View Full Version : Increasing the range of ranged rogue skills
Breakingbadxx
08-16-2016, 05:55 PM
Just a thought that popped in my mind which I felt I should share.
As rogues are to be kept 'glass', wouldn't it be good to give them the ability to keep a considerable distance (more than that of other classes) from the frontline while still being able to attack?
I believe the range rogues currently have forces them to stay too close to the front lines, which can account for problems with their survivability in PvE and PvP when taking their 'glass' nature into account.
I think increasing the range of ranged rogue skills could help.
What do you guys think?
That is true, and it shouldn't affect vs.
Our most powerful skill is the same range as the skill that gets us killed. If aimed shot was suddenly 16MM, it would probably make a considerable difference.
Suentous PO
08-16-2016, 07:06 PM
Glass out of the enemies range is unbreakable hehehh
Glass out of the enemies range is unbreakable hehehh
Well, they have to come in at some point to get heals. Or the glass runs out of mana. It's also not like rooms are endless. They have a finite amount of space so one could only run back for so long.
Just a thought that popped in my mind which I felt I should share.
As rogues are to be kept 'glass', wouldn't it be good to give them the ability to keep a considerable distance (more than that of other classes) from the frontline while still being able to attack?
I believe the range rogues currently have forces them to stay too close to the front lines, which can account for problems with their survivability in PvE and PvP when taking their 'glass' nature into account.
I think increasing the range of ranged rogue skills could help.
What do you guys think?
That was one of the things I had thought, but I'm afraid that it makes the veno set be op. Getting hit the enemy at a distance that he can not fight back.
That was one of the things I had thought, but I'm afraid that it makes the veno set be op. Getting hit the enemy at a distance that he can not fight back.
Venom set runs out of mana so quickly that I do not know any rogue who would be sane enough to use it full time.
Blank119
08-16-2016, 07:53 PM
I disagree on this , it will make venom set op, as a rouge i think increasing the reduction of razor shield will increase our survivablity, like 1.5%-2% reduction per skill upgrade in razor shield,.
Zulgath
08-16-2016, 08:11 PM
Game changer
I disagree on this , it will make venom set op, as a rouge i think increasing the reduction of razor shield will increase our survivablity, like 1.5%-2% reduction per skill upgrade in razor shield,.
1.5% is not enough, that would mean 15% damage reduction which is only a mild 5% increase over the current mastery. Damage Reduction need to be about 25%.
Blank119
08-17-2016, 01:58 AM
1.5% is not enough, that would mean 15% damage reduction which is only a mild 5% increase over the current mastery. Damage Reduction need to be about 25%.
maybe, 2-2.5% per mastery wil do good :)
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 04:02 AM
maybe, 2-2.5% per mastery wil do good :)
As good as it sounds, its very unlikely the developers will increase rogue survivability via damage reduction because it potentially removes that 'glass' aspect. If the developers really wanted to buff the damage reduction of the razor shield, they would have hinted something on those lines by now, but so far these were their suggestions/changes:
*increase noxus bolt damage.
*increase the duration of razor shield by 3 seconds.
Aren't bows meant to be used from a distance? :)
resurrected
08-17-2016, 04:22 AM
As good as it sounds, its very unlikely the developers will increase rogue survivability via damage reduction because it potentially removes that 'glass' aspect. If the developers really wanted to buff the damage reduction of the razor shield, they would have hinted something on those lines by now, but so far these were their suggestions/changes:
*increase noxus bolt damage.
*increase the duration of razor shield by 3 seconds.
Aren't bows meant to be used from a distance? :)
Believe me or not but razor shield 25% damage reduction won't be so OP as juggernaut and arcane shield. However it can make difference in survivability of rogue so they are at least useful vs mages and tanks in clash. Best weapons for rogue at the moment are daggers because they recover armor loss.
Zikovsky
08-17-2016, 04:47 AM
I don't understand, Rog still have the most single target dmg output but they don't want to be fragile. We can't get everything guys. PvP is about teamwork and u can survive and kill a lot if your team mate is focus to covering u the most dmg dealer. The big problem is most of ppl are greed to kill too and don't care about rog survival. My advice is u must choose ur team mate and opponent wisely and if u act like the game changer I believe ur team mate will sacrifice their life for you to winning the game. I don't mind if devs increase dmg reduced and attack range on PvE only but if we talk about PvP, I will say "BIG NO".
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 04:50 AM
Believe me or not but razor shield 25% damage reduction won't be so OP as juggernaut and arcane shield. However it can make difference in survivability of rogue so they are at least useful vs mages and tanks in clash. Best weapons for rogue at the moment are daggers because they recover armor loss.
The aimed shot and noxus bolt skill can be used with daggers. These skills shoot arrows via a bow.
resurrected
08-17-2016, 04:53 AM
The aimed shot and noxus bolt skill can be used with daggers. These skills shoot arrows via a bow.
Yeah but you didn't mentioned that :)
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 04:56 AM
I don't understand, Rog still have the most single target dmg output but they don't want to be fragile. We can't get everything guys. PvP is about teamwork and u can survive and kill a lot if your team mate is focus to covering u the most dmg dealer. The big problem is most of ppl are greed to kill too and don't care about rog survival. My advice is u must choose ur team mate and opponent wisely and if u act like the game changer I believe ur team mate will sacrifice their life for you to winning the game. I don't mind if devs increase dmg reduced and attack range on PvE only but if we talk about PvP, I will say "BIG NO".
Increasing the range of ranged rogue skills won't reduce their fragility. It just means they will no longer be forced to stay in the front lines of battle as they do now due to their currently short range.
They aren't mages and can't cast a 2 second invulnerability and 65% damage reduction shield when they feel threatened. They must also actually pick up their packs to get healed as they don't get an instant burst of heal when they want.
They need their distance to survive, just like any other bow (skill) wielding class in any mmorpg.
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 04:58 AM
Yeah but you didn't mentioned that :)
My apologies, I hope the reply was clear :)
Safiras
08-17-2016, 05:06 AM
Increasing the range of ranged rogue skills won't reduce their fragility. It just means they will no longer be forced to stay in the front lines of battle due to their currently short range.
They aren't mages and can't cast a 2 second invulnerability and 65% damage reduction shield when they feel threatened. They must also actually pick up their packs to get healed as they don't get an instant burst of heal when they want.
They need their distance to survive, just like any other bow (skill) wielding class in any mmorpg.
This change will take some getting used to if it's implemented. For instance mages will be forced to shield much earlier if they encounter a rogue while isolated. I would expect in the initial period that a lot of mages will get one-hit or one-comboed because they are not used to the extended range. Anyway sounds good in theory because then with 16mm range on arrow skills (and maybe bow autoattack?) we can use that added range better in provoking teams to Nekro/Shield/Jugg/Heal early with a lower risk of getting pulled by a tank's axe (also 16mm range). But we won't know how much of an effect it will have on overall gameplay till we get at least some sort of testing period.
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 05:36 AM
This change will take some getting used to if it's implemented. For instance mages will be forced to shield much earlier if they encounter a rogue while isolated. I would expect in the initial period that a lot of mages will get one-hit or one-comboed because they are not used to the extended range. Anyway sounds good in theory because then with 16mm range on arrow skills (and maybe bow autoattack?) we can use that added range better in provoking teams to Nekro/Shield/Jugg/Heal early with a lower risk of getting pulled by a tank's axe (also 16mm range). But we won't know how much of an effect it will have on overall gameplay till we get at least some sort of testing period.
Yes, it could take some getting used to.
It could also allow rogues to stay alive long enough to make their damage useful.
Fredystern
08-17-2016, 05:51 AM
Believe me or not but razor shield 25% damage reduction won't be so OP as juggernaut and arcane shield. However it can make difference in survivability of rogue so they are at least useful vs mages and tanks in clash. Best weapons for rogue at the moment are daggers because they recover armor loss.
Believe me or not 25% damage reduction on razor mastery will make rogue OP in vs a mages. And that longer range will make a mage very easily to die cause rogue will easier to combo a mages, that my point of view if using mages. Well if in warrior view thats not a big problem since warrs got medium health to survive from s rogue combo even in long range, but sure it will make warrior(s) bit hard to kill rogue, so it will be pull the rogue or die in rogue hand
resurrected
08-17-2016, 06:07 AM
Believe me or not 25% damage reduction on razor mastery will make rogue OP in vs a mages. And that longer range will make a mage very easily to die cause rogue will easier to combo a mages, that my point of view if using mages. Well if in warrior view thats not a big problem since warrs got medium health to survive from s rogue combo even in long range, but sure it will make warrior(s) bit hard to kill rogue, so it will be pull the rogue or die in rogue hand
It wont be OP but it will help survival rogue. None said that will be applied with longer range. I'm also mage and rogue, counting that my main is tank. And rogues definitely need at least 25% damage reduction. Also it will make huge damage loss cause you'll be able only to use 2 and not 3 attack skills. We talk here about upgrade mastery to 25% instead 10%. And not stacking them both.
Fredystern
08-17-2016, 06:10 AM
It wont be OP but it will help survival rogue. None said that will be applied with longer range. I'm also mage and rogue, counting that my main is tank. And rogues definitely need at least 25% damage reduction. Also it will make huge damage loss cause you'll be able only to use 2 and not 3 attack skills. We talk here about upgrade mastery to 25% instead 10%. And not stacking them both.
Well if my main was tank it will fine, but my main view was mage, most rogue combo only aim and pierce and that enough to take down a mage, well its still fine with rogue in my brackets, most mage still could defeat rogue in 1v1, but if the mastery applied than it will different
Note: that rogue in vs was using razor
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resurrected
08-17-2016, 06:15 AM
Well if my main was tank it will fine, but my main view was mage, most rogue combo only aim and pierce and that enough to take down a mage, well its still fine with rogue in my brackets, most mage still could defeat rogue in 1v1, but if the mastery applied than it will different
Note: that rogue in vs was using razor
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I was playing mage PVP till cap 46 came and yea its hard to kill rogue with razor but its well possible. I would like first to see this in test then talk about anything. From clash perspective there isn't another and better solution than this
Fredystern
08-17-2016, 06:17 AM
I was playing mage PVP till cap 46 came and yea its hard to kill rogue with razor but its well possible. I would like first to see this in test then talk about anything. From clash perspective there isn't another and better solution than this
Yep you're right thats very hard to kill rogue in 48, i agree with the test first bur remove the kdr :D cause ill duel with alot of rogue when the test day
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resurrected
08-17-2016, 06:17 AM
Yep you're right thats very hard to kill rogue in 48, i agree with the test first bur remove the kdr :D cause ill duel with alot of rogue when the test day
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Yes. Removal KDR is just must have to test things like that.
Zikovsky
08-17-2016, 08:21 AM
Increasing the range of ranged rogue skills won't reduce their fragility. It just means they will no longer be forced to stay in the front lines of battle as they do now due to their currently short range.
They aren't mages and can't cast a 2 second invulnerability and 65% damage reduction shield when they feel threatened. They must also actually pick up their packs to get healed as they don't get an instant burst of heal when they want.
They need their distance to survive, just like any other bow (skill) wielding class in any mmorpg.
What I mean this fragility is according to increase dmg reduced on skill razor mastery. But in range case scenario if devs increase the range of rog, in my opinion this will be unfair to mage perspective. Mage only have fireball and ice that have the same range with rog skill. This will make mage 2s invulnerability become useless against rog because he can't touch her but she can. And in team battle, rog must standing close to the range of war charged heal that can stop the dmg 3s to survive so the longer range won't increase the survivability in team clash. What makes mage survive from rog attack is just 2s invulnerable with 27 cooldown and 3s protective shield from war. Nekro shield, mage heal and 65% reduce dmg from mage shield is nothing against 2s cd rog skill combo.
yubaraj
08-17-2016, 08:54 AM
Increasing the range of ranged rogue skills won't reduce their fragility. It just means they will no longer be forced to stay in the front lines of battle as they do now due to their currently short range.
They aren't mages and can't cast a 2 second invulnerability and 65% damage reduction shield when they feel threatened. They must also actually pick up their packs to get healed as they don't get an instant burst of heal when they want.
They need their distance to survive, just like any other bow (skill) wielding class in any mmorpg.
Its true rogues aren't mages so their survival should not exceed as mages have.
I have to tell again that arcane shield doesn't grant 65% damage reduction. Charged shield provide 55%, also we cannot pop it all the the time as it has longer CD.
On the topic I agree that longer range may help rogues to survive. Its a nice idea as it doesn't break the glass aspect of rogues.
Also I am always supporting giving little more damage reduction to rogues in tdm/ctf map but not in duel arena as it may break the current duel balance we have.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 09:13 AM
If they increase range for rogue they have to for mages with gun as well both are ranged and it's not fair that nothing will be able to reach a rogue unless he/she comes in for a heal...
epicrrr
08-17-2016, 09:16 AM
and thus they have to increase other range attack too, thats the dilemma so might as well leave it
Venom set runs out of mana so quickly that I do not know any rogue who would be sane enough to use it full time.
I use venom set full time...oh..yea..erm..[emoji12]
I don't understand, Rog still have the most single target dmg output but they don't want to be fragile. We can't get everything guys. PvP is about teamwork and u can survive and kill a lot if your team mate is focus to covering u the most dmg dealer. The big problem is most of ppl are greed to kill too and don't care about rog survival. My advice is u must choose ur team mate and opponent wisely and if u act like the game changer I believe ur team mate will sacrifice their life for you to winning the game. I don't mind if devs increase dmg reduced and attack range on PvE only but if we talk about PvP, I will say "BIG NO".
1. She does not enough damage to eliminate a target before it heal or receive healing an ally. There is a great cycle of shield and healing.
2. When a rogue loses nekro shield can be eliminated quickly. Without the possibility of healing.
3. And the most logical not matter if I have damage and be glass. Because my target or his allies will hit back.
154237
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 09:58 AM
If they increase range for rogue they have to for mages with gun as well both are ranged and it's not fair that nothing will be able to reach a rogue unless he/she comes in for a heal...
Mages have guns in their possession, not snipers.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 10:01 AM
Mages have guns in their possession, not snipers.
And bows are now snipers? It's only fair if you increase range for one ranged class then you have to increase it for all ranged classes
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 10:02 AM
and thus they have to increase other range attack too, thats the dilemma so might as well leave it
My suggestion is to keep 'glass' as far as possible from the frontlines. Extending the range of the frontlines will only bring us back to square 1, thus rogues should have ranged attack skills with a longer range than any other class.
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 10:05 AM
And bows are now snipers? It's only fair if you increase range for one ranged class then you have to increase it for all ranged classes
If player A wanted their bow wielding class to have equal range to a mage, they would've chosen a mage.
Usually in MMOrpg's, archer classes have more maximum range than mage classes.
Additionally, a fireball can only fly so far before it burns out. Arrows don't burn out.
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 10:42 AM
Considering the main usable skills in the rogue skill tree are that of bow and arrow, I would say that the rogue class in AL is more like a ranger or archer class. I don't think 'rogue' fits this classes description.
What do you guys think?
Psychoism
08-17-2016, 11:29 AM
This is a good idea, But the range should be available only in PvE. Not PvP, It would be so critty and awchy if this works in PvP :banana:
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 12:54 PM
This is a good idea, But the range should be available only in PvE. Not PvP, It would be so critty and awchy if this works in PvP :banana:
The suggestion increases much needed survivability in both PvE and PvP without making the class 'tankier'.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 01:00 PM
The suggestion increases much needed survivability in both PvE and PvP without making the class 'tankier'.
And when nobody can attack a rogue because he's so far back what will happen to this so called balance?
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:03 PM
And when nobody can attack a rogue because he's so far back what will happen to this so called balance?
There seems to be no problem with mages currently shielding to rush and focus rogues alongside warriors at the current distance (which forces rogues to be too close to the frontlines). They will only be further back. :)
There seems to be no problem with mages currently shielding to rush and focus rogues alongside warriors at the current distance (which is too close to the frontlines). They will only be further back. :)
Exactly, it would just encourage sorcerers to use movement skills as well to reach their target. Warriors use SS + Axe to increase the range of axe.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 01:05 PM
There seems to be no problem with mages currently shielding to rush and focus rogues alongside warriors. They will only be further back. :)
If a mage rushes further and his shield breaks that's a dead mage everytime no matter how you look at it...this wouldn't work unless all ranged skills in game for every class are increased in range
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:10 PM
If a mage rushes further and his shield breaks that's a dead mage everytime no matter how you look at it...this wouldn't work unless all ranged skills in game for every class are increased in range
There will just have to be new rush tactics engineered towards the new range of the 'glass'. I admit, it'll take some getting used to but rogues currently need this. :)
Once again, the main rogue skills are bow and arrow based. That pretty much makes 'rogues' a ranger class. Should a mage have equivalent range to a Ranger?
If a mage rushes further and his shield breaks that's a dead mage everytime no matter how you look at it...this wouldn't work unless all ranged skills in game for every class are increased in range
Shield and Gale.
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:23 PM
Shield and Gale.
There you go, a new rush tactic engineered to the increased range of ranged rogue skills on the house. :)
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 01:24 PM
Shield and Gale.
So we have to give up quicker attack skill for gale hmm I don't think so gale is no good in pvp unless you're up close so you can stun. And charged gale would take you too far away from your tanks = dead mage making it impossible for a rogue to be killed because tanks won't be able to reach the rogue and mage will be dead by the time he reaches the rogue
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:29 PM
So we have to give up quicker attack skill for gale hmm I don't think so gale is no good in pvp unless you're up close so you can stun. And charged gale would take you too far away from your tanks = dead mage making it impossible for a rogue to be killed because tanks won't be able to reach the rogue and mage will be dead by the time he reaches the rogue
Mages will have to adapt.
As a warrior I can only use axe throw as an attacking skill in PvP because I have had to adapt to rogues on my team needing mana. I sacrificed hammer smash for vengeful blood and rely on the DPS on my team to kill.
Anyona
08-17-2016, 01:38 PM
Mages will have to adapt.
As a warrior I can only use axe throw as an attacking skill in PvP because I have had to adapt to rogues on my team needing mana. I sacrificed hammer smash for vengeful blood and rely on the DPS on my team to kill.
You're a tank, traditionally tanks are supposed to absorb damage and help the team sustain. Not kill everyone in their path.
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So we have to give up quicker attack skill for gale hmm I don't think so gale is no good in pvp unless you're up close so you can stun. And charged gale would take you too far away from your tanks = dead mage making it impossible for a rogue to be killed because tanks won't be able to reach the rogue and mage will be dead by the time he reaches the rogue
Well, sorcerers shouldn't be able to rush rogues and get away with it. Sorcerers are support first and damage second. If they can simply rush the rogue and make sure he dies then something is wrong.
Oh, and yes, I know how to play sorcerer. It's very easy and the fact that you can completely dismantle any rogues on the opposing side is a joke. :D
I think I need to start putting up YouTube videos as a sorcerer because nobody is really brave enough to admit it on forums.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 01:42 PM
Well, sorcerers shouldn't be able to rush rogues and get away with it. Sorcerers are support first and damage second. If they can simply rush the rogue and make sure he dies then something is wrong.
Oh, and yes, I know how to play sorcerer. It's very easy and the fact that you can completely dismantle any rogues on the opposing side is a joke. :D
I think I need to start putting up YouTube videos as a sorcerer because nobody is really brave enough to admit it on forums.
If multiple mages are rushing that's a dead rogue but if one mage rushes that rogue can kill that mage easily....
Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:44 PM
You're a tank, traditionally tanks are supposed to absorb damage and help the team sustain. Not kill everyone in their path.
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Traditionally mages are a support class so their presence shouldn't remove the need for the highest damage class in game.
Anyona
08-17-2016, 01:47 PM
Traditionally mages are a support class so their presence shouldn't remove the need for the highest damage class in game.
I've never played a game where mages were completely the "support" class you speak of. The problem lies with the rogue class, not the other two. This is a good suggestion but anyone with bad ping will suffer if this is implemented.
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Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 01:50 PM
I've never played a game where mages were completely the "support" class you speak of. The problem lies with the rogue class, not the other two. This is a good suggestion but anyone with bad ping will suffer if this is implemented.
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Anyone with bad ping normally suffers in PvP.
You can't have played all games. :)
If multiple mages are rushing that's a dead rogue but if one mage rushes that rogue can kill that mage easily....
And what do you think happens during a mage stack? There's nothing a rogue can do.
And no, a sorcerer can usually hold his own against a rogue. Especially if the sorcerer waits until the rogue nekro shield wears off...then the rogue is a one combo KO.
Anyona
08-17-2016, 01:57 PM
Anyone with bad ping normally suffers in PvP.
You can't have played all games. :)
Currently playing World of Warcraft which is one of the biggest MMORPG's, all 3 mage specs are damage types and offer no support features :)
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Breakingbadxx
08-17-2016, 02:03 PM
Currently playing World of Warcraft which is one of the biggest MMORPG's, all 3 mage specs are damage types and offer no support features :)
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One game. :)
I asked for your opinion on my suggestion btw.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 02:05 PM
And what do you think happens during a mage stack? There's nothing a rogue can do.
And no, a sorcerer can usually hold his own against a rogue. Especially if the sorcerer waits until the rogue nekro shield wears off...then the rogue is a one combo KO.
One rogue shouldn't be able to take out a stack of mages and if a mage is holding his own long enough to wait for nekro shield to wear off that rogue obviously isn't trying to kill the mage as its one combo and a aim to break shield and one more combo to kill
One rogue shouldn't be able to take out a stack of mages and if a mage is holding his own long enough to wait for nekro shield to wear off that rogue obviously isn't trying to kill the mage as its one combo and a aim to break shield and one more combo to kill
If you rush a mage as a rogue, especially during a mage stack to get him to shield, what will happen is your nekro shield will fade and then you will end up being stunned/slowed right in the middle of the combat room. Please, try killing a mage stack on your rogue. You have to be very very skilled, even if the sorcerers are very crappy. This shouldn't be the case at all.
And no, one rogue shouldn't be able to take out a stack of mages. However, a rogue should be able to live if his team is covering him. Yet, in a mage rush that's not the case. The fact is once Nekro fades, a sorcerer hits so hard (even if he's just alone) that there's no option for a rogue other then death.
Lets do this, shall we? I'll level and play my sorcerer, you play your rogue. I will stack sorcerers on my team and see what happens to your rogue. After that, we can swap you and add in another rogue that may be better geared and see what happens to that rogue. After that, we swap that rogue for another rogue as well. The outcome will be the same...every single time.
It doesn't matter who the rogue is or how skilled he is. Even a mediocre sorcerer can make a rogue useless in PvP team play. The fact is when warriors and sorcerers are together, the survivability is too damn high for DPS to overcome. What's the point of DPS if they cannot out damage the heals or even live to try to out damage the heals?
P.S: You can try rushing my sorcerer to get me to shield. You will see exactly what happens...and it isn't pretty for the rogue.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 02:43 PM
If you rush a mage as a rogue, especially during a mage stack to get him to shield, what will happen is your nekro shield will fade and then you will end up being stunned/slowed right in the middle of the combat room. Please, try killing a mage stack on your rogue. You have to be very very skilled, even if the sorcerers are very crappy.
I've killed many mages on my rogue but never tried a mage stack but I don't think I would try to kill 2+ mages at a time lol
I've killed many mages on my rogue but never tried a mage stack but I don't think I would try to kill 2+ mages at a time lol
So what do you think happens? You can't go up to force them to shield. If you do, your Nekro shield disappears 2 seconds later. Even if you pop razor, you lack survivability so the next lightning will hit you and you're dead. If you stay back, the sorcerers just wait till your Nekro shield is worn off then rush you. They WILL catch up to you because sorc shield ignores speed debuffs, so they're moving much faster than you are.
In fact, at the moment...mage stack is so efficient that it can overcome a warrior stack as well.
Again as I stated earlier one rogue shouldn't be able to kill off a stack of mages
It's not one rogue, it's one team against another team. One has a rogue, the other does not. When a balanced team of classes cannot win against a stacked team of classes, there is something very wrong. So, your point is pretty mute.
Nobody is asking or expecting one rogue to live in a 2v1 or 3v1.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 02:56 PM
So what do you think happens? You can't go up to force them to shield. If you do, your Nekro shield disappears 2 seconds later. Even if you pop razor, you lack survivability so the next lightning will hit you and you're dead. If you stay back, the sorcerers just wait till your Nekro shield is worn off then rush you. They WILL catch up to you because sorc shield ignores speed debuffs, so they're moving much faster than you are.
In fact, at the moment...mage stack is so efficient that it can overcome a warrior stack as well.
A tank stack is easy to beat if you know what you're doing...and as I've already stated one rogue shouldn't be able to kill a whole stack of mages
A tank stack is easy to beat if you know what you're doing...and as I've already stated one rogue shouldn't be able to kill a whole stack of mages
Nobody said anything about a rogue killing a whole stack of mages. A rogue should be able to survive in a clash though. That is not currently the case.
EDIT: Unless, you are saying that you want 2 mages 1 rogue to lose to a 3 Mage stack or a 1 Mage 1 Rogue lose to a 2 Mage stack. That, really, is preposterous.
Like I said, try it and be my guest. There are already sorcerers much much better than you admitting that it is an issue.
Plqgue
08-17-2016, 03:01 PM
It's not one rogue, it's one team against another team. One has a rogue, the other does not. When a balanced team of classes cannot win against a stacked team of classes, there is something very wrong. So, your point is pretty mute.
Nobody is asking or expecting one rogue to live in a 2v1 or 3v1.
You are tho you're stating a rogue can't survive a mage stack like its expected.... if three mages are aiming for one rogue that's a dead rogue no matter how many buffs they give . The whole problem in pvp is the class stacks are out of control . I'm positive a rogue with the same level of gear as a mage can take that mage out unless he's underskilled..
Kriticality
08-17-2016, 03:32 PM
The rogue needs a damage buff. For sure. If I see a rogue even with nekro shield and he's isolated I rush him instantly by myself. Yes this will skew the really op rogues in duel but it's the answer. I'm sure of it. I had a straight duel series with Zeus the other night. That's with no obstacles or teammates. That is rogues domain over sorcerers. I won't give the results of the duels but I was 100% sure after it that they need a damage buff. 100%. They shouldn't be able to one shot mages but I should have to consider my rushes against a rogue. Right now I don't. I only bring up Zeus bc he has comparable gear and jewels to me. He's also one of if not the best rogue in the game. The majority of rogue class that isn't as op is suffering even more than the geared ones. It's ridiculous.
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xxalivexx
08-17-2016, 06:11 PM
I agree, i dont think tanks should be able to axe us from the the range we get, because if the tank has stun in his axe and they proced lava pools its basically death for a rogue, as i experienced this many of times.
epicrrr
08-17-2016, 06:14 PM
I mostly play warrior now so yea..
Ive seen rog 1 shotting mage when shield nekto was off theres that window every clash where you can go for the mage. Likewise the mage can gun for you too with their op lightning (good thing it has a fix crit rate :banana:)
IMO its harder to play rogs now, but its ok to give other class their shining moment doesnt look that bad rog can still kill anybody. Fast.
Zynzyn
08-17-2016, 06:30 PM
I like the idea of emphasizing the Ranger role of the rogue.
Blank119
08-17-2016, 08:13 PM
the only weapon of a rouge is damage/crit ,we could 1hit or 2 hit anyone, but the problem is the 2 class have an immune skill to us, like jug, horn ,arc shield and heal , so high crit and dam is useless, and rouge is so paper compare to other 2 class, i think the best solution for this is make the razor shield 25%-30% to increase our survivability or change the mastery of aim shot to 1%-2% chance ,ability to break any shield per points.
Kriticality
08-17-2016, 08:29 PM
the only weapon of a rouge is damage/crit ,we could 1hit or 2 hit anyone, but the problem is the 2 class have an immune skill to us, like jug, horn ,arc shield and heal , so high crit and dam is useless, and rouge is so paper compare to other 2 class, i think the best solution for this is make the razor shield 25%-30% to increase our survivability or change the mastery of aim shot to 1%-2% chance ,ability to break any shield per points.
No, rogue is glass already. They are NOT cannons. They need prob 200 damage more. To that Mage that's countering everything yes theoretically rogues do more damage than any other class if the stars are aligned and nobody has horn or any other type of shield. But I'll tell you with 100% certainty that there is no rogue that won't get swapped if I'm there with 2 tanks and another Mage. There is no rogue that can make it competitive over any reasonable sample size. The team will either lose or swap the rogue. They are completely terrible right now. I'm referring to the good ones btw. The less geared or less experienced rogues have no place in pvp at all unless against other rogues.
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Exxotik
08-17-2016, 08:58 PM
Please don't hate me for stating my opinion but I think rogues at least need more range. Mages have a 2 second invincibility shield, yeah I know it only goes so far but its effective. Mages get an instant health and mana regen from their heal anytime they are low. Rogues need to pick up their heals individually. I've played every class there is to play ( level 56 mage,56 warrior, and I recently started a rogue now its lvl 47) I've seen most of the imbalances. PvP has become a mage-warrior fun fest. Not much room for a glass rogue. Mages lightning has an extreme damage output, easily vanquishing rogues in their sight. Mages have stuns, easy heals, arcane shield, rogues at least need range. People have mentioned imbalances about the new battlegrounds. ( Which I think is a stupendous feature good job on that stg but plat doesn't need to be a trade able feature it will lead to the possibly drastic drop in arcane eggs or other exclusive locked items. I like rogue because of the game style and movement. It suits what I like to do most. Anyways thanks for reading my reply :)
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Seoratrek
08-17-2016, 10:16 PM
Let's remember to keep the posting civil. Like Justg said in a similar thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?359949-PVP-Updates-Proposed-Balance-Changes-PART-2-(7-22-2016)&p=2546351&viewfull=1#post2546351), the developers have access to a large amount of data that the community doesn't and are the most neutral and unbiased when it comes to game play. We appreciate your feedback but let's avoid the bickering next time. Thanks!