Rework the hawkens talon proc

[Idevour]

The hawken talon is being used by every class because of the OP proc. 10k health, 1k armor, and the increased dodge gives the user 8 seconds of invinsibility. I suggest the proc adds 100 hit, 50 crit, and 150 dmg so that it would better suit the a birds role.

A birds role is to kill not to tank everything.

[Jilsponie]

+1 good luck... This topic has been brought up before, although I suggested switching the talon proc and sword proc. Both to help birds kill, and help bears in 1v1 situations without making them ridiculously op in team play.

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[Mine AGK]

The hawken talon is being used by every class because of the OP proc. 10k health, 1k armor, and the increased dodge gives the user 8 seconds of invinsibility. I suggest the proc adds 100 hit, 50 crit, and 150 dmg so that it would better suit the a birds role.

A birds role is to kill not to tank everything.

In all honesty, this is avoidable just by kiting. Regardless of class, its very easily avoidable. If they have OP enchants, maybe not so much. I see no problem with the talon proc.

[Bats]

10k HP & armor? Way too crazy. I don't see any other proc being anywhere close to this. Probably this is why I wonder I see so much unskilled mages turning to talon so that they could exploit it's proc stats.

I agree that birds need more damage instead of this armor.

[Idevour]

In all honesty, this is avoidable just by kiting. Regardless of class, its very easily avoidable. If they have OP enchants, maybe not so much. I see no problem with the talon proc.

In 1v1s this is true but when you play a ctf match in rockwall vs 2 talon mages it is extremely annoying due to the fact that you cant really stop them from continuously reviving each other. And a talon class can tank 5 people in 5v5 maps.

I know it has been brought up in the past but it should continue to be brought up until the proc is changed.

Also the cheap players who get the talon proc up then quickly change to bow for an easy kill is very lame and should be changed.

[Jilsponie]

In 1v1s this is true but when you play a ctf match in rockwall vs 2 talon mages it is extremely annoying due to the fact that you cant really stop them from continuously reviving each other. And a talon class can tank 5 people in 5v5 maps.

I know it has been brought up in the past but it should continue to be brought up until the proc is changed.

Also the cheap players who get the talon proc up then quickly change to bow for an easy kill is very lame and should be changed.I haven't seen anyone doing that yet, but it doesn't surprise me...

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[Mine AGK]

In 1v1s this is true but when you play a ctf match in rockwall vs 2 talon mages it is extremely annoying due to the fact that you cant really stop them from continuously reviving each other. And a talon class can tank 5 people in 5v5 maps.

I know it has been brought up in the past but it should continue to be brought up until the proc is changed.

Also the cheap players who get the talon proc up then quickly change to bow for an easy kill is very lame and should be changed.

This is why i agree with class restrictions as it would bring back skilled 1v1 more and would cause people who play dagger rhinos or dex mages to actually play their class. This is why i enjoyed 100 cap with 4pc. It was balanced aside from mage being easily nuked by bird and bear. Rhino was still extremely broken but required skill to play woth 4pc.

Though with the though of str rhinos in 5v5 ctf, ive already experienced this. It is not fun at all because of how tanky rhinos are in a 5v5 situation with another mage. It makes them extremely OP.

[Jensmage]

The hawken talon is being used by every class because of the OP proc. 10k health, 1k armor, and the increased dodge gives the user 8 seconds of invinsibility. I suggest the proc adds 100 hit, 50 crit, and 150 dmg so that it would better suit the a birds role.

A birds role is to kill not to tank everything.

The weak side of using talon is the proc doesn't occur often and the player cant summon the proc when they want it to occur.

The dev should not try to focus on 5 classes and focus on the main 3 classes only. Have Rhino and Fox contribute less to PVP. Going to be hated by some but oh well.. The amount of time spent on tuning PVP takes too long with 5 classes. Too many variables to focus on. By the time we have a decent PVP at endgame, the new sets will be released and we might have to repeat the process all over again on tuning PVP. Bear is broken while we talk about Talon.

[Draebatad]

169413

See above ^^

[Cinco]

169413

See above ^^

Nope. Thanks for playing :-)

[Dolloway]

Nope. Thanks for playing :-)

Sir, you seem like you're in a bad mood today. I'm getting a lot of negative energy from you that I haven't seen in quite sometime.

I hope you're okay and that you have a pleasant day. :)

If you ever need to talk I'm here for you, friend.

[XghostzX]

I really haven’t been having any issues playing against talon builds. Just kite, kite, and nuke when there is an opening. I personally think that the talon set is a great set for ‘noobs’ to learn with. They’ll start realizing it becomes too inconsistent vs other sets (like bow and wand).

@Cinco — Here for you as well, buddy.

[Mine AGK]

I really haven’t been having any issues playing against talon builds. Just kite, kite, and nuke when there is an opening. I personally think that the talon set is a great set for ‘noobs’ to learn with. They’ll start realizing it becomes too inconsistent vs other sets (like bow and wand).

@Cinco — Here for you as well, buddy.

Exactly. Its not hard to play vs talon set. Even when people have OP enchants on all their pieces, its still easy to kill. Though i can agree its a bit annoying when people play talon on all classes in a 3v3 or 5v5 situation. It makes the whole game full of procs and not skill. Its just like str rhinos in teams being extremely op.

[XghostzX]

Exactly. Its not hard to play vs talon set. Even when people have OP enchants on all their pieces, its still easy to kill. Though i can agree its a bit annoying when people play talon on all classes in a 3v3 or 5v5 situation. It makes the whole game full of procs and not skill. Its just like str rhinos in teams being extremely op.

Yeah, fights can be a bit tedious when the other team is stacked with talon sets — doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more difficult, just simply annoying and unusually long.

[Jensmage]

Yeah, fights can be a bit tedious when the other team is stacked with talon sets — doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more difficult, just simply annoying and unusually long.

Even with a talon team (2 talon mages, 2 talon bird and int mage), The team you were on was able to win 10-3 5v5 ctf yesterday.

There are limitations on talon set to be honest.
1) Proc doesnt guarantee that it will occur
2) Mage talon cant heal others well.
3) The amount of dmg/skill is reduced on mage.
4) Mana is useless on talon mage


Yup, its not necessarily more difficult. Its just a different PVP style players are trying.

[XghostzX]

Even with a talon team (2 talon mages, 2 talon bird and int mage), The team you were on was able to win 10-3 5v5 ctf yesterday.

There are limitations on talon set to be honest.
1) Proc doesnt guarantee that it will occur
2) Mage talon cant heal others well.
3) The amount of dmg/skill is reduced on mage.
4) Mana is useless on talon mage


Yup, its not necessarily more difficult. Its just a different PVP style players are trying.

Yeah, honestly that CTF game yesterday really proved that talon sets aren't all that OP.

[Fwend]

From a farming point of view, the talon proc is so beneficial.

The blue gaurdians hit so hard, and its an instant one hit kill if you are do not have the correct gear on. The defensive procs of the 1-h weapons are much needed to counter the new campaign - The Mad Mages Maze.

Pvp wise yes, end game pvpers will be all drawn towards the set and class that gives you an advantage over choices.

However, the CTF tourney hosted by Ghost has revived CTF arenas and as pointed out, it is not just one on one and now its more team based type of play, and the classes, sets and enchantments do not effect over all CTF team experience and skill.

[Draebatad]

Yes, procs are great for pve! As for end game ctf being revived, there's zero ctf games in action right now (and only two arena games) for the 105 zone - ctf games are actually quite rare compared to the old days, even with this ctf tourney going. The biggest turnout for pvp action in years was for the pvp guild event, which Reborn helped PC win and that was arena, not ctf. That was also a lot of fun. Hopefully more people get into pvp this summer, as it can get rather stale otherwise.

[Congeniality]

I really haven’t been having any issues playing against talon builds. Just kite, kite, and nuke when there is an opening. I personally think that the talon set is a great set for ‘noobs’ to learn with. They’ll start realizing it becomes too inconsistent vs other sets (like bow and wand).

@Cinco — Here for you as well, buddy.

Having always played as a fox vs. a talon set, I previously had found it to be udder-ridiculousness to try to fight (I have 0% chance of winning). That being said, after reading this and getting the perspective of another class (mages just kiting it out), I now find that talon proc may just be a necessary evil to better balance the fox from being able to kill everything.

So thank you for your perspective! :)

P.S. I see that someone thinks I am being sarcastic, and I'm honestly not lol. Sorry if it comes across that way, it isn't my intention.

-Walie

[yannjoel]

I now find that talon proc may just be a necessary evil to better balance the fox from being able to kill everything.

Mother of sarcasm :O

But seriously:
I think that the fox problems arn't based on the opness of talon proc.
Fox just isn't as good in (endgame) pvp as the other classes. That's a topic in itself which also was discussed multiple times.

[Idevour]

Mother of sarcasm :O

But seriously:
I think that the fox problems arn't based on the opness of talon proc.
Fox just isn't as good in (endgame) pvp as the other classes. That's a topic in itself which also was discussed multiple times.

Foxes are a lot better than people think they are.
Now of course foxes cant handle a 2v1 aswell as the other classes BUT they are not designed to do so, foxes can do what they are supposed to do very well. The fox class is supposed to be an assassin.

If you are not paying attention and you get hit by a fox that knows what they are doing you will die. The other 4 classes you could recover and still win.

[yannjoel]

I liked fox in honer set pvp.
But as soon as the other team had a bear it became pretty hard - especially because of stuns

[Congeniality]

I liked fox in honer set pvp.
But as soon as the other team had a bear it became pretty hard - especially because of stuns

That's where the fun for me begins! I used to hate facing bears when I first started playing fox. But after 50+k fights 1 on 1 that last about 3-5 seconds, I found that facing a bear in a teamfight actually makes the class a lot more interesting to play, and makes your successful assassinations feel much more rewarding.

That being said, the skill ceiling for fox is higher than ever before, and it is causing people to dislike the class. Unlike other classes, I would say it takes several thousand fights to finally start figuring out how to play it properly in endgame.

Nonetheless, I don't want to derail the original topic and steal the thread from the original poster. Talon proc is interestingly strong, but I think it honestly balances fox out. With the evasion armor buff, fox is much more successful with an extra second or two to live, and thus able to get assassinations more consistently if played correctly.

P.S. I die a lot because I am the squishiest class at endgame, but I am yet to get less than 26 kills in a single Nexus game, even when the rest of my team is getting under 10. The class is very good at killing things, as I believe it should be. But I also die about 30-40 times for every 20-30 kills, so it feels balanced to me.