Nerf Volta Dagger and reduce proc time period

[Jensmage]

The rate at which a dagger can auto is 0.5x. If 0.5x occurs on a dagger, does it not cause proc to occur more often? The time period at which the proc occurs is long enough so that the proc will occur again because the dagger is 0.5 speed. What it means is it’s impossoble for a mage or bear to survive once a proc is initiated while rhino is utilizing the weapon.

When a rhino utilizes a Volta Dagger set, it’s almost impossible to beat. Reason is:
1) rhino has high armor
2) chasing speed
3) heal
4) debuff
Basically it’s like a mage with better features in a 1v1 environment.

A proc is a nice feature in PvP but he shouldn’t be a major factor in determining who will win. The duration of these procs contribute to the outcome way too much. The time period of these procs should be reduced to minimize the effects.

[Xyzther]

I think the problem isn’t with the dagger, it’s more with rhino. I say leave dagger as it is because if you nerf that, then foxes which are already underpowered are getting even more screwed over. Possibly just make it where the dagger isn’t equippable for rhino. I agree that rhino with dagger is quite strong.

[Jensmage]

I think the problem isn’t with the dagger, it’s more with rhino. I say leave dagger as it is because if you nerf that, then foxes which are already underpowered are getting even more screwed over. Possibly just make it where the dagger isn’t equippable for rhino. I agree that rhino with dagger is quite strong.

Sounds like a good idea. Restrict the dagger from rhino.

[Waug]

Sounds like a good idea. Restrict the dagger from rhino.

This is not gonna happen most probably because then they will have to make sets class-bound like previous cap.

The very first thing I like to see in edngame is that - ALL the procs should be highly nerfed, procs are random and luck based, there are alrdy many luck factors involved in pvp bring such high procs is to make things worse. Procs are there, they are not gonna get removed, but the effect should be highly nerfed. atleast nerfing to 1/5 of it's value would be justified, for an example talon proc giving 1k armor 10k hp, its ridiculous, something like +100 armor +100 hp would make sense, not just talon, from my perspective every proc should be nerfed same way in the first place before we try to get things balanced.

Not only lucky random thing deciding the wining factor but also it feels like PVE in a 3/3 5/5, defensive stats gone so high.

[Congeniality]

You are actually just wrong because in order to auto I have to be right on top of you.... So I take 10x more damage from your team than u sitting safely in the back. If you are able to kite me, I get no proc, period.

[Jensmage]

You are actually just wrong because in order to auto I have to be right on top of you.... So I take 10x more damage from your team than u sitting safely in the back. If you are able to kite me, I get no proc, period.

A fox will have a hard time to auto close by but not a rhino. They should not permit rhinos to use dagger because they are able to maintain close distance most of the time to auto. Once dagger proc locks onto a class mage, it’s ~90% impossible to escape.

Proc time should be reduced.

Sts should test out rhino vs mage to view the pvp of a mage vs rhino. Once dagger proc is locked to a mage, it basically takes less than 8 seconds to kill a mage with just proc occuring continuously. Even with weakness and fire...it’s not possible to escape. The mana pool is useless for a mage because wand rate is so slow. Because wand rate is slow compared to a bow or dagger, mage has less procs to occur.

[Congeniality]

A fox will have a hard time to auto close by but not a rhino. They should not permit rhinos to use dagger because they are able to maintain close distance most of the time to auto. Once dagger proc locks onto a class mage, it’s ~90% impossible to escape.

Proc time should be reduced.

Sts should test out rhino vs mage to view the pvp of a mage vs rhino. Once dagger proc is locked to a mage, it basically takes less than 8 seconds to kill a mage with just proc occuring continuously. Even with weakness and fire...it’s not possible to escape. The mana pool is useless for a mage because wand rate is so slow. Because wand rate is slow compared to a bow or dagger, mage has less procs to occur.

I was referring the the original post, discarding the rhino comparison but talking about the dagger set because I panicked seeing another way fox could be weaker lol. I totally agree about the rhino thing, and should have read the more recent comments on your thread to watch the direction of the conversation. Sorry for any confusion, I agree 100% about the rhino dilemma.

Thank you!
Walie

[Trajectory]

Do u even play smh


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[Mine AGK]

You are actually just wrong because in order to auto I have to be right on top of you.... So I take 10x more damage from your team than u sitting safely in the back. If you are able to kite me, I get no proc, period.

Foxes can kill pretty fast with proc inactive if you time skills and stuns right. As soon as proc is active, no one can move. Its actually making fox betted.

Now to address a dagger nerf. The proc lasts a little too long. This is a reason why the global cooldown time should have never been set at 8 sec for all proc except 2h.

[Jensmage]

Do u even play smh


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I’ll play again if slicbac returns my set or trade my other bird set bird. He claims he made 100m even though he rarely farms, buys plats, or farm. :p wasted $1,200 or more enchanting that set.

U miss me food :p

[Trajectory]

I’ll play again if slicbac returns my set or trade my other bird set bird. He claims he made 100m even though he rarely farms, buys plats, or farm. :p wasted $1,200 or more enchanting that set.

U miss me food :p

u should give me everything until then


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[Jensmage]

u should give me everything until then


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Ok sure... meet at shadow

[Trajectory]

Ok sure... meet at shadow

i know it’s not gonna happen but now i’m at shadow 24/7


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[Crashy]

The issue here definitely isn't the dagger itself, but rather the fox and rhino skills themselves which need to be worked on. The ability for rhinos to heal through restore, in addition to its combos, while dealing the high damge it can from buffs allows it to utilize every set making the sets appear op.

[Mine AGK]

The issue here definitely isn't the dagger itself, but rather the fox and rhino skills themselves which need to be worked on. The ability for rhinos to heal through restore, in addition to its combos, while dealing the high damge it can from buffs allows it to utilize every set making the sets appear op.

The dagger got a proc spawn buff that was never needed. The fact that the dagger proc lasts longer then all the other procs, not to mention it immobilizes the target. It should not last as long as it does.

Rhino with dagger is broken with its heals included. This is what brings back no skilled components for 1 class being broken OP. Dodge and armor combined with the healing abilities of rhino just negate alot, if not all of the damage it takes.

[Mine AGK]

The dagger got a proc spawn buff that was never needed. The fact that the dagger proc lasts longer then all the other procs, not to mention it immobilizes the target. It should not last as long as it does.

Rhino with dagger is broken with its heals included. This is what brings back no skilled components for 1 class being broken OP. Dodge and armor combined with the healing abilities of rhino just negate alot, if not all of the damage it takes.


The only people that think rhino takes skill are the ones that play nothing but rhino with dagger and wont play any other class because they would otherwise do terrible.

Dagger proc spawn rate needs to godown along with the amount of time it lasts. This is going back to 100 cap PVP where 1 class will rule them all requiring no skill.

[Jensmage]

They really need to tune Rhino with dagger. It doesn't require much skills for a rhino to win. Its even worse when a rhino with dagger that bullies players and act tough. It is really looking like PVP is similar to L100.

[3pc]

Fox isnt too bad to kill if it has dagger ive killed quite a few times. But rhino is a different story they can continue to stay close and with OP dodge and high armor almost impossible to kill ive tried every way to kite but they always manage to make their way back to me. Then again only skilled rhinos with dagger can kill me because you have to be good enough to know how to stay close range to land the proc and avoid getting kited. Ive played some new rhinos with dagger and though they do get me because they are tanks lol i have been able to kill them.

[Absolize]

Fox isnt too bad to kill if it has dagger ive killed quite a few times. But rhino is a different story they can continue to stay close and with OP dodge and high armor almost impossible to kill ive tried every way to kite but they always manage to make their way back to me. Then again only skilled rhinos with dagger can kill me because you have to be good enough to know how to stay close range to land the proc and avoid getting kited. Ive played some new rhinos with dagger and though they do get me because they are tanks lol i have been able to kill them.

Thank you, only skilled rhinos can use it properly, ive seen plenty of not so skilled dagger rhinos die to everything. It’s simple.

[Jensmage]

Fox isnt too bad to kill if it has dagger ive killed quite a few times. But rhino is a different story they can continue to stay close and with OP dodge and high armor almost impossible to kill ive tried every way to kite but they always manage to make their way back to me. Then again only skilled rhinos with dagger can kill me because you have to be good enough to know how to stay close range to land the proc and avoid getting kited. Ive played some new rhinos with dagger and though they do get me because they are tanks lol i have been able to kill them.

Fox is not the issue with PVP. Its Rhino with dagger that is the issue @ L105. They can continue to stay close and with OP doge, high armor, and heal is almost impossible to kill and escape.

ANY RHINO IS OP AFTER 30 MINS. That is how long it takes for any rhino to be op. Sorry but that is the truth and its sucks.

[razerfingers]

You should maybe adapt and overcome or.. level a rhino to 105 and join the hype 🤷🏻*♂️

[Crashy]

Fox is not the issue with PVP. Its Rhino with dagger that is the issue @ L105. They can continue to stay close and with OP doge, high armor, and heal is almost impossible to kill and escape.

ANY RHINO IS OP AFTER 30 MINS. That is how long it takes for any rhino to be op. Sorry but that is the truth and its sucks. When you pay so much money in plat to enchant a set and STS decides to update rhino with dagger to op is seems like a waste of money and time.

Yup, I think we've also forgotten rhinos utilizling the tyben set with their healing and multiple combos allowing them to remain full while dealing enough damage to kill oppponents.

[Mine AGK]

You should maybe adapt and overcome or.. level a rhino to 105 and join the hype 🤷🏻*♂️

So basically everyone has to play dagger rhino and destroy pvp like pure stats did? LOL your logic.

[Mine AGK]

Yup, I think we've also forgotten rhinos utilizling the tyben set with their healing and multiple combos allowing them to remain full while dealing enough damage to kill oppponents.

Yes they are tanky but they can be killed while kiting. The sword/axe proc doesnt keep your opponent in 1 spot for 6-8sec. It doesnt take skill when people are FORCED to fight with a proc that keeps you in one spot.

[Jensmage]

Yes they are tanky but they can be killed while kiting. The sword/axe proc doesnt keep your opponent in 1 spot for 6-8sec. It doesnt take skill when people are FORCED to fight with a proc that keeps you in one spot.


Cinco might be busy with the PVP Event preparation to address this issue. :P RIP PVP L105...

[Waug]

Cinco might be busy with the PVP Event preparation to address this issue. :P RIP PVP L105...

Yap exactly this is not exactly the right time to focus on this BUT as he said himself cinco is dedicated to fix L105 elite pvp. I can say I have some ideas for that waiting for the right time :p

[Jensmage]

Yap exactly this is not exactly the right time to focus on this BUT as he said himself cinco is dedicated to fix L105 elite pvp. I can say I have some ideas for that waiting for the right time :p

Isn't it time for your bed time. :P

[Muzzling]

This post was based on a 1v1 fight where you raged and threatened to get the rhino in this situation banned, since you cant get him banned you want him nerfed. Pretty low playstyle if you ask me. But anyway cinco has already said he isnt making changes to suit 1v1 as much as he is team play, and to be quite honest dagger rhino sucks in team play. This was just an irrational rage post to single out 2 or 3 players that even use this. Just play the game jen <3.

[Muzzling]

And since i know how much attention and negative feedback my response will get. Ill use this fame to bring attention to the 105 elite staff that litterally no one uses (pve, or pvp) id like to see a buff to this staff because i havent even seen it enough to know what the proc does. Cinco please buff the staff and make it viable i loved burning branch in 76.

[Jensmage]

This post was based on a 1v1 fight where you raged and threatened to get the rhino in this situation banned, since you cant get him banned you want him nerfed. Pretty low playstyle if you ask me. But anyway cinco has already said he isnt making changes to suit 1v1 as much as he is team play, and to be quite honest dagger rhino sucks in team play. This was just an irrational rage post to single out 2 or 3 players that even use this. Just play the game jen <3.

I already commented about being bullied on the other thread on Blue Mantle of Humania. To team and rush a player because they commented about Blue Mantle of Human will give you an idea of the kind of person HOOk is. Bully...

This post is about the game PVP @ L105 not being balanced. This thread was initiated to have players comment about what is balanced and what is not balanced. Lots of players have noticed that Rhino with Dagger is extremely op with little skills. Look at the post from players from Restoration, Reborn, Virgin, and WRE, family guild mentioning that Rhino with dagger is broken.



Crashy - Restoration
XYzther - Restoration
Mine AGK - Reborn
Jensmage - Virgin
Congeniality - Family
3PC - Family
Waug - WRE


Muzzling - Apex
Obsolize - Apex

Muzzling, it is always nice of you to support your Apex guild. Just like teaming players 1v3.

[Mine AGK]

I already commented about being bullied on the other thread on Blue Mantle of Humania. To team and rush a player because they commented about Blue Mantle of Human will give you an idea of the kind of person HOOk is. Bully...

This post is about the game PVP @ L105 not being balanced. This thread was initiated to have players comment about what is balanced and what is not balanced. Lots of players have noticed that Rhino with Dagger is extremely op with little skills. Look at the post from players from Restoration, Reborn, Virgin, and WRE, family guild mentioning that Rhino with dagger is broken.



Crashy - Restoration
XYzther - Restoration
Mine AGK - Reborn
Jensmage - Virgin
Congeniality - Family
3PC - Family
Waug - WRE


Muzzling - Apex
Obsolize - Apex

Muzzling, it is always nice of you to support your Apex guild. Just like teaming players 1v3.

For once, youre actually making a good post and pointing out facts. Maybe there are things that we can agree on 😀

[Draebatad]

Perhaps Cinco could make some quick adjustments to the dagger prior to the ctf tourney going too far? Seems there's enough support for a quick hot fix update?

[Cinco]

I could make all of the Elite Level 105 weapons class-based.

This is objectively the easiest thing to do and the least intrusive (with respect to balance).

[Draebatad]

I could make all of the Elite Level 105 weapons class-based.

This is objectively the easiest thing to do and the least intrusive (with respect to balance).

I don't know, I think a lot of us like the no-class restricted setup this time around? If you didn't mind making a couple of tweaks to the dagger I think most would be happy (but can't please everyone).

[Mine AGK]

I could make all of the Elite Level 105 weapons class-based.

This is objectively the easiest thing to do and the least intrusive (with respect to balance).

Id be okay with that. Class based weapons kept everyone in their own lanes and didnt allow classes to become OP with other gear. Although id nerf the rhino with str set a bit to balance that out for other classes.

The other option i can see to keep rhino with dagger set balanced out is for a dagger nerf. Heres a list of nerfs/buffs id suggest for an all around balanced dagger.

1. Dagger speed nerf.
2. Dagger damage buff (to compensate for speed nerf)
3. Dagger proc time nerf (how long is lasts)
4. Dagger proc spawn nerf (idk why it got buffed in the first place)

[Draebatad]

I prefer no class restrictions, personally. Can we give the dagger tweaks a try first? And if you did ever go back to class restricted end game gear, could you apply that only to end game pvp zones and not to pve? Ranged VS melee has its perks.

[Cinco]

We run a very high risk of breaking the dagger... making it 'useless' or 'totally OP' (more OP than it already is).

I'm okay with these risks. I'm not in a tourney ;-)

But keep in mind: I've got about an hour to dedicate to Pocket Legends over the next day and a half so I'd like for the changes not to be rage-fuel.

[Draebatad]

Understood. Maybe we can get some more people to weigh in before you take the time to make any changes.

[Mine AGK]

We run a very high risk of breaking the dagger... making it 'useless' or 'totally OP' (more OP than it already is).

I'm okay with these risks. I'm not in a tourney ;-)

But keep in mind: I've got about an hour to dedicate to Pocket Legends over the next day and a half so I'd like for the changes not to be rage-fuel.

Already know there are risks involved everytime anything is tweaked.

I dont think we will break the dagger. I just think a combination of the 4 things i listed would work out fine for the dagger.

[Congeniality]

I could make all of the Elite Level 105 weapons class-based.

This is objectively the easiest thing to do and the least intrusive (with respect to balance).

I believe this would be the easiest way to keep other classes from exploiting sets the easiest while also being able to easily buff each class (through their respective set).

[Jensmage]

I could make all of the Elite Level 105 weapons class-based.

This is objectively the easiest thing to do and the least intrusive (with respect to balance).

Not sure if that is a good idea. A little difficult to sell a set if they are class based. I believe it provides more options for players to find a set that works best for their playing style and class preference.

[Congeniality]

We run a very high risk of breaking the dagger... making it 'useless' or 'totally OP' (more OP than it already is).

I'm okay with these risks. I'm not in a tourney ;-)

But keep in mind: I've got about an hour to dedicate to Pocket Legends over the next day and a half so I'd like for the changes not to be rage-fuel.

As someone who solely uses the dagger set, I ask you not to nerf everything that has been mentioned here, as fox will quite literally be useless in my opinion. I would much prefer the class specific gear option.

[Jensmage]

We run a very high risk of breaking the dagger... making it 'useless' or 'totally OP' (more OP than it already is).

I'm okay with these risks. I'm not in a tourney ;-)

But keep in mind: I've got about an hour to dedicate to Pocket Legends over the next day and a half so I'd like for the changes not to be rage-fuel.

Risk is worth the change because change can be altered again. Good thing it’s only a game.

[Congeniality]

Risk is worth the change because change can be altered again. Good thing it’s only a game.

Good thing I'm playing fox in a tourney in the coming days/weeks..... halp :(

[3pc]

Id be okay with that. Class based weapons kept everyone in their own lanes and didnt allow classes to become OP with other gear. Although id nerf the rhino with str set a bit to balance that out for other classes.

The other option i can see to keep rhino with dagger set balanced out is for a dagger nerf. Heres a list of nerfs/buffs id suggest for an all around balanced dagger.

1. Dagger speed nerf.
2. Dagger damage buff (to compensate for speed nerf)
3. Dagger proc time nerf (how long is lasts)
4. Dagger proc spawn nerf (idk why it got buffed in the first place)

Id prefer numbers 1-4 on the dagger then it really isnt used by anyone but rhino after it was discovered to be OP for the class. People do enjoy having gear not being restricted just like how it was in the day and i would rather have it like that if only 1 weapon has to get nerfed.

[Mine AGK]

As someone who solely uses the dagger set, I ask you not to nerf everything that has been mentioned here, as fox will quite literally be useless in my opinion. I would much prefer the class specific gear option.

I think fox needs bettee buffs and damage skills in all honesty, not gear. The dagger needs a nerf.

I also have another suggestion for both dagger and rhino. A list of buffs/nerfs for things. A combination of the things i list, not all.

Rhino.
1. Heal regen should be nerfed (speed of heal becoming available again)
2. Tweaking the skills and what buffs/debuffs the inflict.
3. Nerf heal for rhino (hp gained per heal)

Dagger.
1. Dagger speed nerf
2. Dagger damage buff (to compensate for speed nerf)
3. Dagger proc time nerf (how long proc lasts)
4. Dagger proc spawn rate nerfed (never understood why it was buffed)

[Draebatad]

I'm not on board with a rhino nerf. A fox buff/adjustment of certain skills has been discussed a lot and there's been good ideas to improve the viability of this ranger class, which also recently got a little buff (+ Increased the base damage for Ranger characters by 25%. + Increased effectiveness of Ranger's Armor Shredder, Rabid Bite and Rage Tonic). I can support a test of a dagger tweak but Cinco has limited time. And we've got a tourney that is live. This started off as a simple dagger tweak and has turned into a laundry list.

[Mine AGK]

I'm not on board with a rhino nerf. A fox buff/adjustment of certain skills has been discussed a lot and there's been good ideas to improve the viability of this ranger class, which also recently got a little buff (+ Increased the base damage for Ranger characters by 25%. + Increased effectiveness of Ranger's Armor Shredder, Rabid Bite and Rage Tonic). I can support a test of a dagger tweak but Cinco has limited time. And we've got a tourney that is live. This started off as a simple dagger tweak and has turned into a laundry list.

Ive thrown that out there for rhino tweaking because even a str rhino beats birds/bears/foxes and trash mages. It needs its buffs tweaked.

[Draebatad]

Ive thrown that out there for rhino tweaking because even a str rhino beats birds/bears/foxes and trash mages.

That's not entirely correct. Depends on the rhino and the opponent. Not every player is equal.

Walie is concerned about a dagger tweak at this time. Curious what others think about the dagger discussion.

[Absolize]

That's not entirely correct. Depends on the rhino and the opponent. Not every player is equal.

Walie is concerned about a dagger tweak at this time. Curious what others think about the dagger discussion.

The dagger got a well needed buff, before said buff, it was bad and was never used by anyone because it did not proc enough to stay close (which you need to or dagger is bad) also I disagree with class based sets because of the fact that the tournament coming only allows DEX/INT sets on rhinos, therefore, many rhinos, would not be able to compete. Another reason, I like the freedom of choosing my playstyle on any class along with many others. Plus I’ve spent a lot enchanting my dex set for my rhino, so really the way I look it at it is unfair to many players besides the ones complaining about losing in a 1v1. Rhino is a very skilled class for teamplay, and that is what cinco is focused on this cap, maybe tweak the dagger some to where it wouldn’t make it useless again but please do not change anything else.

[Jensmage]

The dagger got a well needed buff, before said buff, it was bad and was never used by anyone because it did not proc enough to stay close (which you need to or dagger is bad) also I disagree with class based sets because of the fact that the tournament coming only allows DEX/INT sets on rhinos, therefore, many rhinos, would not be able to compete. Another reason, I like the freedom of choosing my playstyle on any class along with many others. Plus I’ve spent a lot enchanting my dex set for my rhino, so really the way I look it at it is unfair to many players besides the ones complaining about losing in a 1v1. Rhino is a very skilled class for teamplay, and that is what cinco is focused on this cap, maybe tweak the dagger some to where it wouldn’t make it useless again but please do not change anything else.

The dagger was buffed for fox to utilize and have a chance in PVP L105. The dagger isn't meant to be utilized by a rhino to rush and team. It was already stated why rhino is extremely op with dagger. I will state it again:
1) Extremely high armor and dodge
2) Heal
3) speed to chase
4) debuff
Result: an op class that can win easily.

When you have multiple players from different guilds commenting on supporting on tuning Rhino with dagger, there is a problem with Rhino and dagger @L105.

I will list again the players and the guild they are associated with that support the rhino dagger tuning based on the comments they have made.
1) Crashy - Restoration
2) XYzther - Restoration
3) Jensmage - Virgin
4) Congeniality - Family
5) 3pc - Family
6) Waug - WRE


Muzzling - APex
Obsolize (HOOK Rhino) - Apex

One view of a player does not out weigh the common views of the community.

[Jensmage]

I'm not on board with a rhino nerf. A fox buff/adjustment of certain skills has been discussed a lot and there's been good ideas to improve the viability of this ranger class, which also recently got a little buff (+ Increased the base damage for Ranger characters by 25%. + Increased effectiveness of Ranger's Armor Shredder, Rabid Bite and Rage Tonic). I can support a test of a dagger tweak but Cinco has limited time. And we've got a tourney that is live. This started off as a simple dagger tweak and has turned into a laundry list.

Kind of hard to say if you are on board with the rhino dagger being adjusted. I have not seen you PVP for weeks and months and I havent seen Bro/Drae PVP at all. Difficult to make a judgement when someone doesnt PVP much.

[Jensmage]

By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy".



168832

[Mine AGK]

The dagger got a well needed buff, before said buff, it was bad and was never used by anyone because it did not proc enough to stay close (which you need to or dagger is bad) also I disagree with class based sets because of the fact that the tournament coming only allows DEX/INT sets on rhinos, therefore, many rhinos, would not be able to compete. Another reason, I like the freedom of choosing my playstyle on any class along with many others. Plus I’ve spent a lot enchanting my dex set for my rhino, so really the way I look it at it is unfair to many players besides the ones complaining about losing in a 1v1. Rhino is a very skilled class for teamplay, and that is what cinco is focused on this cap, maybe tweak the dagger some to where it wouldn’t make it useless again but please do not change anything else.

Dagger never needed a buff. I played it just fine on bear. It was decent still on fox. It never needed a proc spawn buff. The proc lasts too long and keeps a player in 1 spot. Fox is already weak enough before AND after the buff. Fox didnt need gear buff, it needs skill buffs.

[Jensmage]

Dagger should return to normal and tune fox to be more competitive will resolve the issue.

[Mine AGK]

Dagger should return to normal and tune fox to be more competitive will resolve the issue.

It will not resolve it. The proc time needs a nerf considering it lasts too long right now. Nerf the speed and time length, buff the damage and see what that does.

[Absolize]

It will not resolve it. The proc time needs a nerf considering it lasts too long right now. Nerf the speed and time length, buff the damage and see what that does.

Your opinion is honestly completely irrelevant considering you’ve been banned multiple times in game and I’m surprised you haven’t been banned on the forums yet. You just want everything besides the gear/classes you use to be bad.

[Absolize]

It will not resolve it. The proc time needs a nerf considering it lasts too long right now. Nerf the speed and time length, buff the damage and see what that does.

If this is going to be a proc based type of pvp every weapon needs a good proc to be able to defend themselves. The dagger got a buff because it was bad, the dagger is the PERFECT weapon for a rhino/fox, that’s why people who know their classes well can use them.

[Absolize]

The dagger was buffed for fox to utilize and have a chance in PVP L105. The dagger isn't meant to be utilized by a rhino to rush and team. It was already stated why rhino is extremely op with dagger. I will state it again:
1) Extremely high armor and dodge
2) Heal
3) speed to chase
4) debuff
Result: an op class that can win easily.

When you have multiple players from different guilds commenting on supporting on tuning Rhino with dagger, there is a problem with Rhino and dagger @L105.

I will list again the players and the guild they are associated with that support the rhino dagger tuning based on the comments they have made.
1) Crashy - Restoration
2) XYzther - Restoration
3) Jensmage - Virgin
4) Congeniality - Family
5) 3pc - Family
6) Waug - WRE


Muzzling - APex
Obsolize (HOOK Rhino) - Apex

One view of a player does not out weigh the common views of the community.

Your logic doesn’t make any sense, the dagger is made for anyone with the stats of *275 BASE DEX* I don’t see anywhere in the game where the requirement to use said dagger is to be a ranger. :)

[Jensmage]

Your opinion is honestly completely irrelevant considering you’ve been banned multiple times in game and I’m surprised you haven’t been banned on the forums yet. You just want everything besides the gear/classes you use to be bad.

His opinion is valid and that was my opinion to begin with. Lots of players receive opportunities.

We shouldn’t go off topic. The purpose of the thread was to improve pvp @ l105

[Jensmage]

Your logic doesn’t make any sense, the dagger is made for anyone with the stats of *275 BASE DEX* I don’t see anywhere in the game where the requirement to use said dagger is to be a ranger. :)

The dagger needs tuning. Whether it is duration or the occurrence of the proc, any improvements with the dagger will help. Most have noticed that the “Rhino dagger looks deadly” and is true.

[Absolize]

His opinion is valid and that was my opinion to begin with. Lots of players receive opportunities.

We shouldn’t go off topic. The purpose of the thread was to improve pvp @ l105

I didn’t play with the dagger before buff but if cinco buffed it without anyone telling him to obviously it was useless.

[Absolize]

The dagger was buffed for fox to utilize and have a chance in PVP L105. The dagger isn't meant to be utilized by a rhino to rush and team. It was already stated why rhino is extremely op with dagger. I will state it again:
1) Extremely high armor and dodge
2) Heal
3) speed to chase
4) debuff
Result: an op class that can win easily.

When you have multiple players from different guilds commenting on supporting on tuning Rhino with dagger, there is a problem with Rhino and dagger @L105.

I will list again the players and the guild they are associated with that support the rhino dagger tuning based on the comments they have made.
1) Crashy - Restoration
2) XYzther - Restoration
3) Jensmage - Virgin
4) Congeniality - Family
5) 3pc - Family
6) Waug - WRE


Muzzling - APex
Obsolize (HOOK Rhino) - Apex

One view of a player does not out weigh the common views of the community.

Also, another thing, pvp was not made to go around a “Go System”, that was invented by the players. Forest fight is a full time FFA map, therefore rushing is not illegal, it is actually supported :)

[Jensmage]

It’s amazing how a dagger proc can immobilize the char and cause damage. Trying to stay on topic... :)

[Mine AGK]

I didn’t play with the dagger before buff but if cinco buffed it without anyone telling him to obviously it was useless.

You faced me with bow and lost 10-6. You faced me with str set. We were event at 4-4.

You seem to be under the notion that "oh, i cant kill someone, so i have to play classes/sets that require no skill" thats what you played during 100 cap in pvp along with EVERYONE at 85 cap playing blasters. Dagger wasnt useless before the buff. I played against foxes that did just fine with it. I played bear with dagger and it was fine.

The only reason you went to dagger and stayed there is because you know its broken and requires no skill at all to play AFTER buff. Before buff, it actually required skill and kiting to play it.

[Absolize]

You faced me with bow and lost 10-6. You faced me with str set. We were event at 4-4.

You seem to be under the notion that "oh, i cant kill someone, so i have to play classes/sets that require no skill" thats what you played during 100 cap in pvp along with EVERYONE at 85 cap playing blasters. Dagger wasnt useless before the buff. I played against foxes that did just fine with it. I played bear with dagger and it was fine.

The only reason you went to dagger and stayed there is because you know its broken and requires no skill at all to play AFTER buff. Before buff, it actually required skill and kiting to play it.

But then if it went back to normal and you lost which you will, you’ll be right back here ;)

[Crashy]

Ultimately I think this is more so an issue with the fox and rhino classes themselves which need some form of buff and nerf respectively rather than the dagger itself.

[Mine AGK]

But then if it went back to normal and you lost which you will, you’ll be right back here ;)

Str set can be killed by mage and good bears yet still have advantages over birds and foxes because of the tankiness. Thats more balanced then a proc that keeps your opponent in 1 spot for 7 seconds and has an auto speed of .5 and dps of around 5k+ depending on class its used on. Combine the rhinos heal/drain and debuffs/buffs, it makes it an extremely OP class with the dagger.

You played bow on rhino which does need kiting skills be overall doesnt need skilld as ANYONE can just play at 13 range for auto then attack when proc activates. Though im still able to move around a bit, but the debuff on bow for crit/hit is crazy good. Just like the axe debuffing -100 hit and ~70 crit, AND it stacks.

[Draebatad]

The discussion has been apparently rage-fueled after all, too many rivals targeting each other. It seems a lot of the examples focus on 1v1, and the balance efforts put forth by Cinco are undoubtedly focused on team play. This seems to boil down to complaints about 1v1.

[Absolize]

The discussion has been apparently rage-fueled after all, too many rivals targeting each other. It seems a lot of the examples focus on 1v1, and the balance efforts put forth by Cinco are undoubtedly focused on team play. This seems to boil down to complaints about 1v1.

Teamplay is the main focus of this cap, and dagger isn’t even an issue in teams.

[Jensmage]

Teamplay is the main focus of this cap, and dagger isn’t even an issue in teams.

Pvp is the main focus of the game and the quality of the game. Quality of the game determines the revenue of the game.

[Mine AGK]

Teamplay is the main focus of this cap, and dagger isn’t even an issue in teams.

Yes, i know thats what his focus was. Thats now how pvp will become after the tourney. It will end up dead and 1 class will rule it all with dagger. Thats exactly why 100 pvp died.
1 weapon to rule them all and 1 class when played with 4pc to rule them all.

[Absolize]

Yes, i know thats what his focus was. Thats now how pvp will become after the tourney. It will end up dead and 1 class will rule it all with dagger. Thats exactly why 100 pvp died.
1 weapon to rule them all and 1 class when played with 4pc to rule them all.

I just don’t want the dagger to be ruined, considering I’ve spent a lot of money enchanting my dex set including dagger.

[Idevour]

No need to nerf the dagger just nerf rhino

[Dolloway]

Here's an unpopular opinion after experimenting with dagger rhino: it doesn't feel op to me. I'd much rather play bow or talon rhino than dagger and I actually feel like bow/talon rhino is much more 'op', depending on how you use it, but then again, I mainly play with ranged sets. In team play the dagger feels just okay. I feel out of the three sets, dagger rhino is the most 'balanced' in team play. In 1-1 it kills certain classes/class types but so does every other class/class type. And in certain fights it completely comes down to procs.

Unfortunately, you're all going to get the dagger nerfed without even trying it for yourselves. There's already too much support for a nerf, but I believe the nerf is directed in the wrong direction. The problem is the classes themselves (fox and rhino) rather than the dagger. The classes themselves need to be tweaked. I always felt that both rhinos and foxes were unfinished products ever since they were brought to the game. I was speaking with Rose about this and she made an interesting point - if there was some way to add a new set of skills to a class like foxes, there may be plenty of better ideas for an assassin-like character than what fox is currently capable of. Foxes perhaps could do without one of their dashes or even both if the class was tweaked enough. An invisible skill could greatly help an assassin-like character such as the fox. I know plenty of other games that have assassins that go invisible for a few seconds and combat is usually balanced. I have numerous other ideas for tweaks to both classes, this is just one example.

If we're sticking to simple tweaks though, fox definitely needs some sort of defensive buff but I'm not quite sure what it needs, which is another reason I've been reluctant to voice an opinion about this debate on forums but I'm going to share it because several of you have been asking me to do so in our private messages. The fox class feels entirely too squishy. Similarly, I feel that the rhino is overtuned and needs some sort of nerf, probably to heals or a certain combo (summon into redemption). The rhino currently has too much heal and could do without one of the combos, or a reduction to the amount of heal that it gets from certain combos/skills.

I am speaking from as much of an unbiased perspective as I possibly can. I could care less if rhinos are nerfed even though I have a level 105 rhino myself. I only hop on the class sometimes to have fun and see what all the hype is about. It would actually be advantageous for me to argue for a dagger nerf with the tourney coming up, but I'm not going to do so because that's not what I genuinely believe should be tweaked. After all is said and done, I hope that rhinos and foxes can get the tweaks that they deserve so that pvp can be more balanced.

[Jensmage]

I just don’t want the dagger to be ruined, considering I’ve spent a lot of money enchanting my dex set including dagger.


If you feel like you are wasting money on enchanting, sell your set to me and I will pay double the gold.

[Jensmage]

The discussion has been apparently rage-fueled after all, too many rivals targeting each other. It seems a lot of the examples focus on 1v1, and the balance efforts put forth by Cinco are undoubtedly focused on team play. This seems to boil down to complaints about 1v1.

We can't really say the discussion has been apparently rage-fueled. Look at the overall discussion about dagger, rhino, and fox inputs. Good opinions are flowing in.
More than 70 percent of the daily battles are 1v1 PVP. Should 70% not deserve tuning?

[Waug]

By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy".



168832


Lel.........

[Absolize]

Lel.........

Right? Complaining about people trash talking she does that herself.

[Fwend]

From reading all the feedback on this thread about nerfing the dagger.

There are valid opinions as to why it needs a nerf for the most strongest pvp class the Rhino and how this nerf will have adverse effects the weakest pvp class the Fox.

The most easiest solution for Cinco is to make the 105 sets classed based. However, many players love the option of using different sets for all classes.

Pvp balance has always been a strong focus with he PL community. Lack of it affects players motivation to continue to play the game, thus causing inactivity.

There is no easy fix solution, perhaps more feed back from serious pvpers regarding each class, the skills sets and what specifically needs to be changed, buffed or nerfed.

Hopefully Cinco will take all this on board and it will be a long process to please everyone.

[Absolize]

From reading all the feedback on this thread about nerfing the dagger.

There are valid opinions as to why it needs a nerf for the most strongest pvp class the Rhino and how this nerf will have adverse effects the weakest pvp class the Fox.

The most easiest solution for Cinco is to make the 105 sets classed based. However, many players love the option of using different sets for all classes.

Pvp balance has always been a strong focus with he PL community. Lack of it affects players motivation to continue to play the game, thus causing inactivity.

There is no easy fix solution, perhaps more feed back from serious pvpers regarding each class, the skills sets and what specifically needs to be changed, buffed or nerfed.

Hopefully Cinco will take all this on board and it will be a long process to please everyone.

The solution of making sets class based isn’t smart. People like the freedom of choosing what the want to use on what class. 100 cap was dead and that was one of the reasons why. It will NOT help this situation it will just make the game boring when you’re forced to use a set that you don’t want to use. I’ve heard many dex bears/str mages (even though I don’t agree with them on using those sets) quitting at 100 cap because you’re forced to use one set. Keeping the variety and freedom in the game keeps it alive, I’m a serious pvper, that’s all I do on PL. So I feel my feedback is relevant to this situation.

[Jensmage]

Right? Complaining about people trash talking she does that herself.

This post isn't about trash talking. The post is an image displaying the candid state at which PVP is at for L105. See previous post by me. An image is worth a thousands words. Especially a candid image.




"By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy". "

168849

[Absolize]

This post isn't about trash talking. The post is an image displaying the candid state at which PVP is at for L105. See previous post by me. An image is worth a thousands words. Especially a candid image.




"By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy". "

168849

You just completely dodge whatever I say. Everyone will kill people in pvp and say “easy”, that literally means nothing just trash talk.

[Jensmage]

You just completely dodge whatever I say. Everyone will kill people in pvp and say “easy”, that literally means nothing just trash talk.

Focus on the score and the comment from the spectator rhino. "Dagger Rhino looks deadly"....


I believe Cinco is a wise person and will make a decision on how to improve PVP @L105. Lots of players have express their positive thoughts and that is thoughtful of them. we shouldn't discredit a post or a thread. We should provide positive feedback to improve the game.

[Draebatad]

After all is said and done, I hope that rhinos and foxes can get the tweaks that they deserve so that pvp can be more balanced.

Agreed. Thank you for weighing in on this.

[Mine AGK]

The solution of making sets class based isn’t smart. People like the freedom of choosing what the want to use on what class. 100 cap was dead and that was one of the reasons why. It will NOT help this situation it will just make the game boring when you’re forced to use a set that you don’t want to use. I’ve heard many dex bears/str mages (even though I don’t agree with them on using those sets) quitting at 100 cap because you’re forced to use one set. Keeping the variety and freedom in the game keeps it alive, I’m a serious pvper, that’s all I do on PL. So I feel my feedback is relevant to this situation.

The reason it was dead was not because of class restricted items. It was because of pure stat weapons (aka-P2W) that, combined with an OP class with a specific set of gear, will continue to kill pvp as a whole and make people less likely to venture to Pvp. Until P2W AND OP classes with specific gear are addressed and balanced out, pvp will die again. Thats a fact.

[Fwend]

This is what I was trying to convey by that statement , by a serious pvper making a new thread about what needs to be changed to each class,

https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?424820-What-Endgame-PvP-Really-Needs
Thank you Walie.

Its not necessary to get personal and salty just because you don't like someone. Not every one wants to argue with others, some people would like to help with the balancing of pvp.

[Jensmage]

Lots of players suggested that PVP team should have a higher priority. Rhino Talon/Dagger set team CTF is an issue.

When playing 5v5 ctf rhino/talon causes an imbalanced in the team event.

I will list the reasons based on the 5v5 CTF yesterday.
1) Rhino with dagger when solo can most of the time win against a flagger in a short time period. Imagine a rhino dagger battling a flagger at the beginning and end of capturing a flag. The team wont score points because the rhino will kill the flagger. A team with non rhino cant have another player escort a flagger because the resource isn't available.
2) Rhino can cover a large area on the map.
3) When a talon rhino is in a 2v2 situation (5v5 ctf game) with proc on, they can slow down the flagger, tank with talon, and review until their team catches up.
4) a talon rhino can tank quite a long time with proc, high armor, dodge, and heal.


I am listing some questions that arises....
How is STS going to fix this issue when rhino can tank better with talon proc than Tyben Axe?
How is STS going to fix the issue where rhino dagger can own most of the the battles in a team or solo environment? When playing CTF, 1v1 does occur often during the critical moment of capturing flag and scoring at the end.


Should the sets be class based?

[Cinco]

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

[Absolize]

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

I agree. A slight damage nerf to rhino would not only make it take longer for them to kill, but give the other classes a bigger chance. But if the damage output was nerfed, I feel as if everything else should stay as is. Rhino would still be useable that way. But Cinco, the one thing I do request, please do not make classed based sets again. Not only me, but many others enjoy the freedom in choosing their playstyle in any class, it makes the game more interesting and fun that way to master something completely different. The dmg output nerf on rhino would do just fine.

[Idevour]

Ya, don't make sets class based it makes pvp more interesting when every class can use any set

[Mine AGK]

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

Dagger proc shouldnt last as long as it does though. I counted atleast 7 seconds of being stunned. Id say reduce the time of being stunned to 5 seconds.

Rhino damage shouldnt be the only thing that gets a nerf. Tweak the rhinos buffs.
During 85 cap and even before all the way down to 76 when rhino/fox came out. Rhinos had to give up buffs for damage or damage for buffs with their skill points. With 85-100 cap, this gave rhinos 15 SKILL POINTS to add to their damage/heal/buff skills. THIS MEANS THEY COULD MAX OUT ALL BUFFS AND STILL DEAL GOOD DAMAGE. At that point, rhino became OP and way tankier then bear. Buffs for rhino need to be addressed aswell NOT just damage output.

[Cinco]

Dagger proc shouldnt last as long as it does though. I counted atleast 7 seconds of being stunned. Id say reduce the time of being stunned to 5 seconds.

Rhino damage shouldnt be the only thing that gets a nerf. Tweak the rhinos buffs.
During 85 cap and even before all the way down to 76 when rhino/fox came out. Rhinos had to give up buffs for damage or damage for buffs with their skill points. With 85-100 cap, this gave rhinos 15 SKILL POINTS to add to their damage/heal/buff skills. THIS MEANS THEY COULD MAX OUT ALL BUFFS AND STILL DEAL GOOD DAMAGE. At that point, rhino became OP and way tankier then bear. Buffs for rhino need to be addressed aswell NOT just damage output.

The smart move is to do one thing at a time.
Also, I start ignoring you WHEN YOU WRITE IN ALL CAPS!!

[Mine AGK]

The smart move is to do one thing at a time.
Also, I start ignoring you WHEN YOU WRITE IN ALL CAPS!!

One thing at a time, yes, but i dont understand why dagger ever got a proc spawn buff. It was fine on bear and even on fox. Fox, obviously as you have seen from feedback, is underpowered in terms of its armor and unrooting capabilities. So it couldnt use the dagger to its full potential.

With the 7 seconds it lasts and with the 8 second cooldown we have on all 1h weapon procs, proc is ready to activate again within 1 second of me being able to move again. Thats not enough time for anyone to heal/kite in order to keep distance from classes that can dash/pull their opponent.

Unintentionally passive aggressive torwards you. Im so used to having to put stuff in caps because people seem to skim over it because people pick and choose what other people say, or completely miss it altogether.

Though my point still stands. Buffs need to also be addressed for rhino as 15 extra skill points were gained from 85-100 and allowed the rhino to no longer have to compensate for its lower buffs or lower damage. This allows them to max out buffs and still allows them to put out decent damage vs enimies. Now adding 5 more skill points from 100-105 gave them 5 more points to increase their damage output.

[Cinco]

...as 15 extra skill points were gained from 85-100 and allowed the rhino to no longer have to compensate for its lower buffs or lower damage. This allows them to max out buffs and still allows them to put out decent damage vs enimies. Now adding 5 more skill points from 100-105 gave them 5 more points to increase their damage output.

This issue, from my perspective, is not the number of skill points per level (which all players receive) but the number of buffs in the Paladin kit. It's totally cool for class kits to be asymmetrical but it means that my work on the Paladin will be 3x more complex than for other classes. Rest assured - changes are in the works ;-)

[3pc]

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

Exactly.. fox is supposed to be half bear yet they cannot survive like one only puts out some nice dmg. Rhino does both the dmg and armor which makes it the more OP class towards endgame PVP

[Mine AGK]

This issue, from my perspective, is not the number of skill points per level (which all players receive) but the number of buffs in the Paladin kit. It's totally cool for class kits to be asymmetrical but it means that my work on the Paladin will be 3x more complex than for other classes. Rest assured - changes are in the works ;-)

I see thats your stance. Maybe we can look into after the rebalance that you suggested? (Damage) Ill hold my suggestion of that until damager nerf.

Though is there any reworks of the dagger proc time? From several peoples perspective, it lasts a bit too long.

[MageFFA]

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

[Absolize]

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

100% agree with this balance solution. It’s the set that does a crazy amount of DPS, so as a rhino I rely on the autos, my skill damage isn’t a factor at this point, I believe the sets can be nerfed, because like MageFFA said if you take rhino into honor arena it is completely useless. Anything can 10-0 a rhino in honor, and that is why people don’t complain about it there. I suggest set tweaking before rhino in general.

[MageFFA]

Let's talk about this dagger set for a minute also. Why is it that rhinos sre receiving heat for IT'S PROC. It's not like a mage can't use dagget set either? Last i check bears with daggers was always a great meta in PvP. Why are rhinos receiving heat when they can't even stun as much as a mage, bird and bear can? Rhinos stun consists of Rhino Might( WHICH NEEDS TO BE L.10 TO BE 100% STUN) and Holy Tempest that barely does that. Yet birds have 2 roots and avian scream . Bears have Hell Scream, Crippling Slash, Stomp, Beckon, Super mega slash and vengeful Slash. Mages have Frost and Icestorm which has crazy cool downs. All of these attacks has a chance to stun even if it doesn't say so in their description. Yet we're going to sit here and bash infinite stun on rhinos? Hypocrisy at it's finest people.

[Jensmage]

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

I believe it’s a different level of support from STS now.

To be honest, I started pvp +l75 a year ago and wasn’t active on forum until I hosted l71 tourney.

I think Cinco isn’t nerfing rhino. He is tuning rhino in a way to balance pvp 1v1 and team play @L105.

Most players are at endgame now because STS improved pvp by a lot.



“Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?”
Is this really true? Were you guys utilizing l100 set vs a mage using l105? Doubt cinco will believe this statement. He probably can’t shake his head any harder. Srry...


Nice to have two rhinos in Apex supporting the thread on rhino.

[MageFFA]

I believe it’s a different level of support from STS now.

To be honest, I started pvp +l75 a year ago and wasn’t active on forum as now.

I think Cinco isn’t nerfing rhino. He is tuning rhino in a way to balance pvp 1v1 and team play @L105. Most players are at endgame now.



“Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?”
Is this really true? Were you guys utilizing l100 set vs a mage using l105? Doubt cinco will believe this statement. He probably can’t shake his head any harder. Srry...


Nice to have two rhinos in Apex supporting the thread on rhino.

No. If you saw what i was writing prior to that sentence/statement you'd comprehend that i was nitpicking at the Arena of Power(Inside Joke). The Arena of Power is based on Skill Damage. Key Skill Damage. You guys complain about rhinos stats? Go to the Arena Of Power and 1v1 any rhino. Then when you 10-0 come back here and say the same thing "Rhino needs DAMAGE Nerf". It's not the class, it's the set that the rhino is using and your very own playstyle.

[Jensmage]

No. If you saw what i was writing prior to that sentence/statement you'd comprehend that i was nitpicking at the Arena of Power(Inside Joke). The Arena of Power is based on Skill Damage. Key Skill Damage. You guys complain about rhinos stats? Go to the Arena Of Power and 1v1 any rhino. Then when you 10-0 come back here and say the same thing "Rhino needs DAMAGE Nerf". It's not the class, it's the set that the rhino is using and your very own playstyle.


I think you are referring to “Arena of Honor”? That is is a completely different story.

[MageFFA]

I think you are referring to “Arena of Honor”? That is is a completely different story.

Not Really. Again if you read my post i explained how the arena of Power worked(inside joke) is mostly based on Skill Damage and DMG buffed, mostly skill damage though. If rhinos were the most OP i doubt they would be losing 10-0 to every class. Yet mages can drop a 11 bomb in FFA dispite lower armor value they still out tank rhinos. I'll also have you consider that because of rhino nerf last cap rhinos are now a obsolete sorry excuse for what they use to be in twink so just note that. This effects everything and i refuse to go back to 2014-2015 rhino. I've debunked every nitpick every poster has said about rhino but they refused to see it's not rhinos but the sets they use. Go ask Zohan to use STR gear and have a 1v1 with oneshotfury or itastemvp and I'll insure you that 8-4 will not happen.

[Jensmage]

Let's talk about this dagger set for a minute also. Why is it that rhinos sre receiving heat for IT'S PROC. It's not like a mage can't use dagget set either? Last i check bears with daggers was always a great meta in PvP. Why are rhinos receiving heat when they can't even stun as much as a mage, bird and bear can? Rhinos stun consists of Rhino Might( WHICH NEEDS TO BE L.10 TO BE 100% STUN) and Holy Tempest that barely does that. Yet birds have 2 roots and avian scream . Bears have Hell Scream, Crippling Slash, Stomp, Beckon, Super mega slash and vengeful Slash. Mages have Frost and Icestorm which has crazy cool downs. All of these attacks has a chance to stun even if it doesn't say so in their description. Yet we're going to sit here and bash infinite stun on rhinos? Hypocrisy at it's finest people.

These are the reasons why...

When a rhino utilizes a Volta Dagger set, it’s almost impossible to beat. Reason:
1) high armor and dodge
2) chasing speed
3) heal
4) debuff
5) Dagger immobilize the class.
Basically it’s like a mage with better features in a 1v1 and team environment.

Mage can’t chase a player as well as a rhino. Mage is weak with armor and dodge compared to rhino. Rhino has escape speed. Remember, speed was removed from mage recently.

[MageFFA]

These are the reasons why...

When a rhino utilizes a Volta Dagger set, it’s almost impossible to beat. Reason:
1) high armor and dodge
2) chasing speed
3) heal
4) debuff
5) Dagger immobilize the class.
Basically it’s like a mage with better features in a 1v1 and team environment.

Mage can’t chase a player as well as a rhino. Mage is weak with armor and dodge compared to rhino. Rhino has escape speed. Remember, speed was removed from mage recently.

I can not disagree even harder. Sorry Jen but of all of the reasons you listed i only agree with #1 and #5 but 5 is a invalid reason since other classes can infinite stun more than rhinos could ever comprehend.

1) Rhinos Armor and Heal can be thrown out of the conversation. Rhinos base armor value is just the same as bear, nerfing the only good aspect of rhino would render it a useless class. You'd just be playing a very suppressed mage who can't kill anyone. Rhinos base health is also lower than mage by a significant number. Lower health means higher heal and considering that rhinos take in alot of damage til the point of death, it would not be called fair it would called a slaughter.

2) chasing speed isn't a thing. It's simply a skill just like how Ms is a skill. We tend to hate it because what it can do but we have no right to complain about it. Now if you're having a problem about chasing speed on rhinos then I'd really love to see what you'd think of Foxes when they're buffed.

3) Rhinos are NOT a better 1v1 class than mages. You'd see from my name being MageFFA, mage is one of my favorite class second to Bird. Mages stomp rhinos in all levels but 17. Same in Endgame if it was a STR rhino vs a INT mage. The only reason rhinos can even compete against mages is because of their sets period(inside joke). This is backed by Arena of Honor a place where skill DMG depends on who gets kill and who doesn't.

[Dolloway]

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff?

Then you didn't read my posts during the 76-77 cap. I stated in one long balance thread that rhino needed tweaks to make the class better but I was not the right person to suggest tweaks to either the rhino or fox class and that it would be better left to the people that play those classes regularly. I was also not the right person to suggest such changes because I felt like (and still feel) that foxes and rhinos are unfinished products (especially rhino).

And to go into slight detail why I think that rhino is an especially unfinished class: I believe it's the hardest class to balance in the game. It's been either utterly useless or slightly to greatly overpowered. I haven't seen a completely 'balanced' endgame rhino yet.

It's one major nerf away (depending on what is nerfed) from being utterly useless again at endgame and because of the upcoming tourney, I didn't want such changes taking place at this time, but there were individuals that strongly wanted me to voice my opinion on this thread.

[MageFFA]

Then you didn't read my posts during the 76-77 cap. I stated in one long balance thread that rhino needed tweaks to make the class better but I was not the right person to suggest tweaks to either the rhino or fox class and that it would be better left to the people that play those classes regularly. I was also not the right person to suggest such changes because I felt like (and still feel) that foxes and rhinos are unfinished products (especially rhino).

And to go into slight detail why I think that rhino is an especially unfinished class: I believe it's the hardest class to balance in the game. It's been either utterly useless or slightly to greatly overpowered. I haven't seen a completely 'balanced' endgame rhino yet.

It's one major nerf away (depending on what is nerfed) from being utterly useless again at endgame and because of the upcoming tourney, I didn't want such changes taking place at this time, but there were individuals that strongly wanted me to voice my opinion on this thread.

If that's the case then i apologize for jumping to conclusions. Rhino and fox are classes that are no where near finished. Certain combos do not meet the demands the description says. Like how juiced combo supposed to to give HP back but it only works at 25%

[Lovenus]

I think volta dagger should stay the same proc rate and duration as it is. To be honest, during 8 years of Pocket Legends, when was dagger weapon so frequently discussed?

If volta dagger is nerfed, it will be almost the same as all other daggers from level 1-101. I would love for it to remain and give the dagger weapon class it's deserved glory and attention. At least there is a dagger set that people would use in pvp.

Rhino charge to you with dagger set, you can equip a dagger set too to versus it. This will be more balanced.

It is just like crossbow has more range for kiting, should we nerf crossbow range too?

It is not about the item set, if you feel it is unfair, you can always use the same set.

Volta dagger rhino vs dagger bear, dagger bird, dagger fox, dagger mage.

Seems interesting to me. I believe it is called volta dagger for a reason because of the proc, so I will vote for it to remain.

[Lovenus]

Level 15 pvp is mostly bears.

Level 27 pvp is mostly mages.

Level 105 pvp is rhino.

Seems balanced.

I haven't tried but I think a volta dagger mage is quite OP too.

[Jensmage]

I think volta dagger should stay the same proc rate and duration as it is. To be honest, during 8 years of Pocket Legends, when was dagger weapon so frequently discussed?

If volta dagger is nerfed, it will be almost the same as all other daggers from level 1-101. I would love for it to remain and give the dagger weapon class it's deserved glory and attention. At least there is a dagger set that people would use in pvp.

Rhino charge to you with dagger set, you can equip a dagger set too to versus it. This will be more balanced.


It is just like crossbow has more range for kiting, should we nerf crossbow range too?

It is not about the item set, if you feel it is unfair, you can always use the same set.

Volta dagger rhino vs dagger bear, dagger bird, dagger fox, dagger mage.

Seems interesting to me. I believe it is called volta dagger for a reason because of the proc, so I will vote for it to remain.



Do you PVP at L105? How does a fox, mage, and bear, and bird with dagger stand against a dagger rhino with op armor, dodge, heal, chase speed...


I think bow should be in another thread. Focus on one item at a time. Adding too many variables in an equation makes it difficult to solve.

[Jensmage]

Level 15 pvp is mostly bears.

Level 27 pvp is mostly mages.

Level 105 pvp is rhino.

Seems balanced.

I haven't tried but I think a volta dagger mage is quite OP too.

I think STS priority is @L105 in balancing the PVP environment.

[Mine AGK]

I think STS priority is @L105 in balancing the PVP environment.

Lovenus? Comparing twink to endgame is completely a false equivalency. Twink is luck based crit/dodge. Endgame requires more then 1 combo along with having to play AROUND your procs. 1 class ruling them all with a proc that stuns for too long, is NOT balanced.

[MageFFA]

I can't comprehend why everyone is singling out rhino for using a set that has it's OWN proc. This entire convo is just to drop rhinos from a class that can compete to the worst. You say dagger is OP but you're blaming rhinos for it? Where is the logic in any of your statements, shouldn't you be asking for a nerf on dagger instead? Like this is entirely absurd and I've already given 3 reasons why everyones statements were invalid. There are 4 clases that have more stun procs compared to rhinos 2, one that has to be maxed to even be effective, yet nobody here cared to even try that out? You're acting as if mage doesn't get a 500 boost in health and mana regen from their proc, if used correctly rhinos with daggers won't kill them. Ever cared to actually put effort into strategies instead of coming on forum quick to ask for the nerf of a ALREADY DESTROYED CLASS instead of the item in use?

Not only is there more mages, birds, and bears in endgame, there is barely any dex rhinos i see, so where is your sources on there being nothing but dex rhinos in endgame. I'll ensure you hook is just 1 rhino I'm just 1 rhino and trans is barely on his. So please where are these extra rhinos in endgame PvP i somehow don't know about?

This thread should be closed. Full of hypocrisy in every post.

[Mine AGK]

I can't comprehend why everyone is singling out rhino for using a set that has it's OWN proc. This entire convo is just to drop rhinos from a class that can compete to the worst. You say dagger is OP but you're blaming rhinos for it? Where is the logic in any of your statements, shouldn't you be asking for a nerf on dagger instead? Like this is entirely absurd and I've already given 3 reasons why everyones statements were invalid. There are 4 clases that have more stun procs compared to rhinos 2, one that has to be maxed to even be effective, yet nobody here cared to even try that out? You're acting as if mage doesn't get a 500 boost in health and mana regen from their proc, if used correctly rhinos with daggers won't kill them. Ever cared to actually put effort into strategies instead of coming on forum quick to ask for the nerf of a ALREADY DESTROYED CLASS instead of the item in use?

Not only is there more mages, birds, and bears in endgame, there is barely any dex rhinos i see, so where is your sources on there being nothing but dex rhinos in endgame. I'll ensure you hook is just 1 rhino I'm just 1 rhino and trans is barely on his. So please where are these extra rhinos in endgame PvP i somehow don't know about?

This thread should be closed. Full of hypocrisy in every post.

The reason most people want the dagger nerfed, is because the proc lasts too long. Combine the dagger proc with the rhinos ridiculous dodge, its hard to even kite rhino. As soon as the proc lands, nearly every class is dead, except bird if they talon proc. Thats IF they get lucky enough to proc. Mage proc doesnt negate damage just from the regen they get from their proc, not to mention it lasts a whole 2-3 seconds compared to the dagger proc lasting for 7 seconds. Even if i sat in my pool, i still wouldnt survive or do enough damage to even nuke rhino with the proc. I can play in my proc or around my proc all day, i still wont come close to nuking rhino from its buff. Rhino dodges ALOT and combined with it ALSO being able to dash at its target while iced, how can i CONTINUE to be at range to keep the rhino from getting close? Ive tested this over and over again. Im not just coming on forums to say somethings OP after 1 or 2 fights.


As far as how many rhinos are at endgame playing dagger. Thats irrelavent. How many rhinos played endgame BEFORE they became OP during 100 cap? Barely any. As soon as they were found to be broken OP at 100, EVERYONE who PVP'd, made one. People dont want to have to make a class, or spend more gold (that most people dont have at this point) just to have fun in pvp. On top of enchanting another set or, farming for the pieces if they cant afford to buy one. Thats not how people want to spend their time in game. I surely dont want to waste more time AND gold just to be able to pvp against broken dagger rhinos all day. That ruins endgame and will continue to until its balanced out. Everyone going to 1 class/gear isnt fun for endgame at all. Its just the same boring fights that never change.

[Jensmage]

The combo damage 15% reduction on rhino did not improve the PVP environment. The proc dagger causes the damages in the short duration. ~945 damage/Lighting is op in a PVP environment. We are not talking about Lighting/second because it looks like the lighting occurs more often then the actual real lighting. Rhino >mage>fox>bird>bear. If it is possible for rhinos to beat another class in a short period during a CTF, then a team will have little chance in winning. I mentioned previously that if a rhino can beat a flagger at the beginning and end of capturing the flag, then the opponent team is unable to score. Flagger can not be escorted always because the resources are not there.

Fox hasn't seen much improvements after previous update.

Dex set mage is op during a 1v1 and team environment ( 2v2 or 3v3 CTF). When a mage selects talon with proc, it basically impossible to kill for ~8 seconds. A bear and dex mage can attack an int mage easily during a ctf or 2v2. 8 seconds of impossible to kill for a dex set mage is op. I was trying out dex mage and beating a bear, bird, and int mage did not require skills or minimum skills. Other classes are taking advantage of the dex procs to win. If int mage had speed back, it might be a different story. Doubt that will happen.

These dex procs contribute to the results way too much in a PVP environment.

All classes except for bear are switching to Dex set because of the advantages with dex set procs. Image will display the state at which PVP L105 is at. Mage selects dex. Rhino and bird also selects dex. Rip int set.

168970168971168972

[Waug]

Jen get a Dex set kill some good int mages and post ss..
No time rn to post a long reply...

[Jensmage]

Jen get a Dex set kill some good int mages and post ss..
No time rn to post a long reply...

LOl...even Waug aka BHUI plays dex mage. Like that image of you posted recently? :P

Teach me dex mage and Rhino dex pls... Waug

[Mine AGK]

LOl...even Waug aka BHUI plays dex mage. Like that image of you posted recently? :P

Teach me dex mage and Rhino dex pls... Waug

Dex rhino requires no skills. They tank too much and the proc lasts too long on dagger. Dex mage is for nubs that dont know how to nuke as INT mage.

[Draebatad]

There is no perfect solution. If gear gets class restricted, people then switch to op class. Even if today's op class gets nerfed, there's always another op class tomorrow. Good luck balancing it all out to where no one complains - not happening. The constant tug of war over gear and class balance will never end. It is what it is. Try to enjoy it.

[Mine AGK]

There is no perfect solution. If gear gets class restricted, people then switch to op class. Even if today's op class gets nerfed, there's always another op class tomorrow. Good luck balancing it all out to where no one complains - not happening. The constant tug of war over gear and class balance will never end. It is what it is. Try to enjoy it.

In all honesty, since the nerf on rhino didnt work. I think it should be class restricted. Dagger/talon/bow to bird/fox
Sword/axe/2h sword to bear/rhino
Wand/staff to mage.
It would actually be more balanced this way.
Birds can kill str rhinos.
Mages can kill str rhinos.
Bears can kill str rhinos (but the fights last forever)
Foxes can kill str rhino. (With dagger)
Birds can kill mages (with bow requiring little skill)
Birds can kill bears.
Bears can kill birds.
Bears can kill mages (with control)


At this point, it would balance pvp out more then worrying about "can i use my dex gear in pve?" Pvp is more active then farming at endgame. Pvp needs to be kept alive. Dex rhinos are going to continue to ruin endgame.

[Jensmage]

In all honesty, since the nerf on rhino didnt work. I think it should be class restricted. Dagger/talon/bow to bird/fox
Sword/axe/2h sword to bear/rhino
Wand/staff to mage.
It would actually be more balanced this way.
Birds can kill str rhinos.
Mages can kill str rhinos.
Bears can kill str rhinos (but the fights last forever)
Foxes can kill str rhino. (With dagger)
Birds can kill mages (with bow requiring little skill)
Birds can kill bears.
Bears can kill birds.
Bears can kill mages (with control)


At this point, it would balance pvp out more then worrying about "can i use my dex gear in pve?" Pvp is more active then farming at endgame. Pvp needs to be kept alive. Dex rhinos are going to continue to ruin endgame.


Lol birds will be king of the court with endgame if sets were class restricted. I am a plus one with sets being class restricted if dex bow is tuned. The dex bow is extremely op. It has range, op dmg, and FIRE PIT. fire pit is so bad that it slows down the entire team and causes dmg when the entire team is stuck within the area of the pit.

[Mine AGK]

Lol birds will be king of the court with endgame if sets were class restricted. I am okay with sets being class restricted if dex bow is tuned. The dex bow is extremely op. It has range, op dmg, and FIRE PIT. fire pit is so bad that it slows down the entire team and causes dmg when the entire team is stuck within the area of the pit.

I dont think the bow needs the slowness. Maybe tweak its damage while hit with proc and leave the crit/hit% debuff it has the same. Its really good without the slowness but with its 13 range included in the slowess, its hard for any class other then another person using a bow, to be able to defend itself.

[Rushlikeagod]

Would not be against sets being class specific tbh, rhinos arnt super op 1v1 w a str set like they are dex

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Waug]

Dex set mage is op during a 1v1 and team environment ( 2v2 or 3v3 CTF). When a mage selects talon with proc, it basically impossible to kill for ~8 seconds. A bear and dex mage can attack an int mage easily during a ctf or 2v2. 8 seconds of impossible to kill for a dex set mage is op. I was trying out dex mage and beating a bear, bird, and int mage did not require skills or minimum skills. Other classes are taking advantage of the dex procs to win. If int mage had speed back, it might be a different story. Doubt that will happen.


All classes except for bear are switching to Dex set because of the advantages with dex set procs. Image will display the state at which PVP L105 is at. Mage selects dex. Rhino and bird also selects dex. Rip int set.



Dex rhino requires no skills. They tank too much and the proc lasts too long on dagger. Dex mage is for nubs that dont know how to nuke as INT mage.

"When a mage selects talon with proc, it basically impossible to kill for ~8 seconds" - If ANY class selects talon with proc, it's get tankiest thing in pvp, not just mage. It's funny when you said "when a mage selects talon" that's because your perspective you don't wanna see a mage with talon.

My perspective endgame pvp is in one of the it's worst situation. I don't even understand that in such a cracked environment, tourney is being hosted, it's totally about who can sneak flag is gonna win, old days rockwall ctf in a finished match players used to have 100+ kills now its max kill is like 10 and one team already own SAYS THE WHOLE STORY , not saying it as non constructive way, I admire cinco's hard work and getting to that constructive way.

Last cap atleast it was fun to do 2-2/3-3 no gun, but in this cap, it's broken everywhere every angle. All I can see in this thread is that some int mages getting their way through a position where no other class or play style is op other than int mage. They're fine with it, this is it because they can beat any other class in 1-1 and they don't care if other classes can't beat em or 3v3 ffa ain't fun anymore. Anybody can tank with a talon proc, even if it's weakest class, you aimed a weakest class in ffa, as it should be, next moment you found that it got proc, now it's tankiest. But then which particular proc to blame? wand proc makes a almost zero HP zero Mana mage full to it's fullest and that to every single team mate.

As far as dagger rhino, ofc it's significantly OP that anything else because one it's close that continuous proc is like death trap not a good way like a pro bear can pin it's enemy by proper skills rather an auto way.

When ppl says bow has high damage they actually don't have any idea what a bow should be, it's still lacking skill damage with low armor then if it's proc is a problem then why other weapons have their proc? Saying it skill-less is like saying you don't have skill to kill a low armor player, try to modify ur tactics? a bow mage can kill a bear, a int mage can't? if so work on your skill pls.

In such a situation if procs gonna stay making items class bound is like throwing endgame pvp in a recycle bin.

[yannjoel]

I found an other solution for endgamepvp for myself

Why not stick to the arena of honer?

There are many reason to do that.
- Sets are balanced and cheap.
- No luck based proc
- No op Dodge/Hit/Crit
- No expensive an luck based enchantments

Only missing thing is a honer set ctf map :D

[Dolloway]

I found an other solution for endgamepvp for myself

Why not stick to the arena of honer?

There are many reason to do that.
- Sets are balanced and cheap.
- No luck based proc
- No op Dodge/Hit/Crit
- No expensive an luck based enchantments

Only missing thing is a honer set ctf map :D

^ just make the Honor arena a permanent arena (and add a ctf Honor map).

Those who like regular endgame pvp can pvp with elite 105 sets. Those who like Honor pvp can pvp with Honor gear.

And more Honor gear or arena maps/sets/stats can be added in the future for other types of pvp at endgame, so you can choose what type of pvp to play and enjoy.

Personally I like both, but some people only enjoy one or the other.

[Yogaa]

I found an other solution for endgamepvp for myself

Why not stick to the arena of honer?

There are many reason to do that.
- Sets are balanced and cheap.
- No luck based proc
- No op Dodge/Hit/Crit
- No expensive an luck based enchantments

Only missing thing is a honer set ctf map :D
Totally agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jensmage]

"When a mage selects talon with proc, it basically impossible to kill for ~8 seconds" - If ANY class selects talon with proc, it's get tankiest thing in pvp, not just mage. It's funny when you said "when a mage selects talon" that's because your perspective you don't wanna see a mage with talon.

My perspective endgame pvp is in one of the it's worst situation. I don't even understand that in such a cracked environment, tourney is being hosted, it's totally about who can sneak flag is gonna win, old days rockwall ctf in a finished match players used to have 100+ kills now its max kill is like 10 and one team already own SAYS THE WHOLE STORY , not saying it as non constructive way, I admire cinco's hard work and getting to that constructive way.

Last cap atleast it was fun to do 2-3/3-3 no gun, but in this cap, it's broken everywhere every angle. All I can see in this thread is that some int mages getting their way through a position where no other class or play style is op other than int mage. They're fine with it, this is it because they can beat any other class in 1-1 and they don't care if other classes can't beat em or 3v3 ffa ain't fun anymore. Anybody can tank with a talon proc, even if it's weakest class, you aimed a weakest class in ffa, as it should be, next moment you found that it got proc, now it's tankiest. But then which particular proc to blame? wand proc makes a almost zero HP zero Mana mage full to it's fullest and that to every single team mate.

As far as dagger rhino, ofc it's significantly OP that anything else because one it's close that continuous proc is like death trap not a good way like a pro bear can pin it's enemy by proper skills rather an auto way.

When ppl says bow has high damage they actually don't have any idea what a bow should be, it's still lacking skill damage with low armor then if it's proc is a problem then why other weapons have their proc? Saying it skill-less is like saying you don't have skill to kill a low armor player, try to modify ur tactics? a bow mage can kill a bear, a int mage can't? if so work on your skill pls.

In such a situation if procs gonna stay making items class bound is like throwing endgame pvp in a recycle bin.

To be honest with you, I am not reading all that information. I will join the others and play rhino because it’s op. It’s already given that dex set (procs) has advantage over int set. I was pointing out the benefits of dex set over int set. Playing dex mage is fun. Makes it easier to win. Remember that mage and rhino can heal so they have an advantage when utilizing talon proc. Lol tank like a god and heal yourself while you are at it. It’s not broken...it still needs adjustment.



Arena of Honor should be permanent.

Do u recall all the levels with bow bird before l105? They werent able to withstand a nuke from mage or bear without buff and maintain half their health. They are suppose to require kiting skills.

[Mine AGK]

Pvp isnt balanced. The only class that stands a chance vs rhino (IF IT GETS LUCKY PROC) is the bird. Thats IF they get their proc and can nuke fast enough. Other then that, dagger rhino will dominate endgame and will just be boring.

As far as honor arena. Its more balanced then endgame but is still crit/dodge luck based. Its literally twink pvp for L100+. That realy doesnt require much skill either. Birds 3 shot mages, bears 3 shot mages and mages can rarely get a full nuke on a bird in the first combo. I enjoy honor arena but its not as fun as have to strategize and learn when to be aggressive or when to be conservative in endgame.

Now you can say "well just strategize vs dagger rhino." NOPE, thats now how it works vs dagger rhino because of its dash/healing. Its dodge buffs allow it to dodge the majority of anyones repulse/fire/stomp skills to remain at distance. I play bear/mage/bird and have messed around with all classes and even bear cant wall a rhino and nuke it with the axe. The bird has to get lucky with its own proc and can keep the rhino rooted. Thats not skill based pvp. Its not fun for ANY other class other then rhino. Ive seen several people already making rhinos for pvp because the people who already have them, are abusing how broken dagger rhinos are. For everyone to just start turning to 1 class/gear to even try to enjoy pvp ON TOP OF P2W, it will destroy the pvp community faster then pure stats did.

[Waug]

To be honest with you, I am not reading all that information. I will join the others and play rhino because it’s op. It’s already given that dex set (procs) has advantage over int set. I was pointing out the benefits of dex set over int set. Playing dex mage is fun. Makes it easier to win. Remember that mage and rhino can heal so they have an advantage when utilizing talon proc. Lol tank like a god and heal yourself while you are at it. It’s not broken...it still needs adjustment.



Arena of Honor should be permanent.

Do u recall all the levels with bow bird before l105? They werent able to withstand a nuke from mage or bear without buff and maintain half their health. They are suppose to require kiting skills.

Good that u didn't read xD
Dagger rhino op, I also said that :P

Dex mages sacrifies mana, that compensate with dmg they get but then again as said talon proc is tankiest FOR ALL CLASSES not for mage only.
Bird and mage both requires kiting, mage isn't a thing that u can cut slowly bit by bit like what u can do against bear as bird, bcz mage gonna get back heal to full, u got that what I said, no need to explain as u dont read long lines xD and that's true for previous caps.

[Jensmage]

Good that u didn't read xD
Dagger rhino op, I also said that :P

Dex mages sacrifies mana, that compensate with dmg they get but then again as said talon proc is tankiest FOR ALL CLASSES not for mage only.
Bird and mage both requires kiting, mage isn't a thing that u can cut slowly bit by bit like what u can do against bear as bird, bcz mage gonna get back heal to full, u got that what I said, no need to explain as u dont read long lines xD and that's true for previous caps.

What mana is there to sacrifice for mage dex or int set? When MS is initiated by a mage dex or int, mana is pretty useless because it gets depleted so quick. Mage cant rely on mana pool to occur because most of the time it doesn't.

[XghostzX]

I would love to see Arena of Honor Permanent. That’s a capital P my friends.

[Draebatad]

I would love to see Arena of Honor Permanent. That’s a capital P my friends.

Totally agree.

[Waug]

What mana is there to sacrifice for mage dex or int set? When MS is initiated by a mage dex or int, mana is pretty useless because it gets depleted so quick. Mage cant rely on mana pool to occur because most of the time it doesn't.

Of course, you loose some advantages to gain some including that pool proc :)
and for a team int mages does what they meant to do, a team doesn't require a mage to go and tank, mage get killed, team dead rather an int mage is way much more usefull staying behind whole team, healing em and creating water pool where we all can bath and be refreshed and reviving dead team mates xD now tell me what would you choose in a proper team, play as talon mage and go tank or stay behind and doing ks other than those that already I mentioned :3

[Jensmage]

Of course, you loose some advantages to gain some including that pool proc :)
and for a team int mages does what they meant to do, a team doesn't require a mage to go and tank, mage get killed, team dead rather an int mage is way much more usefull staying behind whole team, healing em and creating water pool where we all can bath and be refreshed and reviving dead team mates xD now tell me what would you choose in a proper team, play as talon mage and go tank or stay behind and doing ks other than those that already I mentioned :3

We cant really say int is best for team. Someone during the CTF said Talon is broken. You cant really expect a team that rarely plays CTF to beat an expert team in ctf. Also, we had an int bird. Score was 2-2 at the beginning and we kept getting new players.

2 dex mages and an int bird vs 2 int mage and a bear being able to tie 2-2 is really good. lol

[Waug]

We cant really say int is best for team. Someone during the CTF said Talon is broken. You cant really expect a team that rarely plays CTF to beat an expert team in ctf. Also, we had an int bird. Score was 2-2 at the beginning and we kept getting new players.

2 dex mages and an int bird vs 2 int mage and a bear being able to tie 2-2 is really good. lol

It is but I said in a proper team, means lets say we have bird bear mage, then it's stupidity to tank with a talon mage, int mage best fit. Lets say we have 2 mages, then one might want to tank a bit with talon but even with 2 mages and one bird (lets say) talon bird should be first line of defense :3

Depends but ofc in general an int mage best fit for a team, still holds true.

[Jensmage]

It is but I said in a proper team, means lets say we have bird bear mage, then it's stupidity to tank with a talon mage, int mage best fit. Lets say we have 2 mages, then one might want to tank a bit with talon but even with 2 mages and one bird (lets say) talon bird should be first line of defense :3

Depends but ofc in general an int mage best fit for a team, still holds true.

Dex Mage talon does not require tanking always. They only require tanking when they have captured the flag. Also, int mage has limited space in kiting at CTF fortress. The bird didnt have a talon lol. I asked if he could talon and he said he did not have talon. I believe it was you who was lagging and bow isnt as effective at fortress CTF.