%Hit vs. %Crit

[IBNobody]

%Hit vs. %Crit - Which stat is more desirable?

Many would say that Crit is the more desirable stat. Is it?

EDIT: I've updated this to include damage, with surprising results.

The answer is attack dependent.

Auto Attack:

AA is how most of our damage is done. 6 factors determine DPS: Damage, Speed, %Hit, %Crit, Crit Damage, and (opponent's) %Dodge. If we throw out speed %dodge, though, we can easily compare %Hit, %Crit, and Damage. (Crit Damage, as shown by Kamakaziis, is +33%, or 133%.)

If we had an implant that could either add 10% Hit, 10% Crit, or +10 (10% of 100) damage, which would give us more damage?



10% 10% +10
Base HIT CRIT DAM
Shots 100 100 100 100
Damage 100 100 100 110
Hit 75% 85% 75% 75%
Crit 10% 10% 20% 10%
Normal Mult 100% 100% 100% 100%
Crit Mult 133% 133% 133% 133%
Shots Landed 75 85 75 75
Normal Shots 67.5 76.5 60 67.5
Crit Shots 7.5 8.5 15 7.5
Normal Dam 6750 7650 6000 7425
Crit Dam 997.5 1130.5 1995 1097.25
Total Dam 7747.5 8780.5 7995 8522.25
Dam Per Shot 77.475 87.805 79.95 85.2225


As you can see, a 10% increase in %Hit yielded a 10% increase in damage. A 10% increase in %Crit only yielded a 2.5% increase in damage.

Verdict: %Hit > Damage* > %Crit

* As long as you can keep scaling up your damage adders.

Reminder: If you get 100% Hit, you should look at increasing %Crit or adding damage to increase your total damage output.

Skills:

Skills cannot miss. They can be dodged, though. It is unclear if %Hit overcomes %Dodge. Some skills can crit, though, and some skills (Mind Wrack) have a much higher critical multiplier (233%). All skills, even healing, are increased by bonus damage. Commando skills "taunt" better if they do more damage, too.

Here's how Mind Wrack would look if it did 100 damage base and was subjected to %Crit and +Damage



10% 10%
Base CRIT DAM
Shots 100 100 100
Damage 100 100 110
Hit 100% 100% 100%
Crit 10% 20% 10%
Normal Mult 100% 100% 100%
rit Mult 233% 233% 233%
Shots Landed 100 100 100
Normal Shots 90 80 90
Crit Shots 10 20 10
Normal Dam 9000 8000 9900
Crit Dam 2330 4660 2563
Total Dam 11330 12660 12463
Dam Per Shot 113.3 126.6 124.63


Engineer's Verdict: Damage > %Hit > %Crit
Commando's Verdict: Damage > %Hit & %Crit
Operative's Verdict: %Crit > %Damage > %Hit

Final Thoughts:

If choosing between %Hit and %Crit, look at a few things...

1. What is your playstyle? If you are an Operative but do not spam Mind Wrack, maximizing %Hit would work better than adding more %Crit. If you are an Empath, and the skills you use don't crit (DOTs, heals), extra damage from your auto-attack may be icing-on-the-cake.
2. What are your options? Do you have to choose between the two, or are both on the weapon/armor you want to use?
3. What is your preference? Do you prefer a steady stream of damage, or do you like the idea of doing less damage but sometimes landing an extra critical?

Open Questions:
1. What happens when %Hit > 100%?
2. Can %Hit counteract %Dodge?

[Ellyidol]

Awesome! I've been very interested in findings like these, especially with my Commando.

If I may, I have a few questions or requests since you seem very capable in doing these types of calculations:

1. Is it possible to see the DPS curve? Overall, Hit > Crit in damage, but is it possible that Crit > Hit in terms of spike DPS? Or does it even out?

2. Can you do one for damage as well? Lately, I've noticed that Damage > Crit, mainly because the 5 damage is consistent and pure versus a chancy crit.

Still implant questions, btw.

Thank you again! :)

[CanonicalKoi]

I'll let the math-y people work on the math. It seems like common sense-wise, hit would be better; after all, if you don't hit, crit never enters into it. So (feeling my way along thru the math in defiance of my intro), if, say, I have a Hit% of 25 and a Crit of 25, couldn't only 25 hits out of 100 hit at all, with roughly 6 of those hits being critical ((100/4)/4)? Or is my math totally off (as usual)? Or is Crit totally independent of Hit%, so at 25 and 25, you'd hit a quarter of the time and a quarter of your hits could be critical?

Next time I'm up on Rauen, I'll throw on the Plat armor--it takes my Hit% to 102% and see if any misses are recorded at all.

[IBNobody]

Awesome! I've been very interested in findings like these, especially with my Commando.

If I may, I have a few questions or requests since you seem very capable in doing these types of calculations:

1. Is it possible to see the DPS curve? Overall, Hit > Crit in damage, but is it possible that Crit > Hit in terms of spike DPS? Or does it even out?

2. Can you do one for damage as well? Lately, I've noticed that Damage > Crit, mainly because the 5 damage is consistent and pure versus a chancy crit.

Still implant questions, btw.

Thank you again! :)

In all truth, there's no point in looking at burst damage, because your attacks must hit before they can crit.

If you were lucky, you could theoretically fight a battle where you never missed and always scored a critical. That'd be burst, right? (If you fought said battle, you should play the lottery.)

As far as curves go, these are pretty linear functions. For Auto Attack & Implants, here's how they stack up:



5% 5% +5 5% 5% +5
Base CRIT HIT DAM Base CRIT HIT DAM
Shots 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Damage 50 50 50 55 100 100 100 105
Hit 75% 75% 80% 75% 75% 75% 80% 75%
Crit 10% 15% 10% 10% 10% 15% 10% 10%
Normal Mult 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Crit Mult 133% 133% 133% 133% 133% 133% 133% 133%
Shots Landed 75 75 80 75 75 75 80 75
Normal Shots 67.5 63.75 72 67.5 67.5 63.75 72 67.5
Crit Shots 7.5 11.25 8 7.5 7.5 11.25 8 7.5
Normal Dam 3375 3187.5 3600 3712.5 6750 6375 7200 7087.5
Crit Dam 498.75 748.125 532 548.625 997.5 1496.25 1064 1047.375
Total Dam 3873.75 3935.63 4132.00 4261.13 7747.50 7871.25 8264.00 8134.88
Dam Per Shot 38.74 39.36 41.32 42.61 77.48 78.71 82.64 81.35


Summary: What this tells you is that since %Hit scales with your level, it's a better long-term choice than +5 DAM. The Damage implant will give you more bang-for-your-buck at low levels, though.

This is just auto-attack damage, too. The +DAM implants really shine when adding to healing/damage skills.

[IBNobody]

I'll let the math-y people work on the math. It seems like common sense-wise, hit would be better; after all, if you don't hit, crit never enters into it. So (feeling my way along thru the math in defiance of my intro), if, say, I have a Hit% of 25 and a Crit of 25, couldn't only 25 hits out of 100 hit at all, with roughly 6 of those hits being critical ((100/4)/4)? Or is my math totally off (as usual)? Or is Crit totally independent of Hit%, so at 25 and 25, you'd hit a quarter of the time and a quarter of your hits could be critical?

Next time I'm up on Rauen, I'll throw on the Plat armor--it takes my Hit% to 102% and see if any misses are recorded at all.

It is indeed common sense... However, it's not easy to put things in perspective.

May I suggest trying to fight Klaatu, the first boss in Dynastar? He appears to be able to dodge my Mind Wrack, he has plenty of health, and he does little damage.

[Silentarrow]

You said that a operative who doesn't spam Mindwreck is better off using the hit% implant over the crit inplant. I disagree, Operatives generally have 98-100 hit % at level 30, so a 10% boost won't do much if anything.

1. It has been proven that when a person has 100+ hit% they have a slight (very slight! :)) chance of missing, weird right!
2. From my experience, hit% can't counteract dodge.

[IBNobody]

You said that a operative who doesn't spam Mindwreck is better off using the hit% implant over the crit inplant. I disagree, Operatives generally have 98-100 hit % at level 30, so a 10% boost won't do much if anything.

1. It has been proven that when a person has 100+ hit% they have a slight (very slight! :)) chance of missing, weird right!
2. From my experience, hit% can't counteract dodge.

You're right... I left off the caveat that if you get 100% hit, adding more won't help with damage.

[CanonicalKoi]

It is indeed common sense... However, it's not easy to put things in perspective.

May I suggest trying to fight Klaatu, the first boss in Dynastar? He appears to be able to dodge my Mind Wrack, he has plenty of health, and he does little damage.

I'll give him shot (or 12) tomorrow morning. :) In the interest of full disclosure, the implant I have on Rauen is the +50 armor one.

[kamikazees]

If we had an implant that could either add 10% Hit, 10% Crit, or +10 (10% of 100) damage, which would give us more damage?
Great post! But there are two assumptions made that will affect your data if they are not correct: (1) inceasing Hit by x% actually makes the character land x% more hits; and (2) a character can do 100 damage in a single attack/shot.

As for (1), I am not sure it is true, especially if there is an effective hit cap. In fact, I am not sure a level 30 character "misses" at all using auto attacks on normal enemies in Sloucho, regardless of hit %. Case in point, I have been trying to record hits vs. misses with different hit %s (once again on the engineer in Wasted). Even with 70% hit, I cannot get Gadget to "miss" this enemy with auto attacks (have not tried skills yet). I do see him dodge, and I can also see when he misses Gadget. But every time she attacks numbers float over his head. I have gotten to where I can time pain such that he does not attack her back (only heals himself between pain cycles), and I still do not see her "miss". But even if I am wrong (maybe my eyes were glazed over?), and she is missing some, there's no way she is missing anywhere near 30% of the time (like we would expect her to do with only 70% hit). As a result, I think there are other factors at play for actual Hit%, like maybe player level vs. enemy level.

As for (2), Hit is better at higher damage ranges... but who hits for 100 damage? Using the Incerator and Shield in full Atomite armor, for example, Gadget does 52-78 damage, or 65 average. In that instance, +10 Damage > 10% Hit under these calculations. In fact, +10 Damage is better than 10% Hit until the breaking point, which is about 75 damage under this scenario. Anything above 75 damage makes 10% Hit better than +10 Damage. But below that, Damage is better. When a character does that much Damage, people have pointed out that many times their hit is already near or at 100%.

[krazii]

As a result, I think there are other factors at play for actual Hit%, like maybe player level vs. enemy level.


I think that is a very astute observation and affects not only hit, but damage done also as well as the damage a mob does to you and it's hit %.

[IBNobody]

Great post! But there are two assumptions made that will affect your data if they are not correct: (1) inceasing Hit by x% actually makes the character land x% more hits; and (2) a character can do 100 damage in a single attack/shot.

As for (1), I am not sure it is true, especially if there is an effective hit cap. In fact, I am not sure a level 30 character "misses" at all using auto attacks on normal enemies in Sloucho, regardless of hit %. Case in point, I have been trying to record hits vs. misses with different hit %s (once again on the engineer in Wasted). Even with 70% hit, I cannot get Gadget to "miss" this enemy with auto attacks (have not tried skills yet). I do see him dodge, and I can also see when he misses Gadget. But every time she attacks numbers float over his head. I have gotten to where I can time pain such that he does not attack her back (only heals himself between pain cycles), and I still do not see her "miss". But even if I am wrong (maybe my eyes were glazed over?), and she is missing some, there's no way she is missing anywhere near 30% of the time (like we would expect her to do with only 70% hit). As a result, I think there are other factors at play for actual Hit%, like maybe player level vs. enemy level.

When I first wrote this up, I went to Dynastar to verify that skills missed. They didn't appear to. It was very obvious that I had a 1:1 hit ratio.

I went to Dynastar again, and verified auto-attacking. I'm not sure player misses are registering correctly.

On one hand, it appeared that I always killed enemies in 2 shots. On the other hand, there were a few enemies that took 4 shots and didn't register a dodge. The only verified miss I saw was when shooting a barrel. This miss came up on the barrel and not on my character. I saw that the "miss" appeared over the barrel and not my head.

I'll suicide my lv20 op against Uncharted Ruins mobs tonight and see what happens.

I am going to file a bug with Flip about where the "miss" pops up. If "dodge" pops up above our heads, misses should too.


As for (2), Hit is better at higher damage ranges... but who hits for 100 damage? Using the Incerator and Shield in full Atomite armor, for example, Gadget does 52-78 damage, or 65 average. In that instance, +10 Damage > 10% Hit under these calculations. In fact, +10 Damage is better than 10% Hit until the breaking point, which is about 75 damage under this scenario. Anything above 75 damage makes 10% Hit better than +10 Damage. But below that, Damage is better. When a character does that much Damage, people have pointed out that many times their hit is already near or at 100%.

I used 100 because it looked nice, but I also showed how the implants looked at an average of 50 damage.

[CanonicalKoi]

I'm about to run a couple chars against Clatuu (I think that's how it's spelled in game and a big shout-out to the Devs for being sci-fi geeks--"Gort, klaatu barada nikto"). I'll see what I get with a low-level Op with, I think, 1 dodge and a tiny hit% and I'll also check with Rauen with 99% and 102% hit% depending on the armor set-up. Just need to finish editing a movie clip or three.

[CanonicalKoi]

In fact, I am not sure a level 30 character "misses" at all using auto attacks on normal enemies in Sloucho, regardless of hit %.

No, a level 30 can still miss in Slouch-O. I just ran Rauen through "Hall of Films"--one full run and one partial to verify. I swapped out armor to bring me below 100% Hit--95%, to be exact. During the full run, I missed twice. During the partial run, missed twice again.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll81/Moorit/Missed.png


Oddly, with 3% dodge, I dodged the same number of times I missed. :/ This was all straight "auto-pilot", no skills. My apologies for the less than stellar pic. The "Miss" is mine, though, and not the guy I'm shooting's in spite of it being hard to see in the pic. Too slow on the trigger to get any of the shots were the target was farther away and it was more obvious that the miss was mine. :( Tried another run with Hit% at 103 and had no misses. I'll try a few more runs with the higher Hit% and see what I get a little later.

ETA: Huh. One thing I *am* noticing is that I'm not showing as making any damage on the target a fair portion of the time--as in I'm shooting away, their life-bar is falling and the only feedback I'm getting is "2c XP" once they die. I noticed it happening frequently when I tried this on my level 9 Op in Red Sun. Enemies dying, but not getting any damage indicators other than them dying and me getting credits and/or XP. :/