Making Mage Ultimates Better

[Kaziscate]

Recently, I've been pondering about why the ultimates aren't as great as they could be. I've also been wondering about how ultimates can be better. I main a mage and don't really touch warriors and rogues (they're just extra inventory for me) so I'm not familiar with the abilities on those two classes. So that's why I'm just focusing on the mage ultimates (I'd be interested in hearing how you guys feel about the other classes' ultimates though). I don't PvP so input on ultimates in PvP would be appreciated.

Energize is a great ultimate to use because it just makes you and everyone else attack much faster and lets your team do a ton of DPS in a short amount of time. It is also a consistent skill.

Meteor Strike is meh,but it's a great ultimate for killing bosses in lower level areas in places like underhul and graveyard. In endgame, it's mediocre. It drops enemies' hp down to half and eats a pretty small portion of hp when fighting a boss. A really big issue with this ultimate is that it is inconsistent in effectiveness. Having a big damage range of,for reference,40k-110k is just way too big.

Grand Protection isnlike Curse. You would never use it in PvE (in its current state). Yeah it helps you survive longer, but it can be effective if Arcane Shield or Nekro's AA is active,though I feel like it doesn't last long enough. Once your shield goes away, Grand Protection goes away as well (if you're fighting an average-sized group of mobs in swamp).


So how do you fix Meteor Strike and Grand Protection?

For Meteor Strike, narrow down the damage range. The max damage is fine,but the min damage is way too low. Doubling the min damage will help make Meteor Strike more consistent. Also decreasing the cooldown by 25% will make it worth the wait.

For Grand Protection, making it absorb 50% more damage will help make it last longer. Cutting its cooldown in half would help make up for its lack of offense.

How do you guys feel about the effectiveness of ultimates so far?

[Motherless_Child]

Recently, I've been pondering about why the ultimates aren't as great as they could be. I've also been wondering about how ultimates can be better. I main a mage and don't really touch warriors and rogues (they're just extra inventory for me) so I'm not familiar with the abilities on those two classes. So that's why I'm just focusing on the mage ultimates. I don't PvP so input on ultimates in PvP would be appreciated.

Energize is a great ultimate to use because it just makes you and everyone else attack much faster and lets your team do a ton of DPS in a short amount of time. It is also a consistent skill.

Meteor Strike is meh,but it's a great ultimate for killing bosses in lower level areas in places like underhul and graveyard. In endgame, it's mediocre. It drops enemies' hp down to half and eats a pretty small portion of hp when fighting a boss. A really big issue with this ultimate is that it is inconsistent in effectiveness. Having a big damage range of,for reference,40k-110k is just way too big.

Grand Protection isnlike Curse. You would never use it in PvE (in its current state). Yeah it helps you survive longer, but it can be effective if Arcane Shield or Nekro's AA is active,though I feel like it doesn't last long enough. Once your shield goes away, Grand Protection goes away as well (if you're fighting an average-sized group of mobs in swamp).


So how do you fix Meteor Strike and Grand Protection?

For Meteor Strike, narrow down the damage range. The max damage is fine,but the min damage is way too low. Doubling the min damage will help make Meteor Strike more consistent. Also decreasing the cooldown by 25% will make it worth the wait.

For Grand Protection, making it absorb 50% more damage will help make it last longer. Cutting its cooldown in half would help make up for its lack of offense.

The min and max damage is based on whether or not it's "critical".......

If you want to have a low "crit" mage with high health and armor, you are going to get the "low end" meteor damage, most likely....

Just based on my observation/testing..... But, your frustration is understood......

[Abuze]

Think the damage that the ults do it decent as it should be, nothing game breaking.
The issue that I mostly see is the CD for ults.
Lets start with mages meteor ult, as you said it does bring mobs down to half HP which is great after doing a good pull but that's about it. Just a 10sec faster pull isn't game changing.
What I suggest like many others is to decrease the ULTs their CD example let mages be able to do at least 2 to 3 times their meteor ult.
Mages are the one that have to be the ones doing the most AoE damage so letting the meteor ULT have a low CD balances their role.

As for the Warriors I can't say much.

For Rogues(not including timerunners) the only worth passive is the offensive one, Rogues should be the one to dish out most single target damage so this is perfect but again the CD is the issue, having a shorter CD on this ULT won't be a big game changer bit it helps out a bit, example if there ever comes a time where we need to focus X mob first.

Also I don't exactly know if Devs have replied to this but some of the ULT animations are just :sorrow: hopefully we can get some really wow ult animations.

[thekragle]

Ultimates just don't feel all that "ultimate". They are good, yes, but I feel like I save it for the boss and therefore don't use it that much. And when I do use it, it's like "meh". That was kinda cool I guess. I wish it was more effective in some way. Something worthy of the Ultimate name.

[Motherless_Child]

Ultimates just don't feel all that "ultimate". They are good, yes, but I feel like I save it for the boss and therefore don't use it that much. And when I do use it, it's like "meh". That was kinda cool I guess. I wish it was more effective in some way. Something worthy of the Ultimate name.


I respectfully agree......

I do like the rogue speed boost ultimate when I am a recipient but, the reason "why" I like it sometimes seems to be too complicated for my PT members......

[Motherless_Child]

Think the damage that the ults do it decent as it should be, nothing game breaking.
The issue that I mostly see is the CD for ults.
Lets start with mages meteor ult, as you said it does bring mobs down to half HP which is great after doing a good pull but that's about it. Just a 10sec faster pull isn't game changing.
What I suggest like many others is to decrease the ULTs their CD example let mages be able to do at least 2 to 3 times their meteor ult.
Mages are the one that have to be the ones doing the most AoE damage so letting the meteor ULT have a low CD balances their role.

As for the Warriors I can't say much.

For Rogues(not including timerunners) the only worth passive is the offensive one, Rogues should be the one to dish out most single target damage so this is perfect but again the CD is the issue, having a shorter CD on this ULT won't be a big game changer bit it helps out a bit, example if there ever comes a time where we need to focus X mob first.

Also I don't exactly know if Devs have replied to this but some of the ULT animations are just :sorrow: hopefully we can get some really wow ult animations.

Yeah... The "cooldown" is a huge issue because it resets every time a player leaves a map........

It would be "cool" to have the ultimate progress bar fill without "map exiting" interruption.......... Let it continuously build.... No reset.... = better ultimate experience.... Just my opinion.....

[Kaziscate]

Think the damage that the ults do it decent as it should be, nothing game breaking.
The issue that I mostly see is the CD for ults.
Lets start with mages meteor ult, as you said it does bring mobs down to half HP which is great after doing a good pull but that's about it. Just a 10sec faster pull isn't game changing.
What I suggest like many others is to decrease the ULTs their CD example let mages be able to do at least 2 to 3 times their meteor ult.
Mages are the one that have to be the ones doing the most AoE damage so letting the meteor ULT have a low CD balances their role.

As for the Warriors I can't say much.

For Rogues(not including timerunners) the only worth passive is the offensive one, Rogues should be the one to dish out most single target damage so this is perfect but again the CD is the issue, having a shorter CD on this ULT won't be a big game changer bit it helps out a bit, example if there ever comes a time where we need to focus X mob first.

Also I don't exactly know if Devs have replied to this but some of the ULT animations are just :sorrow: hopefully we can get some really wow ult animations.

They're working on making better animations for ultimates

[Kaziscate]

I respectfully agree......

I do like the rogue speed boost ultimate when I am a recipient but, the reason "why" I like it sometimes seems to be too complicated for my PT members......

I like that ultimate too since its no mana costs works nice with energize and the speed buff is pretty cool, but I feel kinda conflicted on whether or not it could use a bit more like a crit buff for everyone.

[Motherless_Child]

I like that ultimate too since its no mana costs works nice with energize and the speed buff is pretty cool, but I feel kinda conflicted on whether or not it could use a bit more like a crit buff for everyone.


Yeah... That's why I "suggested" more of a visual with the ultimates.... It = better coordination...... STS said they "ARE" working on that so, I personally will give that particular issue more time.....

A crit buff would be sick..... LOL... I'd drink to that....

[Motherless_Child]

I like that ultimate too since its no mana costs works nice with energize and the speed buff is pretty cool, but I feel kinda conflicted on whether or not it could use a bit more like a crit buff for everyone.


Also... That's the "only" time the mage "energize" buff is good for rogue........ Without the %0 mana cost, the energize may be too quick for rogue, seeing as that 2-3 attacks basically depletes a rogue's mana completely.....

[PsychoNuke]

+1 to OP.
I am only using Support Ult, and I save it for boss, the burst damage is amazing. Grand Protection is really meh, I don't see any scenario for it. Meteor is useless on same level bosses hence there should not be a damage range, only keep the highest. Ultimates are intended to be fun, lowering their recharge rate should be considered.

@Thread: The issue with keeping the Ultimates charged after remap is that then Rogue's Support Ultimate could be misused for timed runs.

PS: I see the ultimates ready to use in Towns every once in a while. As well as sometimes its ready to use if I respec in an active map too. Anyone else see this?

[Motherless_Child]

+1 to OP.
I am only using Support Ult, and I save it for boss, the burst damage is amazing. Grand Protection is really meh, I don't see any scenario for it. Meteor is useless on same level bosses hence there should not be a damage range, only keep the highest. Ultimates are intended to be fun, lowering their recharge rate should be considered.

@Thread: The issue with keeping the Ultimates charged after remap is that then Rogue's Support Ultimate could be misused for timed runs.

PS: I see the ultimates ready to use in Towns every once in a while. As well as sometimes its ready to use if I respec in an active map too. Anyone else see this?

LOL... Yeah... My ultimate recharges in "Towns" all the time........... LOL.... Sometimes I activate "meteor ultimate" in town in an attempt to destroy everyone..... It always fails... LOL......

[Abuze]

Ult have different ways of charging up.. As mentioned in the thread, I believe it's Over time/Damage done and Damage taken.

[Rauitri]

Ult has 4 parameters/variables that Devs mentioned. Contributing to an enemy kill, damage given, damage recieved, and passively ( while in combat ), just like how samael / mishi activates its aura, when they're exposed to a threat. In which case is the mobs.

The way that this works is all those is considered a proc or stack to the ultimate, ultimates need 100 stacks to charge it. So recharge rate depends on your purpose in the map as well as which map. Shorter maps will not fully charge the ult as there are too little mobs.

Only way to increase the rate of how ultimates charge, they must lessen the total stacks, lets say 80 from 100. Or adding more parameters/variables into contributing for stack/s.



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[Suentous PO]

Id be more inclined to try it again if it didn't cost 10 points, that's too much for something to work in some maps but not others

[Alwarez]

Replace "when you kill mobs" to "when your party kills mobs" requirement to charge ulti

[Kaziscate]

Ult has 4 parameters/variables that Devs mentioned. Contributing to an enemy kill, damage given, damage recieved, and passively ( while in combat ), just like how samael / mishi activates its aura, when they're exposed to a threat. In which case is the mobs.

The way that this works is all those is considered a proc or stack to the ultimate, ultimates need 100 stacks to charge it. So recharge rate depends on your purpose in the map as well as which map. Shorter maps will not fully charge the ult as there are too little mobs.

Only way to increase the rate of how ultimates charge, they must lessen the total stacks, lets say 80 from 100. Or adding more parameters/variables into contributing for stack/s.



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The second way of getting stacks is getting the killing blow on an enemy. From what I've seen,kills guarentee a stack,taking damage is a chance to give a stack,and you don't have to be in combat to get charges over time (which takes an enternity).

[Rauitri]

The second way of getting stacks is getting the killing blow on an enemy. From what I've seen,kills guarentee a stack,taking damage is a chance to give a stack,and you don't have to be in combat to get charges over time (which takes an enternity).Ive said those above "contributing to an enemy kill" as well as taking dmg, also stated above. What I want to add is that DOT massively increases charging time, nm aegis or magma charges it way faster, thats what some noticed.

About the combat, yes we have all observed by now that you dont have to be in combat to charge. But thats wierd, as nothing stated that being static will charge it whatsoever at a default rate.

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[PsychoNuke]

LOL... Yeah... My ultimate recharges in "Towns" all the time........... LOL.... Sometimes I activate "meteor ultimate" in town in an attempt to destroy everyone..... It always fails... LOL......


Ult has 4 parameters/variables that Devs mentioned. Contributing to an enemy kill, damage given, damage recieved, and passively (while in combat)

Right, the bug is that I don't have to meet those perquisite to charge and use my Ultimates. I can just map and stand at the starting area of the map and wait for it to charge and get ready to use. I am able to reproduce this at will in any map/town.

The funny part is that the time it take to charge standing idle is somewhat equal to the time it takes to charge doing things xD
@Devs please look into it, there is a miss somewhere...

[Rauitri]

Right, the bug is that I don't have to meet those perquisite to charge and use my Ultimates. I can just map and stand at the starting area of the map and wait for it to charge and get ready to use. I am able to reproduce this at will in any map/town.

The funny part is that the time it take to charge standing idle is somewhat equal to the time it takes to charge doing things xD
@Devs please look into it, there is a miss somewhere...


Right, the bug is that I don't have to meet those perquisite to charge and use my Ultimates. I can just map and stand at the starting area of the map and wait for it to charge and get ready to use. I am able to reproduce this at will in any map/town.

The funny part is that the time it take to charge standing idle is somewhat equal to the time it takes to charge doing things xD
@Devs please look into it, there is a miss somewhere...

Yes, we can conclude that this infact is a bug. Standing in town, our Ultimates charge, this is weird as there shouldn't be any subsequential process that are occuring if these parameters aren't met, perhaps coding was involved? So that just being active will charge it regardless.

And yes, Devs do need to look at this matter, as what I can think out of this bug being abused is it being used against timed lb. There they are, standing in the Forest, 4 rogs patiently waiting for their Ultimates to be charged, and finishing it within 10secs or less, after the patch of this bug, that record is never to be beaten again. You guys get my point.

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