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slaveleia
10-09-2011, 05:59 PM
Ugh! This has been the hardest material to drop...and find of the crafting materials...no wonder it is expensive at the CS. I've farmed all day on a few occasions (not extreme sessions) but maybe get one. On average, maybe find one every other day. On my best day, I got 3...2 within 30 mins & later 1 in the evening when I was ready to quit. Lol.
I get mad sometimes when you host a map & someone who joins you gets red hot...the same person getting a steel & a prize pink. I feel like booting but I won't cause I know it says everyone has their own chances...just gets frustrating at times! I mean it's good that it's so hard to find materials cause crafted sets are more rare & valuable. This has been harder than grinding to lv 56 or 61...oh well, I'm gonna keep grinding...taking me forever to craft a demonic set.
Post your experiences or frustrations...I'd like to hear em. Hahaa

Cytokinesis
10-09-2011, 06:03 PM
LOL after like 2 runs i got one and sold it for 300k
EDIT: I REMEMBER U! I DID A FEW RUNS WITH U!

slaveleia
10-09-2011, 06:47 PM
Yeah I remember you too! I was looking at your interesting name & then you dropped a steel!! I was like...not again! that was lucky...grats

Moogerfooger
10-09-2011, 07:11 PM
Hang in there. I am in the middle of a horrifying decent pink-less (and steel-less) streak myself...last time this happened, after about three weeks I got three good ones in one day.

I'll jump in and run with you if I see your games...something has got to give sooner or later!

slaveleia
10-09-2011, 08:24 PM
Thanx Moogerfooger....I know what you mean. You can be in a drought for a long time & getting pissed but it can suddenly rain on you too. I've seen your demonic set on you...pretty damn sweet. I got keep going lol.

Palyna
10-10-2011, 09:58 PM
I didnt know actually blade steel worth so much lol, I sold someone in the group for 100k after it dropped on me then saw him selling for 300k at balefort lol! funny

slaveleia
10-10-2011, 11:12 PM
I hate Glyphic blade steel!!! Horrible day of farming...4 hrs & only found 2 para aramid leathers...also a cheap Nuri glyph cloth! The Zookeeper never drops anything I swear, ppl tell me he does.

LADYHADASSA
10-10-2011, 11:14 PM
Be glad you are getting them to drop.. I see a steel blade once in a blue moon just like helms... Farmed 70k exp... Saw three helms in 13 hours, 1 blade of steel... Be glad ya see em as you do! :)

Kelstrick
10-11-2011, 05:47 AM
Make sure to check out Evaruss's awesome Demonic Set Recipes and Materials Guide for using the Custom Hand Grip as a semi-replacement for Glyphic Steel. For me its reduces my need of steel by 8 pieces for the wand/bracer set.

Also, I noticed that last week steel was selling for 350K and as of last night it was down to 310K. Hopefully the "trend is your friend" and we continue to see falling prices as more and more players farm Nuri's.

Since you asked for experiences, overall my luck with good drops is bad, bad very bad, however, I do cheer everytime I see a piece of crafting material drop as either thats going to be sold which increases supply and drives down prices or is going to be used by the player which reduces his/her demand for that item and in turn drives down prices. Either way, given time, prices should continue to fall!

BTW, on the frustration side, I completely expect that the day I finish acquiring all the necessary materials to go Demonic, the Devs will then begin "Daily Craft Quests" at Nuri's. The loud sound you will hear will be my iPod being thrown through my window!

Good luck and I hope to see you at the Circus!

Treenire
10-11-2011, 06:04 AM
BTW, on the frustration side, I completely expect that the day I finish acquiring all the necessary materials to go Demonic, the Devs will then begin "Daily Craft Quests" at Nuri's. The loud sound you will hear will be my iPod being thrown through my window!

Good luck and I hope to see you at the Circus!

Sorry but this made me LOL!
But i know wot you mean about steel. I need 10 pieces and then ill have 2demonics... But getting them (other than buying) is like a never ending tunnel!

Ixillicus
10-11-2011, 07:16 AM
I guess it's their intention to make the items more rare so that fewer people have Demonic gear.

arischal
10-11-2011, 09:19 AM
Ugh! This has
been the hardest material to drop...and find of the crafting materials...no wonder it is expensive at the CS. I've farmed all day on a few occasions (not extreme sessions) but maybe get one. On average, maybe find one every other day. On my best day, I got 3...2 within 30 mins & later 1 in the evening when I was ready to quit. Lol.
I get mad sometimes when you host a map & someone who joins you gets red hot...the same person getting a steel & a prize pink. I feel like booting but I won't cause I know it says everyone has their own chances...just gets frustrating at times! I mean it's good that it's so hard to find materials cause crafted sets are more rare & valuable. This has been harder than grinding to lv 56 or 61...oh well, I'm gonna keep grinding...taking me forever to craft a demonic set.
Post your experiences or frustrations...I'd like to hear em. Hahaa

I did about 15-20 runs with you this morning and no steel. I hope steel drops for both of us. This is getting really annoying

saool
10-11-2011, 09:42 AM
I have been farming for steel for what seems like forever! Only got enough for robe. I'm also using big luck (no luck should be the real name) and elixers for better luck, and the guys running with me seem to be getting all my luck.

But I'm going to continue farming... For now. I did get 3 once, all three from mini boss in symphony btw.

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 11:21 AM
Thanx for the responses. I'm glad I'm not the only one pissed sometimes...it's always the guy next to you getting the steel I swear! This one bear got so lucky with me this morning at Nuris madness! Unbelievable....he got a Glyph staff of charmin for one drop..his second drop was Glyphic blade steel!?! Ugh!! :-/ he apologized/thked me so that was nice. Then the next run he got another para aramid something...,I ran away from him after that!

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy everything at the store since nothings dropping for me. Of course, accumulating gold isn't easy either! I didn't know you was struggling too Lady Hadassa. You feel better when you know you're not the only one. It's also because it's not just a couple to find, everybody needs like 20 or more steels! I saw Hunzzz listing one Glyphic steel for $270k? Man I wanted it but I was short on gold & some lucky buyer snatched it up. :-/. The prices went back up tho.

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 11:38 AM
@Kelstrick
I was wondering about that custom hand grip replacing steel?! I am still not understanding how that works. If you have those custom hand grips, how are they substituted? Is there a difference between sets when made that way? I would be looking to try that if it reduces my need for steel. :D

Treenire
10-11-2011, 01:36 PM
@Kelstrick
I was wondering about that custom hand grip replacing steel?! I am still not understanding how that works. If you have those custom hand grips, how are they substituted? Is there a difference between sets when made that way? I would be looking to try that if it reduces my need for steel. :D

Basically you can get the hand grip from dai,ys in sewers saving you from using glyphic steel to make it =]

Kelstrick
10-11-2011, 01:46 PM
@slaveleia, here is an example of the custom grip as a substitute, note the 4 steel difference on the staff set. (Sorry I'm a mage so this is what I follow...) I really recommend you check out Evaruss' guide for more details, but it appears the custom hand grip from the old Dr. Noxious daily quest in the Sewers works:

Demonic Glyph Staff Set
Total Required (If crafting "custom hand grip" from scratch): 30x Para Aramid Cloth Scrap, 19x Glyphic Blade Steel, 13x Glyphic Weapon Wood
Or
Total Required (If "custom hand grip" available): 30x Para Aramid Cloth Scrap, 15x Glyphic Blade Steel, 9x Glyphic Weapon Wood, 2x Custom Hand Grip

BTW, I think I just got your name, very cool!

EDIT: You are a ninja Treenire!
EDIT 2: One last thought, note the reduction in the need for Wood as well as Steel. Every little bit helps! Good luck and see you at the Circus soon!

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 04:31 PM
Thanks for getting back to me Kelstrick...I think I get the main idea of it but does the Nuris personal forger ask u for the hand grip instead of the Glyphic steel in the crafting menu? That's where I'm a little confused. I don't remember seeing that...only where u craft custom handgrip in components. If it works it'll be great cause I got a bunch of handgrips leftover from the sewers.
I saw Evaruss's thread, it is awesome...I refer to it all the time. Lol.

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 05:54 PM
Ooooh I was angry this morning with the drops! Saw 2 G steels drop to a bird & bear. I wasn't mad about the 2 but I didn't get anything. I am getting the odd thing to sell once & a while to make some gold. Now I feel a lil better that I saved up 300,000 gold & bought a steel. I only needed 1 steel I've been looking for 2-3 days to complete my second demonic item. I'm really happier that I have the cloth & hoody finished. Hopefully my luck changes lmao. I still get jealous when I see players running around with their full sets.

Phoenixking
10-11-2011, 06:06 PM
On my second run in nuri i got a steel on my fourth day i got a pink recipe amd my fifth day i got another steel and on my 7 day i got para

csb
10-11-2011, 06:20 PM
Last night I just logged in to play one run, and someone got a pink. So, i thought, just one more run, and someone else got a pink. I did 4 Nuri runs with different groups and someone got a pink in every run. I figured, this should be easy, it should be my turn soon. I played until 2:30 am and never saw another pink. Well, i was really tired at work and was falling asleep in a meeting. I stayed up late looking for drops, and never got anything.

slaveleia
10-11-2011, 07:39 PM
PhoenixKing sounds like you're having pretty good luck as long as it keeps coming steadily. Gives you hope.
I know how it is Csb....seems like it wouldn't be that hard but surprising how frustrating it can be! Thanx for telling your experience, nice to hear. It's easy to want to keep trying for hrs to get a pink lmao. Sometimes you get mad where you wanna punch or throw your phone I swear! I got to give credit to some hardcore farmers who go nonstop...you see them selling their stuff at the store.

slaveleia
10-12-2011, 05:28 AM
I know what you were explaining about the custom hand grips now...I saw them listed when you create the basic wands, staff, or bracer...it takes the place of the steel. Well that helps some anyway. Thx for the guidance.

Kelstrick
10-12-2011, 05:33 AM
@slaveleia, slightly off topic, but since you mentioned being jealous of full sets, I've got a funny story for you. So I end up running with 2 bears & 2 birds last night all decked out in their Demonic gear and then there is little old me in my poor man's load out. Anyhow, we're killing mobs and breaking things and I couldn't tell who was who on bears/birds (hey which one of these is my friend and which one joined randomly?) but I stood out on screen nice and easy to find and follow along. Hey, sometimes being different is a good thing!

BTW, it didn't last long, but I did see a steel for sale at 295,000 last night. As someone with a degree in finance seeing the "3 handle" broken gives me alot of hope for cheaper prices in the future. Hang in there and keep farming!

slaveleia
10-12-2011, 09:21 PM
Thanks for telling. It's true to be different makes you stand out instead of following the masses. I think the poor-mans sets are pretty cool, I would use them too. The stats are so close to the rare stuff. I like how you explained that here & other threads.
Ugh...had another bad day of farming! Saw FOUR glyphic steel drop on different maps, of course I didn't get any of them. :-/ must have remade Nuris Madness for 2 hrs. Thanx Nuri don't worry I don't need any steel. Lm@o. Or all I need is a nice pink drop & I could buy the steel at the CS. The prices have really dropped, I've seen a bunch of steel under 250k...almost 200! Wow. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy everything cause nothings falling for me. End rant

Moogerfooger
10-12-2011, 10:46 PM
Hey Slaveleia, I'll be playing my mage Brutalityz for a bit...if I see yr games I may pop in. I'm not so hot at mage, but not totally useless. Can maybe get some drops between us!

Kelstrick
10-13-2011, 05:48 AM
Slaveleia, good news I was able to create two Basic Glyph Staffs using the two Custom Hand Grips that I had farmed over the past couple of days on the old Dr. Noxious quest. Didn't have to do anything special at the forge, the recipe automatically came up 4 pieces of Glyphic Wood checked and 1 piece of Custom Hand Grip checked. Clicked buy/combine and presto 1 Basic Glyph Staff each, SWEET! Anyhow looks like our participation/doing our homework in the the forums will pay off in a reduction of the amount of Glyphic Wood and Glyphic Blade Steel required to go Demonic.

Don't be discouraged by not catching any steel. Remember every piece that drops is another piece that either someone is going to use or put up for sale. Either way, thats going to drive down prices. As an aside, so far my strategy has been to sell what few steel drops I've caught in hopes of buying back later at reduced prices. Its a gamble, but as a casual player I have to take some chances...

Thanks for the feedback that the prices are still falling. Should be an interesting weekend when the population of farmers grows with an increase of players. Hopefully we all get lucky and prices collapse!

Anyhow, I'm at Level 60 with 60K of xp on my elixir free grind to 61. My goal is to go Charmin' this weekend as reward for grinding over half way in the poor man's load out and make the final push to 61 over the next 3 or 4 weeks. Once I get to 61, I'll craft my Charmin' gear into Demonic. (I personally look at Demonic as "Level 61" gear in order to have a goal to drive for and to keep my desire to upgrade in check...)

Finally, I saw you hosting some runs last night but couldn't join b/c you were full. Hopefully we can kill some mobs, minis and bosses together in the future!

slaveleia
10-14-2011, 12:08 AM
Hey Moogerfooger was nice to see out there. Too bad I didn't get a bunch of dumb luck all the sudden, would've been cool. Hahaa. Thanx for your support, it helps. All you can do is keep going & not give up until it pays off.
I got a few things lately:
2 Nuris Glyph staff
Nuris glyph cloth
Imhotep eye of Charmin'
Glyph wing of Mimicry
Glyph battle sword of the Bigtop

slaveleia
10-14-2011, 12:23 AM
Hello Kelstrick
I think you're really gonna like the Charmin' set when you can get it together. I remember when it first came out everbody wanted it so bad, only a few players had it. It was mismatched with the pink cloth & purple hoody. Now it's the same for the demonic set but it's been such a struggle to try to acquire it. :-/
I had to smile when I saw your name as you bought one of my custom hand grips at the CS, that was funny! I decided to start selling those since I had a bunch leftover & maybe there's some demand for it since steel is so hard to get.
Yeah I hope to run into you ingame & maybe we could have some luck in finding some steel.
I still have to say I HATE Glyphic blade steel!!!!! Ugh frustrating ;-/
You're right tho, the more found the prices are falling. It was hovering around $200,000 today. I bought one for $215,000, now I'm broke again.

Kelstrick
10-14-2011, 05:22 AM
Slaveleia, got the Charmin' Staff set last night (finally broke down and bought the Hood) and really liking it alot. Will pick up the Wand/Bracer this weekend. BTW, I caught a lucky streak last night and in addition to some scraps, I got a steel. Since I already had Wood (so to speak) I figured I might as well craft a Basic Glyph Bracer. So imagine my surprise when I saw your name on the first page of Custom Hand Grips. Needless to say I made sure to purchase yours! Anyhow, just need a few pieces of cloth left and then I'll start buying up steel.

I hope your Custom Hand Grip sales pay off! Really good play on your part as I liquidated all my Sewer crafts in hopes that the junk pinks I caught early in Nuri's would grow in value when the Devs nerfed the drop rate. (Seemed like a good strategy but didn't play out like I hoped) Can't wait to see you in Demonic gear soon!

slaveleia
10-14-2011, 12:52 PM
It's a miracle! I dropped a G steel at my favorite map Nuris Madness. Probably the only map that rewards me sometimes. I like it because it's a quicker map but you don't get any kills or gold.
I agree with you breaking down & buying the hood cause Panto the Mime almost never drops anything pink! That's why helms/hoods prices have been way up there. The symphony map is really hard too. I don't see Gustav dropping much in the house of pain either.

Moogerfooger
10-14-2011, 12:54 PM
Sweet, glad you have gotten a few things! I have gotten a couple of things as well, although I have not been playing too much the last few days.

slaveleia
10-14-2011, 03:15 PM
Hey Mooger. It's always nice when you get at least a few items to drop. I think it's good to stop & take a break once in a while, then you comeback more eager to go after it again. It's debatable wether to keep farming/grinding hard when the drop rate is so low! I still can't stop cause I want to make my set. :-/

slaveleia
10-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Oh man I must have made or ran Nuris Madness map like 50-60 times with nothing but green trash! Some other Mage told me they had done it 25 times to with nothing. I was using reverse-psychology & yelled out no pinks! Can you believe it? I finally got a good drop...1 Glyphic blade steel (I still hate steel!!?!) and a pink recipe demonic staff. It feels so good when you get 2 things at once! Finally! Still poor tho, no bigtime drops to get me rich. At least made a little progress.

LADYHADASSA
10-15-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy everything at the store since nothings dropping for me. Of course, accumulating gold isn't easy either! I didn't know you was struggling too Lady Hadassa. You feel better when you know you're not the only one. It's also because it's not just a couple to find, everybody needs like 20 or more steels! I saw Hunzzz listing one Glyphic steel for $270k? Man I wanted it but I was short on gold & some lucky buyer snatched it up. :-/. The prices went back up tho.

Lol yep all i have is from farming :) still farming blades after 3 wks i got one today crazy! Lol lol and i am a farmer its the roll of the dice :) all in all think how long it can take to farm a full glyph set alone ! I have managed to lvl account number two to 61 still... BLADE short :0

Duped
10-16-2011, 01:08 AM
Hang in there, the prices have been going down steadily. I bought all mine for about 220k "ish", and I'm sure that the price will fall more, but I was ok with that price.

slaveleia
10-16-2011, 12:48 PM
Hey Lady Hadassa. Yeah I saw you yesterday at Nuris Madness. I was curious how far you were on your crafted demonic set. Oh man you are closer than I am, you must farm more than me! I get frustrated pretty easily. :-/ looks like you're just missing your bracer? Are you only 1 blade away from completion? Can't wait to be that close! I'm 1 blade away from making my third piece of the set. This has been a struggle for me, the Glyph set came together easier cause I got lucky on 2 xbows of Obedience basically bought my glyph set. Good luck out there...I need to get back farming asap

lightangelz
10-21-2011, 06:07 AM
i hope it drops steel makes me bored ugh!!

slaveleia
10-21-2011, 08:42 AM
Yeah it's hard Lightangelz, I swear it's frustrating! Keep going & don't give up, hang in there. I went like a week without dropping one, daaam. Just keep saving gold & you can buy em at around 200,000 plus at the store while waiting for them to drop.
The other day, I was in my second map & I got one luckily. I was shocked lmao. Then yesterday I got 2 for the day which hasn't happened in a long time.

slaveleia
10-21-2011, 12:25 PM
@Kelstrick Thanx so much for that steel. Unexpected but I appreciate the help I got from a few friends to get me thru this long quest. It's really hard to try to get everything by yourself, really helps when friends help out.
I saved enough gold 210,000 to buy one & plus the one you gave me, I'm ONE away lmao. Give me some dumb luck!! I'll return the favor for sure, I hope I start getting luckier. I stopped even wearing Big luck anymore...just gets me mad. Omg, I just missed a Xbow of Obedience yesterday?!$?! Killed me lol

slaveleia
10-21-2011, 02:10 PM
Well I'm finally complete!!!$! I was running Lions den but it wasn't happening. I went over to my fav map Nuris Madness & on the 2nd or 3rd pass I got a fricking Glyphic blade steel to drop! Finally! The gypsy Nuri has been good to me. :-)
My timeline
10/2 crafted Demonic Cloth (found steel @Lion Tamer)
10/11 crafted Demonic Hoody (bought steel @CS for $299,000 gold)
10/17 crafted Demonic Wand (found steel @Nuris Madness)
10/21 crafted Demonic Bracer (found steel @Nuris Madness plus Kelstrick gave me one Ty!)
Oooh it was a looong 19 days of grinding/farming to craft that set. I felt like it was never gonna happen. You were right MoogerFooger, your luck can turn around if you don't give up & keep at it. The last couple days & the week have been good...not fast but steady. Now I can join the rest with their flames on...some people got it so quick! Like in Sept!

Kelstrick
10-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Slaveleia, congrats on finally completing your Demonic set. I'm glad that I could help out in a small way. Can't wait to do some runs with you again soon! I know we'll be a mob clearing team and hopefully catch some good drops so I can knock out my set!

Looking foward to seeing you decked out in your gear!

Bunnyshoota
10-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Have you tried the second stage? It's the house one with strongman (cant think of name right now)
I got both mine in 30 minutes from the tiny and tinyer guys.

slaveleia
10-26-2011, 02:16 PM
Is that right? I know steel drops at many bosses & mini bosses...I've never got one from those twins in House of pain or Zookeeper in Lions den. I've been getting more from Nuri in Nuris madness than anywhere else.

Fallen_Chisk_Angels
10-28-2011, 12:34 AM
I hate Glyphic blade steel!!! Horrible day of farming...4 hrs & only found 2 para aramid leathers...also a cheap Nuri glyph cloth! The Zookeeper never drops anything I swear, ppl tell me he does.
im with yah, zookeeper only droped me a dumb wep lol

casimir55
10-30-2011, 09:09 PM
Where is the best place to farm steel at guys.

slaveleia
10-30-2011, 09:48 PM
For me, it was Nuris Madness...I got many there. Seems like I was lucky there the most. The Lions den was another map that dropped often except not for me! :-/

Eearay
01-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Plz try mini dongeon I have gotten so many glyphic blade steel there. It drops. Plz try it is worth the 3 plat

TechniShock
01-09-2014, 08:07 PM
necro'd :D

Patene
01-24-2014, 03:50 PM
Hmmm farm paid dungeon...i got 3 drops in like 6 runs this morning

quantionus
01-24-2014, 04:53 PM
its not about the steel doe i farmed a few hours today and got smouldering :D easy 10 k yay

Bonthan
01-25-2014, 05:36 PM
There's this elixer.....it rhymes with sassy pooter

KevinDotson
01-25-2014, 11:08 PM
Plat dungeon with no combo elixir and no big luck vanity...know someone who had steel dropping like flies doing that...combo and vanity causes reroll steel into something useless is the way it was explained to me

Sakshat Sinha
01-25-2014, 11:41 PM
You wanna know what happens to me. Ok so at around 6:50 is when i get db. And what i do is i pray for a combo to the pl gods. I tell them that if you give a combo elix i will do good in my studies and bring honor to my family. Ok, so i turn on pl and what do you know I Get. A Combo! Whoohoo. So i start farming. Slayer,ff,feast,nuris etc. ok,alls well in the first few rounds. But then you dont get anything. Im wondering why is this happening to me. I have big luck and combo maybe i dont have enough luck so i buy 7k combo. Still nothing ? Then i buy trasher, and suddenly theres a triple drop at ff, but guess who was left out of this meraculos event. Me. With trasher, combo, and big luk.... Im seriously thinking i have dine something wrong with my karma.

But yea. Story of my life ^^

Bonthan
01-26-2014, 02:31 AM
There's this elixer.....it rhymes with sassy pooter

And it can seperate the rich from poor

Hardcorexd
03-26-2014, 07:48 AM
LOLOLOLOL i pretty much ive ran before about 50+or- and never gets a glyph(but yeah... trashy ones)glyphic steels nothing lol.

Tendirin
04-04-2014, 07:41 PM
Ooooh I was angry this morning with the drops! Saw 2 G steels drop to a bird & bear. I wasn't mad about the 2 but I didn't get anything. I am getting the odd thing to sell once & a while to make some gold. Now I feel a lil better that I saved up 300,000 gold & bought a steel. I only needed 1 steel I've been looking for 2-3 days to complete my second demonic item. I'm really happier that I have the cloth & hoody finished. Hopefully my luck changes lmao. I still get jealous when I see players running around with their full sets. but yeah sometimes man

Kingzila
07-18-2016, 08:21 PM
Make sure to check out Evaruss's awesome Demonic Set Recipes and Materials Guide for using the Custom Hand Grip as a semi-replacement for Glyphic Steel. For me its reduces my need of steel by 8 pieces for the wand/bracer set.

Also, I noticed that last week steel was selling for 350K and as of last night it was down to 310K. Hopefully the "trend is your friend" and we continue to see falling prices as more and more players farm Nuri's.

Since you asked for experiences, overall my luck with good drops is bad, bad very bad, however, I do cheer everytime I see a piece of crafting material drop as either thats going to be sold which increases supply and drives down prices or is going to be used by the player which reduces his/her demand for that item and in turn drives down prices. Either way, given time, prices should continue to fall!

BTW, on the frustration side, I completely expect that the day I finish acquiring all the necessary materials to go Demonic, the Devs will then begin "Daily Craft Quests" at Nuri's. The loud sound you will hear will be my iPod being thrown through my window!

Good luck and I hope to see you at the Circus!

Steel is hard to farm? News to me when I'm selling em by the stacks for 250k each:/ now if only sts would have a plat sale I'd by farming even more (WINK WINK STS DEVS WINK WINK)