This NEW engi skill -_-

[LegalShet]

What are your thoughts on it....
and is it adding 60 armor to the mob you use it on or am i wrong -_-

-yours truly....
lost and confused :P

[dollarbill]

It used to minus armor if I'm not mistaken.... But now it adds... I personally think wither is better. Maybee a little less damage but it has a faster cooldown than decay.

[Cabero]

-yours truly....
Lost and confused :p

roflcopter :D

[sickside]

It used to minus armor if I'm not mistaken.... But now it adds... I personally think wither is better. Maybee a little less damage but it has a faster cooldown than decay. patch notes say they fixed a typo in the description not anything to the actual skill...

[LegalShet]

roflcopter :D
:P dont laugh at me :(




yeah i noticed it said minus 60 armor before
but if it was a typo thast means it never subtracted but added 60 to the enemy?
thats kind of welll....... stupid lol.

[bronislav84]

So is there another typo or what? Somebody clarify?

[peacemaster]

It sounded amazing with the neg armor... now it sounds like a terrible skill...
Taking speeds based on plat items - commando speed (0.9), Op speed (0.5), and engi speed (0.6)... duration 10 secs of the skill, assuming it will reduce 1 dmg a hit (this was discussed endlessly earlier).

In a team made of 2 OPs, 1 commando, 2 engis:
you would lose 16.666 dmg for an engi (~33 for 2),
20 dmg for OP (40 for 2),
and 11.111 dmg for commando
which translates to roughly 84 damage per team lost by this skill on. Now... how much damage does it do? For lvl 6, it does 20-35 dmg which translates to 27.5 avg and 137.5 total damage on average

Damage dealt by the skill: 137.5
Total damage dealt: 53.5 (137.5-84)

If you take wither...
12(avg)*5 = 60

Leech...
15(avg)*3 = 45

Well, as awesome that the skill sounded with the - armor, the change to + armor is riddiculus. The damage is less (depending on the group setup). This skill is only worth it over wither when not running a full group, or maybe a group full of commandos. I'll be getting rid of it. I thought I was getting 87 more damage when I got the skill.

[LegalShet]

^ agree with peace i have mine at lvl 5 when it said MINUS armor.
now that it adds.. which is ridiculous... ill be respecing into another useless skill lol
-_-

[peacemaster]

^ agree with peace i have mine at lvl 5 when it said MINUS armor.
now that it adds.. which is ridiculous... ill be respecing into another useless skill lol
-_-

Could you please get me the damage range for lvl 6? want to make the numbers accurate

[ezarf]

It is 20-35 with +60 armour, hoping that is typo since name is decay would think so if not should rename it to fortify

[Fac3bon3s]

I'm so glad some of you out there are mathematical geniuses. I am forever indebted to you.

[GigaBits]

Agreed, I don't understand how/why a skill called decay would add armor.
Only thing I can think of(tests pending) is it is some kind of aggro management. This would work if you drop wither, leech or empathy on a boss or mini boss then decay to kind of mitigate aggro. The theory here is that adding armor to an enemy is kind of like a negative taunt or in other words buffing an enemy makes them consider you less of a threat.

On a side note, while doing some testing, I noticed that with max leech, max decay and pain I was able to essentially triple my dps, due to dots and auto attack. I noticed a hefty difference in my scorcher run times using this set up with 2 eng, 2 com and 1 op

[Hullukko]

The +60 is just absurd, silly and ... I dunno, did I say absurd?

It did read -60 when I pumped it to 6 as soon as I first got it. I've found it a really good skill. I causes serious damage, but I can't speak for the armor buff, it really can be either way, I can't say. The armor is just that meaningless in sl for it to go unnoticed.

[sickside]

Its funny how the idea of us gaining 60 armor via protection is shuned upon but everyone acts like the enemy gaining 60 armor is a bad idea

[Cahaun]

Its funny how the idea of us gaining 60 armor via protection is shuned upon but everyone acts like the enemy gaining 60 armor is a bad idea
Lol my armor boost is minor to the same armor the enemy gets. Riiiiiight :p
Probably a typo.

[sickside]

Even if it is a typo it makes me lol because if 60 armor is horrible for us to have then it shouldn't be as bad for the mobs to have but people for some reason are freaking out saying protection and ruin are both horrible make uo your minds lol

[Dark Avenger]

Yeah I don't get why everyone is freaking out. The protection adding +60 to us isn't worth it so what's this +60 to the enemy? It does good damage, even though cool down still kinda sucks. But I'm liking the skill and using it. I couldn't figure out what to invest my skill point into when I hit 28 so I gave this a shot and will continue adding to it till I hit level cap :)

[peacemaster]

Even if it is a typo it makes me lol because if 60 armor is horrible for us to have then it shouldn't be as bad for the mobs to have but people for some reason are freaking out saying protection and ruin are both horrible make uo your minds lol

Well, I have maxed protection to be honest and I think that every engi should have it maxed if he claims to play support. The 60 armor basically saves you 1 damage per hit. The same for the mob. If you take some boss, 60 armor still saves that 1 damage a hit. But 10 seconds is a long time. In that 10 seconds, your team (assuming 2 op, 2 engi, 1 com) can hit 84 times. That translates to 84 damage lost to the armor you buffed the mob with. The skill deals 137.5 damage on average minus that 84 damage, which brings the damage dealt to 53.5 damage. Wither on the other hand will do 60 damage.

These numbers will vary on group setup.

[sickside]

yeah personally i like protection as soon as i hit 28 and i can use the shield i have im specing back into protection and its not really for everyone else as much as its for me i can keep everyone healed and if they do die i can revive but if i die and im the only engineer then everyone has to wait till i run back so the extra armor of shield + protection will allow me to survive longer and heal longer while im stealing everyone elses agro in those though spam heal situations

[Hullukko]

Yeah I don't get why everyone is freaking out. The protection adding +60 to us isn't worth it so what's this +60 to the enemy? It does good damage, even though cool down still kinda sucks. But I'm liking the skill and using it. I couldn't figure out what to invest my skill point into when I hit 28 so I gave this a shot and will continue adding to it till I hit level cap :)

Freaking out or not, I think matters a lot because it changes how the skill should be used. If the sign is positive one has to switch targets a lot more, "cast and switch" if you please, hoping to still inflict max dps but to a number of enemies and yet avoiding hitting against that positively buffed enemy armor. And if the sign is negative then use it primarily against the toughest and most armored enemy and as soon as possible, so that most of the other dps is hit against that negatively buffed armor. Big difference there.

That said, I believe I said earlier, that I hadn't noticed the armor effect at all. And I had used it under the assumption that it's -60 like it was at the time when I took it into use. So the +-60 is still pretty much negligible and the matter is now only about how to use it optimally.

[piyoni1]

i would prefer using decay with protection. because protection will negates decay armor feature. :listening_headphone so u dont have to worry about "plus armor" thing on mobs.
ı guess pretty quick solution if u want to use this skill

[peacemaster]

i would prefer using decay with protection. because protection will negates decay armor feature. :listening_headphone so u dont have to worry about "plus armor" thing on mobs.
ı guess pretty quick solution if u want to use this skill

ugh, no?

decay and protection both add armor. Protection adds armor to you, decay to the mob. They are independent. Plus armor on you means you die slower, plus armor on mobs means they die slower. You'd need to boost everyone's attack in the team by 1 to negate decay's armor bonus

[GigaBits]

No one mentioned amplify pain, yet. Amplify pain is the operative skill which, when full 6/6, removes 120 armor from the target. So here's the balancing act.

AP lasts 5 seconds with an 8 second cooldown, decay lasts for 10 seconds with a 20 second cool down. I'll use the group set up and numbers from previous posts and say 84 damage is lost for 10 seconds, this would mean a gain of 168 from AP. Assuming this operative casts it twice while decay in cooldown it makes 336, or 252 gained damage after adjusting for decay on a 20 second timeline.

Does it make the skill worth it? Idk, I use it and like it, your mileage may vary.
Someone else noted that using these skills effectively means more screen tapping and target shifting for maximum effect. I couldn't agree more.

[Hullukko]

I did some quick trials in Outer Limits and Squatter Camps. The dogs in Squatter Camps take less damage than those in Outer Limits which is an indication that they have at least some armor. I wore some early power gloves which had the narrowest damage range of my weapons. I consistently inflicted damage from 19 to 23. Then I tried a couple dozen times right after decay. I struck 24 about five or six times and never below 20.

Far from conclusive, I know, but based on that I'd go with the hypothesis that decay causes -60 to enemy target rather than +60.

Feel free to confirm or dispute this...

[piyoni1]

ugh, no?

decay and protection both add armor. Protection adds armor to you, decay to the mob. They are independent. Plus armor on you means you die slower, plus armor on mobs means they die slower. You'd need to boost everyone's attack in the team by 1 to negate decay's armor bonus


what?

for example:
first cast protection u get armor "+60 armor"
then cast decay mob gets "+60 armor + whatever dmg is"
so u see u dont have to worry about armor in both sides...they negates each other.. .. just a simple logic.... only decays damage is essential.
it is very very simple

[Hullukko]

They certainly wouldn't negate each other. That's just silly logic. There are a number of factor that affect armor efficiency, e.g. frequency of hits, magnitude of hits, crit, hit, etc. They are not symmetric and hence the effect isn't either. The armor effect is definitely not linear. And even if all stats were symmetric and all that, even then the armor buffs wouldn't cancel each other out because the fight would still last longer.

Picture this: I'm poking you with a toothpick and you're shooting me with a gatling gun. Then if we both put on, say, leather jackets, do you think they cancel each other out? No. My toothpick get blocked while your bullets will perforate me.

Besides, like I said. Based on the trials I made earlier, the decay would indeed seem to decrease enemy armor like the original description said.

[piyoni1]

yeah yeah..an other factor is how my finger hits beside my finger is shorter...and also there is some dust on my screen.. it also effects.. lol..
u are just trying to complicate the issue like a maze..it is funny bro.. i like that... ;)
actually i am a follower of KISS princible :soap:
and u know this leather jacket example is very silly however poking someone with a toothpick is priceless :single_eye:

[Cahaun]

They certainly wouldn't negate each other. That's just silly logic. There are a number of factor that affect armor efficiency, e.g. frequency of hits, magnitude of hits, crit, hit, etc. They are not symmetric and hence the effect isn't either. The armor effect is definitely not linear. And even if all stats were symmetric and all that, even then the armor buffs wouldn't cancel each other out because the fight would still last longer.

Picture this: I'm poking you with a toothpick and you're shooting me with a gatling gun. Then if we both put on, say, leather jackets, do you think they cancel each other out? No. My toothpick get blocked while your bullets will perforate me.

Besides, like I said. Based on the trials I made earlier, the decay would indeed seem to decrease enemy armor like the original description said.
All I first read was "toothpicks" and a "gattling gun" lol, but I like to know that the results of you test showed that decay does -60 armor.

[sickside]

he auto attacks with weapon for i dont remember 10 hits or so records the damage per hit then hits with decay and auto attacks for 10 or so hits records the damage and puts the numbers side by side and realizes he auto attacked harder when decay was in effect for those that dont understand

[Elf-Orc-Naga]

It is 20-35 with +60 armour, hoping that is typo since name is decay would think so if not should rename it to fortify
fortify nice!
Agree! Hope i can cast to commando lol

[Teddyache]

Kamikazees and Hullukko have independently checked and said that it is in fact a debuff of -60. Scroll down this thread for details:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?37345-Actual-Damage-of-Wither-Leech-and-Decay

Has anyone else tested it also? I am spending my weekend on planes and at weddings but I'll test it too next week. If it can be proven to be -60, I think the team benefit makes it a borderline must have Engineer skill.

[LelouchX]

even if it adds 60 armor to the enemy, this translates to an actual damage reduction of 1, maybe 2 tops. This really should have no effect on how quickly a mob dies if you are running with a good group. Just from experience, i have tried runs with and without using the skill, and using it doesn't seem to slow down mobs dying. I am a suppor engi, and i like have a couple dps skills that have a short cool down, so i think this skill is worth it. This is the same logic I have for the uselessness of protection, which really only offers a decrease of 2-3 damage for the group. This also should have no effect on your group's survival, once again, if you have a good group.

[LelouchX]

i've just spent about 30 minutes testing this out, using decay maxed and pain maxed:

before decay:
pain min, 23, max 28 (aoe explosion - min 39, max 44)

after decay:
pain min, 25, max 29 (aoe explosion - min 41, max 47)

But test it yourself if you are not convinced.

[GigaBits]

Sorry to burst the bubble, and thanks for spending your time testing, but the + in the skill description was a typo as pointed out in patch notes. It is a confirmed negative armor debuff to the target enemy. If you check your skill description you will see that it reads "-10" or "-60" if you have it maxed

Again, thanks for spending your time testing things out, I always highly encourage getting the information for ourselves as opposed to relying on what others have said.

[LelouchX]

haha, i found the the thread stating exactly what you just said too gigabits, of course that was after i spent my time testing it.... On a side note, i'd love to run with you in game some time!