Thoughts on difficulty of Shadow Caves

[ScarecrowWolf]

Is it just me, or is Shadow Caves more difficult than Nuri's Hallow?

I understand that Before the lvl 61 level cap the difficulty would be real high so that you would be stuck trying to beat the levels, Therefore, making you play the game longer. But the difficulty of Shadow Caves makes Balefort Sewers seem like AO1.

Now that there is a new level cap though, I think that the difficulty of the mobs should be lowered way down. Me and a group of level 56's and up had more of a hard time beating the first lvl of Shadow Caves than we did on the last level of Nuri's Hallow.

With that being said, if anyone has any comments or questions feel free to leave a comment.

Thx-
ScarecrowWolf

[Ellyidol]

You do know it's an elite dungeon right? Hence the immense increase in difficulty.

Mt Fang may be one as well, not sure if it was already defined as an elite dungeon or just a normal one.

[bottleo]

Haha I was with u ur right man it seems harder...

[ScarecrowWolf]

You do know it's an elite dungeon right? Hence the immense increase in difficulty.

Mt Fang may be one as well, not sure if it was already defined as an elite dungeon or just a normal one.

I know it's an Elite Dungeon, I just dont understand why it harder or as hard as Nuri's.

[Moogerfooger]

An Elite dungeon will always be harder than a slightly higher-level non-Elite, from the way STS seems to be doing it so far.

Something along the lines of Elite lvl 50 > non-Elite 60/61, in the difficulty category.

Frozen Nightmares was considerably more difficult usually than higher-lvl non-Elite dungeons as well.

[mugen]

Frozen Nightmares was considerably more difficult usually than higher-lvl non-Elite dungeons as well.

I remember when you couldn't even use potions in frozen nightmares, now that was hard at lvl 30 ! Lol

[Pakax]

Shadow is indeed extremely hard but def worth farming as well.

I hope Fang will be elite as well so that the drops are good, but it would prob then be a place where you would only go with 61s on x4 pots! :-))

[Ixillicus]

Elite dungeons are supposed to be really hard. Even though there are campaigns 10 levels higher its still the hardest place.

[Moogerfooger]

I remember when you couldn't even use potions in frozen nightmares, now that was hard at lvl 30 ! Lol

Yeah, no doubt! No pots = a lot of deaths. Remember when you had all the health and mana orbs throughout the map and people would be racing to get them to stay alive?

It is still hard as a lvl 30, but with the pots, much easier. But still tough. Heck, you can die as a 50+ on some of the bosses if you get mobbed/are not paying attention, especially on Fridge.

[Doubletime]

Even today the Shadow Caves have the most difficult bosses of all the campaigns. It is a combonation of the multiple bosses that have to be dealt with at the same time. As 50s, it was a death trap. Fun as heck for a while, but still a death trap. And remember, the caves have already seen one difficulty nerf. When it was first released, it was even harder. lol.

And just to give you a comparision, if I run with my typical group and we use trash pots -- we can death train any of the Nuri maps. We just run and kill. No strategy really needed. We just combo our way through the mobs without even pausing. We went into the Shadow Caves for about two hours earlier this week just for fun. That same group of 61s with trash pots would get a party wipe if we tried to rush the boss areas. The Shadow Witch is still increadibly hard to deal with unless you do the correct pulls. So yeah -- it is still "the" elite dungeon in the game. At least until Mt. Fang comes out and we see what the devs have planned for us there.

Playing the Shadow Caves is still a lot of fun. It reminds me of what PL use to be before the current trash pot craze where parties need balanced groups of each class and real team work and strategy to successfully complete boards. Take a group there and trust me when I say you will learn to play better as a team because of it.

[Pakax]

you can die being 61 on fridge!

[NECROREAPER]

Shadow caves are indeed a difficult map, however I've had times where I've had relatively easy runs provided I was with a good team and we were communicating non stop to take down mobs/bosses. I've also had the worst of teams where we've barely gotten past spawn before a party wipe occurs.

I'd say for the elite dungeons, it's ALL about team work and effective communication.

[McBain]

Weird, my feeling is the opposite. First time I played Shadow Cave (at level 52) I was like "this is an elite campaign?" Didn't seem all that difficult to me. I've run the maps a number of times at this point, and I still feel the same way. The bosses, on the other hand, can be a real pain in the butt. SC definitely has the hardest bosses in the game so far, but the rest of the maps are cake.

[Doubletime]

Weird, my feeling is the opposite. First time I played Shadow Cave (at level 52) I was like "this is an elite campaign?" Didn't seem all that difficult to me. I've run the maps a number of times at this point, and I still feel the same way. The bosses, on the other hand, can be a real pain in the butt. SC definitely has the hardest bosses in the game so far, but the rest of the maps are cake.

By chance was your first trip into the Shadow Caves after the difficulty nerf? The major change was a reduction in the difficulty of the trash mobs in the caves. Pre-nerf, these mobs were no joke to party of 50s trying to even make it to a boss. Party wipes on Shadow D'jinn and all. Anyway, I still enjoy the challenge of the bosses. And I agree they are still the most difficult in the game.

[AdinoEznite]

Shadow caves are indeed a difficult map, however I've had times where I've had relatively easy runs provided I was with a good team and we were communicating non stop to take down mobs/bosses. I've also had the worst of teams where we've barely gotten past spawn before a party wipe occurs.

I'd say for the elite dungeons, it's ALL about team work and effective communication.
lets do some shadow cave runs! =]

i do think that a new incentive to run shadow caves would be cool tho

[pastrychef]

There's no question in my mind as to whether Witch is the toughest boss in the game. I personally consider it an accomplishment to walk away from the caves with single digit deaths.

[ScarecrowWolf]

If anyone wants to do runs, add me.

ScarecrowWolf. lvl 57. dex bear.

[McBain]

By chance was your first trip into the Shadow Caves after the difficulty nerf? The major change was a reduction in the difficulty of the trash mobs in the caves. Pre-nerf, these mobs were no joke to party of 50s trying to even make it to a boss. Party wipes on Shadow D'jinn and all. Anyway, I still enjoy the challenge of the bosses. And I agree they are still the most difficult in the game.

Probably. I just purchased the campaign fairly recently. I wonder why they nerfed it, if it's supposed to be an elite campaign and all. The Shadow Witch is definitely no joke and the Shadow D'jinn can take you down too if you're not careful, but yeah, overall the trash mobs are nothing special. It's a step up in difficulty compared to the sewers, but not compared to Nuri's IMO.

[pastrychef]

In the old days, the mob archers were like snipers from AO3. It took me over two hours to clear all maps my first time there.

[Moogerfooger]

Probably. I just purchased the campaign fairly recently. I wonder why they nerfed it, if it's supposed to be an elite campaign and all.

They nerfed it somewhat because it was just a death trap and people were purposely not playing...after the initial pink drop rate nerf after a couple of days, there was little incentive to go in there for orange/green drops. People didn't want to go in there to rack up a lot of deaths and waste pots unless you managed to get a good team together (and even then, it was no joke), get relatively crummy drops, and just have it be a gold sink after paying for armor and melee pots with gold. No point in having a level no one wants to play. It wasn't just elite, it was a deterrent to all but the hardcore. Like Doubletime said, the mobs pre-nerf were pretty difficult (and there were a lot more of them) and party wipes of even good players happened. Which in spirit IS an Elite level...but from a business perspective, not what I think STS wanted. If word got out it was impossible, no one would buy it.

[krazii]

I remember when you couldn't even use potions in frozen nightmares, now that was hard at lvl 30 ! Lol

I wish they would have left it that way. FN was one of the best areas to play because you actually had to use strategy. The 1000 snowballs quest was just brutal? Does that wind sound make anybody else sleepy?

[McBain]

They could keep the same difficulty and increase the rate of quality drops a bit to make it worthwhile. Even now that SC isn't that hard, I don't really see the point of it. I haven't played it enough to complain about getting no pinks, so I won't go there, but in general the drops seemed like the same old AO stuff. It seems like there's not much payoff to playing it, regardless of difficulty. I was a little disappointed after I purchased it.

[TANKKAAR]

Are elite dungeons similar to holiday campaigns where the threat level of mobs and boss adjust depending on max lvl character playing? Because that would explain a lot...lol... Like why even at 55 I had the most difficult time finishing the 1000 pelts and snowballs quest in what is suppose to be a lvl 30 map.

[Pakax]

Are elite dungeons similar to holiday campaigns where the threat level of mobs and boss adjust depending on max lvl character playing? Because that would explain a lot...lol... Like why even at 55 I had the most difficult time finishing the 1000 pelts and snowballs quest in what is suppose to be a lvl 30 map.

This may well be true actually. You should have seen my face when I went in there the first time. I had no clue.. I was 55 and I really felt on top of my game and ... I died after 10 secs. I thought something went wrong with my ping.
re-spawned... ran back to that blue thingy..and... died again. Then I got it!

[CrimsonTalons]

Ive been waiting ages to see a shadow run in the "join game" section.

Id love to be able to get a pink drop rather than constantly grinding to make 6 figure digit money to buy one item. :distrust:

If anyone would like to add my mage CrimsonStaff and msg me id love it.

CHeers!