The efficacy of armor as you advance

[Snakespeare]

I have been trying to figure out why the game gets so discouraging for solo players like me after a certain level. I made some rash statements in chat, but this morning I did some testing.

GRANTED, this game is not intended for solo play. It's a group game. That's what one of the Ms in MMO stands for. However, I do play solo because PUGs are horrible (a different topic) and I only get about 45 minutes a day, if I choose to use my commute for such frivolity.

So here are some statistics I garnered, feel free to add your own. My conclusion is that, at higher levels, elixirs are required to reflect the play experience of the lower levels.

method: taking my twinks into their "next level" (i.e. a level 20 in fathom crypt I).

level 1 archer in FH1 (armor 3/dodge 1), after 20 hits from a fire axe zombie, 1/3rd of his hp down.

level 10 archer in DF1 (armor 19/dodge 3), after 20 hits his xp is down 1/2

level 15 tank in BC1 (forest chain armor 27/dodge 4), after 20 hits her xp is down 1/3rd

level 20 paladin in FC1 (armor 39/dodge 5), negligible damage after 20 hits

level 25 tank in LE1 (armor w/ vyx 51/dodge 8), negligible damage after 20 hits even from the dude with the big 2-h sword

level 30 tank in AS1 (iceberg armor 74/dodge 10), again negligible after 20 hits

so... that's the lower levels. I have a level 35 mage twink that I took in AO1 but she only had 30 armor and 5 dodge, being a mage. I also didn't count the full onyx level 25 mage in LE1 who dies after 5 hits. full onyx gave only 21 armor. basically, mages have to deal a lot of damage to compensate for taking so much, and I was not hitting back.

so... on to the higher levels where the xp is very slow and the damage you can cause is reduced... amazingly, the damage you take is increased

level 50 paladin in BS1 (armor 72!!!/dodge 10) dies from 3 shots from an archer.

level 52 tank, however, uses BS gear (armor 136/dodge 18) and is down half after 20 hits from an archer

I conclude, therefore, that "next level" players in BS are at a disadvantage until they acquire at least orange gear from the map itself. And non-tanks need 2x tanker ale to have a play experience that is similar to the game as they knew it at lower levels.

level 55 archer in NC1 (BS pink armor 85/dodge 6) dies after 7 hits from a headphone zombie. Again, at least a 2x tanker ale is necessary to simulate the play experience of the previous levels.

Overall, I conclude that FOR SOLO PLAY tanker ale is needed by non-tanks in BS and NC, the free elixir is a 5 minute demonstration of this fact. I have used the gold 1.5x elixirs also and find them adequate for solo play, but have a lot of pots as always.

It's free to play, and you CAN do it with gold elixirs, but the game is certainly set up to encourage elixir usage at higher levels. (As a side note, the XP you need scales as you advance which is also a detriment to solo play since the XP in PUGs comes in about 5 times as fast. This similarly causes a need for xp elixirs which the free elixir effectively demonstrates, too.)

I didn't include boss fights because that's not really the topic. This is about elixir need and armor efficacy versus mobs at high levels.

So that's it. It's not a solo game, but if you want to play solo, expect to use elixirs at the high levels. Otherwise, just play your twinks.

[Mageprodigy]

Nice work!

[CrimsonTider]

Good to look at this on paper. I have always wondered how increased difficulty affects old level armor and vice versa. Appreciate the time you put into this!

[JaytB]

Nice breakdown and interesting read! :)

[drewcapu]

When you get to Nuri, even in groups you need a lot of armor.

You can be a bird with BS Pink sets and still have <100 armor, which isn't nearly enough once aggro is taken.

You'll always see the hardcore/plat users who will always race to level cap with 1-3 (or more!) toons. Anybody who rides on the coattails of plat users will level as much as they can along side those friends. For this group, armor isn't normally an issue due to juiced up players having no problem taking aggro.

After that tier, you'll get some of the non-plat users. They'll use their free elxir to get one or two runs in and maybe try to do a few more runs afterwards, but get discouraged if their friends aren't on or can't find a "good run". Nuri Level Cap and future level caps for this tier are slim. For this group, as long as one or two revvers are around, they learn to just get used to dying a lot.

As new level caps are introduced, the advancement curve for lower levels have been relaxed a little bit. This helps the players who started PL a bit late. I haven't seen too many plat elixir users while leveling my L20s and L30s twinks. For most "current generation" players, though, I doubt level cap is a goal. The games I join in AO and down with my leveling twinks are a lot more fun and relaxed than any of the Nuri runs I get into, regardless of whether or not anybody is on an elixir. All 3 of my mains (L56-57) are using top end BS pinks except where the rare (low level farmed) Nuri pink is an upgrade. Except for my bear, my mains can easily succumb to the lack of high enough armor any time they get aggro, even with well timed pot-spamming. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining/complaining. I just don't necessarily see it as "fun" gameplay. Nevermind the whole XP subject. (I can chime in on that along with you, Snake, if you ever decide to start a topic on it based on what you've said in chatbox.) For me, Level Cap isn't a goal. The look of the SoH, to be frank, just doesn't strike me as something I *need* to get.

For me, what would make future campaigns "fun":
-Maps that take around, but no more, than 5 minutes to complete (kill all). In other words, Symphony is way too long for those groups that are coming fresh out of BS and not using elixirs.
-Mobs that don't kill you in one or two shots if you are using at least decent gear from the previous campaign.
-Bosses/Mini-bosses that might be tougher to kill, but give a lot more experience. Enough to where "xp runs" might think twice for skipping these guys. This can be scaled down for previous campaigns also.
-Moar Vyxnaar-style random spawns with uber loot!

[noobmigo]

When we did some twinking work, here were some of our theories:

We believed that the higher level you went, the more effective armor was, or something like that.
I can't recall all of it, it was two months ago.

[Duped]

This thread pretty much nails what the game has become to me. More work than fun. The new levels are more challenging, but the pure grind to level without plat elixirs is difficult now. I would have hit 56 pretty easily had I not leveled 3 toons or spent so much time 51 farming, and I even formed a plan to hit 61 with gold only elixirs on my bear but I just don't have the time to complete it before thanksgiving now.

If you don't skip bosses (when levelling to an end cap encourages this ie only 1xp per kill on boss but substantial time to kill him it also is a turn off to me, because boss kills should be dessert, not veggies!) I've figured it will take about 17-20 hours to level from 55-60, and if you include runs with lions den and nuri's madness, those times will increase. I greatly agree with the suggestions to add xp to bosses and mini bosses and also to reduce the time needed to level. I've got a family and younger children so I know that influences the time I have available vs. others, but one of my earliest friends in the game quit for the exact reason and he was a junior in HS, the game became a grind to him :/.

[jiroununu]

Solo is my favorite in game. I'm now doing solo painhouse(straight to gustav) only in game. I've done more than 50 runs and got 2glyph pink,2trash pink and some crafting materials. I'm using non-elixir and carrying only 25 pots.
I use demon full int Mage to clear mobs until 18 the switch to my glyph bow set bird to finish gustav. I can finish it in around 12mins. If I have demon bow set I could save another 1min on gustav.
It's huge fun for me and u know u will be reward eventually. I end up know my Mage better lol.
Basically any mele boss u can solo it with bird without being hit once. I've done gurg when lvl50, roach when lvl56,now gustav when lvl61. I can't wait for the mt fang mele boss.

[WhoIsThis]

Disagree that tanker's ale is needed in Sewers. As a level 56 pure int mage with enchanted, I found:

- It is possible to solo the Hideout and Catacombs without (I have done both). Mobs are easy in Hideout; harder in Catacombs, while reverse is true for bosses. Hideout is easy enough that for mobs, all you need is 5 of each pot and can pick up pots along the way, although you're pushing your luck if you want to solo Goldfever with just 25 of each pot IMO (although it can be done).
- Both damage and tank pot are needed for Queen in Stronghold; mobs can be done without, but difficult in fire vent area.
- Coakroach mobs are comparable in difficulty to Catacombs, but boss is very tough to solo. I have soloed boss with bird; others claim to have done it with mage.
- Mobs are easy in Swill Pitz, but boss requires a damage pot due to totem.

[pastrychef]

I use demon full int Mage to clear mobs until 18 the switch to my glyph bow set bird to finish gustav.

I haven't tried yet (I've only done it with my bear), but I'm pretty sure you can kill Gustov with your mage by using a staff and kiting. No need to switch to your bird.

[Snakespeare]

WhoIsThis, as you can see from my OP, I am not talking about being over-leveled. I took toons into each campaign using the best gear from the previous campaign, whenever possible, and they were the level where the campaign starts. So, while what you're saying is true, it misses the point. I went in, did not attack, took up to 20 shots, and reported above my result. If you take a level 50 with AO3 gear into BS1, the birds will kill you in 3 or 4 shots.