New Miner 100% (Reroll) Luck Potion and Legendary Pistols

[Yurimaru]

I read in another thread that the new pistols drop as secondary loot, something similar to recipes (which I've had drop in this manner) and vanities (I've yet to receive a vanity, unfortunately). My fear: If this is truly the case, and unless I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the luck/reroll elixir works, then purchasing the elixir has no impact whatsoever on the chances of receiving secondary drops -- including the legendary pistols. My understanding of the new miner luck/reroll potion is that there will be a 100% "reroll" chance for "better loot" if your received item is of a certain type (e.g., less than whatever the devs consider to be "good"), and this is based on pre-defined/guaranteed drops (e.g., you always receive AT LEAST ONE ITEM from the Mysterious Figure). So the real questions are whether there is

a "reroll" associated with getting a secondary item if your first roll determined you would NOT receive one;
a reroll if you DO receive a secondary item, like a recipe, to bump to legendary pistol (e.g., what is considered "good" loot for secondary).


Also, I'm assuming that "rerolls" are against the same loot table, such that if you had a 0.01% chance to receive XYZ, you'd have the exact same likelihood on a reroll. Any insights?

[serprus]

I think there is a predetermined "good" item that if you get cancels your reroll because with my 100% luck potion sometimes I didnt get a reroll it just says "Feeling lucky..." and sometimes I would actually reroll for better loot.

[Yurimaru]

I think there is a predetermined "good" item that if you get cancels your reroll because with my 100% luck potion sometimes I didnt get a reroll it just says "Feeling lucky..." and sometimes I would actually reroll for better loot.
Yes, and that goes to whatever the devs define as "good"; what I'm curious about it whether/how the luck elixir impacts SECONDARY items, given that the new pistols drop that way (e.g., NOT guaranteed loot). If the luck elixir only impacts rerolls for "better" loot vs. whether you get a piece of loot item in the first place, well, there's really no point in purchasing the luck elixir if your purpose in doing so is solely to get the pistols. And if the elixir does give a reroll for "no item" scenarios, and does so at the same base chance (hypothetically let's say 1% chance), I've got to think a bit harder about whether 20 plat is worth a "2%" shot within a 30 minute window (even running fast/switching "juiced" toons, etc.).

[Kahlua]

This is exactly the reason I stopped using the new luck elixir. Literally everything you posted I've been saying to people this week lol.
Think I even posted this is another thread somewhere

[BodMaster]

Please read!

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/entry.php?85-How-Luck-Enhancers-Work

[Kahlua]

Bod, if that's the case, then why was I re-rolling oranges on the last boss? I'm referring to the part about how you always reroll one rarity higher. I'm 100% sure the boss doesn't drop whites.

[Rodvik]

eek!

[Reggin]

It's official... Luck elixir won't upgrade a purp to a pink... Just had my second purp drop from MF with no luck message. This means there isn't a higher level item on his normal loot table... Watch it on trash mobs... If they drop green, you won't get pass or fail reroll message since purple loot isn't possible from them.

Upset at the ten luck elixirs I purchased due to the advertisement of improving chance for pistols... Not wasting another plat on them!

[MYNISTA]

Man...Wish I would have known that earlier.

[Ellyidol]

As far as I know, luck elixirs or lucky buffs have never affected the outcome on the secondary rolls (Big Luck in PL, Luck elixirs, etc). So technically, a 100% reroll will not affect the secondary roll also. So yeah, if pistols are from secondary rolls, these new luck elixirs shouldn't affect them at all.

[BodMaster]

It's official... Luck elixir won't upgrade a purp to a pink... Just had my second purp drop from MF with no luck message. This means there isn't a higher level item on his normal loot table... Watch it on trash mobs... If they drop green, you won't get pass or fail reroll message since purple loot isn't possible from them.

Upset at the ten luck elixirs I purchased due to the advertisement of improving chance for pistols... Not wasting another plat on them!

If that boss, wasnt set to drop Pink, then no you will not have a chance. Though if you get a re-roll which should have been a Purple, and you also had the chance to get a Pink on that instance. Then this would/should change a Purple to drop a Pink in all sense.



When a luck enhancer triggers, and the mob is capable of dropping items of one rarity level rarer than the item which would have dropped, you get a random item of the rarer rarity instead.


As far as I know, luck elixirs or lucky buffs have never affected the outcome on the secondary rolls (Big Luck in PL, Luck elixirs, etc). So technically, a 100% reroll will not affect the secondary roll also. So yeah, if pistols are from secondary rolls, these new luck elixirs shouldn't affect them at all.

Elly have you seen the new update though? This has been changed.


Please read!

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/entry.php?85-How-Luck-Enhancers-Work

[Kahlua]

If that boss, wasnt set to drop Pink, then no you will not have a chance. Though if you get a re-roll which should have been a Purple, and you also had the chance to get a Pink on that instance. Then this would/should change a Purple to drop a Pink in all sense.





Elly have you seen the new update though? This has been changed.

Yeah but it hasn't been changed to include secondary drops. People are getting purple drops as their first drop, and not re-rolling for pinks. According to this new system, that is what SHOULD be happening, if the pink drops were indeed on the first wheel. Because it's not, that means they're on the second wheel of items with vanities and recipes. Elixirs won't help get them =\ If this is true, then I feel a little cheated, since the advertising made it seem like the elixirs were basically for getting these new items. All I'm getting is 300 flash guns per level lol :D

I wish a Dev would confirm if this is true or not.

[Ellyidol]

Elly have you seen the new update though? This has been changed.

Yeah, didn't know that the pistols only came from secondary rolls though. From my experience with secondary rolls, I've never had it luckily reroll from a lucky buff.

It's never gone:

You are lucky! - reroll first loot.
You are lucky! - reroll on second loot too.

It's always just been the first one that's rolled. Either the second roll is never supposed to reroll or I've been extremely unlucky - either is very possible D:

[Reggin]

Bod... I've got a lot of respect for you, but instead of directing me to a thread I've obviously read a dozen times, I wish you would just test it the way I spent a couple hours doing.

Mysterious Figure is supposed to have pink loot, as it was clearly stated that he is the only boss that drops the pink pistols. Lets follow some quick logical progression versus what asom's post said is supposed to happen and what ACTUALLY happened twice this very evening.

Given as fact based on those constants... Mysterious Figure has pink loot which is one level higher than purple. With 100% luck elixir, a reroll opportunity will happen if mob has items one level higher on loot table.

My group kills Mysterious Figure and a Plasma Tech Arms purple drops for me initially. Since pink loot exists (so we are told to assume), a reroll should be triggered.

At this point, I can either roll higher and get the message saying you ARE lucky and I should get the pistol, or I can roll lower and get the message saying feeling lucky and just get my original purple loot for not getting a better roll.

Now if you were to actually spend several hundred plat on the elixirs like I did to test this, you would know (regardless of what anyone posts) that neither the successful reroll or unsuccessful reroll message pops up, which can only happen if there is no loot one level higher available from that mob.

Following the logical progression (and previously stated fact from people with pistols who verified pistols dropped in addition to another item like vanities), it is clear that the pistols are on a separate loot table and cannot cause a step up in item levels from the luck elixir the way it has been described.

In all honesty, the improvement to the luck elixir is meaningful for farming purples or items not on special loot tables. However, the impact (if any) on helping farm pink pistols is minimal. Since the elixirs were introduced along with the pistols and cat pets with a specific suggestion to buy luck elixirs to improve chance of getting these new pistols, I feel partially misled.

At the end of the day, if the only reason for purchasing luck elixirs is to farm pink pistols (which is certainly the only reason I bought them and anyone I know bought them), they are still nowhere near worth it.

At 18-20 plat a piece, the most possible kills (under normal conditions) for a single Mysterious Figure kill is 2-3 per elixir. I don't know about you, but I think 6-10 plat per kill for a VERY minimal (if at all) chance for the only possible reason for buying something is not right.

Even if it was just a standard reroll for a 1/1000 chance, that would be a 2/1000 (1/500) chance with the elixir. When looking at the actual numbers, would anyone actually think it was a smart way to spend their valuable plat?

[BodMaster]

Hi Reggin, the re-directed link was for Elly as wasnt sure from his response measured the fact that it had changed. The please read post, was informing everyone of the change, if you check the time I posted it was as pretty much as soon as the info was made public.

Im in the same position as you buddy, every boss run since they had been released I have used a Miner potion. And I still havent seen a Pink. Also agree with the prices of the Miner, as I buy them staight from Market as im going against the boss.

The point I was trying to get across is that if that instance did not have a Pink set to drop, then it wouldnt re-roll just give the Purple instead.

From my understanding of the drops, is that only say (1/200) have the chance to drop, but that does not mean that 1 will drop in say 1000 runs. There may be a Pink to drop in 5/1000 but you were not lucky to even get to that point of dropping them they would most likely only get Purples at the most, though a player that got a Purple if by chance had the potion it might have dropped a Pink. With this Luck Potion provided you are in 5/1000 instances this would bump a Purple to a Pink. Though the 995 other instances wouldnt even have them available so would only drop a Purple.

(Depends what the Dev have put the drop rate at in SY5, from the amount of runs very low in Pink drop in general (Again never witnessed a Pink drop, or have I had a Vanity since Beta [Just my luck])

Maybe I am mistaken, but that is the conclusion have come up with from all that has been said with drop mechanics and what the dev have told us :)

If a team of 5 with Miner potion, had not gotten a pink within that time then I would agree that it is not workin as intended. Though unfortunately I am unwilling to spend the Plat I have left (for leveling my last char to 36) or find a team willing to try this out, would cost alot of Plat and not that beneficial to all players involved.

The only 2 players that I have seen posts, or spoken to regarding how they got a Pink drop stated;

1. Had a re-rolled and got a Pink. (With Miner)

2. Did'nt have any kind of luck available and still got a Pink.

Until more come forward with actual Pink drops its hard to say what the most likely event of a Pink dropping is.

[Kahlua]

The first person who got a pink said he got the reroll message, but didn't say that he got it for the pink drop. He more than likely saw it for the green drop he got.
My understanding is that people are getting purples with NO reroll message at all, meaning there is no improvement possible. If these pink drops were on the same wheel, we would atleast see the message "feeling lucky" or whatever...and then just get the usual purple drop since rolling a pink is probably hard.

[BodMaster]

The first person who got a pink said he got the reroll message, but didn't say that he got it for the pink drop. He more than likely saw it for the green drop he got.
My understanding is that people are getting purples with NO reroll message at all, meaning there is no improvement possible. If these pink drops were on the same wheel, we would atleast see the message "feeling lucky" or whatever...and then just get the usual purple drop since rolling a pink is probably hard.

Yes have witnessed this too, but that only means that there may be an error with the way the 'chat' message is being viewed not a problem with the Miner Potion itself.. =/

[Reggin]

Bod... Seriously? How do you come to the logical conclusion that the chat is broken for a single specific mob instead of coming to the conclusion that pink pistols are on separate loot tables?

If you ever use a luck elixir again (I won't be) just watch what happens when you get a green from a trash mob on initial roll... No message!

Pretty much, with the luck elixir you should always get either the feeling lucky or you are lucky message unless your initial roll gets the top tier loot available on the mobs loot table.

[Slant]

the luck elix isnt a scam, people have been misunderstanding it from the very beggening, it never promised better drops, just another roll, think of it as being able to play the boss twice for every once, that keeps it fair to those who cant buy the elix, and the new elix well, lol, now thats hard to figure out, in the old one, if you dropped say an orange and a reroll kicked in, you got another straight roll, acorss the table so to speak, you could reroll and drop a blue, same as playing the map again and getting a blue... in the new one this roll is guaranteed at a better level, it only kicks in if you kill the mob in question, but if you drop an orange, then the reroll gives you a green - I guess, the elix is meant to be used only at this level where farming greens pays off in the long run... if you do roll a green, maybe you get a purp...

now your post says that it does not pay off when you roll a purp and the elix doesn't reroll and give you a pink, or you expect the elix to guarantee a pink every time you get a purp... dont think they can do this or is fair to those who dont use the elix... but anyway, so what happens when the reroll kicks in when you get a purp drop? does it give you another purp?

uh and ive seen one drop in the chat message, and another drop in the pack, or somebody else's chat message... this happens some times

[Yurimaru]

I guess I'll ask the $64k twofold question directly then, as my OP may not have been clear:

1. Are the MF pink pistol drops considered secondary drops (like recipes) and, if they are,
2. Do luck enhancers give a reroll to GET a secondary if the 1st roll is that you DON'T get one?

[Elyseon]

I think the new elixir is a prank xD

[Sassinya]

I have as yet to even see a pink drop in a group period. I would have assumed prior to reading this thread that the Miner goop would have made it a lot more probable. Thank you all for your hard work, platinum spent and for sharing your findings. I can only speak for myself as a somewhat moderate player, I would have dropped platinum to try and only be disappointed.
Thank you all again for sharing and demonstrating once again why I truly find the forums so helpful.

[Kahlua]

the luck elix isnt a scam, people have been misunderstanding it from the very beggening, it never promised better drops, just another roll, think of it as being able to play the boss twice for every once, that keeps it fair to those who cant buy the elix, and the new elix well, lol, now thats hard to figure out, in the old one, if you dropped say an orange and a reroll kicked in, you got another straight roll, acorss the table so to speak, you could reroll and drop a blue, same as playing the map again and getting a blue... in the new one this roll is guaranteed at a better level, it only kicks in if you kill the mob in question, but if you drop an orange, then the reroll gives you a green - I guess, the elix is meant to be used only at this level where farming greens pays off in the long run... if you do roll a green, maybe you get a purp...

now your post says that it does not pay off when you roll a purp and the elix doesn't reroll and give you a pink, or you expect the elix to guarantee a pink every time you get a purp... dont think they can do this or is fair to those who dont use the elix... but anyway, so what happens when the reroll kicks in when you get a purp drop? does it give you another purp?

uh and ive seen one drop in the chat message, and another drop in the pack, or somebody else's chat message... this happens some times


You're missing our point completely. If you originally roll a purple with the new elixir, there SHOULD be a message popping up saying "feeling lucky" regardless of if your next roll is a pink or not. This happens with greens when you reroll a purple. You see the message, followed by the "and you got lucky!" or whatever with your new drop.

The fact that people are getting purple items with NO reroll message means that this is the best drop the elixir works for, and you cannot reroll for a pink. Meaning it's a secondary drop like recipes and vanities, and is not effected by elixirs.

And Bod...come on. I know you don't want to say anything negative about STS, but really? A problem with the chat system? The odds of it being a chat system error is significantly smaller then it being on a secondary wheel. How else would there be 2 drops? It's on a different roll wheel, that's the only way.

[Slant]

hmm reroll for better loot, wont reroll if the loots not bad, purp loot is not bad, so no reroll, is what im guessing, that aspect of the potion has not been changed, it was like that for the old luck potion as well

[roufus]

I think what bod was trying to say is that at the beginning of the lvl it is decided if a pink will be on the loot table or not

[Kahlua]

hmm reroll for better loot, wont reroll if the loots not bad, purp loot is not bad, so no reroll, is what im guessing, that aspect of the potion has not been changed, it was like that for the old luck potion as well
no, no it's not.
The new elixir has a 100% chance of a reroll if there is a better item to reroll to. If you get a green, there is a 100% chance you have a CHANCE to get a better item (purple or better). If pinks are really on the same drop wheel, getting a purple drop should have a 100% chance at a CHANCE of getting a pink with a reroll. No message popping up means that pinks are on a different drop wheel.

Honestly guys, this is a very simple concept.

[Yurimaru]

The fact that people are getting purple items with NO reroll message means that this is the best drop the elixir works for, and you cannot reroll for a pink. Meaning it's a secondary drop like recipes and vanities, and is not effected by elixirs.

That's exactly what I'd like the devs to clarify for us. :)

[Lucilulu]

The elixir is working one way outside of Mt. Fang, it is working another in Mt. Fang. I would not think this should be the case. I don't think anyone is saying (at least I'm not) that we expect a better role every time, but I do expect the 100% elixir to work as it's intended, which is to re-roll for better loot each and every time better loot is available. If this is being done behind the scenes in Mt. Fang runs (which is strange because you still get the re-roll message on every other map) I would just like to know. If not, it needs to be fixed. I know I have gone through at least 150-200 plat on the 100% elixirs that I believe are doing nothing ATM, but hopefully I am wrong.

[BodMaster]

I think what bod was trying to say is that at the beginning of the lvl it is decided if a pink will be on the loot table or not

Thanks for simplifying that simple, but important concept :)


If pinks are really on the same drop wheel, getting a purple drop should have a 100% chance at a CHANCE of getting a pink with a reroll. No message popping up means that pinks are on a different drop wheel.

Honestly guys, this is a very simple concept.

If what people like Phys and such have worked out is correct then in say 1/1000 runs should there be a Pink on that instance.

Why would any/all Purple change to 100% chance in getting a Pink, if that instance was'nt in say the 1% of dropping in Pink SY?

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree and wait for a Dev to solve this :p

[Kahlua]

It doesn't matter what the 1/whatever is. It can be a .000001% chance of a pink. That's still a chance and should still be granted the text "feeling lucky." As long as there is a chance, there should be a reroll. Will you probably roll that number? No, the odds are extremely low. Should there be a reroll anyways? If that's what the elixir is designed to do, then yes.

[Slant]

lol ok i finally get it ok,
i read the description and never expected purps to reroll for better drops,
if theres no reroll for purps idk what that means in the sense that pinks are on a diff table or purps are not considered bad enough for a reroll

[Samhayne]

Hey gang,

We're working on additional improvements to the new Luck Enhancers / Elixirs. We will have more details when the next changes come out.

[Hullukko]

Why would any/all Purple change to 100% chance in getting a Pink, if that instance was'nt in say the 1% of dropping in Pink SY?

Well, maybe because that's what asommers said. It was his choice to use "is capable of dropping". Well mr mysterio most certainly is capable of dropping a pink. Then based on what asommers said, one would expect to see a initial purple rerolled into a pink. I know it's too good to be true, and I know the pinks drop as secondary drops, but that's what he said. And so did flip.

So why is it so hard to call it what is? The devs made a mistake. They were a little inaccurate in their description. Happens. To us, too. Ain't the first time, won't be the last, we'll get over it. Fix is imminent. Now move along.

Just forget about the 1% chance and all that nonsense, because it has nothing to do with what description asommers and flip gave for the patched luck elixir.


Think we are going to have to agree to disagree and wait for a Dev to solve this :p

That is something that global warming denialists often say when evidence is asked to back up their assertions.

[Kahlua]

Can we atleast know now if the legendary drops are on a different wheel and if enhancers directly effect our chances? Would like to know before I go spending more plat...


@Hullukko - global warming is a scam, it snowed a foot here in October and then was in the 70s for a full week 3 days later. WEATHER FAIL.

[Yurimaru]

Hey gang,

We're working on additional improvements to the new Luck Enhancers / Elixirs. We will have more details when the next changes come out.
Thanks for the update Sam! I'm assuming by the lack of confirmation one way or the other that the pink guns, at present, are indeed secondary drops that are not in the loot tables impacted by luck enhancers as they are currently programmed?

[BodMaster]

It doesn't matter what the 1/whatever is. It can be a .000001% chance of a pink. That's still a chance and should still be granted the text "feeling lucky." As long as there is a chance, there should be a reroll. Will you probably roll that number? No, the odds are extremely low. Should there be a reroll anyways? If that's what the elixir is designed to do, then yes.

Granted..

1. Green 1st item, Purple 2nd item. That Green would never show the system would disregard.. but should say "You are lucky" and get the 2nd item Purple. (The error I talked about)

2. Though you get a Purple this should change to a Pink I get that. Though the Pink was not set to drop so you get a Purple but the message isn't showing. (Another error I talked about)

Only way around this is for STS change this so that if you have Miner potion active then you should at least drop another Purple if the Pink was not possible to drop in that instance as it was out of the % runs.

(The system was set not to drop that Pink, so it goes to Purple because its the highest possible rarity in that instance which in turn doesn't reroll)


Hey gang,

We're working on additional improvements to the new Luck Enhancers / Elixirs. We will have more details when the next changes come out.

Thanks Sam, look forward to the improvements.

[Samhayne]

Thanks for the update Sam! I'm assuming by the lack of confirmation one way or the other that the pink guns, at present, are indeed secondary drops that are not in the loot tables impacted by luck enhancers as they are currently programmed?

There are a lot of moving parts to how loot works and it is structured a bit differently between Pocket Legends and Star Legends. Rather than have me take a shot at describing at how it is currently working, I'm waiting on the real nitty gritty to come from the programmers and what the latest changes they are putting in.

Thanks for your patience.

[Kahlua]

@Bod

-.-

You're not getting what I'm saying. If it rerolls to THE SAME COLOR it still says "feeling lucky" regardless if the drop is better. With the old elixir, say you get a green. If it says nothing, it means there was no reroll. If it says "feeling lucky" and you just get a drop, it means that you rerolled, but the outcome wasn't any better than the initial roll. If you see "feeling lucky...and you were lucky!" or whatever the phrase is, it means you rerolled, and your second roll was a better item, and you get that item instead. If it rerolls to a purple from a purple, you see "feeling lucky" and get the purple drop. That just means you didn't roll higher, which would be a pink. If it doesnt say ANYTHING it means the elixir didn't do anything (like with the 25%). If the odds are 100% chance to reroll, you still see the message that you're "feeling lucky." It is not an error to just see the second item you got. That's how it works. It shows you the new item. If you get a purple after a reroll, it means you rolled something below (with the old elixir.) With the new elixir, it means you rolled a green and rerolled a purple. If the percentage is 1%, you still reroll for that 1%. If no message shows, then there is no reroll, and the item is on another item wheel that rolls by itself, separate from the first.

I really don't know how to put it any easier. It isn't a wording error on STS's part. It's that on the normal drop wheel, purple is the best item for this boss. You can't go any higher. It's kind of the same for the pink drops in slouch-o. They dropped from random mobs. They were probably also on the second wheel for that map too.

[Barrington]

has anyone gotten a grey drop on an elixir?

100% chance its a single tier better than what you would have gotten

[MYNISTA]

There are a lot of moving parts to how loot works and it is structured a bit differently between Pocket Legends and Star Legends. Rather than have me take a shot at describing at how it is currently working, I'm waiting on the real nitty gritty to come from the programmers and what the latest changes they are putting in.

Thanks for your patience.

If it turns out that pinks were not even able to drop/re-roll (if you got a purple drop from MF) to those using the Miner potion "AFTER" the last update...will it be possible to get our plat refunded? I used 80 plat on potions last night (4 pots). Just wondering...

[Rolocoaster]

If it turns out that pinks were not even able to drop/re-roll (if you got a purple drop from MF) to those using the Miner potion "AFTER" the last update...will it be possible to get our plat refunded? I used 80 plat on potions last night (4 pots). Just wondering...
yes im wondering the same

[Samhayne]

If it turns out that pinks were not even able to drop/re-roll (if you got a purple drop from MF) to those using the Miner potion "AFTER" the last update...will it be possible to get our plat refunded? I used 80 plat on potions last night (4 pots). Just wondering...

Mynista, if you feel that your plat spent on luck elixirs / enhancers was not well spent, please contact our support team either via e-mail to support(at)spacetimestudios.com (replace the (at) with the @ symbol) or via http://support.spacetimestudios.com. We're always happy to discuss the issue with our customers.

[Kahlua]

yes im wondering the same
I wouldn't bet on it. Although it may be flawed, we did get better drops for every other drop, and I know I got some purples from greens...even though they weren't good purples lol. So I'm sure we did net SOME credit profit, but maybe STS is feeling super generous? :D

[Reggin]

Let me demonstrate the math behind the point I'm trying to make... First off, I'm a partner at one of the top wealth management firms in the country that manages around $800 million in client assets. I do probability analysis and statistical modeling all day long. I'm going to give hypothetical numbers for the purpose of this example.

Lets assume this is MFs loot table based on a 1-100 scale:
1-40: orange
41-80: green
81-98: purple
99-100: pink

Assume my first roll is a 72... The luck elixir grants a 100% reroll. If I roll anything below a 72, I get the green I was originally entitled to and get the feeling lucky message. If I roll 73, I get one level higher, which should give me a purple and a you are lucky message.

If my first roll is an 83, I'm entitled to another roll and a purple. If the second roll is below that, I should get a feeling lucky message and a purple. If I roll an 84, I should get a level higher and you are lucky messsge, which should mean a pink.

This still requires a back to back high purple roll, which is only a 16% chance at a pink. While this is still unlikely, it beats the 2% base chance or chance with the old elixir.

Regardless of anyone's opinions, this is a direct example of what the explanation given on how the new elixir works assuming a single loot table.

The problem is that pinks are very clearly on a secondary loot table like vanities and recipes, and the players are not privy to the math behind the loot tables.

Flame me for negativity if you want, but my argument is based on mathematical fact and not personal opinion. And while I'm clearly negative on this issue, there is no doubt I support STS as I'm pretty sure the hundreds (soon to be over $1000) that I've paid for the entertaining product they make puts me in the top 5% (probably 1%) of revenue generating players.

I'm positive on a ton of other issues and am just a brutally honest, call it how it is, person. It's why my clients respect me and entrust me with their life savings!

[Kahlua]

Blah blah Things I agree with blah blah



^^This^^

Couldn't agree more, and thank you for putting the math in a more comprehensive way lol

[Reggin]

In regards to the refund issue, I hope it happens since I spent hundreds of plat just testing this stuff for everyone, but I'm not going to gripe if not.

STS has been very generous in the past, especially after the shared plat fiasco caused by Apple. I won't be whining to customer support, but would be very grateful if there was a refund or partial refund.

[MYNISTA]

Mynista, if you feel that your plat spent on luck elixirs / enhancers was not well spent, please contact our support team either via e-mail to support(at)spacetimestudios.com (replace the (at) with the @ symbol) or via http://support.spacetimestudios.com. We're always happy to discuss the issue with our customers.

Thx, It's no big deal, if it's not something that you all will be generally considering then I'm not concerned. I did get a couple of GOOD purple drops during my runs last night, so it's cool. I was just curious. I was just hoping that the pots gave me a better chance of getting a pink drop :)

[Yurimaru]

Thx, It's no big deal, if it's not something that you all will be generally considering then I'm not concerned. I did get a couple of GOOD purple drops during my runs last night, so it's cool. I was just curious. I was just hoping that the pots gave me a better chance of getting a pink drop :)

I know the feeling, I spent a lot already on luck enhancers (more than 80 plat, alas), and need clarification here to decide better whether to spend more.

[Samhayne]

In regards to the refund issue, I hope it happens since I spent hundreds of plat just testing this stuff for everyone, but I'm not going to gripe if not.

STS has been very generous in the past, especially after the shared plat fiasco caused by Apple. I won't be whining to customer support, but would be very grateful if there was a refund or partial refund.

Reggin, it's not whining, we love to hear from you! No, seriously. At this point we're not planning for a full refund script, but instead to discuss the issue on a one by one basis. So, if you feel that the plat you've spent on Luck Enhancers / Elixirs was not well spent, we welcome you to write us (support@spacetimestudios.com or via http://support.spacetimestudios.com) and let us know.

[FluffNStuff]

Let me demonstrate the math behind the point I'm trying to make... First off, I'm a partner at one of the top wealth management firms in the country that manages around $800 million in client assets. I do probability analysis and statistical modeling all day long. I'm going to give hypothetical numbers for the purpose of this example.

Lets assume this is MFs loot table based on a 1-100 scale:
1-40: orange
41-80: green
81-98: purple
99-100: pink

Assume my first roll is a 72... The luck elixir grants a 100% reroll. If I roll anything below a 72, I get the green I was originally entitled to and get the feeling lucky message. If I roll 73, I get one level higher, which should give me a purple and a you are lucky message.

If my first roll is an 83, I'm entitled to another roll and a purple. If the second roll is below that, I should get a feeling lucky message and a purple. If I roll an 84, I should get a level higher and you are lucky messsge, which should mean a pink.

This still requires a back to back high purple roll, which is only a 16% chance at a pink. While this is still unlikely, it beats the 2% base chance or chance with the old elixir.

Regardless of anyone's opinions, this is a direct example of what the explanation given on how the new elixir works assuming a single loot table.

The problem is that pinks are very clearly on a secondary loot table like vanities and recipes, and the players are not privy to the math behind the loot tables.

Flame me for negativity if you want, but my argument is based on mathematical fact and not personal opinion. And while I'm clearly negative on this issue, there is no doubt I support STS as I'm pretty sure the hundreds (soon to be over $1000) that I've paid for the entertaining product they make puts me in the top 5% (probably 1%) of revenue generating players.

I'm positive on a ton of other issues and am just a brutally honest, call it how it is, person. It's why my clients respect me and entrust me with their life savings!

This is an excellent description of how the elixir USED to work. It does not take into account the supposed new changes though stated here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/entry.php?85-How-Luck-Enhancers-Work). According to that, using your examples:
Your first roll uses a range of 1-100, and you roll a 72. Now your second roll ~should~ use a range of 81-98 [or 81-100, depending on exactly how it works, whether it is "will always be one rarity better" or "will always be at least one rarity better".
If your first roll is a 25, your second roll ~should~ use a range of 41-80 [or 41-100].

The first question is "Is this what is actually happening" and the second question is Are pinks 98-100 on the main loot table, or is there a second loot table with:
1-80: Nothing
81-85: Vanity Hat
86:97: Recipe
98-100: Pink Gun

Hopefully these questions will be answered in the details Sam stated are coming.

[Hullukko]

Regardless of anyone's opinions, this is a direct example of what the explanation given on how the new elixir works assuming a single loot table.


But since we already know that pinks drops in sy5 have come as secondary drops (like recipes) why on earth would assume a single loot table because all your work rests on that and the observations do not support it.

And this or that, you fail to take into factor what asommers and flip said about the new elixir. Both said guaranteed one-rarity level more rare is the mod drops that rarity. (which is where the mistake was made I believe).

A far more likely scenario goes as follows. The evidence:
1) Unenhanced I have got dozens of varios single drops from orange to purps from mr mysterio
2) Unenhanced I have gotten a purple shield followed by a secondary drop of a purple recipe. This evidently is very rare, as I've only ever witnessed that once that one time that I got it.
3) Unenhanced I have gotten an orange drop, poly boots maybe, followed by a secondary drop of a pink gun called electrorazed
4) Enhanced I have gotten oranges raised to greenes with a luck related message.
5) Enhanced I have gotten a green from normal enemies that only drop up to greens having not been raised to anything and no luck related comment.
6) I have heard numerous reports of greenes having been raised to purples with luck related messages.
7) There are several people here claiming that they've now received a purple drop which, was not superseed nor followed by any luck comment nor a secondary drop. And this with the new enhancer which was supposedly guaranteed to raise the rarity by one if the mob drops that elevated rarity.
8) There is one person saying that he got his pink as a secondary drop with a luck message, but this is one time deal and I wouldn't bet on it that the luck message weren't tied to the first of his drops. This is highly uncertain at best.

Granted 6 and 7 are not facts, but as both are backed up by multiple sources, I see no reason to doubt either of them.

That is most simply explained with two tables:
1-50: orange
51-95: green
96-100: purple

1-97: nothing
98-99: a recipe
100: a pink

(there are also vanities at play, and they may be a part of this secondary table or be in a table of their own, after all they drop everywhere, this we do not know and it's not really an issue here)

That rarity level of the first throw is clearly enhanced not only with a mere second attempt (as it initially were I presume), but with elevated a class all together. Should you roll a 55, you're getting a drop from the purple table instead of the green.

Now, the second table is clearly different. Obviously the nothing drop is not raised to recipes, because we'd get recipes all the time. Whether the recipe drop is perphaps elevated to to pink should it occur in the first place is uncertain.

That is my bet on the system and is supported by the evidence a lot more than a single table explanation.

This also would go a long way explaining why sts got their description wrong in the first place. The luck enhancer is a hook tied to those first drops. And since they didn't want to make it automatically drop secondaries in sy5 that nothing was dealt differently. So in a sense it's not wrong to say that a rarity level of a drop is raised automatically, but when they should've said "of that one roll" they instead didn't want to talk about secondaries and said "if that mob drops that elevated rarity" (loosely quoted).

The sad part is that pinks is all that people were after with the enhancers and pinks are dropped by that mysterious boss in sy5, so people were not at all wrong when expecting to see their purp drops elevated to pinks in sy5 (because that's what a description given by two different sts reps clearly stated would happen).

Little inaccuracy in description, easy mistake to make. Massive fuss. :-) And like I said earlier, fix is imminent. Gj sts and thanks for the unenhanced pink.

[octavos]

place a minor variation of these guns in plat store....so ppl can still get it....and if your brave buy the plat to get the spacial boss drop ones. :D

ppl love exclusive items and/or the "Off brand looking ones" I know I do. i prefer the plat store

My reasons for plat store should be more focused on!

1. instant gratification
2. anyone can get it
3. still help STS
4. less complaining
5. Non-sellable only u can have it
6. ppl can say where did you get that? and you can say u can get one too
7. less complaints on forums about drops.
8. this is a PVE environment not PVP
9. in next update they can be passed to ur lower level alts.
10. you can be with the in group.

:Biggie:
11. if you want to be special (different looking), buy vanity (Xray good example)....no matter the level
you will always look fantastic.

[rookizpro]

buy a vanity huh if they werent so expensive pple could u have to think about that besides pl has more to offer in looking diff from other players sl needs more armor and more stuff like pl they plus re rolls would help low lvs if there was better loot for them to nad there isnt the re roll table is impressive theorys though now to bad lower lvs re rolls a worthless because its only green they can get and how dose the vanity fit n on the drop re roll because pple left that out ???

[roufus]

Ha ha

[Reggin]

To Fluff,

Yes, technically you are correct on that post, but quite frankly, that would almost be too good. At least my analysis would create some rarity for pinks still.

In fact, based on the way it is worded it could be taken as a reroll isn't even needed, as it would just mean your loot level is automatically improved.

[FluffNStuff]

To Fluff,

Yes, technically you are correct on that post, but quite frankly, that would almost be too good. At least my analysis would create some rarity for pinks still.

In fact, based on the way it is worded it could be taken as a reroll isn't even needed, as it would just mean your loot level is automatically improved.

This all comes down to does the wording represent the actual mechanics of the elixir, or is there a miscommunication between programmers and the support staff. For PL (eliminating the 'is an SL pink a secondary drop' controversy) this could easily be tested. Suck down a 20 plat elixir and do a bunch of runs in the last level of Skeller Krunch. Since the ~minimum~ a boss there drops is a purple, if this is working as stated, then EVERY boss drop should be a pink. Granted, I am not about to spend 20 plat for a bunch of Skeller pinks ;)

[Slant]

Star Legends Twitter account said they are gonna make additional changes to teh luck elix, so post what changes you would like to see in this thread... way to keep it simple

[Slant]

lol, ninjad (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?42902-1.1-Content-Update-(73918))
meh

[Rodvik]

Ya seems to be more effective now. Now everyone can have a Legendary Item! Thats always fun! Weeeee