Vanity or Elite level cap items and PvP balence

[protectorofnoobs]

Hello everybody
I just wanted to bring this matter to the attention of everybody whos into pvping.
So in endgame pvp, the vanity sets are pretty awesome, and now they offer insane stats.
Obviously, these people totally deserve these sets but i really dont think it has a place in pvp.
These sets have created a huge rift in pvp and i and several others (we dont have vanity sets) find it extremely hard to beat people who we could beat before these vanity sets became available.
I think it is very stupid because the people who often reach the extra level have their vanity sets and probably the best gear because of the time they spent in pve. This only places them far above where their supposed to be in pvp. And I thought pvp was supposed to be a fair experience. Me and several others now find it extremely hard to actually endgame pvp. Only people who spend a bunch of money for elixirs, or hardcore 24/7 addicts can ever reach the extra level. Moderate players, obviously, wont have these EXTREME advantages nor will they have the best gear.
It seems that Sts is ONLY supporting people who pay a lot of money and people who play a lot.
And obviously those that are opposed to this are the people who have the vanity sets in pvp.

Solutions:
1. Only allow these vanity sets to be active in pve (cuz the vanity sets benefit the whole team )
2. Give some exclusive awesome looking vanity items to those that reached the extra level.
3. Give non-vanity pink gear or sets

I really need YOUR opinions and also that of the Dev's. If you have anything helpful and constructive to say, please reply.

[brodiniozo]

Tbh, I think that ur just lazy..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[Cytokinesis]

Tbh, I think that ur just lazy..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
y would u think that?

[mejslll]

na lot lazy, at all, not every one can hit 56 or 61 or 66 the first day let alone in three months, or ever hit it with out using a hundred dollars on plat to get the elite lvls.

it is called elite for a reason - you need to be that extra crazyness to get it...

i as a lvl 61 top cap and a demonic warbird i was playing ctf - i wish i knew the players name - but it was like mike something, anyways he was wearing raid roach, he smoked me like 5x, he has sub par equip and killer skills, equip is def good but dont relly on it !!! get to be the best on your skills!!

another point - kaarcher, dolloway, slushie they all had the same equip i had and consistantly beat me...

kills come form skills

[Ellyidol]

kills come form skills

True story.

OP, although I can see your point, PL isn't really a PvP OR PvE game. It's really PvP AND PvE. That said, it's only fair to reward those who spend resources into reaching the elite cap.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the 3-piece vanity set bonus only very minimal compared to the 2-piece set? The set has a good bonus, but not enough to be the only deciding thing in a fight. Maybe you'll find a way to counter it soon.

[Walkhardd]

I can see where you would be frustrated..but I don't believe its unfair..a big part of the reason I spent the plat, and the time, was to get the bonus for pvp.

[roufus]

So what about new people who aren't able go get the lvl cap vanities now are they just gonna get owned whenever they try to pvp since there is no way they will be able to make a set I think there should be an option to stay at the same lvl and keep grinding it out with the big xp to hit cap then move on that way everyone gets a chance to get the vanities that have already passed

[Walkhardd]

So what about new people who aren't able go get the lvl cap vanities now are they just gonna get owned whenever they try to pvp since there is no way they will be able to make a set I think there should be an option to stay at the same lvl and keep grinding it out with the big xp to hit cap then move on that way everyone gets a chance to get the vanities that have already passed

I actually agree..its been brought up before, but unfortunately, probably not gunna happen :/

[Nickyeagle]

kills come form skills

Could have never said it better. I agree completly. I used to PVP with probabily the worst gear against Demonic Sets and I would 1/2 of the time win. Your opponet could have the best gear, but if you have the best skills, you will most likely win. :)

[Ellyidol]

So what about new people who aren't able go get the lvl cap vanities now are they just gonna get owned whenever they try to pvp since there is no way they will be able to make a set I think there should be an option to stay at the same lvl and keep grinding it out with the big xp to hit cap then move on that way everyone gets a chance to get the vanities that have already passed

Sorry, but you can't bring up the "oh but they joined first" argument here. Even if they did start playing first, they did go through the effort and time to reaching and obtaining that elite level. When the elite level was first introduced at 56, there was no such thing as an elite vanity helmet - it took the slot of our regular helmet.

STS has mentioned that there will be more vanity stuff in the future, which will complete the vanity set. Judging from the recent 3-piece vanity set bonus, they are doing their best to reward the old timers for the older vanity sets, but at the same time making it equally as potent for the new comers. The COP + SH set bonus = the SH + MF set bonus, if I'm not mistaken. The combination of all three only give a very minimal bonus.

[Elyseon]

If u look to the first 66s many of them are pvpers, also they also get 5 extra stat points and an extra skill, should those be taken away as well?

These ppl achieved this for that purpose of pvp, if u want it bad enough u can go for it too

[MightyMicah]

Ok, here's the way I see it. Kills come from skills yes, but there are still setbacks. Just like a low lvl archer vsing a bear. For instance I have a level 10 avian twink for pvp. My stats are excellant and I kill many dex bears. However...when a truly good dex bear comes along, he beats me everytime. Why? Because he has a huge advantage.

This is the same with top level pvp. Sure I with my level 56 warbird have killed demonic people. However most of the demonic ppl i killed were not good at pvp. When someone whos actually good gets a good set as well he's unstoppable. And all because he had money for elixars and I didn't. Is this fair? Absolutely. If I'm not willing to invest money in an otherwise free game then I shouldn't complain.

The only problem comes along with new players. Players who haven't even had a chance to spend money on elixars and hit top level. New players will be discouraged because they don't have the bonus that others do. So what's the solution?

1. Make a way to earn the hardcore xp even after level cap raise. You would have to do it at the proper level however. Meaning you couldn't level to 65 then decide to play sewers and get Cop. You would have to get Cop at correct level 55. Sheild at 60 and armor at 65.

2. Simply make an epic looking vanity that others will still be jealous of. It won't effect gameplay and it will look like the bomb! (Like the holiday stuff)

3. Remove hardcore altogether and add a brand new feature.

4. Im sure theres a solution out there. In fact I'm sure there's many. We just gotta take the time to find it. Because I doubt the way things are going atm is the way things should be

Thank you for taking time to read my opinions. I respectfully hope that you agree with my views that are presented above. Also I hope I don't get flamed and crap...lol

~~~MightyMicah

[mejslll]

Sorry, but you can't bring up the "oh but they joined first" argument here. Even if they did start playing first, they did go through the effort and time to reaching and obtaining that elite level. When the elite level was first introduced at 56, there was no such thing as an elite vanity helmet - it took the slot of our regular helmet.

STS has mentioned that there will be more vanity stuff in the future, which will complete the vanity set. Judging from the recent 3-piece vanity set bonus, they are doing their best to reward the old timers for the older vanity sets, but at the same time making it equally as potent for the new comers. The COP + SH set bonus = the SH + MF set bonus, if I'm not mistaken. The combination of all three only give a very minimal bonus.

i agree with e, i have been playing less then a year i have a bird, mage and my beloved bear... all lvl 65, bear is half way to 66 - two of the three have helm and all three have shield, all will have lvl 66 armor.

so, i have not been there from the begining - for what it is worth

[mejslll]

protectorofnoob... if you are iprotectnoobs ur a very good pvp'r keep up the good work!! and stop killing me

[Conradin]

I dont believe something you can get i 24 hours or less if you spend $ should give you a distinct advantage. After all this game was designed as a PVE game. If I had my way the bonuses would be strictly pvp. Since the bonuses are relitively small, im fine with it but also note this. Some of the best pvpers are the ones who alsp go and get te bonuses. If the best have the bonus- it is almost impossible to beat them.

[AbsolutePally]

Revelation and Unity, the top two end game pvp guilds are leading in 66s despite the fact we are small compared to other guilds. We do it because we want it. It is simple really. Personally I don't like pve so I want to get it out of the way asap!!! And the bonus is a great incentive to make it there.
It makes a difference, it gives a slight edge. But if you can't handle a few stat points it is not everyone elses problem. We got there because we wanted to, because it was made available to us, and we decided to invest and support the game we like.
This thread is a witch hunt IMO.
I do however feel bad for the people who started say today or recently and do believe they should have an option to accept the 3 elite level quests if they choose. But if you were amd are here amd miss it that is your own fault. You have known and seen,what the vanity bonus is and how to get it, and it is true not everyone can or will. It is hardcore and elite for a reason. nd most people persuing the bonuses are already that. Hardcore elite players, mainly pvp people. Evident in the leaderboards.

[WhoIsThis]

This issue has been repeated many times. For now, for 1v1, I recommend asking everyone that has a vanity to remove their sets. If not, decline to fight them.

[Fao]

I agree 100%!!!

[Imperial-legend]

i took a long break and came back to game a week or so before the 61 lvl cap raise, the vanity bonus was the ONLY incentive that has been supporting me to go through the frigging long lvling journey from 56 to 61, and knowing that it will be unavailable in a week was the ONLY reason i spent 500 plat buying elixir.. and now u r saying u gonna change it to sth else or make it available again? no way i gonna let that happen~

[protectorofnoobs]

Thx for the replies everybody!!!
In reply to the people who say kills come from skills i completely agree buuutttt . . . .
Think about this: Say you and your opponent are equally skilled and they have vanity but u dont
WHOS GONNA WIN?
Obviously itll be the person with vanity
And another important fact:
The vanity bonus isnt exactly a small teeeny tinyy boost to stats
From what i hear, the new 3vanity set gives 15 armor 5 dodge 55hp
thats not exactly small . . . (add that vanity to top gear and BOOMMMMMM)

what i really wanted to point out was that: PVP should be fair and these vanity sets arent making it any fairer

and also keep in mind im not trying to rid all bonuses for elite players i have many suggestions up there :)

edit: allsoooo im not trying to get rid of the extra stat and skillpoints @elyseon
those bonuses are minimal to what the vanity set is

anotthherrrr edit: if youre still confused i still want some incentives for people who reached the extra level!!!!!! (just something that wont make pvp unfair) :)

[Elitephonix]

100 agree

[Protank]

I would spend 2000plat and kill mobs for weeks to have a chance at the vanity set I missed out on. I spend a lot of time in pvp and the vanity set makes it totally unfair!

True story :D

[LADYHADASSA]

:witless: ok but no one herenmentions the extreme fast exp offered all month i took my lvl 40 mage to lvl 61 in exactley 2 hrs and 15 min a majority of it was all by myself in crush the keeper.. At the moment getting to lvl 65 is a breeze.. I chose to lvl in two days due to life and playing my other toons. Soooooo for the month of novemeber slow exp should not be a complaint.

I remeber before elixers for plat we had gold elixers for 5 min time periods, speed armour and attack the grind to lvl 50 was a long one, but accomplished by all.. So what i am saying is use what is given you this month! If you are a pvp player then do the grind and get your bonus equipment. Before December comes.

[DJMdivine]

If everyone and thier mother could get it then what is the point of obtaining it to begin with? Im a pve player and I love grinding for these elite vanities. I dont think it would be fair at all to give everyone another chance when they had three months to begin with. Why not start getting 3-5k a day? Not to high, but not to low then you know for sure you'll obtain it by next patch.

[AbsolutePally]

As the wise and powerful Koreancake would say:

"I pay because it cost to be boss"

Nuff said.

[Elitephonix]

As the wise and powerful Koreancake would say:

"I pay because it cost to be boss"

Nuff said.
DId koreancake quit bc i dont see him anymore and he owes me like 500 kills in pvp
That rusher

[protectorofnoobs]

ehhhemmm ppl please read the original post
im not asking for opportunities to get these vanities again
i simply want other rewards than the current vanitites to be given out
PLSSSSS read before you reply :)
and please dont say money is the simple solution to this (ive spent a lot on this game)

[Mikeylito]

i am a holder of all vanity sets and still i have to agree entirely that it is unfair. Pvp vanities (including vet helm) offer 15armor, 5 damage, great amount of hp, 5dodge. it is completely unfair for a new pvper even with superb skill. If i were to face another user with equal skill of mine, with me having vanity sets and him/her not, i would win a far greater percentage of the time because of my superior statistics. its a math rule. just look at casinos and how they make their fortunes. the player in the casinos is always at a disadvantage at the game. same concept with vanity sets. Even more so, the advantage a vanity set brings forth far outweighs the advantage a casino has on the player.

Talking to twinks, i ask them why they never level up and pvp for lev61-66 the most common answer is " vanity sets give a unfair advantage.

Futhermore, i am afraid if enough new players are discouraged because of this unfair advantage, pvp will die out. no new players will join, and in all due time, old players will quit, leaving pvp extinct.

Be it as it may, i did work hard for the vanity sets so i deserve them however, i believe in equal chance and oppurtunity. i believe devs are working hard to make pvp as fun and enjoyable as possible. hopefully everything will work out for the new players and the old!

[Jewelsofjane]

I agree with this. Although its awesome to have those extra stats in pvp, which extra anything can mean the difference between staying alive or dying, but.... From someone who started playing in October, I never had the opportunity to get the 56 helm, I so would have if I could.

I love pvp, I worked my butt off to get 61 before update for bonus and then 66. But should I be penalized because I didn't download the app when balefort cap level was out? Idk, maybe some super hard quest like the tomes quest could be put in place?in 6 months from now, people starting out wont even have a chance with all the bonus stats we have.

[Nickyeagle]

Thx for the replies everybody!!!
In reply to the people who say kills come from skills i completely agree buuutttt . . . .
Think about this: Say you and your opponent are equally skilled and they have vanity but u dont
WHOS GONNA WIN?
Obviously itll be the person with vanity

I agree... Most cases. Lets put it this way. Lets say Me (An archer) battled a bear and you both had the same stats but the bear was using a STR set and vanity and I was using a DEX set no vanity. This might be considered cheating, but couldn't I attack the bear at a distance short enough for me to shoot it and a long enough distance that the bear could not hit me? Then I would win. :) (YAY! GO ME!) I don't know, it was just a thought that came into my head.

[MightyMicah]

Lol Nicky, from the bear's point of view, he's thinking "All I have to do i stomp then it stuns him. Once I advance to him I root him then kill him with my slashes. AND since I have vanity bonus and he doesnt, I'll own him!".....

[Whirlzap]

Hello everybody
I just wanted to bring this matter to the attention of everybody whos into pvping.
So in endgame pvp, the vanity sets are pretty awesome, and now they offer insane stats.
Obviously, these people totally deserve these sets but i really dont think it has a place in pvp.
These sets have created a huge rift in pvp and i and several others (we dont have vanity sets) find it extremely hard to beat people who we could beat before these vanity sets became available.
I think it is very stupid because the people who often reach the extra level have their vanity sets and probably the best gear because of the time they spent in pve. This only places them far above where their supposed to be in pvp. And I thought pvp was supposed to be a fair experience. Me and several others now find it extremely hard to actually endgame pvp. Only people who spend a bunch of money for elixirs, or hardcore 24/7 addicts can ever reach the extra level. Moderate players, obviously, wont have these EXTREME advantages nor will they have the best gear.
It seems that Sts is ONLY supporting people who pay a lot of money and people who play a lot.
And obviously those that are opposed to this are the people who have the vanity sets in pvp.

Solutions:
1. Only allow these vanity sets to be active in pve (cuz the vanity sets benefit the whole team )
2. Give some exclusive awesome looking vanity items to those that reached the extra level.
3. Give non-vanity pink gear or sets

I really need YOUR opinions and also that of the Dev's. If you have anything helpful and constructive to say, please reply.

Yes, after some thinking, I agree with this.

Of course, people had to grind and be hardcore to get the item, but they did this through leveling in PvE.
And plus, they get better stats in PvE, isn't that enough?
Same thing with Founder's Helm, should only be allowed in PvE.
This is PvP, and this is a free to play game, so it should be fair for those who joined later, at least PvP-wise.
"Sure, OH, I managed to be hardcore and all, an' i got this epic set of mine, so I deserve crushing people in PvP!" could be what a person would say, but aren't you already allowed to use it in PvE?
It's way more fair if the vanity set was only allowed in PvE, as well as face boosts, rings, and everything else.
The sets would remain the same, because EVERYONE could get one.
Otherwise, PvP isn't player versus Player; it's plat-spending person beats regular person.

[Whirlzap]

Lol Nicky, from the bear's point of view, he's thinking "All I have to do i stomp then it stuns him. Once I advance to him I root him then kill him with my slashes. AND since I have vanity bonus and he doesnt, I'll own him!".....
And the bird's chuckling, "Foolish little bear. FEAR MY REPULSE RAWW-WHAT??!!!"
<Bird get's beckoned and stomped before finishing talking>

[Nickyeagle]

Lol Nicky, from the bear's point of view, he's thinking "All I have to do i stomp then it stuns him. Once I advance to him I root him then kill him with my slashes. AND since I have vanity bonus and he doesnt, I'll own him!".....

Oh. That is a good point. I am not familiar with mage's and bear's skills. i am only familiar with archer's skills.

[Elitephonix]

i am a holder of all vanity sets and still i have to agree entirely that it is unfair. Pvp vanities (including vet helm) offer 15armor, 5 damage, great amount of hp, 5dodge. it is completely unfair for a new pvper even with superb skill. If i were to face another user with equal skill of mine, with me having vanity sets and him/her not, i would win a far greater percentage of the time because of my superior statistics. its a math rule. just look at casinos and how they make their fortunes. the player in the casinos is always at a disadvantage at the game. same concept with vanity sets. Even more so, the advantage a vanity set brings forth far outweighs the advantage a casino has on the player.

Talking to twinks, i ask them why they never level up and pvp for lev61-66 the most common answer is " vanity sets give a unfair advantage.

Futhermore, i am afraid if enough new players are discouraged because of this unfair advantage, pvp will die out. no new players will join, and in all due time, old players will quit, leaving pvp extinct.

Be it as it may, i did work hard for the vanity sets so i deserve them however, i believe in equal chance and oppurtunity. i believe devs are working hard to make pvp as fun and enjoyable as possible. hopefully everything will work out for the new players and the old!
With this maybe i can kill a person in only 2 skills but with there sets on i have to use my whole combo and id prob die by then.
I AGREE WITH U

[protectorofnoobs]

thx everybody for your opinions!!
if you also have any solutions in mind, please speak your mind :)

[protectorofnoobs]

After hearing about how replacing the vanity with some other rewards seems unfair, I want to ask all of you if you guys think it would be unfair.

Examples of other REWARDS:
1. SIck looking pets
2. Maybe an ingame pink set or recipes
3. Sick looking vanity items (I MEAAAN REALLY AWESOME) without stats

[AbsolutePally]

It is a REWARD and SPECIAL and ELITE and NOT JUST ANYONE CAN GET for a reason.
This is a 3D mmo w a 4D aspect to it. The 4th dimension being time. Aka right time right place.
Ive played for a year now, I sure as heck DESERVE it more than someone who started last month. Not to mention I have payrd real $, unlike the people who are complaining to get this. Not just money bit time. It is called effort and desire. Imagine being in a university, going to school out of pocket studying and getting a degree. Then some person comes around saying my degree is not fair to him in the outside job world.
LIFE ISNT FAIR. Grow up please, WE DO NOT WANT A SICK LOOKING PET OR STAT LESS VANITY ITEMS. WE WANTED STATS SO WE PUT IN EFFORT TO GET IT.

[Imperial-legend]

It is a REWARD and SPECIAL and ELITE and NOT JUST ANYONE CAN GET for a reason.
This is a 3D mmo w a 4D aspect to it. The 4th dimension being time. Aka right time right place.
Ive played for a year now, I sure as heck DESERVE it more than someone who started last month. Not to mention I have payrd real $, unlike the people who are complaining to get this. Not just money bit time. It is called effort and desire. Imagine being in a university, going to school out of pocket studying and getting a degree. Then some person comes around saying my degree is not fair to him in the outside job world.
LIFE ISNT FAIR. Grow up please, WE DO NOT WANT A SICK LOOKING PET OR STAT LESS VANITY ITEMS. WE WANTED STATS SO WE PUT IN EFFORT TO GET IT.

EXactly, a very simple example here, i lvl my mage without elixir from 61 to 65 and currently at 65k exp, as u can see its a very very long time of pve playing YET i never got any pink drops that r over 400k... WHEREAS LOTS of ppl i know got multiple pink drops over mils or even more. shud i come up forum and complain abt how bad bad luck i had? and how i m out of gold to buy those crazy outrageous gears in cs? and therefore how disadvantaged i m in pvp coz i cant afford them?
or even asking to grant me few pieces of pinks or make their pink drops something else?
so if u want pvp to become absolutely fair i.e. eliminate all vanity bonus, i want pink drops to be absolutely fair as well i.e. everyone got same amount of pinks worth same prices over certain time.

[Protank]

Vanity sets...

Skilled players vs vanity set players = Blah your vanity set is kinda tough to beat :P

Skilled players vs vanity set skilled players = impossible to beat :(

[Zeus]

Vanity sets...

Skilled players vs vanity set players = Blah your vanity set is kinda tough to beat :P

Skilled players vs vanity set skilled players = impossible to beat :(

Hahahabirdy won the tourney with no vanity set. :D

[Protank]

O yeah 61 tourney

[Protank]

And hi apollo :)

Wow thy was fast lol

Ok so now I have some insentive

Thx bud :)

[Mothwing]

Ever since the elite gear went vanity, i had a concern...They really are unfair, especially to those without them. Heres my two-cents:

1) As posted above, turn them back into regular pink items to get rid of the boost. Having gear over gear is really cheap. Especially when all the elite gear will be revealed, the people will have a tremendous chunk of stats, making PVP completely pointless and unplayable.

2) Make separate PVP lobbies for people with elite sets to make it more fun for them.

3) Give the non-elite set players a bonus from other vanity items via plat store.

4) Take away the boost completely. I would reccomend this especially since they are elite as-is. They dont need set bonuses to make them more special.

5) A combination of the two. Make them able to be worn both vanity and non-vanity. The vanity would just be vanity. Period. No boosts, no bonuses. The non-vanity pinks would have a SLIGHT bonus to them. Making them the special gear they should be.

[Protank]

Hahahabirdy won the tourney with no vanity set. :D

He won against people with two pieces of the set.

Now there is three.

Soon four.

U think anybody without the set could win a tourney agains players with the full set?

[csb]

This is by design. End game pvp is only for people that buy plat, or for people that have no job and can play all day.

The only problem that I see is that new players get excluded from this elite club because there is no longer an opportunity to get some of the items. To fix this, there needs to be a way for a new player to buy into the end game pvp to get equivalent stats.

[Zapoke]

Taking from people's ideas above, I think the vanity elite items should become items again. They would be the respective levels they're received from. They would be craftable, to change their stats, and increase their level when the cap raises. The items would be like "Dexterous Crown of the Elite," or "Strengthened Shield of the Elite". Each having a version in dex, int, and str, and creating a set bonus for each you have. (like they are now, but instead of only adding stats, they have their own individual stats, and replace the items you'd normally use, obviously.) They would be equal to, or slightly better than, the dropped items. This would allow players to have completely free sets with good stats. Only catch would be the "Elite" cap exp.

[Protank]

Just have the prince tell u to kill 80,000 sewer mobs for crown &

100k nuri mobs. & so on.

Problem solved imo

Make it harder to get the items idc

Just let us have a chance.

[Zeus]

Just have the prince tell u to kill 80,000 sewer mobs for crown &

100k nuri mobs. & so on.

Problem solved imo

Make it harder to get the items idc

Just let us have a chance.

That I can agree with, but also add a time frame for the quests, so you can't just leisurely complete it. Thus, effectively having a "deadline" as we did. Perhaps 2-3 months per quest? That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[WhoIsThis]

Vanity sets...

Skilled players vs vanity set players = Blah your vanity set is kinda tough to beat :P

Skilled players vs vanity set skilled players = impossible to beat :(

Hahahabirdy won the tourney with no vanity set. :D

I think a lot of people in this thread are looking for excuses for their performance in pvp.

In order of most importance for determining outcomes :

1. Player skill

2. Tactics employed

3. Build

4. Equipment

If it weren't this, we'd be seeing something else. If the vanity sets made such a big difference, the we would see:

1. Complainers in this thread dominant over their peers without the set

2. Losses when they don't have the set even against players of vastly inferior skill

These 2 are not true and I think that these sets have become a bogey.

[WhoIsThis]

This is by design. End game pvp is only for people that buy plat, or for people that have no job and can play all day.

The only problem that I see is that new players get excluded from this elite club because there is no longer an opportunity to get some of the items. To fix this, there needs to be a way for a new player to buy into the end game pvp to get equivalent stats.

Gotta disagree on this one. It is entirely possible to complete the main spine and complete the level 65 crafted sets without platinum.

Oh and btw, I don't support what has happened recently. I made a very lengthy thread detailing why.

The only reason why there is such a huge gap is because there are players that have put hundreds of hours into PvP. It's not different than say an FPS game _ do you join an Fps multiplayer as a beginner thinking you can beat veterans?

[Protank]

I think a lot of people in this thread are looking for excuses for their performance.

I think you... Nah Never mind. Im not not going there.

I pvp just fine.

I just want a chance at the items.

[WhoIsThis]

I think you... Nah Never mind. Im not not going there.

I pvp just fine.

I just want a chance at the items.

You think that I want to deny people the items because I have one and many people in this thread don't. No.

The real reason I want to do so is because they did not put in the effort during the 6 months of the sewers. I believe that new players should be given 3 months to amass the equivalent of 83,480k of xp. But only in the first 3 months, which is now the standard amount of time for level cap increases (although I do advocate fewer cap raises). Otherwise, they would have an advantage. Existing players, I strongly oppose, because they had their chance. They didn't reach 56 because they chose not to, not for any other reason. I think that giving any player that joined before August 2011 a chance would reward laziness - people that want the rewards of hard grinding, but were during that time, unwilling to do so. For that reason, I support giving new players 3 months - they do deserve a chance.

Had there been no vanity set, the 55 people would be laughing at the 56 people on how they "wasted" time getting to 56. NO player knew what would happen before the shield was revealed. Some felt that they did waste time and effort. Today though ... it would seem that things have changed.

As mentioned above, Haha is a testament to what can happen with outstanding skill. It should be noted that Haha did beat people with the 3 vanities.

[Protank]

why do leave such lengthy responces? stop justifying how biast u are about the subject.

if I was able to play pl during the release of these lvl caps I WOULD have put the time into getting cap and then some.

even with the time i missed out on I can almost guarantee ive put more time into this game then u have.

just like I can almost guarantee u have put more time into forums then I have.

who cares. I'm just asking for a chance to put the time in

[Jewelsofjane]

While I commend the effort that everyone put into grinding their way to the cap, which I have done twice, you still cannot continue to say that the reason new people don't have all 3 is because they were "lazy." I hate how everyone is really ignoring this. As someone who pvp's everyday, there is a bit of difference between a match with a player with 2 pieces and 3 pieces. Look at the stat bonus alone, when I normally would have killed someone without, the person with the 3 stat bonus will still have some sliver of health. When I see someone wearing the crown, I usually think "ugh I'm gonna have to play very smart". Right now this isn't that huge a problem, as everyone is correct, that if u are good you don't need the bonus, but....... I'm not sure that will be the case when the next vanity is released. Like stated..... A tough, long quest would solve this very easy. I'm not concerned just for me here, I truly believe that it is possible that a player could join next week and be wicked awesome at pvp, but eventually without all the stats, the player would be only average at best.

[CrimsonTider]

Coming from someone who still considers himself "new" to pvp (6 months now), if the difference between two vanities and three seems like an "advantage" to someone, then there is a lack of pvp knowledge.

Please do not take my words as disrespectful or condiscending. But I can assure you the differences, as Who stated, are minor compared to someones understanding of tactics, skill usage, and most importantly, experience.

[Jewelsofjane]

Coming from someone who still considers himself "new" to pvp (6 months now), if the difference between two vanities and three seems like an "advantage" to someone, then there is a lack of pvp knowledge.

Please do not take my words as disrespectful or condiscending. But I can assure you the differences, as Who stated, are minor compared to someones understanding of tactics, skill usage, and most importantly, experience.

Then maybe I have an extreme lack of knowledge in pvp then. It just seems to me, common sense wise, that a sliver of health could mean the difference between winning a match and losing a match. I have seen both pro and average players get down to that sliver..... believe me.... a few more hp and you could def. win the match easier.


Edit: My concern is not for the difference between 2 and 3 vanities, it is the difference between 2 and 4 vanities, or 1 and 4. We all know that the cap will continue to rise. When do the vanities stop?
Again, my only argument here is for the players that never were able to receive it. Other games do similar vanities etc... for players there at certain times... but I don't know of any other games that these elite vanities have any stats attached to them, thus recognizing that the player mass is always growing.

[CrimsonTider]

Listen, I understand everyones frustration but let me say this....

I have seen a rise in the use of the Founders Helm as it provides better stats than the third elite vanity. Do I get mad because they have 5 more base damage than I do? Nope. Is it fair they have this vanity and I don't? I could honestly care less. My job is to find a way to overcome their "slight" overpowerment.

There are solutions: play only individuals with your vanity number, host your own matches and ask those to play without the vanities, play only with friends, and so on. One lesson I have learned in my short time in the pvp community is that I am only going to get better if I play those who are more experienced and better than I am. Too many want the easy way out. I would be much more satisfied beating HaHa one time than beating someone who is inexperienced 100 times.


And trust me, I could come into a fight with some of the long time pvpers with all three of my vanities and my crafted sang set and get my butt handed to me with them in cyber.

I will repeat: Experience > gear.

[Mothwing]

I will repeat: Experience > gear.

Agree 100%

[Jewelsofjane]

Listen, I understand everyones frustration but let me say this....

I have seen a rise in the use of the Founders Helm as it provides better stats than the third elite vanity. Do I get mad because they have 5 more base damage than I do? Nope. Is it fair they have this vanity and I don't? I could honestly care less. My job is to find a way to overcome their "slight" overpowerment.

There are solutions: play only individuals with your vanity number, host your own matches and ask those to play without the vanities, play only with friends, and so on. One lesson I have learned in my short time in the pvp community is that I am only going to get better if I play those who are more experienced and better than I am. Too many want the easy way out. I would be much more satisfied beating HaHa one time than beating someone who is inexperienced 100 times.


And trust me, I could come into a fight with some of the long time pvpers with all three of my vanities and my crafted sang set and get my butt handed to me with them in cyber.

I will repeat: Experience > gear.

I completely agree with you, I just am looking towards what will happen in the future to pvp. I dont like thinking that pvp will be seperated into matches of who has vanities and who doesnt... just saying when I have 6 vanities and new player "joe" comes in with 1, it wont be much fun for me as obviously with 6 vanities I would rule lol unless I truly sucked that bad....

I would rather enjoy the ENTIRE community in the future than just playing the same old people in the "8" vanitiy club.

[WhoIsThis]

why do leave such lengthy responces? stop justifying how biast u are about the subject.

if I was able to play pl during the release of these lvl caps I WOULD have put the time into getting cap and then some.

even with the time i missed out on I can almost guarantee ive put more time into this game then u have.

just like I can almost guarantee u have put more time into forums then I have.



That seems like an odd criticism. Length means nothing. Content means something. Stop justifying? I'd have to say, unless you have a valid counterpoint to my point, so far, I have heard nothing of substance from you except for your complaining of how "biased" I am. You are not attacking my argument, but me in person.

As for how much time a person has put in the game? I don't know how much time you have put in, although I have combined on my characters, close to 200,000 PvE kills (about ~180,000+) and combined in PvP, perhaps 16,000 kills. But that said, how much time I have put in is not as important as whether or not you have a good counterpoint to my point, which it seems you do not. Finally, if you have put in more time than I have, I find it inconceivable that you would not have the items, unless you deliberately stopped playing for a playing for a long period of time (not to mention there were 6 months to get the crown, so it would have to be a VERY long time).

[WhoIsThis]

There are solutions: play only individuals with your vanity number, host your own matches and ask those to play without the vanities, play only with friends, and so on. One lesson I have learned in my short time in the pvp community is that I am only going to get better if I play those who are more experienced and better than I am. Too many want the easy way out. I would be much more satisfied beating HaHa one time than beating someone who is inexperienced 100 times.

And trust me, I could come into a fight with some of the long time pvpers with all three of my vanities and my crafted sang set and get my butt handed to me with them in cyber.

I will repeat: Experience > gear.


Well said, although I disagree about beating Haha once. Beating a player once means little because it could be that they got unlucky on their dodges while you got lucky on your crits. Being able to take a player on consistently is much more important. Indeed, one match to 10 is usually not enough to judge a player's skill IMO.

[AbsolutePally]

Here is my suggestion since this thread suggests what should b done to me.
*Don't come to end game, stick with or go twink.*
Is that fair to you? Do you like me telling you what to do or what is best for you? I mean if you can not hang with the people who got it w $ & hard work(effort) then you do not deserve to be playing with me. Sounds harsh right? If you felt I was wrong then maybe you know how how we elite people feel.

[CrimsonTider]

Well said, although I disagree about beating Haha once. Beating a player once means little because it could be that they got unlucky on their dodges while you got lucky on your crits. Being able to take a player on consistently is much more important. Indeed, one match to 10 is usually not enough to judge a player's skill IMO.

Just a tad bit of sarcasm in that.

[WhoIsThis]

Here is my suggestion since this thread suggests what should b done to me.
*Don't come to end game, stick with or go twink.*
Is that fair to you? Do you like me telling you what to do or what is best for you? I mean if you can not hang with the people who got it w $ & hard work(effort) then you do not deserve to be playing with me. Sounds harsh right? If you felt I was wrong then maybe you know how how we elite people feel.

Judging by what I am seeing, unless this player has one, he/she would probably complain about the founder's helm if said player went to twink.

[csb]

Here is my suggestion since this thread suggests what should b done to me.
*Don't come to end game, stick with or go twink.*
Is that fair to you? Do you like me telling you what to do or what is best for you? I mean if you can not hang with the people who got it w $ & hard work(effort) then you do not deserve to be playing with me. Sounds harsh right? If you felt I was wrong then maybe you know how how we elite people feel.

If the "elite" expects to be favored and protected, then they have to spend more plat than everyone else. So, i would say, keep buying lots of plat for your elixirs, otherwise the game will favor casual users.

[WhoIsThis]

If the "elite" expects to be favored and protected, then they have to spend more plat than everyone else. So, i would say, keep buying lots of plat for your elixirs, otherwise the game will favor casual users.

Spoken like somebody who who probably has never played PvP before.

Being a PvP Elite player means spending more time on PvP, not necessarily elixirs. You can't elixir your way into a PvP pro. You have to spend hundreds of hours on it to achieve any measure of real skill.

[csb]

Being a PvP Elite player means spending more time on PvP, not necessarily elixirs. You can't elixir your way into a PvP pro. You have to spend hundreds of hours on it to achieve any measure of real skill.

Really? so, you play end game pvp and have no vanity set reward items? Seems most people in CTF has those items.

All I'm saying is that if the other 90% of the people are willing to pay plat for the same stuff that the grinders are getting, then it makes sense for STS to sell them to the casual player, perhaps 3 months later. Suppose you buy a nice new android pad, and 3 months later it's half price. It's the same idea. Your cost and effort allows you to be an early adopter of the items. But, later everyone should get them. It make everyone happy, and makes money for STS. The only alternative, is if the "elite" spends so much money on plat, that they can demand their equipment advantage be protected.

[WhoIsThis]

Really? so, you play end game pvp and have no vanity set reward items? Seems most people in CTF has those items.

It's not the vanity set nor a crafted that makes a player truly outstanding. It's the player skill that makes the player. Reading your response, I am going to have to ask you this question - how much PvP experience do you have? If you have less than 2,000 kills, I'd say you probably don't have enough to have seen everything there is to see.

Bad players cannot become skilled with top end equipment. Good players though can use top end equipment to its full potential. This holds true in both PvP and PvE.

Combined, the sets give about 55 hp, a point in crit, some armor, and dodge. While not insignificant, it is not make or break. I have often taken my set off in 1v1 and usually, there is often little visible difference. The point is, having the set does not make you a pro. It does not even, contrary to what some of the players would have you believe, give even a decisive advantage, although all other things being equal, the player with the set does have a slight to moderate advantage. Equipment does not make you a pro. Skill does.

Notice my post earlier:




In order of most importance for determining outcomes :

1. Player skill

2. Tactics employed

3. Build

4. Equipment



Equipment ranks last and for a good reason.





All I'm saying is that if the other 90% of the people are willing to pay plat for the same stuff that the grinders are getting, then it makes sense for STS to sell them to the casual player, perhaps 3 months later. Suppose you buy a nice new android pad, and 3 months later it's half price. It's the same idea. Your cost and effort allows you to be an early adopter of the items. But, later everyone should get them. It make everyone happy, and makes money for STS. The only alternative, is if the "elite" spends so much money on plat, that they can demand their equipment advantage be protected.

The problem with your idea is that we paid hundreds of plat for something that STS told us would never be offered again. To be honest, I feel that the sets should be offered only to new players that start an account after they were phased out and they should only be given 3 months like everyone else was. Existing players had their chance, and as I have told Protank, they chose not to take the time to get them. I know that there are many players that would consider quitting if that happened. And hardcore players, as you note, give revenue. Casual ones ... not nearly as much. Although to be honest, hardcore PvE probably give more than hardcore PvP, as they would spend most of their time farming versus PvPers which would spend more time in PvP.

Finally, in the Sewer days, before platinum elixirs existed, it took me 3 weeks to get to the cap and I was busy at the time with work. For the Sewers, I did not spend any platinum on elixirs to level to 56 on either of my 2 characters. I'd say 3 months, while I think is too short, is still enough time that some people could make it. However, I should mention that I do support increasing the amount of time between cap rises, ideally to 5-6 months for everyone. I should remind you that it is an elite cap and one that is not intended for everyone to get. Otherwise, it would not be much of an elite cap.

It's not at all like electronics. It's more like a sport. Those who play more will be better than those who are not - just like anything else in life.

[csb]

The reality is that the tablet market is exploding. There will be a huge number of new PL players. They will find that they are permanently second class citizens. When they complain, you will say "Oh well, don't worry about the stats, they are not important", or you will say "I killed more mummies that you, so i deserve to have better stats forever as long as the servers are up."

So, what will all these new second class PL citizens do? I would look for a new game, so that I can start from the beginning and gain the benefit of being a founding player. Perhaps what STS can do is start a new server called PL2, and all the new people can play there. Then all the "elites" can have PL for themselves along with a few second class players.

[WhoIsThis]

The reality is that the tablet market is exploding. There will be a huge number of new PL players. They will find that they are permanently second class citizens. When they complain, you will say "Oh well, don't worry about the stats, they are not important", or you will say "I killed more mummies that you, so i deserve to have better stats forever as long as the servers are up."

So, what will all these new second class PL citizens do? I would look for a new game, so that I can start from the beginning and gain the benefit of being a founding player. Perhaps what STS can do is start a new server called PL2, and all the new people can play there. Then all the "elites" can have PL for themselves along with a few second class players.

Stats - for which you define as number of kills isn't important at all. Skill is. A person can easily boost their kills - killing mummies 300,000 times (or more) does not make a person skilled. It just looks nice on their stats page when they have a high K/D ratio. The only thing that is important is that generally, people with more experience will be better players, provided that they did not boost.

As for what do they do? I do support giving each player a period of 3 months to get to each elite cap. If not ... they lose the opportunity forever.

A second server, I oppose. The costs of supporting and segregating the game offer no benefits - people cannot interact between servers. If my suggestion is implemented, they won't be second class citizens at all. Not having 300,000 kills does not make you an inferior player. Besides, there are players that have earned those kills and would have their achievements unfairly destroyed by what you are saying. Segregating instances by elixir and non-elixir does, but the entire server ... what are the benefits? To give everyone a fresh start? You would have to keep rebooting every few months.

[Jewelsofjane]

@whoisthis- I believe his post was mainly sarcasm esp about the 2nd server. I may be wrong though.

His point and my point I believe are the same..... Vanities given at the end of a cap level for only a limited time with stats that could be crucial when stacked 0 vanities vs 4.....WILL affect brand new players. I have said this over and over and no one seems to be catching on to this.... All I see is talk about being "lazy" and taking the time to learn pvp, but NO ONE has yet thought what this could mean to new players......

I agree... If I just started and lost out the chance to earn all 3 vanities out now, and my chance is only to get one, then I wouldn't even bother in pvp, and yea probably go to another game where I could ultimately have fair endgame pvp as those who started before and after me.

I get why sts did it, it is a great concept to keep top level players busy and playing, but something must be done for the incoming new players.

[csb]

The reality is that the tablet market is exploding. There will be a huge number of new PL players. They will find that they are permanently second class citizens. When they complain, you will say "Oh well, don't worry about the stats, they are not important", or you will say "I killed more mummies that you, so i deserve to have better stats forever as long as the servers are up."

So, what will all these new second class PL citizens do? I would look for a new game, so that I can start from the beginning and gain the benefit of being a founding player. Perhaps what STS can do is start a new server called PL2, and all the new people can play there. Then all the "elites" can have PL for themselves along with a few second class players.

note: stat = (armor + health + etc), not kills/deaths