Newt's D.P.S (Damage Plus Support) Engi Build

[LelouchX]

Have you been trying to figure out whether you want to be a support of damage engi? Well you don't have to chose! This hybrid build will provide you with the best of both worlds, so you can keep your group alive while you do more than heal and sit on the sidelines. In order for this build to be most effect, I suggest using a weapon that makes your damage as high as possible, as this will determine the effectiveness of your spells (damage, and healing). Basically, higher damage = higher skill base damage.

Attribute Points:

Here are a couple screenies that show you how different attributes affect engi stats. Note, attribute points affect different classes differently, this only pertains to engis:
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/EngiInt.jpghttp://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/EngiStr.jpghttp://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/EngiDex.jpg
For me, i think the best balance is about 75-80% Int, 20-25% Str. Dex isn't worth it for an engi. What you can do is go to your avitar page, hit update stats, and play around to find your own perfect balance. As long as you don't hit submit, you won't be asked to pay plat for a respec.

Shield Recommedations:

Now on to shields. I think there are very few people who would recommend using the engi gloves for anything other than chillin' in Blackstar. There are a few shields that are geared toward boosting intelligence, while others are not. Shields become available at level 26 (not including the winter festival stuff). So, here is a little shield info:
Note: all shield info currently listed is for rare shields only, no epic/legendary shields are aren included ATM.
Priority Engi Shileds -- __ -- Second Choice Engi Shilds -- __ -- "Danger, Danger Will Robinson" Engi Shields
Shields will have prefixes, which determine what attributes are boosted by them. I'm not going to list all the stats of every shield because every level shield from 26 up contains 1 of each of the following three prefixes (excluding Winter Festival shields). The level of the shield determines how much each stat is boosted.
- Limited - Int > Str, no Dex boost
- Special - Dex > Int, no Str boost
- Modified - Str > Dex, no Int boost
Level 26-30 Shields - Higher stat boosted 9, lower stat boosted 5
Level 31-35 Shileds - Higher stat boosted 11, lower stat boosted 7
Level 36-40 Shields - Haven't seen any yet......
The winter festival shields work in a similar way, with different prefixes, however only one stat is boosted. Instead of boosting a second stat, these shields offer different attribute buffs. The level 10 & 20 shields are a jackpot for PvP, so for them, I'll code them for PvP use:
- Lv 10 Glacial - 2 Str, 1% dodge, 10 health, 24 armor
- Lv 10 Frosty - 3 Int, 10 health, 15 mana, 24 armor
- Lv 10 Arctic - 2 Dex, 1% crit, 24 armor
A stat boost of 2 or 3 won't really do much for you, so I would use the other stat boosts to chose for your twinks here. Between frosty and arctic, you will need to decide what is more importan, the health or the crit. In my opinion though, the dodge is the best way to go.

- Lv 20 Glacial - 4 Str, 1Dex, 2% dodge, 20 health, 48 armor
- Lv 20 Arctic - 4 Dex, 1% hit, 1% crit, 20 health, 48 armor
- Lv 20 Frosty - 4 Int, 1% hit, 20 health, 35 mana, 48 armor
Here, you get the health bonus no matter what, and once again, 4 stat boost won't do too much, even though it is better than 2. Here I think the toss up is between glacial and arctic. Personally, i would prefer the 2% dodge, but either way you go should do more for you than the frosty will.

I'm not going to comment on the level 30 & 40 shields for PvP for a couple reason. First, there are other shields available with much higher defense (~40-60 armor = 1 point reduction in damage) and they have different stat boosts compared to the non WF shields. With the level 35 legendary gun/shield combo, you will get different set bonuses as well. There are so many different combinations of things you can do at these levels and I don't comfortable advising anyone on what is the best choice. At level 10 & 20, only WF shields are available, so the comparison can be made easily.
- Lv 30 Arctic - 7 Dex, 1% hit, 2% crit, 20 health, 72 armor
- Lv 30 Frosty - 9 Int, 1% hit, 25 health, 45 mana, 72 armor
- Lv 30 Glacial - don't have info on ATM, will edit when available.

- Lv 40 Arctic - 10 Dex, 2% hit, 2% crit, 30 health, 96 armor
- Lv 40 Frosty - 13 Int, 1% hit, 1% crit, 60 mana, 96 armor
- Lv 40 Glacial - 11 Str, 2% hit, 1% crit, 55 health, 96 armor

Skill Points & Slot Arrangement:

Slot 1
-Revive - 3
-Sonic Boom - 6
-Trnsference - 6
-Empathy - 6

Slot 2
-Wither - 6
-Leech - 6
-Pain - 1
-Decy - 6

How to Level:

Well, lets start out with when you will attain each skill

Wither - 2
Leech - 3
Empathy - 4
Revive - 6
Force Shield - 8
Suppression - 10
Protection - 12
Transference - 16
Pain - 20
Sonic Boom - 24
Decay - 28

I recommend turning auto-level off so that you don't have a point put towards the skill when you obtain it:

2 - save
3 - leech (1)
4 - empathy (1) (2)
5 - empathy (3)
6 - revive (1)
7 - wither (1)
8 - leech (2)
9 - wither (2)
10 - empathy (4)
11 - save
12 - save
13 - save
14 - save
15 - save
16 - transference (max out)
17 - empathy (5)
18 - leech (3)
19 - empathy (6)
20 - pain (1)
21 - wither (3)
22 - save
23 - save
24 - sonic boom (1)
25 - save
26 - save
27 - save
28 - decay (max out)
29 - leech (4)
30 - leech (5)
31 - wither (4)
32 - sonic boom (2)
33 - leech (6)
34 - wither (5)
35 - wither (6)
36 - sonic boom (3)
37 - sonic boom (4)
38 - sonic boom (5)
39 - sonic boom (6)
40 - revive (2)
41 - revive (3)

Feel free to play around with this, but there are some things you should always keep constant:
- transference is learned at level 16 and should be maxed out immediately
- decay is learned at level 28 and should be maxed out immediately
- leech should always get leveled higher than wither because it will heal you as well as damage the enemy
- DoTs in general are only effective if the enemy is alive (duh) so one that hit for more/tick (leech & decay) but last a shorter duration are better for weaker mobs, while ones that last longer and hit for less/tick (wither) are better for stronger mobs, mini-bosses, and bosses.

The Whys & Why Nots:

Lets start out with the why nots
-Force Shield - you will be drawing some aggro with this build, and it wont last long enough to be productive as far as mana regen is concerned. Also, revive will give you some mana regen.
-Protection - At max level, it will only provide your party with a 1-2 decrease in damage, so it's not the best use of skill points IMO.
-Suppression - I just recommend staying away from this for my build. I've seen a few engis use this skill effectively, but really only when I tank on my engi and there is no com around. I think the reason for this is that when I rush a mob, I use my AOE skills at the beginning, and if suppression is used after this and there is no com using one of the many com AOE skills, then the suppression usually last on most of the mob (in SY4/5). It's a nice way to reduce the damage I take, but I still wont add it to my build. Thanks for the few that have helped with this tho!

The Whys
-For healing, empathy (6) and transference (6) speak for themselves
-Revive (3) - really only needs one skill point until you level high enough to have extra. It will provide you and your party with mana regen, but is not stackable (thanks for unknowingly proving this in the GH Weenis). Leveling this higher increases the range by 1 meter/level, but it hasn't been necessary for me. Like I said, its helpful when you have the extra skill points, but not needed until then.
-Decay (6) - DoT + armor debuff. Nuff said.
-Pain (1) - Really only needs 1 skill point. It is most effective for it's stun and AOE effect, as it IS NOT a DOT. The AOE damage is 15-25 at every skill level, so save your points for other skills.
-Wither (6) and Leech (6) - These DoTs will do some real damage on enemies that don't die withing a few seconds (bosses, mini-bosses, and mobs from the higher stages in sloucho). Leech will also give you an extra healing boost, which is nice since you will be drawing aggro with this build.
-Sonic Boom (6) - Annoyingly long cool down, but a great aggro magnet. Make sure you have transference ready after using this though to keep your health up (reference mob strategies below).

How to Use Effectively:

-Mobs
You'll have to balance your support and damage, but it will become second nature after a little while. Empathy at the beginning is good for small/trash mobs, as it will last till they die and you will be able to use it again if need be before moving to the next mob. The tricky thing is getting your whole group in on it, which is less of a problem if there is another engi in the group. Try your best. Tanks shouldn't need the heal as you approach the mob, but make sure you heal him up before he rushes off to the next mob. A good tank will rush ahead when the mob is ALMOST dead to build up aggro on the next mob, so make sure you heal him up before he leaves. Ops may take the aggro while you approach the mob, so make sure they are included in the initial empathy. You don't necessarily need to use transference in the beginning of the mob. On the harder mobs, if you use it in the beginning, you can probably use it at the end again most of the times. On the small/trash mobs, it is best saved for the middle to give an extra healing boost to anyone who may need. Always use pain in the beginning to maximize the number of enemies you hit wit the AOE effect. Also, you will ONLY get the AOE if the enemy is alive at the end of the 3 seconds, so don't use your other damage skills right away. I also wouldn't use all your DOTs at once. Use decay and then leech to maximize the amount leech will damage/heal. When the targeted enemy dies, use wither on the next. In a good group, you can generally spam revive to keep the mana regen up on your party, but you shouldn't need much for yourself. With pure intelligence, your mana regen should be at 3. If there is more than one engi, remember that the mana regen does not stack, so don't waste the revive if another engi has used it. With sonic boom, you should be very careful about drawing aggro. If (maybe i should say when) i rush mobs in SY5 and use sonic boom, instead of waiting for a little backup first, mobs completely focus on me and after 1-2 his from them, i am dead. So, i have found it effective to wait for com to have aggro to use sonic boom. You will still draw attacks from some enemies, so be prepared to use transference almost immediately and bam, your at max health again. Don't wait to have 1/4 health to use trans though, you may not get the heal in time. If you are running without a com, i recommend staying a little closer to group. I would still stay in front to keep attacks off ops a bit, but if you rush too far ahead, you won't have much help wearing down the mob.
Alternative Mob Strategy for the hardcore
I've posted this as a response in another thread, but after playing a bit more with this build, thought it would fit here as well:
I've found that after running my build for some time now, it is also very effective at drawing aggro away from the squishies. But to do this requires muilti-targeting when in a mob. What I mean by this is not just hitting you auto attack and waiting till the enemy dies to attack another. Some may not be bothered with this, but, i often target one enemy, use a dot, target another, use dot, target another, use dot, while using trans AOE to add to my aggro. I've said it a million time that I am a passionate engi, so while my style isn't for the lazy (for lack of a better word), it holds aggro and takes full advantage of the DoT by not instantly killing the enemy after it is cast. I will say it is hard to focus on multi targeting when you start using boom, since you need to be prepared to use stims if necessary.

-Mini-Bosses with Mobs
Heal as needed as described above. You may want to spam transference for mini-bosses since they are often accompanied by a mob. On mini-bosses, you can start off with decay to increase the damage done by your party's skills and attacks. Use slot 2 from bottom up. Lather, rinse, repeat. Depending on how you group is playing, you may or may not be able to just focus on the min-boss. If your whole group focuses on the mini-boss, I suggest using slot 2 from bottom up and then using your regular attack on the mob. If your group is taking out the mob, you can focus on the mini-boss. This will be harder four you to judge when you are in PUGs.
(Edit 10/27/11): hmmm, if i find any in the next expansion i guess i can update this section
-Bosses
Heal as needed as described above. Don't use your revive for mana regen here, especially if you are the only engi. You'll want to make sure it isn't on cool down if someone dies, and you'll want your tanks and heavy hitting ops alive as soon as possible if they do happen to die. Use slot 2 from bottom up to begin with. The cool downs vary on all these skills, so I recommend spamming your pain (8 second cool down). After your first round of slot 2, it may be beneficial to hold off on leach (15 second cool down) until decay (20 second cool down) is ready. However, it is easiest to just spam slot 2 as they become available. Switching between slots to heal may become a little tedious, but nobody said being a good engi was easy.

So that's how I engi. Not to say that any other builds I have seen posted are bad, but they just don't work for me. I loved dual speccing in PL because it was a way to make the game more interesting, challenging, and overall, more fun. Dual speccing doesn't really work the same way in SL, so by not choosing between support and damage, this is my version of an engi "dual spec." Feel free to post any suggestions. I welcome any constructive criticism and feedback. And feel free to send me a tell if you find me in game, I'd be happy to help any way I can.

I want to thank Caveman and Firoth for helping me in sloucho with my TANKIN ENGI test, but these new screenshots work a lot better to back up my statements that this build is perfect for tanking. So, first let me say thanks to everyone that actually stayed in this group with me for over an hour without a commando on SY5 farming! You guys all rocked and I was pleasantly surprised at how smoothly we took care of the boss.

So i have stated above about my strategy for mobs. I wasn't using my "Alternative Mob Strategy for the Hardcore" here, just the normal mob strategy using sonic boom followed by transference whenever the cool down was over. I did have to use a bunch of sims, probably close to 15 or so a run, and trying to multi target my DOTs was just too hard. I can honestly say that you do not want to use sonic boom as you rush a mob without following it immediately with transference because you will die. So, as any good tank should, you are going to want to leave the group behind when the last enemy from a mob is almost dead so you can reach the next mob first and get aggro. It was nice having another engi for healing also, because when i'm trying to tank, it is hard to keep empathy on everyone when i am trying to be the first one in a big mob. I did my best to stay away from the rest of the group so you could tell if i was being targeted or not. While i couldn't keep every enemy on me, most stayed targeting me. So here are the screenshots:

2 out of 3 on me here
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/5ef5992e.jpg

So i shouldn't have tried to take a pic here. On apple devices, the screen flashes and you can't really tap the screen to use skiils or pots for a second or two after, so right after this pic, i died. By the time i used a plat to rez myself, 2 others in the group went down. Sorry!!
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/97aafc15.jpg

Think they are all on me here
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/15266563.jpg

This is the same mob from screenshots 2 and 3. I think they are all still on me here too. maybe one isn't, little hard to tell.
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/db311694.jpg

Little mob before the last mob before the boss, focusing on me.
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/8e2da27f.jpg

Looks like i only have half the mob on me here :'-(
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/f576c4db.jpg

So that guy stayed on me the whole time at least
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/eyeofnewt7/b028556c.jpg

So if you aren't convinced, ask the people that stayed running with me for an hour. They were all great! Thanks again for staying with me guys. Also, i asked a couple of the ops from my guild afterwards how many stims they used, one said about 5 a run and the other one i think was about 5-10 a run (said he used 70 the whole time we were running, i was TANKIN ENGI for about half that time, so i'm doing some loose estimation here).
(Edit 11/3/11): I was just informed by deadbeat that he used 70 mana stims total, and only 2 health stims total!!

Hope you like build!

[Necrobane]

Love it, mine is very similar - all for the same reasons so you must be doing something right :P Would you recommend a rifle for extra damage? Also does pure damage affect dots?

[LelouchX]

Love it, mine is very similar - all for the same reasons so you must be doing something right :P Would you recommend a rifle for extra damage? Also does pure damage affect dots?

Wow that was quick to get a response! Thanks for the compliment, i love the engi class with a passion so i have tried many many different skill specs.

If you look at the screenshots, you'll see that the incinerator and shield does indeed lower the your damage, so the claws are better than the pistol. I haven't done much testing with the rifles, but make sure it has a high intelligence boost, as this will have the greatest impact (stat-wise) on your damage. Check Physologic's General Attribute Guide (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?30467-Star-Legends-General-Attributes-(STR-DEX-INT)-Guide) for details on this. What i did was just make a loadout for the claws and another for the pistol/shield, so do that to see which will actually give you higher damage. I'm not 100% sure about damage affecting DOTs, but since it affects the damage/healing of other skills, i would assume it affects the DOTs as well.

Since your spec is similar, i'm glad i beat you to posting it!

[GigaBits]

Nice looking build, 616 ftw(trans,rev,emp). Personally, I can't justify having wither and leech, but for dps and general mob management I see the merits.

As for damage, rifles will give you the most skill damage and this does include each tick of a dot. Gloves give the better dps, however. IMO, running with a shield is best if you aren't using protection. The difference between death and life is only 1hp, after all. =)

EDIT: should have said I can't justify having both wither and leech. My apologies for any miscommunication =)

[LelouchX]

Nice looking build, 616 ftw(trans,rev,emp). Personally, I can't justify having wither and leech, but for dps and general mob management I see the merits.

As for damage, rifles will give you the most skill damage and this does include each tick of a dot. Gloves give the better dps, however. IMO, running with a shield is best if you aren't using protection. The difference between death and life is only 1hp, after all. =)

What do you suggest instead of wither and leech? I'm open to suggestions, but please give some reasoning for why you don't like it as opposed to saying that you can't justify it. I have found this very effective.

Also, remember this is a hybrid build, so using 6 skill point to prevent 1 point of health damage doesn't seem worth it. Also, with the extra damage from the DOTs, not to mention that leech will heal you more than protection will give you armor, your mobs will die much faster, therefore dealing less damage to you.

[Gunfu]

I've seen Newt and this build in action on hundreds of runs, and it does precisely what he says it does. The groups' HP/Mana stays up, AOE/DOT wears mobs down
usually before the skills cycle. (Mob dependent & group size & variations) This is a very efficient and effective build period.

[GigaBits]

What do you suggest instead of wither and leech? I'm open to suggestions, but please give some reasoning for why you don't like it as opposed to saying that you can't justify it. I have found this very effective.

Also, remember this is a hybrid build, so using 6 skill point to prevent 1 point of health damage doesn't seem worth it. Also, with the extra damage from the DOTs, not to mention that leech will heal you more than protection will give you armor, your mobs will die much faster, therefore dealing less damage to you.

Sorry, I didn't have time to post an in depth revue, just commenting on the build in general. I use wither OR leech not both(should have specified that, realise now that it sounded like I didn't justify using either of them which just isn't true), currently I max wither because I haven't ever needed the extra heal tick from leech, on the flip side leech deals less damage, due to it's shorter duration but wither rarely lasts it's full duration on trash mobs. For me, it came down to the cooldown times. Wither can be cast more often making it the more effective of the two, imo. Before you get decay, for leveling and for those who don't want to respec after leveling, leech is a respectable choice for damage output, but decay+wither both at 6, have been working for me without needing leech. So, on both counts of leech's usefulness I have found no need for it in my line-up
I agree with your statement about protection, but the comment was about using a shield versus a rifle. The shield gives about the same damage reduction as protection. With the aggro you will pull while using a rifle for higher skill damage, and the extra mana cost of spamming said skills, I highly recommend protection. I always say the difference between life and death is 1hp. As for those leftover points, pain was the right choice for me. Some time ago, I agreed with the consensus that the damage gain wasn't worth more than 1 point in pain. Over the last 2 weeks I have been running more points in pain and, when used strategically against minibosses, high hp/armor trash mobs and bosses have found it to be highly effective versus another dot.

6-0-6-1
0-0-0-6
4-0-6-/ it's kind of a healtank/dps hybrid, though I dislike calling it that. Also, note, I haven't finished the grind to 31, if/when I do I may respec back to one point in pain and 4 in protection to stack with the shields armor for spike damage mitigation. If you haven't tested or ever used protection, I highly suggest looking into it. No matter what people may say, I have seen the difference, especially running in guns blazing next to a tank dropping aoe, and having 5 or 6 mana regen has allowed me to collect a sizeable pool of pots for my alt army.

It's all personal preference in the end, if your build is fun for you I'm certainly not gonna knock it down.

[LelouchX]

Thanks for explanation, I better understand where you are coming from now. I agree that any extra armor is helpful, but I won't put any of my skill points toward it. Like I said, I haven't tested out the rifle yet, just the pistol, so I'll have to look into that. I still think wither/leech combo works great for mini bosses and bosses, and I see them drop much quicker than when I had pain maxed out. I also think it works well in mobs when they aren't used on the same enemy. I can't remember the last time I had to use a Stim for mana, so just having revive for mana regen is enough for me. I've tested and used every skill, including protection and the shield, but I've already stated my opinion on them so I won't be redundant. But like you said, whatever your most comfortable with is the right build for you. Thanks for your input.

[thewolf]

Wow

[Hullukko]

In order for this build to be most effect, I suggest using a weapon that makes your damage as high as possible, as this will determine the effectiveness of your spells (damage, and healing). I have found that at the current state, this is the bionic crushers and not a gun/shield combo (note: I have not looked into plat equipment).

I'd be very much interested in hearing how you came up to that conclusion.

Perhaps you've been looking at the stats page DPS and mistaken that for spell damage inclusion. Forget that. The stats DPS is just about the most useless number the game shows us. It does not factor in the enemy armor nor does it show how it is actually the base damage is the one that raises your skill damage.

I suggest you look at the effectiveness of the incinerator and crushers in practice, and from an engineer pov they both suck. Here's some data (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?37663-Analysis-on-engineer-weapons-and-skills-in-practice). It a bit of a surprise to me, too. I thought the dispenser would've been more effective and the widow yielded more skill damage that expected, but based on that data I cannot understand why a 31 engineer would wield anything but the widow + shield. (it's both the most effective and rather defensive (*))

Skillwise, your build is the same as what I have, except I keep 6 in wither and 4 in leech, but that's a totally insignificant difference.

You should only look at the plat armor if defensive style is needed, it has a massive dodge. It has a whooping difference there in damage input. But I cannot recommend buying it, since sloucho is such a breeze and the director is the only place it has any use, barring solo gaming perhaps, I can't speak for that. Everywhere else the custom atomites with an eagle eye is by far sufficient and the most effective with a clear margin.

And ditch the armor implant. Remember that healing power is just a green form of damage output. You'll do more damage and heal better with the eagle eye.Too many engineers seem to forget that.

Is that a holographic display? The limited 29 display? I have never seen a 30. Is it really a 30?

The limited 28 holo-shield has the same stats as the 29 display but the holo shield has +132 armor. Why, why would anyone choose the display?

And the 30 modified shield compared to the 28 limited shield should also be an easy pick. The armor difference is 10 for the modified, but the +9 to the int from the limited causes about 9/16 points of extra damage to every blow, spell and heal. It adds up to being more useful than the 10 armor.

Perhaps a better case for the armor/dodge implant and modified shield could be made if sloucho were more difficult, but as it is, they're worthless.

(*) which in my opinion is nothing short of a bug. it makes no sense why an engineer would yield more damage overall and healing power with a one handed weapon than with a two handed.

[GigaBits]

Hullukko, I agree completely but I just can't bring myself to not have my int as high as possible XD jk, It does seem buggy that the obvious engineer weapon(incinerator) wouldn't be the best damage/heal dealer.

As an aside, the drop rates on those limited shields seems lower( if ah prices mean anything much lower as they regularly go for thousands of creds), for those on a budget I couldn't recommend the holographic display more, it drops more and it is cheaper if you can't find one, but I can also see how a modified shield would be a place holder/alternative.

Just to reiterate, I'm not trying to refute anything anyonesaid, just offering up some additional information/opinions...okay mostly opinions:cool:

[LelouchX]

hull:
I don't really think there is any dispute that your damage affects you skills' effectiveness. Take off your weapon completely and see how much less your skills hit for, and there is your proof. my point in posting the screen shots was to show that the crushers had higher DAMAGE (not dps) than the incinerator. If you look, you will see the claws give more DAMAGE. This build is more about the SKILLS than the equips, my only point in mentioning weapons is that DAMAGE (one again, not dps) affects how much your skills will hit enemies for and how much healing you will do to allies. I agree that the Black widow does higher damage, but i had it on an alt when i took these pics so it's not included. I will edit the build when i get home from work to mention that as i feel ashamed for leaving it out in the first place. D.P.S. is only the name of the build, and i don't mean damage per second, i mean Damage Plus Support, as stated in the title. Actually, the only time i mentioned damage per second in this thread is when i was comparing the difference between the claws and gun/shield. Sorry if the title mislead you to believe otherwise.

The shield in my screenshot is indeed the 29 shield (sorry for the typo), which offers higher intelligence than the level 30 holo shield (i believe the 29 holographic display gives 9, while the 30 holo gives 5).

Gigabits, you are indeed correct that the drop rate is lower on the 28 shield. This is because it won't drop if you have someone in the party whose level is higher than 28 (i'm taking liberties here - this is how it works in PL and i haven't seen anything to suggest differently yet in SL). And since both shield offer +9 intelligence, both will affect your damage stat equally, even though the 28 will give you higher armor. If you have the money, i suggest buying the 28 shield that offers more armor as well.
EDIT: STS has fixed this, items drop according to your level now.

I can't stress enough that the purpose of this thread is to provide a skill build, and not to compare equips. I simply mentioned equips to state how they affect intelligence, and therefore, damage output as well. I've included a link to physologic's guide in my first response to demonstrate this better, perhaps I should add that to the original post as well for clarification.

I'll remove any screenshots and discussion about equips if it continues to spark debate, because I really only posted this to give what I have found to be a very effective and team beneficial skill set.

Sorry if I misinterpreted anything in your comment

[Ultros]

Very interesting notes from all. I just recently re-spec'd, and am wondering where placing my skill points will be most fruitful. Current skills are:

- Empathy 6
- Revive 1
- Transference 6
- Pain 1
- Decay 6

Currently 9 unused skill points, so now comes the fun part of debating what to spend them on :p I always thought armor implant + Protection (50 + 60 = 110def) was a worthwhile buff overall, but it seems skill points could generally be used for better endeavours. I consider myself to be full support, which is why Protection always mattered. Also now I'm not sure if sporting a shield + pistol at all times is the way to go. What to do ...

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[LelouchX]

Very interesting notes from all. I just recently re-spec'd, and am wondering where placing my skill points will be most fruitful. Current skills are:

- Empathy 6
- Revive 1
- Transference 6
- Pain 1
- Decay 6

Currently 9 unused skill points, so now comes the fun part of debating what to spend them on :p I always thought armor implant + Protection (50 + 60 = 110def) was a worthwhile buff overall, but it seems skill points could generally be used for better endeavours. I consider myself to be full support, which is why Protection always mattered. Also now I'm not sure if sporting a shield + pistol at all times is the way to go. What to do ...

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What you have here so far is basically what i suggested in my build without the wither/leech. It's up to you really, but i would shy away from protection because I personally don't think it really makes a difference in game, and enough other engis have it so you are bound to get that slight buff once in a while anyway when running without dedicating your precious skill point towards it. I originally thought the armor implant was good as well and got it, but it also seems less beneficial compared to the other implant options. If, like gigabits suggested, you don't like the idea of having 2 DOTs (wither and leech), maybe you can put some of those points toward one and the rest toward sonic boom for an extra AOE, but the cool down is far to long on sonic boom for my liking.

Good luck deciding!

[LelouchX]

Edited for clarification. Thx for your input

[Hullukko]

Hullukko, I agree completely but I just can't bring myself to not have my int as high as possible XD jk, It does seem buggy that the obvious engineer weapon(incinerator) wouldn't be the best damage/heal dealer.

The incinerator and the widow have mixed up stat bonuses, I agree, but the fact of the matter is that the incinerator is a nerf gun when it comes to skill damage. And maximising int at the cost of damage output isn't sensible. I thought I'd point out that because there just seem to be way too many commandos and engineers hovering about with the incinerator and the obvious assumption is that they're just staring their dps stat. You obviously know better, but still choose to be wrong, which is baffling in its own right. :)

But the real bug is in the Dispenser, a two-handed which cannot compete with the widow + shield in damage output. There's always been the compromise for mages in PL about wand+shield and staff. And the staff has yielded way more damage, but you've been squishier. Now, the dilemma is gone and an engineer can simply go with shield + widow and it's the best combination for all circumstances.



As an aside, the drop rates on those limited shields seems lower( if ah prices mean anything much lower as they regularly go for thousands of creds), for those on a budget I couldn't recommend the holographic display more, it drops more and it is cheaper if you can't find one, but I can also see how a modified shield would be a place holder/alternative.


The budget argument is a limping one. We are (always) talking about what one should go for, not contemplating what to do when you're broke, that can be the secondary recommendation but the first one should be the best one.

The holo display is what you wear in blackstar, but not outside it. If one is that broke, one is better off wearing the modified 30, it's cheap enough for liquidation and offers formidable armor, which probably comes in handy.


I can't stress enough that the purpose of this thread is to provide a skill build, and not to compare equips.

And as such it is excellent! I have effectively the exact same setup after all. :)

Like I said, I see too many gloves and incinerators on engineers in the game that I thought we who know better here in the forums should probably refrain from advertising them any further.

[LelouchX]

Thanks for your detailed responses! I welcome constructive comments but hate things like "i don't like it" or "that is stupid."


Like I said, I see too many gloves and incinerators on engineers in the game that I thought we who know better here in the forums should probably refrain from advertising them any further.
If you haven't yet, take a look back at my original post. I have edited it and added a screenshot to show the improvement that the black widow/shield has over other weapon choices. I WILL NOT be changing the screenshots now that I have obtained the Lv 28 holo shield though, i've got a little lazy in me yet, and it only offers a defense boost from the lv 29 holographic display used in the screenshots, all other stat boosts between the 2 are identical.


If one is that broke, one is better off wearing the modified 30, it's cheap enough for liquidation and offers formidable armor, which probably comes in handy.
I have used both the lv 30 holo (134 armor but lower int boost) and the lv 29 holographic display (34 armor i believe but higher int boost), and have not had any issues with my health getting low using either shield, even when running stage 4 and 5 of slouch. So my suggestion is to try using the lv 29 first since it gives you more int, and if you are noticing that your health is getting low, then switch to the lv 30 for the higher defense. And i can't even remember the last time i used a stim on my engi, either. Both are rather cheap in auction, somewhere in the 30-200 cred range last few times i checked.

Edit:
One more thing...........

the incinerator is a nerf gun
LMFAO

[GigaBits]

As usual, incredibly astute observations, hullukko. I will keep that in mind for future posts/comments. It was just an aside and I appreciate your input.

[LelouchX]

edited to add an addition mob strategy for the diehard engi fans!

[LelouchX]

So I'm currently undergoing some experiments with help of 2 great guildies and friends to test the effectiveness of this build and another's guildie's build. I look forwards to posting the results along with some screenshots. More details to come in the near future.

Edit, also Click Here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?38936-A-quick-study-in-Pistol-Shield-vs.-Rifles-and-Gloves-from-an-Engineers-Perspective.) for an anlysis/discussion of engi gear. thanks deathpunch, you save me a lot of time

[Meii]

I just redid my skills sheet to this guide, and it seems to be more effective than the other guide i followed (forgot which one).

Thx for the how to use guide too. Before i was just button mashing with the spells, but after individually targeting enemies and casting they are dropping like flies!

:)

[LelouchX]

UPDATED!!! Did somebody say......tanking engi? Oh yeah, that was me. Check it out, screenshots added!


I just redid my skills sheet to this guide, and it seems to be more effective than the other guide i followed (forgot which one).

Thx for the how to use guide too. Before i was just button mashing with the spells, but after individually targeting enemies and casting they are dropping like flies!

:)

Glad you like! Check out the recent update, hope it's a little more insightful.

[Teddyache]

Hey buddy, thanks for the shout out in the update. I have a thought about your skill layout. I have the same exact skill point allocation with 1 less in leech since I'm not at 31, but I put empathy in the same slot on both skill screens so that it is always accessible without having to switch. You have an empty slot in one screen so you could do this too. The downside is that I have decay on screen 2 and wither and leech on screen 1 so I can't activate them as I switch targets as easily as you can but I'm thinking about switching decay and transference so my layout would be:

Screen 1:
Empathy - 6
Decay - 6
Wither - 5
Leech - 4

Screen 2:
Empathy - 6
Transference - 6
Pain - 1
Revive - 1

I think this is a better layout than what I posted on the KoC forum. What do you think?

[LelouchX]

I think that is better than what you posted on our guild forum, but I still like the idea of having decay, pain, wither, and leech all in the same slot. Whatever is the easiest way for u to use the skills if the best way to place them. I alady have the muscle memory for how i mapped them, so im going to leave it that way for now and see if we get a new skill with the update. Here is a copy/paste of Teddy's post from our forum for everyone else's referece.


So, I've been using the exact same build for some time and have switched to the Black Widow and shield combo and started targeting different mobs on my DoT skills like you suggested, so thanks for that! However, I do have a suggestion for improving your skill layout. I'm sure you are used to your layout, but I think wasting a skill slot is, well, a waste!

Here is what you posted:
-Transferance - 6
-Revive - 1
-Empathy - 6

Slot 2
-Wither - 5
-Leech - 5
-Pain - 1
-Decy - 6

I see that your skill layout is basically heals versus damage, which is a good way to break it down but what I suggest is putting empathy or transference in the same spot on both skill screens for ease of accessing a heal at all times. Having it in the same slot on both screens makes the muscle memory easier too. The way I have my skills set up is as follows:

Slot 1:
Empathy - 6
Wither - 5
Leech - 4 (I'm only at level 30)
Transference - 6

Slot 2:
Empathy - 6
Decay - 6
Pain - 1
Revive - 1


There are two downsides to my layout. The less important is that we don't know what the last engineer skill will be so I may have to change this where you can stick it in the empty slot. The more immediate one that affects gameplay is having to switch slots to access decay after casting wither and leech. Due to the cool down, I don't use it as much except for bosses, mini bosses, and tough mobs so this is fine by me. In your tanking play style, this will be more of a detriment.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I also feel like it is a waste having that spot open, but I really just don't know what to put there!

[Teddyache]

I figured you would say that, lol. What about putting transference in both screens instead of empathy? Do you spam pain? I tend to not use it for venomous and scorcher runs except the mini bosses, but I do use it for mobs in Wasted and Director runs, so that would matter more in harder levels. Hmmmm, I'm a bit torn now. I guess I'm kind of thinking out loud at this point... I guess the only thing to do is try it out and see!!!

[LelouchX]

I figured you would say that, lol. What about putting transference in both screens instead of empathy? Do you spam pain? I tend to not use it for venomous and scorcher runs except the mini bosses, but I do use it for mobs in Wasted and Director runs, so that would matter more in harder levels. Hmmmm, I'm a bit torn now. I guess I'm kind of thinking out loud at this point... I guess the only thing to do is try it out and see!!!

Hahaha, i just can't see myself being happy unless decay, pain, wither, and leech are in the same slot. Maybe it is my OCD, idk. I just haven't felt the need to fill that empty spot yet on the other slot. When i multi-target, sometimes i will try to aim for the back target with pain and sometimes he will stay alive for the 3 seconds so it can cause AoE damage. Even if it doesn't, it still does instant damage and i never have to use stims for mana so i see no reason not to spam it even for that little extra damage it does. I do like to make sure it is off cool down tho before a boss/mini-boss.

[Just Me]

Nice guide, and lol "yoga pants whilst cooking" -kelmud

[Cyberius]

Nice build! Mine's very similar as I'm a more aggressive Engi. I only lay back on the later levels of Shipyard if I'm the only Engi. And yes, at level 33 I can solo heal the final boss with little to no drama with this build. I completely agree with your reasoning in skill choice but one: I skipped Wither in favor of 4 points in Force Field for the +2 Mana regen. I like to be able to have Empathy going in every encounter. Even if the enemy force is relatively weak. I do this to build the group's confidence in me as a healer. I've found that the group will charge forward much more willingly if they know I've got their backs. This is especially true in PUGs. I don't usually burn through mana that quickly but I refuse to use stims. Should I die,(hardly ever) Revive and Force Field bring the mana up fairly quickly due to the doubling of my regen. With the 36 level cap I may add Wither tho. But there is the mystery of what that last blacked out skill might be so maybe I'll save my points. Have to wait for the next expansion...

[Hullukko]

I figured you would say that, lol. What about putting transference in both screens instead of empathy? Do you spam pain? I tend to not use it for venomous and scorcher runs except the mini bosses, but I do use it for mobs in Wasted and Director runs, so that would matter more in harder levels. Hmmmm, I'm a bit torn now. I guess I'm kind of thinking out loud at this point... I guess the only thing to do is try it out and see!!!

Put the boom in there. You can always drop one point from, i dunno, leech or something and put it to boom. With current base damages the one point boom thrown properly to large groups of enemies yields more than that one point in leech ever will. (inspite of the lengthy cooldown)

[LelouchX]

Put the boom in there. You can always drop one point from, i dunno, leech or something and put it to boom. With current base damages the one point boom thrown properly to large groups of enemies yields more than that one point in leech ever will. (inspite of the lengthy cooldown)

Why'd you have to do that!!! I have't edited yet since i got my extra skill points going to lv 35!!! LoL, anyway, yeah, i gave boom some action, i think it is more helpful in SY than it ever was in slouch. i'll edit my original post soon, i promise! Thanks for the insight!


Nice guide, and lol "yoga pants whilst cooking" -kelmud
Lol, thx


Nice build! Mine's very similar as I'm a more aggressive Engi. I only lay back on the later levels of Shipyard if I'm the only Engi.
Thanks, yeah, i was taking in SY3 (i know, its not that hard, but helps squishy ops stay alove longer) when there was no com and never got low on health, and was still able to heal the group as needed.


Empathy going in every encounter. Even if the enemy force is relatively weak. I do this to build the group's confidence in me as a healer. I've found that the group will charge forward much more willingly if they know I've got their backs
Ditto


But there is the mystery of what that last blacked out skill might be so maybe I'll save my points. Have to wait for the next expansion...
Eh, i used all the skill points, you'll see when i edit OP. I respecced about 15 times already, what's one more when the last skill comes out?

[Teddyache]

Almost at 34 now. I'll put my next skill point in the boom! Thanks Hull and Eye!

[LelouchX]

Updated finally, sorry it took so long. Edited parts are marked with date, looking forward to your insights

[LelouchX]

tweaked it a little more, edited parts marked with date

[LelouchX]

Ok, last update before next expansion probably, TANKIN ENGI TANKIN ENGI TANKIN ENGI with new screenshots from SY5!!!

[Cyberius]

Ok, last update before next expansion probably, TANKIN ENGI TANKIN ENGI TANKIN ENGI with new screenshots from SY5!!!

Nice update! While I still stubbornly cling to my build with a death grip, it's really not all that different and I play about the same as you. I prefer "Heavily Armored Healah" as my title tho since we don't get any real taunt/aggro holding skills like Com's do :P Just a note on keeping over excited Ops from damage: I like to toss Pain at the offending mob. Gives the team a little time to get him under control :)


IGN: Psyonic

[melancholy-storm]

Great guide! My build is already similar, only I don't use sonic boom. Instead I maxed wither/leech, and that works so long as I choose a target in the back of the crowd that isn't going to be insta-killed by the party.

[LelouchX]

Great guide! My build is already similar, only I don't use sonic boom. Instead I maxed wither/leech, and that works so long as I choose a target in the back of the crowd that isn't going to be insta-killed by the party.
I wrote off boom for a long time bc of the cool down, but I love trying to make a class my own and use it a way most others don't, and the engi is perfect for this. you'll see tons of different combinations of skills used by any engi. in addition to this, I always loved to tank in PL but I just don't enjoy the com class in SL (sorry to those who love it). I get so excited when there is no com in SY5 run (sry again guys, nothing personal) bc it means I get to tank. sonic boom, combined with trans and healing skills, just grabs aggro and hold on for dear life

This build is something that took me a while to perfect (or near perfect i guess, nobody is perfect), and if anyone reading can even just use pieces of my insights to make something that works great for them, then I'm happy.

And and I know that with the amout of people that have said they use something similar, I must be doing something right.

[LelouchX]

So i haven't done much with this since the new enxpansion, been busy, but i'd be happy to squeeze some time in to try to do runs and get screenies so i can update it if there is anyone interested.

edit: ok, so i read through this fully last night while i was trying to offer some advice on another thread, and i realized there are way too many "edits" in OP and i've also tweeked some of my tactics a bit more. I'm gonna fix it up big time tonight after work and offer tactics for effective use in all expansions rather than just the most recent one. i'll also do my best to fix up the "how to level" section. Not everyone is at end game levels and i want this build to be useful to all, not a select just a select few. I'm getting all excited again

[LelouchX]

Extreme Makeover: Engi Edition!!! Added detailed stat and shield info, along with incorporating all my edits into their sections to make it flow better. Let me know what you think, and as always, constructive criticism is welcome.

[Shanda Renee]

I have only been playing SL for 3 days and like in PL and all other MMOs I have played over the years, I have always preferred the support role. Before hitting level 23, I didnt think to come here to check for guides - duh! But I am glad I did, many of what you discussed I figured out with trial and error but you have also explained why certain skills work and when. Thanks so much for your effort to help fellow Eng. I will be doing some rearranging of skills when I hit 25. Also can you recommend a poor woman on what gear to buy, I have next to 0 saved because I dont know what sells and havent purchased any extra auction slots to do so.

[Teddyache]

Also can you recommend a poor woman on what gear to buy, I have next to 0 saved because I dont know what sells and havent purchased any extra auction slots to do so.

I wouldn't waste your money on custom armor then because it doesn't add much in terms of stats. The +1 m/s set bonus is great but the rest is not worth it unless you are rich in game or looking for the best gear to PvP (I don't but have heard engie's are not a good class for PvP). When you get to level 40, the purple drops come rolling in so you'll gear up easily when you catch up to the current level cap. You can also buy level 40 purple gear for like 50 credits. For now, I think it will be better to spend your limited money on a good implant but which one depends on your style. I prefer damage because it improves your skill damage and heals as well as your weapon damage. Use a pistol and shield for survivability as well. I think shields start dropping in Slouch-O so you're not quite there yet. For now, use a rifle for max damage.

In the meantime, use the free daily elixir to get some free luck, which improves your drops. I think the daily includes a 25% luck elixir, meaning it improves one of every four drops on average. Since it only lasts 5 minutes, try to get through a boss battle to improve your chances of a good drop.

Hope that helps!