Endgame Dodge is truely out of hand & should be fixed!!

[Waug]

First off, let's take a look at this clips -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPrN-GKa08&feature=youtu.be

Dodge has it's purpose on PL but dodging more than half of the hits can't be justified in a skill based PvP system. When most of the skills get dodged, then it's not possible to guess that which skill is going to hit successfully and which one get dodged and do no damage at all, in this situation it's mostly luck based system rather than skill based. We have dodge debuff too, but dodge debuff it self can get dodged. Let's say someone dodge 30% of the hits, then there's scope of 70% skill and 30 % luck based (not totally as if the dodge debuff get successful hit, then there will be less dodge, but for general purpose) SO IT'S MOSTLY SKILL BASED. But now someone dodge 70% of the hits, then it get opposite and that would be called MOSTLY LUCK BASED because approx. 70% cases it's going to get dodged. So it's clear now that adding some more dodge is not like anything like adding more armor because that can be scaled with opponent's damage even if not scaled, it still can do some damage which will add up, but adding more dodge SIMPLY CAN CONVERT A SKILL BASED PvP game into one luck based [I'm calling it "Luck" in general, there are many factors included, which would only make it complicated, I'm trying to keep it simple]

Which Now first, take a look at the L71 best item [helm for reference]

157987

157988

157989

I took L71 helm as reference just because I found it easily on CS, but the pattern is same for 51, 55, 56, etc etc infect mostly.


157990

157991

157992

Now if we compare both, we can easily find that how dodge has been added on wrong places on the int & dex too, It may seems that, what's wrong to give same stat to all the sets (Int-Dex-Str) but if back then it was comparably way much balanced then, it's clear it can't be the case now because it was balanced like that. Exactly that happened along with the fact that dodge itself made the game worse, as described early in this thread. Alternatively saying, mages didn't have such dodge because mages has other huge advantages eg. high heal, High dmg, Mana Shield etc. The fact is mages don't have any disadvantage now. As a result 90% of the endgame PvP community play with mages now.

Conclusion & solution [not in depth so that it would take much time or much deep fix]

1) Total elimination or significant dodge nerf from Endgame int & dex items but less nerf from str items [it's required for str because anyone dodge close to 100 is not justified either]

2) Adding armor a bit to those items so that it can compensate dodge and prevent few hit kill.

3) AN ALTERNATIVE way to minimize the effect of dodge is to make dodge debuff UN-dodgeable, I mean dodge debuffs can't be dodged.

4) Adding soon

-------------------------------------------

P.S. -- [Queries]

Query : Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.

To show the current difficulty level of endgame PVE (The overlord returns) I did a test ALONE with my L74 alt with L66 Angel helm, armor & L71 purple ballista WITHOUT any kinda elixor and these dungeons meant for multiple players runs together along with the fact that the daily blessing already made PvE much easier.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWkLNQSvQA&feature=youtu.be

[humiiii]

Annnnd another one

[XghostzX]

Annnnd another one
You gotta admit, his persistence is kinda admirable...

[iamthesurvivor]

Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...

[Befs]

Would be fine with all levels getting less dodge :ambivalence:

[Mothwing]

Literally every other level is better than 80 imo. If you don't like it make a twink and stop complaining because the devs aren't going to change anything.

[Burningdex]

What Moth said^

You made it sound like endgame is the only level effected by dodge..

[Waug]

Come on, bring up valid points either supporting it or criticising it, these talks doesn't matter friends but I'll answer all this because I like ya all.


Annnnd another one


You gotta admit, his persistence is kinda admirable...


Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...

Ya I can spend this small time, and my fingers are as fast as my computer, even faster than Photoshop takes time to process a photo (like just cut a portion), so all this didn't take much time, if I could waste hours playing pl. Thx for the concerns buds :) But don't worry I think it's my duty to point out the major issues as I loved the game for long even though if I don't play the game.

And my friend, if u visit a game forum to say don't bother about a dead game, LoL then you urself aren't showing that you care all this about that 'Dead Game'? Or you are doing the duty to visit forums and make em aware hey this game is dead move on, kinda funny lol but that's a good job, gotta agree.


Literally every other level is better than 80 imo. If you don't like it make a twink and stop complaining because the devs aren't going to change anything.
I'm not trying to be rude buddy, but not getting other words due to limitations of my grip to English. You're none to decide if someone should complain about a valid point or not, rather definitely you can discuss about that particular point :) if ya could :p
Anyway as said earlier, let's devs decide & even though they don't it's really necessarily to show em that's how endgame is f-uped oops Dodged-mess

And as I said earlier, it's my duty to fix (I mean just show) the most active and special endgame pvp, but thx for suggesting twink anyway :)


What Moth said^

You made it sound like endgame is the only level effected by dodge..

I'm trying to fix (just show) endgame, if u like any other level, bring up the issues, if its justified I'll support that, don't worry :) I can't take the load to fix (just show) all levels FOR NOW, sorry for that, and this relate to befs post too;)

[Burningdex]

changing dodge also changes PvE, and in dungeons after SC it would probably take a whole rework of mechanics to make it playable without dodge being a factor..

[Waug]

changing dodge also changes PvE, and in dungeons after SC it would probably take a whole rework of mechanics to make it playable without dodge being a factor..

PVE is elixir dominant (mostly due to daily blessings), and it's already easiest than ever now, even w/o elix current endgame pve is comparably easy, rather before cap/maps were harder eg. Humania, Blacksmoth

[Burningdex]

PVE is elixir dominant (mostly due to daily blessings), and it's already easiest than ever now, even w/o elix current endgame pve is comparably easy, rather before cap/maps were harder eg. Humania, Blacksmoth

that may be, but there is still (i'd like to think) a large majority of the small playerbase who don't buy elixirs (and lets be honest, 1.5x and 1.25x dont really account for much). Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.

[Waug]

that may be, but there is still (i'd like to think) a large majority of the small playerbase who don't buy elixirs (and lets be honest, 1.5x and 1.25x dont really account for much). Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.

It really doesn't matter, most of the people don't even use endgame elites to level up rather they save and buy L80 elites after caping and that's a reality.

[Burningdex]

It really doesn't matter, most of the people don't even use endgame elites to level up rather they save and buy L80 elites after caping and that's a reality.

It really does matter, changing dodge for endgame items, as you stated; would change dodge on non-elite items as well. The majority of this playerbase doesn't PvP, changing dodge impacts them as well.

[tasakli]

Give this man a job. I wish I had this much free time

[Kingzila]

Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...

I wouldn't go as far to say its a dead game, (people spending 100$ for just plat is far from dead) but then again it's not what it was either. It however makes me just so happy inside to know that pl doesn't care what the whining pvp babies cry about anymore and just do what they want to do & implement what they see as helpful and so on.

The people who constantly cry about pvp are the force that ruined pl with there constant need for fix's. You are the reason pl is in the state it is in.

[Bazinga!]

I see that you've used me as an example in your video (0:00). Also I see that you've moved on from making videos of you winning to making videos of you losing.

[Burningdex]

I wouldn't go as far to say its a dead game, (people spending 100$ for just plat is far from dead) but then again it's not what it was either. It however makes me just so happy inside to know that pl doesn't care what the whining pvp babies cry about anymore and just do what they want to do & implement what they see as helpful and so on.

The people who constantly cry about pvp are the force that ruined pl with there constant need for fix's. You are the reason pl is in the state it is in.

best thing ive read in awhile, toxicity killed this game

[Waug]

It really does matter, changing dodge for endgame items, as you stated; would change dodge on non-elite items as well. The majority of this playerbase doesn't PvP, changing dodge impacts them as well.

Seriously, you called this hard -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWkLNQSvQA&feature=youtu.be

ROFL, if a single one with L66 Angel and ballista without any kinda elixor can do this, really funny assumptions there, gotta agree on that also same time I'll add this video in my main post :)


I see that you've used me as an example in your video (0:00). Also I see that you've moved on from making videos of you winning to making videos of you losing.

That's not called loosing, that's called broken PvP, that just shows how PvP is totally messed up and to show that I can make alot vids like that. Glad and thanks for helping unknowingly :) hehhehe

[Mothwing]

I'm not trying to be rude buddy, but not getting other words due to limitations of my grip to English. You're none to decide if someone should complain about a valid point or not, rather definitely you can discuss about that particular point :) if ya could :p
Anyway as said earlier, let's devs decide & even though they don't it's really necessarily to show em that's how endgame is f-uped oops Dodged-mess

And as I said earlier, it's my duty to fix (I mean just show) the most active and special endgame pvp, but thx for suggesting twink anyway :)



I'm trying to fix (just show) endgame, if u like any other level, bring up the issues, if its justified I'll support that, don't worry :) I can't take the load to fix (just show) all levels FOR NOW, sorry for that, and this relate to befs post too;)


What the hell are you talking about, rofl. I've never once made a post complaining about balance issues. I've made comments on OTHER posts because most people make really naive suggestions like you do every other day.

You have this weird notion that for some reason you are special in the minds of the devs and they will listen to every post you make. That's not going to happen, please be realistic.

Youre re not going to fix end game. They've updated it twice since 80 was released only to make it worse. Why would you ever think they're going to add balancing changes to a game that's been dead for 3 years. It takes too much effort for them.

Removing dodge has been suggested 2719472927373930 times on this forum. This isn't anything new. Please stop.

[Waug]

What the hell are you talking about, rofl. I've never once made a post complaining about balance issues. I've made comments on OTHER posts because most people make really naive suggestions like you do every other day.

You have this weird notion that for some reason you are special in the minds of the devs and they will listen to every post you make. That's not going to happen, please be realistic.

Youre re not going to fix end game. They've updated it twice since 80 was released only to make it worse. Why would you ever think they're going to add balancing changes to a game that's been dead for 3 years. It takes too much effort for them.

Removing dodge has been suggested 2719472927373930 times on this forum. This isn't anything new. Please stop.

Lol, read it again, I meant you shouldn't ask people to stop complaining on forum for valid reasons, but you can criticize/discuss THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, that's all I meant.

I'm in no position to fix neither I represent any dev lol, all I meant - show em , that's what I put in those brackets.

[Bazinga!]

Lol, read it again, I meant you shouldn't ask people to stop complaining on forum for valid reasons, but you can criticize/discuss THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, that's all I meant.

I'm in no position to fix neither I represent any dev lol, all I meant - show em , that's what I put in those brackets.

We've shown the devs enough and nothing has been done to *sort* the problem out. That's why I made my thread. I wanted people to come up with ways to make the situation better ourselves. I came up with having FFAs. Instead of solving the problem, we got a 5 page discussion about the problem itself, which everybody already knows.

[Suentous PO]

can anyone explain what a non endgame rhino in non endgame gear has to do with endgame dodge?

[Ignitedmage]

well i would just say that there was a golden motto made by the community when STS left updating pl.
"Stop crying and complaining, they don't care"
I know the devs have made so many updates to PL lately but that doesn't mean by any means that they are going to do PVP balancing because if you're going to balance, the mages might get underpowered if they lose their dodge, then they have to increase armor, then thy might be over powered and so on. It will take them a lot time and time is money and they already mentioned they are not investing any time in this game because of low business, so i guess you should follow the golden motto and calm down.

[Waug]

We've shown the devs enough and nothing has been done to *sort* the problem out. That's why I made my thread. I wanted people to come up with ways to make the situation better ourselves. I came up with having FFAs. Instead of solving the problem, we got a 5 page discussion about the problem itself, which everybody already knows.

Stay on topic anything else doesn't matter and will be ignored.


can anyone explain what a non endgame rhino in non endgame gear has to do with endgame dodge?

It was to show that how endgame pve is easy, as some may complain one already did that nerfing dodge will make pve hard ;)


well i would just say that there was a golden motto made by the community when STS left updating pl.
"Stop crying and complaining, they don't care"
I know the devs have made so many updates to PL lately but that doesn't mean by any means that they are going to do PVP balancing because if you're going to balance, the mages might get underpowered if they lose their dodge, then they have to increase armor, then thy might be over powered and so on. It will take them a lot time and time is money and they already mentioned they are not investing any time in this game because of low business, so i guess you should follow the golden motto and calm down.

Same applies to this "stay on topic" but I'll comment this time and afterwards "anything else" will be ignored.

First off, you need to learn that bringing issues here is not crying, anything like that again will be ignored as poor mentality.

I think I've followed forums way more than you did, so basically I've more idea about that matter keep it to urself.

Saying again, stay on topic , if you have something to say about the topic then do, anything else really doesn't matter.

[SillyJuan]

Annnnd another one

If you have nothing good to say, go hate your life somewhere else. Thank you

[SillyJuan]

All you haters making irrelevant comments about him posting this video simply proves that y'all have nothing better else to do then to bash on people for presenting information that could potentially be helpful for the game. Waug I applaud you for taking action and showing the truth, it shows how passionate you still are for this game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Priorema]

I know my english is bad, but I want to be a part of this mess :D
If sts will change a dodge one day (lets hope so), all those mages will simply go as pally again. Let the mages shine again, all the users who rely on dodge (specially bears) are on 71 now and basically its full of bears, you can see only 2-4 birds and a few mages. But the point is, taking dodge off wont affect pve (lol how can it affect), and mages will still find the way to be good, what isvl truly needed for this game is either nerf bears' dodge buffs (because they always rely on dodge for example 40-51-56-66-71 pvp(let the bear users come over me)) or take off some dodge from every every endgane gear and some from dodge from str at lower levels ;)

[Suentous PO]

It was to show that how endgame pve is easy, as some may complain one already did that nerfing dodge will make pve hard

Ah I see, but the point Burning is making is that to nerf dodge on non end game gear might not be fair to new players.

@ Juan - don't be a white knight- Waug obviously enjoys debate & needs no defender. He'll 3v himself if not chalenged enough. XP

[Cinco]

Yeah - but nerfing dodge across the board would make advancement more attractive. I think that's good.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?384234-Dodgepocalypse

[Priorema]

Yeah - but nerfing dodge across the board would make advancement more attractive. I think that's good.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?384234-Dodgepocalypse

Yeah, nerf that sneaky dodge

[Cinco]

When you use the term "new" are you talking about 'Twinks' or are you talking about 'Players Who Advance?'

[Suentous PO]

When you use the term "new" are you talking about 'Twinks' or are you talking about 'Players Who Advance?'

i ment new advancing players, not twinks, but honestly it wouldnt be that big a deal on new ppl imho.

[ryanbemani1]

I must say well done bro for creating this thread. You created many threads on it and went through so much criticism and opposition but it payed off. You made cinco do something special for pvp if it wasn't for you. I must say reading through some replies to this thread seeing things like, "PL is dead and devs won't do this class balance and these last couple updates were only for small business or whatever*cant remember lol* or "Devs are never going to even bother or care to fix this," well I mean I guess cinco proved you wrong and he is planning something now. Anyways happy 2017 everyone and let's all hopefully enjoy this nice tweak pvp update if hopefully things go right and not out of hand.

Btw those quotes are not exactly what people said but instead similar things to what I have heard in the past.

[Zillionaire]

First of all I would like to thank you for your thread.
I've never wanted to endgame pvp after the Overlord update. I tried many times but there were no positive results and I am talking as an archer too. At the base our strong point ( Archers ) is the HIT %, but after the release of these new sets it became just insane and impossible to master. 2pc ring does increase the percentage of the dodge, but with 8% base for each piece I think it is too much especially for INT and STR.
I have done pvp in the past and for years and I personally think that the most balanced and successful level was the 76. Everything was clear and fair. Each player no matter what character it was had a weapon in his hands, and if he knew how to use it he could really succeed against any enemy, which is not the case now.
Cheers

[Congeniality]

First of all I would like to thank you for your thread.
I've never wanted to endgame pvp after the Overlord update. I tried many times but there were no positive results and I am talking as an archer too. At the base our strong point ( Archers ) is the HIT %, but after the release of these new sets it became just insane and impossible to master. 2pc ring does increase the percentage of the dodge, but with 8% base for each piece I think it is too much especially for INT and STR.
I have done pvp in the past and for years and I personally think that the most balanced and successful level was the 76. Everything was clear and fair. Each player no matter what character it was had a weapon in his hands, and if he knew how to use it he could really succeed against any enemy, which is not the case now.
Cheers

You would have loved 66

[humiiii]

If you have nothing good to say, go hate your life somewhere else. Thank you

my post was constructive. It means oh another thread about someone complaining/crying. Well its always Waug. He Might want to try to get a positivie kd even tho i guess its too late. But my life is good, thanks :)

[SillyJuan]

my post was constructive. It means oh another thread about someone complaining/crying. Well its always Waug. He Might want to try to get a positivie kd even tho i guess its too late. But my life is good, thanks :)

I still give no bothers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Waug]

my post was constructive.
Yes, yes, all these posts really seems to be 'constructive'


It means oh another thread about someone complaining/crying. Well its always Waug. He Might want to try to get a positivie kd even tho i guess its too late. But my life is good, thanks :)




You first. And thanks for being so understanding :-P
Me first? Just read all the changes, dont even have to explain lol. And i also said why im mad. Dont wanna be rude but did you even read?A hint here, humiii wanted cinco to read his mind probably w/o giving any kinda feedback!!





Consider leveling-up.Made my day. Thanks. Are you also a comedian?




Why is it that when someone team and/or rushes me, they expect us to still be cool, as they do it over and over again. All the time I am being called a teamer, and yea I do team, I team people who team or rush me. I also start getting rushed by people who call me a teamer and then they are all so shocked when I rush or team them! Can someone please help me understand what is going through their mind, ty.
you're food

I noticed, Cinco ain't experienced at community managing (CM) but brilliant PL dev, if it would be any pro CM or JustG, your rage posts would get deleted several times, if not then I thing they should change the forums rules, I see, you've any idea about that otherwise you wouldn't keep breaking that and also call that 'constructive' EL oh EL.

I see some ppl keep tracking my KD, it make me feel good :) and I sometime forget thats some statistics are there lol, no offense, some ppl are too much kd sensitive and for em, if their Over Powered twink level to farm kd by killing under powered classes even seems to get any kinda threat they just loose mind and after that what they do? read above quotes, hehe.

Your life is good, good to know, hopefully it get even better, cheers :)

[Buchmeister]

Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...

You know why it's dying? Because the game is broken. People like him are trying to fix it. Honestly, we need more people who care vs the people who are just like "whatever the game is dead anyways, it doesn't matter".