Deeevs. Pls Remove or Significantly Reduce the auction fees to 0.5%-1% & 50k-100k Max

[voidPtr]

Pleeeaaaaaaaaaase :grumpy: :peaceful: :ambivalence:
I have suggested (many) different things, but This is the One thing that i Really want to happen.
(i just lost close to 1.5m from Only One Single item, on fees. and this is a Big percentage of my gold, i don't have tens of millions in gold right now. this makes me loathe(sry about the word but it's true) the game, that i otherwise like, and it happens ever so often.)
I know that auction fee is some "gold sink", and that different gold sinks are made so that "new gold" can be produced in maps, but the problem is, that 5% are far too much, at least for me, so the result is that i just list Very few of the items that i have for sell, cause i'm afraid of too big loss, if many things are not sold.
I saw Cinco in chat using economy terminology i'm not familiar with, so may be he knows it, and I Don't know economy. But even without knowing economy - I think it's obvious that market will be much more full of items, without fees (or with much smaller fees). If the fees are reduced 10 times - i personally may list even 20 times more items than now, so the gold terminated by my listings may even increase - but "i will be ok" :) , because i'll make more deals. (I will rely on the Quantity of deals(possible to sell cheaper), and not to hope to sell some individual items.). Also, when the market is more full of items, it may make greater opportunities for the buyers. And with easier "item relistings", the prices will go faster in the direction of their market price - if someone undercuts a trader then he may be ok with lowering his price too (he can also reduce his price).

Also, another idea - please add an option to list an item for "a lot longer", i mean, A LOT longer - like month, or 3 months, or may be even more. The fee may be greater with longer listings, But really, your item may be such (not often bought), that you're expecting to find a possible buyer for months, and not for hours or 1-2 days. And you may have no problem to wait, with this particular item.

People use forum when they don't wanna pay fees, but forum threads receive 50-200 views, and probably most of them are from same ppl checking multiple times, and also probably many of them are from re-sellers just checking for the possibility to resell (i do so and check threads often) - so probably the possible buyers on a thread are may be 10-30. And i Think there are more than 10-30 ppl, in game. Especially if the period is longer.
Also, i don't wanna deal with forum. i don't wanna talk/convince/negotiate. i just wanna list.
Also, a lot of items i have for sale are "not very sought", below 100-200k - and there are not many buyers and interest for these, in forum.
And also, By FAR The Biggest deals are made without any fees(which is Good and "how it should be", i don't want any fees to be added to "char to char"(forum) trades), but the fee in auction is not fair for the "strictly auction traders", looks they "pay the bills" for the tradings in AL.

thx for reading. please do something about auction, devs, i hope i'm asking "nice enough" :)

[Alwarez]

NOPE. It will only promote merching, decreasing amount of people who run maps. It's already impossoble to run full mauso with pugs. And without this gold sink all the prices will fly even higher, doubt you'd like that

[runagain]

Duh, what would u expect.. u think ppl will buy ur Greed pendant for 8.5m? Lol.. ofc it expires, with a normal belt u can hit the same amount of gold loot such as the greed set bonus gives... Told u it's not worth 7.5-8.5m...


#KarmaIsA.....(the last word u can fill in urself)

[Kenzou]

Another -1.

[Chocolaty]

-1
/konastolemycake

[Eagle Eye229]

I tend not to put something in auction unless i know the price or there is(or had been) competition . rest is history.

Be nice for Op's features but would not work

Sorry for your loss, just lesson learned :o

Thank you all :)

[voidPtr]

"would decreasing amount of people who run maps" - you sure about that?
"Told u it's not worth" - YOU think so. and even if YOU right and I'M wrong with my judgement, then i shouldn't lose anything. I should just Not sell and make No deal, nomatter How Long i'm Waiting.
"-1" - rational or sane reason ?
5% only hinders auction trades. any intelligent reason trading to be hindered? and only one part of trading (in which all ppl can see your listings, not only traders), not the other? you prefer "not all" players to see "bigger" listings, only forum traders(Far Fewer ppl) to see them?
tradings are bad for the game? then why forum trades exists? tradings are item interchange; and are interconnected with the economy of the game. why item interchange should be hindered, in you opinion?

[runagain]

"would decreasing amount of people who run maps" - you sure about that?
"Told u it's not worth" - YOU think so. and even if YOU right and I'M wrong with my judgement, then i shouldn't lose anything. I should just Not sell and make No deal, nomatter How Long i'm Waiting.
"-1" - rational or sane reason ?
5% only hinders auction trades. any intelligent reason trading to be hindered? and only one part of trading (in which all ppl can see your listings, not only traders), not the other? you prefer "not all" players to see "bigger" listings, only forum traders(Far Fewer ppl) to see them?
tradings are bad for the game? then why forum trades exists? tradings are item interchange; and are interconnected with the economy of the game. why item interchange should be hindered, in you opinion?
No man, u shouldn't try to infect the prices by listing ur amulet for 8.5m.. like ppl would buy an as good as useless Greed set -.-"

And yes it will infect the prices badly.. also many joke listers Will show up, like they list Deary for 99.999.999g.. such things happened in the past already (at test server but yolo xD)


... And try to use less CAPS cuz it looks like ur pretty butthurt and mad asf =)

[Azemeazed]

There must be some kind of penalty for players who want to overprice items. If not gold than time penalty, for example if you list something in cs than you cant list that same item again for 3 days. If no penalty what would stop player listing something for 8m and real value is 1m and than another one comes list for 7,999,999 than previous one cancle sale and lists for 7,999,998 and so on and so on. Someone already said it would encourage players to camp even more in town...
I think gold penalty is good enough already cosuse gold loss and income are balanced now (i think).

Just dont list items you are not sure gonna sell, 3 days lifetime is already enough and price for 12h and 3days is almost same.

[voidPtr]

if YOU think that the value of some item is 1m, and some seller list this same item for 8m, and after that some buyer actually Buys this particular item - this means that Your judgement is wrong and that this item is not overpriced (since a buyer exists); and if noone buys this 8m item - this means that the Seller's judgement is wrong and the penalty is the time wasted; and if the seller lists the item for long time, lets say three months and noone buys it - then seller's penalty is three months wasted on waiting. This is how forum works, why auction should be different? Auction and forum are both same tradings, only difference is that auction listings can be seen from ingame (not forum) players. Why auction and forum trades should be different? Both are "item interchange". Just "trade forum" player base is much smaller.

And traders undercutting with 1 gold :) ? 8m , 7,999,999 , 7,999,998 ... - this is a very "Not smart" thing a trader to do (, to say the least) - i will never lose my time undercutting thousand times, it will take me a whole day(s). Very soon (after very few relistings) i would list for MY lowest price and that's it (i will not go lower). MOREOVER, when i buy as a buyer, and see something undercut with Very Little (1 gold,1k,5k or may be even more with very expensive items), then i NEVER buy from the undercutter and ALWAYS buy the higher one, because both items Are actually the Same price, And also i think it's Joke someone in practice to be telling me: "hey, i'm selling 1 gold less(or 1k less), buy from me".

[runagain]

Go list ur pendant another 10times, waste 5m on listing. Try to infect the prices to list it extremely high, it's Just karma =). None offers 8m for a pendant like that.. it's max 3-4m.. it's the same with those Molts, ppl list high (2m) and try to sell it for 800k in towns tho the actual value is not more than 180k.. basically it's Just scamming isn't it?

Tho the comment u wrote it looks like ur pretty mad.. and pls.. less CAPS it's quite annoying

PS: this isn't a hate comment, Just my oppinion about those kind of players!. =)

[voidPtr]

<double post> because of the mod bot

[voidPtr]

runagain, you comment two times, and two times talk ... things that are "not right" and not on the thread's point. i tried to avoid telling you (, cause it Principally doesn't matter for This thread, if you are right or wrong, for this particular amu), but now i'll have to inform you.
This is market. In market prices, it doesn't matter what YOU think. The market price of an item the price for which there are buyer(s). A market.
Since you insist, i'll tell you for this "greed amu" - After you told me your ... "estimations" :) , and a little more then a week ago (in saturday), not one but TWO (i repeat, TWO) greed amus were sold in auction, BOTH for 7.5m (and one of them was my dex greed amu (mine sold actually 7.7), the other one stayed in auction for not many hours also). So I was Right with my "market price judgement" back then, and you were Wrong (which i Didn't told you in my previous posts). BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO'S ESTIMATION IS RIGHT OR WRONG. Estimations can ALWAYS be wrong. Noone should be punished for "wrong estimation". 2 was sold for this price, third not - so it probably needs More Time. But one particular "amu example" DOESN'T MATTER. EVEN if you Were Right Initially with your estimation - the problem stays the same:
My question is in principle: Why there should be difference between auction and forum trades(both are just item exchanges)? What you're telling about that?

[runagain]

My question is in principle: Why there should be difference between auction and forum trades(both are just item exchanges)? What you're telling about that?

Auc is 85% of the Times overpriced, as u can see (if not ur probs blind or need a pair of glasses) Traders market is always lower than Auc, compare it with Camp and other towns (Traders Market). Tho stop typing with those CAPS it's quite annoying, and it hurts me pretty badly :( that's not the thought behind it no? Anyway.. if u compare auc with Traders Market, Just gg urself.

Anyway thanks for the entertainment, you gave me smth to do during my school day =)

[PatD]

Big -1 to this idea!!, there is a reason for that, imagine all the irrelevant things that will flood the auction!!! the price u pay for putting something in auction is to avoid that people put anything at any price!!

[harie]

-11 disagree with this,the fees are just fine to me.

Have a good day :)

[Fredystern]

Remove? Then you'll see everything on auction.... All items price will become lower and lower cuz people would out their items in auc with 1g different than others...
-1

[Snoobcat]

-1 to this
Lowering auction fees will result in more troll price, if some hoarder consistently list 5 nekros for 10m with little to no penalties other ppl will eventually follow in the madman footsteps, may not have any effect in the short run, but in the long run the buyer will eventually gave in since they cant get it otherwise (raising nekro price will also increase fossil and vial price).

If anything, sts should increase auction fees as a gold sink -_-

[Kakashis]

Yeah, I do not support this either. The auction was designed to be a gold sink and in order to get things to sell, players who list try to go for a price to risk ratio they believe is worth it. They ultimately want items to sell for as much as possible without having it expire which would cost the listing fee. Perfect example is someone listing a vanity for 45m which cost him 2m. 3 days later it doesn't sell and he relists for 36m which roughly costs another 2m to list. See the price reduction? If the listing fee was drastically reduced, you'll actually get price inflation in CS as there's no penalty for having items expire. You'll get more troll items being listed into the millions more so than now. The 5% needs to stay to keep the CS flow nominal. If your items aren't selling, you've overpriced the demand for it. Having it longer in cs won't help your cause to sell.

The problem is that you want to make gold, but are losing it to the listing fees. Perhaps you need to find other items that are desirable or adjust your farming areas. You can't force people to pay for something they don't want.

[konafez]

No..the auction fees are being used to refurbish the presidential cake stash...


Request denied

[voidPtr]

So noone answers the question that I ASK:
Why the auction works this way "has a fee", and the forum trades works the other way "Not has a fee"
?
Why, if auction has a fee, would "good for the game", and at the same time, if BIG forum trades continue to go without any fees, is again "good for the game"?
Every FORUMER says "-1", without answering this question (unfortunately there are no "noforumers" in forum). One says the prices would go too low, other say the prices would go too high, but in reality This would be the Real Market, in which anyone could FREELY sell and buy anything the way anyone decides, without any fees. The Free commerce that includes All the players in the game would make the Real market.

In both forum and in auction, the SAME ITEMS are traded, agree? Same AL items.
In One Real Market, the interest for item and the price of an item is made from the interest of ALL PEOPLE involved in that market.
A Very Small Submarket (let's call it) that includes (very) small subset from All the ppl in the Whole market - is NOT the real market. It's another market, but not the real. The real one includes All Ppl, and what All Ppl want to buy, and what All Ppl want to sell.

This is the FIFTH post of mine in this thread, and in every one of mine posts i'm asking the Same, SAME question:
"Why auction trades should be different from the forum trades, when both are just same 'item interchange'? Why it's 'good' the one to have a fee, and at the same time it's 'good' the other to NOT have a fee?"
(idk, probably i should use CAPS LOCK, bold, underline, and italic at the same time, on the same question. and hope someone reads what i'm talking about.)
I'm receiving no answers of My Question, only One person Even Said Something about forum trades - and commenting forum trades he said a fact that imo forum people already know and would agree with - that forum market is Different market (different from auction market in which All players can trade), with different participants, different buyers, different fees, and different prices.
Why two markets; and the Small Submarket (but with (Very) Big Deals) doesn't have fees, and the whole market has fees? And why this is good?

[Moyser]

The Auction fees keeps a check on two things. First, you don't price something absurdly, and second, you cannot compete at prices with others continuously.

Also, the auction is much more convenient in the aspect that you can sell your item 24/7 and it can be bought by anyone and once someone has bought it, the deal's done. The same can't be said for trades in forums. Both players need to be online and people might change their minds even after saying that they will buy it.


And to top it all off, the prices in forums are usually lower than the prices of the same items in auction which means that the seller is making more or less the same profit as he would have if he had sold via auction.

Basically, forums trades are used for very extremely pricey items or for very specific enchants because it's tough to check for every enchants in Auction.

Auction and Forums both have their pros and cons and to me they are quite balanced. Fees should not be reduced so -1 to this post

[Kakashis]

Pretty much all that needs to be said has been said. The cs is just like malls. People need to pay rent to sell merchandise, and you get better foot traffic but more fees so your product needs to be priced a little higher to cover the operating cost. You then have ebay which offers you the same product online, but they must beat the store price in order to make it more appealing to sell. Unfortunately the mall store may not perform as well as intended and took losses to pay rent to the mall. In this example, you are that store that's underperforming and need to adjust your product or price.

Anyways, you have very few supporters and lack basic economic understanding. I don't think STS will mess with the balance of the CS listing fees. Find other means to generate gold. 1.5m loss just sounds like you're listing an item that's worth maybe 1m for 6m+ multiple times.

[Teases]

I think that the tax system is a necessary evil. It probably is discouraging for people selling big tickets items (which is why you rarely see hard to find vanities for sale), but as Alwarez said, it promotes merching and on top of that vanity sales (AKA people putting up items for an insane amount of gold with no intention of those items ever selling). A great alternative would be some sort of "merchant" mode where players could set up a small shop that players on that map could click on that is outside of the auction system. It isn't as game-breaking of a change and could create a little economy or farmer's market event among guilds. IDK.

[voidPtr]

butthurt, infect, mad, asf, karma, mad, blind (in "Nice comments"), smart ..., use ur brain, retarded
(even ignoring the fact that insults are not in forum tos (although this should not be ignored - 1. Please Respect Others. 2. No inappropriate talk. 3. Please, no Profanity. ))
, can someone enlighten me, what in my last post deserves offending? i have been not understood in what i'm saying (for several posts), so i'm explaining the best i could, and receive insults for explaining? for trying to get understood what i'm saying?
i don't think i insulted anyone in any of my posts. i'm wrong? if insulting gonna get me friends - then nty, i don't wanna start to insult anyone anyway.

ok, then. seems ppl started to read what i say (finally).
i'm still not completely understood. but getting closer.
lets see now what's in answers.

"99.999.999g Deary egg in the whole (auc) market" -
this is not an answer of my question. Nothing here is said abut forum. You already said you want fees in auction, so I'm asking:
Why Then in your opinion forum trades should NOT have a fee?
Besides, what you talking about has nothing to do with the Real prices of items in both markets. If something is cheap in both markets, and then in each market (both auc and forum) 1000 ppl list this item for 99m - Will then the price of this item become 99m? No, because there would be cheaper priced same item. In both markets noone will buy consciously deary for 99m. Your are talking (i suppose) for something completely else - for errors - involuntary buying - which is something else, easy making errors Is Bad and Should Be Fixed, with enough Warning messages and so on - there're Many things that could be done:
for instance the buttons for sorting should be Much further one from other. And more importantly - the message for buying should be "Do you wanna buy ... for 99,999,999g?"; also the font size of the gold can be Bigger for bigger sums; also for every purchase there could be a 30s(for instance) countdown, in which you could cancel you purchase (probably from alerts or somewhere else); also there could be an option where you say - "don't show me all items, show me only cheapest three or only The cheapest";
many possible ideas - but Again - this is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT - if there are no involuntary buys (how it should be) - then it's the same like forum trades - you can list it but noone will buy it. And btw there are Few ppl that Don't have 99m in inventory; and btw 0.5% of 99m is 0.5m;
And EVEN if auc has fees - then why not forum (BIG priced) trades should have not?

"First, you don't price something absurdly" - this is same (as the previous), price it whatever, noone will buy if there'is lower. Same as in Any market.

"you cannot compete at prices with others continuously" - so, you saying that trader changing(lowering) his price is bad? So forum trader could change(lower) his price is good, but auction - bad? (forum traders should have this luxury, but auction traders not?) why forum traders should have an advantage, that would make easier for them sell their items (if they are willing to change price), while in the same time auction traders should be hindered to sell (if they are willing to change price)? And why it's good the price of an item to be STOPPED to go fast in direction of the REAL market price? IMO, it should be the opposite - a "wrong price"("not right estimated price") should reach the REAL market price as fast as possible. The REAL market price is the price for which both: seller(s) are ok with selling, and buyer(s) are ok with buying.

"players need to be online and people might change their minds even after saying that they will buy it" - everyone needs to be online to do anything (on any game or anything on intrnet). should be online for list, online for price change, online for completing sell or completing buy.
auction seller can change his mind and remove his listing. Auction buyer can change his mind and decide not to buy. So, In both auction and forum trades, there should be a Single moment in time, in which both seller and buyer are ok with terms of the deal. If any is not ok, in both cases(buyer or seller), he can/would cancel the deal.

"the prices in forums are usually lower than the prices of the same items in auction" - yes of course, i'm saying the same. the fees are different. at least. there are other things also (widening the price difference even more). That's what i'm saying, THE ITEMS ARE THE SAME, they shouldn't have different prices.
(Noone ever said - why it's good Same Item to have Different prices? And who profits from that, from the different prices of items?)

"the seller is making more or less the same profit as he would have if he had sold via auction" - what about the buyer? Is the SAME item bought from auc, would be the same price as bought from forum?

"Basically, forums trades are used for very extremely pricey items or for very specific enchants because it's tough to check for every enchants in Auction" - So, i didn't understood, why is good these "very extremely pricey items" to be sold without any fees, when 10k items in auction are with fees? ppl talk about the "gold sinks", so why should poor(small) sellers have fees, when rich(big) sellers don't have? Seems to me "not right". In economy (of which i have no idea, was said) richer ppl have Far bigger taxes. no? (not zero, not even equal - bigger.) But i "lack Basic economic understanding", so i'm probably wrong.

"Auction and Forums both have their pros and cons and to me they are quite balanced" - balanced are things with equal weights.
If both were 5% - would be balanced. If both were 0% - would be balanced. If both were 50% - would be balanced again. But 0% != 5% . (for instance, 5% of 10m is 500k, and 0% of 10m is 0k. 0k is almost equal to 500k.)

"sounds like you're listing an item that's worth maybe 1m for 6m+ multiple times" - that's no good (not right) thing to say (again) - if attention is paid to my posts, it can be noticed that the market price for my item Back then Was 7.5(at Least); but the market price depends on supply and demand - so Can Change. And the sellers and buyers may not know this change, if the price cannot be changed freely. And if the price is not close to the Real market price At That moment - then the buyer can buy for a price that's not right (too high), and also the seller can sell for a price that's not right(too low) - the price should be freely adjustable. And imo, it's equally wrong something to be (said to be) priced at 750% Less, as to be 750% More. Both are equally wrong.

"The cs is just like mall..." - comparing example/situation/scenario is never good, because the comparing situation/scenario is always different from the original, it's always better to talk for the original, to avoid crooked conclusions. Now i'll have to point everything in this scenario that is different, so crooks the original. and i don't wanna do this, it's hard to even map this scenario to the original - what in this example are the forum trades? You know that ebay has fees for trades, and not small? you know that paypal(part of ebay) has fees for money transfer, and not small? and there're other losses too, in ebay(or any online) selling. Every online shop/auction/whatever (in which you can list items), has fees, for working. And in real shops they(the fees) are also essential for business - this is what the malls or ebay gather, from the shop keepers. The main income of AL i think doesn't come from trade fees, it comes from opening locks, awakenings,... , so here's another difference. The items in different shops (online or not) come from different countries and labels, are not same (unlike the AL items), so can't be compared directly. Even completely same item in different shops have different return policies and guarantees - but AL digital items are the same.
Some online shops/sites receive much more visitors then some(or any) malls, and other online shops/sites receive much less visitors, than malls.
It's always better to talk for the original situation, avoids many unnecessary words.

about the original - auction and forum Both have the possibility for listing items; and the possibility for selling these listed items. In both the same trading is done - trading the same AL items, so both should have the same fee, nomatter what this fee is - being it 0%, 25%, or whatever%.

---
I think the title of my thread is not right, it confuses ppl of what i believe is "right", so i now think i probably should change it (make another thread), so ppl can finally understand what i'm saying. I'm saying "item price" should be equal everywhere, trading methods should be equal everywhere, fees should be equal - but ppl mainly talk about what they read in the title. i Still think that "the smaller the fee" - the most fair price will be the outcome, for Both buyer and seller (the most real market price); But if bigger fee is needed (for something, only devs can see this, they have all the data) - then ok if it's Needed, as long as the fee is Equal.

[eugene9707]

So.... Answering your question as to why auction had a fee and forum doesn't....

Selling through auction is selling through a median (middle man, you may call it). And the middle man has an operating cost. But with the cost it comes some benefits, like it operates without your presence and effort (you list it then wait for it to sell), it's also visible to all players online.

Where else for forum, more more effort has to be put in on the seller's side, and there's no middle man. So with forum selling, the seller needs to put in time to create posts, check frequently to see if anyone is interested (or be online for messages in game). On top of that, you need to also schedule meeting time suitable for both buyer and seller, and you also have limited number of viewers (forumers only)

Hope that explains why there's a fee for auction but none for town sells/forum trades

[You Mad Or Nah]

Don't need to call ppl retarded runagain that just disrespectfull
Stop acting like a immature kid or maybe you are a kid :/
Btw if there's no fees to put stuff expect in auction just expect there to be a flooded amount of useless items(like now but 100x worse) If u don't wana waste money on fees don't put it in auc simple. Just spend your time advertising your items in towns or even here. Just my opinion

[Cinco]

A fee for direct trades? Sounds like a money-maker.