Is this the end of scaled farming?

[Riccits]

Hello community and STS,

i dont know wich motivation was behind to make this change that the drop no longer adapts to the highest party member, but just adapts to everyones own level.

This is a very big change wich will make every scaled item kinda worthless. Why?
Well for example u want to get lvl 21 items, now u no longer need a full group of max 21, but u can have 1x65 (doing all work) and 4x21 (drop leecher) to get the drop. Same is in Swamps (30) or Sewers (51). With my 51 i can join every Sewer group of any levels, i will get my 51 drop. Theres no more needed to have organized groups of twinks.
What will happen now? I predict that CS will further be flowded of scaled items wich casually drops to new players wich just wanted to level up.
Those ppl which collected, farmed, bought at high prices those rare items will loose a lot worth bcz we will see a lot more around from now.
Even 51 farm gonna be worthless, every new player is be able to farm his equip hisself while leveling from 48-52.

I liked to make organzied partys to get scaled items, it was hard, it was a challenge, it was fun.
Sad that probably that is gone now.

Ur free to discuss here, plz dont flame etc..

[KingFu]

Agreed, I hate the new system. Not only does it drop the value of scaled items, and draws in leechers, it may also force you to receive a specific level of loot that you don't want. Poor choice of words, so I'll give an example. I'm level 63, leveling to 65/66. I have a character there already, and 65 items are worth more. So I'm farming, and I drop a staff. The staff turns out to be Lv 63 even though everyone else is 65/66. The 63 staff is almost useless compared to the 65 since the 65 is worth more and would be of more use.

[BodMaster]

Just pointing out this is the SL section, PM Sam to move :)

This update has not affected PL yet as far as im aware. Only SL atm.

[TANKKAAR]

Pl is effected.... :(

[BodMaster]

Pl is effected.... :(

Argghhh since when?? Didnt see it in the patch notes.. :(

[Riccits]

Just pointing out this is the SL section, PM Sam to move :)

This update has not affected PL yet as far as im aware. Only SL atm.

darn sorry! happens to me all the time...

Any mod plz move to PL, thx!

[Riccits]

Argghhh since when?? Didnt see it in the patch notes.. :(

since update of mount fang. u dont want to know how many things they change without any notes ;)

[Ellyidol]

I'm not quite sure on the reasoning behind this either. The people I see benefiting from this are very casual players that are very left behind versus the majority of the players.

By that, I mean a player that is still catching up to the end-game content. A level 51 player in a group full of 55/56. The past system would reward the 51 with a 55 piece, but would now give him a 51 piece - short term benefit, I guess. However, the way I see it, it also hurts the same players. Instead of getting a 55 drop which they can use at 55, they are stuck with a 51 piece that they will outgrow in a few levels.

I guess they removed the need to do organized scaled farming to cater more to the casual groups. Remember the threads complaining about being booted from a 51 game while being 52+?

PL/SL is running out of niches until someone finds a new thing.

[MightyMicah]

Honestly I'm fairly happy with the update itself. But not with the principle of the matter. It looks to me like recently sts has been trying to drop prices overall in the market as well as get rid of twinks. This update is 2 in one. Scaled items are now just as valuable as normal items. Twinks are now discouraged of twinking and will probably level...they attacked twinks in the past with gettin rid of xp lock.

[BodMaster]

since update of mount fang. u dont want to know how many things they change without any notes ;)

Lol yeah I have noticed a few, that may cause a storm.. or two :p

Here's the patch notes for SL,


Item loot is now rewarded based on the receiver's level, rather than the AI level, so that content which scales based on level (such as holiday content) does not prevent players from getting their level-appropriate loot when higher level players are also present.

When I had seen this was a little shocked, but I believed this would affect PL far more than SL and was hoping that it didnt move across. (How long have some of these PL twinks been going?!)

Used to farm 51 drops in sewers, but we made sure that we were all 51. Some even xp, locked their mains to get this. (When it was released) For them to be close to worthless and all that hard work put in for nothing (well not now anyway) is pretty bad move.

But as previously said and as Elly has pointed out this is more for the casual player, so they can pick up play get the gear they need from a few runs with high players and log off.

[Slant]

don like any change in the way things drop yeah

[kallima]

I was absolutely devastated by this change. I loved leveling while still having the opportunity to loot my drops vs. buying them once I reached level cap. It gave me something to look forward to while grinding away.

I like many others froze alt toons to scale farm while with set groups. It was fun and provided us with a break if a certain map got too monotonous. And I know Fang will get monotonous on my grind to 66. Aside from that enjoyment it also served as a means to earn extra income.

I don't know why devs changed it, as I only recently came back from a very long hiatus, I doubt they will change it back but can only hope they at least consider it because everyone has made some very valid points.

[CrimsonTider]

As someone who has recently gotten into twinking, I am displeased with this as well. I have spent plat on extra character slots and twinking gives me a break from the normal "grind" of end game. Too many aspects of SL are being adapted into PL when nothing was wrong in the first place. Why change aspects of a game which have worked for a year and a half now?

And I should point out that it's the twink farmers whom have stuck with this game and gotten it to the level of popularity it is today.

[Moogerfooger]

I have never really been into twinking or scaled farming, but all of you guys bring up some really good points....maybe they can re-visit this decision.

Unfortunately, I think some of this came from the drama from the Halloween event and the raging that went on about the twinks having problems with higher levels joining an unhostable game/event.

[Kahlua]

I have never really been into twinking or scaled farming, but all of you guys bring up some really good points....maybe they can re-visit this decision.

Unfortunately, I think some of this came from the drama from the Halloween event and the raging that went on about the twinks having problems with higher levels joining an unhostable game/event.

LOL I had so much fun ruining the twinks/scaled farmer Halloween events.
"Leave lvl 20s only."
"NO LOL"
"**********************************"
If they weren't so rude, I would have just left.

[Ruby!!!]

Sad sad sad :(

I loved having twinks for scaled farming - this should be over now. An organized L51 farming group now would be 4 L49s with AO2 gear running behind a L65 soloing maps - no need for fancy gear or smart builds anymore :(

But so true:

PL/SL is running out of niches until someone finds a new thing.

[BodMaster]

Too many aspects of SL are being adapted into PL when nothing was wrong in the first place. Why change aspects of a game which have worked for a year and a half now?

This was only put into place on 10th for SL too. Though im not in agreement with the whole aspect of this being introduced at all.

Not once have I seen a post in SL section, complaining that the items in SL should be changed to this. Also in SL you do not get different level Purple/Pink its all levelled on the main gear at that time, 1 level below Cap. Not say 27/29/30 in Slouch-O or 32/34/35 in SY. Its all been scaled to one level for all items.

Slouch-O - Purple Lvl 30, Pink Lvl 30

Shipyards - Purple Lvl 35, Pink Lvl 35

(Excluding rare (Green) drops)

So in all honesty there was no real reason for this to be added in SL, nevermind PL (Which it affects tremendously)

[Yvonnel]

All I can do is cry

:(

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

[wvhills]

I agree this sucks. I made an "open letter to the devs" thread last week asking them not to adapt this new system to PL. Drew, Gluttony, and myself were practically the only ones speaking out against it. If all you guys feel this way I wish you would have voiced your opinions then instead of waiting until it was implemented and too late.

Sam commented on it saying "thanks for the good input on both sides" which I translate into "we're going to do what we want anyway." I would have felt differently about the comment had he offered some type of rationale as to why this was going to be adopted besides destroying scale farming and pushing everyone towards the end game to buy elixirs.

This game is becoming more headaches than its worth to me. It's hard watching something you liked so much making so many changes for the worse. For me this is just the latest in a process that started when 4x combo elixirs were introduced. I feel like this marks the moment when STS's focus went from making a well balanced game that requires thought and skill to focusing on selling elixirs.

Like Crimson, I've recently created 4 twinks. I bought the character upgrade for 3 of these, extra inventory slots, and plat packs for 2. I'd like a plat refund for these now useless characters. Please credit it to my account. Although at this point I really don't care if I have any plat or not. Honestly, if it wasn't for the friends I made here in forums I would've quit this game when nuri's came out and mindless button mashing while on elixirs came into vogue.

Also, just for the record. I think not including something like this in the patch notes (something you know is going to create a stir) is cowardly.

[drewcapu]

Like Crimson, I've recently created 4 twinks.

I have 10 new twinks. hehe

It kinda irked me when I saw the change was made to PL and it wasn't in the patch notes. Not as big a deal as it could've been though. If PL got the change before SL, all h-e-double-hockey-sticks probably would've ensued. But I think I got most of it out of my system in rob's thread.

Right now, the change doesn't affect SL much. With all SL vanities and legendaries as secondary drops, it's all plain luck anyways. Where it'll affect player happiness most in SL is if/when they start having legendaries which can scale to lower levels.

This isn't the end of scaled farming in PL. In fact, it's probably the opposite. Scaled farming is now easier to do. Of course, that also means pricing for such items will adjust as well, but still based on supply/demand. For example, even though this makes L10 Pink Armors easier to farm, I don't think you're going to see a bunch of them in CS in the next few days (unless Hunzzz decides to put all of his up for sale. hehe).

At this point, we probably shouldn't even call it scaled farming anymore. It's basically just regular farming now. Since you don't need to have a full group of the right level anymore, you can just solo farm the join screen for instances where you can reach the boss for the kill. Yep, you'll see a lot of this happen in Winter Fest pugs, I bet. And you'll probably see it a lot for DF1, SSC, and Swamps.

Essentially, the supposed main reason for the fix ("Halloween/holiday" drops) will also be what shows the most abuse of the new system.

[JaytB]

Since most has been said already, I'll simply say I regret the choice that STS made. Understandable for new players? Maybe. But a lot of hardcore scaled farmers aren't happy with these changes, including me.

[Ghastly]

K after a very long absence I'm back guys! :D and I think that pocket legends is pocket legends and star legends is star legends and that both of the games main technical features shouldn't be merged. It wouldn't make sense unless robots come to pl and they change the name to star pocket legends..

[Gluttony]

I agree this sucks. I made an "open letter to the devs" thread last week asking them not to adapt this new system to PL. Drew, Gluttony, and myself were practically the only ones speaking out against it. If all you guys feel this way I wish you would have voiced your opinions then instead of waiting until it was implemented and too late.

It's such a shame that players were against us when we tried to voice our opinions about this before the implementation, if players had siad something when who knows what would have happened. Too bad it was just an op an two users raging out so numerous players missed the Rob, Drew and Glut band wagon. The aftermath it's getting quite a bit of press but that train has left the station. The devs have changed their minds on how things work before, now all we can do is hope that it was yet another mistake of merging SL with PL code. Where was all this love a week ago?


Thanks for the good thoughts on both sides of the fence.

I just revisited the thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?42237-Open-letter-to-the-devs) and realized that Sam thanked everyone for the thoughts on both sides, guess the side for won or maybe just the side that Gluttony joins is bound to lose. I'm going to stick to the thoughts that sure this will make gear easier to obtain and make the game overall more playable for new players, but earning gold is going to be tougher than ever and without a gold sink those with multiple gold capped toons will rule the marketplace.

[bronislav84]

Just an FYI, but in the old way, 51 AND 52 would get 51 items. And 48 to 50 would also get 51 drops. How do I know? Because I ran in organized 52 parties and we would kick out everybody 53+. We still got level 51 drops. I started doing that at 48 even.

Oh, and 53 items would drop as high as 54.

But really this affects PL negatively, since now people can't farm up their next level gear while leveling up if there's gear brackets. This will drive the prices of the higher end gear up, because only people of that level or level capped characters can get it. This is a horrible change for PL because the item level ranges are more broad.

[Elyseon]

Well that make my 51 fury/royal set lame :(

Scaled farming was one of the most enjoyable things for me in PL, hate to see it discarded.

I was wondering cuz Mt Fang dropped unusually, but now i guess its official :(

[Battlelock]

This is sickening. I've got 4 twinks that are useless now. My gf and I locked at 56 to farm the sets. Being short of strongmans mace and shield and obedience bow, we would have all said 56 sets. Now with this change just as well turn xp back on and max level. Thus being bored.
Thinking I'll be moving to World of Midgard when it's released. I'm set for beta testing it in January. Love PL but in my 6 months of playing it just keeps going down hill.
If I had seen the thread mentioned about this before it was implemented, I would've voiced my opinion. I am truly sad.

[Rare]

I think this will affect a lot of the play as well once the information trickles down.

What I mean is that players will most likely now grind to the low lvl cap (e.g. 55, 60, 65, etc.) before trying to get loot.

Of course, farmers and people with twinks may still try to farm the gear, but for the most part I think the most popular gear is the endgame version.

[Rare]

... or maybe just the side that Gluttony joins is bound to lose.

Maybe but your banner is still hilarious every time I see it.

[Abagatan]

Unfortunate. It will definitely change economics, and increase the difficulty of getting top level gear.
I think this is the end of group farming for lower level gear. To those I farmed 51 with over the past several months untilllast week, it was some of my favorite PL memories. Some good groups, and some great people!
To the devs, interesting choice, and hopefully good comes of this. Perhaps less booting in higher level maps? Hope so, although I suspect not. I would suggest adding set bonus to scaled gear to retain value, and encourage collecting.

[wvhills]

what it means is that low level twink farming is obsolete and top end gear will be harder to get. Right now the xp requirements are lowered but at the end of November they'll go back to normal. So after you mindless grind out 10k xp + per level to reach max what are you rewarded with? More mindless grinding to get the gear you want because the gear you gathered isn't 65 it's 61 and 63 and it sucks.

[Elyseon]

Sigh guess ill lvl all my characters to 65 now

[Actona679]

Riccits - I don't have anything more to add to this other than to agree with you. Everyone else has said it so well. It all makes me sad. Change is hard. The end of an era.:hopelessness:

[Battlelock]

I may be misreading this but from how I understand it to be is drops are based to your level now. In Mt. Fang level 58-61 receive level 61 gear, level 62 & 63 players receive level 63 items, level 64-66 receive level 65 items.
If your 65-66 you'll still receive 65 gear correct? So what I'm saying is endgame gear isn't necessarily gonna be the goal. It's still gonna be easily farmed. Its just the 61 gear isn't gonna be as hard or worth as much to farm.
Or am I missing something?

[Tetraeder]

Oups, I spend about 8 mil in Mt. Fang lvl 61 gear.
Do I have a problem now?

[drewcapu]

yes, because L61 gear is the "common" gear.

surely you must have bought multiples to have spent so much?

[wvhills]

I may be misreading this but from how I understand it to be is drops are based to your level now. In Mt. Fang level 58-61 receive level 61 gear, level 62 & 63 players receive level 63 items, level 64-66 receive level 65 items.
If your 65-66 you'll still receive 65 gear correct? So what I'm saying is endgame gear isn't necessarily gonna be the goal. It's still gonna be easily farmed. Its just the 61 gear isn't gonna be as hard or worth as much to farm.
Or am I missing something?

In the past the gear scaled to the highest level in the party so if you have 1 level 65 and the rest 60's then everyone received level 65 drops. So you had 5 levels to loot the gear you want. Now you don't start receiving level 65 gear until you are 64 which gives you one level to loot all the gear you need (if you want to equip the gear at 65). To me that says end game gear will be 5 times rarer than it was before. Most regular players aren't going to be able to afford end game sets anymore. You'll see people wearing mixed and matched level 61, 63 and 65 pinks but you won't see the sparkles.

[Tetraeder]

@drewcapu
lol, I talk about pink gear. You dont know that?

[drewcapu]

@drewcapu
lol, I talk about pink gear. You dont know that?

Yep. There's a such thing as common pink gear also.
Relatively speaking, of course.

Let's take Nuri for example.

Where before it was the L60 Glyphs that dropped the most due to the drop logic, the next generation of players will be dropping more of the L56 Glyphs.

Speculate all you want how that may affect CS.

[Battlelock]

I just see it as all gear dropping equally and therefore no real big $ in game for items. Brings a balance to drops and rates but ruined the rarity of twink farming.
brings to mind the need to plat/elixir to be at top for the best gear and prices.
Greed consumes all.

[kallima]

I wouldn't take a lack of response to your thread personally; I think those that are speaking out now would have done so before if the thread title conveyed the specific topic like Riccit's title vs. "an open letter." It's unfortunate that it did get overlooked because it seems the twink/scale farmers except for a few on your thread, dislike (to put it mildly) this new change.

I personally did NOT know what was going on until Fang, I got super excited when I got a wand for my mage, the whole group celebrated with me…only to be disappointed when I went to check stats it was a 61. (I know, a pink is a pink and I should still be excited) I felt like a bait and switch happened. I think I pm'd everyone I knew that had a twink, to confirm WTH happened and vented most of my shorthand profanity then, and am finally getting to do the same in a platform meant to be seen by devs.

My sympathies go out to you for trying to proactively prevent this cursed change. In the future, and I think we should all take note, specify the subject matter in thread title, urge in game friends to be VOCAL about their opinion, and hope the devs base their decision on the true consensus.

[wvhills]

I wouldn't take a lack of response to your thread personally; I think those that are speaking out now would have done so before if the thread title conveyed the specific topic like Riccit's title vs. "an open letter." It's unfortunate that it did get overlooked because it seems the twink/scale farmers except for a few on your thread, dislike (to put it mildly) this new change.

I personally did NOT know what was going on until Fang, I got super excited when I got a wand for my mage, the whole group celebrated with me…only to be disappointed when I went to check stats it was a 61. (I know, a pink is a pink and I should still be excited) I felt like a bait and switch happened. I think I pm'd everyone I knew that had a twink, to confirm WTH happened and vented most of my shorthand profanity then, and am finally getting to do the same in a platform meant to be seen by devs.

My sympathies go out to you for trying to proactively prevent this cursed change. In the future, and I think we should all take note, specify the subject matter in thread title, urge in game friends to be VOCAL about their opinion, and hope the devs base their decision on the true consensus.

I hadn't thought about the thread title causing it to be overlooked but you're right. I would say that I will take your advice in the future but I'm not planning on giving any more input. The devs say they listen but I'm convinced they're going to do whatever they want anyway. During nuri's we saw people spend large amounts of plat buying elixirs to get to end game. By the time they did either had looted the gear they needed or sold the gear they didn't need and had enough to buy end game sets. Once they reached that point they stopped buy elixirs. Now once they reach end game they won't have the drops they need and will be forced to continue grinding past max level to get the sets they want and they'll continue to buy elixirs to do the grinding. STS is going to do whatever sells elixirs regardless of what we have to say about it.

[Yvonnel]

During nuri's we saw people spend large amounts of plat buying elixirs to get to end game. By the time they did either had looted the gear they needed or sold the gear they didn't need and had enough to buy end game sets. Once they reached that point they stopped buy elixirs.

Ummmm....

Must have missed that. I know many of my 61 friends continued to purchase plat elixirs because of how easy it made farming.

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

[wvhills]

Ummmm....

Must have missed that. I know many of my 61 friends continued to purchase plat elixirs because of how easy it made farming.

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

That's just my own observations, yours may be different. I made it a habit to look though because I prefer to run in groups with as few elixir users as possible. It was my experience that groups with 0 or 1 users was easier to find as people reached level 60 or 61.

[Rare]

what it means is that low level twink farming is obsolete and top end gear will be harder to get. Right now the xp requirements are lowered but at the end of November they'll go back to normal. So after you mindless grind out 10k xp + per level to reach max what are you rewarded with? More mindless grinding to get the gear you want because the gear you gathered isn't 65 it's 61 and 63 and it sucks.

Actually, they scaled back the xp requirements too.

[wvhills]

Actually, they scaled back the xp requirements too.

Yes, they are right now. But as I said and you quoted the reduced xp will last until the end of November then will go back to normal. Here's the thread where Sam announced it:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?42509-Log-in-to-Pocket-Legends-for-Crazy-XP-Now-through-the-end-of-November!

[Pandamoni]

I think once we stop looking at this as OUR game and look at it as a money maker for the devs we will be able to better understand many of the decisions. Yes, many people spend plat gearing out twinks but I can guarantee you that with this change making the highest level drops (65 to date) worth the most gold you will see more people taking their chars to level cap usin plat elixirs. Plat elixirs=the real money makers.

[Elyseon]

Economy will be destroyed, PL why u gotta change this up, everyone was happy the way it was

The only zone this would be logical for is FH, noobs need that encouragement of new gear each lvl even if theres a 10 in the party

Its disappointing to see this happen further worsening the economy :(

[wvhills]

I think once we stop looking at this as OUR game and look at it as a money maker for the devs we will be able to better understand many of the decisions. Yes, many people spend plat gearing out twinks but I can guarantee you that with this change making the highest level drops (65 to date) worth the most gold you will see more people taking their chars to level cap usin plat elixirs. Plat elixirs=the real money makers.

That's right Pandie. Read post #41 in this thread. :)

[Swimmingstar]

I think once we stop looking at this as OUR game and look at it as a money maker for the devs we will be able to better understand many of the decisions. Yes, many people spend plat gearing out twinks but I can guarantee you that with this change making the highest level drops (65 to date) worth the most gold you will see more people taking their chars to level cap usin plat elixirs. Plat elixirs=the real money makers.

I like your idea. It is also fine to have it this way. I can get gear I need easier instead of getting level 65 stuff. This also encourages more people to level. Twinks also can be used to farm still and with the same gear. I don't see any problem.

[drewcapu]

Plat elixirs=the real money makers.

I haven't spent much on plat elixirs. But have spent a ton on those darn gambling packs!

[Pandamoni]

Lol oops! I wasn't trying to steal what u said I just hadn't read all the responses.

I think it's harder for those of us who remember when player input could bring change. Now it's probably only worth posting on forums if we want to give two thumbs up or talk about the fun weekend we had or possibly even trash talking other guilds...you know, the typical fodder found here nowadays.

[Snakespeare]

Please correct me if I am reading you wrong, but this sounds like the wealthy players are displeased about losing their grip on the game's economy. I have always been in favor of a more equitable drop system. I'd favor anything that makes the outlandish prices in CS drop. What do people need all that gold for anyway? It's not like we're keeping score... or are we?

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

But I might be reading this wrong. Most of you are my friends, and you mostly know my leanings, so you probably aren't surprised to read my opinion. Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

[Pandamoni]

I haven't spent much on plat elixirs. But have spent a ton on those darn gambling packs!

The problem here, Drew, is you play the game to play the game and for a love of mechanics, game play, etc. You enjoy all the facets of the game. Those gambling packs are fun because they are for your chars you have nurtured and come to almost care for in a sense (maybe I'm projecting a bit). You can play the game well. You don't need elixirs to play and actually like the challenge the game affords when you're not hopped up on 'roids. You are the exception, though, with potted players now being the norm.

[Pandamoni]

Please correct me if I am reading you wrong, but this sounds like the wealthy players are displeased about losing their grip on the game's economy. I have always been in favor of a more equitable drop system. I'd favor anything that makes the outlandish prices in CS drop. What do people need all that gold for anyway? It's not like we're keeping score... or are we?

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

But I might be reading this wrong. Most of you are my friends, and you mostly know my leanings, so you probably aren't surprised to read my opinion. Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

I am pretty poor and really don't merchant but there are times where I've farmed low level items w farming groups because it's fun and if I'm going to spend time farming I really enjoy the lower levels the most.

I am upset with this change because the prices on end game gear are already out of control and I just see this exacerbating the problem.

[Ellyidol]

Please correct me if I am reading you wrong, but this sounds like the wealthy players are displeased about losing their grip on the game's economy. I have always been in favor of a more equitable drop system. I'd favor anything that makes the outlandish prices in CS drop. What do people need all that gold for anyway? It's not like we're keeping score... or are we?

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

But I might be reading this wrong. Most of you are my friends, and you mostly know my leanings, so you probably aren't surprised to read my opinion. Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

While this is very true, I'm also getting the message that they're disappointed because scaled farming was something unique and required actual mechanics to do. Now, this change basically removed that mechanic. I don't consider the economy or such as a major factor in these changes, after all, like you said, it's just gold. But seems like they're running out of things to do other than the long tedious grind at 65-66. No more niches.

[wvhills]

Please correct me if I am reading you wrong, but this sounds like the wealthy players are displeased about losing their grip on the game's economy. I have always been in favor of a more equitable drop system. I'd favor anything that makes the outlandish prices in CS drop. What do people need all that gold for anyway? It's not like we're keeping score... or are we?

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

But I might be reading this wrong. Most of you are my friends, and you mostly know my leanings, so you probably aren't surprised to read my opinion. Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

You're misunderstanding. Read my post #36 in this thread and drews post #38 and you'll see how this is going to result in end game gear being even more expensive than it is now and more unattainable for the "non-elitist player". Btw, I'm displeased about this and have 400k gold on all my toons so I'm not wealthy or elitist. Of course, you just like to argue so if everyone was commenting on how much in favor of this they are then you would be the one complaining about it.

[drewcapu]

Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

I don't think you're necessarily misunderstanding.

We have yet to see the full effects of this change in PL.

In the other thread, Glut and I tried to brainstorm all the possible ramifications.

There's definitely an economic result, but ultimately, I don't think it's the wealthy that will complain. In fact, I think the wealthy will continue to be wealthier and pull further away from those who aren't wealthy. Part of the beauty of scaled pinks used to be that someone new to the game had a chance of looting something pretty darn valuable as they were leveling up. That won't be the case anymore. Basically, end game gear at level cap levels will be all that will be "worth a lot" since it'll be the more difficult gear to obtain.

I've stated I can live with this change even if I don't like it. I'm just preparing for using that mute button a lot more often now when people starting out are begging more because they can't make any money.

[Snakespeare]

@ robert You know me too well. LOL!

[Actona679]

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

As one who benefits from only occasional farming, I will still defend this pseudo-economy of PL. I LIKE the idea of special gear that is hard to obtain. It is rare and special and I like to wear it on at least one of my characters, if possible. I don't mind if the price is inflated. That makes it all the more rare and special for those who benefit from the drop, purchase, or sale.

If I can't afford the gear that I want then it's time to pull out my farming characters and get to work earning gold! I LIKE to have goals like this in PL and I suspect most others do as well. Maybe our goals are different but achieving success in the PL economy is a huge goal for many. There are so many aspects to this game, beside achieving level cap, that have made it a success: completing quests (too few of them, however), crafting gear, and earning gold to name a few. I know there are many economic minded people who LOVE to work the PL economy and kudos to them. It is fun for them and I wish them all the success because they put much time into their farming and selling. Buy low; sell high!

PL is my first MMO-RPG so I will be the first to admit to a lack of knowledge about these types of games, but isn't "twinking" or obtaining the best gear a large part of most of these types of games?? I hate to see this integral part of the gaming fun go by the wayside.

[StompArtist]

Good. The economy in PL has too much cash in already. Take it down.

Now all that is needed is a gold drain.

[Rare]

I guess I should have read the rest of your post :)

[drewcapu]

Good. The economy in PL has too much cash in already. Take it down.

Now all that is needed is a gold drain.

Unless listing fees are made higher for high priced items, there won't be an end to the gold madness.

[Snakespeare]

So, if the level cap items drop less frequently, the prices will go UP!?!?

Well, I won't like that!

[Buubuuftw]

*sighs* Im confused. Does this mean that scaled farming is useless? I just made some new twinks for scaled farming. So from what I've read so far the drops im getting are now going to be worth less? This seems discouraging. I made a Sand Cave twink and a DF and FH twink last week. Now I hear about this. Why did they bring this over to PL anyways. I see MAYBE 1 benefit but WAY more cons. Basically my question is this, is scaled farming dead? Should I delete my farming twinks or are they still useful?

[drewcapu]

Scaled farming isn't dead.

It's just that it's easier to do.

So the pricing for such scaled items will tend to go down as more of them become available for people to buy/trade in game.

[WhoIsThis]

Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

I don't think you're necessarily misunderstanding.

We have yet to see the full effects of this change in PL.

In the other thread, Glut and I tried to brainstorm all the possible ramifications.

There's definitely an economic result, but ultimately, I don't think it's the wealthy that will complain. In fact, I think the wealthy will continue to be wealthier and pull further away from those who aren't wealthy. Part of the beauty of scaled pinks used to be that someone new to the game had a chance of looting something pretty darn valuable as they were leveling up. That won't be the case anymore. Basically, end game gear at level cap levels will be all that will be "worth a lot" since it'll be the more difficult gear to obtain.

I've stated I can live with this change even if I don't like it. I'm just preparing for using that mute button a lot more often now when people starting out are begging more because they can't make any money.

This.

It is the biggest reason why this should be reversed. It will lead to a massive wealth transfer to the already wealthy.

[kallima]

Please correct me if I am reading you wrong, but this sounds like the wealthy players are displeased about losing their grip on the game's economy. I have always been in favor of a more equitable drop system. I'd favor anything that makes the outlandish prices in CS drop. What do people need all that gold for anyway? It's not like we're keeping score... or are we?

How does the elitist pseudo-economy we have in-game contribute to better game play? How does it spread the game? I think it doesn't. I think good gear should be attainable to all who make the effort. And I think the players who have been gouging the prices have nothing to complain about. They are rich enough already.

But I might be reading this wrong. Most of you are my friends, and you mostly know my leanings, so you probably aren't surprised to read my opinion. Tell me if I am misunderstanding. thanks

I agree that elitists (both merchs and hardcore players) exist but a vast majority of us, twink because we enjoy a variety of play. It's not that fun to run FH, DF, swamps etc with an end game toon and if we can make a little money in the progress - great, even more incentive. I only have 2million and that will be nowhere near enough to buy end game gear. When I farmed, most of the looted pinks would be stock-piled and given away, either to cheer up a friend who hadn't seen a pink drop in days, surprise a new player, or sell in c.s. I'm getting ready to do just that since my inventory is getting out of control, but I may be more hesitant in the future to be like that as I'll still want the end game gear, and those prices will be atrocious.

[Haowesie]

And I should point out that it's the twink farmers whom have stuck with this game and gotten it to the level of popularity it is today.

+1
I created my other toons, because I enjoyed the game so much, I wanted to do it all over again with the hopes of improving my game play along with better equipment -- things I didn't know when I first started. This would be a good example for "customers" coming back. IMHO, repeat customers provide substantial revenue to STS as these are the people who actually are willing to purchase platinum (either for twinks or grinding). I would think that new customers would play for months for free (like myself) until they hit that certain point when they can truly say "I'm hooked". I didn't even register my first character until several months...



Sad sad sad :(

I loved having twinks for scaled farming - this should be over now. An organized L51 farming group now would be 4 L49s with AO2 gear running behind a L65 soloing maps - no need for fancy gear or smart builds anymore :(

But so true:

Awww Ruby, and I thought you just wanted to match clothes... ;P

[Duped]

I also wish they would reverse this decision. Unfortunately in my reading, I also became more disappointed, I had thought the lowered xp requirements were related to the negative feedback from the "non-casual" feel of nuris. I was really excited about this, and was actually coming on here to thank the devs for lowering the requirements and listening.

I didn't realize it was a short term thing, ah well. I guess I'll live it up while I can.

[Fyrce]

I think in the brainstorming people have done, it seems this change will mostly increase the cost of "desirable" equipment, generally the endgame and end-campaign sets. I've dropped 11 pinks in Mt Fang and all of them are L61-L63.

With xp the way it is right now, it might not matter as much as people basically use what they drop and keep leveling. However, for certain equips that are sets or customized at certain levels only, since the majority of the players in that area cannot drop those items anymore (various levels), only max levels and farmers who go to lower level campaigns will drop those items.

However, there is no way max level players + farmers = almost all players in a campaign. If players did not care about looking a certain way (sparkles, flames), then maybe this is a good change for the normal player. But looking around, there seems to be tremendous value placed in "looking" elite. So for those equips, the scarcity should go up, resulting in higher prices which, since those items generally are already the higher priced items, means the rich get richer.

[Uepauke]

I agree that elitists (both merchs and hardcore players) exist but a vast majority of us, twink because we enjoy a variety of play. It's not that fun to run FH, DF, swamps etc with an end game toon and if we can make a little money in the progress - great, even more incentive. I only have 2million and that will be nowhere near enough to buy end game gear.

THIS. For me, it was the combination of the fun of doing a low level dungeon the way it should be and the suspense before the drop--main reason for my DF activity :). It was also building up a lovely kill death ratio, now nerfed as well. I think the closest analogy is fishing--it's not just netting that big fish, it's the combination of the actual activity, the environment, and then the chance of that big fish dropping. I wonder if it'll be just as thrilling when that fish isn't so prized.

I would have thought this kind of use of the game was good--people buy plat gear for their farming twinks, they buy elixirs so that their low level twinks can solo a hard dungeon, all sorts of plat generating activity. A good way of reusing old content, I thought, and also of encouraging a steady consumer base for in between new content. But I can see why STS has gone the route it has... and it isn't pretty.

[maneatingtree]

I hope theyre is no easy scaled farming for christmas campaign because then everyone would make games in which theyre is 1-3 lvl 10-20 and the some lvl 66 which would be horrible

[Uepauke]

I hope theyre is no easy scaled farming for christmas campaign because then everyone would make games in which theyre is 1-3 lvl 10-20 and the some lvl 66 which would be horrible

AARRRGGGGHHHH

I have no rational response to this ;_;

[小孩子]

-.-

[Fyrce]

The mobs do still scale to group levels -- so like your level 10 in a group with a level 14 in DF1 will be fighting harder mobs than if the level 10 was in a group of level 10s.

In the Xmas campaign, unless mob scaling is very different, there would still be some desire to run low levels with low levels, high levels w/ high levels. But yes, you can totally just low level leech a higher level's game.

[Fncrazy]

Change it back please. I got 10 toons and now 8 of them have list there job. The unemployment rate was high enough sts.

[csb]

I have done a lot of scaled farming, and have a lot of twinks. This change wipes out the extra effort and sacrifice that we use to make some money farming useful items. Now, any casual player can get the same items.

Also, the reduced xp requirement means players level faster. This means there is no reason to spend a lot of gold on a level 25 set, or a voodoo set. The levels will be passed quickly, so cheap pinks and purples will be good enough. In the past, we would spend a lot of time at each level, so we would generate gold, and we would buy nice items to help get through the grind.

I predict that the market will change significantly since expensive/nice items are no longer desirable. With free daily elixirs and quick leveling, the nice items are only useful for level-locked player and pvp players.

Why would anyone pay 150k for a shock lance? Players will just pass through 45-50 quick with whatever cheap weapon they can find. I see these elite items are already much cheaper due to low demand.

[MightyMicah]

Here's something I posted on another thread which I don't think should be taken too lightly:

"If you look very carefully you will notice that STS is trying to get rid of twinking. Don't believe me?

1. They started adding cap level bonuses. This will encourage people to level up and not twink. The bonuses are massive. Irresistable.

2. They ended pve twinking for kills. This made all those who were twinking for that reason have nothing left to do but to level up.

3. This next update. They are now removing the scale farmers. Scale farmers are now leveling up...or will be

What's next? Pvp twinking? I can't say for sure. But I can say this: I wouldn't be surprised. After all there are simple solutions to each and every problem presented, STS just doesn't seem to want twinks. I don't know why, but I've resolved to just trust the devs and go with it. Thank you for taking your time and reading this post."

~~~MightyMicah

[Imacoolbirdd]

So i made a 51 farmer for nothin...

[Fyrce]

I'm not sure I would change for now, but if this stays till after the holidays, an L55 farmer might be better. End game and end campaign. But then you don't really need the twink, unless you just want to be close to the level of the campaign.

[KingFu]

As someone who has recently gotten into twinking, I am displeased with this as well. I have spent plat on extra character slots and twinking gives me a break from the normal "grind" of end game. Too many aspects of SL are being adapted into PL when nothing was wrong in the first place. Why change aspects of a game which have worked for a year and a half now?

And I should point out that it's the twink farmers whom have stuck with this game and gotten it to the level of popularity it is today.

Agree entirely. I see it as devs are trying to kill twinking without making a ton of people POed, since once one controversial conversation about an update dies down, another patch strikes up another. I mean, they get rid of kills on twinks (not to beat a dead horse), give end game literally all the attention, and now scale farming has become a leech fest. I've spent far too much gold, plat, and time making twinks personally, and I know many others have as well, so I hate seeing stuff like this implemented. Like you said, it's been working for over a year and a half, so idk why they're changing it now:/

[csb]

This change actually mirrors current world politics. A few (farmers) are willing to work harder that everyone else to make a lot of money. The casual majority looks at that with envy, and wants all the same benefit, without the effort.

But, the farmers are a crafty lot. If there is any way to earn cash, they will figure it out. The casual players will say, "Why are there rich players? I thought that was fixed!". And, STS will have to nerf the game again.

[MightyMicah]

@csb I like it! But most won't lol never bring polotics into a game. Its a trap. Though I agree 100%

[oneslybird]

I truthfully haven't noticed that until now...but I like it XD

[csb]

Now that my main bird, bear, and mage are all 65, i have nothing to do. (i don't do the final grind level... it's beyond lame).

Normally, I would do the scaled farming while waiting for new levels. It adds variety, and keeps me interested between releases. Besides my 3 mains, I have 9 farmer alts with nothing to do. I wish they had some game content for people willing to work for gold. I guess it's just about leveling, and i'm done when I get to top-1.

Now i'm idle until the next PL release, looking for an alternate game (besides SL - i hit the level limit and never went back).

[Beanmachine]

I'm kinda upset my drops are lv61 and 63, I know the value is potentially higher for lv65 pinks because they are the best and can be crafted. I don't need no short term benefit! Glyph IS my short term benefit, its good enough to survive all the way to 65:/