The real problem with PvP

[Bazinga!]

I'm making this thread because there are so many threads about the imbalance in PvP but in my opinion, most of them are missing the point. And it is not like I haven't made one of these before. In my frustration, even I have failed to see the actual problem. I recently looked at OPest's thread about nerfing dodge, which is a good idea if done appropriately. But the total elimination of dodge as he mentioned is something that will cause a lot of problems the way I look at it.

If you think about the PvP arenas, they aren't called 'Team Deathmatch' for no reason. They are meant for 3 v 3 FFAs. If you look back, there were relatively less (and I'm not saying there weren't any) posts about PvP imbalance before the 76 cap. Rather than talking about how one class was unfair, people talked about the best way to counteract that class. It was only after the 76 cap that there was an increase in the number of posts regarding PvP imbalance. So what was different before and after the 76 cap?

Before the 76 cap, the game got regular updates and expansions. There were enough people to make at least 4 full PvP games at level cap. When one player left, another one came in almost immediately. There were enough players to have a full fledged FFA match.

The 76 cap was the last expansion for the next 2.5 years. STS started drifting away from PL and so did players, naturally. PvP became more dependent on the go system and more stupid rules like 'no running' and 'no using trees' came into the picture. I mean come on, I'm sure STS put trees there for the sole purpose of hiding.

When you exclude movement, hiding and team play, it all boils down to comparing stats. And in the 76 cap, bears had more than 100 hit, the most armour and the most dodge out of all classes and therefore they dominated (or rather the STR class in general dominated). But the fact is that bears are supposed to be the tank in a 3 v 3 match and mages and birds could run around and hide if they wanted, not run straight into the battle.

All in all, the main problem is the domination of the GO system, as a result of a declining player base.

If there is one thing I wish STS could have done to sort PvP imbalance out, it is to introduce different types of sets. For example, when STS created MAGOR / ARZAC / WARAT, they did it so that the new items became better than the current sets, not because they could be used in a strategically different manner.
This type of item creation can be seen at every level starting from 61. And forget about item creation; after 66 there was literally only one set to wear for each class. Variety in gear can be found in lower levels like 15 but still not to the extent that it should be varied. Unfortunately I'm not a fan of playing with only four skills, other wise I would have been playing AL right now, not writing this post :p.

Conclusion:
After reading through all the posts and thoughts on this topic again, I realise that the problem of statistical imbalances cannot be completely avoided, although I would still say that it can be significantly reduced by having team FFAs, which is the way it is supposed to be, instead of turn by turn individual battles.

I've bolded out the changes I made. I hope this answers some of the arguments made.

[ababioka]

I like the point you made about treeing and running.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Waug]

Your whole analogy comes down to the point -



All in all, the main problem is the declining player base. .........

and



Before the 76 cap, the game got regular updates and expansions. There were enough people to make at least 4 full PvP games at level cap. When one player left, another one came in almost immediately. There were enough players to have a full fledged FFA match. ...[B]PvP became more dependent on the go system and more stupid rules like 'no running' and 'no using trees' came into the picture.

But which is actually not true, PvP areana was mostly 'Go' dependent before L76 cap INFECT lately after some guilds started to fight each other on see, PvP arena was facing more without 'go' fight, PvP arena never changed the way you tried to say since the very first day I started to pvp, It wasn't the matter that the arena is full or not, there are many games at once or not, mostly it's 1-1 'go'. At the present time too, it's not the arena is empty (other than the USA sleep time) I don't know, from where this statements comes from, Probably from those who don't do endgame?

Not only that, the tendency of CTF games even wasn't change much since long - Arena mostly 1-1 'go' other than guild fight now, and back then before L76 cap & CTF mages mostly 3-3 CTF same as before.

Now, Let's come to the important point. Let me remind you, L76 was inFamous for OPness of Phoenix Birds, latter when Birds were nerfed hard, Bears were overpowered, you probbaly forgot the phase when at this time Lust bears used to 2 hit kills int mages, now if I pust the analogy of yours, just what you said -


And in the 76 cap, bears had more than 100 hit, the most armour and the most dodge out of all classes and therefore they dominated (or rather the STR class in general dominated). But the fact is that bears are supposed to be the tank in a 3 v 3 match and mages and birds could run around and hide if they wanted, not run straight into the battle.
This would be the worst analogy TBH, Imagine a 3 bear team fighting 3 mage team, It didn't matter that mages go hide behind trees all the time or not they would get rekt hard. Fact is, if something is OP that doesn't only effect 1vs1, that effects 3vs3 too. I don't need to say much and explain small details here.

Dodge is not enemy of any particular class, it's enemy of skill. To an extent dodge is ok, because it's part of PL but when most of the skills are being dodged, it's something must be done, Also I didn't talked about total dodge nerf, I talked about total dodge nerf from endgame items.

[HeyitsTubs]

birds should be calibrated to be 'better' at low lvl pvp.

[Bazinga!]

This would be the worst analogy TBH, Imagine a 3 bear team fighting 3 mage team, It didn't matter that mages go hide behind trees all the time or not they would get rekt hard. Fact is, if something is OP that doesn't only effect 1vs1, that effects 3vs3 too. I don't need to say much and explain small details here.

I knew that someone would comment about this eventually, but I have to say, you're still missing the whole point. You yourself said that my whole post comes down to the point that the player base has declined too much.

Its not about comparing one class to another, but rather comparing the efficiency of one team to another. In a 1 v 1 go system, the individually stronger class would win. In a 3 v 3 Team Deathmatch, the better team would win. Comparing 3 bears to 3 mages is the same as comparing a bear to a mage.

Now lets see what happens in the two situations, and I'm assuming that we're in the 76 cap here:

1) There is a good player base and an active endgame community.
Two of the INT mages (supposing that they know what they are doing) would leave and be replaced by any other class like a STR mage / bear or a bird. Meanwhile those two INT mages join a different game.

2) The player base is small and there aren't too many games.
All of the INT mages are forced to stay in that game if they want to PvP. One of them leaves. There is no one to replace him at least for the next 5 minutes. The other two mages leave as well.

[Waug]

I knew that someone would comment about this eventually, but I have to say, you're still missing the whole point. You yourself said that my whole post comes down to the point that the player base has declined too much.

Its not about comparing one class to another, but rather comparing the efficiency of one team to another. In a 1 v 1 go system, the individually stronger class would win. In a 3 v 3 Team Deathmatch, the better team would win. Comparing 3 bears to 3 mages is the same as comparing a bear to a mage.

Now lets see what happens in the two situations, and I'm assuming that we're in the 76 cap here:

1) There is a good player base and an active endgame community.
Two of the INT mages (supposing that they know what they are doing) would leave and be replaced by any other class like a STR mage / bear or a bird. Meanwhile those two INT mages join a different game.

2) The player base is small and there aren't too many games.
All of the INT mages are forced to stay in that game if they want to PvP. One of them leaves. There is no one to replace him at least for the next 5 minutes. The other two mages leave as well.

None force to play anything, anybody simply leave arena in adverse situations.

The situations you're referring are more like pen and paper and far from reality. DO YOU REALIZE That fair team matches only limited to tourney and some friendly matches.

It's kinda excuse that, PvP should not be balanced because get op classes in ur team and do 3vs3 FFA. Top of that balanacing dodge is balance PvP as whole not just to balance out any specific class, which the point you totally missed actually.

[Bazinga!]

None force to play anything, anybody simply leave arena in adverse situations.

The situations you're referring are more like pen and paper and far from reality. DO YOU REALIZE That fair matches only limited to tourney and some friendly matches.

It's kinda excuse that, PvP should not be balanced because get op classes in ur team and do PvP. Top of that balanacing dodge is balance PvP as whole not just to balance out any specific class, which the point you totally missed actually.

There are no fair matches, it's just that with more players available, it's easier to find teams that can match up. There's one line that conveys my message if anyone's too lazy to read.

And since you brought up dodge, the issue with 80 PvP is that all classes have the same dodge. Again, this was done (probably) to ensure that any one class can survive in a 1 v 1 match. Why make TDMs then? The fact that one player can damage all three players on the other team with one skill shows that we are meant to have FFAs.

[Waug]

There are no fair matches, it's just that with more players available, it's easier to find teams that can match up. There's one line that conveys my message if anyone's too lazy to read.

And since you brought up dodge, the issue with 80 PvP is that all classes have the same dodge. Again, this was done (probably) to ensure that any one class can survive in a 1 v 1 match. Why make TDMs then? The fact that one player can damage all three players on the other team with one skill shows that we are meant to have FFAs.

Read the bold line, should I say first get proper knowledge and then stat ur facts? All classes don't have same dodge BUT all endgame special elites have same dodge,

The funny fact is, I'm not asking to nerf dodge for any specific item, rather from all (str-int-dex) you missed it as well.

Also the interesting fact is, when most of the skill get dodged, actually any skill full player should not support this neither all those oldies supported this in past, you talk about what pl pvp meant to be, but dont realize it? it favour those ppls who rely on some hits(does not matter, which one got dodged) and op enough to take down the opponent, how even so called skillfull player support dodge just because they rely on dodges.

Already told you, dodge nerfing is more than balancing class, first think about it, try to understand and stat ur logics, I'll be there to clear it out.

[Bazinga!]

I would assume that you of all people would know that when I said dodge, I meant base dodge. Usually I can understand what you're trying to say, but I'm sorry this time I really have no idea. I'm sure you have some good points but if you could take the time to create them properly, it would only make your posts more understandable.

You've been trying to contradict everything I say, but all I can see after reading your posts is that you're still thinking from a perspective of a 1 v 1. Throughout the time you've been playing Pocket Legends, you have always preferred the FFA system over the go system and even went to the extent where you would handle 3 opponents alone. You did well for some time but now it isn't working, and for this reason I'm beginning to doubt the credibility of your posts, because you're complaining about dodge and at the same time you want to beat three players on your own. It seems like you want other classes to be so weak that it takes the whole team to give you competition. I'm sorry but that's not going to happen.

[Onepropally]

Make birds super dodgey, make int mages super buffy, the more buffs and heal the better, and make bears super tanky, each class needs their their advantages and disadvantages not equal amount of stats. That's just wrong

[XghostzX]

Read the bold line, should I say first get proper knowledge and then stat ur facts? All classes don't have same dodge BUT all endgame special elites have same dodge,

The funny fact is, I'm not asking to nerf dodge for any specific item, rather from all (str-int-dex) you missed it as well.

Also the interesting fact is, when most of the skill get dodged, actually any skill full player should not support this neither all those oldies supported this in past, you talk about what pl pvp meant to be, but dont realize it? it favour those ppls who rely on some hits(does not matter, which one got dodged) and op enough to take down the opponent, how even so called skillfull player support dodge just because they rely on dodges.

Already told you, dodge nerfing is more than balancing class, first think about it, try to understand and stat ur logics, I'll be there to clear it out.

I get headaches reading your posts >.<

It's unfortunate that our community is so wrapped up in this go-system. Like I always say -- find a PvP guild, don't feel the need to be best friends with every player you run in to, and start some guild wars. That's just the way to do it these days. You'll find that a little drama here and there is actually pretty fun and entertaining, keeps things interesting :)

[ryanbemani1]

Of course, I am no expert really when it comes to stats and attributes in endgame pvp. I'd however say what kind of experiences I had with arzac talon set.
-Coming across full int magor mage: especially when 3pc, I find that they do incredible damage. And when I mean incredible, I mean zero chance for a bird to survive longer than a second unless it is a rare case of continuous lucky dodge which I will explain later. Also it's a 50/50 chance of destroying ms, which further means that if I get unlucky and I don't blast out the ms, the mage can throw everything at me and I'm dead that moment. So maybe to make it more fair from the mage's side, a slight dodge and damage nerf would equalise the chances of survival. To touch on the, "rare case of continuous lucky dodge," what I mean is that sometimes when I fail to destroy a mage's mana shield, and they fire everything at me, I end up dodging every single hit and skill and the tables turn, giving me my moment to attack. However this is rare and doesn't usually happen.
A full dex bird: Simply a slight dodge nerf would probably give better chance of hit. This can also become helpful for mages if that rare scenario happens.
A full str bear: Everything seems to be fine with full str and half str/half dex bears except maybe a slight damage nerf would mean birds can survive longer and escape situations when they are pulled in. Otherwise, if a bird does get pulled in by a bear and it is str, then I guess rip bird. With dex bears, I mean they can even do high amounts of damage from longer ranges so the slight damage buff as mentioned might be able to sort that out as well.

Sorry if all of the above is inaccurate. I mean, these are my sort of experiences as a bird but maybe if we could relate to it somehow, it can help buff the birds a little. Like I said, I am no expert at all when it comes to what should be buffed and what should be nerfed, but hopefully some of that information comes out true and something can be done about it. Otherwise the pros about this topic here are: waug, ghost, bazinga

[Waug]

I would assume that you of all people would know that when I said dodge, I meant base dodge. Usually I can understand what you're trying to say, but I'm sorry this time I really have no idea. I'm sure you have some good points but if you could take the time to create them properly, it would only make your posts more understandable.

You've been trying to contradict everything I say, but all I can see after reading your posts is that you're still thinking from a perspective of a 1 v 1. Throughout the time you've been playing Pocket Legends, you have always preferred the FFA system over the go system and even went to the extent where you would handle 3 opponents alone. You did well for some time but now it isn't working, and for this reason I'm beginning to doubt the credibility of your posts, because you're complaining about dodge and at the same time you want to beat three players on your own. It seems like you want other classes to be so weak that it takes the whole team to give you competition. I'm sorry but that's not going to happen.

ROFL, aren't you contradicting yourself now, first off you're saying that - my mind set is 1-1 and also saying I prefer FFA, your pen and paper FFA is not the reality, here's a solid proof from your friend -




It's unfortunate that our community is so wrapped up in this go-system.

Whatever, I've explained many time, but ur ignoring the facts -

1> I talked about dodge nerf from ALL endgame sets not just from INT set, but also from dex n str, your mindset is, I wanna make other classes weak, what a logic.

2> Don't try to show that the dodge nerfing favourable for 1-1 because its all matter same way in FFA, probably you still thinking that, bear won't dodge then, nope they'll have all the dodge buff intact as always just for an example.

3> You're talking about & trying to support role-play on FFA and FFA mechanics itself, but then you're getting away from the fact that all classes should have their own unique role rather than 'everyone should dodge' WHICH IS TOTALLY AGAINST CLASSY TEAM BASED FFA MECHANISM this just simply proves that, you're trying to keep your OPness and using wrong logics in support.

@ iLeave, don't hesitate, you're an experienced player too, and doing PvP for long, & thanks for stating the facts, there are not much bird & bear left on arena mostly mages, even when, I'm asking for UNIVERSAL dodge nerf from sets, not just from mages set, they're taking this as attact on their OPness, lol.

Open up your minds MAGES. this not against ya, its against global heavy dodging.

[Sheugokin]

I have come out of of my forum hibernation.

I can agree with all of the above comments, but I think that there could be a healthy balance between the "Go" and the "FFA" play style in PvP.

If you want to use the "Go" system and the intended person does too, then fine. But always be aware that there will be those who DON'T want the go system. And respect that. What I don't want is teaming (because let's be honest who likes to be teamed.) or foul language.

@Waug- I just find your statement very hypocritical. Mages should hide but once they do you complain to the next dimension. In PvP you do the same, especially when I do that without buffs.

But not only you. WE ALL are hypocrites, I have complained about hiding, running, rushing, etc. That mentality needs to end but will it? I don't think so. Without pointing fingers at specific people, the majority of PvPers are all set on the "Go" system because PL has gotten to the point where fights are mostly luck. I can manage to fit my entire combo in 2 secs and yet can still lose to a equally-equipped mage with two skills. I didn't dodge but he/she did.

The "Go" system requires A LOT less skill that FFA. In CTF and true Team Deathmatch, each class has its own niche. Mages have to position them so strategically to weave in and out of the fights, nuke, heal, and revive. Sure, they are considered OP, but in FFA in which the fights are first balanced, it's all about who has the correct fighting style. Birds and bears, which I am totally trash at, have their own niches too, and since I do not specialize in them, I have no place in talking about them.

[Waug]

@Waug- I just find your statement very hypocritical. Mages should hide but once they do you complain to the next dimension. In PvP you do the same, especially when I do that without buffs.

.
I couldn't find such statement of mine anywhere, could u find it for me? Then we can talk about it.lol

BTW, this is not a discussion between go n ffa system

[XghostzX]

I couldn't find such statement of mine anywhere, could u find it for me? Then we can talk about it.lol

BTW, this is not a discussion between go n ffa system

1. In my last post I was never disagreeing with your stuff, I was merely stating my own opinion with no connection/relevance to yours. Please stop trying to act like the PL know-it-all and our savior.

2. You don't have to "find such statement" of yours to argue a point...

smh I can't communicate with this guy

[Bazinga!]

3> You're talking about & trying to support role-play on FFA and FFA mechanics itself, but then you're getting away from the fact that all classes should have their own unique role rather than 'everyone should dodge' WHICH IS TOTALLY AGAINST CLASSY TEAM BASED FFA MECHANISM this just simply proves that, you're trying to keep your OPness and using wrong logics in support.

After reading this, I can confirm that you have no idea about what I'm talking about. I've been saying that each class has its own role all along and that's why a 3 v 3 match is more preferable over a 1 v 1 match.

Also, I agree with Sheugokin's post. If people prefer the go system over the FFA system, that is totally fine, but there is absolutely nothing to complain about then, because they are putting themselves at a disadvantage by their own will. IMO, FFA (or 3 v 3s just in case Waug gets confused again) should be the predominant PvP style. I haven't thought about it before, but it is pretty interesting how over the years, the whole PL community has agreed to PvP by the go system; it's just against human nature o.o. I would have thought that there would be a whole bunch of players unwilling to play by the 'go' system.

#BringBackTDM :p

[Mothwing]

I generally agree, the community has lost sight of the teamwork aspect. It takes more skill to be a mage that can revive, buff, and heal correctly than it does to play 1v1. Anybody that disagrees with that just please stop reading my comment now so we can avoid useless arguments.

However wt the same time, if individual classes can't stand up alone against another, then the whole game kind of breaks down as a whole. The reason your post doesn't really work is because of metas. In an ideal world, teams would be restricted to only a bear, bird, and mage (which is what I was trying to do with the league that nobody bought into). But even back at 77 when there were significantly more players, a team of one bird, one mage, and one bear stands absolutely no chance against three pallies or three bears. It's just not possible because of stat differences. Pure int mages and dex birds did not deal out a proportional amount of damage relative to their armor, health, and dodge. A bear or pally should not be able to tank multiple combos and then kill you in 3 skills when they're not even using their auto attack. That's where there's an imbalance; the disadvantage of being a bear or pally is the lack of ranged damage...except that disadvantage doesn't exist at all because they have so much dodge and do so much skill damage.

This in turn breaks down the team aspect of the game, because individual players can completely turn the tide of a game without any support from their team. It basically comes down to who has the best bear or who has the best mage, which is unfortunate but the way it is and probably always will be.

[Bazinga!]

I see your point @moth. Some caps had just messed up the equilibrium of the game. I particularly liked the 71 cap because a Crusher bear could efficiently tank but at the same time not take out the whole team with a pull-stomp; a Phantom bird and a Goddess mage had enough dodge to step in and out of battle without getting one - shot killed. Back then I didn't even have enough money to afford the gear other wise it would have been my favorite cap.

But at the same time if Pallies were the best, then obviously most people would be Pallies and that one mage in the other team would most likely be a pally as well. Keeping that in mind, I would say that the one bird in that team would be an advantage rather than the brake.

What people have to understand is that it's not possible to have fairly matched teams every time in any game in fact. Its just that other games have more people and each round will not have the same people in each team. You lose one round but you win the next against another team. We can't keep comparing two of the same teams. There's always a team that has the potential to beat the so called OP team. When there are more players, the chances of one such team actually forming increases.

[Waug]

1. In my last post I was never disagreeing with your stuff, I was merely stating my own opinion with no connection/relevance to yours. Please stop trying to act like the PL know-it-all and our savior.

2. You don't have to "find such statement" of yours to argue a point...

smh I can't communicate with this guy
I've taken a sentence for analogy purpose, don't get confused.

Lol, don't mess up, I asked Sheug to find the statement he talked about, it has nothing to do with u.




After reading this, I can confirm that you have no idea about what I'm talking about. I've been saying that each class has its own role all along and that's why a 3 v 3 match is more preferable over a 1 v 1 match.



Don't get confused. Answer me a simple question.

You are saying each class has its own role, right? So mages role is to dodge? As you supported having equal dodge on all items (dex-str-int)

These two statements can't go together but contradict with each other . That's why I said you're trying to advocate for your op class rather than advocating for actual FFA mechanics, Which you tried to PRETEND always.

Moth has pointed out some really neutral and nice facts. You shoul read that carefully. Classes should be balanced to an extent (not totally possible) otherwise it does not matter its 1-1 or FFA, don't make FFA the excuse of not letting classes balanced.

LASTLY I'll repeat that I kept saying since beginning, I never asked to nerf dodges from INT only, nerfing dodge is necessary, dodging most of the hits can't be skillful PvP.

[Bazinga!]

You are saying each class has its own role, right? So mages role is to dodge? As you supported having equal dodge on all items (dex-str-int)

What I said:


And since you brought up dodge, the issue with 80 PvP is that all classes have the same dodge.

Do you even read brah?

[Mothwing]

But at the same time if Pallies were the best, then obviously most people would be Pallies and that one mage in the other team would most likely be a pally as well. Keeping that in mind, I would say that the one bird in that team would be an advantage rather than the brake.

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. You're initial argument when you posted this thread was that the imbalance on the game isn't so much the gear but the team aspect. You kind of contradicted that here. If I'm on a team that has amazing chemistry and teamwork that is comfortable with a str bear, int mage, and dex bird that goes up against a pally, str bear, and dex bird that has little to no teamwork, the team with the pally will almost always win if the pally has half a brain. That's the point I'm trying to make, gear>teamwork in this game. Almost always. I've been playing with most of my friends for maybe 4, 5 years now. We all know how each other plays and we all have great teamwork. Yet we are still vulnerable to full teams of cheap gear. That's why Fam was so relevant during 77 and I guess now 80. All they do is say; "ok everyone! Time to switch your build to whatever the meta is!" Hence their guild full of pallies and bears at 77 and now pure mages at 80. On the other hand, players from RM, Resto, Unity, etc haven't GENERALLY changed their builds in a long time. Ghost has been an int mage forever. Dollo has been a bird forever. Glad has been a bear forever, etc etc.

Your last paragraph is just confusing to me. If you're centering your argument around teamwork, you can't claim that the game never allows for teams to be the same. Teamwork doesn't just show up out of nowhere, you have to play with each other and get used to fighting with the same 3 players over and over. For the game to not allow that just contradicts your point.

And you contradict yourself again. If there's a so called "OP team", shouldn't they be unbeatable in your context? If teamwork truly does trump stats, then there should never be a team that can match with the top team. The only way that would be possible if what you're claiming isn't true, is indeed true; that stats have a significant impact (they do!) on PvP and can cause good teams to lose to pure bs such as dodge.

[Bazinga!]

I'm not contradicting myself. Maybe the way I put it made it seem like I did.

I never mentioned that teamwork trumps stats; in fact my point of view had nothing to do with teamwork or stats. I think this is the best way to explain how I'm thinking:

Think of it like a rock-paper-scissors game. Rock beats scissors, scissors beat paper and paper beats rock. Now replace rock, paper and scissors with different combinations of teams (and I'm assuming that all these teams are playing their best, so the factor of skill doesn't apply here). There is always one team that can beat the other. But in this case there are a lot more combinations of teams, more like a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock game :p.

With less number of players, its more like a rock-scissors game, where one team always beats the other. With more number of players, there are more possibilities.

Actually when I look back at my own post, the paragraph that you quoted doesn't make too much sense so if you're confused then I totally get it.

[Waug]

What I said:



Do you even read brah?

So why are you against all set dodge nerf in the first place?

[Waug]

I'm not contradicting myself. Maybe the way I put it made it seem like I did.

I never mentioned that teamwork trumps stats; in fact my point of view had nothing to do with teamwork or stats. I think this is the best way to explain how I'm thinking:

Think of it like a rock-paper-scissors game. Rock beats scissors, scissors beat paper and paper beats rock. Now replace rock, paper and scissors with different combinations of teams (and I'm assuming that all these teams are playing their best, so the factor of skill doesn't apply here). There is always one team that can beat the other. But in this case there are a lot more combinations of teams, more like a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock game :p.

With less number of players, its more like a rock-scissors game, where one team always beats the other. With more number of players, there are more possibilities.

Actually when I look back at my own post, the paragraph that you quoted doesn't make too much sense so if you're confused then I totally get it.

Why don't you realize one simple fact, nobody would play as paper then, neither anybody would want paper in their game, only it would work on hosted tourny or friendly matches.

You're just trying to project FFA as excuse to justify PvP disbalance.

P.s - Also let me explain basics to u. IN FFA NO CLASSES MEANT TO BE WEAK COMPARE TO OTHER, that's pretty wrong conception you have over there, every class meant to have some specific advantages and disadvantages not weak or strong as a whole.

[iceQueen69]

Stop trying to fix the game, and fix yourselves. You're all not as good as me, because if you were you'd know that you can beat anyone with anything.

Gladiator out.

[Bazinga!]

Omg I give up on Waug....

[Burningdex]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?28825-The-general-guide-on-end-game-team-mechanics

i agree, endgame is a broken, gesr and luck based mess. But as much as i hate to say it, no mather how hard we try, nothing is going to change. Even after countless suggestions by most active forumers, nothing has changed.. Can we all just agree to disagree and leave the suggestions for another time? The Devs arent going to fix anything for a long
time (if at all)

ps: can you all get off your ego's not a good look
for any of you

[Waug]

Stop trying to fix the game, and fix yourselves. You're all not as good as me, because if you were you'd know that you can beat anyone with anything.

Gladiator out.
Yes yes, in ur dream xD

[Bazinga!]

I made some changes to the post based on all the comments. Still sticking to my ideology, just adding some necessary information.

[Sheugokin]

I couldn't find such statement of mine anywhere, could u find it for me? Then we can talk about it.lol

BTW, this is not a discussion between go n ffa system

The next time you are IG, I can screenshot it for you when you complain about it. I don't think you can deny that at one point you claimed that many mages "hide more than <Family>"


Also I want to address the entire dodge issue:

So if we were to significantly repress the dodge percentage then what we will get with the current state of the damages we deal is even more extreme button-mashing.
It becomes who deals the most damage first which brings us back to the Fiery vs Fiery mage fights: literally drain then fire. Dead. That also isn't fun at all.

To an extent, dodge does make some fights more fun. TO AN EXTENT. Without dodge, mages, for example, would soon find the combo maximizing healing timing and nuking timing. Eventually, we come back to the routine combos and then it becomes boring.

So what does this call for then? More HP, less damage? That is essentially saying we should nerf all the important stats (DMG, Dodge, Spell Damage, Crit). I don't think that's reasonable IMO, which brings me to the conclusion:

There is no winning. (Sorry I'm kinda a pessimist but there is a fine line between pessimism and realism :) )

[Waug]

The next time you are IG, I can screenshot it for you when you complain about it. I don't think you can deny that at one point you claimed that many mages "hide more than <Family>"


Also I want to address the entire dodge issue:

So if we were to significantly repress the dodge percentage then what we will get with the current state of the damages we deal is even more extreme button-mashing.
It becomes who deals the most damage first which brings us back to the Fiery vs Fiery mage fights: literally drain then fire. Dead. That also isn't fun at all.

To an extent, dodge does make some fights more fun. TO AN EXTENT. Without dodge, mages, for example, would soon find the combo maximizing healing timing and nuking timing. Eventually, we come back to the routine combos and then it becomes boring.

So what does this call for then? More HP, less damage? That is essentially saying we should nerf all the important stats (DMG, Dodge, Spell Damage, Crit). I don't think that's reasonable IMO, which brings me to the conclusion:

There is no winning. (Sorry I'm kinda a pessimist but there is a fine line between pessimism and realism :) )

Lol, now as you could not found such statement here, you're now referring IG, But as you projected ur words, it seemed ur talked about this thread. -


@Waug- I just find your statement very hypocritical

Now as for in game, I don't even bother to say something LOGICAL, I prefer forum for this, BECAUSE what ever the logic is, 'cry' is the actual answer from everyone, game is perfect place to troll but less talk on fights n action.

Although, I won't derail the main topic here and we'll discuss about treeing later.

Now, the more and more you guys talking, ya clearing it out your mentality about the class mage and it seems mage is the epi center of everything, you can't deny it after saying all those things, ofc mages OP, ofc 90% endgame community play with mages, so ofc ur blind love to the class is justified.

Here's the factual part, when I suggested dodge nerf -

1> I didn't even mentioned about opness of any particular class.

2> Universal endgame set dodge nerf from all Endgame items, means DODGE NERF from DEX and STR too, not even asked to cut more dodge from int.

3> Bird & bears dodges too, bear should dodge but dodging close to 100 couldn't be justified.

4> I referred armor as replacement of dodge that means when dodge is nerfed, armor should be added to prevent 2 hit kills. The hypocritical part is 1h kill do exist in game, but u ignore that because mages don't get that but mages have extreme damge.

Open up ur minds, don't be so much narrow minded. Dodge has been the best excuse of so called old gen being the enemy of skill, has been stated on forums and in games extreme amount of times, but how funny it is, even all those ppls support that dodge now for sake of argument and more important to protect the unskillfull opness, even though its not attact on mages and their opness.

#ShhhhaaaeeiimONcomuniti
And don't provoke me to stat and prove and make (hypo) nerf mages. Thx.

[humiiii]

Very interesting thread. I read everything and to sumarize, I'd say that...Waug writes a lot

[iceQueen69]

Very interesting thread. I read everything and to sumarize, I'd say that...Waug writes a lot

Yes, but I got the most rep per word written and thus my words are the most valuable in this thread.

[Burningdex]

Yes, but I got the most rep per word written and thus my words are the most valuable in this thread.

Just cracked up reading that, ily

[Sheugokin]

Lol, now as you could not found such statement here, you're now referring IG, But as you projected ur words, it seemed ur talked about this thread. -



Now as for in game, I don't even bother to say something LOGICAL, I prefer forum for this, BECAUSE what ever the logic is, 'cry' is the actual answer from everyone, game is perfect place to troll but less talk on fights n action.

Although, I won't derail the main topic here and we'll discuss about treeing later.

Now, the more and more you guys talking, ya clearing it out your mentality about the class mage and it seems mage is the epi center of everything, you can't deny it after saying all those things, ofc mages OP, ofc 90% endgame community play with mages, so ofc ur blind love to the class is justified.

Here's the factual part, when I suggested dodge nerf -

1> I didn't even mentioned about opness of any particular class.

2> Universal endgame set dodge nerf from all Endgame items, means DODGE NERF from DEX and STR too, not even asked to cut more dodge from int.

3> Bird & bears dodges too, bear should dodge but dodging close to 100 couldn't be justified.

4> I referred armor as replacement of dodge that means when dodge is nerfed, armor should be added to prevent 2 hit kills. The hypocritical part is 1h kill do exist in game, but u ignore that because mages don't get that but mages have extreme damge.

Open up ur minds, don't be so much narrow minded. Dodge has been the best excuse of so called old gen being the enemy of skill, has been stated on forums and in games extreme amount of times, but how funny it is, even all those ppls support that dodge now for sake of argument and more important to protect the unskillfull opness, even though its not attact on mages and their opness.

#ShhhhaaaeeiimONcomuniti
And don't provoke me to stat and prove and make (hypo) nerf mages. Thx.

Waug I don't know where you learned English, but certainly in the United States, we don't write like that. In fact, I can safely assume that English is not grammatically written in the way you currently are writing in. It is beyond confusing with the incorrect use of vocabulary and the random punctuation marks. In addition your chain of thought in a sentences interrupts another chain of thought and I just can't follow you. Can you please either use simpler sentences or write more logically? There is no need for flowery language or complex syntax if you cannot utilize them in a correct manner; in fact, it may detract from your overall message.

I simply cannot understand you to offer my two cents on your critique.

And for the little portion that I did understand, I only play mage: that does not mean I do not see the perspective from the other classes in particular bears and birds. I understand mages are OP at the moment; I don't believe I ever denied that fact, and if I did, I stand corrected. Furthermore, let's travel down memory lane when there were times where bears one shotted both mages and birds during the 76 and 77 cap. Don't you think it's a little fitting for mages and birds to have their chance (birds haven't gotten there yet...poor birdies) in OPness?

Waug, I can assure you one thing: mages still need skill to excel in FFA situations. I will argue anyone on that fact.

The most efficient way to weed out the good from the bad mages is to place them in a CTF game with balanced team; not through the 1v1 "Go"-system.

[Waug]

In one sentence, you ingroned the points because as usual those points r so much logically correct that you don't have any logical point against it, and this time poor English is the excuse :)

I've learned English from pl, you guys could not teach me well I see.

[Burningdex]

In one sentence, you ingroned the points because as usual those points r so much logically correct that you don't have any logical point against it, and this time poor English is the excuse :)

I've learned English from pl, you guys could not teach me well I see.


If you actually learnt english from a 6year old phone game, i
would legitimately be impressed

[KingFu]

i think pvp is good but it needs fixing

first i think they should remove dodge and replace it with a new stat called freeze. freeze will prevent ur character from doing anything until you click the screen 10 times. freeze will be a %. this would be good because freeze would take out some of the luck of dodge but also still have some. freeze would also add skill mixed with luck bc if you get lucky to freeze other guy it still requires skill to click screen fast. like how lonearcher used ot be good.

the other thing is to remove vanities from pvp. vanities show wealth of players either in game or irl. bc of that vaniites create different social classes in pvp. watch join pvp game with no vanity u get rushed 10 times out of 10 times. removing vanities means everyone is on an equal playing field. some may say this is communist pvp but i think it'd help make more fun for everyone.

also make everyone have same skills. add beckon stomp rage and iron blood from bear fire lightning mana shield and rev from mage and repulse root blast and focus from bird. ignore rhino and fox bc no one plays those. now everyone has same skills and basicly have one class like dl which everyone knows is best sts game. now everyone is equal with same skills and no fancy vanity.

also remove trees bc screw foliage.

go pl go

[XghostzX]

i think pvp is good but it needs fixing

first i think they should remove dodge and replace it with a new stat called freeze. freeze will prevent ur character from doing anything until you click the screen 10 times. freeze will be a %. this would be good because freeze would take out some of the luck of dodge but also still have some. freeze would also add skill mixed with luck bc if you get lucky to freeze other guy it still requires skill to click screen fast. like how lonearcher used ot be good.

the other thing is to remove vanities from pvp. vanities show wealth of players either in game or irl. bc of that vaniites create different social classes in pvp. watch join pvp game with no vanity u get rushed 10 times out of 10 times. removing vanities means everyone is on an equal playing field. some may say this is communist pvp but i think it'd help make more fun for everyone.

also make everyone have same skills. add beckon stomp rage and iron blood from bear fire lightning mana shield and rev from mage and repulse root blast and focus from bird. ignore rhino and fox bc no one plays those. now everyone has same skills and basicly have one class like dl which everyone knows is best sts game. now everyone is equal with same skills and no fancy vanity.

also remove trees bc screw foliage.

go pl go

I gave u a thx and thumbs up +100

[Priorema]

Sts should add free Ffa map, as all 6 or 10 players join, match starts and you if you dont Ffa, you get +1 death every 5 secs lol

[Buchmeister]

Why doesn't STS disable public chat in pvp arenas? No more need to say go. People don't really talk anyways besides trash talking and saying go so if got rid of it, all you'd need to focus on is fighting. Not to mention it would makes games go quicker. If you have a problem with someone, PM them and duke it out in a 1v1 arena.

[iceQueen69]

I gave u a thx and thumbs up +100

but then u can't use ur founders

how will u ever beat ffabrutal without it?

[XghostzX]

but then u can't use ur founders

how will u ever beat ffabrutal without it?

idk man maybe i can blackmail cinco into giving me some kind of advantage

[PartayHat]

i think pvp is good but it needs fixing

first i think they should remove dodge and replace it with a new stat called freeze. freeze will prevent ur character from doing anything until you click the screen 10 times. freeze will be a %. this would be good because freeze would take out some of the luck of dodge but also still have some. freeze would also add skill mixed with luck bc if you get lucky to freeze other guy it still requires skill to click screen fast. like how lonearcher used ot be good.

the other thing is to remove vanities from pvp. vanities show wealth of players either in game or irl. bc of that vaniites create different social classes in pvp. watch join pvp game with no vanity u get rushed 10 times out of 10 times. removing vanities means everyone is on an equal playing field. some may say this is communist pvp but i think it'd help make more fun for everyone.

also make everyone have same skills. add beckon stomp rage and iron blood from bear fire lightning mana shield and rev from mage and repulse root blast and focus from bird. ignore rhino and fox bc no one plays those. now everyone has same skills and basicly have one class like dl which everyone knows is best sts game. now everyone is equal with same skills and no fancy vanity.

also remove trees bc screw foliage.

go pl go
Cinco needs to see that

[Buchmeister]

i think pvp is good but it needs fixing

first i think they should remove dodge and replace it with a new stat called freeze. freeze will prevent ur character from doing anything until you click the screen 10 times. freeze will be a %. this would be good because freeze would take out some of the luck of dodge but also still have some. freeze would also add skill mixed with luck bc if you get lucky to freeze other guy it still requires skill to click screen fast. like how lonearcher used ot be good.

the other thing is to remove vanities from pvp. vanities show wealth of players either in game or irl. bc of that vaniites create different social classes in pvp. watch join pvp game with no vanity u get rushed 10 times out of 10 times. removing vanities means everyone is on an equal playing field. some may say this is communist pvp but i think it'd help make more fun for everyone.

also make everyone have same skills. add beckon stomp rage and iron blood from bear fire lightning mana shield and rev from mage and repulse root blast and focus from bird. ignore rhino and fox bc no one plays those. now everyone has same skills and basicly have one class like dl which everyone knows is best sts game. now everyone is equal with same skills and no fancy vanity.

also remove trees bc screw foliage.

go pl go

Removing vanities is a horrible idea. Firstly, the opponent can see your gear so if they know their stats, they have an advantage. I never put vanities on my 22 up until a week or two ago, and I never got rushed. Secondly, I like having the privilege to wear something I earned or saved up to buy, if you don't have the cash for vanities, oh well.

[Burningdex]

Removing vanities is a horrible idea. Firstly, the opponent can see your gear so if they know their stats, they have an advantage. I never put vanities on my 22 up until a week or two ago, and I never got rushed. Secondly, I like having the privilege to wear something I earned or saved up to buy, if you don't have the cash for vanities, oh well.

Was laced with sarcasm

[XghostzX]

Removing vanities is a horrible idea. Firstly, the opponent can see your gear so if they know their stats, they have an advantage. I never put vanities on my 22 up until a week or two ago, and I never got rushed. Secondly, I like having the privilege to wear something I earned or saved up to buy, if you don't have the cash for vanities, oh well.

I knew this was coming lmao

[Buchmeister]

I knew this was coming lmao

I thought you would agree with him :T

[Waug]

Removing vanities is a horrible idea. Firstly, the opponent can see your gear so if they know their stats, they have an advantage. I never put vanities on my 22 up until a week or two ago, and I never got rushed. Secondly, I like having the privilege to wear something I earned or saved up to buy, if you don't have the cash for vanities, oh well.

U missed the nice sarcasm and it's not really nice intent behind, infect though I always expect the whole community go against my nice idea that they themself asked for long (high dodge nerf), its as expected and nothing wrong in it to oppose as I'm asking this time and this time dodge supported their favourite class. That's the reason I'm saying tht this time the hypocritical point got its peak, when they all together either support high dodge now (ironny is they all hated high dodge in past) and describe this as just negligible like a small issue that has been always with pl. Though many more to come and oppose the idea, then the fun would be at its peak though :)

[Bazinga!]

XD @ Kingfu. But on a more serious note, I think we should have different gear that reduces the enemy's dodge, crit and hit. Like one set that reduces dodge, one set that reduces crit and another that reduces hit, for each stat (INT, STR and DEX). Or maybe rings can do this as well (Read the last part of the thread where I introduced this).

I dunno how this will turn out but it looks like it might be interesting. Also it completely rules out the 'go' system because your team mate's gear affects your enemy's performance.

[Buchmeister]

U missed the nice sarcasm and it's not really nice intent behind, infect though I always expect the whole community go against my nice issue fixing idea, its as expected and nothing wrong in it, but this time the hypocritical point got its peak, when they all together either support high dodge now (ironny is they all hated high dodge in past) and describe this as just negligible like a small issue that has been always with pl. Though many more to come and oppose the idea, then the fun would be at its peak though :)

You do know that sarcasm doesn't work with text?

[Sheugokin]

U missed the nice sarcasm and it's not really nice intent behind, infect though I always expect the whole community go against my nice issue fixing idea, its as expected and nothing wrong in it, but this time the hypocritical point got its peak, when they all together either support high dodge now (ironny is they all hated high dodge in past) and describe this as just negligible like a small issue that has been always with pl. Though many more to come and oppose the idea, then the fun would be at its peak though :)

Let me dissect this because apparently you think you are perfectly understandable. Please explain what does "it's" refer to. Are you saying that Glad's post was not nice or that Buch's wasn't nice? Infect = In fact?

Onto logical reasoning and flow of ideas: you say that "this time the hypocritical point got its peak," which I am assuming you mean that we are going too far with our statements that they are becoming hypocritical. However, may I ask what removing vanities have to do with us supporting high dodge? I really really lost you there.

Hypocrisy is defined as act or acts that directly oppose to your words/actions. Let me give you an example: when you say that mages "hide more than <Family> and then you go ahead and hide in the following fights, that is hypocrisy, and thus you would be hypocritical. This is "supposedly" a hypothetical situation, but I beg to differ; that statement, in it of itself is a different discussion.

Okay, so now, does wearing or not wearing vanities directly oppose to our support of high dodge? I don't see the connection here Waug.

Also, as a general rule of thumb, the word "all" is too general. Do you know everyone's opinion on high dodge? It may even be a stretch to say most of us hated high dodge: you think the majority of bears in 76/77 cap hated high dodge? Don't judge everyone is the bottom line.

The last thing I would like to point out is the ambiguity in "though many more to come." Who or even what are you referring to; in other words, who or what is coming? Are the people who support your dodge nerf coming en masse or are the people who oppose your dodge nerf coming?

I haven't mentioned the EXTREMELY long-winded sentences with odd placement of punctuation. One sentence literally conveyed so many different things in such a disjointed manner: I lost you before the second comma.


Thankfully, your post is quite short, so I can do this critique because the previous posts have been verbose and circumlocutory. In merely three lines of text, not only are people confused, but also turned off by your language. Please Waug, explain your points in SIMPLER ways. PLEASE. I want to hear what you want to say, just convey it with more succinct and logical phrases.

[Sheugokin]

In one sentence, you ingroned the points because as usual those points r so much logically correct that you don't have any logical point against it, and this time poor English is the excuse :)

I've learned English from pl, you guys could not teach me well I see.

Sorry for the double post, but I didn't find anything major in this post that I could not understand (just one spelling mistake which I totally understand). THIS IS WHAT YOUR POSTS SHOULD BE; simple. SIMPLE.

[Burningdex]

Sorry for the double post, but I didn't find anything major in this post that I could not understand (just one spelling mistake which I totally understand). THIS IS WHAT YOUR POSTS SHOULD BE; simple. SIMPLE.

Shoe, you're England is worstest

[Waug]

Well, well it's not English only, you need to use ur brain to get the classy things. But you want it to be simple then, totally focus on this and make analogy of it -

The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason? Because this time dodge favoured OPness of mage? Sake of argument? Or for what?

[Bazinga!]

Well, well it's not English only, you need to use ur brain to get the classy things. But you want it to be simple then, totally focus on this and make analogy of it -

The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason? Because this time dodge favoured OPness of mage? Sake of argument? Or for what?

What's with you and dodge? Don't you realise that birds have more dodge than mages when buffed? I've seen you play lately and all you do is rush in and spam skills and hope that the opponent dies. Maybe if you knew how to play bird, I would give your posts some credibility, disregarding how badly you're posts are constructed.

[Sheugokin]

Well, well it's not English only, you need to use ur brain to get the classy things. But you want it to be simple then, totally focus on this and make analogy of it -

The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason? Because this time dodge favoured OPness of mage? Sake of argument? Or for what?

An analogy is a comparison between two ideas or things. They can be similar or opposing, but there is something that ultimately connects them. Where is the analogy? When did I fully support it? I also claimed it was OP.

And what are your last two questions asking; again, dangling modifiers/phrases. Does "Sake of argument" refer to my argument that indeed mages are OP? or does it refer to yours? WHO IS ARGUING WHAT; BE CLEAR.........

Or for what? WHAT IS THIS EVEN SAYING? Waug, you have quite a condescending tone, but you can't even justify it (not like a condescending tone is ever justified, but you don't give a valid attempt in using it).

And why are you criticizing my brain? How much do you even know about me? Currently I am a freshman at Princeton University with a full ride; I don't think my brain is the issue. In fact, if you say my brain needs to get these so-called "classy (awkward use of the word) things," then I am assuming that you think much of the community have some sort of problem with their brain as well because they, too, cannot understand your English well.


ALSO, how would I understand these "classy things" if you cannot use language to convey your ideas. I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR LOGIC. What do you want me to do? Speak your native tongue?

I am trying my very best to not stoop to your level and start criticizing you with some very untrue statements. Be careful what you write, especially online, because it never really gets deleted from the forums.

[Waug]

What's with you and dodge? Don't you realise that birds have more dodge than mages when buffed? I've seen you play lately and all you do is rush in and spam skills and hope that the opponent dies. Maybe if you knew how to play bird, I would give your posts some credibility, disregarding how badly you're posts are constructed.

And you talked about FFA system all the time. Birds had dodge buff since beginning, mages never had that because they have other buffs, don't try to manipulate the simple fact.

The rest of the post is just a 'rage post' & tbh my posts are always full of logics and to the point, go read those back. It's different matter that you don't have nothing nogical to say against it now. Thx

[Waug]

An analogy is a comparison between two ideas or things. They can be similar or opposing, but there is something that ultimately connects them. Where is the analogy? When did I fully support it? I also claimed it was OP.

And what are your last two questions asking; again, dangling modifiers/phrases. Does "Sake of argument" refer to my argument that indeed mages are OP? or does it refer to yours? WHO IS ARGUING WHAT; BE CLEAR.........

Or for what? WHAT IS THIS EVEN SAYING? Waug, you have quite a condescending tone, but you can't even justify it (not like a condescending tone is ever justified, but you don't give a valid attempt in using it).

And why are you criticizing my brain? How much do you even know about me? Currently I am a freshman at Princeton University with a full ride; I don't think my brain is the issue. In fact, if you say my brain needs to get these so-called "classy (awkward use of the word) things," then I am assuming that you think much of the community have some sort of problem with their brain as well because they, too, cannot understand your English well.


ALSO, how would I understand these "classy things" if you cannot use language to convey your ideas. I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR LOGIC. What do you want me to do? Speak your native tongue?

I am trying my very best to not stoop to your level and start criticizing you with some very untrue statements. Be careful what you write, especially online, because it never really gets deleted from the forums.

Calm down, and this long post didn't answer any of that I asked -


The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason?

Take ur time & answer, and I've edited out my assumptions now, so that you can answer freely.

[Bazinga!]

And you talked about FFA system all the time. Birds had dodge buff since beginning, mages never had that because they have other buffs, don't try to manipulate the simple fact.

The rest of the post is just a 'rage post' & tbh my posts are always full of logics and to the point, go read those back. It's different matter that you don't have nothing nogical to say against it now. Thx

You're the only person who has posted in this thread without really saying anything. What does this post even mean? What does me talking about FFA have to do with your inability to play bird? You stated that birds always had a dodge buff and mages never had one. OK so you stated a fact... What are you trying to imply though; that birds are more over-powered than mages? And how am I trying to manipulate this fact?

The last part of your post just cracked me up lmao. Your posts are neither logical nor do they get to any sort of 'point'. Rather they just cause more and more questions to arise. You're only concern is about dodge. According to you, dodge makes a class overpowered. So going by your logic, birds are more powerful than mages. That's logic for you; analysing the cause and the effect. What you're doing is posting nonsense and claiming that your posts are correct and undeniable and trying to get someone to believe you.

[Burningdex]

University with a full ride
is that like, the equivalent of a scholarship?

to add to the thread:

[Bazinga!]

Full ride is like the best scholarship I think.

[Waug]

You're the only person who has posted in this thread without really saying anything. What does this post even mean? What does me talking about FFA have to do with your inability to play bird? You stated that birds always had a dodge buff and mages never had one. OK so you stated a fact... What are you trying to imply though; that birds are more over-powered than mages? And how am I trying to manipulate this fact?

The last part of your post just cracked me up lmao. Your posts are neither logical nor do they get to any sort of 'point'. Rather they just cause more and more questions to arise. You're only concern is about dodge. According to you, dodge makes a class overpowered. So going by your logic, birds are more powerful than mages. That's logic for you; analysing the cause and the effect. What you're doing is posting nonsense and claiming that your posts are correct and undeniable and trying to get someone to believe you.

Other than blaming my bird playing inability and calling my posts nonsense which u couldn't prove in any way any form, you actually have two points in ur post, I'll address that.

First you trying to put words on my mouth and then getting into conclusion judging those words, first find those words from my posts in this thread quote and talk, I didn't said that dodge makes something op the way ur trying to project, then bear would be op-est class, case close.

When you talk about team play FFA, you should know that the advantage and disadvantages of different classes, bird has dodge buff, mages has OTHER BUFFS, everyone don't do same thing on a FFA rather than everybody have unique role, there's the role comes into play, somebody do high damage, somebody heals, somebody tank etc etc.

[Burningdex]

Bear tank
mage heal
bird kill

ffa in a nutshell

[Bazinga!]

Other than blaming my bird playing inability and calling my posts nonsense which u couldn't prove in any way any form, you actually have two points in ur post, I'll address that.

First you trying to put words on my mouth and then getting into conclusion judging those words, first find those words from my posts in this thread quote and talk, I didn't said that dodge makes something op the way ur trying to project, then bear would be op-est class, case close.

When you talk about team play FFA, you should know that the advantage and disadvantages of different classes, bird has dodge buff, mages has OTHER BUFFS, everyone don't do same thing on a FFA rather than everybody have unique role, there's the role comes into play, somebody do high damage, somebody heals, somebody tank etc etc.

Your inability to play bird is proof that your posts are nonsense.

[Waug]

Your inability to play bird is proof that your posts are nonsense.

This logic itself doesn't make any kinda sense, rather than I think, does it shows the inability of bring up solid points against my posts?

Anyway, I don't want but let's just say, increase the view count of this video -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWva6eBVDdY

[XghostzX]

Let me dissect this because apparently you think you are perfectly understandable. Please explain what does "it's" refer to. Are you saying that Glad's post was not nice or that Buch's wasn't nice? Infect = In fact?

Onto logical reasoning and flow of ideas: you say that "this time the hypocritical point got its peak," which I am assuming you mean that we are going too far with our statements that they are becoming hypocritical. However, may I ask what removing vanities have to do with us supporting high dodge? I really really lost you there.

Hypocrisy is defined as act or acts that directly oppose to your words/actions. Let me give you an example: when you say that mages "hide more than <Family> and then you go ahead and hide in the following fights, that is hypocrisy, and thus you would be hypocritical. This is "supposedly" a hypothetical situation, but I beg to differ; that statement, in it of itself is a different discussion.

Okay, so now, does wearing or not wearing vanities directly oppose to our support of high dodge? I don't see the connection here Waug.

Also, as a general rule of thumb, the word "all" is too general. Do you know everyone's opinion on high dodge? It may even be a stretch to say most of us hated high dodge: you think the majority of bears in 76/77 cap hated high dodge? Don't judge everyone is the bottom line.

The last thing I would like to point out is the ambiguity in "though many more to come." Who or even what are you referring to; in other words, who or what is coming? Are the people who support your dodge nerf coming en masse or are the people who oppose your dodge nerf coming?

I haven't mentioned the EXTREMELY long-winded sentences with odd placement of punctuation. One sentence literally conveyed so many different things in such a disjointed manner: I lost you before the second comma.


Thankfully, your post is quite short, so I can do this critique because the previous posts have been verbose and circumlocutory. In merely three lines of text, not only are people confused, but also turned off by your language. Please Waug, explain your points in SIMPLER ways. PLEASE. I want to hear what you want to say, just convey it with more succinct and logical phrases.

Your posts are making me moist Sheu

[anahadaz]

Decided to visit forums today, didn't expect to see 4 pages of essays on how to fix pvp in a dead game.

[PartayHat]

Just stop saying dead game ur so annyoing...

[anahadaz]

Just stop saying dead game ur so annyoing...
If you're directing that towards me, I apologize, and promise to stop being so "annyoing". I have no problem with what's being said in this discussion and I have respect for the people with solid arguments, I just find it weird that this is still going. Trust me, I don't want it to be dead by any means.

[XghostzX]

If you're directing that towards me, I apologize, and promise to stop being so "annyoing". I have no problem with what's being said in this discussion and I have respect for the people with solid arguments, I just find it weird that this is still going. Trust me, I don't want it to be dead by any means.

To be fair, Ana, the devs have been relatively more active and engaged with the PL community since the Halloween update.

But otherwise, yeah. I never really suspected they'd put time into tweaking the stats.

[anahadaz]

To be fair, Ana, the devs have been relatively more active and engaged with the PL community since the Halloween update.

That's a good point, and props to them.

[Sheugokin]

Calm down, and this long post didn't answer any of that I asked -

Take ur time & answer, and I've edited out my assumptions now, so that you can answer freely.


You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.

[SillyJuan]

I'm making this thread because there are so many threads about the imbalance in PvP but in my opinion, most of them are missing the point. And it is not like I haven't made one of these before. In my frustration, even I have failed to see the actual problem. I recently looked at OPest's thread about nerfing dodge, which is a good idea if done appropriately. But the total elimination of dodge as he mentioned is something that will cause a lot of problems the way I look at it.

If you think about the PvP arenas, they aren't called 'Team Deathmatch' for no reason. They are meant for 3 v 3 FFAs. If you look back, there were relatively less (and I'm not saying there weren't any) posts about PvP imbalance before the 76 cap. Rather than talking about how one class was unfair, people talked about the best way to counteract that class. It was only after the 76 cap that there was an increase in the number of posts regarding PvP imbalance. So what was different before and after the 76 cap?

Before the 76 cap, the game got regular updates and expansions. There were enough people to make at least 4 full PvP games at level cap. When one player left, another one came in almost immediately. There were enough players to have a full fledged FFA match.

The 76 cap was the last expansion for the next 2.5 years. STS started drifting away from PL and so did players, naturally. PvP became more dependent on the go system and more stupid rules like 'no running' and 'no using trees' came into the picture. I mean come on, I'm sure STS put trees there for the sole purpose of hiding.

When you exclude movement, hiding and team play, it all boils down to comparing stats. And in the 76 cap, bears had more than 100 hit, the most armour and the most dodge out of all classes and therefore they dominated (or rather the STR class in general dominated). But the fact is that bears are supposed to be the tank in a 3 v 3 match and mages and birds could run around and hide if they wanted, not run straight into the battle.

All in all, the main problem is the domination of the GO system, as a result of a declining player base.

If there is one thing I wish STS could have done to sort PvP imbalance out, it is to introduce different types of sets. For example, when STS created MAGOR / ARZAC / WARAT, they did it so that they became better than the current sets, not because it could be used in a strategically different manner.
This type of item creation can be seen at every level starting from 61. And forget about item creation; after 66 there was literally only one set to wear for each class. Variety in gear can be found in lower levels like 15 but still not to the extent that it should be varied. Unfortunately I'm not a fan of playing with only four skills, other wise I would have been playing AL right now, not writing this post :p.

Conclusion:
After reading through all the posts and thoughts on this topic again, I realise that the problem of statistical imbalances cannot be completely avoided, although I would still say that it can be significantly reduced by having team FFAs, which is the way it is supposed to be, instead of turn by turn individual battles.

I've bolded out the changes I made. I hope this answers some of the arguments made.

Totally agree with you, some type of new mode? Lets say 3v3 and only allow the game to start until the whole quo on each team is filled up or if a player leaves just immediately end the game at that moment. Feel like more support classes like rhino or other quick and kill classes like foxes and birds could potentially be used if this could possibly happen. Ahh but that's not the case, lets just rush people and continue to war on like it has been for the past 3 years. And complain and ask for more. Or altogether lose some hope in this game. Regardless pocket legends will be a memorable game for a lot of us and will be keep quitting and coming back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Congeniality]

You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.

#getrekt <3 #tothenextdimension

[XghostzX]

You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.


This is the greatest thing I have ever heard you say. I'm proud to have you as a friend

[Sheugokin]

Full ride is like the best scholarship I think.

Very humbled to accept such an honor (I have a stipend per semester, and I could invite you guys out for some food if you visit!) :)

I worked hard and being first-generation, low-income I am proud to go to Pton :) And no, not everyone who goes to Princeton is the elite top 1% of society. And no, they aren't all stuck-up, disgusting people that we are perceived to be.



#getrekt <3 #tothenextdimension

Heheh XD


This is the greatest thing I have ever heard you say. I'm proud to have you as a friend

Thanks Will! :) I was just watching Interstellar for the first time today and I guess the dimension stuff got to my head. I can assure you that that movie made me realize my noobness in physics (more of a chemistry/bio person :) )

[Waug]

You are telling me to calm down? Waug, most of the community cannot understand you and you go around using your language to insult others? Please learn English first and then criticize someone for something. Im trying not to get an infraction because I can and will roast you to the next dimension. I'm trying to be civilized and answer your questions while shoving the derogatory comments to the back of my head.

As to answer your questions that I supposedly did not answer. I asked in my previous posts where did I support OP dodge? Can you quote me without manipulating my words?

The last sentence of the post I quoted here states that I need to answer the questions that you ask. Don't you think it is quite hypocritical (take note here, this is the correct usage of the word) for you to not answer my posts filled with questions? You barely answered any of mine, why should I begin answering yours?

Just for your information to perhaps underscore your English and your need for improvement in said language: the word "assumption" is used wrong. What assumptions did you make that you now revised? Assumptions are hypotheses based on little to no evidence. So are you saying that your theory on the OPness of dodge has little to no evidence to back it up? Well then, you sold your own argument short if you know what this idiom means. In other words, you aren't completely invested in your ideas.


Waug, your posts are full of passive-aggressive comments (please use a dictionary with examples to understand what is passive-aggressiveness) and I can assure you that many people here are completely fed up with them.

You can have your opinions, yes, this is an open forum, but please be aware that others have other opinions and to treat them with such disrespect and a subtle undertone of contempt is very offputting to me and to other viewers. Do not respond telling me to calm down, I'm very calm in fact. I just want you to know to be careful with your words again.

Again this long worthless post that couldn't answer my simple questions -



The community complained about dodge for long, now dodge is itself at it's peak (simple - highest dodge than ever now) rather than complaing about the dodge why ya trying to support it? What's the reason?


For now I'd conclude this in one sentence, if someone or bunch of people complained about high dodge since long then it would be hypocritical for em either to support high dodge now or stating high dodge as something negligible.

My point PROVED, that I stated about hypocrisy.
Or still you've answer of the questions?

Other than the fact, the last posts of yours and I think 90% of your total posts in this thread is just PERSONAL ATTCACT & you're stating my posts as insult? Whereas I mostly talked about the topic to the point and logical.

You're studying that's good, you should learn to debate in a factual & logical way not by doing personal attack and if you do that doesn't prove anything at the end, you not only loose but also get bad reputation, that's not a good quality of a student.

If you think my post are to insult others report & let the mods decide even though I don't report posts mostly even if its insult to an extent so I won't report yours don't worry.

I'd again suggest you to stay calm, cheers ;)

[Burningdex]

Again this long worthless post that couldn't answer my simple questions -



For now I'd conclude this in one sentence, if someone or bunch of people complained about high dodge since long then it would be hypocritical for em either to support high dodge now or stating high dodge as something negligible.

My point PROVED, that I stated about hypocrisy.
Or still you've answer of the questions?

Other than the fact, the last posts of yours and I think 90% of your total posts in this thread is just PERSONAL ATTCACT & you're stating my posts as insult? Whereas I mostly talked about the topic to the point and logical.

You're studying that's good, you should learn to debate in a factual & logical way not by doing personal attack and if you do that doesn't prove anything at the end, you not only loose but also get bad reputation, that's not a good quality of a student.

If you think my post are to insult others report & let the mods decide even though I don't report posts mostly even if its insult to an extent so I won't report yours don't worry.

I'd again suggest you to stay calm, cheers ;)


That made less sense than my essays, honestly dont know what i read, minus: "cheers"

[Sheugokin]

Again this long worthless post that couldn't answer my simple questions -



For now I'd conclude this in one sentence, if someone or bunch of people complained about high dodge since long then it would be hypocritical for em either to support high dodge now or stating high dodge as something negligible.

My point PROVED, that I stated about hypocrisy.
Or still you've answer of the questions?

Other than the fact, the last posts of yours and I think 90% of your total posts in this thread is just PERSONAL ATTCACT & you're stating my posts as insult? Whereas I mostly talked about the topic to the point and logical.

You're studying that's good, you should learn to debate in a factual & logical way not by doing personal attack and if you do that doesn't prove anything at the end, you not only loose but also get bad reputation, that's not a good quality of a student.

If you think my post are to insult others report & let the mods decide even though I don't report posts mostly even if its insult to an extent so I won't report yours don't worry.

I'd again suggest you to stay calm, cheers ;)

In every facet of this sentence, you, Waug, are the one desperately in need of enlightenment. You are the one that needs to study and to learn. There I said it.

And also, I am not going to answer any of your incoherent questions until you answer my questions I posed. Until then, I think you have exhausted my patience. "Cheers"

P.S. I strongly advise you to either buy or go to the library and borrow books on grammar and diction. I can even suggests books for you to check out.

[Bazinga!]

This logic itself doesn't make any kinda sense, rather than I think, does it shows the inability of bring up solid points against my posts?


How does it not make sense? It's very much a solid point. There are better ways to play the bird class than you play it. The problems you are stating about high dodge and too much damage come as a result of not knowing how to get in and out of range. And on top of that you are one person that gets teamed up against in every match. You absolutely cannot expect to win against two or more players, however good you think you are.

I play bird at 76 and the other day I was in a 2 v 2 against a pally and an int mage, and I had an int mage on my team. Sometimes the dodge became so frustrating, but at the end of the match I would always find my team winning. That's the difference between a go match and an FFA match. That's the exact same point I've been trying to convey (at least to you, because most of the others get it) since the start.

[Suentous PO]

Five pages later it turns out Waug is a 28 year old white dude from Idaho who speaks perfect English and trolls you all day

XD

[Waug]

Enough!!

Time to be egoistic.

Someone who - ["I play bird at 76" - aka op phase of phoenix bird] is trying to teach me bird, having close to HALF MILLION fight experience with bird class, knowing some exceptional range /bird knowledge that nobody else on pl ever discovered, having practical knowledge of in depth game mechanics mostly discovered and tested by myself, the fastest bird that pl ever got to see, who at any fair level can be a challenge against 3 and defeat higher level best players too.

The way ya trying to project your words, it shows ya out of valid logics now so either gone to do personal attact and also asking me to answer those personal attack questions or absurd logics that doesn't closely relate to the topic you're replying, thus simply its waste of my time. So unless I find any valid point, I'll try to ignore this.

Rather to drive my time to more appropriate place and as I've been provoked, I'll make devs think twice that they wanna leave the game to this dodge hub or not. Ofc if I get the time and pl hold my interest till then.

GET READY.





In every facet of this sentence, you, Waug, are the one desperately in need of enlightenment. You are the one that needs to study and to learn. There I said it.

And also, I am not going to answer any of your incoherent questions until you answer my questions I posed. Until then, I think you have exhausted my patience. "Cheers"

P.S. I strongly advise you to either buy or go to the library and borrow books on grammar and diction. I can even suggests books for you to check out.
.
.
How does it not make sense? It's very much a solid point. There are better ways to play the bird class than you play it. The problems you are stating about high dodge and too much damage come as a result of not knowing how to get in and out of range. And on top of that you are one person that gets teamed up against in every match. You absolutely cannot expect to win against two or more players, however good you think you are.

I play bird at 76 and the other day I was in a 2 v 2 against a pally and an int mage, and I had an int mage on my team. Sometimes the dodge became so frustrating, but at the end of the match I would always find my team winning. That's the difference between a go match and an FFA match. That's the exact same point I've been trying to convey (at least to you, because most of the others get it) since the start.

[Sheugokin]

Enough!!

Time to be egoistic.

Someone who - ["I play bird at 76" - aka op phase of phoenix bird] is trying to teach me bird, having close to HALF MILLION fight experience with bird class, knowing some exceptional range /bird knowledge that nobody else on pl ever discovered, having practical knowledge of in depth game mechanics mostly discovered and tested by myself, the fastest bird that pl ever got to see, who at any fair level can be a challenge against 3 and defeat higher level best players too.

The way ya trying to project your words, it shows ya out of valid logics now so either gone to do personal attact and also asking me to answer those personal attack questions or absurd logics that doesn't closely relate to the topic you're replying, thus simply its waste of my time. So unless I find any valid point, I'll try to ignore this.

Rather to drive my time to more appropriate place and as I've been provoked, I'll make devs think twice that they wanna leave the game to this dodge hub or not. Ofc if I get the time and pl hold my interest till then.

GET READY.





.
.

You must be trolling.

[XghostzX]

Very humbled to accept such an honor (I have a stipend per semester, and I could invite you guys out for some food if you visit!) :)

I worked hard and being first-generation, low-income I am proud to go to Pton :) And no, not everyone who goes to Princeton is the elite top 1% of society. And no, they aren't all stuck-up, disgusting people that we are perceived to be.




Heheh XD



Thanks Will! :) I was just watching Interstellar for the first time today and I guess the dimension stuff got to my head. I can assure you that that movie made me realize my noobness in physics (more of a chemistry/bio person :) )

Unreal movie, without a doubt one of my favorites. I suggest watching the movie "Arrival" that just came out. Deals with the concept of transcending things we consider to be simple (language in this case, sort of like how they quantified love in Interstellar).

#KeepTheRoastAlive

[Bazinga!]

Hey Sheug, let's officially stop replying Waug. We're just making him madder and madder. Besides, the devs have to deal with him now :p.


Rather to drive my time to more appropriate place and as I've been provoked, I'll make devs think twice that they wanna leave the game to this dodge hub or not. Ofc if I get the time and pl hold my interest till then

GET READY



Get ready, devs.

[Waug]

Hey Sheug, let's officially stop replying Waug. We're just getting madder and madder.
Corrected,
and sorry, I actually was feeling bad thinking about this also tried my level best not to make it too hard far a mobile game forum, that's why if u read again then u will notice that my tone got more n more soft lately until the 'enough' to end.

Enjoy happy new year NOW. It's now better condition than before. Hehe. Wish ya happy and more thoughtful new year.

[Iheybeautiful]

Corrected,
and sorry, I actually was feeling bad thinking about this also tried my level best not to make it too hard far a mobile game forum, that's why if u read again then u will notice that my tone got more n more soft lately until the 'enough' to end.

Enjoy happy new year NOW. It's now better condition than before. Hehe. Wish ya happy and more thoughtful new year.
k i mostly lurk now but i had to say it
ur posts dont make any fokin sense

[Waug]

That made less sense than my essays, honestly dont know what i read, minus: "cheers"


k i mostly lurk now but i had to say it
ur posts dont make any fokin sense

I didn't expect u to understand it either lol

[Bazinga!]

I know that I said I won't reply to you, but what are you even arguing about, Waug? Quote one place where I said that dodge IS NOT a problem. I never said that dodge isnt't a problem, but history shows that the devs are not going to do anything about stat correction. In fact my thought process started from the very fact that dodge is a problem. Here's my thought process:

Dodge is a problem > Several requests have been made to devs > Devs have not changed anything yet > Maybe there is a reason for not changing anything > What is the PvP arena meant for? > 3 V 3 FFAs > What is the current mode of PvP? > Go system > Can the community work together to reduce the problem of statistical imbalances without the interference of devs? > Maybe, by playing as a team and allowing other classes to help you. > Why isn't FFA prevalent? > Declining number of players and accustomisation to the go system.

5 pages ago I wouldn't have thought that this was necessary. Even so, I'm still expecting a post from Waug saying that my logic is wrong without stating where and why my logic is wrong.

On a side note, maybe its just me but I've noticed an increase in the number of FFAs going on in the 71 - 80 PvP bracket, which I'm pretty happy about.

[PartayHat]

I know that I said I won't reply to you, but what are you even arguing about, Waug? Quote one place where I said that dodge IS NOT a problem. I never said that dodge isnt't a problem, but history shows that the devs are not going to do anything about stat correction. In fact my thought process started from the very fact that dodge is a problem. Here's my thought process:

Dodge is a problem > Several requests have been made to devs > Devs have not changed anything yet > Maybe there is a reason for not changing anything > What is the PvP arena meant for? > 3 V 3 FFAs > What is the current mode of PvP? > Go system > Can the community work together to reduce the problem of statistical imbalances without the interference of devs? > Maybe, by playing as a team and allowing other classes to help you. > Why isn't FFA prevalent? > Declining number of players and accustomisation to the go system.

5 pages ago I wouldn't have thought that this was necessary. Even so, I'm still expecting a post from Waug saying that my logic is wrong without stating where and why my logic is wrong.

On a side note, maybe its just me but I've noticed an increase in the number of FFAs going on in the 71 - 80 PvP bracket, which I'm pretty happy about.
I like your posts Bazinga.

[Buchmeister]

Just stop saying dead game ur so annyoing...

And you people yelled at me when I said this community was pessimistic smh >.>

[Congeniality]

And you people yelled at me when I said this community was pessimistic smh >.>

Generalizing everyone into one category is a dangerous thing to be doing on an open forum, when you do that you should probably expect backlash. I appreciate you speaking your mind but try not to instantly classify a group of people as one thing or another.

It's almost always in between one thing and its opposite because nothing is truly absolutely bad or good (or optimistic vs pessimistic). All in all, expect backlash when generalizing people :)

[Waug]

I know that I said I won't reply to you, but what are you even arguing about, Waug? Quote one place where I said that dodge IS NOT a problem. I never said that dodge isnt't a problem, but history shows that the devs are not going to do anything about stat correction. In fact my thought process started from the very fact that dodge is a problem. Here's my thought process:

Dodge is a problem > Several requests have been made to devs > Devs have not changed anything yet > Maybe there is a reason for not changing anything > What is the PvP arena meant for? > 3 V 3 FFAs > What is the current mode of PvP? > Go system > Can the community work together to reduce the problem of statistical imbalances without the interference of devs? > Maybe, by playing as a team and allowing other classes to help you. > Why isn't FFA prevalent? > Declining number of players and accustomisation to the go system.

5 pages ago I wouldn't have thought that this was necessary. Even so, I'm still expecting a post from Waug saying that my logic is wrong without stating where and why my logic is wrong.

On a side note, maybe its just me but I've noticed an increase in the number of FFAs going on in the 71 - 80 PvP bracket, which I'm pretty happy about.
Go read back, from top to button, I answered, stated facts, logically proved (wheres its possible to do) go that, GO READ THAT, its waste of time to say all those things again, u first 'give up' then go personal attack then gone absurd having no logics against my posts.

Probably one new thing that has been said here by u is that devs have not change anything yet & that's why they won't change, my dear fellow they already did by adding high dodge into int set that they hardly did in past, infect same dodge as a str set.

You talking about big words of FFA mechanics and I showed you, literally proved that how you missing basic facts about FFA and using FFA as EXCUSE to justify the opness of the op-est class right now at endgame PvP.

[XghostzX]

Wow Bazina he got u gooooood




5 pages ago I wouldn't have thought that this was necessary. Even so, I'm still expecting a post from Waug saying that my logic is wrong without stating where and why my logic is wrong.






Go read back, from top to button, I answered, stated facts, logically proved (wheres its possible to do) go that, GO READ THAT, its waste of time to say all those things again, u first 'give up' then go personal attack then gone absurd having no logics against my posts.

[Fwend]

What is the problem with PVP now?

There have been many discussion threads on this issue, it's not just for end gamer's level 80 though.

We have had many suggestions from experienced PVPer's, detailed threads with the mechanics of dodge, hit , armor etc.
I'm a farmer, I really don't think anyone person's opinion is right over another. It is a matter of perspective.

Any improvements STS make on sets, stats will greatly effect the dynamics of Pvp and has to be trialled and tested, again even then it will not make everyone happy.

I feel the real issue with PVP now it the attitude of players.

The trash talk is unnecessary. Then there is rushing, teaming. treeing.
Again, each to their own, and people choose to PVP how they wish.

[PartayHat]

And you people yelled at me when I said this community was pessimistic smh >.>
I didnt yell and you liar.

[Bazinga!]

Go read back, from top to button, I answered, stated facts, logically proved (wheres its possible to do) go that, GO READ THAT, its waste of time to say all those things again, u first 'give up' then go personal attack then gone absurd having no logics against my posts.

Probably one new thing that has been said here by u is that devs have not change anything yet & that's why they won't change, my dear fellow they already did by adding high dodge into int set that they hardly did in past, infect same dodge as a str set.

You talking about big words of FFA mechanics and I showed you, literally proved that how you missing basic facts about FFA and using FFA as EXCUSE to justify the opness of the op-est class right now at endgame PvP.

Dude the number of useless posts you've posted is over 9000.

And I have to congratulate you for being such a genius. If you didn't notice, they change the stats of gear at every cap.

Also can someone explain the difference between giving up on a person and giving up on an action to Waug...

I'm not even gonna comment about your 'logic' because everyone knows that nothing you say makes sense.

And finally, 1 + 1 = 2. There, I stated a fact. Do I win now?

[XghostzX]

Dude the number of useless posts you've posted is over 9000.

And I have to congratulate you for being such a genius. If you didn't notice, they change the stats of gear at every cap.

Also can someone explain the difference between giving up on a person and giving up on an action to Waug...

I'm not even gonna comment about your 'logic' because everyone knows that nothing you say makes sense.

And finally, 1 + 1 = 2. There, I stated a fact. Do I win now?


41 – 40 = 61 – 60

=>16 + 25 – 2*5*4 = 36 + 25 – 2*5*6

=>4^2 + 5^2 -2*5*4 = 6^2 + 5^2 – 2*5*6

Using the identity: a^2 + b^2 - 2ab = (a - b)^2

=>(4 - 5)^2 = (6 - 5)^2

Taking square root both the sides:

=>(4 - 5) = (6 - 5) **

=>4 = 6

Dividing by 2

=>2 = 3

=>1 + 1 = 3

[humiiii]

41 – 40 = 61 – 60

=>16 + 25 – 2*5*4 = 36 + 25 – 2*5*6

=>4^2 + 5^2 -2*5*4 = 6^2 + 5^2 – 2*5*6

Using the identity: a^2 + b^2 - 2ab = (a - b)^2

=>(4 - 5)^2 = (6 - 5)^2

Taking square root both the sides:

=>(4 - 5) = (6 - 5) **

=>4 = 6

Dividing by 2

=>2 = 3

=>1 + 1 = 3

Post of the year

[Congeniality]

41 – 40 = 61 – 60

=>16 + 25 – 2*5*4 = 36 + 25 – 2*5*6

=>4^2 + 5^2 -2*5*4 = 6^2 + 5^2 – 2*5*6

Using the identity: a^2 + b^2 - 2ab = (a - b)^2

=>(4 - 5)^2 = (6 - 5)^2

Taking square root both the sides:

=>(4 - 5) = (6 - 5) **

=>4 = 6

Dividing by 2

=>2 = 3

=>1 + 1 = 3

Showing this to my calc teacher when I beg for points back. XD

[Kingzila]

Stop trying to fix the game, and fix yourselves. You're all not as good as me, because if you were you'd know that you can beat anyone with anything.

Gladiator out.

I like this, I like it a lot.

[Bazinga!]

41 – 40 = 61 – 60

=>16 + 25 – 2*5*4 = 36 + 25 – 2*5*6

=>4^2 + 5^2 -2*5*4 = 6^2 + 5^2 – 2*5*6

Using the identity: a^2 + b^2 - 2ab = (a - b)^2

=>(4 - 5)^2 = (6 - 5)^2

Taking square root both the sides:

=>(4 - 5) = (6 - 5) **

=>4 = 6

Dividing by 2

=>2 = 3

=>1 + 1 = 3

Nice, but if you were like me, you'd be particularly annoyed by the square root part.

[Cinco]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?384234-Dodgepocalypse