The Truth About Mages & Mage Stacking

[Zeus]

As stated before, I went mage to prove some things that others are not exactly saying correctly. Please note, that in this video, I'm actually in a vs spec and not even clash spec. Therefore, my sorcerer is suffering from disadvantages like lack of mage extended range heal and limited AOE damage. However, despite this, sorcerer is still able to destroy a skilled rogue in clash.

I'll have more videos coming as I play more. I actually had more, but my SSD got full and some of the videos got corrupted in the process of making room.

Keep in mind, these are videos of seasoned players against my day old mage. It's not like they do not know how to play PvP.

VIDEOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fstURrBMqmU&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9jc0MDav0&feature=youtu.be

[resurrected]

Woot woot intro number 2 [emoji14]

[Valkiryas]

As stated before, I went mage to prove some things that others are not exactly saying correctly. Please note, that in this video, I'm actually in a vs spec and not even clash spec. Therefore, my sorcerer is suffering from disadvantages like lack of mage extended range heal and limited AOE damage. However, despite this, sorcerer is still able to destroy a skilled rogue in clash.

I'll have more videos coming as I play more. I actually had more, but my SSD got full and some of the videos got corrupted in the process of making room.

Keep in mind, these are videos of seasoned players against my day old mage. It's not like they do not know how to play PvP.

VIDEOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fstURrBMqmU&feature=youtu.be

I love the fact that mage's say that they're the weakest class when a Stack of mages can Kill a Stack of rogues or Warriors, I can't wait to show my videos with my mage :)

[Zeus]

I love the fact that mage's say that they're the weakest class when a Stack of mages can Kill a Stack of rogues or Warriors, I can't wait to show my videos with my mage :)

Yep, videos are solid proof that rogues need a serious buff. Even with cover, the rogue dies. It's simply not able to live despite doing all the right things like taking cover, getting healed. There may have been two occasions where he was able to kill me and that's only because I didn't have the second Mage alongside to kill the rogue. The truth is, since sorcerers ignore every single debuff in the book, including speed...there's no amount of room for a rogue that's enough (even when using speed set).

[Breakingbadxx]

Has anyone else experienced mage lightning auto-targetting the player with the lowest hp?

[Zeus]

Has anyone else experienced mage lightning auto-targetting the player with the lowest hp?

It targets the person closest to the sorcerer in my experience.

[Breakingbadxx]

Taking into account the fact that you just started playing the mage says a lot.

[Zeus]

Taking into account the fact that you just started playing the mage says a lot.

Yep, I don't even need to really try against any rogue tbh. Just stack warrior and Mage and the rogue is forced to leave the game to be replaced by a warrior or Mage.

I'll be posting more videos later. Wish I still had the few saved before (if only they didn't corrupt). The poor rogue got demolished for 7 games straight. Great footage.

The truth is if a sorcerer chooses to abandon the support role and go for the rogue alone (or even together with another sorcerer) as long as the combat scenario is fair (1v1 or 2v2 - in the event you rushed with another sorcerer) then it should be a serious mistake for a sorcerer to try that on a rogue.

As long as I have my heal and my shield, there's not really a rogue that's going to be able to kill me while my shield is up and his is down. That's what happens in clash. Sorcerer holds their shield, while rogues don't have a decent secondary damage reduction option. So, sorcerers exploit that and destroy the rogue in the 5-7 seconds before Nekro reshield.

[Saud]

I don't understand
You want a nerf for sorcerer or buff for rogue?
Or just show the community that the stack is op?
If that i am pretty sure you had said it before
I hope a dev just buff rogue and stop this drama.

[Zeus]

I don't understand
You want a nerf for sorcerer or buff for rogue?
Or just show the community that the stack is op?
If that i am pretty sure you had said it before
I hope a dev just buff rogue and stop this drama.

I want a buff for rogue. It's unbalanced to play like this. I don't have fun stacking classes and I'm sure rogues on the opposite side don't either.

Every class deserves to have a role in PvP, so give rogues one as well that isn't replaced by other classes.

It's not drama - I'm presenting facts.

[Anyona]

I feel like changing the auto attack damage of both bows and guns to 150% will certainly help Rogue's survivability. Also another idea would to have Aimed shot mastery to also have the chance to give 5% of the damage done back as health. Just a few ideas I have thought of. These changes will not make rogues feel identical as mages and will hopefully make them more unique and enhance their usefulness in a clash.

Edit: The damage difference between bow's and daggers should be looked at too.

[Niixed]

Whatever will convince devs to take this a little more seriously, gf Zeus. The individual player's perspective should be given equal weight to game statistics and community needs, imho.

I still believe the simplest and most logical way to help Rogues is to incrementally buff Rogue damage and armor 1% each per week until a good balance is achieved. If not 1%, how about 0.5%? 0.25%? Whatever would be risk-tolerant. If this type of fix is being disregarded because of a policy, I'd ask the team to please reconsider once more!

[Zeus]

I feel like changing the auto attack damage of both bows and guns to 150% will certainly help Rogue's survivability. Also another idea would to have Aimed shot mastery to also have the chance to give 5% of the damage done back as health. Just a few ideas I have thought of. These changes will not make rogues feel identical as mages and will hopefully make them more unique and enhance their usefulness in a clash.

Edit: The damage difference between bow's and daggers should be looked at too.

5% may be too little...I crit 3k or so on a mage, so that's that's like 150 HP. 10% may be better.

[Anyona]

Well I think if the auto attack damage is reduced then 5-10% hp return should be fine, especially with the hp return from shadow pierce + arcane amulet.

[Glass]

i heard in the past its rogue legends, rogue was op in the past, they were top in pvp
endgame geard mage could be crushed easily by not even endgame geard rogue.
Everybody say this as i heard
Did u argue like this that game is not balanced in the past too?
(if i know something wrong then i will apologize)

[Energizeric]

I guess I should start doing PvP again. I haven't much at all this season as I've been spending my time on elite APs mostly, and lately working on antignome set. Looks like I could have some fun farming rogues like I used to back in season 3-4 :)

[yubaraj]

Why so much hate on mages?

Don't forget about warrior stack too?

Why mages loose against rogue in vs?


I accept rogues are weakest in clash situation so they must only be buffed in tdm ctf not overall situation that's my request.

if rogues get buffed which break the rock paper scissor cycle then have fun warriors.

Ps I am never against buffing rogue in a clash or team match situation.

[Energizeric]

i heard in the past its rogue legends, rogue was op in the past, they were top in pvp
endgame geard mage could be crushed easily by not even endgame geard rogue.
Everybody say this as i heard
Did u argue like this that game is not balanced in the past too?
(if i know something wrong then i will apologize)

Yes, Zeus has always been very impartial when making suggestions and he has lobbied for Mage issues in the past such as fixing the Kershal and the buff to shield back a couple of years ago when mages were way underpowered.

[Energizeric]

Why so much hate on mages?

Don't forget about warrior stack too?

Why mages loose against rogue in vs?


I accept rogues are weakest in clash situation so they must only be buffed in tdm ctf not overall situation that's my request.

if rogues get buffed which break the rock paper scissor cycle then have fun warriors.

Ps I am never against buffing rogue in a clash or team match situation.

As has been discussed, it's very difficult to have balance in clashes and in duels by using the same set of rules. Mages deal overall more damage when you take AoE damage into consideration, but rogues deal more damage to a single target. So in a group fight, a Mage will be more powerful, but in a duel against a single player, a rogue will be more powerful because AoE damage is wasted on a single target.

So the solution to balance? Buff Mage in duels and buff rogues in TDM/CTF.

But first, you must make sure there is an overall balance to these irregularities. Then you can make those small adjustments. I think that is what STS is trying to do with some recent adjustments.

Since timed runs are a thing, and dungeons tend to have a mix of mobs and bosses, the perfect balance BEFORE buffs/nerfs in PvP is to make sure everything is balance in PvE, i.e. No one class can complete a timed run faster than another. In past seasons we saw rogues dominate the timed run leaderboards, while warriors were pretty useless. I haven't been keeping track of this, but hopefully this is no longer an issue.

[Vrazicak]

I love the fact that mage's say that they're the weakest class when a Stack of mages can Kill a Stack of rogues or Warriors, I can't wait to show my videos with my mage :)

Who ever freaken said mages were weakest class in pvp? We used to be weakest, now we're equal, if zeus could make a mage so can you. Actually forget about PvP do something about PvE farming community is suffering while rich people who open locks cry about PvP problems.

[Zeus]

Who ever freaken said mages were weakest class in pvp? We used to be weakest, now we're equal, if zeus could make a mage so can you. Actually forget about PvP do something about PvE farming community is suffering while rich people who open locks cry about PvP problems.

Sorcerers (you) aren't equal, when one class eliminates the need for another class, that isn't equality. Upcoming videos will prove this. You cannot deny this - this information is mainly for developers to see what happens to a rogue in clash.


Why so much hate on mages?

Don't forget about warrior stack too?

Why mages loose against rogue in vs?


I accept rogues are weakest in clash situation so they must only be buffed in tdm ctf not overall situation that's my request.

if rogues get buffed which break the rock paper scissor cycle then have fun warriors.

Ps I am never against buffing rogue in a clash or team match situation.

Hey Yub,

I don't hate mages. They're a fun and useful class. I'm just proving the point of how useless rogues are in clash. Warriors and sorcerers eliminate the need for rogue. Some sorcerers do not want to admit this and prevent rogue from getting the buffs they need, so I made a sorcerer to prove this. Video does not lie, so developers can see for themselves what happens in this situation.

As for warrior stack, it's very possible to beat a warrior stack using a team that is not 4 warriors. I will actually have a YT video going up tomorrow of how mages and sorcerers can work together to beat a team of warriors. The team wasn't a noob team either, but consisting of tanks: Ravagerx, Beatdowns, Youngwezzy, Pinchex. Yes, I agree with you that warrior stack is cheap. However, since class restriction is not a possibility, it is not worth complaining about especially since a well balanced team can overcome a warrior stack.

With that said, I do not want to break the 1v1 combat triangle either.

[Fredystern]

Whatever will convince devs to take this a little more seriously, gf Zeus. The individual player's perspective should be given equal weight to game statistics and community needs, imho.

I still believe the simplest and most logical way to help Rogues is to incrementally buff Rogue damage and armor 1% each per week until a good balance is achieved. If not 1%, how about 0.5%? 0.25%? Whatever would be risk-tolerant. If this type of fix is being disregarded because of a policy, I'd ask the team to please reconsider once more!

Only armor not damage anymore, rogue already hit so hard

[Vrazicak]

Sorcerers (you) aren't equal, when one class eliminates the need for another class, that isn't equality. Upcoming videos will prove this. You cannot deny this - this information is mainly for developers to see what happens to a rogue in clash.



Hey Yub,

I don't hate mages. They're a fun and useful class. I'm just proving the point of how useless rogues are in clash. Warriors and sorcerers eliminate the need for rogue. Some sorcerers do not want to admit this and prevent rogue from getting the buffs they need, so I made a sorcerer to prove this. Video does not lie, so developers can see for themselves what happens in this situation.

As for warrior stack, it's very possible to beat a warrior stack using a team that is not 4 warriors. I will actually have a YT video going up tomorrow of how mages and sorcerers can work together to beat a team of warriors. The team wasn't a noob team either, but consisting of tanks: Ravagerx, Beatdowns, Youngwezzy, Pinchex. Yes, I agree with you that warrior stack is cheap. However, since class restriction is not a possibility, it is not worth complaining about especially since a well balanced team can overcome a warrior stack.

With that said, I do not want to break the 1v1 combat triangle either.

I personally use all 3 chars and my main is rogue, so no I'm not a crying mage who doesn't want rogues to rule over in clashes again.
However there is too much attention directed to PvP, no one talks about PvE anymore, STS needs to forget about PvP for a while and focus on making PvE useful and worth our time.

[Zeus]

I personally use all 3 chars and my main is rogue, so no I'm not a crying mage who doesn't want rogues to rule over in clashes again.
However there is too much attention directed to PvP, no one talks about PvE anymore, STS needs to forget about PvP for a while and focus on making PvE useful and worth our time.

I think someone posted something similar to this and developers stated PvE content is coming and PvP changes/attention has not hindered that.

Anyways, new video up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9jc0MDav0&feature=youtu.be

[Safiras]

I personally use all 3 chars and my main is rogue, so no I'm not a crying mage who doesn't want rogues to rule over in clashes again.
However there is too much attention directed to PvP, no one talks about PvE anymore, STS needs to forget about PvP for a while and focus on making PvE useful and worth our time.

I agree that PvE issues are a major problem in the game now especially with regards to farming. I would like to see them addressed as a priority. However this should not deter others from giving their views as well as evidence on PvP imbalance. Whether or not one issue deserves priority over another, I will leave it to the devs. They've heard enough from us in my opinion to decide which issue needs to be fixed first *COUGH*fixfarmingpronto*COUGH*

@Zeus, quite compelling evidence in the videos. The team you faced contained quite seasoned players. But would like to see what comes next in the line of small incremental buffs to rogues that STS wants to roll out.

[Zeus]

I agree that PvE issues are a major problem in the game now especially with regards to farming. I would like to see them addressed as a priority. However this should not deter others from giving their views as well as evidence on PvP imbalance. Whether or not one issue deserves priority over another, I will leave it to the devs. They've heard enough from us in my opinion to decide which issue needs to be fixed first *COUGH*fixfarmingpronto*COUGH*

@Zeus, quite compelling evidence in the videos. The team you faced contained quite seasoned players. But would like to see what comes next in the line of small incremental buffs to rogues that STS wants to roll out.

Yep, I would like to see too but I figured that developers don't really have any real videos of what's going on in game. It's just hearsay and forum posts. I'll keep posting every time I encounter a 2 mage 2 tank clash against a mage tank and rogue clash. So far, I haven't lost one of those types of clashes.

[markseven]

How about just buff the razor shield of rouge putting damage reduction (not only in mastery) and it will be base on their dex and also let them have invulnerability for 2sec when cast.. warriors have 3sec and mage have 2sec so it will be fair.. all class now have their own shield.

[resurrected]

How about just buff the razor shield of rouge putting damage reduction (not only in mastery) and it will be base on their dex and also let them have invulnerability for 2sec when cast.. warriors have 3sec and mage have 2sec so it will be fair.. all class now have their own shield.
That was the idea but seems STG rejected it.

[Kingofninjas]

How about just buff the razor shield of rouge putting damage reduction (not only in mastery) and it will be base on their dex and also let them have invulnerability for 2sec when cast.. warriors have 3sec and mage have 2sec so it will be fair.. all class now have their own shield.

Lol why would you want to make rogues mages? Isn't that what created this whole balance issue. No to invulnerability of any form to rogues. And tanks don't have individual invulnerability. Their horn shields the whole team.

[Kingofninjas]

I think someone posted something similar to this and developers stated PvE content is coming and PvP changes/attention has not hindered that.

Anyways, new video up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9jc0MDav0&feature=youtu.be

I completely agree that rogues need a buff, no arguments there.

But, I don't think that a video of an organised team against a team like that is compelling evidence. For starters the mage in that video (officialmagic) had no idea what he was doing. No covering rogue, didn't even bother trying to aim enemy dps.

Once again, not saying the result would be any different against a better team, but it wouldn't be such an overwhelming loss (0 deaths). Rogues still have a window to get a few kills in if they rejoin fast enough.

[Zeus]

I completely agree that rogues need a buff, no arguments there.

But, I don't think that a video of an organised team against a team like that is compelling evidence. For starters the mage in that video (officialmagic) had no idea what he was doing. No covering rogue, didn't even bother trying to aim enemy dps.

Once again, not saying the result would be any different against a better team, but it wouldn't be such an overwhelming loss (0 deaths). Rogues still have a window to get a few kills in if they rejoin fast enough.

Yes, nobody disagrees with that. I included this one as a comparison. First video, rogue had cover yet still got farmed. In the second video, there was no cover and it was absolutely brutal.

I want a varied video portfolio so developers can see that it doesn't matter the situation, the outcome is the same. The only thing that changes is how bad the outcome is.

Again, if I've insulted anyone by posting videos with them in it. That's not my intention and I make that perfectly clear in my videos. So sorry to anyone who feels like I am!

[epicrrr]

Im pretty sure there are a good number of unheard rog names at endgame or team which can break a mage/tank stack.

[Zulgath]

Why r mages saying they lose to rogue? Skilled mage can win skilled rogue in vs.

Odesláno z mého GT-I9505 pomocí Tapatalk

[Caerama]

really? then why rogue was always top since season4

[Kakashis]

Rogue with 0 shield = GG in pvp. It's always been the case. It's been getting worse. Mages can pretty much have constant shield.

[Gouiwaa9000]

It targets the person closest to the sorcerer in my experience.
Its weird how it works , sometimes it hits closest target , but sometimes the one with lowest hp in range. I often die from a random lighting when im low on hp , even when im hiding behind the tanks.

[Gouiwaa9000]

Maybe giving atleast 2.5% damage reduction per point to razor will help rouges? It wont ruin vs because it will be -1 attack skill , but might provide the survivability you need to survive a clash. With the recent buffs to its duration it will provide decent protection against damage and movement impacting debuffs.

[everyonesnoob]

lets agree on that mages are way too OP in both vs and clash these days

[yubaraj]

Why r mages saying they lose to rogue? Skilled mage can win skilled rogue in vs.

Odesláno z mého GT-I9505 pomocí Tapatalk

Hmm interesting. I agree to disagree on this.

Mage may win if rogue doesn't dodge their auto attacks. But I have seen dodge on top of their head most of the time. Or Maybe that mage was using lifegiver mastery when it was glitched lol.

Yea I am a noob mage.

[Fsuryo]

Who ever freaken said mages were weakest class in pvp? We used to be weakest, now we're equal, if zeus could make a mage so can you. Actually forget about PvP do something about PvE farming community is suffering while rich people who open locks cry about PvP problems.
I love you dude..

[Zulgath]

Hmm interesting. I agree to disagree on this.

Mage may win if rogue doesn't dodge their auto attacks. But I have seen dodge on top of their head most of the time. Or Maybe that mage was using lifegiver mastery when it was glitched lol.

Yea I am a noob mage.
Nah u dont even know how powerful curse is even if rog doesnt use dot skills.

[Plqgue]

Why r mages saying they lose to rogue? Skilled mage can win skilled rogue in vs.

Odesláno z mého GT-I9505 pomocí Tapatalk

And skilled rogue can beat skilled mage all about skills vs is fine the way it is clash is what's wrong lol

[Zulgath]

And skilled rogue can beat skilled mage all about skills vs is fine the way it is clash is what's wrong lol
Skilled rogue cant beat skilled mage :)
*if mage knows his class well

[Ssneakykills]

Wish they would scrap pvp because people are never satisfied and will always ask for a buff or nerf.

[Eatdamage]

"Forum adept" title, well earned.

[Plqgue]

Skilled rogue cant beat skilled mage :)
*if mage knows his class well

And mages are the ones supposedly lying to make their class seem weaker than it is lol

[Zulgath]

And mages are the ones supposedly lying to make their class seem weaker than it is lol
I said, skilled mage*
If u dont win rogue, u r not skilled enough .-. I know exactly how to win me if i was mage.

[Zeus]

Im pretty sure there are a good number of unheard rog names at endgame or team which can break a mage/tank stack.

No, not really. Do you even play end game...?

[Safiras]

Im pretty sure there are a good number of unheard rog names at endgame or team which can break a mage/tank stack.

I've broken tank and mage stacks because the opposing players played poorly and were not organized. But an organized team of skilled mages and tanks will farm an opposing team with even one rogue in it because that rogue ultimately is the weak link, no matter how skilled.

[yubaraj]

I said, skilled mage*
If u dont win rogue, u r not skilled enough .-. I know exactly how to win me if i was mage.

Are you making a mage too? Anyways waiting to see how you kill yourself . please post a video I am curious and dying to see it.

[Zulgath]

Are you making a mage too? Anyways waiting to see how you kill yourself . please post a video I am curious and dying to see it.
Curse light heal shield sns - gg.

[Psychoism]

I'm a sorc. Only using arc deary (Stanlee AA) using brut gun 56/arc ring also. Sometimes i can defeat rogues, And Sometimes losing on rogues. Any tips? Hihihi

[Eatdamage]

If you are talking about OP it's forum legend and nott adept :P yeah, legend (facepalm x.x) dude literally spent 30mil around gold on a new char just to backup his points about pvp.

[epicrrr]

No, not really. Do you even play end game...?

yes, tank mage rog

[yubaraj]

Curse light heal shield sns - gg.

Tbh if you don't use SP mage won't be able to curse you. Duration of curse is not that long. Even if you get cursed if you decide not to attack, curse is useless.

Yes rogues will loose if they spam their attacks. And I won't call them skilled rogue.

[Zulgath]

Tbh if you don't use SP mage won't be able to curse you. Duration of curse is not that long. Even if you get cursed if you decide not to attack, curse is useless.

Yes rogues will loose if they spam their attacks. And I won't call them skilled rogue.
If i decide to not attack i am dead lol

[Breakingbadxx]

yes, tank mage rog
Its called luck. If you disagree, we can arrange a 2tank 2mage clash vs your team (you or anyone else as a rogue).

[Zeus]

yes, tank mage rog

And participate in clash? What's your IGN?

[Valkiryas]

And participate in clash? What's your IGN?

I'm wondering about it's IGN I want to duel with his rogue.

[Suentous PO]

yeah, legend (facepalm x.x) dude literally spent 30mil around gold on a new char just to backup his points about pvp.

If that's true then some may appreciate that he's spent that amount working on the goal of game balance.
So dispite that I'm completely bored of pvp arguement threads- thx

Ps- this isnt a fanboy comment lel

[epicrrr]

And participate in clash? What's your IGN?

Yes earlier just fought 1 warrior 2 mage 1 rog, and rogues still relevant, ill try and get a vid soon.

IGN - nah 56 not my world so its better not knowing.

[Zeus]

Yes earlier just fought 1 warrior 2 mage 1 rog, and rogues still relevant, ill try and get a vid soon.

IGN - nah 56 not my world so its better not knowing.

Sure, lets set up a team and see what happens to rogue. One or two instances is nothing, especially when you admit that L56 is "not your world".

[Twerk]

As stated before, I went mage to prove some things that others are not exactly saying correctly. Please note, that in this video, I'm actually in a vs spec and not even clash spec. Therefore, my sorcerer is suffering from disadvantages like lack of mage extended range heal and limited AOE damage. However, despite this, sorcerer is still able to destroy a skilled rogue in clash.

I'll have more videos coming as I play more. I actually had more, but my SSD got full and some of the videos got corrupted in the process of making room.

Keep in mind, these are videos of seasoned players against my day old mage. It's not like they do not know how to play PvP.

VIDEOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fstURrBMqmU&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9jc0MDav0&feature=youtu.be


Yea, I could barely kill you or Yawn there. Thing is I couldn't get through so many shields and pulls while I have only first heal shield and my own timed nekro to do something. Fact,I was swapping sets but it wasnt enough tho. Mage is just annoying.

[Zeus]

Yea, I could barely kill you or Yawn there. Thing is I couldn't get through so many shields and pulls while I have only first heal shield and my own timed nekro to do something. Fact,I was swapping sets but it wasnt enough tho. Mage is just annoying.

Exactly my point. Rogue needs to be worked on. It's really a joke of how easy it is to stack mage and tanks just to win.


yeah, legend (facepalm x.x) dude literally spent 30mil around gold on a new char just to backup his points about pvp.

Haha, I just got frustrated because people aren't saying the truth. I'll be constantly bringing videos highlighting this problem until something is done about it.

[Twerk]

Mage currently is just about to rush me with shield and spam ice, fb or light lol. I was getting insane amount of crit shots from light even with nekro shield. In fact I could kill you (happened few times only) but first had to survive over 25 seconds of instant damage. Pretty sad, isn't it.

[Zeus]

Mage currently is just about to rush me with shield and spam ice, fb or light lol. I was getting insane amount of crit shots from light even with nekro shield. In fact I could kill you (happened few times only) but first had to survive over 25 seconds of instant damage. Pretty sad, isn't it.

Yes, and most of the time that happened was because team wasn't coordinated. You coordinate and wait, a rogue stands no chance. I really feel the pain of any rogue that cannot afford to switch classes.

[Valkiryas]

Yes earlier just fought 1 warrior 2 mage 1 rog, and rogues still relevant, ill try and get a vid soon.

IGN - nah 56 not my world so its better not knowing.

I'd love to duel Vs you, my IGN it's Valkiryas.

[Plqgue]

And a actual skilled rogue can kill a mage almost everytime if you aren't killing mage maybe it's because you're under skilled

[Plqgue]

And a actual skilled rogue can kill a mage almost everytime in vs if you aren't killing mage maybe it's because you're under skilled
Had to fix and edit is bugged

[Redjellydonut]

Hmm why is everyone rocking grimm on your team?

[Kingofninjas]

Curse light heal shield sns - gg.

Yes fair enough a mage can beat rogue with curse but hardly any mages bother to spec curse and specing it just for vs rogues isn't a viable option with the number of skill points we have. Most mages spec fireball, light, ice, shield and heal. With those skills, a skilled rogue will usually prevail over an equally skilled mage.

[Zulgath]

Yes fair enough a mage can beat rogue with curse but hardly any mages bother to spec curse and specing it just for vs rogues isn't a viable option with the number of skill points we have. Most mages spec fireball, light, ice, shield and heal. With those skills, a skilled rogue will usually prevail over an equally skilled mage.
True, we dont have so many options of skills that r atleast abit useful in clashes or vs.

[Ssneakykills]

Also lets scrap drops so that people who aren't happy about drop rates never have anything to complain about

I woudnt reccomend that.

[yubaraj]

If i decide to not attack i am dead lol

If you are smart enough you can survive curse mage i guess.

Lets do some math here.
Max mage lighting skill attack dmg around 3k
Global Nerf and its 1.5 k
Also nekro shield 40% reduction.

Lightning damage reduced to
1.5 x 0.4 = 600. Minus armor dmg reduction its barely doing 500 damage imo.

Max 2 lightning attack during curse.

Stilll rogue can afford 1 or 2 attack during that curse period and heal themself.

Just an example and assumption how mage cannot kill rogue during curse.

Its different story if mage lightning crit and rogue couldn't dodge basic gun attack.

So my point is mage can kill rogue if only crit and dodge thing doesn't happen. And sad fact is dead mage most of the time.

[Zulgath]

If you are smart enough you can survive curse mage i guess.

Lets do some math here.
Max mage lighting skill attack dmg around 3k
Global Nerf and its 1.5 k
Also nekro shield 40% reduction.

Lightning damage reduced to
1.5 x 0.4 = 600. Minus armor dmg reduction its barely doing 500 damage imo.

Max 2 lightning attack during curse.

Stilll rogue can afford 1 or 2 attack during that curse period and heal themself.

Just an example and assumption how mage cannot kill rogue during curse.

Its different story if mage lightning crit and rogue couldn't dodge basic gun attack.

So my point is mage can kill rogue if only crit and dodge thing doesn't happen. And sad fact is dead mage most of the time.

Omg these calculations so wrong lol, mages hit me 3.5k with light if i have no shield in pvp after the global nerf lol
Do u realise that after curse is being used the rog's nekro will drain down faster, instead of talking go try it out.

Check this vid and skip it to last 3 fights where Runagain decided to use curse.
https://youtu.be/L17Tol6i5es

[Safiras]

If you are smart enough you can survive curse mage i guess.

Lets do some math here.
Max mage lighting skill attack dmg around 3k
Global Nerf and its 1.5 k
Also nekro shield 40% reduction.

Lightning damage reduced to
1.5 x 0.4 = 600. Minus armor dmg reduction its barely doing 500 damage imo.

Max 2 lightning attack during curse.

Stilll rogue can afford 1 or 2 attack during that curse period and heal themself.

Just an example and assumption how mage cannot kill rogue during curse.

Its different story if mage lightning crit and rogue couldn't dodge basic gun attack.

So my point is mage can kill rogue if only crit and dodge thing doesn't happen. And sad fact is dead mage most of the time.

Something wrong with the math you're doing. Also you're leaving out charged lighthing as well as crit damage increase. No one here will agree that lightning on a well-geared mage does 500 damage to an equally-geared rogue.

[Xinghvn]

It will be good if the devs come up with an idea that helps endgame rogues and leave twinks alone. Rogues are pretty op and needed in twink pvp especially in lvls16-17 and 26-27.

[yubaraj]

Omg these calculations so wrong lol, mages hit me 3.5k with light if i have no shield in pvp after the global nerf lol
Do u realise that after curse is being used the rog's nekro will drain down faster, instead of talking go try it out.

Check this vid and skip it to last 3 fights where Runagain decided to use curse.
https://youtu.be/L17Tol6i5es

Lol 3.5 k damage without shield.

Don't forget rogue do 2k to 3k damage even we have charged shield on with aimed shot.

And yes I did not include charge and crit calculation as mage does not have 50% crit stat.

Ok let me add charge and crit.

600 x 1.5 x 2.5 = 2250 - armor damage reduction.

Mages barely doing 2k damage if mage charged their lightning and crit happens.


And again I was saying mage may win if mage hit crits and charge lightning and rogue doesn't dodge gun attack.

Mage chance of winning is heavily dependent on crit and dodge.

[Safiras]

Lol 3.5 k damage without shield.

Don't forget rogue do 2k to 3k damage even we have charged shield on with aimed shot.

And yes I did not include charge and crit calculation as mage does not have 50% crit stat.

Ok let me add charge and crit.

600 x 1.5 x 2.5 = 2250 - armor damage reduction.

Mages barely doing 2k damage if mage charged their lightning and crit happens.


And again I was saying mage may win if mage hit crits and charge lightning and rogue doesn't dodge gun attack.

Mage chance of winning is heavily dependent on crit and dodge.

You got the damage reduction calculation completely wrong. Going by your numbers it's 3000×(1-0.4)×0.5×1.5×2.5= 3375. This is closer to what Zulgath is saying. Nekro damage reduction means we do 60% of actual damage not 40% as you have erroneously includee in your calculations in your last two posts.

This isn't a math class, but bad math that distorts figures and gives a false picture of what's happening has to be shut down. We all know from real PvP experience that mages hit harder than you claim.

[yubaraj]

You got the damage reduction calculation completely wrong. Going by your numbers it's 3000×(1-0.4)×0.5×1.5×2.5= 3375. This is closer to what Zulgath is saying. Nekro damage reduction means we do 60% of actual damage not 40% as you have erroneously includee in your calculations in your last two posts.

This isn't a math class, but bad math that distorts figures and gives a false picture of what's happening has to be shut down. We all know from real PvP experience that mages hit harder than you claim.

Sorry I did a mistake on nekro reduction part.

But you are saying mages are doing more than 3k damage that does not seem true either.

Lets skip this math class and do some real testing . then it will clarify all arguments.

The only thing I was trying to say is mage winning depends on critical and dodge.

[mondeng006]

Yay! Another thread for "Nerf mages, Buff Rouge".
#Classism

[Suentous PO]

Yay! Another thread for "Nerf mages, Buff Rouge".
#Classism

Show me where he does say "nerf mage".


STS realise this, recently I got schooled by vroom and cinco in the chatbox. Rogues can outrun and outgun the other two classes outside of organised clashes with good teams on both sides.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious if their reluctance to make changes is something simple like;

"Ofc rogue will always be weakest in team fights expecialy against mage duh." - some dev
Or some such

[soon]

Im pretty sure there are a good number of unheard rog names at endgame or team which can break a mage/tank stack.


This is serious? A rogue has almost no mana to get kill a single tank.

[Jaden Fry]

I completely agree that rogues need a buff, no arguments there.

But, I don't think that a video of an organised team against a team like that is compelling evidence. For starters the mage in that video (officialmagic) had no idea what he was doing. No covering rogue, didn't even bother trying to aim enemy dps.

Once again, not saying the result would be any different against a better team, but it wouldn't be such an overwhelming loss (0 deaths). Rogues still have a window to get a few kills in if they rejoin fast enough.
I'm late and just now seeing this but the rogue was not ours. We was trying get the rogue to leave. You don't know that so don't say anything about me. Not gonna cover a rogue that i want to leave

Ign Officialmagic

[Breakingbadxx]

I'm late and just now seeing this but the rogue was not ours. We was trying get the rogue to leave. You don't know that so don't say anything about me. Not gonna cover a rogue that i want to leave

Ign Officialmagic
You wanted to swap the rogue for a mage right?

[will0]

added on to avikk thread .. rogue run with fast speed when kill on spawn .. mage run slowly and dead when they rg

[Breakingbadxx]

added on to avikk thread .. rogue run with fast speed when kill on spawn .. mage run slowly and dead when they rg
Just like rogues have SP, mages have gale.

[Spell]

Just like rogues have SP, mages have gale.

Have u ever used gale in a clash @.@ it sling shots you and u cant even move for a good sec or two...thats a huge nono when trying to stay alive....just like its a big nono for rogues to sp away from their team whom should be covering them.

[Breakingbadxx]

Have u ever used gale in a clash @.@ it sling shots you and u cant even move for a good sec or two...thats a huge nono when trying to stay alive....just like its a big nono for rogues to sp away from their team whom should be covering them.
That's just mages choosing not to use a skill they were given to rg faster then.

[Ssneakykills]

Have u ever used gale in a clash @.@ it sling shots you and u cant even move for a good sec or two...thats a huge nono when trying to stay alive....just like its a big nono for rogues to sp away from their team whom should be covering them.

I used to use gale in clashes a long while ago at L16 pvp as it would stun more than one enemy without fully charging it and flying off the map. Obviously curse is a much better option but back then I was too lazy to respec and I used troll people with gale back then.

[justhell]

Give rog more dmg reduction and completly remove dodge on base stat (since many rog think that not giving survivability as they expected).

Also sorc AS and tank Jugg have limit dmg reduction can absorb bfore it break,if somehow they give more dmg reduction on Razor,it should work like AS and Jugg.

PS : they also need more mana pool.

[Plqgue]

That's just mages choosing not to use a skill they were given to rg faster then.

Do you use rally cry to rg when you die?

[Breakingbadxx]

Do you use rally cry to rg when you die?
No, I use SS. It works like SP.

[Plqgue]

No, I use SS. It works like SP.

Point stands we don't use gale because it's bad for pvp just like you don't use rally as its bad for pvp

[Breakingbadxx]

Point stands we don't use gale because it's bad for pvp just like you don't use rally as its bad for pvp
SS gets you from A to B faster than rally cry so its not my problem if mages feel they can't rg fast enough because they refuse to use a skill that allows them to.

[Plqgue]

SS gets you from A to B faster than rally cry so its not my problem if mages feel they can't rg fast enough because they refuse to use a skill that allows them to.
It's bugged if you use charged and hit a wall you're stuck there for a few seconds with no ability to move....there's multiple reasons mates don't use it

[Breakingbadxx]

It's bugged if you use charged and hit a wall you're stuck there for a few seconds with no ability to move....there's multiple reasons mates don't use it
Bugs aside, the skill itself allows you to get from A to B faster so I don't get complaints about mages having a problem regrouping.

[Plqgue]

Bugs aside, the skill itself allows you to get from A to B faster so I don't get complaints about mages having a problem regrouping.
It's the bug lol add five seconds for every gale needed to rg say it takes three we get stuck on two and that's 10extra seconds of a mage staring at a wall when we could've just ran and got there quicker

[Breakingbadxx]

It's the bug lol add five seconds for every gale needed to rg say it takes three we get stuck on two and that's 10extra seconds of a mage staring at a wall when we could've just ran and got there quicker
If it was truly a problem mages have, a bug fix would have been requested by now.

[Jaden Fry]

You wanted to swap the rogue for a mage right?
The rogue wasn't ours period. He pierced into the middle of clash everytime.

[Breakingbadxx]

The rogue wasn't ours period. He pierced into the middle of clash everytime.
If the rogue offered to swap him/herself, would a mage have been more desirable to you? If so, explain why.

[Jaden Fry]

If the rogue offered to swap him/herself, would a mage have been more desirable to you? If so, explain why.
I'm not saying zues is wrong cuz he's not. I was playing rogue also but came back to mage. Just saying that the rogue was not ours. I already seen that rogue in ctf so i knew he didn't know what he was doing.

[Otahaanak]

So a few thoughts on the Rogues place in clashes. Yesterday I played a few games with 2 tanks and 1 (what I considered to be a very good) rogue. We did well as long as the opposing team had at least one rogue. If the other team had only tanks and mages, the games got pretty lopsided, and not in our favor - losses 20-12, 20-10 that kind of thing.

Under those circumstances our Rogue could really add nothing to the team's survivability - whereas the other teams additional Mage or Tank covered the other three team members so that we'd get wiped. Only if the Rogue got back quickly did we secure some kills.

So ignoring Duels for a sec, how about taking something like Shadow veil and giving it an extended range (like Korruption's AA) and providing damage reduction and possibly increase another debuff like armor reduction or That reindeer AA: blinding) in order to give them a team benefit skill. On my phone so it's hard to elaborate further. These benefits could be removed during Duels, as rogues are fine in that aspect of the game IMO. Maybe even a damage bump along with it.

Personally I'd really like to see Rogues useful in clash and team situations again. It's adds a dynamic that's severely lacking in Tank and Mage stacks.

Bottom line for me is, if Rogues can't contribute due to skills, they need a buff somewhere.

And yes, I'm a Mage.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

[Errorrz]

Just play mage and problem fix . We (Mage Lover,)dont want always got gang by rog like long time ago . We dont want rog kill us with combo.

Sent from my ASUS_T00I using Tapatalk

[Fredystern]

So a few thoughts on the Rogues place in clashes. Yesterday I played a few games with 2 tanks and 1 (what I considered to be a very good) rogue. We did well as long as the opposing team had at least one rogue. If the other team had only tanks and mages, the games got pretty lopsided, and not in our favor - losses 20-12, 20-10 that kind of thing.

Under those circumstances our Rogue could really add nothing to the team's survivability - whereas the other teams additional Mage or Tank covered the other three team members so that we'd get wiped. Only if the Rogue got back quickly did we secure some kills.

So ignoring Duels for a sec, how about taking something like Shadow veil and giving it an extended range (like Korruption's AA) and providing damage reduction and possibly increase another debuff like armor reduction or That reindeer AA: blinding) in order to give them a team benefit skill. On my phone so it's hard to elaborate further. These benefits could be removed during Duels, as rogues are fine in that aspect of the game IMO. Maybe even a damage bump along with it.

Personally I'd really like to see Rogues useful in clash and team situations again. It's adds a dynamic that's severely lacking in Tank and Mage stacks.

Bottom line for me is, if Rogues can't contribute due to skills, they need a buff somewhere.

And yes, I'm a Mage.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

Wait, if they increase the sv range i think the one who will got supporter was rogue(s) not mage(s) anymore

[Sky_is_epicgear]

Wait, if they increase the sv range i think the one who will got supporter was rogue(s) not mage(s) anymore
Listen, i would like for people to stop jumping to conclusions. Nowhere has it been said that mages are a support class.

As a side note unrelated to the above quote; Also nowhere has it been said that mages should be inferior to rogues.

OrangeUnicorn

[Zynzyn]

So ignoring Duels for a sec, how about taking something like Shadow veil and giving it an extended range (like Korruption's AA) and providing damage reduction and possibly increase another debuff like armor reduction or That reindeer AA: blinding) in order to give them a team benefit skill. On my phone so it's hard to elaborate further. These benefits could be removed during Duels, as rogues are fine in that aspect of the game IMO. Maybe even a damage bump along with it.

Personally I'd really like to see Rogues useful in clash and team situations again. It's adds a dynamic that's severely lacking in Tank and Mage stacks.

Bottom line for me is, if Rogues can't contribute due to skills, they need a buff somewhere.

And yes, I'm a Mage.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

Open-minded healthy viewpoint from a team-play perspective. Love the Shadow Veil suggestion. +10

[Roninmoro]

I don't want to have to close this thread, there's some good discussion and suggestions. Keep it on topic, thanks.

[Kriticality]

It's definitely possible to win with rogue and there are exceptions to every rule. Some of these things I don't find completely accurate. I constantly charge rogues that are isolated with very good success. I will say what I've always said. Rogues need damage buff. I play with and against maxed players and have been for a long time. Mages are very strong. I dueled a good rogue last night and was able to 2 shot him on occasion. One light one ice. Dead. That's a lot of damage output from me as a Mage even considering my gear. And I hit rogues constantly for over 3k damage to the person saying it doesn't seem true. It absolutely is true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fredystern]

It's definitely possible to win with rogue and there are exceptions to every rule. Some of these things I don't find completely accurate. I constantly charge rogues that are isolated with very good success. I will say what I've always said. Rogues need damage buff. I play with and against maxed players and have been for a long time. Mages are very strong. I dueled a good rogue last night and was able to 2 shot him on occasion. One light one ice. Dead. That's a lot of damage output from me as a Mage even considering my gear. And I hit rogues constantly for over 3k damage to the person saying it doesn't seem true. It absolutely is true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didint think rogue need damage buff since they could 1hit unshield mage(s) if they got buff again what next? Warr1aim?

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

I didint think rogue need damage buff since they could 1hit unshield mage(s) if they got buff again what next? Warr1aim?

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

When does a Mage not have a shield? Between Nekro and arcane shield, there are sparse amounts of times that I am without a shield.

[Fredystern]

When does a Mage not have a shield? Between Nekro and arcane shield, there are sparse amounts of times that I am without a shield.
Most mage didnt use shield cycle when vs a rogue, mostly mage use 2shield to reduce the damage so we could hold around 4combo before our shield break, most rogue only 1combo to break nekro shield on mage

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Most mage didnt use shield cycle when vs a rogue, mostly mage use 2shield to reduce the damage so we could hold around 4combo before our shield break, most rogue only 1combo to break nekro shield on mage

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

Those mages don't know how to play. Damage reduction between the shields do not stack. Thank you for this valuable post. It just goes to show how people do not know how to play the Mage class.

[Fredystern]

Those mages don't know how to play. Damage reduction between the shields do not stack. Thank you for this valuable post. It just goes to show how people do not know how to play the Mage class.
Thats why i say mostly mage not all :/

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Thats why i say mostly mage not all :/

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk

You shouldn't include lack of knowledge as a reason why mages are weak. They're really not at all.

[Trenton]

Thats why i say mostly mage not all :/

Sent from my Lenovo P70-A using Tapatalk
You're not helping yourself here

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Here's the mage build if any sorcerers need some tips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti3lEDtnQy4

[yubaraj]

Here's the mage build if any sorcerers need some tips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti3lEDtnQy4

Nice. Thank you for sharing.

[Wiz8]

Well I'm a Mage player Daddyi I have a rogue also I find extremely difficult to play on rogue with many mages on opposite STS you guys should wake up its Extremely sad that rogues literally need a pet to live in pvp..I say this if Nekro didn't exist no rogue will not even pvp I ask you STS who is the winner here? Rogues getting 2 piece by mages or rogues needing Nekro to do basic pvp? Hm mages have shield tanks have jug rogues have a pet? Lol think I say give rogue buff they need some type of defense from my thunder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk