View Full Version : Is there a valid reason why rogue's daggers have armor bonus and mage's staff not?
chorba69
10-28-2016, 01:04 AM
Hello,
so I've been inactive since lv36 cap and been always playing the mage.
Now on lv61, I have noticed that rogues lv61 daggers have a bonus of 293 Armor.
I dont know if it was like this the past seasons.
Is there a valid reason why is it so and why the mages do not have it?
I can understand that it's maybe because of the dagger's close range, but, a staff is a semi-close range weapon too.
EbenevTheMage
10-28-2016, 05:25 AM
the staff decreases enemy armor by 20% each basic attack
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Hello,
so I've been inactive since lv36 cap and been always playing the mage.
Now on lv61, I have noticed that rogues lv61 daggers have a bonus of 293 Armor.
I dont know if it was like this the past seasons.
Is there a valid reason why is it so and why the mages do not have it?
I can understand that it's maybe because of the dagger's close range, but, a staff is a semi-close range weapon too.
Ok, we will analyze. The legendary daggers level 54 had gained armor. The mythical level 51 had 70% damage reduction. The arcane level 56 had damage reduction and healing. Just follow the trends to make the most defensive daggers.
Vvildfire
10-28-2016, 06:49 AM
the staff decreases enemy armor by 20% each basic attack
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On the other hand daggers increase the player's armor by 10% constantly, as long as you auto-attack (which takes a fraction of a second)
Rogues don't have a shield/juggernaut, it's reasonable (pve player opinion)
ilhanna
10-28-2016, 07:10 AM
My take on this is that the rogues have had their armor nerfed at the end of cap 46. And it's a class that has very little crowd control ability, so no stun or snare. And rogues have no shield. But that's just my opinion.
Carapace
10-28-2016, 01:49 PM
A short answer is that in order to capitalize on the effective range of daggers Rogue's needed a way to help mitigate some of the damage. Mage staves have superior range compared to daggers and do not provide the armor. Additionally, Mage's do have an Arcane Shield skill, and while Razor Shield with mastery helps a lot it does not yield the same amount of mitigation as the Arcane Shield.
Just because they are not identical does not mean they are not tuned for their class and the playstyle associated with the weapons. It's how the many parts add up to the whole, and not as simple as "They got an apple I need an apple too". One got an apple the other got an orange, but they are both fruit.
A short answer is that in order to capitalize on the effective range of daggers Rogue's needed a way to help mitigate some of the damage. Mage staves have superior range compared to daggers and do not provide the armor. Additionally, Mage's do have an Arcane Shield skill, and while Razor Shield with mastery helps a lot it does not yield the same amount of mitigation as the Arcane Shield.
Just because they are not identical does not mean they are not tuned for their class and the playstyle associated with the weapons. It's how the many parts add up to the whole, and not as simple as "They got an apple I need an apple too". One got an apple the other got an orange, but they are both fruit.
Thanks for the clarification. ^-^
Valkiryas
10-28-2016, 04:46 PM
A short answer is that in order to capitalize on the effective range of daggers Rogue's needed a way to help mitigate some of the damage. Mage staves have superior range compared to daggers and do not provide the armor. Additionally, Mage's do have an Arcane Shield skill, and while Razor Shield with mastery helps a lot it does not yield the same amount of mitigation as the Arcane Shield.
Just because they are not identical does not mean they are not tuned for their class and the playstyle associated with the weapons. It's how the many parts add up to the whole, and not as simple as "They got an apple I need an apple too". One got an apple the other got an orange, but they are both fruit.
Wait What? ......
Ckc Chen
10-28-2016, 11:59 PM
Razor shield provides more dodge, and max mastery provides 10% dmg reduction. Anyway just use bow. Its better than daggers these days because rogue has little defense.
Alwarez
10-29-2016, 01:00 PM
Razor shield provides more dodge, and max mastery provides 10% dmg reduction. Anyway just use bow. Its better than daggers these days because rogue has little defense.
Curse and aimshot will 1 hit rogue, doesn't matter how many dodge. Meanwhile actual shields can save from death
chorba69
10-29-2016, 01:13 PM
A short answer is that in order to capitalize on the effective range of daggers Rogue's needed a way to help mitigate some of the damage. Mage staves have superior range compared to daggers and do not provide the armor. Additionally, Mage's do have an Arcane Shield skill, and while Razor Shield with mastery helps a lot it does not yield the same amount of mitigation as the Arcane Shield.
Just because they are not identical does not mean they are not tuned for their class and the playstyle associated with the weapons. It's how the many parts add up to the whole, and not as simple as "They got an apple I need an apple too". One got an apple the other got an orange, but they are both fruit.
Thanks for ur answer and I understand what you mean.
But, rogues have 50%+ dodge chance all of the time and the mages have like max 20%.
That's why I don't think comparing razor shield and arcane shield is a good comparison. Razor increases your dodge chance even further and is doing damage while arcane shield gives u just the reduction and those 2 secs immunity but the immunity isn't "that" important since tanks use horn when a deadly attack is coming and nekro s AA is still a thing.
Staff's range isn't that superior imo because u still gotta stay near the boss as dagger-rogue and the 1hit-boss-attack has a high enough range to kill you even if you keep the max staffs range.
The lv61 dagger's and staff's proc are okay. nothing is superior over the other weapon's proc and here is the apple/orange comparison okay.
But I still think that mages/warriors need that extra stat on a weapon like the rogue (+armor) does. it doesn't have to be +armor but still, something useful would not make the mages op anyways.
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@Chor
Skills can't be dodged, only auto and pet attacks (not the AA).
chorba69
10-29-2016, 01:54 PM
@Chor
Skills can't be dodged, only auto and pet attacks (not the AA).
Yes but your survivability is still higher when you have those + ~300 armor than without it. And as I have said, Arcane Shield's 2sec damage immunity is good, but tanks use HoR when a deadly attack is incoming so those 2 seconds aren't "that" needed while fighting a boss.
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Fsuryo
10-29-2016, 01:58 PM
You wanna say what?
Rogue need that ofc at sumberholt.
For pvp? I think all of classes have their own era.
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Yes but your survivability is still higher when you have those + ~300 armor than without it. And as I have said, Arcane Shield's 2sec damage immunity is good, but tanks use HoR when a deadly attack is incoming so those 2 seconds aren't "that" needed while fighting a boss.
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Arcane shield is pretty strong. And rogues aren't that survivable. The only difference you're seeing now is that rogues actually produce meaningful damage.
chorba69
10-29-2016, 02:05 PM
Arcane shield is pretty strong. And rogues aren't that survivable. The only difference you're seeing now is that rogues actually produce meaningful damage.
Yeah, it is. I never said it's not. But I still the rogues/mages should share same or equal good stat on a weapon since that's a stat difference between the weapons.
But yeah, if you compare rogue's and mage's dmg at a boss fight, rogues are pretty superior to mages. The damage rogues deal is just much better.
Mages are CC anyways and they shouldn't deal as much dmg as rogues but the survivability should be the same or equal good. When razor and arcane shield are on cooldown, rogues have imo higher chance to survive than a mage.
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Meowtho
10-29-2016, 02:10 PM
Yeah, it is. I never said it's not. But I still the rogues/mages should share same or equal good stat on a weapon since that's a stat difference between the weapons.
But yeah, if you compare rogue's and mage's dmg at a boss fight, rogues are pretty superior to mages. The damage rogues deal is just much better.
Mages are CC anyways and they shouldn't deal as much dmg as rogues but the survivability should be the same or equal good. When razor and arcane shield are on cooldown, rogues have imo higher chance to survive than a mage.
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then go play rogue?
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chorba69
10-29-2016, 02:14 PM
then go play rogue?
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then change this game's name to Arcane Rogues. yay...
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Meowtho
10-29-2016, 02:20 PM
then change this game's name to Arcane Rogues. yay...
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thanks for idea
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blazerdd
10-29-2016, 02:31 PM
First of all, the meaning of a rogue is to deal high amounts of damage to a single target. Rogues should win against a mage 1v1 every time - even with a shield. Mages are meant to be a supporting class, not a 2.0 rogue. That means mages should deal dot, supply mana, and be essential in a team fight.
Now, one reason for the sudden increase of power for rogues is probably as a compensation, so to speak. Rogues were completely useless last season, and were swapped out in every team fight. On top of that, watch some of Zeus's videos. A rogue couldn't even 1v1 a sorcerer.
Back to the topic though, the extra armor rogues have been given is b/c of range. All sorcerer weapons are ranged, while the rogues number one weapon choice is an up-close weapon. The extra range means you can stay behind the tanks, while still being able to use all of your attacks; compared to rogues, who must be on top of the target to use auto.
Anyona
10-29-2016, 03:32 PM
Since when was a mage meant to be a support class? Every class has support skills. If we were support, you'd see us applying shields to teammates and buffing them... is that the case? No.
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the survivability should be the same or equal good. When razor and arcane shield are on cooldown, rogues have imo higher chance to survive than a mage.
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On the other hand while you are using the arcane shield you take less damage than a rogue. :0