Guns vs Staff

[PsychoNuke]

I was testing different builds based on the Dps vs Dmg Thread (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?88373-DPS-vs-Damage-a-detailed-comparison) and I come to see that guns and staff of same level and make have different dps stat as well as different dps to dmg ratio.

I would like to know the reason for guns having a lower dps value, which impacts its dmg attribute as well. Is this the reason people prefer staffs over guns? And can this be balanced in next patch or expansion?


Edit (Update 07/05/2018)
After the current discussion, (more info here (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?425848-About-time-to-close-the-damage-gap-between-bows-and-daggers&p=2844096#post2844096)), the difference between guns and staffs is reduced, though currently the changes are limited to the Spirit weapons that are introduced with the Festerfang expansion.

Even after reducing the gap staffs deliver 6% higher skill damage than guns.
I am curious to know why staffs are kept with higher damage? Why a spread damage weapon is equipped with higher damage compare to a single target weapon? Why they cannot be balanced?

[DalleManden]

I would like this to be balanced, I don't see why there should be this huge difference

[PsychoNuke]

The difference is almost double when base and skill points are spent. I believe its a percentage ratio, so the value seem lower with lower stats but can become really high if you have end game stats.

[DalleManden]

Shame. I guess maybe it's because you can run around with the gun and the shot will auto follow an enemy whilst with a staff you need to be more "in" the fight, although that doesn't quite justify the huge difference, but a small difference would have been justified by that.

[PsychoNuke]

Well if we consider gun's auto aim as a pro then we should also consider that staffs can attack multiple targets in range at the same time. They both have different play styles, so yes reducing dmg does not justify it.

[DalleManden]

Well if we consider gun's auto aim as a pro then we should also consider that staffs can attack multiple targets in range at the same time. They both have different play styles, so yes reducing dmg does not justify it.

Nevertheless I hope this gets fixed for the new expansion :D

[Loloo]

It depends on your playstyle

[Lolifee]

guns do 2x dmg on auto attack. thats why guns are stronger vs single targets, staffs are better against groups
anyways i would use the weapon depending on the proc. you are way stronger with Immo/flame against mobs, than with raw damage.

[PsychoNuke]

Guns do 2x dmg on auto attack.
Not 2x but yes guns do relatively higher damage on auto attack. I did test it after DalleManden approached me with his test results.
And it makes sense as per the dps vs dmg thread:




DPS=Dmg/weapon speed and refers to your auto attack dmg.
Higher speed weapons, in general, will give you a higher DPS but lower Dmg value.
Skill Damage is more important than Auto Attack DMG for a high DMG output mage.



The real concern is to get same damage from skills independent of what weapon is used of same level and make.

[Flamesofanger]

Guns cause they go pew pew pew! also range distance and lower chances of getting hit, helps you save some health potions and protects your kdr! hehe :D

[bandhagen]

I dont know

[PsychoNuke]

Updated OP with the info on changes in gap.

[V i o l e t]

I was testing different builds based on the Dps vs Dmg Thread (https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?88373-DPS-vs-Damage-a-detailed-comparison) and I come to see that guns and staff of same level and make have different dps stat as well as different dps to dmg ratio.

I would like to know the reason for guns having a lower dps value, which impacts its dmg attribute as well. Is this the reason people prefer staffs over guns? And can this be balanced in next patch or expansion?


Even after reducing the gap staffs deliver 6% higher skill damage than guns.
I am curious to know why staffs are kept with higher damage? Why a spread damage weapon is equipped with higher damage compare to a single target weapon? Why they cannot be balanced?

I am in no position to put forward an opinion as I have not yet done enough testing but I am curious about this topic.

Your issue is that staff hits multiple targets (spread damage) and gun is a single target hitter and that skill-damage for staffs is higher than in guns.

But I see no relation between a multiple-target hitting basic attack of a staff mage and skill damage - the number of targets a skill hits is equal for all mages (gun mages and staff mages). It is only in basic attacks that the number of targets differs between gun and staff.

That being said, I am also curious if the basic-attack damage of guns is higher than that of staff. If it is so and guns being auto-aim, I guess things are fine as they are but if basic attacks of staffs are higher, this needs to be explored.

[PsychoNuke]

I am in no position to put forward an opinion as I have not yet done enough testing but I am curious about this topic.

Your issue is that staff hits multiple targets (spread damage) and gun is a single target hitter and that skill-damage for staffs is higher than in guns.

But I see no relation between a multiple-target hitting basic attack of a staff mage and skill damage - the number of targets a skill hits is equal for all mages (gun mages and staff mages). It is only in basic attacks that the number of targets differs between gun and staff.

That being said, I am also curious if the basic-attack damage of guns is higher than that of staff. If it is so and guns being auto-aim, I guess things are fine as they are but if basic attacks of staffs are higher, this needs to be explored.

There are two different aspects:
1) Damage stat from a Staff is higher than the damage stat of a Gun; which makes the skill damage from equipping a Staff higher than a Gun.
2) The auto attack damage of Gun is higher than the Staff but that is a counter for the spread damage from the auto attack of a staff.

[V i o l e t]

There are two different aspects:
1) Damage stat from a Staff is higher than the damage stat of a Gun; which makes the skill damage from equipping a Staff higher than a Gun.
2) The auto attack damage of Gun is higher than the Staff but that is a counter for the spread damage from the auto attack of a staff.

So I am not wrong in assuming that:

The Gun's basic-attack damage is higher than that of a staff. That is a counter to the slightly higher skill damage of staffs I guess.

And the basic-attack being AUTO aim for a gun must be a counter to the staff being able to hit more than one target.

We are even and its fine as it is :P ! Btw I play mage too and would love to see what other mages think about guns and staffs.... or guns n roses.

[Instanthumor]

There are two different aspects:
1) Damage stat from a Staff is higher than the damage stat of a Gun; which makes the skill damage from equipping a Staff higher than a Gun.
2) The auto attack damage of Gun is higher than the Staff but that is a counter for the spread damage from the auto attack of a staff.

You also have to take into consideration that guns have a significantly longer range than staffs do.

[PsychoNuke]

So I am not wrong in assuming that:
The Gun's basic-attack damage is higher than that of a staff. That is a counter to the slightly higher skill damage of staffs I guess.
And the basic-attack being AUTO aim for a gun must be a counter to the staff being able to hit more than one target.


Your assumption is incorrect, you didn't read the 2 points I wrote properly, or you misunderstood them.
Also, to add to that the skill damage difference is 6% on Spirit Gun & Staff. Its higher on previous generation.

[PsychoNuke]

You also have to take into consideration that guns have a significantly longer range than staffs do.

Range and Auto Aim of Gun is countered with armor stat. Staffs have more than 2x armor than Guns.

[wizms]

Hey, now in 2020 what is better gun or staff after many updates? For pvp gun good or staff for lvl 66?for rogues daggers do higher skill dmg, so for mages can skills do more dmg with staff than gun?

[Mitsooos]

Close combat playing with gun always best damage.
I have see many times mages with staff playing from distance is absolutely disaster!
Playing from distance with staff is useless unless you have the staff only for damage and use skill.

[moohian]

Its Always whats our play style is.. thanx guys