New items for all besides just endgame?

[CHINDUSTER]

I've been wondering if the other levels could be shown some love? Excluding vanities, it seems only endgame and near endgame have been recieving new items to use. Instead of making items that the majority of endgame will not even equip,(forgotten) how about creating items for all levels like the old winter events? Other levels aren't dead yet, some invigoration will surely keep them alive. :eagerness:

[Congeniality]

I say get rid of all holiday items or nerf them so old play styles like the copperhead bear and lv 30 shivering warbird stood a chance. I miss that old stuff.

[Vigilante]

I've been wondering if the other levels could be shown some love? Excluding vanities, it seems only endgame and near endgame have been recieving new items to use. Instead of making items that the majority of endgame will not even equip,(forgotten) how about creating items for all levels like the old winter events? Other levels aren't dead yet, some invigoration will surely keep them alive. :eagerness:

MHMMMMMMM. This isn't a bad idea at all.

[Graveyard]

I say get rid of all holiday items or nerf them so old play styles like the copperhead bear and lv 30 shivering warbird stood a chance. I miss that old stuff.

It would give a reason for players to farm older maps also

[Buchmeister]

I've been wondering if the other levels could be shown some love? Excluding vanities, it seems only endgame and near endgame have been recieving new items to use. Instead of making items that the majority of endgame will not even equip,(forgotten) how about creating items for all levels like the old winter events? Other levels aren't dead yet, some invigoration will surely keep them alive. :eagerness:

It's called an expansion for a reason, although I like the idea that if STS makes something new, they should make it accessible to lower levels as well instead of only endgame (like the halloween gear even though it's crap).

[Cinco]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?

[XghostzX]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?

What they mean is that you guys should make a 5pc elite set for endgame items with that elite warband ring :)

[Cinco]

Ah! Okay. Perfect.

[MrClifford]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?
I PvP 15-25 and have to say on the 15/20 side of things, there are so many variations which is nice. Unlike end game where you have 1 set does all, lower levels it's more I need 6 different weapons to counter other people, I need these armours for health regen etc. It's the most skill based level of them all.

However it would be nice to be able to have a few more armours for twinks to mix it all up a bit more, everyone is Dex. Dex mages, Dex bears, even Dex rhinos (these suck vs str rhinos). Dex is so important because of the high hit % which is the most vital part of twink at the mo, so it would be great to have some dodge armours/weapons as this might make foxes viable at lower levels eg 16 (minimum for fox is atm 22 for rage tonic to be viable) and could open up birds a bit more. Birds were good pre nerf, now a 15 mage will always win vs a 16 bird, and bears will mostly win unless they are unskilled

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[ababioka]

Ah! Okay. Perfect.
No. Elites deserve to stay at high levels, or for low level make pinks for looks soley.

[Buchmeister]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?

Keep elites at high level. And in my entire 15-22 pvp career I've never once seen a legitimate pvper use the halloween gear. If there is going to be new low lvl items, make them have a big impact on the low lvl game.

[TruePlayer]

Just stop being lazy and lvl yourself up to endgame. Updates means new items for new cap not new items for old cap. I dont get why you asking for cinco to make new items for low lvl. When they need players to try lvl up to endgame.

[Boiled_35]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?

Low level elite weapons actually sounds pretty cool lol

[Congeniality]

Low level elite weapons actually sounds pretty cool lol

Low level elite weapons actually sounds pretty cringe* lol

[Boiled_35]

Low level elite weapons actually sounds pretty cringe* lol

Lol how so


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[Congeniality]

Lol how so

Lol how not

[Boiled_35]

Lol how not

......lol no comment.


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[Buchmeister]

Low level elite weapons actually sounds pretty cool lol

I'd only like them if they had really fun and silly procs, and not just for stats. Idk, something about smacking your enemies with a giant fish just seems so right to me.

[CHINDUSTER]

Low level elite weapons sound like the right thing.

Or should the low level items be crap?

What are you actually saying?

You yourself said these new elite items would not be comparable to the current elite sets, and have a sole purpose of their own (fun?). Seeing how the older event items focus on nearly the same concept, why not widen the level span of these items for others to enjoy? This will allow for more income as well as entertainment for all levels.

Level two pinks exist, so I believe level ten or so elites wouldn't be too far-fetched. As far as stats go, the care for them is minimal, making the weapons on par with the older items would be fine, however unique procs for the items would be the ideal in that case. (ESB, EWT, EMS? Maybe I'm asking for too much)

[CHINDUSTER]

No. Elites deserve to stay at high levels, or for low level make pinks for looks soley.
Why is that? Is there some hidden rule that elites must be high level? From what I recall, the challenge of farming an elite is equally hard regardless of level.


Just stop being lazy and lvl yourself up to endgame. Updates means new items for new cap not new items for old cap. I dont get why you asking for cinco to make new items for low lvl. When they need players to try lvl up to endgame.

I have an 80 Bear with an Arzac and Warat set. I've pvped in every known level bracket, and even made some myself. I won a STS hosted tournament and created one of the most infamous guilds in my 6 years of playing PL. What have you done?

So please, before you say "just stop being lazy", learn who you are talking to. If anything, I've invested too much precious time in PL. :)

As for your disagreement, if you read my posts you will understand why I asked Cinco to make items for the other levels. Why neglect the majority? (Levels 1-71)

[Xyzther]

Could bring back forgotten event (similar to the old one in the sense of literally every level could get a drop unique to that level) but the drops being new items of course. These new drops don't necessarily have to be renamed/recolored forgotten items, then can be recolored anything (scarab bows for example). Rarity is rare-elite for all items for all levels. The stats for the pinks will be slightly worse than the current forgotten stats so the forgotten items still retain some value, but the new elite items will have superior stats to the pink forgotten items though. To prevent forgotten from crashing too much just simply make the elite items extremely rare to the point they will be worth more than the current forgotten items anyway. Could also bring recolored sword/wand with same comparison to paw/reaper blade, pink paw/reaper being better than new pink item but the new elite item being better than pink paw/reaper

Edit: Forgot to mention this... In the old forgotten event, the endgame forgotten weapons were inferior to the endgame sets. This will still be the case, arzac/magor/warat all having way better stats than the new items at level 80. At level 80/75 the items could have similar stats to the level 80/75 forgotten items that sts released for halloween.

[Burningdex]

It's fine how it is, there is enough room for variation at every level, and endgame should always receive the most updates as it is a goal for casual players to reach (max level).

Don't feel like arguing, you're all entitled to your own opinions, just keep in mind, not all of our random requests are going to be implemented due to a sudden spree of updates, StG can only do so much.

[Priorema]

If theres going to be new items, dont make em buyable with plats, like endgame magor and others. Us f2p players want to enjoy pvp either without spending money. On my opinion endgame is already ripped by buyers, yah there's some playere who are rich enough to buy sets without $$$, so if new items will be available, dont make em purshacable with plats, let everyone enjoy the pvp and work hard to be success in pvp, COZ WE WANY FAIR PVP yea thx

[CHINDUSTER]

It's fine how it is, there is enough room for variation at every level, and endgame should always receive the most updates as it is a goal for casual players to reach (max level).

Don't feel like arguing, you're all entitled to your own opinions, just keep in mind, not all of our random requests are going to be implemented due to a sudden spree of updates, StG can only do so much.

Since when was hitting max the only goal for casual players? When I started the game as a "casual" player my goal at the time was to buy a Lv10 Purp SBL and twink. To this day, I continue twinking and see no variation in 80% of the levels. Sadly, the variation that is to be seen is because another 10-20% are too poor to afford the newer gears.

With the flucuation of items through updates I wonder how you consider this a "random request". I (as well as others) asked for just a share of the glory endgame is getting, a single event, considering what they're about to get is practically useless for serious PvP, as well as PvE, and is purely for fun (What else is purely for fun? Twink levels:cheerful:). Judging by your comment I believe you haven't read much of what I've said, the OP.

[Congeniality]

Why is that? Is there some hidden rule that elites must be high level? From what I recall, the challenge of farming an elite is equally hard regardless of level.

Because people at endgame are the best players. They have spent the time to level up, get the most expensive gear, etc. Having the focus taken away from the most elite players would be lame. Lower level PvPers simply don't have as much skill. Having half your damage come from autos and using 5 skills doesn't seem like a competition of skill to me, just a competition of ping and how fast you can spam.

[Justg]

Cleaned it up a bit. You folks should be nice to each other.

[Etarbitrev]

Cleaned it up a bit. You folks should be nice to each other.
Is pl still down & out in terms of items & expansions etc? I just wanted a straight answer and who better person to ask :D p.s do you still have the android vanities? Maybe a quick show sometime? ;D

[Justg]

Is pl still down & out in terms of items & expansions etc? I just wanted a straight answer and who better person to ask :D p.s do you still have the android vanities? Maybe a quick show sometime? ;D

Winter is Coming (to PL). We'll post a preview soon.

[Etarbitrev]

Lol i see what you did there XD nice reference ;)

[CHINDUSTER]

Because people at endgame are the best players. They have spent the time to level up, get the most expensive gear, etc. Having the focus taken away from the most elite players would be lame. Lower level PvPers simply don't have as much skill. Having half your damage come from autos and using 5 skills doesn't seem like a competition of skill to me, just a competition of ping and how fast you can spam.

I had to read your comment about five times before I processed it correctly, and in those five times I couldn't find anything relevant to my standing.

However, I'll reply:
1. There is no focus being "taken away" from higher level players.
2. Lower level players (twinks) would most definetly beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)
3. You say 5 skills, yet the only level I can think of with 5 skills would be 15 and below? What about the levels that use 8-12 skills? That's the same amount of skills that endgame players use.

Truthfully, your argument was poorly made. At every level, majority of the damage is done by Auto Attacks. At every level, ping is an important factor. At every level, you spam skills in hopes they work the way you intend them to.

If anything, endgame can be called the easiest level because the needed brain power there is miniscule. No one can miss, there's more dodge, more damage, and more crit, meaning whatever you do hardly matters, so long as it does damage and isn't dodged.

[CHINDUSTER]

Winter is Coming (to PL). We'll post a preview soon.

Yes please. Much appreciated.

[Visibly]

Lol so was vendor removed or na

[Xyzther]

I had to read your comment about five times before I processed it correctly, and in those five times I couldn't find anything relevant to my standing.

However, I'll reply:
1. There is no focus being "taken away" from higher level players.
2. Lower level players (twinks) would most definetly beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)
3. You say 5 skills, yet the only level I can think of with 5 skills would be 15 and below? What about the levels that use 8-12 skills? That's the same amount of skills that endgame players use.

Truthfully, your argument was poorly made. At every level, majority of the damage is done by Auto Attacks. At every level, ping is an important factor. At every level, you spam skills in hopes they work the way you intend them to.

If anything, endgame can be called the easiest level because the needed brain power there is miniscule. No one can miss, there's more dodge, more damage, and more crit, meaning whatever you do hardly matters, so long as it does damage and isn't dodged.

This is pretty much why I don't pvp anymore, a lot of it is luck based nowadays. Sure there's still some skill involved, but it really does come down to the dodges and hits. You can have the best strategy and skill in the game and still lose to the worst player in the game if they dodge all of your attacks and you don't dodge any of theirs. When I pvped a fair bit in 76 cap my fights would be pretty inconsistent. Sometimes you kill them 5 times in a row because you get lucky/they get unlucky, but sometimes you can lose 5 times in a row because it's the other way around. Long story short, I agree endgame is one of the easier stages of the game to pvp. I don't consider myself one of the best pvpers, but I'm definitely not a bad one. I was able to stand toe to toe with pretty much everyone (except a few savage bears that dodged like 100% of the time lol) so I'd think I have some credibility. Never really had an organized 1v1 to 10 except once with TLA where he won 10-9, but I've done plenty of normal 1v1s in standard pvp maps.

[Waug]

I had to read your comment about five times before I processed it correctly, and in those five times I couldn't find anything relevant to my standing.

However, I'll reply:
1. There is no focus being "taken away" from higher level players.
2. Lower level players (twinks) would most definetly beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)
3. You say 5 skills, yet the only level I can think of with 5 skills would be 15 and below? What about the levels that use 8-12 skills? That's the same amount of skills that endgame players use.

Truthfully, your argument was poorly made. At every level, majority of the damage is done by Auto Attacks. At every level, ping is an important factor. At every level, you spam skills in hopes they work the way you intend them to.

If anything, endgame can be called the easiest level because the needed brain power there is miniscule. No one can miss, there's more dodge, more damage, and more crit, meaning whatever you do hardly matters, so long as it does damage and isn't dodged.


At every level, majority of the damage is done by Auto Attacks
This is one of the most wrong statement I've heard over a while, nothing personal, Just ur statement buddy. Auto damage is actually hughly less than the overall skill damage from somewhat mid level to endgame atleast, even though some dex bears rely on feeding their auto damage with dps in the period of high damage buff, so exploitation are always there even in the twink levels & based on op-ness, not just in endgame.



If anything, endgame can be called the easiest level because the needed brain power there is miniscule. No one can miss, there's more dodge, more damage, and more crit, meaning whatever you do hardly matters, so long as it does damage and isn't dodged.

So, sitting with a narrowed build & combo and delivering that each and every time need too much brain power? if you think, you'll find that rather endgame changes and provide better field to play with ur tactics and build other than ofc all the exploiters out there rely on op classes and consider their op-ness as skill. It's true that endgame is unbalanced but it's also true twinks levels aren't also same and weak class is weaker now. I'm not favouring dodge here, dodge nerf is pretty much required and steps to counter endgame dis balance.

"Lower level players (twinks) would most definetly beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)" & "meaning whatever you do hardly matters (in endgame)"

These logics clearly clashing with each other meaning contradiction, if in endgame "whatever you do hardly matters" then how you would be able to "beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)"

Actually you should have refrained from imagining a clash between twinks and endgamers, if you saying this then let me say, in the long term, endgame PvPers have been the most experienced & dedicated players and they kept fighting with old players & most experienced PvPers, twinking levels have been easier to get into, that's the reason it had better flow of new comers. When you play as twink you get better chance to fight with new players and it has been always like that, care I said in long term. NOT ONLY THAT pretty lately I've watched so many twink mages started to do endgame because endgame got highly privileged for mages & few good ones left because it's like that, it further shows twinking is somewhat more opportunistic (I'm not saying it to all, there are many dedicated) don't except challenge rather find a twinking level having an edge of your class and suit.

[CHINDUSTER]

This is one of the most wrong statement I've heard over a while, nothing personal, Just ur statement buddy. Auto damage is actually hughly less than the overall skill damage from somewhat mid level to endgame atleast, even though some dex bears rely feeding their auto damage with dps in the period of high damage buff, so exploitation are always there even in the twink levels & based on op-ness, not just in endgame.




So, sitting with a narrowed build & combo and delivering that each and every time need too much brain power? if you think, you'll find that rather endgame changes and provide better field to play with ur tactics and build other than ofc all the exploiters out there rely on op classes and consider their op-ness as skill. It's true that endgame is unbalanced but it's also true twinks levels aren't also same and weak class is weaker now. I'm not favouring dodge here, dodge nerf is pretty much required and steps to counter endgame dis balance.

"Lower level players (twinks) would most definetly beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)" & "meaning whatever you do hardly matters (in endgame)"

These logics clearly clashing with each other meaning contradiction, if in endgame "whatever you do hardly matters" then how you would be able to "beat majority of the "elite" players I've encountered at endgame if they decided to do endgame. (You may play me as proof?)"

Actually you should have refrained from imagining a clash between twinks and endgamers, if you saying this then let me say, in the long term, endgame PvPers have been the most experienced & dedicated players and they kept fighting with old players & most experienced PvPers, twinking levels have been easier to get into, that's the reason it had better flow of new comers. When you play as twink you get better chance to fight with new players and it has been always like that, care I said in long term. NOT ONLY THAT pretty lately I've watched so many twink mages started to do endgame because endgame got highly privileged for mages & few good ones left because it's like that, it further shows twinking is somewhat more opportunistic (I'm not saying it to all, there are many dedicated) don't except challenge rather find a twinking level having an edge of your class and suit.

Some of what you said was incomprehensible, and this argument is somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand.

However I'll say this:
I would be able to beat them because they're noobs. Hence my quotes on the word "elite". Majority of endgame players are noobs given sets by means of hardcore merching/farming or charity from friends which are both irrelevant to actual PvP skill.

Endgame became unbalanced when those stat broken sets were introduced, at that same moment it became a "spam buttons, and pray they hit" level. These kinds of levels, and gameplay take the least amount of skill. If people believed savage bear/mage was bad in the previous cap, imagine how they feel now.

I see you said something about new players joining twink levels solely because they stand a chance? They do not stand a chance at all against good veteran players, however they can atleast put up a fight because the gear is equivalent and not broken. Endgame is entirely different , the rich prosper, if you pay 40m+ for a set you already have a large stat advantage and can beat anyone who has a worse set than you regardless of skill. You can be beat by these said players who spent more time merching in Balefort than in actual PvP, which is quite sad. The funny part is I disregarded the fact that you could simply buy an elite set for $100. With $100 you're already better than 50-70% of endgame.

[Waug]

Some of what you said was incomprehensible, and this argument is somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand.

However I'll say this:
I would be able to beat them because they're noobs. Hence my quotes on the word "elite". Majority of endgame players are noobs given sets by means of hardcore merching/farming or charity from friends which are both irrelevant to actual PvP skill.

Endgame became unbalanced when those stat broken sets were introduced, at that same moment it became a "spam buttons, and pray they hit" level. These kinds of levels, and gameplay take the least amount of skill. If people believed savage bear/mage was bad in the previous cap, imagine how they feel now.

I see you said something about new players joining twink levels solely because they stand a chance? They do not stand a chance at all against good veteran players, however they can atleast put up a fight because the gear is equivalent and not broken. Endgame is entirely different , the rich prosper, if you pay 40m+ for a set you already have a large stat advantage and can beat anyone who has a worse set than you regardless of skill. You can be beat by these said players who spent more time merching in Balefort than in actual PvP, which is quite sad. The funny part is I disregarded the fact that you could simply buy an elite set for $100. With $100 you're already better than 50-70% of endgame.
Firstly, Most of the things are understandable if you read carefully, I bet. you just skipped the solid points.

So, all you wanna say that - Majority of endgamers are noobs and you u can beat those noobs, nice. This is what happens when someone twink visit endgame and starts to draw conclusions and propose their veteran report on endgame, It's kinda funny, I keep watching in game, peps calling others new gen the other one say hey I'm playing for 4-5 years now. The fun part is Pocket Legends actually has an solid old persistent player base.

The sets were not mostly broken, endgame started to loose balance because it's progress and some bad nerfing decisions. I'll explain a bit, There are so many stats that has a cap for ex - Dodge, hit, miss, crit etc and devs kept adding these things through sets and stats as they always did. For ex if dodge closing to 100 then guess what player start to dodge mostly. But when damage increased it's nothing wrong because armor can counter that. All this had to happen by default unless they decided to stop adding these crucial stats, I personally call this the biggest mistake made by STS in term of PvP & I kinda foretold this way back and Techno email told us that she won't touch this 'big nob'.

Bad nerfing was there. When elite 2H weapons were introduced at L76 cap only 2H phoenix bow was usable (There are many reasons behind, I'm not going into it) guess what they nerfed the bird class. OMG if elite bow was responsible because mage and bear could not use their 2H elites then nerf the elite bow, of course if one class can use the op elite then he will be OP by default but they nerfed bird what a logic, OMG they even nerfed the ROOTs and made the Dodge it self OP-er & hampered twink levels too. Because that elite bow was not to stay, boom it's gone birds gone down to drain as it had to happen.

Stop telling the fact that, with 100$ someone get pro or something, so many long term non pvpers bought sets ask em to pvp they'll rage quit area within some moments. I don't get it, peps talk about something that they don't have much experience with it.

[CHINDUSTER]

Firstly, Most of the things are understandable if you read carefully, I bet. you just skipped the solid points.

So, all you wanna say that - Majority of endgamers are noobs and you u can beat those noobs, nice. This is what happens when someone twink visit endgame and starts to draw conclusions and propose their veteran report on endgame, It's kinda funny, I keep watching in game, peps calling others new gen the other one say hey I'm playing for 4-5 years now. The fun part is Pocket Legends actually has an solid old persistent player base.

The sets were not mostly broken, endgame started to loose balance because it's progress and some bad nerfing decisions. I'll explain a bit, There are so many stats that has a cap for ex - Dodge, hit, miss, crit etc and devs kept adding these things through sets and stats as they always did. For ex if dodge closing to 100 then guess what player start to dodge mostly. But when damage increased it's nothing wrong because armor can counter that. All this had to happen by default unless they decided to stop adding these crucial stats, I personally call this the biggest mistake made by STS in term of PvP & I kinda foretold this way back and Techno email told us that she won't touch this 'big nob'.

Bad nerfing was there. When elite 2H weapons were introduced at L76 cap only 2H phoenix bow was usable (There are many reasons behind, I'm not going into it) guess what they nerfed the bird class. OMG if elite bow was responsible because mage and bear could not use their 2H elites then nerf the elite bow, of course if one class can use the op elite then he will be OP by default but they nerfed bird what a logic, OMG they even nerfed the ROOTs and made the Dodge it self OP-er & hampered twink levels too. Because that elite bow was not to stay, boom it's gone birds gone down to drain as it had to happen.

Stop telling the fact that, with 100$ someone get pro or something, so many long term non pvpers bought sets ask em to pvp they'll rage quit area within some moments. I don't get it, peps talk about something that they don't have much experience with it.

Like I said in my other reply, some of what you said is incomprehensible. Seeing how this is off topic, none of what you post has "solid points". In fact, even if endgame statistics were the topic, I'd still believe you'd have no "solid points".

It'd also be nice if you could sum up your post, tl;dr 's are very optimal as you add many un-needed details. In all your paragraphs I've only seen two things that relate to anything I've said, 1. me "lacking experience", and 2. with $100 someone cannot be good at endgame.

1: I have a level 80 bear with 50k kills in total. He has an Arzac Set, as well as an Warat set. I believe I'm very experienced seeing how you're just another Dex Bird who cannot muster a positive KD even if he was given frees for a year. You're about 50k deaths negative, yes?

Experience with these sets? These sets have not even been in use for a year, speaking of "experience" as if they're old is foolish.

2: Endgame became pay to win as soon as they introduced that vendor. With $100 any new player with some type of brain for PvP can beat a person using Zam/ whatever the rest of the worse sets are called. If you deny that, then you're very hyponitized on one thought of endgame. That one thought is, "endgame takes skill", which it doesn't anymore. If it does as you believe, then the skill compared to 77 and 80 have atleast a 90% gap.

[CHINDUSTER]

Let us keep this on topic, if you'd like to reply I will simply make another thread where we can discuss this.

[Waug]

.....I have a level 80 bear with 50k kills in total. ............ "endgame takes skill", which it doesn't anymore. If it does as you believe, then the skill compared to 77 and 80 have atleast a 90% gap.

Oh yeah, this finished the circle, I was waiting for it. You got caught here. Before you blame that you don't understand this, no need to, just read below.


Only a bear who was super OP at L77 than any other class, thinks that the skill compared to 77 and 80 have atleast a 90% gap. This has CLEARLY proved you stand. You're not OP anymore because Mages are OP, even though bear has chance aganist mages at L80 but at Level 77 cap, it was super hard for an int mage to beat bears. If we talk about endgame pvp disbalance then anyone who have in-depth knowledge and experience knows that endgame pvp dis balance started way back, not after L77 mostly, not only that enormous threads have been created, and enormous times it has been discussed.

This simply proved that whatever you called "skill" actually you were refering to your op-ness, you now think that endgame is "skillless" because at endgame you're not super OP anymore and can't "2 hit kill int mages". Also guessing you scored your 50k at that time mostly, just guess. Also guessing after that OP phase you gone back to twinking, that's what I saiid, twinkers find a op level or atleast where they have some edge over other classes (again not all, there are dedicated ones too)

Now, Once you said, hard core farming merching and getting rich and then buying high valued set has nothing to do with PvP skill, which is true, now can you please tell me that if that's not skill then does it really matter that someone get set by spending 50m+ (back then) or spending 20m+ / 100$ (now) has anything to do with PvP skill? So why are you calling that "Endgame became pay to win" AS LONG AS gold is another way to get that, this is not pay to win atall.

I talked about PvP disbalance to show that it's NOT mostly because sets stat broken as you said, so it was not "off topic" to ur post.

[CHINDUSTER]

Oh yeah, this finished the circle, I was waiting for it. You got caught here. Before you blame that you don't understand this, no need to, just read below.


Only a bear who was super OP at L77 than any other class, thinks that the skill compared to 77 and 80 have atleast a 90% gap. This has CLEARLY proved you stand. You're not OP anymore because Mages are OP, even though bear has chance aganist mages at L80 but at Level 77 cap, it was super hard for an int mage to beat bears. If we talk about endgame pvp disbalance then anyone who have in-depth knowledge and experience knows that endgame pvp dis balance started way back, not after L77 mostly, not only that enormous threads have been created, and enormous times it has been discussed.

This simply proved that whatever you called "skill" actually you were refering to your op-ness, you now think that endgame is "skillless" because at endgame you're not super OP anymore and can't "2 hit kill int mages". Also guessing you scored your 50k at that time mostly, just guess. Also guessing after that OP phase you gone back to twinking, that's what I saiid, twinkers find a op level or atleast where they have some edge over other classes (again not all, there are dedicated ones too)

Now, Once you said, hard core farming merching and getting rich and then buying high valued set has nothing to do with PvP skill, which is true, now can you please tell me that if that's not skill then does it really matter that someone get set by spending 50m+ (back then) or spending 20m+ / 100$ (now) has anything to do with PvP skill? So why are you calling that "Endgame became pay to win" AS LONG AS gold is another way to get that, this is not pay to win atall.

I talked about PvP disbalance to show that it's NOT mostly because sets stat broken as you said, so it was not "off topic" to ur post.

The sad part is, all you've talked about is mages and bears. Birds, foxes, and rhinos have completely left the spiral because they stand no chance. This is why endgame is skill-less, this is why the skill is a 90% differential compared to 75-77, because unless those characters get lucky, they will not win.

As a new player, reaching 40m isn't an easy task. I suppose you've had money for so long you've forgotten the struggle to get it. Months, or even a year of merching and farming ingame, compared to buying OP sets instantly with $100 of real life currency. This is the definition of pay to win.

The topic is other levels getting a share of the attention endgame has been, not "pvp disbalance".

- Was banned for 3 days, here's your reply.

[Waug]

I can guess lol, y u were banned, but that's not our topic.

You asked y I didn't talk about bird, fox ... And the same time, you reminding me about this thread not being PvP disbalance, the answer is hidden within, lol because I've talked things which is closely relate to your comments.

But let me tell you, I talked about bird and you marked it as 'non topic' and for rhino n fox, they added later and at the phase when main old 3 classes ain't blanaced it would be worthless to ask it even, but nothing wrong it doing it though, u can raise the issue.

The real funny fact is when special elites were 20m+ and newly introduced were much more than that, nobody complained it, never said, it's too much, did u? Now after what you called pay to win actually lower that price, you should be happy. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN U AND ME is that you feeling it like - why a new one can get such set spending real money, kinda jealous.

My perspective always been, I should get best set along with everyone also get that, so lowest cost set is preferred for me, I believe in everyone getting the best set not just me, so that either I can show off that in cs or rek new player having weaker set. Pl being small community sts need more revenue per head.

I think everything else already been said or justified. Mages are op, no doubt about it, but the way you trying to project endgame, its not like that and endgame didn't got skill -less suddenly asnu said L77-L80, the problem has been long. Don't worry I'm onto it, convince devs, just be constructive.

[Mothwing]

The sad part is, all you've talked about is mages and bears. Birds, foxes, and rhinos have completely left the spiral because they stand no chance. This is why endgame is skill-less, this is why the skill is a 90% differential compared to 75-77, because unless those characters get lucky, they will not win.

Not gonna lie I chuckled at this. If you believe 75-77 had 90% more skill than 80 does right now, I don't think you've played end game enough. Then again, you're a bear so taking this perspective is understandable. Do you even realize how untouchable lust pallies and bears were? There was no comparison. There were maybe 6 int mages at 77 cap: Myself, Sweet, Ghost, Oneshotfury, Azefekie, and Shiloo (the only reason I mention this is because I could literally count the number of pure int mages there were at 77 on two hands). Everyone else was a pally. Not to mention how pathetically underpowered fiery was (and still is). Now the tables turn and mages are op, and here you are complaining because all you play is bear.

And I guess I have no choice but to bring up your very misconstrued perception of twinking. If you can say on the forums that 80 is unbalanced and unfair, how can you POSSIBLY argue to me in game that 61 and 66 bears are on an even playing field with every other class. It really is amazing how often you change your opinion to play the victim when in reality you play the most overpowered class across every single level (except 80!).

EDIT: To make this post constructive, yeah sure give low levels elites as long as they don't make bears more overpowered than they already are. I doubt it will happen though because elites are traditionally introduced with new level caps. That's kind of the whole point of the game, to level up and reach the end. Not once have devs offered support for twinking, because it's not a specific designation of the game.

[Mess]

Not gonna lie I chuckled at this. If you believe 75-77 had 90% more skill than 80 does right now, I don't think you've played end game enough. Then again, you're a bear so taking this perspective is understandable. Do you even realize how untouchable lust pallies and bears were? There was no comparison. There were maybe 6 int mages at 77 cap: Myself, Sweet, Ghost, Oneshotfury, Azefekie, and Shiloo (the only reason I mention this is because I could literally count the number of pure int mages there were at 77 on two hands). Everyone else was a pally. Not to mention how pathetically underpowered fiery was (and still is). Now the tables turn and mages are op, and here you are complaining because all you play is bear.

And I guess I have no choice but to bring up your very misconstrued perception of twinking. If you can say on the forums that 80 is unbalanced and unfair, how can you POSSIBLY argue to me in game that 61 and 66 bears are on an even playing field with every other class. It really is amazing how often you change your opinion to play the victim when in reality you play the most overpowered class across every single level (except 80!).

EDIT: To make this post constructive, yeah sure give low levels elites as long as they don't make bears more overpowered than they already are. I doubt it will happen though because elites are traditionally introduced with new level caps. That's kind of the whole point of the game, to level up and reach the end. Not once have devs offered support for twinking, because it's not a specific designation of the game.

Just wanted to say that, even if im irrelevant, I was int aswell lol.


Now about this guy lol, just ignore him. He thinks he knows everything about every level just because he won a tourney, childish behavior like always.

[Mothwing]

Just wanted to say that, even if im irrelevant, I was int aswell lol.


Now about this guy lol, just ignore him. He thinks he knows everything about every level just because he won a tourney, childish behavior like always.

Yeah I gotchu, I wasn't trying to pick people out I was more trying to make a point. Those were the main mages that I played with/saw the most frequently at 77.

And yeah there's no talking sense with him, he never listens or considers your opinion.

[Mothwing]

As a new player, reaching 40m isn't an easy task. I suppose you've had money for so long you've forgotten the struggle to get it. Months, or even a year of merching and farming ingame, compared to buying OP sets instantly with $100 of real life currency. This is the definition of pay to win.

Also, news flash buddy, almost every MMO requires some type of "grind" or "farming" mechanism in order to obtain the best gear. That's the way PL has been and always will be. Do you not remember people running countless hours of plasma pyramid just to afford a 2m shadows set at 50 cap? 40m is not that much at all, especially in the current economy. You can farm one starry or one 80 elite and merch it until you have enough gold to buy what you need.

People have the choice to spend money or not, and that's what you are not understanding. STS isn't forcing people to pay for the sets. They are providing the option, even though players are completely able to farm or merch the sets themselves. It's easier. That's why so many people are buying them. They don't want to put in the work and earn the gold. Don't confuse laziness with difficulty.

[Competitive]

This thread tho lmao dam.

Am here to spread love for everyone here! :-)

[CHINDUSTER]

I can guess lol, y u were banned, but that's not our topic.

You asked y I didn't talk about bird, fox ... And the same time, you reminding me about this thread not being PvP disbalance, the answer is hidden within, lol because I've talked things which is closely relate to your comments.

But let me tell you, I talked about bird and you marked it as 'non topic' and for rhino n fox, they added later and at the phase when main old 3 classes ain't blanaced it would be worthless to ask it even, but nothing wrong it doing it though, u can raise the issue.

The real funny fact is when special elites were 20m+ and newly introduced were much more than that, nobody complained it, never said, it's too much, did u? Now after what you called pay to win actually lower that price, you should be happy. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN U AND ME is that you feeling it like - why a new one can get such set spending real money, kinda jealous.

My perspective always been, I should get best set along with everyone also get that, so lowest cost set is preferred for me, I believe in everyone getting the best set not just me, so that either I can show off that in cs or rek new player having weaker set. Pl being small community sts need more revenue per head.

I think everything else already been said or justified. Mages are op, no doubt about it, but the way you trying to project endgame, its not like that and endgame didn't got skill -less suddenly asnu said L77-L80, the problem has been long. Don't worry I'm onto it, convince devs, just be constructive.
Okay, guess.

You talked about the elite bow, which is irrelevant. You haven't said a word about Arzac bird.

So because rhino/fox came later, they should automatically be at a disadvantage? Nice.

Never "complained" because it was never purchasable with platinum. This allows the lazy an easy solution to be rich, and kill most of endgame with ease, AKA pay to win.
Yes, they need revenue per head, that is exactly why they introduced this pay to win option. Maybe I should explain it like this:

$=Money
Money=Sets/Disc Items
Sets/Disc Items= Advantage/Win
Rich > Poor

Understand now?

With each update, endgame takes less and less skill. I appreciate you trying to introduce nerfs and ideas, but sadly they will not happen, and endgame with get worse with time to the point where you can't disagree with me about it's skill level. That is just the truth. Good luck though! :eagerness:

Not gonna lie I chuckled at this. If you believe 75-77 had 90% more skill than 80 does right now, I don't think you've played end game enough. Then again, you're a bear so taking this perspective is understandable. Do you even realize how untouchable lust pallies and bears were? There was no comparison. There were maybe 6 int mages at 77 cap: Myself, Sweet, Ghost, Oneshotfury, Azefekie, and Shiloo (the only reason I mention this is because I could literally count the number of pure int mages there were at 77 on two hands). Everyone else was a pally. Not to mention how pathetically underpowered fiery was (and still is). Now the tables turn and mages are op, and here you are complaining because all you play is bear.

And I guess I have no choice but to bring up your very misconstrued perception of twinking. If you can say on the forums that 80 is unbalanced and unfair, how can you POSSIBLY argue to me in game that 61 and 66 bears are on an even playing field with every other class. It really is amazing how often you change your opinion to play the victim when in reality you play the most overpowered class across every single level (except 80!).

EDIT: To make this post constructive, yeah sure give low levels elites as long as they don't make bears more overpowered than they already are. I doubt it will happen though because elites are traditionally introduced with new level caps. That's kind of the whole point of the game, to level up and reach the end. Not once have devs offered support for twinking, because it's not a specific designation of the game.
Complaining? Victim? I still beat majority of your guild by my lonesome, which is funny because they're majority magor mages. I could care less that mages are stronger now, I'm giving my perspective for all classes, not just bear/mage. Please open your eyes and try to comprehend this from something other than a bear/mage perspective.

Any class can beat bears by using str gear at majority of the levels. Wonder why I use to be a pally? Now you know. I am currently using pure dex and I still beat bears as a mage at 56. If you use gear that is at a disadvantage, of course bears will be overpowered, because your set is weak. That goes for most levels. Mages at endgame is a whole different scenario, there is no set that can manage to go toe to toe on any other class besides Arzac/Warat Bear, which can still lose if unlucky. Mages being this strong is fine for bears, but what about the other classes?

Now comes the skill part. If you infact did play 77 mage you would agree that it takes far more skill than the current 80 mage. I say endgame is skill-less because the core stat of almost every PvP level, Hit, is now irrelevant. In addition to Hit being irrelevant, everything can Dodge which is the whole reason for PvP imbalance in the first place. Luck at endgame is now a factor in every fight, and if it isn't luck, it's class, or set disadvantage. Everything you learn at twink levels is completely irrelevant at endgame, because the thought process in fights is minuscule. Pray a skill that does damage hits your opponent through their overwhelming dodge, and win. That is endgame in a sentence.

Also, please stop assuming you know what I do when I play pocket legends. You do not know my character list, and you do not know me. That is something you should learn quick. :stupid:


Just wanted to say that, even if im irrelevant, I was int aswell lol.


Now about this guy lol, just ignore him. He thinks he knows everything about every level just because he won a tourney, childish behavior like always.
As you said, boy, you're irrelevant. :cupcake:

Yeah I gotchu, I wasn't trying to pick people out I was more trying to make a point. Those were the main mages that I played with/saw the most frequently at 77.

And yeah there's no talking sense with him, he never listens or considers your opinion.
Hypocritical. :rolleyes:

Also, news flash buddy, almost every MMO requires some type of "grind" or "farming" mechanism in order to obtain the best gear. That's the way PL has been and always will be. Do you not remember people running countless hours of plasma pyramid just to afford a 2m shadows set at 50 cap? 40m is not that much at all, especially in the current economy. You can farm one starry or one 80 elite and merch it until you have enough gold to buy what you need.

People have the choice to spend money or not, and that's what you are not understanding. STS isn't forcing people to pay for the sets. They are providing the option, even though players are completely able to farm or merch the sets themselves. It's easier. That's why so many people are buying them. They don't want to put in the work and earn the gold. Don't confuse laziness with difficulty.

You do realize the only way to create those sets is to buy certain pieces only available from the vendor? Certain pieces of your magor set was brought by someone, for real cash. If no one brought those pieces, no one would have full sets right now. So yes, they are making you buy these items.

Truthfully I doubt you've ever farmed a starry, or even dragon sets, if you did you would know the difficulty. Farming isn't some easy task. Some people go weeks/months farming for starries, and still do not recieve any. There's a reason they're so expensive, and even if one happens to drop, you must have some sort of knowledge about merching to turn 8-18m into 40m. :stupid:

[Xyzther]

I farmed a blue starry, had about 20m after that including the starry. Merched up to 50-60m within a month after that now I got Arzac talon set + an extra Arzac talon and an extra Arzac wing. Sadly most people don't know how to merch very well and can't get good drops. It's kinda hard to be rich but easy at the same time. All you need is to drop 1 item worth cap or more then you can merch your way up. The sad part is that dropping the item may take one single morning of farming elite dragon (like it did for me) or 100 hours...

[Waug]

Okay, guess.

You talked about the elite bow, which is irrelevant. You haven't said a word about Arzac bird.
What a irony to be honest, when I said something about disbalance, because it was related with your comment, you said, I'm getting off topic, at the same time also blaming, I don't talk about pvp disbalance. Don't get confused, as I already said, by far I mentioned only those things that was closely related to your reply. If you want, I'll start about that but better make a separate thread based on pvp disbalance topic.



So because rhino/fox came later, they should automatically be at a disadvantage? Nice.

Stop putting words on my mouth, It didn't mean that atall read it again -
rhino n fox, they added later and at the phase when main old 3 classes ain't blanaced it would be worthless to ask it even, but nothing wrong it doing it though, u can raise the issue.
But I'll add that old 3 classes deserved to get balanced FIRST then new ones.


Never "complained" because it was never purchasable with platinum. This allows the lazy an easy solution to be rich, and kill most of endgame with ease, AKA pay to win.
Yes, they need revenue per head, that is exactly why they introduced this pay to win option. Maybe I should explain it like this:

$=Money
Money=Sets/Disc Items
Sets/Disc Items= Advantage/Win
Rich > Poor

Understand now?

There should be & there always have been some kinda advantage (not stat advantage) to plat users, otherwise, why they would pay money, This is not against free-to-play model. If someone PvP without best set, he gonna get killed easily, is it something special? was it different in any other level or cap? It suddenly didn't happen cause of Plat purchasable sets, for your information. You're contradicting yourself, how? you saying it's now "Rich > Poor" but if set wasn't purchase bale through plat, 4pc set would cost 80m, so that would not be "Rich > Poor" or you consider 80m is affordable to poor?

Also you should read this carefully from top to buttom - http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?378831-It-s-good-move-not-PAY-2-WIN
which will definitely show you the other side of the coin, which you're unable to understand now.


With each update, endgame takes less and less skill. I appreciate you trying to introduce nerfs and ideas, but sadly they will not happen, and endgame with get worse with time to the point where you can't disagree with me about it's skill level. That is just the truth. Good luck though! :eagerness:
Why would I disagree? that's the fact I kept telling you, now good thing is you understood that finally, rather than you thought that PvP got suddenly 90% skill less from L77-80. But you should understand the difference between Skill-less & luck based, both ain't same, & when you wanna go against luck, against op classes, you need to be more skill-full and challanging, in that perspective only endgame is most skill-full level out there.

[Justg]

Shutting this drama-magnet down.