Criticism Incoming

[Bazinga!]

There had to be one of these eventually. But I don't want to dismiss the work STS has done for PL either, so let's first appreciate the fact that we got a new cap, and PvP is (I think) better, at least at 76.

Okay, so I have pretty mixed feelings for this update. Neither was I expecting, nor did I want a new cap. I feel like all the glory of a new expansion is just for name's sake (Wow, a new level; what a good update!). That's all there is to it. Honestly, it's just leveling up again.

What other incentive is there to level up to 85 other than having a level advantage in PvP and getting gear with better stats. Here are some things I'm quite annoyed about.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

1> About the new Items (or not so new after all).

Back when PL never got any updates, people considered it amazing to get anything. This happened with the 77 cap. 300K XP to keep players engaged, reuse of Crystal items, and then another long run without updates. STS could have literally made the 77.5 cap after 77 and it would have been considered a blessing. But things are quite different now.

When STS decided to start a series of updates for PL, they should have known that reusing items over and over again won't help improve the game. Think from the perspective of a new player. It's all good till 76, and then there's a severe lack of quality thereafter. He's probably wondering what happened to the game. And now it's happened again, for the billionth time.

Also what is quite pissing off is that people spent their money to buy new items, and the items are of no use after a week. And I'm not only talking about DEREX, INTEX and STRAX. What about the speed sets? Absolutely useless after winter.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

2> About the new cap

I'd have to call this a new cap, and just that. It's not nearly an expansion, just a new cap. Once again, temporary engagement. Giving people a good enough reason to spend hundreds of dollars to enjoy the tedious process of leveling up, but not really giving any quality. And it's special this time, because you don't get any items till you're 85! Awesome, right?

Initially, some reusing and recoloring (okay, a lot) was done to pique people's interest in the game. These were usually event updates like winter and Halloween. But remaking the game won't work forever. And it's extremely disappointing that the same thing has happened with a cap. To me, a cap is supposed to be a big update; a new stage.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

3> Stuff in general.

I feel that the lack of quality content and updates in PL is making a worse impact on the game. I don't play AL, but I'm pretty sure that STS wouldn't dare recolor a single item and release it as even a new seasonal event, let alone a cap. That's because AL players actually have expectations, unlike some PL players. I feel that STS is using PL as a powerhouse and releasing whatever they can as frequently as they can for large amounts of platinum. And unless STS really doesn't know how to make a good update, which I refuse to believe, they know this as well.

I also feel bad that I have to say all this, but when a player feels like that, it's better to just leave it, because no amount of updates would convince that player to spend on the game. Rather, I would have made a long term update, that players can dabble with for a while, like stakes in PvP (just throwing it out there ;p).

PL has probably reached the point of no return. 8 levels worth of bad updates (77-85). If it's not worth leveling up a whole 8 levels of the game, it's not worth playing it at all.



What I'm trying to say:

STS doesn't want to use their staff to update PL. What they do with their own staff and their own game is their concern, and I don't intend to interfere. But make updates that are feasible for a limited amount of people to make.

Please don't try huge updates like new caps, and then reuse items for the sake of finishing it. Small updates can be meaningful and can have a bigger impact. Tournaments and contests are a good way, if not the best way to keep players engaged, yet I rarely see a single contest or tournament.

Nobody's is denying that you're just updating for the money, so I'll put it out there as well. But if you've decided that you want to update PL, at least make quality updates.

[IdontReply]

A different perspective is needed here. After playing several years the game would not be appealing that way. Imagine WHAT IF, we had a cap like humania, literally after 2-3 runs, it would be same repetitive xp runs. In this elixor dominating phase different old school approach to bosses even is not needed, even if something is done to implement that most players would complain that, 'wow this is so hard, sts is crazy' rather than focusing on their own abilities. Then all those worthless junk gears, that would actually harash me to liquidate and literally worth nothing.

There are a lot new approaches that I'm really liking, even the purpose have been different.

1) Pretty much less junk items, neat, clean and small maps.

2) Charming xp loots, luck specific and huge xp looting on mobs, mini bosses. Loving this.

3) Hosting and manual game joining ain't possible.

4) You have to go through the first map to reach next map.

5) New elite items drop rates looking quite good and much much better than the special elite drops in the 80 cap.

6) Cleaver division of specific elixir users, just one needed to buy hunter elix and 4 others could farm with p shade. Now all need that to farm in fast class.

7) The second map is quite neat clean and beautiful. I liked it.

If you look at this new approaches, you will find that there are quite lots of interesting and somewhat challenging but different things are there, at least I do, its better than repetitive monotonous orthodox approach. Cinco is successful at this, in his limited schedule :)

- I don't reply back

[Burningdex]

Well i mean, for starters, there's no need to cuss on a public forum, that just makes you look bad. Ever since this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?205164-Regarding-future-development-on-legacy-games) thread we all knew items were going to be recoloured, with no new content. Just be thankful for the effort Cinco is putting in, it's appreciated by many.

Sure, i agree, releasing the L80 elites to the plat store and then adding a cap was a silly move, one which has upset a lot of players.

But overall, i think we should just be thankful that the server is still up.. it, in my opinion has always been the community that made this game what it is anyway.

I also think, having just Cinco working on this game seriously limits what is financially possible to make as well, keep that in mind.

edit: missed first reply by a < a minute, </3 gg.

[Zapoke]

Wow. 8 levels make you not want to play the entire game? You must not have really liked the game, then, if you can't find any content in the other 76 levels that you like. The wonderful thing about PL is that you don't need to cap in it to have fun. In fact, I haven't done any leveling past 70 since the weekend of BSM's release, and I still enjoy the game just fine.

1) There's a good reason things past 76 have reduced quality. Wanna know why? It's Cinco by himself instead of him and a team. :x Adding new items for higher levels does improve the game (more item variety stat wise), and unless something drastically changed recently, they've been reusing item meshes since the start of the game. Why does it matter if they don't all have unique looks? They're still unique items. People spending money on new items is just a poor way to manage money in an MMO. Obviously that stuff is going to be over priced. You should be buying it with the knowledge that you are over paying.

2) Everyone has always called PL level cap increases level cap increases. Don't remember anyone ever calling it an expansion. Besides, it's an expansion if it expands the game, therefore no matter how much is added, it's still technically an expansion. When is the last time you used pre-cap equipment on a character you were leveling? Who would bother with it? The only use for it is in PvP, and the lack of these items is hardly detrimental (in fact, I'm of the opinion that the lower scaled items hurt PvP somewhat since it renders the items 1 level lower than them moot by and large). You shouldn't be increasing your expectations back to be what PL updates were for caps. That's unfair to Cinco. :/

3) Yeah, here's the thing.. PL isn't AL. They are very different. PL has had reskins and re-releases of items throughout its history. Can't say much about AL since I haven't really touched it, but the point is more that you shouldn't compare the two in the first place. I have expectations, but my expectations are limited since there is a limited amount of people working on PL updates.

You're right, though. This kind of thread was inevitable. However, it wasn't really needed on this topic. :x Criticizing the balance changes and basic systems in the game is fair, but calling new content pointless because it's not as good as old content is pretty unfair no matter how I look at it, as I'm sure you picked up on through my response.

[Bazinga!]

Well i mean, for starters, there's no need to cuss on a public forum, that just makes you look bad. Ever since this (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?205164-Regarding-future-development-on-legacy-games) thread we all knew items were going to be recoloured, with no new content. Just be thankful for the effort Cinco is putting in, it's appreciated by many.

Sure, i agree, releasing the L80 elites to the plat store and then adding a cap was a silly move, one which has upset a lot of players.

But overall, i think we should just be thankful that the server is still up.. it, in my opinion has always been the community that made this game what it is anyway.

Where did I cuss? I made sure that I didn't anywhere. Sorry if I did. And secondly, this is exactly what I'm talking about. "Just be thankful... etc."
Thanks for proving my point I guess. PL players have no expectations. A part of me wants to say that as well, but the disappointment is overwhelming.

@ Idontreply

None of what you've mentioned is new on content. If I'm not wrong, there are minibosses all the way back in Alien Oasis. Drop rates, concepts such as elixirs and not being able to host have nothing to do with the content. Players could think of these by themselves. In fact there are tons of player suggestions which have been ignored. One thing that's good on STS' part is that they've finally started listening to the players (in terms of PvP changes).

Tell me honestly yourself - disregarding better stats, would you buy an expensive elixir for a chance to get a savage armor and helm in a different color?

[Bazinga!]

Wow. 8 levels make you not want to play the entire game? You must not have really liked the game, then, if you can't find any content in the other 76 levels that you like. The wonderful thing about PL is that you don't need to cap in it to have fun. In fact, I haven't done any leveling past 70 since the weekend of BSM's release, and I still enjoy the game just fine.

That's not my point at all. I've already leveled up where it was worth leveling up. A new player shouldn't level up to find that the next 8 levels are the same as previous content.


1) There's a good reason things past 76 have reduced quality. Wanna know why? It's Cinco by himself instead of him and a team. :x Adding new items for higher levels does improve the game (more item variety stat wise), and unless something drastically changed recently, they've been reusing item meshes since the start of the game. Why does it matter if they don't all have unique looks? They're still unique items. People spending money on new items is just a poor way to manage money in an MMO. Obviously that stuff is going to be over priced. You should be buying it with the knowledge that you are over paying.

Yeah, but honestly we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, or at least we shouldn't. The company's problems and dedications have nothing to do with us. If they don't want to assign a team to Pocket Legends, it's absolutely fine. But my expectations of Pocket Legends won't decrease because of this. They aren't spending time on Pocket Legends knowing that they cannot keep the players playing the game, and they are trying to get the most out of PL. When it comes to AL, STS is a game developing company, but when it comes to PL, STS is a business.



2) Everyone has always called PL level cap increases level cap increases. Don't remember anyone ever calling it an expansion. Besides, it's an expansion if it expands the game, therefore no matter how much is added, it's still technically an expansion. When is the last time you used pre-cap equipment on a character you were leveling? Who would bother with it? The only use for it is in PvP, and the lack of these items is hardly detrimental (in fact, I'm of the opinion that the lower scaled items hurt PvP somewhat since it renders the items 1 level lower than them moot by and large). You shouldn't be increasing your expectations back to be what PL updates were for caps. That's unfair to Cinco. :/


You're taking everything literally. I meant that the cap isn't special or different from any regular update at all, which it should be. Again, it's not about the one-man army working on PL. It's about STS' decision to leave the responsibility of PL to one person.



3) Yeah, here's the thing.. PL isn't AL. They are very different. PL has had reskins and re-releases of items throughout its history. Can't say much about AL since I haven't really touched it, but the point is more that you shouldn't compare the two in the first place. I have expectations, but my expectations are limited since there is a limited amount of people working on PL updates.

Why can't I compare the two? I'll keep comparing the two until STS says that PL will never be as good as AL. The day they say this publicly on forums, I'll give up. However, that'll just be STS giving up on their own creations. I don't want to repeat my opinion about expectations again. You know it already.



Criticizing the balance changes and basic systems in the game is fair, but calling new content pointless because it's not as good as old content is pretty unfair no matter how I look at it

Sorry, but I feel that criticising new content for not being as good as it was is perfectly reasonable. I'm sure you picked it up from my response.

[Burningdex]

But my expectations of Pocket Legends wont decrease because of this
Well that's completely unfair, imagine having say, a high school with omly one teacher and still expecting amazing hsc/equivalent results at the end of high school because they achieved that when multiple teachers were there. Ridiculous.

(Bad analogy, but you get my point)

[Bazinga!]

Well that's completely unfair, imagine having say, a high school with omly one teacher and still expecting amazing hsc/equivalent results at the end of high school because they achieved that when multiple teachers were there. Ridiculous.

(Bad analogy, but you get my point)

No, your analogy is completely wrong. This is the situation - there used to be 2 teachers who taught higher secondary maths, and the syllabus was being completed at a steady pace. Now one teacher has been moved to a lower class, so the only higher secondary maths teacher has to rush to complete every chapter.

Their staff isn't decreasing at all. Their dedication towards the game is, and hence one person is assigned to take care of Pocket Legends.

If what you stated above was in fact the case, I would have no expectations (literally zero). But it isn't. STS is deliberately not using manpower to update PL.

[Blyzzor]

It's hard to invest a lot in Pl anymore since it has been a dead game for them for a long time.. it would take ridiculously a lot of effort and money to make proper stuff for Pl and the game itself isn't in that spot anymore, it attracts very little players and it's quite outdated in the current state. It should've been done at 76 cap and at 76 cap PL was still on the original direction of the game but they stalled 76 cap for too long and it's just hard to recover.

I think essentially what STS tried to do is invest everything into updating AL back then and make it a HUGE game, something like clash of clans level big, I always thought that they could keep the game alive with little updates because even in 76-77 caps PL had a good amount of players, and people would've been so happy if they got the type of stuff cinco is doing right now

[Bazinga!]

My simple point is don't attempt to make something big if you don't have the bandwidth to. You can make a small but meaningful update. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an update. Contests? Tournaments? These are the things that keep a game alive, not massive updates and new caps. All the nonsense that I've posted up there is a desperate attempt to say this. So if you have anything to say about my post, say it about this.

[Cinco]

Thanks for your thoughtful feedback!

[Bazinga!]

Thanks for your thoughtful feedback!

I hope you didn't take it too personally. Sometimes I get deep into a topic when I want to talk about it, and somehow never get to the point. I know you're working extremely hard to get us updates, but they don't necessarily have to be big. I wouldn't sacrifice quality for quantity. Regular contests and tournaments does the job of keeping the community active.

[Engelhard]

As an old player who hasn't played in years I loved the update and though it was very well thought out. Yes some of the new things require plat but we were always running elixers in the past when grinding out massive amounts of xp. The first class teams are very fun, fast paced and exciting. Excitement I haven't seen in PL in a long time. Quit complaining it wasn't that long ago when it was announced no more updates and we thought this game could be gone forever. Thank you Cinco your hard work is much appreciated and I hope you ignore the few that don't like it and continue having fun with your game and giving us new content anytime you please. Again I thought the new content was awesome and has brought back a few older players and I think if this continues a lot more people will be back. Ps. The little pocket legends push notification is what got my attention to come check it out.

[Bazinga!]

As an old player who hasn't played in years I loved the update and though it was very well thought out. Yes some of the new things require plat but we were always running elixers in the past when grinding out massive amounts of xp. The first class teams are very fun, fast paced and exciting. Excitement I haven't seen in PL in a long time. Quit complaining it wasn't that long ago when it was announced no more updates and we thought this game could be gone forever. Thank you Cinco your hard work is much appreciated and I hope you ignore the few that don't like it and continue having fun with your game and giving us new content anytime you please. Again I thought the new content was awesome and has brought back a few older players and I think if this continues a lot more people will be back. Ps. The little pocket legends push notification is what got my attention to come check it out.

There are a lot of people in game who are not on the forums who don't want to cap even the slightest bit; who say that PL would've been better without "....." update. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that everyone has the same opinion. I understand your point of view as a player who hasn't come online for a while. But having your opinion doesn't mean you have the right to disregard opinions you don't like and tell others to ignore them. I've stated that I undoubtedly appreciate all of Cinco's work. I'm just saying that it's not my expectation though. Obviously you would have a different opinion because the last news you heard of the game was that it wasn't being updated.

[Engelhard]

Ignore was not the right term I do apologize. I hope he focuses on the positive and not only the negative. Positive criticism is good but it is not all bad. Just want them to know updates are much appreciated at least by me anyway. I just don't want people to make him feel like the game is not worth the time because we all know pocket legends was STS first love and it was a joy for me to play once again with new content.

[Bazinga!]

Ignore was not the right term I do apologize. I hope he focuses on the positive and not only the negative. Positive criticism is good but it is not all bad. Just want them to know updates are much appreciated at least by me anyway. I just don't want people to make him feel like the game is not worth the time because we all know pocket legends was STS first love and it was a joy for me to play once again with new content.

Yeah I usually regret these kinds of posts because they go over the top. Sometimes the criticism overshadows the appreciation and I'd never want that to happen unless it's really deserved, which it never is when it comes to Cinco. I know it's hard to work hard on something and then have it completely undermined.

Cinco was almost definitely being sarcastic when he said thoughtful feedback, which made me feel like my message was too harsh. But I really do hope we get to see more updates and especially tournaments and contests.

[IdontReply]

The things like contest and tournament can't bring such activity, not even closely. Infect it would be far behind making majority happy.

As engelhard is not representing majority of pl-ers, neither you do nor I. But majority is happy and want such updates rather than no updates, this is well known fact, you can't deny neither you should.

The thing you doing would only de-motivate devs, because so called quality level cap expansions seems to be far from reality as of now. But providing idea for tournies/contest etc would be really constructive at this point, IMHO.

[Bazinga!]

Infect

Oh my God, you're Waug.

Also I agree with the tournies/contests thing. That should've been the main part of my post rather than a long thread about what's wrong.

[3pc]

What do you mean i look so sexy now with this new gear only this i dislike is that is was a repeat cap we love originality not repeats :).

[Suentous PO]

Oh my God, you're Waug.


HA! Doxed! Gg gg

Don't worry evading bans is now legal in pl as reciently history has made evident. Lmao

[Fwend]

We all have the right to have our own opinions.

I understand why some dislike the re-used content, re-colouring of the maps.

But, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Why look for faults in something that we have been given? Cinco and others have worked very hard, made an effort to listen to us and try to improve the game. Making pvp updates, seasonal updates as well as new cap expansions. Yes, its not perfect, but I still appreciate it greatly.

Look how the active the game is now, some older friends have come back. Yes people still continue to quit, but life moves quickly and people get busy and move on.

I love the new and improved PL, they have revived it with a pay to win incentive. I prefer this Pocket Legends compared to the days of BSM cap of 1 year and 9 months, then Ancient Caverns cap and the inevitable announcement of "no new updates on all Lengend's games by Justg".

I'll will take any expansion, seasonal updates and pvp improvements any day over nothing at all.

[Bazinga!]

I just thought that they would put more work into making a cap than making a seasonal event. I know it's tough to keep making new items every time an event comes for a game with a comparatively small player base, but when you're making something big - make it perfect as well.

1000 plat for recolored items is what I'm mad about man. Make all the money you want after providing good quality content.

[slamm3dsoc13ty]

so youre saying this is bad quality content? How are you going to complain about updates on a game that JustG himself said there wouldnt be anymore updates on almost 2yrs ago and yet here we are getting a new cap and even more so events added to the best game STS has made. I loved the BSM cap and I look forward to a reskinned BSM set. "savage, swift and fiery sets" Alot of people loved BSM cap just liked i did and loved the sets aswell in it.

TY CINCO <3

[Kingzila]

There had to be one of these eventually. But I don't want to dismiss the work STS has done for PL either, so let's first appreciate the fact that we got a new cap, and PvP is (I think) better, at least at 76.

Okay, so I have pretty mixed feelings for this update. Neither was I expecting, nor did I want a new cap. I feel like all the glory of a new expansion is just for name's sake (Wow, a new level; what a good update!). That's all there is to it. Honestly, it's just leveling up again.

What other incentive is there to level up to 85 other than having a level advantage in PvP and getting gear with better stats. Here are some things I'm quite annoyed about.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

1> About the new Items (or not so new after all).

Back when PL never got any updates, people considered it amazing to get anything. This happened with the 77 cap. 300K XP to keep players engaged, reuse of Crystal items, and then another long run without updates. STS could have literally made the 77.5 cap after 77 and it would have been considered a blessing. But things are quite different now.

When STS decided to start a series of updates for PL, they should have known that reusing items over and over again won't help improve the game. Think from the perspective of a new player. It's all good till 76, and then there's a severe lack of quality thereafter. He's probably wondering what happened to the game. And now it's happened again, for the billionth time.

Also what is quite pissing off is that people spent their money to buy new items, and the items are of no use after a week. And I'm not only talking about DEREX, INTEX and STRAX. What about the speed sets? Absolutely useless after winter.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

2> About the new cap

I'd have to call this a new cap, and just that. It's not nearly an expansion, just a new cap. Once again, temporary engagement. Giving people a good enough reason to spend hundreds of dollars to enjoy the tedious process of leveling up, but not really giving any quality. And it's special this time, because you don't get any items till you're 85! Awesome, right?

Initially, some reusing and recoloring (okay, a lot) was done to pique people's interest in the game. These were usually event updates like winter and Halloween. But remaking the game won't work forever. And it's extremely disappointing that the same thing has happened with a cap. To me, a cap is supposed to be a big update; a new stage.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

3> Stuff in general.

I feel that the lack of quality content and updates in PL is making a worse impact on the game. I don't play AL, but I'm pretty sure that STS wouldn't dare recolor a single item and release it as even a new seasonal event, let alone a cap. That's because AL players actually have expectations, unlike some PL players. I feel that STS is using PL as a powerhouse and releasing whatever they can as frequently as they can for large amounts of platinum. And unless STS really doesn't know how to make a good update, which I refuse to believe, they know this as well.

I also feel bad that I have to say all this, but when a player feels like that, it's better to just leave it, because no amount of updates would convince that player to spend on the game. Rather, I would have made a long term update, that players can dabble with for a while, like stakes in PvP (just throwing it out there ;p).

PL has probably reached the point of no return. 8 levels worth of bad updates (77-85). If it's not worth leveling up a whole 8 levels of the game, it's not worth playing it at all.



What I'm trying to say:

STS doesn't want to use their staff to update PL. What they do with their own staff and their own game is their concern, and I don't intend to interfere. But make updates that are feasible for a limited amount of people to make.

Please don't try huge updates like new caps, and then reuse items for the sake of finishing it. Small updates can be meaningful and can have a bigger impact. Tournaments and contests are a good way, if not the best way to keep players engaged, yet I rarely see a single contest or tournament.

Nobody's is denying that you're just updating for the money, so I'll put it out there as well. But if you've decided that you want to update PL, at least make quality updates.

Everyone's wants new stuff & everyone wants new items, yet I have a 100% sureness you don't even know what coding goes into said items to make them, or the amount of time it takes to 3d render a object of said quality after the time and effort to draw one up is done. The process to make new gear and not just change a few colors or animations is "costly" not just in money but time. It takes people away from more important task to do this one little flunk of nothingness.

Like I famous man once said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

[Kingzila]

As an old player who hasn't played in years I loved the update and though it was very well thought out. Yes some of the new things require plat but we were always running elixers in the past when grinding out massive amounts of xp. The first class teams are very fun, fast paced and exciting. Excitement I haven't seen in PL in a long time. Quit complaining it wasn't that long ago when it was announced no more updates and we thought this game could be gone forever. Thank you Cinco your hard work is much appreciated and I hope you ignore the few that don't like it and continue having fun with your game and giving us new content anytime you please. Again I thought the new content was awesome and has brought back a few older players and I think if this continues a lot more people will be back. Ps. The little pocket legends push notification is what got my attention to come check it out.

When you buy 2000 plat to move to 76 from lvl 66 post update and it's all gone in the same day and your only 74. And that's why I like the idea of giving xp packs until you cap in the new areas, it gives a reason to cap beyond being on the boards or being with everyone els capped like how it was back in my tron times. You don't feel like you wasted all your money racing to the top for nothing to be there. It's like racing to the top of a mountain just to be like " huh, now how do I get down? " beyond dragon runs & forgotten area you raced to 76 just to be level 76 lol.
You run an area to

[synfullmagic_23110]

what in tarnation