WhoIsThis
01-14-2017, 03:19 AM
It has been a long time since I've posted anything, but I have been asked to do so by someone off the forums.
Dodge - the problem
Why has dodge raised a lot of unhappiness, like here?
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?384234-Dodgepocalypse
Answer: It forces RNG and in the case
For example, let's say that we want a combo like Cruel Blast, or for that matter any combo that requires 2 moves.
Our target has 80% dodge
That means we have a 1 in 25 chance of executing our combo.
80% of the time they will dodge the first time and 80% of the time they will dodge the second.
That means that 4% of combos hit. 32% of the time, 1 of 2 hits lands, and 64% of the time, no hits land.
Our target has 60% dodge
That means we have a 16% chance of executing our combo.
60% of the time they will dodge the first round and again 60% of the time they will dodge the second round.
That means that 16% of combos hit. 48% of the time one of two hits lands and 36% of the time, the target is able to dodge both hits.
What if we were to go insane, like 90% dodge
Then the target is nearly invincible.
It would mean that 1% of the time, the combos hit, 18% of the time, only 1 shot lands, and 81% of the time they dodge both hits.
So why is this a problem?
To kill a target in PvP, you need very high burst damage to be able to overwhelm the target.
Amount of damage to kill = HP - Amount Healed within time
The longer the fight, the more the target has to heal, but the higher their dodge, the higher the percentage. Dodge scales geometrically rather than linearly. Actually, a player often needs 3+ hits, especially for Str targets to land successively in a short period of time. Burst in this case is more valuable than sustained - which is one of the reasons why a DOT based character would do very poorly in PL PvP - it's just too fast paced unless the DOT was very powerful.
This makes it very dependent on getting a favorable Random Number Generator (RNG) combination.
The other problem is that as a target levels, each new level of buff or gear adds a bit more dodge. That brings us closer to 100% and as we approach 100%, the target becomes invincible. It also makes Str vs Str battles very long.
Is there a potential solution?
A dodge cap.
Say, the maximum dodge is 60% after any dodge would go to armor.
Let's say:
Dodge Cap = 60%
Armor Modifier = 2 for each percentage
We have a character with 80% dodge and 200 armor.
So they would have actually:
60% dodge
Modified Armor = 200 (base armor) + 200 (base armor) * (80%, which is the character's dodge - 60% dodge cap) x 2 = 240 armor.
This character has 60% dodge and 240 armor now instead of 80% dodge and 200 armor.
Note: I'm not sure what the correct dodge cap and modifier are, but I think that 60% is a good starting point and 2% for the armor cap.
Also for crit, make it useful past 100%
I'd also recommend doing the same for crit over 100%, only crit will go straight to damage. Use the same damage modifier as the armor modifier to cancel each other out (offense vs defense) so that neither Str, Int, or Dex have an advantage.
So let's say that we have a character with 120% crit and 200 damage
Assume the same armor modifier of 2 per percentage
Damage would be = 200 for base damage + 200 x (120% crit - 100% crit since we cannot have crit over 100%) = 240
This adds damage to crit over 100% and negates the armor buff of the target, but the target still has 60% dodge buff. This would only ever be valuable however after 100% crit.
Other notes
This is a very simple proposal, but it may be a "quick win" if done correctly (ex: the right percentages used). It may need tweaking by class as well (ex: the dodge cap might need to be different per class). It will require a lot of feedback, but could balance end game. In that regard, it could be the simple mechanic that fixes dodge, but getting the percentages right will likely take several revisions. Edit: Another option (and perhaps better with the new classes) is to tweak based on int, dex, and str. Having more than say, 55% in the category will be your dominant trait.
Keep in mind the impact of buffs when these caps are on and off.
I'm not sure what the dodge cap should be, as I said, but 60% is a good starting point I'd say. I think that gives a good balance between dodge and damage. Too much dodge favors strength based builds (especially bears), while too little makes dodge ineffective. Tweaking will be needed as discussed. 60% is a starting point, but an I'd say an educated guess.
This was a part of a far more complicated proposal.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?122775-Game-mechanics-and-equipment-a-thread-to-reform-PL-and-re-establish-class-balance
The beauty of it is that lower tiers will be less affected since they don't have as much dodge and certainly not anywhere near endgame. That is not however to say they will be unaffected; it's impossible to know for each tier unless implemented.
There are other options. One is to make debuffs a lot more powerful (forcing strategy when using them and perhaps making them a game changer). I'd recommend making their effects an "always hit". However, without a dodge change, unless dodge debuffs are extremely powerful, then there's little point.
Dodge - the problem
Why has dodge raised a lot of unhappiness, like here?
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?384234-Dodgepocalypse
Answer: It forces RNG and in the case
For example, let's say that we want a combo like Cruel Blast, or for that matter any combo that requires 2 moves.
Our target has 80% dodge
That means we have a 1 in 25 chance of executing our combo.
80% of the time they will dodge the first time and 80% of the time they will dodge the second.
That means that 4% of combos hit. 32% of the time, 1 of 2 hits lands, and 64% of the time, no hits land.
Our target has 60% dodge
That means we have a 16% chance of executing our combo.
60% of the time they will dodge the first round and again 60% of the time they will dodge the second round.
That means that 16% of combos hit. 48% of the time one of two hits lands and 36% of the time, the target is able to dodge both hits.
What if we were to go insane, like 90% dodge
Then the target is nearly invincible.
It would mean that 1% of the time, the combos hit, 18% of the time, only 1 shot lands, and 81% of the time they dodge both hits.
So why is this a problem?
To kill a target in PvP, you need very high burst damage to be able to overwhelm the target.
Amount of damage to kill = HP - Amount Healed within time
The longer the fight, the more the target has to heal, but the higher their dodge, the higher the percentage. Dodge scales geometrically rather than linearly. Actually, a player often needs 3+ hits, especially for Str targets to land successively in a short period of time. Burst in this case is more valuable than sustained - which is one of the reasons why a DOT based character would do very poorly in PL PvP - it's just too fast paced unless the DOT was very powerful.
This makes it very dependent on getting a favorable Random Number Generator (RNG) combination.
The other problem is that as a target levels, each new level of buff or gear adds a bit more dodge. That brings us closer to 100% and as we approach 100%, the target becomes invincible. It also makes Str vs Str battles very long.
Is there a potential solution?
A dodge cap.
Say, the maximum dodge is 60% after any dodge would go to armor.
Let's say:
Dodge Cap = 60%
Armor Modifier = 2 for each percentage
We have a character with 80% dodge and 200 armor.
So they would have actually:
60% dodge
Modified Armor = 200 (base armor) + 200 (base armor) * (80%, which is the character's dodge - 60% dodge cap) x 2 = 240 armor.
This character has 60% dodge and 240 armor now instead of 80% dodge and 200 armor.
Note: I'm not sure what the correct dodge cap and modifier are, but I think that 60% is a good starting point and 2% for the armor cap.
Also for crit, make it useful past 100%
I'd also recommend doing the same for crit over 100%, only crit will go straight to damage. Use the same damage modifier as the armor modifier to cancel each other out (offense vs defense) so that neither Str, Int, or Dex have an advantage.
So let's say that we have a character with 120% crit and 200 damage
Assume the same armor modifier of 2 per percentage
Damage would be = 200 for base damage + 200 x (120% crit - 100% crit since we cannot have crit over 100%) = 240
This adds damage to crit over 100% and negates the armor buff of the target, but the target still has 60% dodge buff. This would only ever be valuable however after 100% crit.
Other notes
This is a very simple proposal, but it may be a "quick win" if done correctly (ex: the right percentages used). It may need tweaking by class as well (ex: the dodge cap might need to be different per class). It will require a lot of feedback, but could balance end game. In that regard, it could be the simple mechanic that fixes dodge, but getting the percentages right will likely take several revisions. Edit: Another option (and perhaps better with the new classes) is to tweak based on int, dex, and str. Having more than say, 55% in the category will be your dominant trait.
Keep in mind the impact of buffs when these caps are on and off.
I'm not sure what the dodge cap should be, as I said, but 60% is a good starting point I'd say. I think that gives a good balance between dodge and damage. Too much dodge favors strength based builds (especially bears), while too little makes dodge ineffective. Tweaking will be needed as discussed. 60% is a starting point, but an I'd say an educated guess.
This was a part of a far more complicated proposal.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?122775-Game-mechanics-and-equipment-a-thread-to-reform-PL-and-re-establish-class-balance
The beauty of it is that lower tiers will be less affected since they don't have as much dodge and certainly not anywhere near endgame. That is not however to say they will be unaffected; it's impossible to know for each tier unless implemented.
There are other options. One is to make debuffs a lot more powerful (forcing strategy when using them and perhaps making them a game changer). I'd recommend making their effects an "always hit". However, without a dodge change, unless dodge debuffs are extremely powerful, then there's little point.