In 41 cap most rogue took str as thier second stat after dex, but now they choosing int, idk why :/
Maybe bcoz they choose to having more mana for spaming skill,just maybe.

[Fredystern]

Maybe bcoz they choose to having more mana to spaming skill,just maybe.
I wonder why they need msna to spamming skill when they crying they didnt getting slot in clash cause of stacking mage :/ why not they just use str to make themself useful again so they didnt very paper, dont say rogue lack of mana, i was saying when there is a mage, didnt got slot cause of stacking mage right? So there was alot of mage right?

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[Safiras]

I wonder why they need msna to spamming skill when they crying they didnt getting slot in clash cause of stacking mage :/ why not they just use str to make themself useful again so they didnt very paper, dont say rogue lack of mana, i was saying when there is a mage, didnt got slot cause of stacking mage right? So there was alot of mage right?

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

Sorry but... have you played a rogue? Try to gear up a rogue first, play around with the stats then try to run around in PvP. With full brutality gear and no house buffs even with a pet that grants you int on happiness bonus you would end up with less than 2k mana. That would run out if 4 or 5 combos. In a full-on 4v4 or 5v5 with 2 tanks, that would run out Even before anyone's shield or jugg expired. Also, as a mage, wouldn't you be frustrated if this stupid rogue ran out of mana all the time, and you had to use your heal just for that rogue? Mages have to time their heal according to the whole team's mana and HP levels, not just that of the rogue. And if a rogue runs out of mana, she is a dead/useless rogue.

Also, int gives HP, mana and a small amount of base damage for rogues. Just looking at HP, 1 str point gives 10 HP while 1 int point gives 5 HP. From experience, 200-300 HP more does not make a significant difference to survival in PvP. Thus on balance, most rogues choose a predominantly dex/int set up for gear.

Mage stacks in PvP don't necessarily mean that the rogue gets infinite mana. We've all heard of mages telling people "we are not mana cows". Also, in mage stacks usually at least one mage drops heal for an additional attack skill because they expect the other mage(s) to heal.

Many assumptions, not many facts. I suggest you try to play a rogue first then see how it works out in PvP.

[Fredystern]

Sorry but... have you played a rogue? Try to gear up a rogue first, play around with the stats then try to run around in PvP. With full brutality gear and no house buffs even with a pet that grants you int on happiness bonus you would end up with less than 2k mana. That would run out if 4 or 5 combos. In a full-on 4v4 or 5v5 with 2 tanks, that would run out Even before anyone's shield or jugg expired. Also, as a mage, wouldn't you be frustrated if this stupid rogue ran out of mana all the time, and you had to use your heal just for that rogue? Mages have to time their heal according to the whole team's mana and HP levels, not just that of the rogue. And if a rogue runs out of mana, she is a dead/useless rogue.

Also, int gives HP, mana and a small amount of base damage for rogues. Just looking at HP, 1 str point gives 10 HP while 1 int point gives 5 HP. From experience, 200-300 HP more does not make a significant difference to survival in PvP. Thus on balance, most rogues choose a predominantly dex/int set up for gear.

Mage stacks in PvP don't necessarily mean that the rogue gets infinite mana. We've all heard of mages telling people "we are not mana cows". Also, in mage stacks usually at least one mage drops heal for an additional attack skill because they expect the other mage(s) to heal.

Many assumptions, not many facts. I suggest you try to play a rogue first then see how it works out in PvP.
If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

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[Zeus]

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.


Err, the point is about gears. You cannot compare an undergeared mage to an overgeared rogue and call it balance.


If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

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You're playing a twink rogue which has a damage buff in PvP. End game rogues have nothing of the sort. Sorcerers there also hit a lot less than they do at endgame.

[Breakingbadxx]

If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk
Twink rogues are very different from endgame rogues. Someone pointed out that at around lvl 15 twinking, rogues are unkillable in PvP to the point of a 4 rogue stack being impossible to beat by a 2 tank 2 mage team. A very different situation from endgame indeed, so I don't think twink PvP comparisons are that useful.

[Fredystern]

Twink rogues are very different from endgame rogues. Someone pointed out that at around lvl 15 twinking, rogues are unkillable in PvP to the point of a 4 rogue stack being impossible to beat by a 2 tank 2 mage team. A very different situation from endgame indeed, so I don't think twink PvP comparisons are that useful.
I know the difference between twink 15 and 56 was alot, but how about twink 48? It was nearly same with 56 in rogue aspect, but very different in mage and warr

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[Breakingbadxx]

At endgame, a geared rogue has a mana pool of around 2000 (around the same as a geared warrior). Compared to the mana pool of an "equally" geared mage of 6000+.

That 2000 mana will expire after using around 10 skills, which makes the dependance on hanging around with a mage even more. Therefore, INT will be necessary for this class if they wish to be more useful, not because they don't want more HP.

Furthermore, most mages choose to boost their INT and STR for the specific reason of the arcane shield becoming more powerful by doing so. Not necessarily because they desire HP more than rogues.

[Trenton]

I just don't get why rogues are so against the fact of using razor shield, unless it's just because it's no good. They have to give up a damage skill just like mages. I get that mages have always required a shield and that rogues would now have to get used to one "less skill," but if razor shield were to give 40%-45% damage reduction for 10-12 seconds and act like an arcane shield (minus the 2 seconds invulnerability), I'm thinking this would solve the problem of them dying like they do right now. I don't think it should be 55% like a mages' shield because rogues do deal more damage more quickly, but they need some kind of damage reduction to be able to live long enough to blast some damage and get out of the line of fire.

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[Zeus]

I just don't get why rogues are so against the fact of using razor shield, unless it's just because it's no good. They have to give up a damage skill just like mages. I get that mages have always required a shield and that rogues would now have to get used to one "less skill," but if razor shield were to give 40%-45% damage reduction for 10-12 seconds and act like an arcane shield (minus the 2 seconds invulnerability), I'm thinking this would solve the problem of them dying like they do right now. I don't think it should be 55% like a mages' shield because rogues do deal more damage more quickly, but they need some kind of damage reduction to be able to live long enough to blast some damage and get out of the line of fire.

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Right now it's because of the fact that in PvP you are only really using aimed and nox. If you use SP, you will die. If razor gets DR though, it makes SP viable to use without dying immediately so this could work.

[Imback Al]

Rogues against 3 mages in clash have no use. All the mages have to do is shield, cross tank, fireball lightning..rogues need either a major armor buff, or a major damage reduction buff. Otherwise 3 mages can just keep crushing rogue. Atm the only way for a rogue to kill 3 Mage is on cd. Die, rj, kill on cd

[Trenton]

Right now it's because of the fact that in PvP you are only really using aimed and nox. If you use SP, you will die. If razor gets DR though, it makes SP viable to use without dying immediately so this could work.
Sadly enough, I forgot about SP. However, with making razor shield get DR would you still want to use SP? And what would you sacrifice? Heal? Or are rogues REALLY not wanting razor shield to have the damage reduction?

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[Breakingbadxx]

Sadly enough, I forgot about SP. However, with making razor shield get DR would you still want to use SP? And what would you sacrifice? Heal? Or are rogues REALLY not wanting razor shield to have the damage reduction?

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Should we ask the many rogues that asked for or supported a request for a damage reduction buff to the razor shield?

[Trenton]

Should we ask the many rogues that asked for or supported a request for a damage reduction buff to the razor shield?
I get that, thank you for so sarcastically responding to a general question that was misguided by stating that rogues want to also use shadow piercer. Maybe a rogue should answer me, rather than you.

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[Sweetsatured]

And OP mages have high stats too. The point is not gear, but the fact that there is an imbalance. Bye bye!

Sorcerers actually have higher HP than rogues, for your information. Rogues have the fastest cooldown skills in the game because they are the DPS class. As a result though, they cannot take more than 1-2 hits without dying.
Ok, buff rogues then, give they invunerability, that will only make warriors more useless at PvE

[Zeus]

Sadly enough, I forgot about SP. However, with making razor shield get DR would you still want to use SP? And what would you sacrifice? Heal? Or are rogues REALLY not wanting razor shield to have the damage reduction?

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SP has to be in a rogue's arsenal for rejoin purposes. It's rarely used in clash because most times it will get you killed. It'll only be used if you've managed to section off a player and can kill said player without piercing into the battlefield and facing immediate death.

If razor shield got DR, I would still use SP because you need it to rejoin. A rogue would be sacrificing noxious bolt for razor. This is a heavy loss in damage but if the rogue can survive with a DR razor shield then it may make up for it.

[justhell]

At endgame, a geared rogue has a mana pool of around 2000 (around the same as a geared warrior). Compared to the mana pool of an "equally" geared mage of 6000+.

That 2000 mana will expire after using around 10 skills, which makes the dependance on hanging around with a mage even more. Therefore, INT will be necessary for this class if they wish to be more useful, not because they don't want more HP.

Furthermore, most mages choose to boost their INT and STR for the specific reason of the arcane shield becoming more powerful by doing so. Not necessarily because they desire HP more than rogues.
So that's mean mage choose str as 2nd stat bcoz they need it,and same as rogue they choose int as 2nd stat bcoz they need it. What's wrong with that?

[justhell]

Right now it's because of the fact that in PvP you are only really using aimed and nox. If you use SP, you will die. If razor gets DR though, it makes SP viable to use without dying immediately so this could work.
Well that's fine,but only if Razor have dmg absorb limit bfore it break down just like AS and Jugg.

[Breakingbadxx]

So that's mean mage choose str as 2nd stat bcoz they need it,and same as rogue they choose interest as 2nd stat bcoz they need it. What's wrong with that?
Did I mention that there was a problem with such?

I highlighted that for rogues, INT is mandatory for: the low base mana of the rogue class and the inability to supply mana by themselves like the other 2 classes.

Basically, rogues don't have a choice.

Mages boost INT and STR to make the arcane shield more powerful. The stats are not mandatory.

Mages have a choice.

[justhell]

Did I mention that there was a problem with such?

I highlighted that for rogues, INT is mandatory for: the low base mana of the rogue class and the inability to supply mana by themselves like the other 2 classes.

Basically, rogues don't have a choice.

Mages boost INT and STR to make the arcane shield more powerful. The stats are not mandatory.

Mages have a choice.

Say what about mage? That's just ur asumption,str also mandatory for : the low base of survivability and also for AS. Am I wrong?

[Breakingbadxx]

Say what about mage? That's just ur asumption,str also mandatory for : the low base of survivability and also for AS. Am I wrong?
Its more of a fact.

DEX supplies the rogue class with the damage they require. Therefore the AS skill is boosted by the main rogue stat.

Someone mentioned earlier that INT gives health as well as mana. While STR only supplies the health. INT would therefore be a wise choice.

As well as high health, survivability can also be judged on not being able to output enough damage to make you a threat as you run out of mana from using very few skills.

So, yes. You are wrong.

[justhell]

Its more of a fact.

DEX supplies the rogue class with the damage they require. Therefore the AS skill is boosted by the main rogue stat.

Someone mentioned earlier that INT gives health as well as mana.

So, yes. You are wrong.


And maybe u forget beside give dmg,dex also supplies crit and dodge for survivability.

Necesary or not its base on what player need it self,not other side opinion. So ur statment about str is not mandatory stat for mage is just ur asumption.

So I don't think I'm wrong. Sorry.

[Breakingbadxx]

And maybe u forget beside give dmg,dex also supplies crit and dodge for survivability.

Necesary or not its base on what player need it self,not other side opinion. So ur statment about str is not mandatory stat for mage is just ur asumption.

So I don't think I'm wrong. Sorry.
How effective is dodge in this game? It only works on auto attacks.

Even with crit, the rogue community are convinced they aren't enough of a threat. With valid reason.

I would rather not argue with you. I'm just putting some information on the table.

[Valkiryas]

And maybe u forget beside give dmg,dex also supplies crit and dodge for survivability.

Necesary or not its base on what player need it self,not other side opinion. So ur statment about str is not mandatory stat for mage is just ur asumption.

So I don't think I'm wrong. Sorry.

Not really, Dex grant barely some .0% critical and Dodge that's all, almost pointless unless you put lots of points on DEX for a mage, that would make weaker the shield and would make the mage's HP lower.

Instead a rogue need always a DEX stats for get an "Average Damage", INT because our skills make us like a Mana Burn Machine and STR because any class needs HP.

That being said a rogue needs a balance beetween INT, STR and DEX, everyone knows that DEX it's the useless for Mage and Warrior while rogue needs INT and STR as well ( DEX as main )

[justhell]

How effective is dodge in this game? It only works on auto attacks.

Even with crit, the rogue community are convinced they aren't enough of a threat.

I would rather not argue with you. I'm just putting some information on the table.
Then why not bring up about dodge issue? Bcoz all I know is,agile/crit type class always depend on dodge for survivability.

Also why not asking for mana pool buff? If u think its necesary.

Sorry,if there's any of my words sound bit rude.

[Breakingbadxx]

Then why not bring up about dodge issue? Bcoz all I know is,agile/crit type class always depend on dodge for survivability.

Also why not asking for mana pool buff? If u think its necesary.

Sorry,if there's any of my words sound bit rude.
I heard that dodge working as it does on other games ruined pocket legends PvP and since arcane legends is a development of pocket legends (if I remember correctly), then it seems logical that dodge works the way it does on this game.

Pointing out the mana pool was to help my explanation of the INT stat being more mandatory for rogues. Even if they wanted to get 10,000 health via STR, they would be left with near 0 mana.

Its ok mate, no hard feelings, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?

[Zeus]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?

That might help, would encourage rogues to put some strength in their builds. However, it still needs to be combined with something else. The reason is that while int increases mana, it also increases damage. So, if we are saving on int and can go with strength, then we are compromising some damage which is already a tough thing to let go of when you have a mage heal that heals better than a warrior heal. 3/4 fill rate + 5 ticks of 1K HP per tick is pretty hard to overcome. It's almost as if it's a mini juggernaut, except with guaranteed ticks for those 5 seconds.

[soon]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?



Remove the int as secondary will cause she loses damage?

[soon]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?



all weapons / gear (including arcane) today are based on the fact that rogues have int as secondary, removing it would cause rougues lost damage.

[Breakingbadxx]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?
Could you please give a slight example of how this may work if it were to be put in place? otherwise its hard to predict a potential effect.

[Niixed]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?

Hard to predict the outcome without more info, can you give us a better idea what you have in mind?

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Remove the int as secondary will cause she loses damage?

There is truth in that INT helps for damage, but the amount may be smaller than you might think.

I did a quick calculation using these values:
Rogue 1: 200 STR 700 DEX 400 INT.
HP from stats = ~6100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Rogue 2: 400 STR 700 DEX 200 INT.
HP from stats = ~7100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Using these values this 200 INT, after all formulas apply, comes out to about 95 damage on an uncharged Aimed Shot (~240 damage on an improved crit). This 95 or 240 damage difference does not scale with the damage of Aimed Shot, meaning if I add more DEX or more damage, the difference will still be 95 or 240 (the Rogues in my example would be firing an Aimed Shot doing ~5000+ damage). This means for these example Rogues, you can gain 1000 health while only losing ~240 damage off an Aimed Shot crit.

Right now of course Rogues cannot do this because 200 INT means 2000 mana and losing 2000 mana means you only get a few Aimed Shots before you have no mana left.

The thought here would be: What if Rogue skills only used 1/2 as much mana as they currently do?

[Breakingbadxx]

There is truth in that INT helps for damage, but the amount may be smaller than you might think.

I did a quick calculation using these values:
Rogue 1: 200 STR 700 DEX 400 INT.
HP from stats = ~6100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Rogue 2: 400 STR 700 DEX 200 INT.
HP from stats = ~7100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Using these values this 200 INT, after all formulas apply, comes out to about 95 damage on an uncharged Aimed Shot (~240 damage on an improved crit). This 95 or 240 damage difference does not scale with the damage of Aimed Shot, meaning if I add more DEX or more damage, the difference will still be 95 or 240 (the Rogues in my example would be firing an Aimed Shot doing ~5000+ damage). This means for these example Rogues, you can gain 1000 health while only losing ~240 damage off an Aimed Shot crit.

Right now of course Rogues cannot do this because 200 INT means 2000 mana and losing 2000 mana means you only get a few Aimed Shots before you have no mana left.

The thought here would be: What if Rogue skills only used 1/2 as much mana as they currently do?
This would break the [warrior > rogue] section of rock, paper, scissors balance.

Being a class with high skill damage (the highest in the game) and very low cooldowns (the fastest in the game) makes the handicap of a low mana pool appropriate.

We should focus on making the factor of rogue high skill damage a threat again. As of now, the only current viable use of this factor is in a rogue vs rogue scenario. It may help in a rogue vs mage scenario, but it doesn't guarantee the rogue will win. Being a dps class currently is more of a title. I still question the [rogue > mage] section of the rock, paper, scissors balance.

[Zeus]

There is truth in that INT helps for damage, but the amount may be smaller than you might think.

I did a quick calculation using these values:
Rogue 1: 200 STR 700 DEX 400 INT.
HP from stats = ~6100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Rogue 2: 400 STR 700 DEX 200 INT.
HP from stats = ~7100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Using these values this 200 INT, after all formulas apply, comes out to about 95 damage on an uncharged Aimed Shot (~240 damage on an improved crit). This 95 or 240 damage difference does not scale with the damage of Aimed Shot, meaning if I add more DEX or more damage, the difference will still be 95 or 240 (the Rogues in my example would be firing an Aimed Shot doing ~5000+ damage). This means for these example Rogues, you can gain 1000 health while only losing ~240 damage off an Aimed Shot crit.

Right now of course Rogues cannot do this because 200 INT means 2000 mana and losing 2000 mana means you only get a few Aimed Shots before you have no mana left.

The thought here would be: What if Rogue skills only used 1/2 as much mana as they currently do?

1/2 would sound good then if your formulas are correct. Let's see if it can improve survivability by encouraging rogues to dump extra points into str.

The only thing is that rogues get their int from gear so this would mean a full out swap for all PvP rogues to brutality based gear. Correct?

If so, realistically a rogue can only take out 50-60 points in the build without majorly hurting his damage because after the str deduction, then you have things you cannot take str out of like the arcane ring.

[Niixed]

There is truth in that INT helps for damage, but the amount may be smaller than you might think.

I did a quick calculation using these values:
Rogue 1: 200 STR 700 DEX 400 INT.
HP from stats = ~6100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Rogue 2: 400 STR 700 DEX 200 INT.
HP from stats = ~7100.
Equipped Weapon: Immortal Corruption Bow
Ability used: Aimed Shot, uncharged

Using these values this 200 INT, after all formulas apply, comes out to about 95 damage on an uncharged Aimed Shot (~240 damage on an improved crit). This 95 or 240 damage difference does not scale with the damage of Aimed Shot, meaning if I add more DEX or more damage, the difference will still be 95 or 240 (the Rogues in my example would be firing an Aimed Shot doing ~5000+ damage). This means for these example Rogues, you can gain 1000 health while only losing ~240 damage off an Aimed Shot crit.

Right now of course Rogues cannot do this because 200 INT means 2000 mana and losing 2000 mana means you only get a few Aimed Shots before you have no mana left.

The thought here would be: What if Rogue skills only used 1/2 as much mana as they currently do?

Ah I can see the direction. 1/2 seems drastic, though. Maybe 3/4 or 2/3 the current cost? The mana handicap is a vital part of the balance equation imo.

[Zeus]

Never mind, I just checked, there's no brutality version of the best damage gear. So any HP additions would come directly at the cost of dexterity which thereby greatly reduces our damage output.

The only thing this would do is help those rogues who do not know how to use skills wisely or help out in a Korruption based fight.


Ah I can see the direction. 1/2 seems drastic, though. Maybe 3/4 or 2/3 the current cost? The mana handicap is a vital part of the balance equation imo.

It doesn't matter what the reduction amount at this stage is though because you cannot take out the int points since they're attributed to the gear.

Therefore, the points are coming directly from dexterity and would heavily negatively impact a rogue's performance.

[Niixed]

1/2 would sound good then if your formulas are correct. Let's see if it can improve survivability by encouraging rogues to dump extra points into str.

The only thing is that rogues get their int from gear so this would mean a full out swap for all PvP rogues to brutality based gear. Correct?

If so, realistically a rogue can only take out 50-60 points in the build without majorly hurting his damage because after the str deduction, then you have things you cannot take str out of like the arcane ring.

Good point that Rogues mostly use gear to acquire intelligence, not actually putting many points into the INT stat.

[Zeus]

Good point that Rogues mostly use gear to acquire intelligence, not actually putting many points into the INT stat.

Yep, so this wouldn't be a solution. At first I thought it was, then I had an "Oh wait..." moment when considering all variables of this theory. Damn, thought it was a done deal. :(

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

Yep, so this wouldn't be a solution. At first I thought it was, then I had an "Oh wait..." moment when considering all variables of this theory. Damn, thought it was a done deal. :(

and if gear happened to appear allowing Rogues to better choose where they get their INT vs STR from? *shifty eyes*

[Niixed]

and if gear happened to appear allowing Rogues to better choose where they get their INT vs STR from? *shifty eyes*
Gear with stats that can be altered? Those are very big shifty eyes! That would be revolutionary for the game, giving players some freedom to choose the stats on our gear would be amazing.

[zerofort]

What obviously he was talking about coming out with new gear that choose str over int.

[Niixed]

What obviously he was talking about coming out with new gear that choose str over int.
Obviously.

/11

[Zeus]

and if gear happened to appear allowing Rogues to better choose where they get their INT vs STR from? *shifty eyes*

It would be awesome, but would it be just armor and helm? When factoring in already using slaying amulet, this would be an increase of about 400 HP. 400 HP, while great isn't really going to solve the difference. I was thinking...what if on top of this y'all strengthen the HoT heal of packs? That way if I know I'm going to lose my stun immunity, I can drop packs and eat them. If someone stuns me in this time, I have some heal from the packs to help carry me through to next Nekro shield.


Here are my stats:
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a485/htrap_2294/747A73C5-38BE-45AE-926C-F807E8DCB0F3_zpsjuhw4wlm.png (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/htrap_2294/media/747A73C5-38BE-45AE-926C-F807E8DCB0F3_zpsjuhw4wlm.png.html)

Now, with planar pendant I can get the increases in HP you are talking about. From what I've seen, that alone wasn't enough to help overcome a rogue's inherent disadvantage in clash. So, this is why I think a little bit more would be needed. However, we are getting there if this reduced mana burn is implemented.

[yubaraj]

I am glad that rogues are getting a buff. Reduced mana. Less pot consumption. Pve rogues happy.

But have you guys ever thought what will happen to twink brackets and 1 vs scenario?

I am hoping for good not another chaos.

[Zeus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but from this post I don't get a feeling of "heavily negatively impact" on rogues performance.

I replied a bit late, my bad. I was posting while being stuck in traffic. I believe I posted an updated comment after that.

[reiewaun]

Indeed mana is kinda low atm, I got everything on rogue gear and one or two abilities more than needed we run out of Mana on mage vses for example, rogues die easier on their vses, we already know that and wars just almost impossible to kill with or without mana on huge amount which will eventually sooner or later will run out and then it's death...... Anyway in short some mana usage reduction would be a great start since on my aspect as full geared I am missing a bit of Mana and a bit of armor.
NOTHING SO HUGE.... So the other classes don't complain and make 10 pages of drama

[justhell]

Hey everyone,

A fairly decent discussion has come up from this thread so I wanted to pose a question to you all:

What if Rogues became less reliant on INT as a secondary stat?
That would be nice especially when u said bout reduce mana consumption.

But there's also an issue bout survivability for rogue. Agile/crit class used to be rely on dodge for survivability,curently most rogue think that dodge not good enough for survivability.

If u guys can find a way to make dodge have more role on rogue survivability that maybe can be a solution. Agile/crit type class are hard to hit not hard to die,it can be right it can be wrong just share my opinion base on my experience playing rpg/adventure games.

[Lunarpvp]

Yeah, but lets say a tank already has 8-9.5k health and then they use korr.....rip