Mage

[Mymysticalmage]

Cinco, i have a question. How come mage is trash? You make sets class bound yet you dont fix the charecter imbalance. Brilliant idea. Your nerf mage into the ground yet it seem you refuse to fix it. How to fix this. Mana definitely needs to be added. Mana shield is the most useless skill since the class was nerfed into the ground at the end of 80 cap. Heals also need to be buffed. With the recent l100 update a level 100 rhino has better heal then a mage. Yet it can tank like a bear. It makes 0 sense why a rhino that uses str can heal better than a mage. Armor a slight increase in armor would also be nice. Along with "a healthy dose of mana". Pvp wise mage is by far the weakest. Refering above rhinos heal better than mages yet can tank like a bear and nuke like a fox. No skill is required to kill a mage at this point. Bird can break mana shield usually on the first blast. Which is fine but mage has so little armor that if bird breaks mana shield mage will die in 2 to 3 skills. Hence the reason more armor would help. Mana is needed because when mana shield is used is usually only last a few hits. Compared to 80 cap when it would take atleast 4 to 5 hits. It truely sadens me to see nothing being done to help. :( or do you guys simply not care any more?

[Wsrg]

Adapt. Change your style. I've done ok with my mage, and you're better than I am...so you can definitely do it...

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[Mymysticalmage]

Adapt. Change your style. I've done ok with my mage, and you're better than I am...so you can definitely do it...

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There is only so much you can do. I did that one. Used dex set. Then people cried. As usual.....

[Kurvy]

LOL Dude just learn mage, u always crying at cinco

[Mymysticalmage]

LOLLLLLLLL Dude just learn mage

Says you.........

[Kurvy]

Says you.........

no one else is complaining. You just want kills handed to you lol.

[Daueden]

1. Mages are a support character that are not meant to be huge damage dealers or tanks.
2. Even though they are support, drain deals the most damage of any skill, and fire I believe is second or third.
3. With this said mages can still beat any class 1v1, the only one they have trouble against is bird and sometimes rhino. And if ms is timed correctly a mage will kill a bird 9/10 times.

So, it seems that you need to change your playstyle, if you try to nuke a bird you will die, which is why you will need to kite.

[Arvoh]

Hey buddy! Sorry to hear about your current struggles with this new cap that our folks at STS worked hard on! Yeah you do make some good points about rhinos being a bit OP, but theyre only OP in 1v1s. To be honest mages arent the weakest this cap, foxes really have it worse than us mages, and birds arent really a problem, if you play it right, i personally think this cap is harder, but you gotta understand that 80, 85, mages were pretty OP, maybe you got used to that, i dont know.. :) Anyways, i think this cap is pretty balanced for the most part, if you're struggling i'd be happy to teach you mage!

[XghostzX]

I'll admit the heal on mages is a bit low (maybe just double our heal, It wouldn't cause us to be OP. It would simply make us more effective healers). And I do feel that my mana gets drained instantaneously, but mana shield is still not useless. A little more mana would be nice though!

At the end of the day, I don't believe mages are underpowered. I think we were used to being OP all these past caps, and for once we're not in that position. And I've enjoyed PvP for the most part as a mage. Granted, there will be times when I get the worst streaks of bad luck against bears simply because if they dodge and then hit you, there is literally nothing you can do. But that's more of a dodge issue...

[Mymysticalmage]

Yea remaking maps/mobs. And taking maps/mobs from other maps is real hard. Ive done it a time or two.

[Arvoh]

I'll admit the heal on mages is a bit low (maybe just double our heal, It wouldn't cause us to be OP. It would simply make us more effective healers). And I do feel that my mana gets drained instantaneously, but mana shield is still not useless. A little more mana would be nice though!

At the end of the day, I don't believe mages are underpowered. I think we were used to being OP all these past caps, and for once we're not in that position. And I've enjoyed PvP for the most part as a mage. Granted, there will be times when I get the worst streaks of bad luck against bears simply because if they dodge and then hit you, there is literally nothing you can do. But that's more of a dodge issue...

Exactly! I love a new challenge with us mages finally, pvp was getting a bit boring. After a while i managed this cap and its not all that hard anymore.

[Kurvy]

Yea remaking maps/mobs. And taking maps/mobs from other maps is real hard. Ive done it a time or two.

Go play call of duty or something

[Mymysticalmage]

I'll admit the heal on mages is a bit low (maybe just double our heal, It wouldn't cause us to be OP. It would simply make us more effective healers). And I do feel that my mana gets drained instantaneously, but mana shield is still not useless. A little more mana would be nice though!

At the end of the day, I don't believe mages are underpowered. I think we were used to being OP all these past caps, and for once we're not in that position. And I've enjoyed PvP for the most part as a mage. Granted, there will be times when I get the worst streaks of bad luck against bears simply because if they dodge and then hit you, there is literally nothing you can do. But that's more of a dodge issue...

Appeciate the feed back yo. However, bears can nuke mage but mage cant nuke bears. Goes for some other classes as well. How this logical?

[Mymysticalmage]

Go play call of duty or something

You probably should...

[Kurvy]

Appeciate the feed back yo. However, bears can nuke mage but mage cant nuke bears. Goes for some other classes as well. How this logical?
Why would anything ever be able to nuke bear....

[Arvoh]

Appeciate the feed back yo. However, bears can nuke mage but mage cant nuke bears. Goes for some other classes as well. How this logical?

Because mages are support healers, and bears are meant to tank. :)

[Dolloway]

You say mages are underpowered yet a team consisting of a mage will probably win Ghost's tournament.

[XghostzX]

Appeciate the feed back yo. However, bears can nuke mage but mage cant nuke bears. Goes for some other classes as well. How this logical?

Bears are tough one vs one. But that's the issue with our concept of balanced PvP in PL. Sometimes classes aren't as well equipped for 1v1s. Our class has always been meant to support. And while I think our heal is relatively low at the moment, we're still an incredible support class – our quick heal cool down allows us to to free our teammates from any stuns, freezes, or roots. We can revive and debuff. And we can nuke at the right times.

[plpr]

You have to look at it as bears have mostly single target skills like birds. They also arent ranged. So when they hit you it has to hit hard.


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[Mymysticalmage]

Bears are tough one vs one. But that's the issue with our concept of balanced PvP in PL. Sometimes classes aren't as well equipped for 1v1s. Our class has always been meant to support. And while I think our heal is relatively low at the moment, we're still an incredible support class – our quick heal cool down allows us to to free our teammates from any stuns, freezes, or roots. We can revive and debuff. And we can nuke at the right times.

I get mages are supposed to be used for support. However, when rhinos have better armor and better heals its defeats the purpose.

[Mymysticalmage]

You have to look at it as bears have mostly single target skills like birds. They also arent ranged. So when they hit you it has to hit hard.


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Bears can pull from like what 12m? Mage so weak all it takes pull, hell scream, sms, slash stomp. Somthing like that.

[Mymysticalmage]

You say mages are underpowered yet a team consisting of a mage will probably win Ghost's tournament.

Yes. Ia double mage team would lose. A pro bird and pro mage would likely win.

[Waug]

Hohoho, finally I don't have to say you mymy that thing that I kept saying since last few decades oops, last few months because everybody already said that directly or indirectly - go learn mage, still a nice time to do that. If I was more active and not lazy to lvl up, I'd play mage most of the time and who knows I'd be also able to beat nemo with my mage ofc after re-analysing my own gameplay vids and learning from em and attending nemo's lecture on town and so on.

There's a really very thin and fine line between a balanced class and op. If ur (mage) play style is ordinary, u can't and shouldn't be able to beat someone exceptional (other class) u have to be exceptional, if ur class get buffed then ofc that gap can be filled but then exceptional mages will wreck havoc on other class exceptional players.

About tanks, I'll discuss here latter IF necessary.

[XghostzX]

I get mages are supposed to be used for support. However, when rhinos have better armor and better heals its defeats the purpose.

Rhinos are also a support class. We have this notion that mages need to be the best support class. Rhino's can't nuke and deal massive AOE damage like us mages. All classes have their tradeoffs.

[Mymysticalmage]

Rhinos are also a support class. We have this notion that mages need to be the best support class. Rhino's can't nuke and deal massive AOE damage like us mages. All classes have their tradeoffs.

At this point in time they do more damage then mage, yet can tank, and heal better. I could care less if mage is the best. I care about dying to a bird or bear before i can even use drain. They can nuke us but we cant nuke it. Logical. Not only that. But even if i could kill other classes id still probably say something about it. Cause take a bird like chaotik or cold. Both people who know bird very well. If a new player decides they want to try pvp with mage. They are going to get farmed. Im all for skill gaps but if a bird can just spam skills vs mage and kill it easily. How will that person every learn i watched 2 pro mages get farmed by a nub bird that was spamming skills. A bird shouldnt be able to 1v2 mages easily. People say "the game is dying" yet it seems as if they dont care. In fact i completely stopped buying platinum cause of this.

[Mymysticalmage]

Hohoho, finally I don't have to say you mymy that thing that I kept saying since last few decades oops, last few months because everybody already said that directly or indirectly - go learn mage, still a nice time to do that. If I was more active and not lazy to lvl up, I'd play mage most of the time and who knows I'd be also able to beat nemo with my mage ofc after re-analysing my own gameplay vids and learning from em and attending nemo's lecture on town and so on.

There's a really very thin and fine line between a balanced class and op. If ur (mage) play style is ordinary, u can't and shouldn't be able to beat someone exceptional (other class) u have to be exceptional, if ur class get buffed then ofc that gap can be filled but then exceptional mages will wreck havoc on other class exceptional players.

About tanks, I'll discuss here latter IF necessary.

"Learn mage" says the guy who doesnt even play mage. Farmed you 80 cap. Farmed you 85. Congrats you can finally kill me. Reading anything you type is a waste of my time because its so irrelevant.

[Blyzzor]

Listen to the guy who cried on the forums the most about mage being "op". Reading anything you say is probably a waste of my time. Thats if i can even understood what you said caise such bad english.

Why do you even make a thread when you're being stubborn and won't listen to anyone's opinion. You want your class to be op and easy to play just like 85 cap. 85 talon mage would easily 1v1 any class it was easily stronger than birds in 1v1s as well. And as I remember you were one of the players abusing the talon build instead of picking the more challenging way to play mage, int build (didn't see you play blaster either seems like it was too hard for you). 85 cap was pretty much either dex mages or birds+ a couple of rhinos and foxes and no bears and I didn't hear much complaining back then from you. Maybe because of the simple fact that talon mage was easily the strongest 1v1 class out of all even though bird was op in 3v3s and strong in 1v1s.

Like I said, don't make a thread if you're just going to create a big argument out of it, let's not be hypocrites here. You crush everyones opinions simply because you can't dominate with your own class, there's not much else to it. "Bears can nuke mages but mages can't nuke bears" just exposed your ... lack of intelligence.

[XghostzX]

At this point in time they do more damage then mage, yet can tank, and heal better. I could care less if mage is the best. I care about dying to a bird or bear before i can even use drain. They can nuke us but we cant nuke it. Logical. Not only that. But even if i could kill other classes id still probably say something about it. Cause take a bird like chaotik or cold. Both people who know bird very well. If a new player decides they want to try pvp with mage. They are going to get farmed. Im all for skill gaps but if a bird can just spam skills vs mage and kill it easily. How will that person every learn i watched 2 pro mages get farmed by a nub bird that was spamming skills. A bird shouldnt be able to 1v2 mages easily. People say "the game is dying" yet it seems as if they dont care. In fact i completely stopped buying platinum cause of this.

They typically do more damage in a 1v1 scenario. But I said it before and I'll say it again, mages can dish out more damage to more players with fewer spells in light of our AOE skills. There are tradeoffs. Combine a mage's drain and heal and it's not too far off from the amount of heals a rhino gets.

[Jilsponie]

Some good feedback here... Mage is dramatically lacking in mana... If you look at geared int mages 51-76 the mana to health ratio is around 2 to 1. Mage being the only class without a dodge buff (mana shield instead) the large amounts of mana are needed to offset the lack of dodge compared to every other class. They now have closer to a 1 to 2 mana health ratio. With such low mana and such high damage at endgame it causes mana to deplete with justa couple auto attacks...

Many saying mage is supposed to be a support class, this is 100% true and forgotten by many. Unfortunately mages best way to support has always been healing the team, filling the groups health with just a few heals, along with removing debuffs when needed. With the current huge amounts of health combined with the extremely low heal, replacing health to the team as a support player is nearly useless to even try... You pretty much just have to focus on removing debuffs, but all classes have a skill to remove these already.

Regardless of all the bickering on this thread it seems all can agree mage needs some help atm. Hopefully we can see some love :)

[Waug]

....but if a bird can just spam skills vs mage and kill it easily. How will that person every learn i watched 2 pro mages get farmed by a nub bird that was spamming skills.

I'll take this as compliment & I'm pretty happy to be called 'a nub bird' & 'spam skills' only thing I'd deffer would be 'I watched' rather I was one of the '2 pro mages' would be just exact, oh did I just say pro, nope u said, I quoted.

THX FOR THE COMPLIMENT.

[Kurvy]

Some good feedback here... Mage is dramatically lacking in mana... If you look at geared int mages 51-76 the mana to health ratio is around 2 to 1. Mage being the only class without a dodge buff (mana shield instead) the large amounts of mana are needed to offset the lack of dodge compared to every other class. They now have closer to a 1 to 2 mana health ratio. With such low mana and such high damage at endgame it causes mana to deplete with justa couple auto attacks...

Many saying mage is supposed to be a support class, this is 100% true and forgotten by many. Unfortunately mages best way to support has always been healing the team, filling the groups health with just a few heals, along with removing debuffs when needed. With the current huge amounts of health combined with the extremely low heal, replacing health to the team as a support player is nearly useless to even try... You pretty much just have to focus on removing debuffs, but all classes have a skill to remove these already.

Regardless of all the bickering on this thread it seems all can agree mage needs some help atm. Hopefully we can see some love :)
Mage is fine, i havent any problems

[Spullllll]

Fire, ice, ms if needed. Drain lighting fire ice. There ya go typical build for killing birds. Keep rhinos iced, as well as bears. Foxes i dont really have anything except keep distance. And mages, well do normal combo. Mage isnt really all that hard. You are making it hard. Only thing that nees to be buffed is heal. Thats it

[Arvoh]

"Learn mage" says the guy who doesnt even play mage. Farmed you 80 cap. Farmed you 85. Congrats you can finally kill me. Reading anything you type is a waste of my time because its so irrelevant.

Hey buddy! You seem frustrated with the current pvp situation with mages, to be honest, mages just need a slight buff in their heal. Other than that I dont see anything else thats a problem. I've been enjoying this cap more than the past couple ones, its a lot less boring. Anyways, I'll be more than glad to teach you mage anytime! :)

[HotDiggityDog]

What's truly needed is a guide for mages
So we can redirect anyone having trouble in PvP , so they can know how to beat each class. I can work on one i've start to figure out ways. I will make a guide one of these days then mages will seem like the top class if the top players of other classes don't share there ways. AAlright that sounds like a plan

[XghostzX]

What's truly needed is a guide for mages
So we can redirect anyone having trouble in PvP , so they can know how to beat each class. I can work on one i've start to figure out ways. I will make a guide one of these days then mages will seem like the top class if the top players of other classes don't share there ways. AAlright that sounds like a plan

Guides are always great and useful, but the best type of guide is to just play and learn, and get a feel for the ranges.

[Arvoh]

What's truly needed is a guide for mages
So we can redirect anyone having trouble in PvP , so they can know how to beat each class. I can work on one i've start to figure out ways. I will make a guide one of these days then mages will seem like the top class if the top players of other classes don't share there ways. AAlright that sounds like a plan

That sounds like a really helpful idea to people struggling with mage, but it wont make mages go any higher in the pvp chain. If anything itll expose our strengths and weaknesses to everyone else. Nice idea though!

[plpr]

Bears can pull from like what 12m? Mage so weak all it takes pull, hell scream, sms, slash stomp. Somthing like that.

Exactly where fire and heal come into place.


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[Waug]

Time for a serious comment now, It wasn't needed, Cause Ik if Cinco would read this, he wouldn't be convinced at all because you're lacking essential logics /data and everybody else opposed you with facts but still I'll do it. You're right I have not played L100 mage although I do fight with em all the time. If those player who opposed you here would actually support you I'd check in-depth even I'd make a L100 mage.

One single line of yours is contradicting strongly with every post you made to justify ur original point -

Yes. Ia double mage team would lose. A pro bird and pro mage would likely win.

"a bird and mage team is best team according to you, not a double bird team neither a double mage team, why? probably not the time to if you think birds are such op, bird + Bird would wreck any other team formation. ALTERNATIVE if I say if a mage is such valuable to a team then buffing it would cause the team op and just like before a team of mages would simply prevail anything else " - The logic that already justified by and stated by you.

Want me to point out each and every mistake you do like I did to ur video (hopefully you remember that)? probably not the time to do so directly, You talk about pro birds that's good but you never learn from em, you talked about cold, chao. The range play and range tactic of Kanital was Superior than cold & chao in fact any pro bird that we used to know who mostly rely on fast and accurate delivery of combo along with cold's dependency of a PARTICULAR range glitch RATHER THAN range tactics, now I'm sure both the range things r out of ur reach. You talk about pro mages, but never try to understand that how they play, how a very few exceptional mages play, how that they not totally dependent of a combo rather than also dependent on range, kite, ms timing not like combo fails they fails. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU is that you jump into a fight then go to enemy and deliver ur combo that u learned and practiced, if that works fine if not then "wow sts nerfed mages to ground ........" there's no scope of learning, no scope of betterment, no scope of challenge.

Even every new cap demand some changes in ur playstyle and combo, but adaptation only means change to a better (op) set to u. Mages were op, most cap most of the time, when we say that unlike you we faced enough challenge, pushed ourselves to the far most level that anybody can reach ever, played such situations where getting in range means insta kill for birds and understanding everything in depth, played with favorite class at the time when favorite class was utterly under powered & like pretty rare species, you see it occassionally, Played against (2-1.3-1 multiple players multiple classes multiple levels & challenging situation not like wow that's an op class/ team/ higher level lets go to tree and leave to save kd every time, I'm not saying doing care for kd is bad but sometime facing challenges teaches you something unique.

The major problem I can see is that the both the tank classes, bear & rhino (thank cinco that tank mages, tank foxes etc are a thing anymore) are kinda op and interesting thing is that, the thing I asked to lower dodge cap slightly like 10-15 can solve many situations, it's more justified now because before at time when tanks were under powered, lowering dodge cap would make em weaker but now lowering dodge cap will actually help in all situations including tone down tanks a bit.

[Spullllll]

Time for a serious comment now, It wasn't needed, Cause Ik if Cinco would read this, he wouldn't be convinced at all because you're lacking essential logics /data and everybody else opposed you with facts but still I'll do it. You're right I have not played L100 mage although I do fight with em all the time. If those player who opposed you here would actually support you I'd check in-depth even I'd make a L100 mage.

One single line of yours is contradicting strongly with every post you made to justify ur original point -


"a bird and mage team is best team according to you, not a double bird team neither a double mage team, why? probably not the time to if you think birds are such op, bird + Bird would wreck any other team formation. ALTERNATIVE if I say if a mage is such valuable to a team then buffing it would cause the team op and just like before a team of mages would simply prevail anything else " - The logic that already justified by and stated by you.

Want me to point out each and every mistake you do like I did to ur video (hopefully you remember that)? probably not the time to do so directly, You talk about pro birds that's good but you never learn from em, you talked about cold, chao. The range play and range tactic of Kanital was Superior than cold & chao in fact any pro bird that we used to know who mostly rely on fast and accurate delivery of combo along with cold's dependency of a PARTICULAR range glitch RATHER THAN range tactics, now I'm sure both the range things r out of ur reach. You talk about pro mages, but never try to understand that how they play, how a very few exceptional mages play, how that they not totally dependent of a combo rather than also dependent on range, kite, ms timing not like combo fails they fails. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU is that you jump into a fight then go to enemy and deliver ur combo that u learned and practiced, if that works fine if not then "wow sts nerfed mages to ground ........" there's no scope of learning, no scope of betterment, no scope of challenge.

Even every new cap demand some changes in ur playstyle and combo, but adaptation only means change to a better (op) set to u. Mages were op, most cap most of the time, when we say that unlike you we faced enough challenge, pushed ourselves to the far most level that anybody can reach ever, played such situations where getting in range means insta kill for birds and understanding everything in depth, played with favorite class at the time when favorite class was utterly under powered & like pretty rare species, you see it occassionally, Played against (2-1.3-1 multiple players multiple classes multiple levels & challenging situation not like wow that's an op class/ team/ higher level lets go to tree and leave to save kd every time, I'm not saying doing care for kd is bad but sometime facing challenges teaches you something unique.

The major problem I can see is that the both the tank classes, bear & rhino (thank cinco that tank mages, tank foxes etc are a thing anymore) are kinda op and interesting thing is that, the thing I asked to lower dodge cap slightly like 10-15 can solve many situations, it's more justified now because before at time when tanks were under powered, lowering dodge cap would make em weaker but now lowering dodge cap will actually help in all situations including tone down tanks a bit.

Agreed. Many believe that the combo they come to learn and use will work everytime. That isnt the case. Especially with mages. Idk why this is a hard concept for some to learn. Just adapt and play.

[Mymysticalmage]

Hey buddy! You seem frustrated with the current pvp situation with mages, to be honest, mages just need a slight buff in their heal. Other than that I dont see anything else thats a problem. I've been enjoying this cap more than the past couple ones, its a lot less boring. Anyways, I'll be more than glad to teach you mage anytime! :)

Brilliant idea. Take tips from the people you farm so you can farm them more. Id love them :)

[3pc]

All the classes are balanced af at 100. If u keep dying your just not playing ur class right which is not sts problem.

[XghostzX]

Ik if Cinco would read this, he wouldn't be convinced at all because you're lacking essential logics

You all are, infect, lacking essential logics.

But hey, anytime Cold gets roasted I'm all ears.

[Mymysticalmage]

Time for a serious comment now, It wasn't needed, Cause Ik if Cinco would read this, he wouldn't be convinced at all because you're lacking essential logics /data and everybody else opposed you with facts but still I'll do it. You're right I have not played L100 mage although I do fight with em all the time. If those player who opposed you here would actually support you I'd check in-depth even I'd make a L100 mage.

One single line of yours is contradicting strongly with every post you made to justify ur original point -


"a bird and mage team is best team according to you, not a double bird team neither a double mage team, why? probably not the time to if you think birds are such op, bird + Bird would wreck any other team formation. ALTERNATIVE if I say if a mage is such valuable to a team then buffing it would cause the team op and just like before a team of mages would simply prevail anything else " - The logic that already justified by and stated by you.

Want me to point out each and every mistake you do like I did to ur video (hopefully you remember that)? probably not the time to do so directly, You talk about pro birds that's good but you never learn from em, you talked about cold, chao. The range play and range tactic of Kanital was Superior than cold & chao in fact any pro bird that we used to know who mostly rely on fast and accurate delivery of combo along with cold's dependency of a PARTICULAR range glitch RATHER THAN range tactics, now I'm sure both the range things r out of ur reach. You talk about pro mages, but never try to understand that how they play, how a very few exceptional mages play, how that they not totally dependent of a combo rather than also dependent on range, kite, ms timing not like combo fails they fails. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU is that you jump into a fight then go to enemy and deliver ur combo that u learned and practiced, if that works fine if not then "wow sts nerfed mages to ground ........" there's no scope of learning, no scope of betterment, no scope of challenge.

Even every new cap demand some changes in ur playstyle and combo, but adaptation only means change to a better (op) set to u. Mages were op, most cap most of the time, when we say that unlike you we faced enough challenge, pushed ourselves to the far most level that anybody can reach ever, played such situations where getting in range means insta kill for birds and understanding everything in depth, played with favorite class at the time when favorite class was utterly under powered & like pretty rare species, you see it occassionally, Played against (2-1.3-1 multiple players multiple classes multiple levels & challenging situation not like wow that's an op class/ team/ higher level lets go to tree and leave to save kd every time, I'm not saying doing care for kd is bad but sometime facing challenges teaches you something unique.

The major problem I can see is that the both the tank classes, bear & rhino (thank cinco that tank mages, tank foxes etc are a thing anymore) are kinda op and interesting thing is that, the thing I asked to lower dodge cap slightly like 10-15 can solve many situations, it's more justified now because before at time when tanks were under powered, lowering dodge cap would make em weaker but now lowering dodge cap will actually help in all situations including tone down tanks a bit.

I love when people who play mage tell me how to play mage when they dont play mage. I didnt really contridict myself. A rhino and bird much much more likely to win. Anyways, you stated one of my problems. The range. Im not saying nerf range. What i am saying is that birds can land 6 skills from a range of 10m+. Birds also have better dodge, and better armor. So, birds have more dmg at 10m+ range then mage does. Mage can only land 3 skills from a range 10m+. Birds can do 600-800 dmg per skill i believe. Correct me if im wrong. Because im pretty sure of im just a bit. Anyways. I added up the mana and the health points of my mage with finam wand and bracer, and eshorts helm and armor. Along with black dragon 3pc. I added them up because mana can be used as health via mana shield. I got a total of 3,308 total health points when ive used mana shield. So, say bird low rolls for every skill they can hit from a range 10 meters +. 600x6 skills = 3600. Not including the dodge factor. Thats 3600 health points leaving mage with only 208 hp. Which they will most likely die to "auto". Heals to me seem like they dont even heal off enough dmg of 1 skill. I dont know the stats on a l100 bird "with gear" but if someone sends me them i will gladly revise. The damage output at a range for birds is way higher than mages. Which is reasonable. But for them to be able to drain or mana and hp at a range 10m+ makes mages kiting useless. Since mage can only land 3 skills at 10m+ when bird can land 6 skills at that range. Not to mention mage will only dodge about 2-4 skills before death occurs when fighting bird. While bird will dodge 5-7 skills if the happens to kill the bird. *note: these are guesstimates* not to mention the delay of the skills mage has. Thus, meaning birds produce 3600-4800 dmg in 6 skills before mage can deal im guessing 1000-1400 dmg in the 3 skills.


Mage vs bear: bear can nuke the mana shield in 1 skill. I seen above someone told me to use fire heal vs bears. Bears also have much much better dodge then mage. This is a terrible suggestion. 1. Because bear would likely dodge fire. And 2. Because, they will hit you with pull and nuke you before you can use fire. 3. Heal doesnt stop pull. So even if you do hit fire before they hit pull. This would have to be at exactly 12 and have to knock them out of 12. So they waste the skill. You would have to stay exactly in 12m and then go back out of range. Thats if you dont get hit by hell svream or pull. Very unlikey. Im not going any further because im sure you dont play mage. Anyways, killing a bear that knows what they are doing such as chao, or sao no matter how good you at mage you are is practically impossible 1v1. Simply because they can pull you in and nuke your mana shield in one skill then nuke ur hp away in 2-4 skills.

Mage vs rhino: rhino needs nerfed in general. But they are killable. With alot of luck.

Mage vs fox: havent played vs fox yet. No comments.

Mage in general: mage has the least amount of health then any of the classes (not sure about fox). They also have the least amount of armor.

Conclusion: health points and mana are so low is honestly a joke. However, this can obviously be fixed. All the thing listed above can simply be combated by giving mage 1. A slight buff in health points. At least 2700 health points need to be added. This would include just health points. No mana or armor buffs. 2. You could buff strictly mana by giving us atleast a 2k buff in mana. But the best option. And what is really needed is option 3. Buff both mana and health. Tweaks would probably be necessary for this one. But i was thinking +500-700hp and buff mana 1300-1400. Or instead of buffing hp. You developers could buff heal by 10%-20%. Any of these would help.
Time for a serious comment now, It wasn't needed, Cause Ik if Cinco would read this, he wouldn't be convinced at all because you're lacking essential logics /data and everybody else opposed you with facts but still I'll do it. You're right I have not played L100 mage although I do fight with em all the time. If those player who opposed you here would actually support you I'd check in-depth even I'd make a L100 mage.

One single line of yours is contradicting strongly with every post you made to justify ur original point -


"a bird and mage team is best team according to you, not a double bird team neither a double mage team, why? probably not the time to if you think birds are such op, bird + Bird would wreck any other team formation. ALTERNATIVE if I say if a mage is such valuable to a team then buffing it would cause the team op and just like before a team of mages would simply prevail anything else " - The logic that already justified by and stated by you.

Want me to point out each and every mistake you do like I did to ur video (hopefully you remember that)? probably not the time to do so directly, You talk about pro birds that's good but you never learn from em, you talked about cold, chao. The range play and range tactic of Kanital was Superior than cold & chao in fact any pro bird that we used to know who mostly rely on fast and accurate delivery of combo along with cold's dependency of a PARTICULAR range glitch RATHER THAN range tactics, now I'm sure both the range things r out of ur reach. You talk about pro mages, but never try to understand that how they play, how a very few exceptional mages play, how that they not totally dependent of a combo rather than also dependent on range, kite, ms timing not like combo fails they fails. THE PROBLEM WITH YOU is that you jump into a fight then go to enemy and deliver ur combo that u learned and practiced, if that works fine if not then "wow sts nerfed mages to ground ........" there's no scope of learning, no scope of betterment, no scope of challenge.

Even every new cap demand some changes in ur playstyle and combo, but adaptation only means change to a better (op) set to u. Mages were op, most cap most of the time, when we say that unlike you we faced enough challenge, pushed ourselves to the far most level that anybody can reach ever, played such situations where getting in range means insta kill for birds and understanding everything in depth, played with favorite class at the time when favorite class was utterly under powered & like pretty rare species, you see it occassionally, Played against (2-1.3-1 multiple players multiple classes multiple levels & challenging situation not like wow that's an op class/ team/ higher level lets go to tree and leave to save kd every time, I'm not saying doing care for kd is bad but sometime facing challenges teaches you something unique.

The major problem I can see is that the both the tank classes, bear & rhino (thank cinco that tank mages, tank foxes etc are a thing anymore) are kinda op and interesting thing is that, the thing I asked to lower dodge cap slightly like 10-15 can solve many situations, it's more justified now because before at time when tanks were under powered, lowering dodge cap would make em weaker but now lowering dodge cap will actually help in all situations including tone down tanks a bit.

I love when people who play mage tell me how to play mage when they dont play mage. I didnt really contridict myself. A rhino and bird much much more likely to win. Anyways, you stated one of my problems. The range. Im not saying nerf range. What i am saying is that birds can land 6 skills from a range of 10m+. Birds also have better dodge, and better armor. So, birds have more dmg at 10m+ range then mage does. Mage can only land 3 skills from a range 10m+. Birds can do 600-800 dmg per skill i believe. Correct me if im wrong. Because im pretty sure of im just a bit. Anyways. I added up the mana and the health points of my mage with finam wand and bracer, and eshorts helm and armor. Along with black dragon 3pc. I added them up because mana can be used as health via mana shield. I got a total of 3,308 total health points when ive used mana shield. So, say bird low rolls for every skill they can hit from a range 10 meters +. 600x6 skills = 3600. Not including the dodge factor. Thats 3600 health points leaving mage with only 208 hp. Which they will most likely die to "auto". Heals to me seem like they dont even heal off enough dmg of 1 skill. I dont know the stats on a l100 bird "with gear" but if someone sends me them i will gladly revise. The damage output at a range for birds is way higher than mages. Which is reasonable. But for them to be able to drain or mana and hp at a range 10m+ makes mages kiting useless. Since mage can only land 3 skills at 10m+ when bird can land 6 skills at that range. Not to mention mage will only dodge about 2-4 skills before death occurs when fighting bird. While bird will dodge 5-7 skills if the happens to kill the bird. *note: these are guesstimates* not to mention the delay of the skills mage has. Thus, meaning birds produce 3600-4800 dmg in 6 skills before mage can deal im guessing 1000-1400 dmg in the 3 skills.


Mage vs bear: bear can nuke the mana shield in 1 skill. I seen above someone told me to use fire heal vs bears. Bears also have much much better dodge then mage. This is a terrible suggestion. 1. Because bear would likely dodge fire. And 2. Because, they will hit you with pull and nuke you before you can use fire. 3. Heal doesnt stop pull. So even if you do hit fire before they hit pull. This would have to be at exactly 12 and have to knock them out of 12. So they waste the skill. You would have to stay exactly in 12m and then go back out of range. Thats if you dont get hit by hell svream or pull. Very unlikey. Im not going any further because im sure you dont play mage. Anyways, killing a bear that knows what they are doing such as chao, or sao no matter how good you at mage you are is practically impossible 1v1. Simply because they can pull you in and nuke your mana shield in one skill then nuke ur hp away in 2-4 skills.

Mage vs rhino: rhino needs nerfed in general. But they are killable. With alot of luck.

Mage vs fox: havent played vs fox yet. No comments.

Mage in general: mage has the lowest hp of all the classes (not sure about fox). Mage also has the lowest amount of armor. This would be reasonable if mage could do alot more dmg. I also think mage has one of the lowest amounts of mana(once again not sure. Correct me if im wrong)

Conclusion: health points and mana are so low is honestly a joke. However, this can obviously be fixed. All the thing listed above can simply be combated by giving mage 1. A slight buff in health points. At least 2700 health points need to be added. This would include just health points. No mana or armor buffs. 2. You could buff strictly mana by giving us atleast a 2k buff in mana. Or option 3. Buff health by increasing health points by 500-700 points. And buffing mana by 1700-2000. You could also buff heal by 10-20% instead of adding mana.

[Mymysticalmage]

Not sure why it posted twice. But not deleting cause not retyping the entire thing.........

[Mymysticalmage]

Why do you even make a thread when you're being stubborn and won't listen to anyone's opinion. You want your class to be op and easy to play just like 85 cap. 85 talon mage would easily 1v1 any class it was easily stronger than birds in 1v1s as well. And as I remember you were one of the players abusing the talon build instead of picking the more challenging way to play mage, int build (didn't see you play blaster either seems like it was too hard for you). 85 cap was pretty much either dex mages or birds+ a couple of rhinos and foxes and no bears and I didn't hear much complaining back then from you. Maybe because of the simple fact that talon mage was easily the strongest 1v1 class out of all even though bird was op in 3v3s and strong in 1v1s.

Like I said, don't make a thread if you're just going to create a big argument out of it, let's not be hypocrites here. You crush everyones opinions simply because you can't dominate with your own class, there's not much else to it. "Bears can nuke mages but mages can't nuke bears" just exposed your ... lack of intelligence.

I didnt play int cause i wasnt going to get farmed. Im lacking logic yet it was logical to use dex set.... how am i bieng stubborn for not wanting to waste my time??? As for the whole bears can nuke mage but mage dant nuke bear. I dont exactly see how thats lacking logic? Bear is a class meant for tank not for nuke... it doesnt make a lick of sense when it can do both vs a mage. Oh wait. I forgot you dont play mage...... how would you understand the struggle. Referring back to the talon mage. The developers didnt nerf it. Hence, then reason they probably made a new cap. Also, they made leveling super easy. I capped a mage in like 3-5 hours. With roughly 30 plat. L1-85. And in fact i had an int mage. I also used it more often then you would think. You dont think i complained to others saying dex set is boring? Or complaing on forums how int set is still weak? And how bird was op? Because im pretty sure i did......

[Xyzther]

When I see a forum post by Will my heart rate always doubles

[Terrordon]

Hi, im back on forums and ign is Draining now. Mages are underpowered in the form on heal wise and mana pool wise. With damage output from mages, it's balanced but in terms of defence, we have none. I have played pvp from 56 cap and I can say I have a lot of experience in pvp being in Unity, Rated M and now Family. I have tried and tested all combos on a Rhino, but they out-heal and out-damage. Fighting bears is almost as difficult. With the current mana pool provided, a slash, and it's all gone. Mana shield should atleast take 3 skills hits (including auto) before its depleted. With the heal option, theres not much output. The heal is just good enough to negate debuffs, but in terms of 'Healing' its terrible. Mages need atleast a mana pool buff OR a heal output buff

[Sheugokin]

Mymystalmage, I was waiting for this day to come. Prior with the dex mages, they required no skill. I'll admit that this cap isn't much different, but it forces you to adapt to a different playstyle to beat rhinos, bears, and birds. Honestly, I suggest just sucking it up and trying different combos.

Personally, I've done quite well against most of every class. Most individual birds rely on dodge to win; bears you kite; rhinos are a bit OP I can agree; and mages are a skill on skill matchup.

Maybe consider revising your strategies before coming on forums to berate Cinco.

[Mymysticalmage]

How bout this. If mage is sooooo good. How bout you guys make a video playong other pros like chao, cold, zoro. Your skill level maybe similar to theirs yet. Your most likely going to lose. As for the others. Who dont play mage. Your tips are irrelevant to me. But please. Show me how good mage is.

[XghostzX]

When I see a forum post by Will my heart rate always doubles

Oh darling, stop it you ;)

[Waug]

You all are, infect, lacking essential logics.
Umm what?


But hey, anytime Cold gets roasted I'm all ears.
I've no intention to 'roast' anybody specially to someone who is not provoking or what ever the right term is, at least in my presence, cold is kinda that & gentle most of the time, though sometime ego-full, last time when was being ego-full to me, I made a vid the other day. Well that different matter but atleast he is NOT harsh or trash talker in general like most of the community.


I love when people who play mage tell me how to play mage when they dont play mage. I didnt really contridict myself. A rhino and bird much much more likely to win. Anyways, you stated one of my problems. The range. Im not saying nerf range. What i am saying is that birds can land 6 skills from a range of 10m+. Birds also have better dodge, and better armor. So, birds have more dmg at 10m+ range then mage does. Mage can only land 3 skills from a range 10m+. Birds can do 600-800 dmg per skill i believe. Correct me if im wrong. Because im pretty sure of im just a bit. Anyways. I added up the mana and the health points of my mage with finam wand and bracer, and eshorts helm and armor. Along with black dragon 3pc. I added them up because mana can be used as health via mana shield. I got a total of 3,308 total health points when ive used mana shield. So, say bird low rolls for every skill they can hit from a range 10 meters +. 600x6 skills = 3600. Not including the dodge factor. Thats 3600 health points leaving mage with only 208 hp. Which they will most likely die to "auto". Heals to me seem like they dont even heal off enough dmg of 1 skill. I dont know the stats on a l100 bird "with gear" but if someone sends me them i will gladly revise. The damage output at a range for birds is way higher than mages. Which is reasonable. But for them to be able to drain or mana and hp at a range 10m+ makes mages kiting useless. Since mage can only land 3 skills at 10m+ when bird can land 6 skills at that range. Not to mention mage will only dodge about 2-4 skills before death occurs when fighting bird. While bird will dodge 5-7 skills if the happens to kill the bird. *note: these are guesstimates* not to mention the delay of the skills mage has. Thus, meaning birds produce 3600-4800 dmg in 6 skills before mage can deal im guessing 1000-1400 dmg in the 3 skills.


Mage vs bear: bear can nuke the mana shield in 1 skill. I seen above someone told me to use fire heal vs bears. Bears also have much much better dodge then mage. This is a terrible suggestion. 1. Because bear would likely dodge fire. And 2. Because, they will hit you with pull and nuke you before you can use fire. 3. Heal doesnt stop pull. So even if you do hit fire before they hit pull. This would have to be at exactly 12 and have to knock them out of 12. So they waste the skill. You would have to stay exactly in 12m and then go back out of range. Thats if you dont get hit by hell svream or pull. Very unlikey. Im not going any further because im sure you dont play mage. Anyways, killing a bear that knows what they are doing such as chao, or sao no matter how good you at mage you are is practically impossible 1v1. Simply because they can pull you in and nuke your mana shield in one skill then nuke ur hp away in 2-4 skills.

Mage vs rhino: rhino needs nerfed in general. But they are killable. With alot of luck.

Mage vs fox: havent played vs fox yet. No comments.

Mage in general: mage has the least amount of health then any of the classes (not sure about fox). They also have the least amount of armor.

Conclusion: health points and mana are so low is honestly a joke. However, this can obviously be fixed. All the thing listed above can simply be combated by giving mage 1. A slight buff in health points. At least 2700 health points need to be added. This would include just health points. No mana or armor buffs. 2. You could buff strictly mana by giving us atleast a 2k buff in mana. But the best option. And what is really needed is option 3. Buff both mana and health. Tweaks would probably be necessary for this one. But i was thinking +500-700hp and buff mana 1300-1400. Or instead of buffing hp. You developers could buff heal by 10%-20%. Any of these would help.



Glad atleast you TRIED to talk in a factual way. That further proves what I said, you go straight to a bird and both delivers their skills. No need to go through your numbers, you can't beat a decent bird in a straight forward fight in general, but that doesn't mean mages are under powered, you've your advantages too, in fact many advantages, but you never tried to understand or learn it TBH, Mage is the best class for kitting & it's hard to kite a mage. When I say range play I don't mean that just using skills at proper range, it's way much more than that. Well I've to teach all that without getting smallest credit. So actually all this worthless to me. Good luck with all this. Oh well why I'm talking this is age where silly mages think they gonna do well just like OP phase without proper kiting, if a mage win without proper kitting, it's hilariously overpowered.

Stop saying mage vs bird/bear/rhino say me vs bird /bear/rhino LOL that's where u struggle ur problem. You're taking everything for granted. OP phase of mages - taken for granted, all these helpful comments - taken for granted. They don't need to provide useful comments, also you demanding that now players should waste their time more and make vids to prove their point, hilarious and GL on that.

And as for the tanks. I already pointed the problem with proper solution.


How bout this. If mage is sooooo good. How bout you guys make a video playong other pros like chao, cold, zoro. Your skill level maybe similar to theirs yet. Your most likely going to lose. As for the others. Who dont play mage. Your tips are irrelevant to me. But please. Show me how good mage is.

[Mymysticalmage]

Umm what?


I've no intention to 'roast' anybody specially to someone who is not provoking or what ever the right term is, at least in my presence, cold is kinda that & gentle most of the time, though sometime ego-full, last time when was being ego-full to me, I made a vid the other day. Well that different matter but atleast he is NOT harsh or trash talker in general like most of the community.



Glad atleast you TRIED to talk in a factual way. That further proves what I said, you go straight to a bird and both delivers their skills. No need to go through your numbers, you can't beat a decent bird in a straight forward fight in general, but that doesn't mean mages are under powered, you've your advantages too, in fact many advantages, but you never tried to understand or learn it TBH, Mage is the best class for kitting & it's hard to kite a mage. When I say range play I don't mean that just using skills at proper range, it's way much more than that. Well I've to teach all that without getting smallest credit. So actually all this worthless to me. Good luck with all this. Oh well why I'm talking this is age where silly mages think they gonna do well just like OP phase without proper kiting, if a mage win without proper kitting, it's hilariously overpowered.

Stop saying mage vs bird/bear/rhino say me vs bird /bear/rhino LOL that's where u struggle ur problem. You're taking everything for granted. OP phase of mages - taken for granted, all these helpful comments - taken for granted. They don't need to provide useful comments, also you demanding that now players should waste their time more and make vids to prove their point, hilarious and GL on that.

And as for the tanks. I already pointed the problem with proper solution.

Play mage then come speak to me about how good or bad it is. Thanks for your time ;)

[Jilsponie]

I love that people on this thread i see lose to Mymysticalmag on a regular basis... are trying to tell him how to play. No joke that's hilarious lol

[IiRose]

Hi Mymysticalmag!

You're right to argue that mage is weak in terms of 1v1. We do need a larger heal and maybe a bit more armor and mana. However, we make up for it with our dodge factor. You forget that mages shouldn't have 40+ dodge. Yes, the other classes have far more dodge. But once you cross 40 dodge, it's basically the same sense of chance for a dodge. So that 100 dodge that other classes have, is useless and actually quite excessive.

As for rhinos, they can nuke you, but you have the skills to fight them as well. Fire, icestorm, frostbite, and weakness all destroy rhinos. It's unlikely that they'll dodge all 4 of these skills. As for bears, I've beaten many bears in 1v1 and even in ffa. The only one I'd lost to in a fair game is Crash. The score was 10:8. Crash is one of the best bears in game and I only lost by 2. A win or loss by 2 could easily be justified by luck and could go either way. You complain that bears can nuke mages but mages can't nuke bears. Just because a bear is a tank doesn't mean it can't do damage. If you look at other games for example, if a mage/support character is caught by the tank or a melee assassin/warrior it dies. It's the same in this game. Moving on to birds, I do agree the win rate is far less than you'd win against a rhino or bear, but it's doable. You'll most likely lose 1v1 against birds as I do too. This does not mean you can't win at all. Sometimes I only need to use drain fire to kill a bird. Then sometimes I use all my skills and the bird still lives with nearly full health. However, birds have been shredded past caps before when mages have been op. I never actively played 80 cap. But bird was unplayable even more so at that cap than mage at this cap. It's just a flow. Each class dominates at different times.

Additionally, in terms of team play, mages still do well. In team play, mages are still vital in order to win. I was one of the very few if at all the only one to be int at level 85 that mained as int mage. I started in 2010 at the level 50 cap. I've been int at every cap. I understand your position. You main mage too. You want a fighting chance like I would. Unfortunately, it's something that we all have to accept. There have been caps we have dominated and caps we haven't. It's just the flow of the game. There's nothing you can do except to deal with it and get better.

[Jilsponie]

Hi Mymysticalmag!

You're right to argue that mage is weak in terms of 1v1. We do need a larger heal and maybe a bit more armor and mana. However, we make up for it with our dodge factor. You forget that mages shouldn't have 40+ dodge. Yes, the other classes have far more dodge. But once you cross 40 dodge, it's basically the same sense of chance for a dodge. So that 100 dodge that other classes have, is useless and actually quite excessive.

As for rhinos, they can nuke you, but you have the skills to fight them as well. Fire, icestorm, frostbite, and weakness all destroy rhinos. It's unlikely that they'll dodge all 4 of these skills. As for bears, I've beaten many bears in 1v1 and even in ffa. The only one I'd lost to in a fair game is Crash. The score was 10:8. Crash is one of the best bears in game and I only lost by 2. A win or loss by 2 could easily be justified by luck and could go either way. You complain that bears can nuke mages but mages can't nuke bears. Just because a bear is a tank doesn't mean it can't do damage. If you look at other games for example, if a mage/support character is caught by the tank or a melee assassin/warrior it dies. It's the same in this game. Moving on to birds, I do agree the win rate is far less than you'd win against a rhino or bear, but it's doable. You'll most likely lose 1v1 against birds as I do too. This does not mean you can't win at all. Sometimes I only need to use drain fire to kill a bird. Then sometimes I use all my skills and the bird still lives with nearly full health. However, birds have been shredded past caps before when mages have been op. I never actively played 80 cap. But bird was unplayable even more so at that cap than mage at this cap. It's just a flow. Each class dominates at different times.

Additionally, in terms of team play, mages still do well. In team play, mages are still vital in order to win. I was one of the very few if at all the only one to be int at level 85 that mained as int mage. I started in 2010 at the level 50 cap. I've been int at every cap. I understand your position. You main mage too. You want a fighting chance like I would. Unfortunately, it's something that we all have to accept. There have been caps we have dominated and caps we haven't. It's just the flow of the game. There's nothing you can do except to deal with it and get better.

Good thoughts that all work on paper...
Unfortunately rhino has the buff guardian, so for the first 8 seconds they are immune to debuffs such as weakness and frost.

[Mymysticalmage]

Hi Mymysticalmag!

You're right to argue that mage is weak in terms of 1v1. We do need a larger heal and maybe a bit more armor and mana. However, we make up for it with our dodge factor. You forget that mages shouldn't have 40+ dodge. Yes, the other classes have far more dodge. But once you cross 40 dodge, it's basically the same sense of chance for a dodge. So that 100 dodge that other classes have, is useless and actually quite excessive.

As for rhinos, they can nuke you, but you have the skills to fight them as well. Fire, icestorm, frostbite, and weakness all destroy rhinos. It's unlikely that they'll dodge all 4 of these skills. As for bears, I've beaten many bears in 1v1 and even in ffa. The only one I'd lost to in a fair game is Crash. The score was 10:8. Crash is one of the best bears in game and I only lost by 2. A win or loss by 2 could easily be justified by luck and could go either way. You complain that bears can nuke mages but mages can't nuke bears. Just because a bear is a tank doesn't mean it can't do damage. If you look at other games for example, if a mage/support character is caught by the tank or a melee assassin/warrior it dies. It's the same in this game. Moving on to birds, I do agree the win rate is far less than you'd win against a rhino or bear, but it's doable. You'll most likely lose 1v1 against birds as I do too. This does not mean you can't win at all. Sometimes I only need to use drain fire to kill a bird. Then sometimes I use all my skills and the bird still lives with nearly full health. However, birds have been shredded past caps before when mages have been op. I never actively played 80 cap. But bird was unplayable even more so at that cap than mage at this cap. It's just a flow. Each class dominates at different times.

Additionally, in terms of team play, mages still do well. In team play, mages are still vital in order to win. I was one of the very few if at all the only one to be int at level 85 that mained as int mage. I started in 2010 at the level 50 cap. I've been int at every cap. I understand your position. You main mage too. You want a fighting chance like I would. Unfortunately, it's something that we all have to accept. There have been caps we have dominated and caps we haven't. It's just the flow of the game. There's nothing you can do except to deal with it and get better.

Good so you agree that mage needs buffed. No more needs to be said. Thank you :)

[Cinco]

What a wonderful read! Full of insight :-)