View Full Version : Can we remove the aps from the 5,000 and 10,000 flag achievements?
Perceval
10-24-2016, 10:46 AM
They just seem too much considering they were intended to be done under combat conditions. I think the others up to 1,000 flags granting aps is fine.
Those that gained 5,000 and 10,000 flags can instead be rewarded titles or something.
To save space for another thread - On the top player leaderboard, PvE kills are used as a tie breaker. Since the PvE kills leaderboard was removed because it was prone to cheating..can something else be used as a tie breaker? Its almost like the top player leaderboard is: work hard to gather aps --> cheat to gain a top spot.
resurrected
10-24-2016, 11:34 AM
You have answer for second question in first request if you look into it. Flags are breaker most of time. Yea i don't mind removing them also. I gave up on lb cause of this and now lack of time [emoji14]
You got Any ideas for " breaker"? Like maybe somberholt ranks?
Perceval
10-24-2016, 12:34 PM
You have answer for second question in first request if you look into it. Flags are breaker most of time. Yea i don't mind removing them also. I gave up on lb cause of this and now lack of time [emoji14]
You got Any ideas for " breaker"? Like maybe somberholt ranks?
I'll have a think about tie breakers. Thanks for your input. Any ideas on new tie breakers are welcome folks.
resurrected
10-24-2016, 01:02 PM
I'll have a think about tie breakers. Thanks for your input. Any ideas on new tie breakers are welcome folks.
As i said in previous post i thought about new ranks ( advocate , lightbearer and so on ) make it 50 aps per rank or so wouldn't be bad for lb. People grind it anyway
Visiting
10-24-2016, 01:03 PM
As i said in previous post i thought about new ranks ( advocate , lightbearer and so on ) make it 50 aps per rank or so wouldn't be bad for lb. People grind it anyway
Isn't it already that way?
resurrected
10-24-2016, 01:05 PM
Isn't it already that way?
Damn I'm outdated then. Didn't knew its on APS. Forget
Why need to remove achievement 10k flag.. its easy LOL..
Or better you remove Arcane Legend from ur phone cuz this games not for you.. Hehe :P
epicrrr
10-24-2016, 10:48 PM
Others did it and got those ap so theyre on "top player".
Perceval
10-25-2016, 03:24 AM
Why need to remove achievement 10k flag.. its easy LOL..
Or better you remove Arcane Legend from ur phone cuz this games not for you.. Hehe :P
That joke was almost as original as your ign when comparing it to new ign's.
Others did it and got those ap so theyre on "top player".
Most did it at a time where CTF was extremely active. Its been dead since the 56 cap. I'm asking for change with the times.
Its not even done as it was intended. People just flag freely. This was intended to be done during combat so its pretty ridiculous.
Its not like the people who gained 5,000 and 10,000 flags shouldn't still be rewarded for their achievements.
Why need to remove achievement 10k flag.. its easy LOL..
Or better you remove Arcane Legend from ur phone cuz this games not for you.. Hehe :P
Because people have commitments outside of the game and don't have the 2-3 hours in a day, every day of the week, to pointlessly move flags from A to B and back...
Ssneakykills
10-25-2016, 08:20 AM
Why need to remove achievement 10k flag.. its easy LOL..
Or better you remove Arcane Legend from ur phone cuz this games not for you.. Hehe :P
Easy if you bot it aye :)
Not everyone has as much time on their hands as you some of us have work and don't want to come home and slave away for a pixel banner. Personally I don't find any banners impressive except timed runs and those very few legit pve banners.
Abuze
10-25-2016, 09:52 AM
This has already been discussed multiple times. Same comments every single time. Achievements aren't things that should be easy. They require time and dedication. If you want to be on Top Players LB flags APS are required. Not because those that don't have enough time or find flagging silly, STS should remove it, no. If you trully want to accomplish something you work hard for it to achieve it. Not because you might not want to work, put effort in these APS they have to be removed. No no.
What most people don't understand is the people who got the APs got them during a time where it wasn't so difficult to flag. By that, I mean, they could earn 70+ flags per hour.
Twerk
10-25-2016, 10:07 AM
My friend is using 2 devices (2 chars) to open rooms for himself to reach 10k flags aps. Maniacally sitting there for hours sometimes, he already did 1k flags in 1 week (around 9k now) so it's all about if you are lazy or not. Up to you to run or not -> It has to be comptetitive.
Btw. you don't need 10k flags APS to get on Top Player Lb :)
Perceval
10-25-2016, 10:49 AM
This has already been discussed multiple times. Same comments every single time. Achievements aren't things that should be easy. They require time and dedication. If you want to be on Top Players LB flags APS are required. Not because those that don't have enough time or find flagging silly, STS should remove it, no. If you trully want to accomplish something you work hard for it to achieve it. Not because you might not want to work, put effort in these APS they have to be removed. No no.
Maybe a developer can just confirm this by telling us if the flag aps were intended to be achieved via (non-combat, peaceful, non PvP) free-flagging.
Its not a case of no "time", no "dedication", finding "flagging silly" and laziness. its the case of: who actually gained 5,000 or 10,000 flags while in a legit PvP situation?
My friend is using 2 devices (2 chars) to open rooms for himself to reach 10k flags aps. Maniacally sitting there for hours sometimes, he already did 1k flags in 1 week (around 9k now) so it's all about if you are lazy or not. Up to you to run or not -> It has to be comptetitive.
Btw. you don't need 10k flags APS to get on Top Player Lb :)
So your friend is flagging the way it was intended correct?
My thoughts exactly:
What most people don't understand is the people who got the APs got them during a time where it wasn't so difficult to flag. By that, I mean, they could earn 70+ flags per hour.
Carapace
10-25-2016, 11:06 AM
Hey guys,
Just want to chime in here on our stance on this one. It's true that the game has changed over time and though it may be a high number by today's standard we won't be changing it. The primary reason is because the achievement has been earned by many many players and any reduction in requirements to it would be a disservice to players that have spent the time to earn it.
Perceval
10-25-2016, 11:17 AM
Hey guys,
Just want to chime in here on our stance on this one. It's true that the game has changed over time and though it may be a high number by today's standard we won't be changing it. The primary reason is because the achievement has been earned by many many players and any reduction in requirements to it would be a disservice to players that have spent the time to earn it.
Seems fair enough. BUT:
Maybe revert flagging back to the 2 people can hold 2 flags at the same time system since these many many players got all the/the majority of the flag aps during that time? its better than just leaving it the way it is now.
If its the case of not changing the aps themselves. How about giving us all an equal chance to get them?
resurrected
10-25-2016, 11:29 AM
Hey guys,
Just want to chime in here on our stance on this one. It's true that the game has changed over time and though it may be a high number by today's standard we won't be changing it. The primary reason is because the achievement has been earned by many many players and any reduction in requirements to it would be a disservice to players that have spent the time to earn it.
Adding new flag based map as CTF could help here. I got also idea about add flag option to Guild Battleground. Not kill based but one who get more flags after 15 minutes ( or longer amount of time ) wins.
Hey guys,
Just want to chime in here on our stance on this one. It's true that the game has changed over time and though it may be a high number by today's standard we won't be changing it. The primary reason is because the achievement has been earned by many many players and any reduction in requirements to it would be a disservice to players that have spent the time to earn it.
I think this is disappointing. I think JustG's vision for this game doesn't align with your response, Carapace.
For the people who had to spend hundreds of hours grinding flags I am truly sorry, but this AP is extremely outdated. Some sort of recognition (much like the 100m - midas touch title) is in order
Ssneakykills
10-25-2016, 01:48 PM
I think this is disappointing. I think JustG's vision for this game doesn't align with your response, Carapace.
For the people who had to spend hundreds of hours grinding flags I am truly sorry, but this AP is extremely outdated. Some sort of recognition (much like the 100m - midas touch title) is in order
Coudnt of said it better myself
Perceval
10-25-2016, 02:13 PM
I think this is disappointing. I think JustG's vision for this game doesn't align with your response, Carapace.
For the people who had to spend hundreds of hours grinding flags I am truly sorry, but this AP is extremely outdated. Some sort of recognition (much like the 100m - midas touch title) is in order
Very disappointing indeed.
Justg
10-25-2016, 02:30 PM
For the record, my vision does align with Carapace's response.
Perceval
10-25-2016, 03:23 PM
For the record, my vision does align with Carapace's response.
Maybe a new mini CTF map thats more accommodating of free flagging specifically can be added? Like you did with the new TDM map to accommodate noninterference from trulle.
Like a 1v1 race to see who can capture the most flags in the allotted time.
Ssneakykills
10-25-2016, 03:46 PM
It's funny when I played ctf in pocket legends we actually played the game type as it should and it was natural and weird to use a ctf map and not capture the flag. When I transitioned to arcane legends a few years ago it was so much different and I don't think I've ever played a proper ctf game in al when people actually played the objective.
Twerk
10-25-2016, 05:29 PM
Can you guys just add back the option that 2 people can hoard and score the flag in same time? Why was it removed actually?
mutantninjaz
10-25-2016, 05:36 PM
Lets flag in guildhall...no need to open rooms just go to gh and 2 persons can flag XD
once people get 10k flag aps they cant flag in gh anymore
P.S sounds stupid but i like it haha :playful:
Fredystern
10-25-2016, 06:40 PM
2X flag event? 😃
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Energizeric
10-25-2016, 11:03 PM
In the past I have started a few threads with various suggestions about this issue. Here are some ideas I'll repeat here:
1) I agree with Carapace that the flag APs should stay as they are. For the record, I do NOT yet have the 5k and 10k flag achievements.
2) Regarding the tiebreaker for the Top Players leaderboard, I agree that using PvE Kills as the tie breaker was never a good idea. Top Player should mean best player overall. APs come in all different categories including PvE, PvP, and even Merching and other such things. Therefore, I believe the tiebreaker should take into account many different stats.
STS already has done something similar to determine the Top Guids ranking, and I believe that formula takes into account many different statistics for each guild. So first they determine the top 50 guilds based on APs, and then they rank those 50 guilds based on this formula.
So similarly, they could determine the Top 25 players of each class, and then rank those Top 25 based on a similar kind of formula which takes into account PvE Kills, CTF Kills, TDM Kills, and Flags.
A very simple solution is to rank each of the Top 25 players in order from 1 to 25 in each of those 4 categories, with 1 being the best and 25 being the worst. Then take the average of those 4 rankings for each player -- let's call this the "Ranking Index". So a lower Ranking Index would indicate a better score.
Then when ranking the Top 25 players, they can use this Ranking Index as a tie breaker when 2 or more players have the same number of APs.
3) As for Capture The Flag (CTF), it is supposed to be a team game. The problem has always been that there are no team stats, so players never really cared who wins or loses the game and have always only been interested in personal stats.
So in the early days, players just used the CTF room to have clashes and few cared about the flags themselves. Now that there is a better map for clashes, nobody even goes in the CTF room.
The only way to encourage players to play CTF is to have some sort of stats and achievements for team results in CTF. I had previously suggested some sort of Wins & Losses stat for each player.
Alternatively, one could convert the current Flag count to mean Team Flags, meaning that if any player on your teams scores a flag, then everyone gets a +1 to their stat. That alone would not cause CTF to be played as intended. However, you could also add a new "Flags Against" stat which gets a +1 any time any member of the other team scores a flag. Now you would be encouraging players to try to stop flags from being scored against them, and this would indeed encourage team play and encourage CTF to be played as intended.
Abuze
10-25-2016, 11:58 PM
So similarly, they could determine the Top 25 players of each class, and then rank those Top 25 based on a similar kind of formula which takes into account PvE Kills, CTF Kills, TDM Kills, and Flags.
This will just make players dummy farm tbh.. Exact same as if there was an LB for CTF/TDM kills.
Alternatively, one could convert the current Flag count to mean Team Flags, meaning that if any player on your teams scores a flag, then everyone gets a +1 to their stat. That alone would not cause CTF to be played as intended. However, you could also add a new "Flags Against" stat which gets a +1 any time any member of the other team scores a flag. Now you would be encouraging players to try to stop flags from being scored against them, and this would indeed encourage team play and encourage CTF to be played as intended.
This will make the APS way too easy to be achieved. Achievements shouldn't be things that can be easily done. They should be hard, require lot of time and dedication
Perceval
10-26-2016, 02:34 AM
This will just make players dummy farm tbh.. Exact same as if there was an LB for CTF/TDM kills.
This will make the APS way too easy to be achieved. Achievements shouldn't be things that can be easily done. They should be hard, require lot of time and dedication
I don't know what "lot of time and dedication" means to you personally but considering you achieved the lightbearer rank (55,000 points) in the time you did. I'd say you have too much time on your hands and don't represent the average player. A game shouldn't be a 2nd job for some people because they can barely find time for AL due to their actual job. These achievements need to be more representative of the entire player population of AL. They can be hard, yes. But not so ridiculous it becomes a 2nd job. That being said, the elite mob kill and boss kill APS are fine. Some of the flag APS just aren't.
We know its ridiculous because people aren't doing it right.
*New NFL competition:
The player that scores 1,000,000 touchdowns in their career gets a special trophy. Since the touchdowns are counted by touch sensitive panels placed on both sides of the field, players sneak in after the games to keep continuously running across from one side of the field to another to put the ball down on the panels till they achieve 1,000,000 touchdowns.
Why aren't they just doing the touchdowns normally in a game situation you wonder? Because the rewarded task is not possible to achieve via game situations.
Welcome to AL.
This will make the APS way too easy to be achieved. Achievements shouldn't be things that can be easily done. They should be hard, require lot of time and dedication
But using a second account to open rooms to flag with no opposition to defend is alright and doesn't make things too easy? That must be so hard and require so much dedication!
intizamfamily888
10-26-2016, 04:39 AM
But using a second account to open rooms to flag with no opposition to defend is alright and doesn't make things too easy? That must be so hard and require so much dedication!
For me that way of flagging is like dummy farming it is an abuse which has to be prevented
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Breakingbadxx
10-26-2016, 05:39 AM
For me that way of flagging is like dummy farming it is an abuse which has to be prevented
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Ironically it's pretty much like dummy farming. Hence why the 5,000 and 10,000 flag aps are called ridiculous.
Vvildfire
10-26-2016, 06:42 AM
I think this is disappointing. I think JustG's vision for this game doesn't align with your response, Carapace.
For the record, my vision does align with Carapace's response.
Found this funny :)
As for the topic, unless I'm getting it wrong, the reason you're suggesting this is because of the top players LB (right?).
I... Don't pvp, so I can't really tell, but if flagging currently really is as hard as you say, in addition to the fact that people who flag would usually "free-flag" and not play CTF properly... I think it shouldn't be the only way to reach the LB. There doesn't have to be just one tie breaker, right?
Would it be acceptable to have a really hard AP that could take the flag APs' place?
Faliziaga
10-26-2016, 09:45 AM
When season 9 was ending Cinco said in chat box that pve kills are dumb. Imo Flag APs that aren't properly played in a ctf game but free flagged are the most dumb APs in this game. While farming pve kills I can level my pet, farm gold or items, improve on pulls and on time, but free flagging just for APs, opening rooms on alts, dummy flag or flag with friends, hmm nty. My 1k+ flags are from season II there used to be ctf games and I don't plan on free flagging.
Btw when u compare pvp APs and pve kill APs it's kinda weird to just have 5k and 10k pve kill APs. I think when STS made these APs in early time, they just put the same numbers for pve and pvp without any future relation. Anyway to have or not to have the flag APs decides about being on top player lb (at least rogue).
And I agree with Sneaky about pl ctf, a huge difference to al ctf. I used to play and enjoy pl ctf a lot and it was a real capture the flag!
epicrrr
10-26-2016, 10:12 AM
What most people don't understand is the people who got the APs got them during a time where it wasn't so difficult to flag. By that, I mean, they could earn 70+ flags per hour.
The most ive flagged is 190-250 in 10+ hours.. That was free flag/being chased by enemy guild and clash in between also pvp 2013 2014 and early 2015 was where pvp 10 11 12 13 14 is at its peak.
stricker20000
10-26-2016, 10:27 AM
The main problem with Flag APs is that there is no legit way to do those. There is CTF map (which indeed was never rly played as CTF) that is completely extinct, you ain't find a single player in there most of the times. As a result you can't flag doin CTF but you can just get flags using several accounts (cheating?!?!? sense?) or "flag-friends" doing the same job as the other accounts would. I hardly can see any sense in those APs nowadays. So if i have to choose the more dumb thing out of Flag-APs or PVE Kill leaderboard, I'd choose Flag-APs. (Faliziaga told a few reasons; but also I know a rogue that was ranked pretty high on PVE Kills LB all the seasons she played without using a bot or cheating in any other way a single time)
To be honest those players who took their time to get those stupid flag APs by exploiting the CTF map (I call it exploit because getting flags without playing CTF is ..idk how you wanna call it) already had their spot on LB due to those APs and got their banners. Even PVE Kills are better for Top Player ranking than those flag APs. A player who has Flag APs (which has nothing to do with skill or something) can still use PvE kills farming bot to get even higher so thats not an argument. Seems to me that sts keeps flag APs for ranking on Top Player LB, thinking bot problem is solved that way. I just say NO, only way to solve bot problem is checking the accounts on LB for such activity.
IDK if sts really wants us to skip one month playing content to exploit CTF map for flag APs.
Kingofninjas
10-26-2016, 12:26 PM
Here I was thinking no more class lb banners would be awarded...
Pretty sure Cinco once told me they will bee going for a time when timed run banners R only the seasonal banners.
Yes that would be great. He top player leaderboard should be taken out entirely. It is a gross misrepresentation of who the top players really are. Half of the players on that leaderboard are just people mindlessly farming PvE kills with no actual PvE skill, leave alone PvP skill.
Perceval
10-26-2016, 01:04 PM
Yes that would be great. He top player leaderboard should be taken out entirely. It is a gross misrepresentation of who the top players really are. Half of the players on that leaderboard are just people mindlessly farming PvE kills with no actual PvE skill, leave alone PvP skill.
You forgot macros and scripting.
seraneyla
10-26-2016, 10:50 PM
Why wanna remove some player dedication and hard work even if he/she opened up the room himself? Its a super boring aps and the one who did this is just crazy af! I totally respect the ppl who spent their times and did this over and over again. If you want the same results and maybe you should do that other than "jealous" of some people achievements.
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Why wanna remove some player dedication and hard work even if he/she opened up the room himself? Its a super boring aps and the one who did this is just crazy af! I totally respect the ppl who spent their times and did this over and over again. If you want the same results and maybe you should do that other than "jealous" of some people achievements.
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Ikr.. My guildmate , Teacup she take 1 month to make 10k flag..
nothing is imposibble.
Do or Leave ! Stop complain like blablablabla..
Dorang jeles sara.. wakaka
Perceval
10-27-2016, 03:56 AM
Ikr.. My guildmate , Teacup she take 1 month to make 10k flag..
nothing is imposibble.
Do or Leave ! Stop complain like blablablabla..
Dorang jeles sara.. wakaka
Why wanna remove some player dedication and hard work even if he/she opened up the room himself? Its a super boring aps and the one who did this is just crazy af! I totally respect the ppl who spent their times and did this over and over again. If you want the same results and maybe you should do that other than "jealous" of some people achievements.
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Since these posts were like so 2 years ago. I'll keep you updated. Its now a case of changing the way flagging works or a new CTF map.
Keep up please.
And, 10,000 flags in 1 month? Erm? I hope not sleeping, not going to work and not leaving the house for a month to achieve an ap isn't promoted by this game.
Ikr.. My guildmate , Teacup she take 1 month to make 10k flag..
nothing is imposibble.
Do or Leave ! Stop complain like blablablabla..
Dorang jeles sara.. wakaka
1 month = 10k flags?!?!
Someone needs to find themselves something better to do with her time...
Just keep the titles (add one for the 10k flag ap) but remove the points.