Please introduce SL rarity to PL.

[Ellyidol]

For the upcoming Mt. Fang campaign, please introduce the rarity system of SL to PL. By rarity, I mean the drop rate and the scaling of how 'good' the gear is, as well as the looks.

I love how the gear is very valuable in SL, greens are quite satisfying, purples are happy, pinks would make someone ecstatic.

I know SL is a different game from PL, but I believe the rarity system would really work well in PL as well.

Thoughts?

[Trollee]

+ 1

The "legendary" pink lives up to its name in SL, not so much in PL imo.

[Ellyidol]

+ 1

The "legendary" pink lives up to its name in SL, not so much in PL imo.

The "legendary" Nuri Armors are the prime example.

There's really no point in non-pink Nuri gear too. I know a lot of players that went BS pinks to Nuri pinks only.

[Trollee]

The "legendary" Nuri Armors are the prime example.

There's really no point in non-pink Nuri gear too. I know a lot of players that went BS pinks to Nuri pinks only.

Exactly, well I just hope that Mt. Fang can compensate for this and introduce some ultra rare pinks akin to the Shadow Caves Shadow/Death/Hate sets but even rarer!

Edit: And cooler looking =p

[Gluttony]

I think PL is fine the way it is. I know that SL is gaining more momentum and the team seems to be doing everything right to make the game a great success. I'm not saying that PL is doomed, but I do hope that the games stay separate. The last few ideas that were carted over from SL didn't sit well with me (xp lock disabling kills, class specific items, code transferring which caused all items to show as enemies on map and NPCs to have health bars for a few seconds...), these ideas were basically implemented into a game that has already found its fan base. I know that there are players out there that enjoy both games but these games are like our children, we love them both but we secretly have our favorite. I personally hope that the devs stick to what has made PL a great game and SL will have a seperate idea department, and never the twain shall meet. If I ever want to play the same game with a new skin, I can always download a Storm8 mobile game.

[Ellyidol]

Lol Gluttony, you and your analogies :p

I feel the same way that both games should be kept separate, but the way I see it also is that PL has a very 'short' content lifespan because of the rarity + other factors (elixirs).

Probably one thing that they can think about, that's all :)

[Doubletime]

I actually think the devs were reacting to all the negative posts from BS by reintroducing the "non-rare" pinks in Nuri. Some many people posted repeatedly that they had played and farmed for days and weeks without a pink drop. There were constant complaints that the drop rates were just too low.

So the devs made a decision to go back to the AO3 version of drops with the non-rare pinks and the rare pinks in Nuri. And I was one of the people that went from BS set pinks to Nuri pinks. But even after farming for days on end and leveling a toon to 61 and two others to 60, I still have only ever gotten 2 glyph drops. As a result, none of my toons have full premium glyph sets yet. Yet all of them have good level 60 pink gear and can do well on the Nuri maps. So I still think PL has very rare drops. Prices for premium gear shows just how rare some of those glyphs are.

That being said, I do hope that Mt. Fang has to same kind of rare pinks that people got from the Shadow Caves (after the first day anyway when the drop rate was so high). But I am also sure they don't want to create a whole campaign that no one plays, which is what eventually happened to the Shadow Caves when the difficulty was so high and the drop rate for gold, trash drops, and pinks was so low. It cost a good bit to farm the caves with very little pay off most of the time. So the majority of players avoided it. Balancing drops to make the campaign both attractive to players and maintaining the elite status of the levels is something that is tough from the development standpoint.

[Ixillicus]

The pink drop rate is pretty low now compared to when Nuri's launched. But on the the other hand, there are a surprisingly large number of people farming nuri's so we're seeing a lot of drops because of straight-up farming/running. I think that the higher rates during the first weekend kinda flooded a lot of the market though.

[Ellyidol]

DT, I agree. These non-rare glyphs should have been purple, IMO. My sets are also only half farmed, the rest are traded/bought.

Ix, agree. I'm not sure why (not pointing the finger at anyone) the drop rates tend to be higher first then lowered rather than lower first then work to a balanced rate. Lesser 'damage' in the latter option, IMO.

[WoundedEagle]

Prices will be way inflated...

[krazii]

Just play SL more bro, you know you want to!!!!

[Cascade]

Yes! I dont care if anybody hates it...I LOVE the drop rate! Legendaries are actually legendary now! Dont you dare change the drop rate :)

[WhoIsThis]

I'm ambivalent on this one.

I do agree that the non-rare pinks should have been purples.

But I don't think that there should be super-duper rare goods in PL. It could have an unbalancing effect on PvP. While true that player skill and luck are the dominant factors, rather than equipment, equipment can have an effect, even if it is largely psychological.

As it stands, buying a top of the line pink set (glyph) is pretty pricey and many 60 players can't (or won't buy). I don't think anything more pricey is good for game balance in that regard. The question I have for you Ellyidol is, do you really want to see goods being sold for 5 million or more permanently?

[Ellyidol]

Hmm, I'm not asking or suggesting for immensely better rare gear though, just the uniqueness and actual rarity of pinks. From what I can tell, the description of greens alone is 'Rare', rare, but that's the minimum players use. Rare is actually overrated, but that's just a wording issue anyway.

To me, prices are just figures, IMO. They can cost that much to buy, but they can also sell as much, so the way I see it, either way is acceptable. Sure, these ultra-rare pinks will probably have a price tag of at least a couple of million, but that's when purple/green gear step in, or are supposed to step in.

Personally, my total gold/asset worth in PL is very highly positive since Nuri's because I never buy gear until I get the equivalent worth in price from other gear I get or if I actually loot one myself.

Idk, that's just one aspect I really liked about BS, all the green/orange/purples had very good value, maybe not scaled proportionately, but still very good.

[WhoIsThis]

I do agree that the Nuri "junk" drops need to be improved. I'm not sure - how much would you consider optimal for a set?

I see many players that level, get the end game pink set, and go back to their passion - pvp. Increasing the rarity of the sets really only needlessly increases the time that they need to spend farming. For PvE players, similar story, only they spend their time farming and making a lot of money afterwards, so things are easier for them.

To be honest, I think pinks should probably not hover more than say, 7-8 million a set once prices stabilize. That works out to 2-3 million a piece. Now remember, once they stabilize is the key. Recall that even the most expensive sets in Sewers (Nuri prices haven't stabilized yet, so we can't use that example), the custom recurve was around 3.5m (or thereabouts) once the "green" sparkle bonus was made and remained that way for quite a while; close to 3 months in fact.

Decreasing the drop rates more than that, seems a bit ... overdone? Some people think the glyph drop rate is perhaps 0.3%. Would you have it lowered to say, 0.1%?

Of course, it remains to be seen how "rare" the SL pinks are. Already somebody has managed to secure a full set. Time will tell if they are no more rare than the PL equals.

[Zaltiar]

+1 I like the current status of pink drops in nuris right now. When it first came out, I admit, it was raining pinks, everytime i got one, i was like meh, its not a obedience, bigtop or charmin. Now i havent had a good pink drop since....well ages. (Or it could be that I've been in less due to mid seems) But this actually makes them what they are. Amazingly hard to get legendary drops.
hopefully mt.fang will be similar, we'll just have to wait and see

[Ellyidol]

How much in price you mean? Or in terms of use?

Price, I'd say the same as when the AO3 premium pinks stabilized, was it roughly 1m for the entire set?

Use, maybe slightly lesser than what a premium pink set would offer. Look different too.

There's a pink set already in SL? 0.0 or was it a crafted set?

This is what I pictured, take the non-premium glyphs (Mimicry, BT, Nuri's) now and make them purple with the current drop rate of the premium glyphs. Then the current premium glyphs stay pink, give them that lower drop rate, but have that true legendary factor in them. It's too late to change now for Nuri's since the pinks have flooded in and the market is accustomed to pink being the minimum, but for Mt. Fang, maybe it's possible.

What would it do, if Legendaries (premium glyphs) were indeed that rare, the majority of the PL market would be very content with the purples (non-premium glyph). I would imagine that the purples would command the same price as the premium glyphs now (which are getting lower everyday) since they have the same drop rate.

Basically making the purple rarity the base for accepted sets rather than everyone just discarding anything less than a pink, eg. SL rarity.

It wouldn't make both games similar, IMO. It's just the drop rate/rarity, which exists in any mmorpg.

I do agree, that some players just PvE enough to level, get sets, then PvP, and some players just purely PvE, but won't SL type rarity just give more players to do in general? Everyone has to course through PvE anyway, while to cater to the pure PvP crowd would call for something else.

[WhoIsThis]

I do agree, that some players just PvE enough to level, get sets, then PvP, and some players just purely PvE, but won't SL type rarity just give more players to do in general? Everyone has to course through PvE anyway, while to cater to the pure PvP crowd would call for something else.

The problem is, it becomes more of an exercise in tediousness rather than something enjoyable.

Right now, things are already borderline. People often have to rely on elixirs just to perform decently in some cases. It is either time consuming or costs real money to level (especially for 61). It's not like the Sewers where the 83840 was doable without elixir ... the difficulty level is much harder here, which is why elixirs were marketed so heavily. Adjusting the drop rates down might be the thing that discourages people from playing altogether. A lot of people are already unhappy about how dependent they are on elixirs. Look at some of the posts. Some people are already expressing dissatisfaction.

A final problem is that if the drop rate is that low, players can become "instant multi-millionaries" on pure luck. It is already this way (especially for the level 60 caps), but much more so than before. Some degree of skill should be required.


Edit:

The only thing that I think should be allowed to be this rare are some super rare "pink vanities". They may look cool, but they will only offer 1 thing: 1 armor like any other vanity. There are players are willing to pay. But that is only because vanities don't affect (or significantly affect stats). Even then, I'm not sure that PL will become a better game because of rare vanities; farming for them again may just prove an exercise in tediousness that costs real money.

[Ellyidol]

True, that calls for another discussion on game mechanics though, IMO :)

I know that PL still stands to be a casual game, but isn't the current state of how the market is behaving too casual? Some pieces are still pricey now, like you said it's still unstable anyway, but given a month or so, prices must be quite low by then already. I don't know, but maybe STS' approach to fast content consumption is also fast content development?

[RedRyder]

Lol you're the man elly, but I'm sorry I disagree on lower drop rates in PL. I do agree that the nuri, mimicry, etc. Should be purples instead since the only purps we can get are from the quests, and the glyph premium stuf should stay the pinks. But seriously, if pinks were rarer than they already are then no one will want to play. I don't even wanna play anymore. I had to buy all my glyph crap and now I'm broke on 100k since I don't have time to farm enough.

This is supposed to be a pickup and play game, lowering the rates even more makes that impossible.
My guess is that mt fang will just be like shadow caves but with higher drop rates.
The drops probably won't be as good as glyph, but good enough to hold us out to farm glyph.

Everyone might be severely overestimating the quality of the drops of mt fang

[Ellyidol]

Ninja'd, Red :p

Hmm maybe I approached the wrong way. I don't agree on lowering drop rates per se either, not literally at least, but in terms of rarity scaling.

Take for example SL, I don't seem to be seeing or hearing of any complaints on the pink drop rate or availability there since players were 'taught' how to use non-pink gear, this gave the item rarities more headroom in terms of what is actually 'Rare' (Green) and 'Legendary' (Pink).

Personally, I just see this as a work towards gear, and not make the games too similar. However, if STS' intent was to differentiate both games though this system, then by all means I disagree with my own suggestion :)

[WhoIsThis]

Ellyidol, if history is any indication, it is very probable that the quality of Mount Fang drops could end up like comparing rift, void, and cosmos (the glyph equivalents) to the hate, sentinel, and shadow (the Fang drops).

If Mount Fang is vastly more difficult, I think that we will reach a breaking point where people don't want to play.

Edit:
As it stands, I think that players are already "working" towards their gear. Sets can cost millions and it's probable that those prices can stabilize (they have in the past). Getting millions in gold is a major undertaking for most players. Perhaps not for you, but for 99% of the population, it is.

To complete a set today is something to be proud of. My first set was Cyber and in a sense, I "worked" for it. Would you have a system where people need to collect 1,000 totems instead of 100 as an example? It seems pointless to me and as I said before, an exercise in tediousness that would discourage me from wanting to play.

[Ellyidol]

I wish making millions was easy for me, I only had 500k and a Custom Set when I started Nuri's.

Hmm, I can see your point, so your opinion is that the current PL rarity system is fine the way it is (excluding making non premium glyphs into purple)?

Nuri gear might be very reliant on what happens when Mt. Fang and crafting items comes out, which is what I'm trying to suggest for; Mt. Fang rarity should be like SL's in the sense that the rarity system is appropriately scaled.

[Riccits]

Drop rates are fine in PL. I cant get Glyphs anymore too and can only watch ppl getting them. Making them lower again would disappoint ppl too much, i would also go back to my "non luck" farm systems to make at least 100-200k a day instead of hoping in something...
Its too much non equality in drops when drops are too extreme rare

[Kingsyan]

IMO I actually think that lowering the drop rates for pinks is a good idea.

According to the rarity system is PL, "Lengendary" items are too common to be legendary.

Speaking from my own experience, I find that looting greens, purps, and pinks are way more common than looting the supposedly "Common" items (Whites/Grays).

Lowering the drop rates would make the game a lot more enjoyable in my perspective since there will be a lot more options as to mix and matching different peices of armour, which makes PVP a lot more interesting.

Ofcourse, personal skills are a major factor in PVP, but the different builds and armour also affects the outcome greatly.

For PVE, mix and matching armour would also provide more options to fit each player's playing styles.
Say you focus a lot on damage and spamming spells, organize a set for yourself that provides decent damage and mana regen.
If you are more of a team player, you would then decide upon peices of armours which increase your dodge, hp regen and armour to survive and buff/heal/help out your teamates.
Etc.


This would really bring in a lot more variety than the usual "pinks or gtfo" motto for PL.

[Ellyidol]

Drop rates are fine in PL. I cant get Glyphs anymore too and can only watch ppl getting them. Making them lower again would disappoint ppl too much, i would also go back to my "non luck" farm systems to make at least 100-200k a day instead of hoping in something...
Its too much non equality in drops when drops are too extreme rare

Agree, but the purpose of these proposed true Legendary pinks wouldn't be to make money, but to get that 'ultimate' set.

Let's say they did what I suggested a few posts back (non premium glyphs to purple with the current drop rate of premium glyph now), I would say that those new purples would still be a very profitable market, especially if almost all the players would want to have that purple set while trying to farm/get lucky with the new pinks.

This is just theoretical though, it's way too late to do it for Nuri. I'm looking more towards Mt. Fang. However, like what most have said throughout thread, since MF will probably be an elite version, then it'll probably much harder to come by.

I'm not for purely lowering the drop rates only. I'm also as interested in seeing appropriate scaling into the gear. Right now, anything below pink (in Nuri's at least) is almost useless to even consider using.

[Kingsyan]

I believe that a majority of PL players have a very wrong mindset towards "Legendary" pink items.

Pinks are taken for granted and they do not live up to the title of "Legendary".

It's just way too common.

[bronislav84]

I agree with Gluttony and Doubletime. Sorry, rest of you.

[Ellyidol]

Thread title should read,

"Please introduce SL scaling rarity to PL."

[McBain]

Something I wouldn't mind seeing to make items of all color a little more meaningful is decreasing drop rates in general. What I mean by that is the overall drop rate right now is 100% (when you open a chest or kill a boss, you always get something), and it probably shouldn't be. If you didn't automatically get an item every time, then the lowest color drop for that particular map wouldn't automatically be junk. Or less so, anyway. You could get gold/potions/etc from a chest/boss as usual, but not always an item. There should be two rolls, basically. First roll to determine whether or not you even get an item, then if that goes through, a second roll to determine the item.

I think this method would also be both easier and more effective to implement at this point, because it would affect items across the board and not specific colors or levels, thus restoring general item rarity grading at least a little back to normal.

[Duped]

I agree with DT, Red, Ricci, etc. I usually am right with Elly on things, but in this case not. SL is starting out probably alot like PL did. How many pink sets were there at level 25 before SSC? To my knowledge none, and the pinks (before wyldwood) were not common. When you consider the sheer volume of people who farm in NH every day, and look at prices, Id say they are doing the balancing act pretty well. Most complaints I have heard have to do with lack of good glyph drops that happen. I think its good just like it is. I also agree with Glutt about keeping them different. PL will always be my first love, and the more it becomes like SL, the less I love it :P

[Cahaun]

I believe that a majority of PL players have a very wrong mindset towards "Legendary" pink items.

Pinks are taken for granted and they do not live up to the title of "Legendary".

It's just way too common.
Isn't anyone reading this? Legendary should be legendary and rare should be rare (look it up in a dictionary).

[Cahaun]

The last few ideas that were carted over from SL didn't sit well with me (xp lock disabling kills, class specific items, code transferring which caused all items to show as enemies on map and NPCs to have health bars for a few seconds...)
(deleted for the sake of peace)

[Gluttony]

FALSE. Not all came from SL. Research twice, post once.

It says "the last few ideas" not all I even mentioned the few I was talking about. Why don't you try reading twice to get the facts straight then just post once so you can avoid the epic fail of a double post. First, learn to use the edit button, second learn to quote properly, third try to put me in my place when you've mastered some of the basics.

...or you could delete your last post and we could forget this ever happened. :p

[Cahaun]

FALSE. Not all came from SL. Research twice, post once.

It says "the last few ideas" not all I even mentioned the few I was talking about. Why don't you try reading twice to get the facts straight then just post once so you can avoid the epic fail of a double post. First, learn to use the edit button, second learn to quote properly, third try to put me in my place when you've mastered some of the basics.

...or you could delete your last post and we could forget this ever happened. :p
Not much of an epic fail, my quoting is fine, and I know the basics, but I do agree that this getting into a flame argument so lets froget this and talk about something else.

[Riccits]

Let's say they did what I suggested a few posts back (non premium glyphs to purple with the current drop rate of premium glyph now), I would say that those new purples would still be a very profitable market, especially if almost all the players would want to have that purple set while trying to farm/get lucky with the new pinks.


yes thos "trash" pinks should be rarer, but not like glyphs. so at least to get something usefull and not 100% trash when u not get glyph.

[WhoIsThis]

It would appear that SL sets are not as rare as implied in this thread.

Several people have already completed their sets in SL. Considering the time that it took when Nuri was introduced for the first people to complete their glyph sets, it's comparable.

[Ellyidol]

It would appear that SL sets are not as rare as implied in this thread.

Several people have already completed their sets in SL. Considering the time that it took when Nuri was introduced for the first people to complete their glyph sets, it's comparable.

I was under the impression that there would be pinks sets as well. If pinks were the basis of the sets, I think they'd still be absent now.

Curious as to why only one piece of armor per class has a pink version.

[WhoIsThis]

For each pink set, our guild now has at least one person with the full set.

[Ellyidol]

For each pink set, our guild now has at least one person with the full set.

Set? Or piece? AFAIK, there's only one pink armor piece per class. Crafted set though, yes it's becoming more available.

[WhoIsThis]

Set? Or piece? AFAIK, there's only one pink armor piece per class. Crafted set though, yes it's becoming more available.

Crafted set.

Either way, I don't think that the SL pinks are as rare as you are portraying them as. I think that by this time next month quite a few people will have at least one pink.

[NoobianOfAlterra]

Just pointing out my view but, you guys are all arguing about changing old prefixes/rarities. HOW ABOUT make new rarities? E.g. Ultimate or something and in some new color like Black :positive:

[arischal]

Just
pointing out my view but, you guys are all arguing about changing old prefixes/rarities. HOW ABOUT make new rarities? E.g. Ultimate or something and in some new color like Black :positive:

Yeah make a new set lvl 61 so people who already have a 60 set wont ask that drop rates be lowered once they have a full set. So the "elitists" have something new to find, and I can still hope for a charmin! Wand