View Full Version : Lowering the dodge cap is really necessary!!!
Dodge is being pretty much big decisive factor of PvP. It's so much that nearly half of the time, dodge streak can be seen till the end of a 1-1 no tank fight.
Since dodge won't be lowered from items neither dodge debuffs will be changed in an way that dodge debuff won't get dodged itself, it's really important to lower dodge cap and it's the first and foremost task to do. We can lower the dodge cap also because it will slightly tone down OP tanks, it may require to reduce hit% of rhinos cause they seems to have no disadvantages which a tank class should have. But dodge being such a curtain, unless you lower, its not clearly visible the current situation although it seems to have no more serious issue.
And also if possible dodge debuffs of all classes should be buffed only in terms of dodge debuff percentage, because single dodge debuff is useless in term of dodge debuff, can't breach the number for ex 90(actual dodge)-40(dodge debuff)= 50 (pretty rough) still high or close to dodge cap rendering it worthless.
Jilsponie
08-17-2017, 12:56 PM
No.... just no. Pvp is as close to being balanced as I've seen it since 77 cap. A buff to mage mana and heal and perhaps less cooldown time for fox evasion and it would be about perfect. Your problem is your internet connection, not the dodge cap
Magic Sword
08-19-2017, 06:47 PM
as long as we keep the DOGE CAP at 69%
163241
No.... just no. Pvp is as close to being balanced as I've seen it since 77 cap.
This is a compliment, I've happy that the compliment is coming from a opposite side. If you can't get that how it's a compliment, don't ask, just rethink.
Your problem is your internet connection, not the dodge cap
The problem is that people thinks I talk about MY PROBLEMS in forums just the way they do, rather imagine it like greater and broader good of endgame pvp.
Slight about 77 cap - You compared it well, that was the age of STR dominance, as it's now but for different reasons. Also happy that you recovered from the black hole of 'mage underpowered'
Jilsponie
08-24-2017, 03:31 PM
This is a compliment, I've happy that the compliment is coming from a opposite side. If you can't get that how it's a compliment, don't ask, just rethink.
The problem is that people thinks I talk about MY PROBLEMS in forums just the way they do, rather imagine it like greater and broader good of endgame pvp.
Slight about 77 cap - You compared it well, that was the age of STR dominance, as it's now but for different reasons. Also happy that you recovered from the black hole of 'mage underpowered'
Dex beat str 77 cap... just like a good dex player beats str now... it's hard for you to tell because your internet is horrible. I went through your YouTube channel looking for green ping and it was non-existent. You really can't give an accurate account of the gameplay without a better connection. You don't know if anything needs tweaked because your not experiencing the game as it is. Your experiencing it as your connection speeds allow...
If you have gone through my vids, then you wouldn't say this, because better than those vids never existed nor will exist in PL. For the rest, probably I understand abit more about game, server, ping and resources that used in a game than you do and the whole PL. Just saying ping gonna determine the game mechanics the way you described, is not true but some aspects is greatly dependent on ping and that never has been discussed in my original post.
Jilsponie
08-25-2017, 12:05 PM
If you have gone through my vids, then you wouldn't say this, because better than those vids never existed nor will exist in PL. For the rest, probably I understand abit more about game, server, ping and resources that used in a game than you do and the whole PL. Just saying ping gonna determine the game mechanics the way you described, is not true but some aspects is greatly dependent on ping and that never has been discussed in my original post.
This post shows your arrogance... you litterly just said you know more about the game mechanics then the developers themselves. Or do you even realize that? Perhaps the problem is also bad English?
Lol, not even used the term 'developer' in entire post.
Arrogance, right? If you really need to know that what is arrogance you should read back your own posts in 'mage' underpowered thread. Lol.
Kurvy
08-27-2017, 03:20 PM
I dont agree lowering dodge cap, would only make bears and rhinos more overpowered
Jilsponie
08-27-2017, 07:39 PM
Lol, not even used the term 'developer' in entire post.
Arrogance, right? If you really need to know that what is arrogance you should read back your own posts in 'mage' underpowered thread. Lol.
Oh I'm sorry, you said the whole pl... i figured they were part of the game...
Mothwing
09-02-2017, 01:04 AM
No.... just no. Pvp is as close to being balanced as I've seen it since 77 cap. A buff to mage mana and heal and perhaps less cooldown time for fox evasion and it would be about perfect. Your problem is your internet connection, not the dodge cap
Uh, no. The dodge is definitely an issue. Mages should not have over 40 base dodge.
There's literally 0 skill involved in this game now. You can know ranges better than anyone and still lose because they dodge all of your attacks. Not balanced or fun, which is why I went to Brawl Stars (*cough* STS deleted my post about it).
Arvoh
09-02-2017, 08:31 PM
Uh, no. The dodge is definitely an issue. Mages should not have over 40 base dodge.
There's literally 0 skill involved in this game now. You can know ranges better than anyone and still lose because they dodge all of your attacks.
IKR. Doesnt happen to me that much but sometimes the dodge can be really ridiculous lol, that's why nowadays i usually only play in teams of 2-2 or 3-3, just because the dodge can have crazy streaks and can sometimes be a decisive factor in 1-1. I would be ok with a decrease in the dodge cap. Although doing that would also mean adjusting other things like hit% and what not so i doubt it'll happen..
Jilsponie
09-03-2017, 07:48 AM
Uh, no. The dodge is definitely an issue. Mages should not have over 40 base dodge.
There's literally 0 skill involved in this game now. You can know ranges better than anyone and still lose because they dodge all of your attacks. Not balanced or fun, which is why I went to Brawl Stars (*cough* STS deleted my post about it).
That is a base dodge problem tho... not a dodge cap problem. And it's really just a problem mage vs mage. Yes mage has a higher base dodge than previous caps, i assume it's that way to help make up for weaker heals.... mages have always been able to heal to full hp with 1 or 2 heals. If dodge is removed from mage, mage vs mage fights will be more skill based, but get ready for beckon stomp deaths all day.
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That is a base dodge problem tho... not a dodge cap problem. And it's really just a problem mage vs mage. Yes mage has a higher base dodge than previous caps, i assume it's that way to help make up for weaker heals.... mages have always been able to heal to full hp with 1 or 2 heals. If dodge is removed from mage, mage vs mage fights will be more skill based, but get ready for beckon stomp deaths all day.
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Says someone who quit playing mage and gone to rhino & trying to protect op class, I didn't say it earlier because, I was trying to reply with facts and trying to keep it viable discussion but then, it's kinda repetitive the same things now, that already have been said here and the 'mage' underpowered thread.
When dodge cap is lowered, it won't be lowered for any particular class say - mage, it wil be lowered from that bear too, so there's nothing much changing IN THAT sense UNLESS, you're THAT kinda mage, JUST AS REFLECTED in your sentence, who totally DEPENDENT ON THAT DODGE where the mage got saved from the beckon, just again it showed, you need to learn mage :)
Again, dodge is more critical fact for a tank, not SHOULD BE critical for a mage at all, so when dodge cap is being lowered, it actually beneficial for non tank class eg mage and a bit harmful for op tank classes, that's the point of balance too. So that's a MISCONCEPTION that it will be worse for mage in a mage vs bear.
Jilsponie
09-03-2017, 10:15 AM
Says someone who quit playing mage and gone to rhino & trying to protect op class, I didn't say it earlier because, I was trying to reply with facts and trying to keep it viable discussion but then, it's kinda repetitive the same things now, that already have been said here and the 'mage' underpowered thread.
When dodge cap is lowered, it won't be lowered for any particular class say - mage, it wil be lowered from that bear too, so there's nothing much changing IN THAT sense UNLESS, you're THAT kinda mage, JUST AS REFLECTED in your sentence, who totally DEPENDENT ON THAT DODGE where the mage got saved from the beckon, just again it showed, you need to learn mage :)
Again, dodge is more critical fact for a tank, not SHOULD BE critical for a mage at all, so when dodge cap is being lowered, it actually beneficial for non tank class eg mage and a bit harmful for op tank classes, that's the point of balance too. So that's a MISCONCEPTION that it will be worse for mage in a mage vs bear.When i use bird i beat you just the same... i still play mage as well, someone is borrowing my bracer atm... don't cry about op classes when you lose the same score to the same class as you.
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When i use bird i beat you just the same... i still play mage as well, someone is borrowing my bracer atm... don't cry about op classes when you lose the same score to the same class as you.
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I don't comment on dreams :)
keep dreaming, it's beautiful.
And for "cry about op classes" -
Good thoughts that all work on paper...
Unfortunately rhino has the buff guardian, so for the first 8 seconds they are immune to debuffs such as weakness and frost.
From the thread - http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?402005-Mage/page3
Hypocrisy at it's best.
And further PROVED that how the perspective changed drastically since you changed the class.
Mymysticalmage
09-03-2017, 06:37 PM
When i use bird i beat you just the same... i still play mage as well, someone is borrowing my bracer atm... don't cry about op classes when you lose the same score to the same class as you.
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Why even argue with waug? You there is no point in it. Whatever he says is true. He is never wrong. He is never beaten. He is the best in the game bro. He never dies because of lag. Look at how powerful he made mage.
*sarcasm intended*
Congeniality
09-03-2017, 08:07 PM
Dodge is the only reason fox is relevant in FFA... If i get lucky and dodge 4-5 shots in a row, I can get double and triple kills (Although that is very rare). If the dodge cap was lowered, there would need to be complete overhaul of the currently less desirable classes (fox and mage). And a nerf to bear damage so they they cant abuse the lower dodge by beckon stomping like 76.... :D
EDIT: Spelled relevant as "relevent" XD
Duckypowerz
09-03-2017, 10:42 PM
Another issue about dodge is sts already tried fixing it in lower lvls by removing dodge from sets Along with a dmg nerf. This ruined certain sets and classes and made str gear so op it's saddening. These nerfs made items like esb/ phantom angle sets and other sets that were decent because of dodge worthless where str sets such a beast retained dodge making any str char overpowered ruining pvp. I relize I gave examples of 66-71 pvp which is currently dead but what some of you are asking for at 100 will be exactly what happend that level. Another reason was an unnecessary damage nerf that made str chars overpowered also. These nerfs were implemented during 85 cap and are still around if it was not for the no level restrictions I'm sure people would see these negative changes and not want to see it happen to an active level that is for the most part already balanced(100).
Mothwing
09-04-2017, 12:54 AM
The horse is legitimately a pulp at this point guys. Dolloway made one of the best threads I've ever seen on this topic which pretty much addresses dodge perfectly and how it can be fixed.
The problem isn't dodge. It's the amount of dodge that each class has at this point. Like I already stated, Mages (a support class) should not have over 40 base dodge. That's ridiculous.
Sure, dodge has it's place in the game. Birds, bears, and foxes rely heavily on it; but at this point it's so out of proportion it's not even funny.
Dodge is the only reason fox is relevant in FFA... If i get lucky and dodge 4-5 shots in a row, I can get double and triple kills (Although that is very rare). If the dodge cap was lowered, there would need to be complete overhaul of the currently less desirable classes (fox and mage). And a nerf to bear damage so they they cant abuse the lower dodge by beckon stomping like 76.... :D
EDIT: Spelled relevant as "relevent" XD
That's not the solution that fox sometime dodge and that those times it can win, slight buff is the solution though as I said im not favor of significantly buffing it.
Another issue about dodge is sts already tried fixing it in lower lvls by removing dodge from sets Along with a dmg nerf. This ruined certain sets and classes and made str gear so op it's saddening. These nerfs made items like esb/ phantom angle sets and other sets that were decent because of dodge worthless where str sets such a beast retained dodge making any str char overpowered ruining pvp. I relize I gave examples of 66-71 pvp which is currently dead but what some of you are asking for at 100 will be exactly what happend that level. Another reason was an unnecessary damage nerf that made str chars overpowered also. These nerfs were implemented during 85 cap and are still around if it was not for the no level restrictions I'm sure people would see these negative changes and not want to see it happen to an active level that is for the most part already balanced(100).
If I didn't forget, Dodge was not nerfed from ANY ITEM, actually always it was handled globally, and global dodge cap was introduced / reduced significantly and that's still there everywhere, global dodge nerf actually nerfed str classes, IDK what r u talking about :)
The horse is legitimately a pulp at this point guys. Dolloway made one of the best threads I've ever seen on this topic which pretty much addresses dodge perfectly and how it can be fixed.
The problem isn't dodge. It's the amount of dodge that each class has at this point. Like I already stated, Mages (a support class) should not have over 40 base dodge. That's ridiculous.
Sure, dodge has it's place in the game. Birds, bears, and foxes rely heavily on it; but at this point it's so out of proportion it's not even funny.
The whole point of dodge cap reduction, as I have been there always since the changes, is that NO OTHER WAY it will be handled, It was not suggested that there should be a global dodge cap, atleast not by me, Dodge reduction from items and sets was preferred but probably it was much easy to do, that's why dodge cap was in action if not already there at higher value.
So the the suggestion is just accordingly that if we need dodge reduction, there's ONLY ONE WAY now, that is dodge cap reduction.
Duckypowerz
09-04-2017, 02:28 PM
That's not the solution that fox sometime dodge and that those times it can win, slight buff is the solution though as I said im not favor of significantly buffing it.
If I didn't forget, Dodge was not nerfed from ANY ITEM, actually always it was handled globally, and global dodge cap was introduced / reduced significantly and that's still there everywhere, global dodge nerf actually nerfed str classes, IDK what r u talking about :)
The whole point of dodge cap reduction, as I have been there always since the changes, is that NO OTHER WAY it will be handled, It was not suggested that there should be a global dodge cap, atleast not by me, Dodge reduction from items and sets was preferred but probably it was much easy to do, that's why dodge cap was in action if not already there at higher value.
So the the suggestion is just accordingly that if we need dodge reduction, there's ONLY ONE WAY now, that is dodge cap reduction.
The nerfs they implemented might have been intended to weaken str but it only made it stronger if you don't believe me feel free to play 71 where almost everyone is using beast set because of how overpowered it is after the nerf. And they removed dodge from set like phantom used to get 20ish and now has 7 it completely ruined the set as well as angel int and dex sets. If you don't believe from what I said just give it a try and you will lol
The nerfs they implemented might have been intended to weaken str but it only made it stronger if you don't believe me feel free to play 71 where almost everyone is using beast set because of how overpowered it is after the nerf. And they removed dodge from set like phantom used to get 20ish and now has 7 it completely ruined the set as well as angel int and dex sets. If you don't believe from what I said just give it a try and you will lol
Dodge was not nerfed from any item, Dodge cap was implemented (safer to say reduced significantly, if it was there at high values)
Lets say a set has a dodge 60 and another set has a dodge 80, now b4 dodge cap implementation, the second set has 20 more dodge.
But after dodge cap implementation (Lets assume that dodge cap is 50) both the sets WILL HAVE SAME PRACTICAL DODGE unless we consider dodge debuff here that's the simple explanation of dodge cap, because it capped at 50 so any value greater than that is just obsolete other than getting dodge debuffed. Also you have to consider dodge buff in it.
So any set /class that had high dodge values suffered most after dodge cap implementation. BUT AT ENDGAME there're measures to counter the situation and tank classes were given more armor to compensate.
I'm not disagreeing that dodge cap changed various aspect of low level pvp but ENDGAME IS DIFFERENT the reason is that there have been lot of changes to encounter such situations but no other level got that EXCEPT endgame.
Jilsponie
09-05-2017, 09:19 AM
The nerfs they implemented might have been intended to weaken str but it only made it stronger if you don't believe me feel free to play 71 where almost everyone is using beast set because of how overpowered it is after the nerf. And they removed dodge from set like phantom used to get 20ish and now has 7 it completely ruined the set as well as angel int and dex sets. If you don't believe from what I said just give it a try and you will lolDon't waste your time arguing with waug... he is right even when he is wrong... example: dodge was drastically nerfed on all 66-70 int and dex gear. We all see it, we all noticed, it was announced on forums. He reiterates dodge was not nerfed on any items....
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Don't waste your time arguing with waug... he is right even when he is wrong... example: dodge was drastically nerfed on all 66-70 int and dex gear. We all see it, we all noticed, it was announced on forums. He reiterates dodge was not nerfed on any items....
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We're ofc talking about the post-dodgapocalypses phase since when the dodge cap was introduced (saying again to make it perfect, or reduced significantly) and if you think that, nope after that phase, dodge WAS NERFED FROM items and IT'S EVEN ON announcement, that's pretty nice, you should simply post the link here, right? do it, I've to agree, there's no other way around.
Jilsponie
09-05-2017, 11:02 AM
We're ofc talking about the post-dodgapocalypses phase since when the dodge cap was introduced (saying again to make it perfect, or reduced significantly) and if you think that, nope after that phase, dodge WAS NERFED FROM items and IT'S EVEN ON announcement, that's pretty nice, you should simply post the link here, right? do it, I've to agree, there's no other way around.
It says it right here... but i probably misunderstand right? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170905/25a06dd34a71d8505f5025668659f981.jpg
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It says it right here... but i probably misunderstand right? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170905/25a06dd34a71d8505f5025668659f981.jpg
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Yep, you misunderstood, but this time I won't refer this as ur fault, because it was never refereed as dodge cap, but after sometime it was called such officially. This is the time when dodge cap was effective the way we know today, although it was latter changed.
Even if it still UN-digestable for you, just focus on the term "across board".
Jilsponie
09-05-2017, 11:58 AM
Yep, you misunderstood, but this time I won't refer this as ur fault, because it was never refereed as dodge cap, but after sometime it was called such officially. This is the time when dodge cap was effective the way we know today, although it was latter changed.
Even if it still UN-digestable for you, just focus on the term "across board".That doesn't make sense... and no it was referring to the gear... the dodge cap was changed later. The 2 are completely different and always have been... this is what i meant when i said "your always right, even when your wrong" i mean common yo it even specifically says items and sets...
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That doesn't make sense... and no it was referring to the gear... the dodge cap was changed later. The 2 are completely different and always have been... this is what i meant when i said "your always right, even when your wrong" i mean common yo it even specifically says items and sets...
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As said dodge wasn't nerfed from each and every item, it was handled globally, since dodgpocalypse. Make sense?
Learn the fact & Get over it.
Jilsponie
09-05-2017, 03:27 PM
As said dodge wasn't nerfed from each and every item, it was handled globally, since dodgpocalypse. Make sense?
Learn the fact & Get over it.The screenshot i posted says the exact opposite of what you are saying... I'm done
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Yep, done.
Dodge cap has been reduced, thanks everyone, for the support guys.
Topic closed, for now, who knows :)
bye.
Mymysticalmage
09-05-2017, 11:13 PM
The screenshot i posted says the exact opposite of what you are saying... I'm donie
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Havent you learned that what waug says goes? He wanted mage nerfed. It got nerfed. I make a thread with multiple people agreeing that mage needs buffed. It doesnt get buffed. He makes a thread where he wants dodge cap lowered. No one agrees that it needs to be lowered. And what happens? it gets lowered. Clearly the developers listen to whats not needed over what is needed. Or maybe its just cause of his forum popularity. Who knows.......
Dolloway
09-05-2017, 11:44 PM
Cinco is a strange man who makes changes on the fly depending on how he's feeling that day :)
Loco.