Dodge

[Mymysticalmage]

Im sure im not the only one who experiences this but dodge seems really 1 sided sometimes. Im not asking for a dodge nerf but a balance. For example. Ill play a game and dodge will be fair. But if i play another game sometime dodge seems (broken) ill have no dodge and the person im fighting seems to have all the dodge in the world. Resulting in the person killing me. Over and over. It just isnt balanced. Not that pvp at 85 is balanced anyways. But still. Its really annoying. Please fix this cinco.

[Dolloway]

Yeah, when I'm fighting with my bird against other birds, the fights depend on who dodges more. You can basically shoot any combo and have the same success rate.

But I feel as if birds and int mages didn't have dodge, they would die instantly because the armor/health isn't high enough. Whenever my bird doesn't dodge, I die in two hits to other birds because of the excessive dmg. We also have to keep in mind that any impact on dodge may impact PVE greatly. The dodge is what is keeping a lot of people alive in PVE for greater periods of time, not so much the armor since it has a cap.

[Mymysticalmage]

Yeah, when I'm fighting with my bird against other birds, the fights depend on who dodges more. You can basically shoot any combo and have the same success rate.

But I feel as if birds and int mages didn't have dodge, they would die instantly because the armor/health isn't high enough. Whenever my bird doesn't dodge, I die in two hits to other birds because of the excessive dmg. We also have to keep in mind that any impact on dodge may impact PVE greatly. The dodge is what is keeping a lot of people alive in PVE for greater periods of time, not so much the armor since it has a cap.

I agree. Its definitley one sided sometimes. Mage vs mage, or mage vs bird. Vice versa. Something definitley need to change. Earlier i was fighting int vs int and i won the first game by a good margin. Next game i had 0 dodge. In fact my dodge was so (broken) that i was getting nuked with buffs when the other player had no buffs.

[Congeniality]

Yeah, when I'm fighting with my bird against other birds, the fights depend on who dodges more. You can basically shoot any combo and have the same success rate.

But I feel as if birds and int mages didn't have dodge, they would die instantly because the armor/health isn't high enough. Whenever my bird doesn't dodge, I die in two hits to other birds because of the excessive dmg. We also have to keep in mind that any impact on dodge may impact PVE greatly. The dodge is what is keeping a lot of people alive in PVE for greater periods of time, not so much the armor since it has a cap.

I feel like talon vs talon is ok from what I see. I'm no expert, do you think a blaster nerf so fights are longer would help?

[XghostzX]

This is why I avoid 1v1s. It's incredible how some of these players will boast about the number of 1v1s they've won, and it's all because of dodge.

Playing FFA eliminates this problem. If I am able to work efficiently with my teammates, dodge rarely prevails.

My point – stick to FFA!

[Blyzzor]

Pvp is still too much about 1v1s and it'll never changed. Family and convenant kids team u and wont FFA because "food" and, well in my case, I 1v3 and they keep killing me over and over spamming trash noob food newgen etc while the 2 sitting players are asking for ffa. But ofc that wont happen because they would rather team someone and get those precious free kills. For most pvp is still about 1v1s and I don't think it'll change because I don't think the community will ever change, internet ppl will remain as internet ppl, only thing you could do is maybe add something significant like a reward for playing ctf or whatever and encourage ppl to play it. If this isn't going to happen then I really do suggest balancing the classes and builds, and I don't think it would hurt ctf either. Endgame pvp 1v1 wise is quite unbalanced and bear is pretty bad in ffas too.

I disagree with the bird statement that bird fights are more about dodge than skill. Ive gotten about 5000 legit kills last 3-4 month spamming only bird getting better every day, and dodge is an annoying factor yes but most of the time the better bird wins quite clearly with the right combo and range, most birds are not good enough for this to really matter. I use kyraz because of rushing, not sure how zaryk is though. I think bird is fine and isn't really overpowered as people say it is. On the other hand I think other classes need buffs. I think talon mage is stupid overpowered and dominates 1v1s completely, ffas not as much but is very strong there too. I'm not sure what should be done about that, maybe straight nerf talon and wing armor because no other class uses those two items anyways, and buff int sets armor. Paladin I think is pretty balanced actually, it seems really okay and fox as well if you know how to use it, fox viable with blaster which isnt the healthiest way to have the class work though.

Bears need 20% hit and 50-100 dmg on 1h sword and a little armor on 2h sword. Bear is a trash class, please fix.

[Dolloway]

I feel like talon vs talon is ok from what I see. I'm no expert, do you think a blaster nerf so fights are longer would help?

Well, talon has less dmg but 8-9 more dodge than blaster. So when dodge plays little role in the fight, I'd say it's more skillful because it takes more dmg/skills to kill your opponent and you can't get away nearly as much with random combos like you can in blaster fights. When dodge does play a role in the fight and either you or your opponent misses a crucial skill like root(s), the one who dodges most likely wins the fight. If I had to name what a properly balanced talon set looks like, I'd probably go with the sentinel talon set. Decent/Moderate dmg with moderate dodge.

As for blasters, I think that the problem is the combination of both excessive dmg and dodge which makes fights less skillful. We have never had this much dodge on bow sets because they were not made for this much dodge. They are supposed to allow users to be dmg dealers that have low defense, which includes armor and dodge. My ideal bow set would have between 7-15 dodge, with the main dodge coming from buffs which in turn would make buffs that much more valuable. Right now, with the high dodge, evasion is much less valuable than it was before especially if it is true that there is a dodge cap around the 40-60 range.

[Waug]

It's kinda funny that how people question blaster bird fight blaster bird vs blaster bird, other than the fact that dodge should be lowered and sometime dodge is ridiculously high like 6+ dodge in a series. Bow bird vs bow bird fight hardly was NEVER better than this, IN FACT now birds need to root and a few hits to kill another bow birds which was even not the case most of the time in the past, where birds could actually kill other birds WITHOUT ROOT & spamming some arrow skills, I mean anybody can do but then the person who do root gonna have significant advantage.

2> Due to dodge cap, it's not true that birds dodging pretty high compared to previous few cap, you can do the math easily the only problem is random high dodges, I'm in favour of REDUCING DODGE CAP further, it's annoying.

As opposite to popular belief BLASTER NO MORE HAS exceptionally high damage if you compare that with the armor and overall damage of other weapons, it may look like it will prolong the blaster to blaster fight, which is true BUT THEN BLASTER TO other set fight will get disbalanced and at some cases it will be impossible to kill other specific set with specific class.

IMO there's scope to modify 2h class bounded weapons to compete with rest or MAKE EVERYTHING CLASS BOUNDED and then slightly boost some items/sets eg into 2h staff etc.

[XghostzX]

What I used to love about PL PvP (particularly with mage) was that it was ALL about the order in which you executed your skills (nobody uses the term "combo" anymore). There is an element of skill that is still required in PvP –> that's being able to master your 12m range and to time your skills "faster" than the opposing player. Ultimately, it still comes down to dodge, but no matter what stats are blown out of proportion, there will always be an element of skill that persists.

Back to my first comment on combos, though. I much prefer the element of skill that requires you to change up your combo as opposed to the current "let me be the first to land a skill on the other player." What I love about this type of strategy is that there are plethora of different combos that work in different situations (there is no one "best" combo to execute). With the system now, however, this quick first-hit element of strategy offers no sense of variation (it lacks that authentic, dynamic touch to the PvP).

Let's just go back to the 56 cap and call it a day.

[Waug]

Play as talon mage, GHOST, you'll achieve all the things, you're looking for in your post. Bow mages are squezzy as always and not use full 'combo' or variety combo, comes down to range play, though bow mages have advantage of same dodge, making em less squeezy than previous caps.

Whatever, mage with dex set is just exploitation, and I think it's time to make everything class bounded and then make some modifications :)



Pvp is still too much about 1v1s and it'll never changed. Family and convenant kids team u and wont FFA because "food" and, well in my case, I 1v3 and they keep killing me over and over spamming trash noob food newgen etc while the 2 sitting players are asking for ffa. But ofc that wont happen because they would rather team someone and get those precious free kills. For most pvp is still about 1v1s and I don't think it'll change because I don't think the community will ever change, internet ppl will remain as internet ppl ....

Family, covenant, apex yaya how to farm em vids r live :p

EDIT : and hfh, not even a PvP guild with some paper mages :)

[Dolloway]

Whatever, mage with dex set is just exploitation, and I think it's time to make everything class bounded and then make some modifications :)

I'd rather make everything as balanced as possible and have int bears and birds be an actual viable class type.

[Mymysticalmage]

It's kinda funny that how people question blaster bird fight blaster bird vs blaster bird, other than the fact that dodge should be lowered and sometime dodge is ridiculously high like 6+ dodge in a series. Bow bird vs bow bird fight hardly was NEVER better than this, IN FACT now birds need to root and a few hits to kill another bow birds which was even not the case most of the time in the past, where birds could actually kill other birds WITHOUT ROOT & spamming some arrow skills, I mean anybody can do but then the person who do root gonna have significant advantage.

2> Due to dodge cap, it's not true that birds dodging pretty high compared to previous few cap, you can do the math easily the only problem is random high dodges, I'm in favour of REDUCING DODGE CAP further, it's annoying.

As opposite to popular belief BLASTER NO MORE HAS exceptionally high damage if you compare that with the armor and overall damage of other weapons, it may look like it will prolong the blaster to blaster fight, which is true BUT THEN BLASTER TO other set fight will get disbalanced and at some cases it will be impossible to kill other specific set with specific class.

IMO there's scope to modify 2h class bounded weapons to compete with rest or MAKE EVERYTHING CLASS BOUNDED and then slightly boost some items/sets eg into 2h staff etc.

Make everything class bound so if a set is (broken) it stays broken. The fact that you still cry mage is op is amusing. Has your class been nerfed like mage has been nerfed? I didnt think so.

[Waug]

Make everything class bound so if a set is (broken) it stays broken. The fact that you still cry mage is op is amusing. Has your class been nerfed like mage has been nerfed? I didnt think so.

LOL. What's 'your class' in open game where you can choose any class to play, try to be broader open minded rather than narrow minded thinking and definitive approach to one specific class and for the rest.

When somebody says - "Has your class been nerfed like mage has been nerfed? I didnt think so"

That just shows that there's serious lack of knowledge/ understanding of PL's balance history till date, I'd not call him newgen [would be proper justification] but someone would do that who describe a discussion post as 'cry' for the SOLID REASONS THAT -

1> It's not the mage class rather the INT items has been nerfed along with the stat attributes eg into, dex, str

2> If ANY CLASS was highly nerfed was the class bird in the GREAT nerf of 2013 in the phoenix bow era.

So both the aspects of the statement is actually wrong and opposite.

[XghostzX]

Play as talon mage, GHOST, you'll achieve all the things, you're looking for in your post. Bow mages are squezzy as always and not use full 'combo' or variety combo, comes down to range play, though bow mages have advantage of same dodge, making em less squeezy than previous caps.

Whatever, mage with dex set is just exploitation, and I think it's time to make everything class bounded and then make some modifications :)




Family, covenant, apex yaya how to farm em vids r live :p

EDIT : and hfh, not even a PvP guild with some paper mages :)

"Play as a talon mage" ... once again, complete and utter nonsense.

[Congeniality]

"Play as a talon mage" ... once again, complete and utter nonsense.

Oh, you're upset with the state of the game? You want there to be more skill involved? Play talon mage! Where skill and combos are blown out the window while you fumble-spam your fingers to victory.

[XghostzX]

Oh, you're upset with the state of the game? You want there to be more skill involved? Play talon mage! Where skill and combos are blown out the window while you fumble-spam your fingers to victory.

Hi Walie <3

[Mymysticalmage]

Oh, you're upset with the state of the game? You want there to be more skill involved? Play talon mage! Where skill and combos are blown out the window while you fumble-spam your fingers to victory.

You forgot to mention how bird can nuke talon mage in 3-5 skills instantly. But thats not op. Not at all.

[Mymysticalmage]

Play as talon mage, GHOST, you'll achieve all the things, you're looking for in your post. Bow mages are squezzy as always and not use full 'combo' or variety combo, comes down to range play, though bow mages have advantage of same dodge, making em less squeezy than previous caps.

Whatever, mage with dex set is just exploitation, and I think it's time to make everything class bounded and then make some modifications :)




Family, covenant, apex yaya how to farm em vids r live :p

EDIT : and hfh, not even a PvP guild with some paper mages :)

*gets farmed by a PvE guild then boots cause mad*

[Waug]

*gets farmed by a PvE guild then boots cause mad*

LOL, True, I don't have really much to do fighting a pve guild with all 3 approaching to me even though your experience to me is -


You forgot to mention how bird can nuke talon mage in 3-5 skills instantly. But thats not op. Not at all.

Cause there're pretty much negligible birds who can do that, at least I didn't see anyone else, I don't watch fights much in arena anyway but having top most knowledge of birds capabilities possible, I've clear cut understanding of ones(bird) capability /limit weak and plus points :p

Whatever as you don't utilize the opportunity to learn int mage I'd say this time is perfect for learning bird then you would probably learn is it 3 or 5 kills or something else :)



"Play as a talon mage" ... once again, complete and utter nonsense.
The things u mentioned in ur post fits the play style of blaster mage, NEVER EVER bow mage was something different than this, it's as clear as water if you fight with bow you're play style can't be like 4pc set fight. As simple as that there's no non-sense in it.

[Mymysticalmage]

LOL, True, I don't have really much to do fighting a pve guild with all 3 approaching to me even though your experience to me is -



Cause there're pretty much negligible birds who can do that, at least I didn't see anyone else, I don't watch fights much in arena anyway but having top most knowledge of birds capabilities possible, I've clear cut understanding of ones(bird) capability /limit weak and plus points :p

Whatever as you don't utilize the opportunity to learn int mage I'd say this time is perfect for learning bird then you would probably learn is it 3 or 5 kills or something else :)



The things u mentioned in ur post fits the play style of blaster mage, NEVER EVER bow mage was something different than this, it's as clear as water if you fight with bow you're play style can't be like 4pc set fight. As simple as that there's no non-sense in it.

Lol. You boot my int mage everytime we in a game. But thats none of my buisness.

[Cinco]

Here's a haiku:

Tha dodge? I dunno...
PVP ranges must go
Level up you guys!

[XghostzX]

Waug, I'm not denying that the strategy I described pertains more to a bow mage than a talon mage. But the point still stands. Playing talon mage would only put me at a complete disadvantage given the substantial decrease in damage. Even as a talon mage it's useless to figure out the right combo because dodge prevails in PL. It's still about spamming skills and hoping they successfully land.

[Mymysticalmage]

Here's a haiku:

Tha dodge? I dunno...
PVP ranges must go
Level up you guys!

Im not asking for a dodge nerf. Just asking if you could fix it. If you know what i mean.

[Dolloway]

Here's a haiku:

Tha dodge? I dunno...
PVP ranges must go
Level up you guys!

Here's the pvp balance haiku:

Pvp balance?
Surely that's not a challenge
Ok'tal to Sewers!

[KingCat]

Here's a haiku:

Tha dodge? I dunno...
PVP ranges must go
Level up you guys!

I'll make it easy for you. Just raise a new cap and balance everything out.

[Waug]

Im not asking for a dodge nerf. Just asking if you could fix it. If you know what i mean.
I'LL EXPLAIN THIS IN VERY SIMPLE way that why both things kinda not possible together and dodge scenario to everyone who has difficulty understanding it and for ur other post, I don't interfere in dreams, so gl in that.


Here's the dodge explanation -
There's no way to reduce dodge without actually lowering it because of it's mechanism and this is what in pl's core mechanism since beginning. You don't dodge exactly 30% if you have dodge 30 in a fight but you can dodge 30% sometime, here's what happen -

Let's say someone has dodge 30. Now for any particular single hit it's like picking a folded card from a pot and in that pot there's 10 cards, 3 cards have - yes dodge, rest 7 cards are no- don't dodge, so you pick a card with 30% yes probability of dodging but here's the tricky part, picking a card is always a probability chance, so you can get yes- dodge cards sometime in a series sometime even less than 3 times per 10 picks, mark a point here, we always pick card from a full pot containimg 7:3 no- yes cards. To make it more complex or indeapth each and ever time before a hit take place the dodge may have different probability chance depending upon factors like dodge de buff and other factors.

Now mathamatically saying if you wanna know the exact ratio, you have to pick cards infinite number of times or just say huge no of times practically to get close to the exact ratio. Hopefully someday you'll learn this probability math from text books, whatever.

So you now got that without going out of the box and changing pl's core mechanism of dodge, it's not possible to do that without reducing the dodge cap itself. I FAVOUR A DODGE CAP REDUCTION to close to the level where we started after dodge apocalypse.

[Congeniality]

Hi Walie <3

Hi <3 :D :O :] #11chars

[Jyuu1205]

Lol I don't see so many problems about playing mage, except that the blasters are pretty broken.