View Full Version : Can we get the MOST BROKEN thing in pvp fixed ASAP?
Instead of talking about different balance issues, time to talk about the MOST BROKEN thing to fix, it's such game breaking mostly in team play ffa/ctf I'm sure even current tourney members (oldschool fair players) wont disagree to get it fix as if the current tourney is a concern.
Yest 1k armor and 10k talon proc with ANY CLASS is the worst thing, pls change it to something like 200dmg and 200 armor, talon set need a dmg boost anyway and 200 armor is fine.
If we going further abit right now, then nerfing dagger proc would be second next best thing.
Soupah
07-15-2018, 10:21 AM
105 sets should be class bound tbh mages with mana Shield and talon proc is crazy
Instead of talking about different balance issues, time to talk about the MOST BROKEN thing to fix, it's such game breaking mostly in team play ffa/ctf I'm sure even current tourney members (oldschool fair players) wont disagree to get it fix as if the current tourney is a concern.
Yest 1k armor and 10k talon proc with ANY CLASS is the worst thing, pls change it to something like 200dmg and 200 armor, talon set need a dmg boost anyway and 200 armor is fine.
If we going further abit right now, then nerfing dagger proc would be second next best thing.
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105 sets should be class bound tbh mages with mana Shield and talon proc is crazy
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Talon proc* u see what u said there, talon proc is itself CRAZY, once it's fixed, we don't need items to be class bound.
Idevour
07-15-2018, 01:01 PM
Talon proc* u see what u said there, talon proc is itself CRAZY, once it's fixed, we don't need items to be class bound.
100% agree i think this has been brought up many times now, talon proc needs a rework.
Congeniality
07-16-2018, 10:45 AM
Right now playing against talon set feels like a stat check.... For example, if they have the proc up with op stats, they beat you 100% of the time. If they don't have the proc up, whoever has the better stats has the advantage. Since the proc is up 75% of the time, it feels a little too easy to lost against talon set.
Iamxmayhem
07-16-2018, 02:42 PM
Hmmm I agree waug. Talon procs shield kinda takes the strategy away.. really everyone just spams auto and relies on the shield. Which is easy to evoid by the only player with any experience once so ever. The 200 damage boost mages get from wand proc is a pretty successful boost. I think it’s the one thing talon set is missing as well. All in all birds weren’t meant to be Tanky, putting out a lot of damage rather is what we’ve been use to.
Mine AGK
07-16-2018, 02:45 PM
The only way to fix this without ruining the talon proc is to make L105 gear class based. I actually enjoy the talon proc, especially in pvp for when people are doing team play without a bear or just in general. It makes i fun and forces people to change play styles.
Draebatad
07-16-2018, 02:48 PM
The op just wants changes made that will be of personal benefit? What one person or group wants, other people or groups don't want. Learn to play in your procs and around other player's procs and you'll be fine. Kite when you need and move in when they're vulnerable. Keep in mind there's an end game ctf tourney going on now, too.
Draebatad
07-16-2018, 02:53 PM
One thing that could use a buff is the 105 elite staff! Usability is key, and that's not the case at the moment. Needs much more damage.
Mine AGK
07-16-2018, 02:58 PM
The op just wants changes made that will be of personal benefit? What one person or group wants, other people or groups don't want. Learn to play in your procs and around other player's procs and you'll be fine. Kite when you need and move in when they're vulnerable. Keep in mind there's an end game ctf tourney going on now, too.
Thats one thing i love about this cap. it forces people to change play styles in both teamplay and 1v1
Instead of keeping to the same routine of play styles, it makes us switch it up. Its really fun
The op just wants changes made that will be of personal benefit?
Game breaking things can't be personal, that effects everyone who does pvp in a skillfull way.
Do u even understand that -
- Talon proc is a invincibility proc with +1k armor & 10k Hp boost?
- Procs are random, you can never guess when it can pop up, that diminish the scope of countering it mostly?
- which classes should tank in a ffa/ctf? the intended class (talon for bird) even shouldn't tank?
- what happens when in a 2/3 vs 2/3 everyone uses talon?
- Broken rhino with a broken talon invincibility during the period of proc, it kills opponent, also in ffa it ruins everything?
What one person or group wants, other people or groups don't want.
It's not a event/vanity proposal so that, it gonna full fill everyone's desire, it's a balance tweak which ONLY MEANT TO BE FAIR & SKILL FULL not to satisfy everyone & not to satisfy the that can't get kills in a fair situation or can't perform in ffa/ctf in a fair environment, then "learning" is required not criticizing in depth pvp posts in the forum.
Learn to play in your procs and around other player's procs and you'll be fine. Kite when you need and move in when they're vulnerable.
Learn to play? coming from someone who never even visit arena, last time I saw you arena was in 100 cap with gun rhino sitting behind guidies and that for one game 5 mins, that the first time ever I saw you in the pvp arena. I watched you to comment in pvp related topics, that's fine even a 1 day pvper can portrait their view over pvp in the forums, but how funny it get when that become so much illusive when that person try to portrait their imaginative way of teaching.
Do some pvp first? do some real ffa? if you would do some ffa in the past caps you would get some basic concept of class based teamplay ffa, class roles and basic things rather than proposing a imaginative way of dealing with procs.
Keep in mind there's an end game ctf tourney going on now, too.
It was in my mind, even I stated that in my original post, as I already said, those players who are experienced doing ctf/ffa in the old caps (most of the caps, in fact, all the caps other than gun and proc age caps) can't disagree with me, they know it's not fine it twist ctf/ffa like never before.
During 71 tourney enchnment was introduced, and this time, a broken thing can't be fixed during a tourney?
Thats one thing i love about this cap. it forces people to change play styles in both teamplay and 1v1
Instead of keeping to the same routine of play styles, it makes us switch it up. Its really fun
Says the one who describe honor PvP as lucky crit, in the history of pl, crit dodge etc always have been under 100 (old caps for crit)
It's clear where the motivation coming from, you literally kick everything that u don't like to fight in game, or leave if it's not going ur way, how could u know a good class based ffa, if u got to do ffa against talon classes, u would b one to come and complain in the forums lol. Even in 5v5 u kick specific class with typical reason lel, and somebody from u guild blame my post to be personal interests. How funny.
Mine AGK
07-16-2018, 10:23 PM
Says the one who describe honor PvP as lucky crit, in the history of pl, crit dodge etc always have been under 100 (old caps for crit)
It's clear where the motivation coming from, you literally kick everything that u don't like to fight in game, or leave if it's not going ur way, how could u know a good class based ffa, if u got to do ffa against talon classes, u would b one to come and complain in the forums lol. Even in 5v5 u kick specific class with typical reason lel, and somebody from u guild blame my post to be personal interests. How funny.
I kick teamers and specific classes that require no skill. (Dagger/bow rhinos, bow/talon mages, dagger/bow bears) the only class that requires skill with dagger is fox. With mage/rhino/bear, no skill is required yet people still manage to fail at pvping. Exactly why im fighting more for class specific gear. It forced people to learn their class and not use gear to make them OP so they need no skills to pvp in the first place.
My comparison for honor arena is that is twink pvp for L100+ because its crit/dodge luck based. Thats a fact. I can full combo a bird with ice/drain/light/fire and the bird could die, but i could possibly get 1 crit out of all of those even if i have buffs. Not to mention that birds could dodge the whole combo if they get lucky, which is my premise for the statement in the first place. Bears are extremely tanky vs birds and mages even after being debuffed.
Mine AGK
07-16-2018, 10:29 PM
Says the one who describe honor PvP as lucky crit, in the history of pl, crit dodge etc always have been under 100 (old caps for crit)
It's clear where the motivation coming from, you literally kick everything that u don't like to fight in game, or leave if it's not going ur way, how could u know a good class based ffa, if u got to do ffa against talon classes, u would b one to come and complain in the forums lol. Even in 5v5 u kick specific class with typical reason lel, and somebody from u guild blame my post to be personal interests. How funny.
As far as personal interests. I see no problem with that statement. Let me ellaborate.
I have yet to see ANYONE complaining about the talon proc being OP ever since it got balanced out when it was first op because of it have no cooldown. The only people who have complained about it being OP, is you. One other person complained about it being annoying when a full 3v3 or 5v5 game is nothing but talons because its all just shields up the whole time. This once again, is why im fighting for CLASS SPECIFIC GEAR so people have to learn their class, balance out dagger rhinos still being broken and even addressing the whole problem with a full match of nothing but talon procs.
I kick teamers and specific classes that require no skill. (Dagger/bow rhinos, bow/talon mages, dagger/bow bears) the only class that requires skill with dagger is fox. With mage/rhino/bear, no skill is required yet people still manage to fail at pvping. Exactly why im fighting more for class specific gear. It forced people to learn their class and not use gear to make them OP so they need no skills to pvp in the first place.
My comparison for honor arena is that is twink pvp for L100+ because its crit/dodge luck based. Thats a fact. I can full combo a bird with ice/drain/light/fire and the bird could die, but i could possibly get 1 crit out of all of those even if i have buffs. Not to mention that birds could dodge the whole combo if they get lucky, which is my premise for the statement in the first place. Bears are extremely tanky vs birds and mages even after being debuffed.
As far as personal interests. I see no problem with that statement. Let me ellaborate.
I have yet to see ANYONE complaining about the talon proc being OP ever since it got balanced out when it was first op because of it have no cooldown. The only people who have complained about it being OP, is you. One other person complained about it being annoying when a full 3v3 or 5v5 game is nothing but talons because its all just shields up the whole time. This once again, is why im fighting for CLASS SPECIFIC GEAR so people have to learn their class, balance out dagger rhinos still being broken and even addressing the whole problem with a full match of nothing but talon procs.
According to u everything you can't beat requires no skill, if same class same setup no proc beats you then it's lucky crit even if everyone has 100+ crit -
169547
169548
169549
(3rd ss, here? :O strange)
You do pvp in a pretty narrow way, only reason u do some 5-5ctf nexus to do practice tourney, other than that you do all kick unfavour things or leave, the fact is you have no problem killing a talon bird in a 1-1 situation bcz as a whole it's underpowered and a mage can easily kite and stay full with superb heal and proc and kill easily a talon bird when proc is gone, it's easiest thing to do. U kick rhinoes on see, how would you even know that rhino with talon is even harder to kill. Same goes to a 2/3 vs 2/3 where talon proc is more unfriendly, you ddon't even do that, you would realise the consequences.
After getting killed by bow mage you tried bow mage and quickly back to int then you realized, bow mage is weak in general and tweaked your tactics as int vs bow mage, fact.
I'm not the only one, many did complained about talon proc. I won't oppose item being class bound but then it is ALSO NECESSAY to balance other classes, u can take away talon dagger bow etc from other classes but then you'll have to strengthen em to be viable with their own class specific gear and for the person who complains about lucky crit in 100+ all crit era, how can he/she justify the SUPERB luck factor of procs? answer this my frnd.
Muzzling
07-17-2018, 12:04 AM
Instead of talking about different balance issues, time to talk about the MOST BROKEN thing to fix, it's such game breaking mostly in team play ffa/ctf I'm sure even current tourney members (oldschool fair players) wont disagree to get it fix as if the current tourney is a concern.
Yest 1k armor and 10k talon proc with ANY CLASS is the worst thing, pls change it to something like 200dmg and 200 armor, talon set need a dmg boost anyway and 200 armor is fine.
If we going further abit right now, then nerfing dagger proc would be second next best thing.
Bro all u use is dex set... on all toons
Draebatad
07-17-2018, 12:06 AM
The talon is fine as-is. The 105 staff needs work to match the bow (but that's in another thread).
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 12:43 AM
According to u everything you can't beat requires no skill, if same class same setup no proc beats you then it's lucky crit even if everyone has 100+ crit -
169547
169548
169549
(3rd ss, here? :O strange)
You do pvp in a pretty narrow way, only reason u do some 5-5ctf nexus to do practice tourney, other than that you do all kick unfavour things or leave, the fact is you have no problem killing a talon bird in a 1-1 situation bcz as a whole it's underpowered and a mage can easily kite and stay full with superb heal and proc and kill easily a talon bird when proc is gone, it's easiest thing to do. U kick rhinoes on see, how would you even know that rhino with talon is even harder to kill. Same goes to a 2/3 vs 2/3 where talon proc is more unfriendly, you ddon't even do that, you would realise the consequences.
After getting kill by bow mage you tried bow mage and quickly back to int then you realized, bow mage is weak in general and tweaked your tactics as int vs mage, fact.
I'm not the only one, many did complained about talon proc. I won't oppose item being class bound but then it is ALSO NECESSAY to balance other classes, u can take away talon dagger bow etc from other classes but then you'll have to strengthen em to be viable with their own class specific gear and for the person who complains about lucky crit in 100+ all crit era, how can he/she justify the SUPERB luck factor of procs? answer this my frnd.
Lol 100 cap pvp? Depending on the timing of the ss, it was whoever spammed their drain/light/fire first won? Lol k. 3 or 4 skills in mage fights was all it was during 100 cap before pure stats and the armors.
Never once did i say that just because i cant beat someone it makes them OP. Even people with OP enchanted gear have very hard times beating a rhino/bear using a dagger. Dagger is broken on the classes that can get easily close to you and just tank damage. I get that a tank is supposed to take damage but with the dagger, it takes that to a whole new level. Rhino is more broken with dager because it has a heal and drain skill.
The reason why i always say dex mages that play talon/bow takes no skill is because it doesnt. Heres why:
Talon has more crit and much more hit%. Can do tons of damage and doesnt sacrifice any for using dex. Not to mention the crit buff it also gets.
Talon proc combined with mages heal makes the mage invulnerable for 7 seconds and they can simply heal the damage they take while in their proc
Bow has 13 range and with its proc combined with a mages healing ablities, it destroys any chance of kiting.
Bows proc in and of itself has a broken proc. It destroys any type of defenses regarding trying to heal or fire the enemy away so you can regain hp.
Mage doesnt have to sacrifice heal if they use any amount of dex since the new healing mechanics. Our ho being so high, cinco decided to add armors that gives us insane amounts of hp all starting when he tried to balance out pure stats at 100. This carried over to 105 and we have the same thing, my heal could be on 1 and still gain 1k hp back along with between 300-450hp for ever second after that. There is no loss for healing if you play any other set on mage besides int due to this newer healing system.
In adressing that i used bow mage, never once have i used dex mage other then in pve when my friend was borrowing my int set in the first solo pve event. I also didnt have a bow at that time, so thats incorrect.
Now saying that other sets need balancing for their respected classes? Have you seen a str rhino? Have you seen a dagger fox? Although i can admit bear needs some tweaking when it comes to a bit more armor or dodge for its set. You can still destroy any class with bear if you PLAY AROUND ITS PROC the axe can be amazing as its proc stacks and can completely destroy anyones hit/crit.
Str rhinos are tankier then anything right now and i get that thats what they were designed to do. They are extremely fine where they are for being str rhinos.
Dagger foxes are completely viable classes now with getting increased skill damage recently. Ive fought skilled foxes and given that foxes are still somewhat at a disadvantage vs a mage. They can destroy birds/bears and maybe even rhinos (havent seen one fight a STR rhino).
As far as "lucky procs" go. The only proc thst really saves anyones life is the talon proc. Now given that mages proc gives an insane regen on mana which i would find very helpful especially vs a bow bird after the mage MS. The luck of procs can be easily figured out. Ive surely figured it out and have stated it many time from the beginning when everyone first started even complaining about them. Check some of my posts, you may be able to find my comments about procs.
Lol 100 cap pvp? Depending on the timing of the ss, it was whoever spammed their drain/light/fire first won? Lol k. 3 or 4 skills in mage fights was all it was during 100 cap before pure stats and the armors.
Never once did i say that just because i cant beat someone it makes them OP. Even people with OP enchanted gear have very hard times beating a rhino/bear using a dagger. Dagger is broken on the classes that can get easily close to you and just tank damage. I get that a tank is supposed to take damage but with the dagger, it takes that to a whole new level. Rhino is more broken with dager because it has a heal and drain skill.
The reason why i always say dex mages that play talon/bow takes no skill is because it doesnt. Heres why:
Talon has more crit and much more hit%. Can do tons of damage and doesnt sacrifice any for using dex. Not to mention the crit buff it also gets.
Talon proc combined with mages heal makes the mage invulnerable for 7 seconds and they can simply heal the damage they take while in their proc
Bow has 13 range and with its proc combined with a mages healing ablities, it destroys any chance of kiting.
Bows proc in and of itself has a broken proc. It destroys any type of defenses regarding trying to heal or fire the enemy away so you can regain hp.
Mage doesnt have to sacrifice heal if they use any amount of dex since the new healing mechanics. Our ho being so high, cinco decided to add armors that gives us insane amounts of hp all starting when he tried to balance out pure stats at 100. This carried over to 105 and we have the same thing, my heal could be on 1 and still gain 1k hp back along with between 300-450hp for ever second after that. There is no loss for healing if you play any other set on mage besides int due to this newer healing system.
In adressing that i used bow mage, never once have i used dex mage other then in pve when my friend was borrowing my int set in the first solo pve event. I also didnt have a bow at that time, so thats incorrect.
Now saying that other sets need balancing for their respected classes? Have you seen a str rhino? Have you seen a dagger fox? Although i can admit bear needs some tweaking when it comes to a bit more armor or dodge for its set. You can still destroy any class with bear if you PLAY AROUND ITS PROC the axe can be amazing as its proc stacks and can completely destroy anyones hit/crit.
Str rhinos are tankier then anything right now and i get that thats what they were designed to do. They are extremely fine where they are for being str rhinos.
Dagger foxes are completely viable classes now with getting increased skill damage recently. Ive fought skilled foxes and given that foxes are still somewhat at a disadvantage vs a mage. They can destroy birds/bears and maybe even rhinos (havent seen one fight a STR rhino).
As far as "lucky procs" go. The only proc thst really saves anyones life is the talon proc. Now given that mages proc gives an insane regen on mana which i would find very helpful especially vs a bow bird after the mage MS. The luck of procs can be easily figured out. Ive surely figured it out and have stated it many time from the beginning when everyone first started even complaining about them. Check some of my posts, you may be able to find my comments about procs.
Dang somewhere you described L100 is good example lel, you're filtering everything out and getting really very narrow range as said earlier. All old level cap is lucky crit /dodge for you and at L100 it's 3-4 hit but not though, it's funny. So your basically saying this cap is the ONE AND ONLY fine cap (says it all) with class bound JUST BECAUSE you know int mage is op with all that high heal and proc well enough to kill every other class with class specif gear. It was already clear in the "nerf dagger" thread lol, nothing new.
Talon the intended class bird is not meant for such tanking neither this invincibility proc is meant for any class, get that fact straight. This alone fact is enough.
Dolloway
07-17-2018, 02:07 AM
I don't know, d00dz.
I agree with parts of what each of you say, but pvp threads tend to always turn into irrelevant debates about being a better pvper and that's the argument as to why Cinco should listen to you.
"i'm better than u in pvp so this is y cinco should listen to me"
"no i'm better than u. i have ss to prove it!"
"yeah well that cap was skill less luck. i beat u at caps that mattered"
"no u suck. oyster class takes no skill"
"lies. oyster class is the most difficult class to play"
---
I also hate making changes to gear/sets in the middle of a tourney (the enchantment change to the 71 tourney really irked me and I wasn't even in the tourney), so I'll refrain from commenting right now. I expect this thread to get locked if it continues to escalate and there is a lack of respectful discussion though, so I would keep that in mind.
I don't know, d00dz.
I agree with parts of what each of you say, but pvp threads tend to always turn into irrelevant arguments about being a better pvper and that's the argument as to why Cinco should listen to you.
"i'm better than u in pvp so this is y cinco should listen to me"
"no i'm better than u. i have ss to prove it!"
"yeah well that cap was skill less luck. i beat u at caps that mattered"
"no u suck. oyster class takes no skill"
"lies. oyster class is the most difficult class to play"
---
I also hate making changes to gear/sets in the middle of a tourney (the enchantment change to the 71 tourney really irked me and I wasn't even in the tourney), so I'll refrain from commenting right now. I expect this thread to get locked if it continues to escalate and there is a lack of respectful discussion though, so I would keep that in mind.
Before joking on everything you should actually read these things tbh. The ss are not to prove that who is better, its on purpose that how "lucky crit" has been used by him in different aspect.
Joking on a topic and then talk about "lack of respectfull discussion" is a nice combination or contradictory?
On a side note, it's not a skillful tourney either, it's all about a sneaking win tourney in a broken environment.
Dolloway
07-17-2018, 03:12 AM
Before joking on everything you should actually read these things tbh. The ss are not to prove that who is better, its on purpose that how "lucky crit" has been used by him in different aspect.
Joking on a topic and then talk about "lack of respectfull discussion" is a nice combination or contradictory?
On a side note, it's not a skillful tourney either, it's all about a sneaking win tourney in a broken environment.
Yes, that was really evident based on your third screenshot. No undertone whatsoever.
Yes, that was really evident based on your third screenshot. No undertone whatsoever.
Lel if by any way if ur lil bit jelly of what circle said get any of ur members say it for u and u can make lot of ur own thread with that xD I won't even read/ comment on those threads .....have fun.
Dolloway
07-17-2018, 03:52 AM
Lel if by any way if ur lil bit jelly of what circle said get any of ur members say it for u and u can make lot of ur own thread with that xD I won't even read/ comment on those threads .....have fun.
Yes, that is totally what I meant by my comment. I'm very jealous of you, Waug.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 07:20 AM
There’s so many complaints on forums nowadays just because of PvP, everyone here needs to understand that we are in the middle of a tournament and sets, classes, etc. do not need to be changed, people have been working hard to move up in this tournament and don’t have time to completely change strategies due to the fact it’s just everyone arguing in here. The talon proc in my personal opinion is easy to counter, has a 8 second cooldown plenty of time to kill the person as it sits. Maybe experiment a little and find a way to win instead of coming to the forum whenever you lose to something, everything has a weakness.
Let it rest guys :)
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 07:48 AM
There’s so many complaints on forums nowadays just because of PvP, everyone here needs to understand that we are in the middle of a tournament and sets, classes, etc. do not need to be changed, people have been working hard to move up in this tournament and don’t have time to completely change strategies due to the fact it’s just everyone arguing in here. The talon proc in my personal opinion is easy to counter, has a 8 second cooldown plenty of time to kill the person as it sits. Maybe experiment a little and find a way to win instead of coming to the forum whenever you lose to something, everything has a weakness.
Let it rest guys :)
No one said change it immediately. Its just like the 100 cap tourney. They nerfed rhino after the tourney was over. No ones calling for immediate action on "class specific" gear.
As far as everything having a weakness
Dagger bears weakness is not having the charge skill.
As far as rhino, the only weakness it has with dagger is that if it doesnt proc in time. Rhinos can tank all the damage it wants to before it procs and destroy any sort of kiting for either birds or mages. The only class weakness it has (not even a class weakness, just luck based) is a talon bird getting its proc in the middle of being proced by the dagger. Even then the rhino can just run away and play off the birds proc.
As usual, you come to forums to more less beg not to get a nerf on rhino or to get class based gear because know how broken dagger rhinos are.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 07:52 AM
No one said change it immediately. Its just like the 100 cap tourney. They nerfed rhino after the tourney was over. No ones calling for immediate action on "class specific" gear.
As far as everything having a weakness
Dagger bears weakness is not having the charge skill.
As far as rhino, the only weakness it has with dagger is that if it doesnt proc in time. Rhinos can tank all the damage it wants to before it procs and destroy any sort of kiting for either birds or mages. The only class weakness it has (not even a class weakness, just luck based) is a talon bird getting its proc in the middle of being proced by the dagger. Even then the rhino can just run away and play off the birds proc.
As usual, you come to forums to more less beg not to get a nerf on rhino or to get class based gear because know how broken dagger rhinos are.
I’ve come to the point where I’m done listening to your irrelevant comments and raging at me because of a PvP grudge. I won’t reply to anything you say nor give you any attention like you desire at this point. :)
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 08:02 AM
Before joking on everything you should actually read these things tbh. The ss are not to prove that who is better, its on purpose that how "lucky crit" has been used by him in different aspect.
Joking on a topic and then talk about "lack of respectfull discussion" is a nice combination or contradictory?
On a side note, it's not a skillful tourney either, it's all about a sneaking win tourney in a broken environment.
Back at 100 cap for 4pc mages. Fights were determined by whoever could spam drain/light/fire the fastest. Thats if neither party dodged. Though to respond to me using "lucky crit" in different aspect. Never once have i said it during this cap. Never once have i said it other then an obvious small portion of conversation. Even then, a mage could get no crit in the first combo (which usually determined the fight mage vs mage) ive fought countless people during that cap and it had a "lucky crit" component to it just like twink pvp does. In any fight that only needs 3 or 4 skills to someone, it should come to no surprise that whoever spams skills and gets the best crit or even dodges is more likely the winner in short fights like that.
Now compare a 3-4 skill fight to a 105 fight other then dagger. Even those last longer then 100 caps did. People have to play around procs, 3 skills doesnt win a fight for any class and that kills any type of "lucky crit" component.
Talon proc isnt OP. I vote for class specific gear.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 08:08 AM
I’ve come to the point where I’m done listening to your irrelevant comments and raging at me because of a PvP grudge. I won’t reply to anything you say nor give you any attention like you desire at this point. :)
Kinda ironic that you cant give any contructive feedback on any thread regarding how something is broken Op (I.E. dagger rhinos) its all shutdown mode from there.
Ive criticised why certain classes are OP with specific gear and even said why these classes dont require skill. Hence my push for class specific gear. It will balance out pvp more in the 1v1 aspect. (Which after this tourney, pvp will continue to be played as) Although tweaking for a str rhino being crazy tanky in teams is always another issue that could be fixed later if needed.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 08:17 AM
I don't know, d00dz.
I agree with parts of what each of you say, but pvp threads tend to always turn into irrelevant debates about being a better pvper and that's the argument as to why Cinco should listen to you.
"i'm better than u in pvp so this is y cinco should listen to me"
"no i'm better than u. i have ss to prove it!"
"yeah well that cap was skill less luck. i beat u at caps that mattered"
"no u suck. oyster class takes no skill"
"lies. oyster class is the most difficult class to play"
---
I also hate making changes to gear/sets in the middle of a tourney (the enchantment change to the 71 tourney really irked me and I wasn't even in the tourney), so I'll refrain from commenting right now. I expect this thread to get locked if it continues to escalate and there is a lack of respectful discussion though, so I would keep that in mind.
Im not saying anyone is better then anyone else. Ive pointed out my reasons on why specific classes with gear require no skill to play and have yet for anyone to respond to it with their own reasoning as to why they are or are not.
This has been my stance from the beginning when cinco talked about balancing rhino and buffing fox. Class specific gear is the last option to try now as dagger rhino wasnt effected by its nerf and remains broken.
There’s so many complaints on forums nowadays just because of PvP, everyone here needs to understand that we are in the middle of a tournament and sets, classes, etc. do not need to be changed, people have been working hard to move up in this tournament and don’t have time to completely change strategies due to the fact it’s just everyone arguing in here. The talon proc in my personal opinion is easy to counter, has a 8 second cooldown plenty of time to kill the person as it sits. Maybe experiment a little and find a way to win instead of coming to the forum whenever you lose to something, everything has a weakness.
Let it rest guys :)
Talon rhino has NO WEAKNESS in a short span of time where it can jump to enemy and kill it.
I don't think anybody can beat a dagger/bow rhino with a bow mage other than me xD that's where there is scope of some class, but beating a talon rhino, IS NOT POSSIBLE. In a ffa, it's just worst.
It's irony that how if one other rhino even with an int set (because he doesn't have other sets) got u as opponent in a ffa, you say this -
169553
why? because as a rhino, you know it well, how extremely it's ez to kill opponent sitting behind a steel wall.
Save ur irony for game pls not here, thanks.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 09:44 AM
Talon rhino has NO WEAKNESS in a short spam of time where it can jump to enemy and kill it.
I don't think anybody can beat a dagger/bow rhino with a bow mage other than me xD, but beating a talon rhino, IS NOT POSSIBLE. In a ffa, it's just worst.
It's irony that how if one other rhino even with an int set get as u as opponent in a ffa, you say this -
169553
why? because as a rhino, you know it well, how extremely it's ez to kill opponent sitting behind a steel wall.
Save ur the irony for game pls, thanks.
That was stated because the rhino that was on your team was across the map but on my screen he was right next to me, I don’t use it as an excuse, it’s a common problem on STS side that hasn’t really been brought up, it’s not only rhino it’s also fox it’s a problem, the dashing classes tend to teleport here and there for whatever reason. You made this post purely out of spite, trash talking everyone that disagrees with you. Beating talon anything is very easy with the right amount of kiting and knowing when to nuke, save your rage for the game. In FFA Paladins are easily killable considering I am the most experienced with that class in PvP at this time, I know how it goes. Also, talon rhino takes forever to kill anything, enchants play a role and also in FFA we have birds for a reason, I just may finish off the kill in a lucky manner. Fact of the matter is, stop bringing PvP rage to the forums, that is not what it is here for. Cinco did a great job balancing the talon proc considering before yes with no cooldown it was very op, but it is fine now and very killable if you know how, takes learning. :)
That was stated because the rhino that was on your team was across the map but on my screen he was right next to me, I don’t use it as an excuse, it’s a common problem on STS side that hasn’t really been brought up, it’s not only rhino it’s also fox it’s a problem, the dashing classes tend to teleport here and there for whatever reason. You made this post purely out of spite, trash talking everyone that disagrees with you. Beating talon anything is very easy with the right amount of kiting and knowing when to nuke, save your rage for the game. In FFA Paladins are easily killable considering I am the most experienced with that class in PvP at this time, I know how it goes. Also, talon rhino takes forever to kill anything, enchants play a role and also in FFA we have birds for a reason, I just may finish off the kill in a lucky manner. Fact of the matter is, stop bringing PvP rage to the forums, that is not what it is here for. Cinco did a great job balancing the talon proc considering before yes with no cooldown it was very op, but it is fine now. :)
My purpose is to make the pvp balance and playable for every class not to sit on a broken op class op gun and hunt to get into LB, as that's what u stated in L100 pvp with gun rhino.
Describes everything? need to say anything else?
As far as the rhino glitches, nope he's experienced at rhino and he got 7 kill in a 3-3, also he was the one who kept tanking, so he wasn't running and still it shows that how quickly u complain against an other rhino, funny at it's finest.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 09:59 AM
My purpose is to make the pvp balance and playable for every class not to sit on a broken op class op gun and hunt to get into LB, as that's what u stated in L100 pvp with gun rhino.
Describes everything? need to say anything else?
As far as the rhino glitches, nope he's experienced at rhino and he got 7 kill in a 3-3, also he was the one who kept tanking, so he wasn't running and still it shows that how quickly u complain against an other rhino, funny at it's finest.
You just told on yourself, talking about last cap with what I did does nothing for this matter. Everyone used Pure Stat weapons last cap, so I needed one myself to make it even. Like I said, Waug, don’t come complaining on forums just because of your PvP grudges. And also about the teleporting rhino issue, it can happen at any time, using the “Charge!” skill for rhinos and the “Rabid Bite” and “Vixen Kick” for foxes is what makes this teleporting glitch happen, you can ask anyone it happens at random points, not complaining, it was in a match that did not matter just a random FFA. :)
You just told on yourself, talking about last cap with what I did does nothing for this matter. Everyone used Pure Stat weapons last cap, so I needed one myself to make it even. Like I said, Waug, don’t come complaining on forums just because of your PvP grudges. And also about the teleporting rhino issue, it can happen at any time, using the “Charge!” skill for rhinos and the “Rabid Bite” and “Vixen Kick” for foxes is what makes this teleporting glitch happen, you can ask anyone it happens at random points, not complaining, it was in a match that did not matter just a random FFA. :)
Everything has already described, it's gonna get repetitive now, as far as the grudges, it's not true, I judge by pure comment basis not on the basis that who said that, I've criticized the person I like, I've support right things even if it's coming from someone whom I may not like personally. The question is that are you generous enough to agree with every single person says rhino being broken? guess not.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 10:12 AM
Everything has already described, it's gonna get repetitive now, as far as the grudges, it's not true, I judge by pure comment basis not on the basis that who said that, I've criticized the person I like, I've support right things even if it's coming from someone whom I may not like personally. The question is that are you generous enough to agree with every single person says rhino being broken? guess not.
If I took rhino in honor arena anything would 10-0 me without any issue once so ever. If I took rhino to any twink level at this current standpoint I would lose to anything. Stop pointing fingers over PvP rage and see the bigger picture here, rhino is good now after being bad from release-85 cap. Therefore, rhino isn’t a problem. Now it is just a useable class like all the others, your goal along with some other aggravated players is to break the class and make it not useable once so ever, just because you have hate towards me, stop being so toxic on the forum and take a second to think about it. I won’t be arguing any further here, I know what I am talking about and am done with the toxic threads on anything PvP based.
If I took rhino in honor arena anything would 10-0 me without any issue once so ever, therefore, rhino isn’t a problem.
This is not honor frnd, lots of things are involved in it, why are u even bringing honor here?
Jensmage
07-17-2018, 12:18 PM
I’m not going to read the previous comments because it will alter my opinion and no time . :p
The players that are extremely active in PVP @ endgame is Waug and I. This is what I have noticed. Some classes benifit way more than others with the dex procs. When you have two different classes with dex set vs a traditional team dex bird and int mage or another traditional class team, the dex group has an advantage because of the talon proc benifits.
When you have a dex mage talon and rhino talon, it requires the classical team to put in more effort to win the campaign. Rhino talon can chase/tank,heal and tank and mage can tank/heal,revive.
Should the set be class base to have an immediate results? Yes. We should try out the class base to see the result. No harm in trying and the revert is easily done.
MageFFA
07-17-2018, 12:50 PM
This is not honor frnd, lots of things are involved in it, why are u even bringing honor here?
I don't get why you're now just saying this, I was already pushing for Nerf on Dex Set but nobody wanted to listen. "No it was rhinos that is Op not Dex" was the comment I received EACH time. Even when I debunked their arguments they still didn't care. Now you're pushing for the Nerd of Dex set without giving a single care about the fact that rhinos are now the most useless and non killing class in twink.
I can max all damage attacks and use long sword with 60 damage amulet and I still won't get the kill. Next time play the class before you go on Forum asking for the Nerf of it.
Dex is OP PERIOD.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 02:14 PM
I don't get why you're now just saying this, I was already pushing for Nerf on Dex Set but nobody wanted to listen. "No it was rhinos that is Op not Dex" was the comment I received EACH time. Even when I debunked their arguments they still didn't care. Now you're pushing for the Nerd of Dex set without giving a single care about the fact that rhinos are now the most useless and non killing class in twink.
I can max all damage attacks and use long sword with 60 damage amulet and I still won't get the kill. Next time play the class before you go on Forum asking for the Nerf of it.
Dex is OP PERIOD.
It is specifically rhinos being OP with the dagger/bow set. I dont get why people say the rhino itself is OP. Cinco only needs to revert rhino back to pre nerf when he buffed fox. Keep the buff on fox, give rhino is damage combo back and make sets class based.
Jensmage
07-17-2018, 02:18 PM
It is specifically rhinos being OP with the dagger/bow set. I dont get why people say the rhino itself is OP. Cinco only needs to revert rhino back to pre nerf when he buffed fox. Keep the buff on fox, give rhino is damage combo back and make sets class based.
That I am for....
Draebatad
07-17-2018, 02:19 PM
Class restricted gear has pros and cons. The pros are the freedom of choice. Personally, I'm for no class restrictions.
Jensmage
07-17-2018, 02:30 PM
Class restricted gear has pros and cons. The pros are the freedom of choice. Personally, I'm for no class restrictions.
We all have freedom of choice on the set to use. Just have to choose the class that fits the set.
No class restriction might require the game to update pvp @ endgame.
Absolize
07-17-2018, 02:34 PM
Class restricted gear has pros and cons. The pros are the freedom of choice. Personally, I'm for no class restrictions.
Same on my end, I prefer the freedom and plus the tourney going on right now doesn’t allow rhino to use its class specific set. Would be unfair.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 03:33 PM
Class restricted gear has pros and cons. The pros are the freedom of choice. Personally, I'm for no class restrictions.
Yes, freedom if choice come in handy in pve if a bear/rhino wants to play damage. Though currently, the only pve people use dex for is for the pve events.
Though pvp side of it. Its rhino thats ruining pvp when played with dagger. Its not fun, nor does it require skill to use.
Draebatad
07-17-2018, 03:39 PM
Nothing is perfect. Ever. Try to make the best of what it is, is my advice.
Jensmage
07-17-2018, 04:22 PM
It’s a game that requires players to be happy. They should update the pvp and try to make it perfect.
Jensmage
07-17-2018, 04:38 PM
I believe that players that rarely PvP or ever pvp these days shouldn’t provide a feedback to dex talon at all. I might be wrong because people have the freedom to say anything they believe in.
Draebatad
07-17-2018, 05:02 PM
I believe that players that rarely PvP or ever pvp these days shouldn’t provide a feedback to dex talon at all. I might be wrong because people have the freedom to say anything they believe in.
If it's constructive feedback, it's welcome here.
SillyJuan
07-17-2018, 05:41 PM
105 sets should be class bound tbh mages with mana Shield and talon proc is crazy
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I think this would be a great idea.
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Draebatad
07-17-2018, 05:57 PM
If the 105 elite sets end up being class-restricted, it should *only* be in PvP and not PvE or towns. Example: Mage with a 105 dex talon set enters a PvP zone, the gear is automatically unequipped -OR- the ability to join/host a PvP zone is not there until the proper gear for said class is equipped. Towns and PvE zones should not be penalized with the inability to choose their set of choice, just for the few who do end game PvP. And as we've mentioned before, there is currently a 105 CTF 5v5 tourney going on, and out of respect for it, ideally, any such changes will need to wait for it to finish. Once again, I am against class restrictions on end game gear in any zone. But if it were to eventually happen, I believe the above suggestion might work for the majority. Balance is a tricky challenge. What pleases one group, displeases another group, and vice versa.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 06:33 PM
If the 105 elite sets end up being class-restricted, it should *only* be in PvP and not PvE or towns. Example: Mage with a 105 dex talon set enters a PvP zone, the gear is automatically unequipped -OR- the ability to join/host a PvP zone is not there until the proper gear for said class is equipped. Towns and PvE zones should not be penalized with the inability to choose their set of choice, just for the few who do end game PvP. And as we've mentioned before, there is currently a 105 CTF 5v5 tourney going on, and out of respect for it, ideally, any such changes will need to wait for it to finish. Once again, I am against class restrictions on end game gear in any zone. But if it were to eventually happen, I believe the above suggestion might work for the majority. Balance is a tricky challenge. What pleases one group, displeases another group, and vice versa.
That is an option as seeing that each individual class has to be fixed. Though ive though of another way of doing it.
Most people who play dex other then bird/mage play dagger/bow. Maybe restrict certain weapons. Heres my thoughts
Each example is for what classes the weapon is restricted to.
Talon restriced to- all classes but mage
Bow restricted to- bird, fox and bear
Dagger restricted to- fox and bird
This keeps everyone eligable to still use dex set for pve events. Most use the talon set for the pve events on both rhino and bear.
I see this as an easier way to compromise between people who like the freedom of choosing to use different gear in pve while balancing it for pvp.
Class-bound sets is incredibly restrictive and is more or less creative when thinking about what classes to restrict it to.
Some people prefer different weapons and items in both PVP and PVE; especially when it comes to endgame. Simple modifications are welcome, however making something entirely class-bound whenever the 'freedom' already exists is a not-so-appropriate fix in any case to finding a constructive solution.
This keeps everyone eligable to still use dex set for pve events.
Post is very confusing but I can guess you want to restrict dexterity from mages and rhinos for PVP. Doesn’t seem like a constructive solution because all classes should at least be able to wear bows (good for PVE and PVP) - other classes would be able to counter it with any other weapon easily; other small modifications could then be suggested if it doesn't work for any reason.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 09:03 PM
Class-bound sets is incredibly restrictive and is more or less creative when thinking about what classes to restrict it to.
Some people prefer different weapons and items in both PVP and PVE; especially when it comes to endgame. Simple modifications are welcome, however making something entirely class-bound whenever the 'freedom' already exists is a not-so-appropriate fix in any case to finding a constructive solution.
Post is very confusing but I can guess you want to restrict dexterity from mages and rhinos for PVP. Doesn’t seem like a constructive solution because all classes should at least be able to wear bows (good for PVE and PVP) - other classes would be able to counter it with any other weapon easily; other small modifications could then be suggested if it doesn't work for any reason.
The only class that would need bow in pve is bear. Though pvp, bow shouldnt be allowed on mage or on rhino. Maybe put it in for bear, but on mage and rhinos its pretty broken due to the fast healing abilities.
XghostzX
07-17-2018, 09:27 PM
I know many will disagree with me, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really don't think the talon set is all that OP as everyone makes it out to be.
Is there a noticeable decline in overall strategy from these procs? Yes, definitely. But who cares? As an INT mage, I really have yet to feel overwhelmed by these sets. I think choosing the sets that do require a bit more strategy are all the more worthwhile.
I think the talon proc is great for two scenarios:
1) If a team lacks a bear/str rhino, you can always rely on a talon set to do the tanking. This is particularly nice because we all know there is an astounding array of birds and mages, while there aren't all that many bears.
2) I feel that inexperienced can reap many benefits from these sets. It allows players to explore the diversity and dynamics of PvP while giving them ample time to sharpen their skills. When they feel ready to move away from the protective barrier of the proc, then they have the option to do so.
Draebatad
07-17-2018, 09:48 PM
I know many will disagree with me, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really don't think the talon set is all that OP as everyone makes it out to be.
I agree with you.
Yo I'm not gonna read the thread cuz its 2 long but i dont have any problem whatsoever fighting against talon set at endgame. With bear my axe destroys talon users once i pull them into my proc they dont hit anything
With mage in team play i feel much more useful than when i used talon set. Lots skill dmg, lots healing for all team and the dmg bonus from pool and health+mana bonus. talon tickles me in these fights haha. just kite and use your pool well and have chemistry with your team and you take them out fine bro. i would take itaste or oneshot as int mage any day over talon mage lol
and when i play bird i don't even feel talon set is that great I would rather play bow. yes I will take out talon set when i need it but it's not that good. it tanks yes but lacks dmg and you can keep birds or any class with talon set debuffed during their proc period until cooldown and then they are useless
as ghost said i think talon set is good for pvp overall and not op at all. many ways to counter it and i would rather have a str bear or int mage on my team any day over a talon bear or talon mage haha
also dagger rhino aint even a problem in team play for me and others in pocket community we have learned to play around it as a team. In solo fight yeah maybe dagger rhino is best but certainly not team play it dies easy if you play smart bro. if rhino uses talon then it lacks dps and has a five second cooldown heal so you need to play smart and realize this then youll win pushing back and target weak links
hook is a top rhino endgame right now hands down and knows this is true. yes it has strengths but plenty of weaknesses 2 like every set type
best regards
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 10:12 PM
I know many will disagree with me, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really don't think the talon set is all that OP as everyone makes it out to be.
Is there a noticeable decline in overall strategy from these procs? Yes, definitely. But who cares? As an INT mage, I really have yet to feel overwhelmed by these sets. I think choosing the sets that do require a bit more strategy are all the more worthwhile.
I think the talon proc is great for two scenarios:
1) If a team lacks a bear/str rhino, you can always rely on a talon set to do the tanking. This is particularly nice because we all know there is an astounding array of birds and mages, while there aren't all that many bears.
2) I feel that inexperienced can reap many benefits from these sets. It allows players to explore the diversity and dynamics of PvP while giving them ample time to sharpen their skills. When they feel ready to move away from the protective barrier of the proc, then they have the option to do so.
The only person that has said the talon set is OP is waug. Ive said that talon mages however dont take skill as it increases the crit/hit severely. Adding that they dont have to conpensate for healing abilities in 1v1, they can out their heal at 1 and still heal to full in a matter of seconds. When in talon proc, they can heal all the damage they take in 1v1 fights and just plain out nuke another other class besides talon players.
and when i play bird i don't even feel talon set is that great I would rather play bow. yes I will take out talon set when i need it but it's not that good. it tanks yes but lacks dmg and you can keep birds or any class with talon set debuffed during their proc period until cooldown and then they are useless
This para is gonna to justify everything alone -
Talon set is never great, it's lame but it's great to exploit. Changing it's proc is necessary because of that. As said many times now, not class bound but talon is intended for birds, it's not meant to tank the way it can tank, it is MOST tanky in pvp while proc is on. Whereas it doesn't serve it's purpose of high damage dealer as bird, rather opposite. Other hand although bow is better than other 2h weapons but still NOT scaled with other 1h weapon sets, it's proc is definitely good.
See, actually you supported my original post it tank unnecessarily and it "lacks dmg" that's what it been said - change the talon proc from 1k armor 10k hp to some armor like 200 and some dmg 200. That's what original post ALL ABOUT.
Mine AGK
07-17-2018, 10:53 PM
This para is gonna to justify everything alone -
Talon set is never great, it's lame but it's great to exploit. Changing it's proc is necessary because of that. As said many times now, not class bound but talon is intended for birds, it's not meant to tank the way it can tank, it is MOST tanky in pvp while proc is on. Whereas it doesn't serve it's purpose of high damage dealer as bird, rather opposite. Other hand although bow is better than other 2h weapons but still NOT scaled with other 1h weapon sets, it's proc is definitely good.
See, actually you supported my original post it tank unnecessarily and it "lacks dmg" that's what it been said - change the talon proc from 1k armor 10k hp to some armor like 200 and some dmg 200. That's what original post ALL ABOUT.
You seen to forget that cinco based procs around team play and not 1v1. Though the main fights that people have in pvp are 1v1, this wasnt the way he built pvp foe this cap.
Talon proc doesnt need to be changed. Ive seen 2 birds play around their proc just fine and know how to play around it. Include the enchants, 1 full combo from decent enchants and it does 3/4 damage to a mage. Its good against birds and dex rhinos if it gets its proc at the right time. I find the proc really usefull and if the talon maybe was buffed with 25-30 damage, it may end up becoming the best set in game.
Everything based on teamplay, rest repetitive.
Rushlikeagod
07-17-2018, 11:32 PM
Be careful what you wish for, without that proc pvp will be a bad place for you and Jen
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Be careful what you wish for, without that proc pvp will be a bad place for you ........
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This is the BEST reply by far in this whole thread :3
Shows how dedicated I'm towards a fair environment rather than protecting something broken/op etc. Bragging? definitely i'd b proud to brag on this :p
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana::banana::banana::banana:
But as for "bad place" is concerned, I love "bad place" :yum:
Congeniality
07-18-2018, 06:51 AM
The only person that has said the talon set is OP is waug. Ive said that talon mages however dont take skill as it increases the crit/hit severely. Adding that they dont have to conpensate for healing abilities in 1v1, they can out their heal at 1 and still heal to full in a matter of seconds. When in talon proc, they can heal all the damage they take in 1v1 fights and just plain out nuke another other class besides talon players.
You seen to forget that cinco based procs around team play and not 1v1. Though the main fights that people have in pvp are 1v1, this wasnt the way he built pvp foe this cap.
Talon proc doesnt need to be changed. Ive seen 2 birds play around their proc just fine and know how to play around it. Include the enchants, 1 full combo from decent enchants and it does 3/4 damage to a mage. Its good against birds and dex rhinos if it gets its proc at the right time. I find the proc really usefull and if the talon maybe was buffed with 25-30 damage, it may end up becoming the best set in game.
This is the BEST reply by far in this whole thread :3
Shows how dedicated I'm towards a fair environment rather than protecting something broken/op etc. Bragging? definitely i'd b proud to brag on this :p
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana::banana::banana::banana:
But as for "bad place" is concerned, I love "bad place" :yum:
Read the entirety of this post, you will not regret it.
I too find talon proc to be overpowered because of the simple fact that there is no outplay besides waiting for its cooldown to expire. I don't know anyone who would say, "WOW! That's fun and interesting gameplay!", reason being, that it isn't. As a fox, it literally feels like, " Oh he has proc up, time to wait 15 seconds until all my buffs are gone then try to kill him while I have no buffs I guess... Or I can cheese and save my buffs for later and be a stinker."
To me, that isn't fun, that isn't gameplay that makes me want to play the game.
At the end of the day, I want the game to have fun, interesting gameplay. Even in 76 cap, when bears were overpowered to all hell, you could still play around it and maybe kite them out. And that was fullfilling! You felt like, "Wow, I just kited that guy really well," that's interesting gameplay :)!!! Now it's like, "Okay he has proc time to stall the fight until it goes dowwnnnnnnnnnnnn and NUKE THE SITTING DUCK!" That isn't interesting gameplay.
In a teamfighting scenario, it is the same idea, but a different outcome. In teamfighting, talon proc now feels like, "Ok, their bird has talon proc on, we can either 1) dogpile him and waste literally 5-7 seconds wailing on him, or 2) focus the rest of his team and try to kill that because he is just too tanky now." Again, that is just anti-fun gameplay imo.
If the talon proc felt more like, "Oh he has a small buff on his armor, so now he has a chance to better dive our backline, but he is still killable so I will stay back with my mages to keep them safe," that would be cool!!! But obviously, the proc's buff numbers would have to be tweaked, as right now they are way too tanky and are no way vulnerable to dieing.
Thanks,
Walie
Fwend
07-18-2018, 07:12 AM
I do hope something can be adjusted by sts with this proc, however its not the only proc that needs rework.
One thing that does concern me is how these changes will affect pve.
I personally feel these defensive procs are much needed on 1 handed weapons for survivability in the new campaign. The mobs hit so hard and can kill you with in a few hits.
And if these 105 elite sets become classed based, it will be very dissapointing, I love using a ranged weapon to farm with on all classes.
If restricted to class based sets, the bear and rhino can only use str weapons. Which are close range and more movement is required as well as time.
Read the entirety of this post, you will not regret it.
I too find talon proc to be overpowered because of the simple fact that there is no outplay besides waiting for its cooldown to expire. I don't know anyone who would say, "WOW! That's fun and interesting gameplay!", reason being, that it isn't. As a fox, it literally feels like, " Oh he has proc up, time to wait 15 seconds until all my buffs are gone then try to kill him while I have no buffs I guess... Or I can cheese and save my buffs for later and be a stinker."
To me, that isn't fun, that isn't gameplay that makes me want to play the game.
At the end of the day, I want the game to have fun, interesting gameplay. Even in 76 cap, when bears were overpowered to all hell, you could still play around it and maybe kite them out. And that was fullfilling! You felt like, "Wow, I just kited that guy really well," that's interesting gameplay :)!!! Now it's like, "Okay he has proc time to stall the fight until it goes dowwnnnnnnnnnnnn and NUKE THE SITTING DUCK!" That isn't interesting gameplay.
In a teamfighting scenario, it is the same idea, but a different outcome. In teamfighting, talon proc now feels like, "Ok, their bird has talon proc on, we can either 1) dogpile him and waste literally 5-7 seconds wailing on him, or 2) focus the rest of his team and try to kill that because he is just too tanky now." Again, that is just anti-fun gameplay imo.
If the talon proc felt more like, "Oh he has a small buff on his armor, so now he has a chance to better dive our backline, but he is still killable so I will stay back with my mages to keep them safe," that would be cool!!! But obviously, the proc's buff numbers would have to be tweaked, as right now they are way too tanky and are no way vulnerable to dieing.
Thanks,
Walie
Yap exactly, talon fight is lame, only option is to fight others while u got the proc while opponent doesnt, and 8 sec is not the ending of proc, it can pop up at any time. Among all the proc fights talon is 100% proc luck based. The reason i don't even play bird for such lame fights and ffa isn't fun at all ,the way some trying to project I'm sure they limited to specific idle conditions not ground level pvp.
PL pvp isn't a tourney match play that everyone gonna gonna follow rules and have one talon in a team, exploitation everywhere, everyone wants to win that bring every kinda lame things including multiple talon even the mine agk complains "double talon" in game but here in forums he has different intentions and motivations.
But anyway this continuous debating is not to convince cinco, seems like he's busy with something else or something else is in his mind eg tourney, possible new cap etc, otherwise I'm sure cinco would react way back.
Mine AGK
07-18-2018, 11:34 AM
Read the entirety of this post, you will not regret it.
I too find talon proc to be overpowered because of the simple fact that there is no outplay besides waiting for its cooldown to expire. I don't know anyone who would say, "WOW! That's fun and interesting gameplay!", reason being, that it isn't. As a fox, it literally feels like, " Oh he has proc up, time to wait 15 seconds until all my buffs are gone then try to kill him while I have no buffs I guess... Or I can cheese and save my buffs for later and be a stinker."
To me, that isn't fun, that isn't gameplay that makes me want to play the game.
At the end of the day, I want the game to have fun, interesting gameplay. Even in 76 cap, when bears were overpowered to all hell, you could still play around it and maybe kite them out. And that was fullfilling! You felt like, "Wow, I just kited that guy really well," that's interesting gameplay :)!!! Now it's like, "Okay he has proc time to stall the fight until it goes dowwnnnnnnnnnnnn and NUKE THE SITTING DUCK!" That isn't interesting gameplay.
In a teamfighting scenario, it is the same idea, but a different outcome. In teamfighting, talon proc now feels like, "Ok, their bird has talon proc on, we can either 1) dogpile him and waste literally 5-7 seconds wailing on him, or 2) focus the rest of his team and try to kill that because he is just too tanky now." Again, that is just anti-fun gameplay imo.
If the talon proc felt more like, "Oh he has a small buff on his armor, so now he has a chance to better dive our backline, but he is still killable so I will stay back with my mages to keep them safe," that would be cool!!! But obviously, the proc's buff numbers would have to be tweaked, as right now they are way too tanky and are no way vulnerable to dieing.
Thanks,
Walie
Its op because it procs and you decide the rush in to kill? Play around/against it and learn to change play style. I certainly changed my play style.for this cap and im loving it. People are so used to 1 or 2 different play styles and now that procs are more prevalent, people want to complain on how the talon proc is op? The only class that its OP on is mage because of the ridiculous crit/hit it obtains with the talon set along with heals it can negate any damage while the talon proc is up without having to compensate heal when using dex.
The proc itself isnt op in the slightest. In team play it comes in handy for ctf and arena if you dont have a bear.
As far as talking about team play, its not anti-fun. Teamplay has always been about picking your target and choosing (as a team) what to take out first. Most of the time people take mages out first so no one can get revived. If you see a talon proc active (which idk why people dont pay attention in any pvp situation) learn to figure out what a decision would be. This goes for both friends and randoms in teamplay.
Mine AGK
07-18-2018, 11:39 AM
Yap exactly, talon fight is lame, only option is to fight others while u got the proc while opponent doesnt, and 8 sec is not the ending of proc, it can pop up at any time. Among all the proc fights talon is 100% proc luck based. The reason i don't even play bird for such lame fights and ffa isn't fun at all ,the way some trying to project I'm sure they limited to specific idle conditions not ground level pvp.
PL pvp isn't a tourney match play that everyone gonna gonna follow rules and have one talon in a team, exploitation everywhere, everyone wants to win that bring every kinda lame things including multiple talon even the mine agk complains "double talon" in game but here in forums he has different intentions and motivations.
But anyway this continuous debating is not to convince cinco, seems like he's busy with something else or something else is in his mind eg tourney, possible new cap etc, otherwise I'm sure cinco would react way back.
I called double talon and yet last night you and virgin used triple talon vs 2 int mages and 1 talon rhino. You lost 9-2 games. So explain how the talon proc is op? It may be annoying in team play when a full teams of talons face off but ive already said limit use of the talon to every class but mages. Meaning the talon wouldnt be aloud use on the mage but could be used on every other class.
Draebatad
07-18-2018, 12:37 PM
It seems more people are ok with the talon proc than those few who are looking for a change. As I've said before, you can't please everyone - ever. And what pleases one group, displeases another group. The talon was already modified by a request from the majority. Now a minority is fighting for a change. The talon is fine as is.
Congeniality
07-18-2018, 02:19 PM
Its op because it procs and you decide the rush in to kill? Play around/against it and learn to change play style. I certainly changed my play style.for this cap and im loving it. People are so used to 1 or 2 different play styles and now that procs are more prevalent, people want to complain on how the talon proc is op? The only class that its OP on is mage because of the ridiculous crit/hit it obtains with the talon set along with heals it can negate any damage while the talon proc is up without having to compensate heal when using dex.
The proc itself isnt op in the slightest. In team play it comes in handy for ctf and arena if you dont have a bear.
As far as talking about team play, its not anti-fun. Teamplay has always been about picking your target and choosing (as a team) what to take out first. Most of the time people take mages out first so no one can get revived. If you see a talon proc active (which idk why people dont pay attention in any pvp situation) learn to figure out what a decision would be. This goes for both friends and randoms in teamplay.
I called double talon and yet last night you and virgin used triple talon vs 2 int mages and 1 talon rhino. You lost 9-2 games. So explain how the talon proc is op? It may be annoying in team play when a full teams of talons face off but ive already said limit use of the talon to every class but mages. Meaning the talon wouldnt be aloud use on the mage but could be used on every other class.
It seems more people are ok with the talon proc than those few who are looking for a change. As I've said before, you can't please everyone - ever. And what pleases one group, displeases another group. The talon was already modified by a request from the majority. Now a minority is fighting for a change. The talon is fine as is.
Easy way to see if a set is overpowered, look at how many classes can use it and be good. In the current state, dex talon set is good on: Bird, Ranger, Paladin, Bear, Enchantress................... it's good on everything. I think that speaks for itself.
Mine AGK
07-18-2018, 02:35 PM
Easy way to see if a set is overpowered, look at how many classes can use it and be good. In the current state, dex talon set is good on: Bird, Ranger, Paladin, Bear, Enchantress................... it's good on everything. I think that speaks for itself.
Its good on everything but not Op. Bird can outfight a bear/rhino/fox/birds with talon set but the only class that is OP with talon is mage because of the crit/hit associated with using the talon set. Massive damage output without having to compensate for healing when using dex due to the new healing system
Jensmage
07-18-2018, 03:19 PM
Be careful what you wish for, without that proc pvp will be a bad place for you and Jen
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
LOl Im actually playing int mage now thanks to wand 145dmg. Lag is really bad at work.
Jensmage
07-18-2018, 03:34 PM
Its good on everything but not Op. Bird can outfight a bear/rhino/fox/birds with talon set but the only class that is OP with talon is mage because of the crit/hit associated with using the talon set. Massive damage output without having to compensate for healing when using dex due to the new healing system
Dex mage talon is actually ez to beat in a team or solo. I think int mage causes more damage than dex mage.
Mine AGK
07-18-2018, 04:31 PM
Dex mage talon is actually ez to beat in a team or solo. I think int mage causes more damage than dex mage.
It causes more damage but doesnt compare the nuking capabilities of a dex mage.
Hjable
07-18-2018, 04:52 PM
I still think they should focus on team fights and character . But yeah if someone is tank they should be able to take major damage/ stun etc. maybe reduce damage. But if you make a tank super Tank what happens when he use talon or a range set. Then you have a op guy.
I would like to see if a warrior is using str set at level 105 they get extra armor boost or if a range was using range set they get something maybe cool down on ability or something or if fox have dagger set major damage and speed boost since there is a lot of stun and root abilities but still easily killed if he rush in alone and rhino with str 2 hand weapon some kinda or damage boost or something. But do not want to see items like pure stat we’re that weapon can’t be use on other class
If they just keep messing with the procs or weapon there not going to be much progress cause if they nerf talon then another weapon going to become op we seen this already.
Maybe playing with class stats with certain armor sets equip might work if possible. But I could be way wrong just a idea
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It seems more people are ok with the talon proc than those few who are looking for a change. As I've said before, you can't please everyone - ever. And what pleases one group, displeases another group. The talon was already modified by a request from the majority. Now a minority is fighting for a change. The talon is fine as is.
Lol without doing any kinda pvp what so ever and tryna play majority card here on forums FOR pvp won't work, only thing for competitive field need is balance and fair play, keep your majority card for pve events, that's where it works. Arena already started to get inactive due to all these luck and unbalanced field.
Its good on everything but not Op. Bird can outfight a bear/rhino/fox/birds with talon set but the only class that is OP with talon is mage because of the crit/hit associated with using the talon set. Massive damage output without having to compensate for healing when using dex due to the new healing system
Again crit hit lol, please learn what a crit and hit does and the cap of those things, we are in an age where these things doens't matter regarding the matter your bringing in, to some extent some proc it matters but that's different scenario. It's even worthless to debate with someone who already DENIED pl basics (oldschool pvp) to be lucky crit/hit fight, if PL's 90% cap other than current one isn't fine for you then definitely we all know what you're talking about.
Draebatad
07-19-2018, 01:56 AM
Lol without doing any kinda pvp what so ever and tryna play majority card here on forums FOR pvp won't work, only thing for competitive field need is balance and fair play, keep your majority card for pve events, that's where it works. Arena already started to get inactive due to all these luck and unbalanced field.
The majority mentioned were those who spoke out here saying talon proc is fine. I agree with them. The minority is very slim, those who aim for a proc change/nerf are the few, not the many.
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 10:02 AM
The majority mentioned were those who spoke out here saying talon proc is fine. I agree with them. The minority is very slim, those who aim for a proc change/nerf are the few, not the many.
I think you should correct your statements about majority say talon proc is fine and the minority is very slim. You might want to go back and count the numbers of players that support updating talon and making set class restricted. Majority is Drae and Absolize...players that mostly play rhino. I guess the other players comments were filtered out just like what they do in the US with the FCC.
XghostzX
07-19-2018, 10:15 AM
The majority mentioned were those who spoke out here saying talon proc is fine. I agree with them. The minority is very slim, those who aim for a proc change/nerf are the few, not the many.
While I agree that talon proc isn't a problem, you need to stop acting like you know what the majority argue for. I recall that it was you who said a majority of players do not actually use the forums, hence the best we can do is voice our own opinions and not let the forums seem like a place of "majority rule."
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 11:30 AM
Players that are very good probably dont see talon as an issue.
I find it funny how most players are using dex at PVP now even though some on forum think Talon and bow is balanced with the other class set. In this campaign...you have 6 players with dex set and not a single int set or str set. Lets include Drae and Absolize with dex set. I am not sure if the game dev actually are aware of the PVP environment @ endgame. Maybe they are aware.
Why be food when you can be a hunter...
169601
169602
Ikr, since I started to play Dex mage, I said ima make every mage go Dex. My vision came true I made most go Dex :p
Although bow takes guts, hardly anyone else can use that as mage.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 11:40 AM
Lol without doing any kinda pvp what so ever and tryna play majority card here on forums FOR pvp won't work, only thing for competitive field need is balance and fair play, keep your majority card for pve events, that's where it works. Arena already started to get inactive due to all these luck and unbalanced field.
Again crit hit lol, please learn what a crit and hit does and the cap of those things, we are in an age where these things doens't matter regarding the matter your bringing in, to some extent some proc it matters but that's different scenario. It's even worthless to debate with someone who already DENIED pl basics (oldschool pvp) to be lucky crit/hit fight, if PL's 90% cap other than current one isn't fine for you then definitely we all know what you're talking about.
Ironic you say that lucky procs dictates fights but crits dont? Contradictory to say so it seems.
My premise on why i say crit/hit can determine fights is because it can. Instances for L105 having crit being a factor in fights. Regardless of a "crit cap" fights can be effected by anything over that. As a int mage has around ~120 with the wand set and ~140 for talon set. No i see there are close BUT take into account the crit buff mages get, they can output massive damage to players and doesnt have to comprimise its nuke, compromise its heal for using dex attributes. Crit/hit can define fights because debuffs dont do much at this stage of pvp. Reason being, lets take blind for instance. You can hit a bear with blind and the bear can still hit everything it wants to on you because it doesnt debuff hit% enough. Same with mages weakness skill. It doesnt debuff enough crit/damage to be a signifcant fight changer. Bears HS is basically only used as a stun for birds/mages at this point in pvp. With so high base crit/hit% on this gear everything but dodge debuffs are extremely effective.
Crit and hit still determine fights but not on a large scale as before. Nearly every single auto from any class is a crit. This is why the bow proc is pretty broken vs all classes. Its a debuff that destroys hit -100 and crit ~70 nearly cutting both of them in half. Once out of the bow proc, your crit comes back and can still nuke perfectly fine without having to worry about any debuff skills that are intended to debuff crit/hit. Though your premise is that crit has a cap? Then why doesnt blind work anymore? Why doesnt hs work anymore? Why doesnt weakness work anymore? They dont debuff enough to cause any significant change to the outcome of fights.
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 11:40 AM
Ikr, since I started to play Dex mage, I said ima make every mage go Dex. My vision came true I made most go Dex :p
I think you got that correct. lol
I joined another game and see more dex. Zombie and Chao use to be int mage and now they are dex. Rhino obviously are using dex :P
169604
Ironic you say that lucky procs dictates fights but crits dont? Contradictory to say so it seems.
My premise on why i say crit/hit can determine fights is because it can. Instances for L105 having crit being a factor in fights. Regardless of a "crit cap" fights can be effected by anything over that. As a int mage has around ~120 with the wand set and ~140. No i see there are close BUT take into account the crit buff mages get, they can output massive damage to players and doesnt have to comprimise its nuke, comorimse its heal for using dex attributes. Crit/hit can define fights because debuffs dont do much at this stage of pvp. Reason being, lets take blind for instance. You can hit a bear with blind and the bear can still hit everything it wants to on you because it doesnt debuff hit% enough. Same with mages weakness skill. It doesnt debuff enough crit/damage to be a signifcant fight changer. Bears HS is basically only used as a stun for birds/mages at this point in pvp. With so high base crit/hit% on this gear everything but dodge debuffs are extremely effective.
Crit and hit still determine fights but not on a large scale as before. Nearly every single auto from any class is a crit. This is why the bow proc is pretty broken vs all classes. Its a debuff that destroys hit -100 and crit ~70 nearly cutting both of them in half. Once out of the bow proc, you crit comes back and can still nuke perfectly fine withiut having to worry about any debuff skills that are intended to debuff crit/hit. Though your premise is that crit has a cap? Then why doesnt blind work anymore? Why doesnt hs work anymore? Why doesnt weakness work anymore? They dont debuff enough to cause any significant change to the outcome of fights.
Stop a sec my frnd let me clear ur misconception, I'm on phone so I'll type less -
Crit above 100 is obsolete, doesn't matter u have 100 or 200, it produces same result. Crit means ur chance of getting A crit or not, a yes or no value, 100 crit means always yes, 200 means also yes, it's a percentage, just like 200% marks doesn't makes sense. It's same, YOU CANT GET 200MARKS OUT OF 100.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 11:48 AM
Players that are very good probably dont see talon as an issue.
I find it funny how most players are using dex at PVP now even though some on forum think Talon and bow is balanced with the other class set. In this campaign...you have 6 players with dex set and not a single int set or str set. Lets include Drae and Absolize with dex set. I am not sure if the game dev actually are aware of the PVP environment @ endgame. Maybe they are aware.
Why be food when you can be a hunter...
169601
169602
But you are food, both you and waug. You played triple talon and lost 9-2 games. You played me and my friend yesterday with wand set and still lost 4-0 games. So your premise that dex is somehow preventing you from being food, is false.
Dex mage is pretty broken due to its high crit/hit capabilities and combine that with easy heal and a talon proc. Boom, recipie for another broken pvp class that uses gear that wasnt designed for that class.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 11:54 AM
Stop a sec my frnd let me clear ur misconception, I'm on phone so I'll type less -
Crit above 100 is obsolete, doesn't matter u have 100 or 200, it produces same result. Crit means ur chance of getting A crit or not, a yes or no value, 100 crit means always yes, 200 means also yes, it's a percentage, just like 200% marks doesn't makes sense. It's same, YOU CANT GET 200MARKS OUT OF 100.
My premise still remains. If youre saying that you cant have %200 crit or hit. Crit can still be used in fights even after the bow proc destroys it. Im still hitting at 60-70 crit and remain in a fight. As to the bow proc destroying crit/hit, why is it that i still end up with 60-70 crit after debuff? It should be 20-30 and shouldnt allow me to hit any crits at all for the majority of the time that the debuff lasts, which isnt the case regarding the bow proc.
Ofc I didn't stat "unless debuff"s, tbh ur contradicting everywhere , and I'm straight to my point, skill debuffs doesn't play a role in hit crit much current era, what does? Luck based proc, see? It's proc that luck based not directly ur stat, if u could do it through skill debuffs it would be skill based.
Don't make me post ss of ur looses b4 calling others fud lel.
Bye
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 12:24 PM
But you are food, both you and waug. You played triple talon and lost 9-2 games. You played me and my friend yesterday with wand set and still lost 4-0 games. So your premise that dex is somehow preventing you from being food, is false.
Dex mage is pretty broken due to its high crit/hit capabilities and combine that with easy heal and a talon proc. Boom, recipie for another broken pvp class that uses gear that wasnt designed for that class.
Its funny when players brag about the wins but not the loses. Ever heard about lag? Ping is really bad at work and I work at the hills area where the reception is bad. Verizon network covers a lot of area but the upload speed data is really bad here.
Let me know when you want to battle 2v2. I prefer when I am at the house where the network is best. We will use Rhino dex and mage dex. Slic can be rhino and Ill be dex mage. I wouldn't be surprised the result will be 10-1 or worse.
LOL you were food when we PVP 1v1. That 24/7 tree works for you.
Finally mine agk got it to the fact that talon broken, indirectly tho xD
Agreed indirectly *
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 01:11 PM
Finally mine agk got it to the fact that talon broken, indirectly tho xD
Agreed indirectly *
Since there isnt a fix, we might see new set items.
I guess we will have to enchant the new sets once they are released again. Nice to be the only player op enchanted at the beginning.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 01:18 PM
Ofc I didn't stat "unless debuff"s, tbh ur contradicting everywhere , and I'm straight to my point, skill debuffs doesn't play a role in hit crit much current era, what does? Luck based proc, see? It's proc that luck based not directly ur stat, if u could do it through skill debuffs it would be skill based.
Don't make me post ss of ur looses b4 calling others fud lel.
Bye
Depends on what procs you say dictate fights. As it stands, bow proc/dagger proc and even talon proc when played right can dictate fights. The mage proc and axe/sword procs dont dictate fights. Mage proc could possibly depending on how bad the other person is and if they are playing another set of gear (I.E. dex or str)
You can post ss all you want. Although you have very few compared to any guilds that have faced you. (I.E. your kdr on bird being negative what? 70k?)
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 01:24 PM
Finally mine agk got it to the fact that talon broken, indirectly tho xD
Agreed indirectly *
So me pointing out a specific example and ONLY SAYING MAGE IS OP WITH TALON, is agreeing that the talon proc is op? Nope, try again.
Talon proc isnt op on bear/bird/fox/rhino. The talon proc isnt op, its the proc COMBINED WITH MAGES FAST HEALING ABLITIES AND CRIT/HIT that is increased while using dex without having to compensate for the loss of healing such as you have had to in previous caps, is what makes talon mages op. NOT THE PROC ITSELF. While in the proc, a mage can easily heal any damage done to them and remain at full health while in their own proc.
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 01:25 PM
Lets keep this to Talon Dex subject with positive attitude. I dont want this thread to be locked.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 01:29 PM
Its funny when players brag about the wins but not the loses. Ever heard about lag? Ping is really bad at work and I work at the hills area where the reception is bad. Verizon network covers a lot of area but the upload speed data is really bad here.
Let me know when you want to battle 2v2. I prefer when I am at the house where the network is best. We will use Rhino dex and mage dex. Slic can be rhino and Ill be dex mage. I wouldn't be surprised the result will be 10-1 or worse.
LOL you were food when we PVP 1v1. That 24/7 tree works for you.
Lol? Yesterday you lost 4-0 and left blaming it on lag while playing a bow bird. Ive asked your guild and another guild for a 3v3/5v5 at any point in time and you say "youre too ez, its a waste of time" yet continue to lose 2v2 and 3v3. We can set it up tonight if you want. 3v3 or 2v2 i really dont care. Funny how you will only play with a dex rhino (probably playing dagger) and a dex mage. Though ill ltake that fight on.
Draebatad
07-19-2018, 01:35 PM
In a teamfighting scenario, it is the same idea, but a different outcome. In teamfighting, talon proc now feels like, "Ok, their bird has talon proc on, we can either 1) dogpile him and waste literally 5-7 seconds wailing on him, or 2) focus the rest of his team and try to kill that because he is just too tanky now." Again, that is just anti-fun gameplay imo.
It's actually quite fun and is different style of gameplay than before, one which most of us have gotten used to already and enjoy.
Draebatad
07-19-2018, 01:49 PM
I know many will disagree with me, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really don't think the talon set is all that OP as everyone makes it out to be.
While I agree that talon proc isn't a problem, you need to stop acting like you know what the majority argue for.
I see merely a few people complaining about the talon proc (over and over again).
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 01:50 PM
Lol? Yesterday you lost 4-0 and left blaming it on lag while playing a bow bird. Ive asked your guild and another guild for a 3v3/5v5 at any point in time and you say "youre too ez, its a waste of time" yet continue to lose 2v2 and 3v3. We can set it up tonight if you want. 3v3 or 2v2 i really dont care. Funny how you will only play with a dex rhino (probably playing dagger) and a dex mage. Though ill ltake that fight on.
Yup! You're correct. Everything u say is always true :P. Lets do a 2v2 later tonight. This will be fun. ehh I hate playing dex rhino. I play rhino sometimes because it depends on my partner. Im more of a mage person.
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 01:55 PM
I see merely a few people complaining about the talon proc (over and over again).
first stage is people complain about talon proc (some voices arent heard) and then they switch to talon dex. After they become dex mage/dex rhino, dex bird, they rarely complain. They adapt to the environment. Just like the image below. All dex players now.
169609.
Draebatad
07-19-2018, 01:58 PM
Since there isnt a fix, we might see new set items.
I guess we will have to enchant the new sets once they are released again. Nice to be the only player op enchanted at the beginning.
Consider the arena of honor, no enchantments, no procs.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 02:15 PM
first stage is people complain about talon proc (some voices arent heard) and then they switch to talon dex. After they become dex mage/dex rhino, dex bird, they rarely complain. They adapt to the environment. Just like the image below. All dex players now.
169609.
Lol remember point specifically out what they are. Talon/bow mages. Bow being broken on any class that uses it but with mages heals, its hard to keep them in the same spot to keep from kiting but good try.
Jensmage
07-19-2018, 05:01 PM
Lol remember point specifically out what they are. Talon/bow mages. Bow being broken on any class that uses it but with mages heals, its hard to keep them in the same spot to keep from kiting but good try.
We know Bow and talon is broken. That is why there is a thread.
Depends on what procs you say dictate fights. As it stands, bow proc/dagger proc and even talon proc when played right can dictate fights. The mage proc and axe/sword procs dont dictate fights. Mage proc could possibly depending on how bad the other person is and if they are playing another set of gear (I.E. dex or str)
You can post ss all you want. Although you have very few compared to any guilds that have faced you. (I.E. your kdr on bird being negative what? 70k?)
SS, you agreed nice, Yes LeL fact, I've very few ss fighting a whole guild alone, that makes sense to me.
As it's all repetitive now, I'll summarize your perspective and wont be back to answer REPETITIVE replies (bring something new & nutral rather than biased) -
- You've denied PL's basics, described all of PL's old cap pvp till L100 PvP as "lucky crit/dodge" based pvp rather than skill based including arena of honor and when I told that L100 pvp everyone had 100+ crit, means all crit, your excuse for that something different. How that sounds? a perfect example is here - https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?426124-The-reason-I-like-qty-weapon-I%92ll-explain when someone starts to enjoy pvp for gun and then when everyone start to use that, it wasn't a good experience for him.
Contradiction : Pl's pvp till 100 cap was luck based for you But highly effective procs ain't luck based even though they are random and luck based and fight result determining highly on the other hand Pl's old caps were the golden ages of Pl pvp, not gonna make few pages explaining that, every old pvp-ers somewhat understand that.
- Anything that you can't kill, requires no skill even bow birds becasue according to u, bow is one of the highly broken thing in pvp.
Contradiction : Neither you nor ANYONE ur team mate ever used bow. You say it highly op even though you fail with bow bird rarely you tried it even though you've played bird in past. Fact is - it's highly squishy with low skill damage but like other procs, it's proc is high as well, requires skill to use it, while staying safe even as bow mage. ALL you want to see is a talon bird in 1-1, who can tank for sure while proc is on but not enough damage whearas keeping him freez with 2 ice skills and kitting with mages superb heal along with wand proc to make you zero to full, wait for proc to be gone and then ez kill.
As the enormous time I witnessed you to complain over bow BIRDS and run to tree complain and leave, I bet you to use bow with any of ur class / bird / team and win some decent fight/ffa YOU CAN'T u can only complain rather than taking time to thinking the possible ways to counter it's squishy-ness. Bird's chance to kill an int mage is with bow, as explained, ALL YOU WANT is to be an unkillable class in pvp.
- Talon is not broken for you.
Contradiction : You kick rhinoes with talon/dagger/bow or with anything, you stated here talon mages is broken, I already explain NO INT MAGE find it hard to kill talon bird. What remain? fox rare, bear rare (so rare that hardly can be seen) rhino rare too but u kick it on see.
Mine AGK
07-19-2018, 11:47 PM
SS, you agreed nice, Yes LeL fact, I've very few ss fighting a whole guild alone, that makes sense to me.
As it's all repetitive now, I'll summarize your perspective and wont be back to answer REPETITIVE replies (bring something new & nutral rather than biased) -
- You've denied PL's basics, described all of PL's old cap pvp till L100 PvP as "lucky crit/dodge" based pvp rather than skill based including arena of honor and when I told that L100 pvp everyone had 100+ crit, means all crit, your excuse for that something different. How that sounds? a perfect example is here - https://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?426124-The-reason-I-like-qty-weapon-I%92ll-explain when someone starts to enjoy pvp for gun and then when everyone start to use that, it wasn't a good experience for him.
Contradiction : Pl's pvp till 100 cap was luck based for you But highly effective procs ain't luck based even though they are random and luck based and fight result determining highly on the other hand Pl's old caps were the golden ages of Pl pvp, not gonna make few pages explaining that, every old pvp-ers somewhat understand that.
- Anything that you can't kill, requires no skill even bow birds becasue according to u, bow is one of the highly broken thing in pvp.
Contradiction : Neither you nor ANYONE ur team mate ever used bow. You say it highly op even though you fail with bow bird rarely you tried it even though you've played bird in past. Fact is - it's highly squishy with low skill damage but like other procs, it's proc is high as well, requires skill to use it, while staying safe even as bow mage. ALL you want to see is a talon bird in 1-1, who can tank for sure while proc is on but not enough damage whearas keeping him freez with 2 ice skills and kitting with mages superb heal along with wand proc to make you zero to full, wait for proc to be gone and then ez kill.
As the enormous time I witnessed you to complain over bow BIRDS and run to tree complain and leave, I bet you to use bow with any of ur class / bird / team and win some decent fight/ffa YOU CAN'T u can only complain rather than taking time to thinking the possible ways to counter it's squishy-ness. Bird's chance to kill an int mage is with bow, as explained, ALL YOU WANT is to be an unkillable class in pvp.
- Talon is not broken for you.
Contradiction : You kick rhinoes with talon/dagger/bow or with anything, you stated here talon mages is broken, I already explain NO INT MAGE find it hard to kill talon bird. What remain? fox rare, bear rare (so rare that hardly can be seen) rhino rare too but u kick it on see.
I never said all levels. I specifically said 100 cap before pure stats and new armors were added. It was crit based and also whoever spammed skills first (I.E. drain/light/fire) for mage fights. Birds 3 shot mages and bears 4 shot mages.
Problem with you saying that procs determine fights compared to crit/hit dertmining fights. You can play around procs and get aggressive or conservative when you need to. There isnt "sometimes" crit or hit, its always there.
As far as bow is concerned, ive stated that bow is OP across the board, not just with 1 specific class.(though some classes can be more op with specific gear as we see with a dagger/bow rhino and bow mages) It has 13 range, proc debuffs hp/mana/hit/crit and even destroys any chance of kiting or even healing to avoid getting nuked because of no mana regen.
As far as kicking rhinos with talon? I havent kicked a single rhino that plays talon. I specifically kick nubs who play a class that is crazy broken with a dagger/bow. Dagger being no skill and bow being barely any skill but kiting until its proc activates. Talon rhinos require skill, talon bears require skill, talon birds require skill, talon foxes require skill. Talon mages dont require skill as their nuking capabilities have been improved due to not having to compensate heal or damage output from skills while using dex.
At the end of the day, this thread was to get the talon proc nerfed. Which the proc itself isnt OP. Several people have attested to that and still say it. You and several others play talon mage and still have struggles in teams and even in solos? Bow being amazingly broken in a 1v1 and talon giving tanking abilities with its nuking capabilities without having to compensate for healing abilities.
Congeniality
07-20-2018, 06:49 AM
As a small side note, I would say that bow is perceived as overpowered due to the relative weakness of Tyben Strength Set. If Tyben were better equipped to help a tank survive, I think the bow would feel much less overpowered.
Mine AGK, what class do you use and why do you consider the bow to be broken? It seems from your perspective that you are a bird. Your frustration seems also to be orientated versing a dexterity-attributed enchantress.
By experience...
Birds with a bow can simply use the 'root' spell to counter kite and eventually use their skills to quickly damage an enchantress with the same weapon where they would eventually win. I think the same would go for talon: bird uses a talon & mage can use a talon. It all ends up being based on both of their strategies. If a mage can kite and a bird is unskilled or cannot properly use the 'root' spell, then there is nothing broken.
It is not like a mage has more damaging skills or more dodge than a bird that would cause a mage to tank & win against a bird (only way it would be considered to be broken). Birds have buffs that gives then more dodge & damage (resulted by bird's large amount of skill points dedicated entirely to damaging another player) that would enable a bird to easily kill a mage (that would use kite in order to counter bird damage & dodge). Dex mages have less armor and are considerably vulnerable to other classes that use a bow. If root doesn't even work, you can rely also on the bow's proc in order to prevent kiting from an enchantress.
Mage heal is capped at 295 health points with cool down. Birds can heal a similar amount of up to 200 health points. All classes auto-heal 1,500 and rely on that. I don't think healing a plus of +95 health points can make a difference when bow autos 1,000 and inflicts damage pools.
This is not level 75 or 100 where mages are supposedly 3 or 4 shotted. If you would like PVP to be so easy for birds, then endgame is not the place where 105 has enchantments and more advanced variables that you should consider; you need to try to use strategies like all other birds that can easily win against a dexterity-attributed enchantress - such as I've described above.
In my view, there is nothing broken.
Jensmage
07-20-2018, 11:00 AM
Mine AGK, what class do you use and why do you consider the bow to be broken? It seems from your perspective that you are a bird. Your frustration seems also to be orientated versing a dexterity-attributed enchantress.
By experience...
Birds with a bow can simply use the 'root' spell to counter kite and eventually use their skills to quickly damage an enchantress with the same weapon where they would eventually win. I think the same would go for talon: bird uses a talon & mage can use a talon. It all ends up being based on both of their strategies. If a mage can kite and a bird is unskilled or cannot properly use the 'root' spell, then there is nothing broken.
It is not like a mage has more damaging skills or more dodge than a bird that would cause a mage to tank & win against a bird (only way it would be considered to be broken). Birds have buffs that gives then more dodge & damage (resulted by bird's large amount of skill points dedicated entirely to damaging another player) that would enable a bird to easily kill a mage (that would use kite in order to counter bird damage & dodge). Dex mages have less armor and are considerably vulnerable to other classes that use a bow. If root doesn't even work, you can rely also on the bow's proc in order to prevent kiting from an enchantress.
Mage heal is capped at 295 health points with cool down. Birds can heal a similar amount of up to 200 health points. All classes auto-heal 1,500 and rely on that. I don't think healing a plus of +95 health points can make a difference when bow autos 1,000 and inflicts damage pools.
This is not level 75 or 100 where mages are supposedly 3 or 4 shotted. If you would like PVP to be so easy for birds, then endgame is not the place where 105 has enchantments and more advanced variables that you should consider; you need to try to use strategies like all other birds that can easily win against a dexterity-attributed enchantress - such as I've described above.
In my view, there is nothing broken.
The fire pit contributes to the dmg and slows the mage. Have you ever been in a quicksand? Its like you are in a quicksand and the sand burns/dmg. lol
The fire pit contributes to the dmg and slows the mage. Have you ever been in a quicksand? Its like you are in a quicksand and the sand burns/dmg. lol
I think you are talking about dexterity enchantresses vs. intelligence enchantresses. The proc is meant to be there on purpose for balance purposes.
Consider this: Both mages are wearing sets. One is wearing a one-handed weapon (bow) only with enchanted damage that must in some way counter the balanced armor & damage capabilities of a intelligence enchantress. The only way is to kite and wait to use proc. No proc = no kite = intelligence enchantress has an 90% chance of winning compared to the stats of a dexterity enchantress.
One other thing: Dexterity enchantresses cannot use magic shield while intelligence enchantresses can whenever they have mana pool spawned and use it as leverage whenever they have low HP.
Jensmage
07-20-2018, 11:53 AM
I think you are talking about dexterity enchantresses vs. intelligence enchantresses. The proc is meant to be there on purpose for balance purposes.
Consider this: Both mages are wearing sets. One is wearing a one-handed weapon (bow) only with enchanted damage that must in some way counter the balanced armor & damage capabilities of a intelligence enchantress. The only way is to kite and wait to use proc. No proc = no kite = intelligence enchantress has an 90% chance of winning compared to the stats of a dexterity enchantress.
One other thing: Dexterity enchantresses cannot use magic shield while intelligence enchantresses can whenever they have mana pool spawned and use it as leverage whenever they have low HP.
I was referring to your statement below. Bird bow will not survive vs a mage without that fire pit. Mage tank and dmg too much. That is why the fire proc is there.
'"Birds with a bow can simply use the 'root' spell to counter kite and eventually use their skills to quickly damage an enchantress with the same weapon where they would eventually win. I think the same would go for talon: bird uses a talon & mage can use a talon. It all ends up being based on both of their strategies. If a mage can kite and a bird is unskilled or cannot properly use the 'root' spell, then there is nothing broken.""
og_zylum
07-25-2018, 11:22 AM
Instead of talking about different balance issues, time to talk about the MOST BROKEN thing to fix, it's such game breaking mostly in team play ffa/ctf I'm sure even current tourney members (oldschool fair players) wont disagree to get it fix as if the current tourney is a concern.
Yest 1k armor and 10k talon proc with ANY CLASS is the worst thing, pls change it to something like 200dmg and 200 armor, talon set need a dmg boost anyway and 200 armor is fine.
If we going further abit right now, then nerfing dagger proc would be second next best thing.
Yea they seriously need to nerf dex sets and buff str sets.
Jensmage
08-01-2018, 01:34 AM
I don’t think they need to modify anything with pvp except maxing enchant on my sets. :p Anyways, both won’t happen so don’t hold your breath.
According to u everything you can't beat requires no skill, if same class same setup no proc beats you then it's lucky crit even if everyone has 100+ crit -
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(3rd ss, here? :O strange)
You do pvp in a pretty narrow way, only reason u do some 5-5ctf nexus to do practice tourney, other than that you do all kick unfavour things or leave, the fact is you have no problem killing a talon bird in a 1-1 situation bcz as a whole it's underpowered and a mage can easily kite and stay full with superb heal and proc and kill easily a talon bird when proc is gone, it's easiest thing to do. U kick rhinoes on see, how would you even know that rhino with talon is even harder to kill. Same goes to a 2/3 vs 2/3 where talon proc is more unfriendly, you ddon't even do that, you would realise the consequences.
After getting killed by bow mage you tried bow mage and quickly back to int then you realized, bow mage is weak in general and tweaked your tactics as int vs bow mage, fact.
I'm not the only one, many did complained about talon proc. I won't oppose item being class bound but then it is ALSO NECESSAY to balance other classes, u can take away talon dagger bow etc from other classes but then you'll have to strengthen em to be viable with their own class specific gear and for the person who complains about lucky crit in 100+ all crit era, how can he/she justify the SUPERB luck factor of procs? answer this my frnd.
Nope i like having the most OP proc also helpful in PVE also i 10-6 you yesterday soo