View Full Version : 80-85 pvp suggestions
Duckypowerz
03-03-2017, 04:41 PM
So from pvping at 85 I have noticed a few things that I think if changed could help make pvp more balanced and better off.
1. Reduce blaster dmg by 250 because right now it does way to much dmg. It should have less dmg than the recurve(oktal bow) but have more range because after all it's a Xbow. It would be like at 60-61 or 70-71 where the sang long bow has more dmg than demo Xbow but the Xbow has more range and also like how phantom has more range but less dmg than recurve.
2. I also think making the 80-85 gear class specific will help pvp because people are mixing gear with str currently and it is just ridiculously overpowered. You get cases where people use str gear and a 80 wand and kill pure int 85 oktal set Mages easily. Or people using 80 blaster with 85 str armor and helm so they have loads of health and armor but almost the same dmg as a pure dex set is getting.
3. Finally because bears would be forced to use str gear if we changed to class specific they need a dmg boost on 1h sword. It currently does not do enough dmg to compete with the int sets or dex sets.
I truly believe this will help balance out pvp at endgame, thanks for reading!
largecommander
03-03-2017, 05:51 PM
nah i think it's good right now. only thing maybe change is decrease dodge some on sets to get rid of the luck factor some more
by making things class specific you just decrease diversity so i totally disagree. yes birds with str armor and helm with blaster get health and yes mages with str armor and helm with wand get health but they have way less dmg and that's their weakness. they are not op, they are just counters to certain builds. they give up so much dmg to get that extra health
also the sword set is pretty good. i know plenty of str bears who do well with it including my own id say
1. Blaster won't be viable even the class birds won't be viable if blaster damage is nerfed from this point and 250 is a huge numbed to make it worthless, because otherwise str , specially pallies will get unkillble. Death bow may provide more damage as set bonus as death staff and dagger also should
2. Increasing base point requirement a little bit so that L85 str set mages cant equip L80 wand and L85 str set birds can equip 80 blaster, that's enough, other than the normal hybridisation is fine like a mage gone full str gear, bear dex gear etc.
3. Str gears alrdy super charged :) bears should learn to utilize this.
I'd support dodge cap reduction from this point.
Bazinga!
03-04-2017, 12:52 AM
Sigh @ PvP suggestions.
Take 100 damage from the blaster if any, Leave birds alone from there out. Make 85 gear class specific, There's no reason a mage should be able to play as a pally and have a wand then have the crit and damage as pure int. It's not logical. Bears are fine the way they are, People fail to understand bears were made to be tank characters that don't get a lot of kills but yet take a lot of damage to kill. As the cap stands they do just that, Mages either need less crit/health or gear needs to be class specific, This would fix 85 pvp.
Duckypowerz
03-04-2017, 03:28 PM
Right now blaster has 147 more dmg than a recurve which should not be the case I suggest a 200-250 dmg reduction cause it is meant for range over dmg not both dmg and range completely making a recuve pointless to the game.
Dolloway
03-04-2017, 03:40 PM
The dmgs should be switched imo. The blaster should have the bow's dmg and the bow should have the blaster's dmg.
If you want range, you sacrifice dmg. If you want dmg and blind proc, you sacrifice range.
As it currently stands, the new Zaryk/Kyraz bows are useless in pvp because there are so many better options.
The analogy between death bow and blaster should be stopped, the purpose of CLASS SPECIFIC bow was not to compete at PvP in the first place. If we really need to tweak, the death bow should be tweaked not the blaster.
Blaster and bird class won't be viable if blaster damage is reduced at this point, other classes with blaster is weaker, dex bears always have been there but str gear IS BEST for bears, it just bears need to learn to cope with the latest teaks.
As for hybrids, it's all fine, I feeling good the tactics seeming to work, ONLY EXCEPT people using L80 wand & blaster with 85 str set, that must be prohibited NOT BY MAKING things class specific but by INCREASING base point requirement slightly.
Duckypowerz
03-04-2017, 11:07 PM
mixed gear should not be allowed so raising the points would fix that, and let ppl play with other sets which is a good accomadation over total class specific I guess. That being said if people were to start using strictly pally or pure gear for mage then darzac blaster still needs a nerf in dmg. It would make anyone with a blaster to strong just like at 80. Again blaster is for range not dmg the kyraz/zaryk (recurve bows) should have more dmg than a blaster because they have less range. Asking for the range with much more dmg ruins pvp by making one singular weapon stronger than it should be.
mixed gear should not be allowed so raising the points would fix that, and let ppl play with other sets which is a good accomadation over total class specific I guess. That being said if people were to start using strictly pally or pure gear for mage then darzac blaster still needs a nerf in dmg. It would make anyone with a blaster to strong just like at 80. Again blaster is for range not dmg the kyraz/zaryk (recurve bows) should have more dmg than a blaster because they have less range. Asking for the range with much more dmg ruins pvp by making one singular weapon stronger than it should be.
Dex mages weak now UNLIKE before blaster bear ain't strong either just another choice. So it's not true now that blaster makes everyone strong, it good for bird and that should be and there was one update that was focused on strengthenging gears to be better choice for preferred class, I'm happy it started to work.
That's narrowed analysis when you say blaster having an range weapon shouldn't do such damage because you have to take it as whole, it's viability with archer. That's where it's perfect for a weak range class.
As said death bow is not preferred for PvP but if it need to be it can be tweaked differently, like a better alternative of talon, having more armor. I said better because talon is not good one.
Bazinga!
03-05-2017, 10:55 AM
The way I see it, there are two options.
1. Make everything class specific so each class has a fixed role in the game.
2. Reduce stat requirements of end game items, increase skill cap. This will increase the diversity in classes by allowing dual specs and forcing people to sacrifice skill points in one skill to max the other. Right now there's one class that no other build would ever hope to counter. Increasing the diversity would hopefully give rise to an equal number of advantages and disadvantages for a particular build.
Both would work in my opinion. The first option would give defined roles to each class, which would certainly make CTF better. The second option would create some interesting FFAs. Both, however, would make the go system unfeasible. But I would say good riddance to that.
Duckypowerz
03-05-2017, 07:34 PM
Another reason the blaster should not be anywhere near the strength it has is because its not even part of the set...darzac blaster with say kyraz should not recive a set bonus just because ring armor and helm are giving it. To recive the set bonus you should be required to use a full set not just 2 parts and a ring and throw in a weapon of choice.
Congeniality
03-05-2017, 10:34 PM
Another reason the blaster should not be anywhere near the strength it has is because its not even part of the set...darzac blaster with say kyraz should not recive a set bonus just because ring armor and helm are giving it. To recive the set bonus you should be required to use a full set not just 2 parts and a ring and throw in a weapon of choice.
I would like a 3pc set bonus and a 4pc set bonus. Like have a different (better) buff if you use whole set vs just helm, armor, and ring.
Duckypowerz
03-05-2017, 11:33 PM
I agree this is a good idea congeniality because people want diversity and because blaster has to much dmg with set bonus I think that the set bonus should only be given if you use full sets such as kyraz helm armor bow ring or helm armor Talon wing ring. This not only would discurage the use of mixing gear it also would make blaster have less dmg so it is not way to strong.
Another reason the blaster should not be anywhere near the strength it has is because its not even part of the set...darzac blaster with say kyraz should not recive a set bonus just because ring armor and helm are giving it. To recive the set bonus you should be required to use a full set not just 2 parts and a ring and throw in a weapon of choice.
Balance matters ultimately, doesn't matter how it has been achieved specifically if the basic remained same for ex bears can tank, bird hugh dmg etc.
There has been lots of changes, if you follow that you would know, so pointing at one exact thing that's going against you, is not enough, you have to consider all.
None, even not a bear should have dodged 80% but it did for long time. Mages sitting on a pure int set was full privileged of both pally and pure but weakness of none, was this justified?
IMHO, You should go by it's merit, not by some set stats. I'm trying to say, you should talk that how any particular class with particular build facing problem against blaster class, and justify the reasons, if any.
Duckypowerz
03-06-2017, 12:09 AM
Balance matters ultimately, doesn't matter how it has been achieved specifically if the basic remained same for ex bears can tank, bird hugh dmg etc.
There has been lots of changes, if you follow that you would know, so pointing at one exact thing that's going against you, is not enough, you have to consider all.
None, even not a bear should have dodged 80% but it did for long time. Mages sitting on a pure int set was full privileged of both pally and pure but weakness of none, was this justified?
IMHO, You should go by it's merit, not by some set stats. I'm trying to say, you should talk that how any particular class with particular build facing problem against blaster class, and justify the reasons, if any.
Pure int Mages can hardly kill blasters from what I've seen versing them, any bear I've versed is easily killed by a blaster, foxs with any set just take combo from blaster, and someone mixing a blaster with str gear is pretty much unstoppable unless they have no clue what they are doing in pvp. And again I belive the set bonus should be given with a full set(including ring) not just helm armor ring to recive the bonus.
Duckypowerz
03-06-2017, 12:12 AM
Balance matters ultimately, doesn't matter how it has been achieved specifically if the basic remained same for ex bears can tank, bird hugh dmg etc.
There has been lots of changes, if you follow that you would know, so pointing at one exact thing that's going against you, is not enough, you have to consider all.
None, even not a bear should have dodged 80% but it did for long time. Mages sitting on a pure int set was full privileged of both pally and pure but weakness of none, was this justified?
IMHO, You should go by it's merit, not by some set stats. I'm trying to say, you should talk that how any particular class with particular build facing problem against blaster class, and justify the reasons, if any.
Pure int Mages can hardly kill blasters from what I've seen versing them, any bear I've versed is easily killed by a blaster, foxs with any set just take combo from blaster, and someone mixing a blaster with str gear is pretty much unstoppable unless they have no clue what they are doing in pvp. And again I belive the set bonus should be given with a full set(including ring) not just helm armor ring to recive the bonus.
Bazinga!
03-07-2017, 03:47 AM
Can we stop saying balance. There is no balance.. when one class consistently wins, other classes complain until one of the stats get changed. Then they keep winning and the other classes complain. People complain in the hopes of a change such that they always win, which is the definition of imbalance. All three classes cannot win simultaneously lmao. A balanced fight would be never ending.
Duckypowerz
03-07-2017, 04:04 PM
Can we stop saying balance. There is no balance.. when one class consistently wins, other classes complain until one of the stats get changed. Then they keep winning and the other classes complain. People complain in the hopes of a change such that they always win, which is the definition of imbalance. All three classes cannot win simultaneously lmao. A balanced fight would be never ending.
At least with some small changes we can get closer to being balanced than what we have now...
Bazinga!
03-07-2017, 10:05 PM
At least with some small changes we can get closer to being balanced than what we have now...
No it won't. One class gets changed the others start complaining. It is a never ending cycle. There will always be complaints making it seem like PvP is a failure. Nobody plays as a team and hence never unlocks the true purpose of their class. I'm starting to like the class specific idea. I don't like limits but limiting the gear that can be used will encourage team play at least.
No it won't. One class gets changed the others start complaining. It is a never ending cycle. There will always be complaints making it seem like PvP is a failure. Nobody plays as a team and hence never unlocks the true purpose of their class. I'm starting to like the class specific idea. I don't like limits but limiting the gear that can be used will encourage team play at least.
Balance IS possible unless ur referring to pin point balace, and complain doesn't imply a dis balance always, it must have some valid and solid reason behind.
Top of that, if classes ain't balanced more or less, a team play where 'every class has its purpose' won't be blanaced either, so balancing classes is a basic requirement.
Endgame is closed to balanced, other than a very few issues & biggest obstacle is currently the 85 str set + 80 wand/blaster which should be fixed asap.
Bazinga!
03-08-2017, 12:09 AM
Balance IS possible unless ur referring to pin point balace, and complain doesn't imply a dis balance always, it must have some valid and solid reason behind.
Top of that, if classes ain't balanced more or less, a team play where 'every class has its purpose' won't be blanaced either, so balancing classes is a basic requirement.
Endgame is closed to balanced, other than a very few issues & biggest obstacle is currently the 85 str set + 80 wand/blaster which should be fixed asap.
If complaints doesn't imply an imbalance, STS can just assume that everything is fine even though people are complaining.
If complaints doesn't imply an imbalance, STS can just assume that everything is fine even though people are complaining.
Why & how u missed the bolded line, that answer ur query.
Balance IS possible unless ur referring to pin point balace, and complain doesn't imply a dis balance always, it must have some valid and solid reason behind.
Bazinga!
03-08-2017, 11:02 AM
Why & how u missed the bolded line, that answer ur query.
A valid and solid reason varies from person to person.
As a random example, not taking any level into account - a bird complains that damage is too low because he cannot beat a bear, whereas the bear counters with the argument that they are meant for tanking. There's no obvious reason. As long as complaints keep coming, the impression that there is an imbalance will always be made, whether or not there is a solid reason behind it.
A valid and solid reason varies from person to person.
As a random example, not taking any level into account - a bird complains that damage is too low because he cannot beat a bear, whereas the bear counters with the argument that they are meant for tanking. There's no obvious reason. As long as complaints keep coming, the impression that there is an imbalance will always be made, whether or not there is a solid reason behind it.
"whether or not there is a solid reason behind it." people will complain, that means each complain doesnt have solid reason and logic behind it. That's what I said that complain doesn't ALWAYS refer a dis balance.
now, If a bird can't beat a bear, but if the bird knows how to beat a bear then actually there's a dis balance you can't deny and the bear's logic of tanking is not a VALID reason, tanking IS NOT EQUALS TO UN-KILLABLE. Now don't make me describe such small facts please, I think enough said :p
Bazinga!
03-08-2017, 12:01 PM
"whether or not there is a solid reason behind it." people will complain, that means each complain doesnt have solid reason and logic behind it. That's what I said that complain doesn't ALWAYS refer a dis balance.
now, If a bird can't beat a bear, but if the bird knows how to beat a bear then actually there's a dis balance you can't deny and the bear's logic of tanking is not a VALID reason, tanking IS NOT EQUALS TO UN-KILLABLE. Now don't make me describe such small facts please, I think enough said :p
How do you know whether the bird knows how to play or not?
How do you know whether the bird knows how to play or not?
That's where solid and valid reasons comes into play :)
A complain ain't enough.
Duckypowerz
03-08-2017, 07:45 PM
For me I play bird at endgame and I want to see it be more balanced i am actually bored of how ridiculously overpowered it is. On this subject useing blaster less and bow more makes it much more fair but I do use blaster for the sake that everyone has one which in turn is ruining pvp for other classes and bird vs bird pvp aswell. I still am strongly against the mixing of gear aswell (str +wand/blaster) but I feel this could be fixed by implementing a set bonus with full set + ring instead of just helm armor ring.
Bazinga!
03-08-2017, 10:41 PM
You can't just assume that someone knows how to play. Most complaints in this game are of the type I stated above.
Pure int Mages can hardly kill blasters from what I've seen versing them, any bear I've versed is easily killed by a blaster, foxs with any set just take combo from blaster, and someone mixing a blaster with str gear is pretty much unstoppable unless they have no clue what they are doing in pvp. And again I belive the set bonus should be given with a full set(including ring) not just helm armor ring to recive the bonus.
For me I play bird at endgame and I want to see it be more balanced i am actually bored of how ridiculously overpowered it is. On this subject useing blaster less and bow more makes it much more fair but I do use blaster for the sake that everyone has one which in turn is ruining pvp for other classes and bird vs bird pvp aswell. I still am strongly against the mixing of gear aswell (str +wand/blaster) but I feel this could be fixed by implementing a set bonus with full set + ring instead of just helm armor ring.
85+80 hybridisation is the only major problem for now. If anybody know that how to kill birds, he CAN kills birds with pure mage and bear classes, it's not op as you think, sometime WHEN U FACE A 85 STR + 80 BLASTER BIRD as pure int mage or pure bird, defenately you will have a hard time, same as 80wand str mage are op, in fact most op as of now.
That been said, 85+80 hybridisation is the magor problem as of now, other than that bear's class bound 2h weapon should get a bit more armor for effective tanking against mages after loosing dodge, and for foxes they have been always a class that is not scaled properly, either die quickly or kill quickly the pure classes blaster didn't make em squeezy in the first place.
I don't know when you pvp-ing, I see more other classes than the blaster birds on the arena. NERFING BLASTER FROM THIS POINT will make arena bird free just like it had been for long.
Dolloway
03-09-2017, 09:57 AM
Foxes seem decent now, but mostly because of the hybridization (str + Talon/blaster). The daggers are bad because they're too squishy and melee.
Congeniality
03-10-2017, 04:12 PM
Foxes seem decent now, but mostly because of the hybridization (str + Talon/blaster). The daggers are bad because they're too squishy and melee.
I go pure dex zaryk set and I have done fine, I have not tried this str build but I know for sure that pure dex is viable as well.
Dolloway
03-10-2017, 05:47 PM
I go pure dex zaryk set and I have done fine, I have not tried this str build but I know for sure that pure dex is viable as well.
Glad to see foxes doing well.
However, I would like to see certain changes made to fox skills. Particularly, I would like to see the unroot effect be carried over to Howl instead of Evasion, similar to how Avian Scream unroots for birds.