Where it all started (I think)

[Spheresome]

We can trace all of the class complaining and Arcane Legends transformation into rogue legends back to when the Hydra map was nerfed and made too easy. The easiest and simplest way to rebalance the game, is to make the raids difficult to the extent where it is impossible for a full rogue party to do it/or is too slow or die too many times. Thus the rogues would require the support of another class. Or like @ucamabean suggested, add a buff for when all the classes are in the map together to promote cooperation between classes.

Id also like to point out that the raids were technically supposed to be the hardest content in the game. Yet there are some elite maps that take longer to complete than the hydra and infested sawmp. And im talking low level elite maps like dead city and nordr. Make the raids the difficulty they were intended and add some good drops so that people are still motivated to run them!

Ty STS~ and this is my opinion pls dont create drama in this thread ty :) Just constructive opinions :D

[snoopfrog]

Real talk home boy support chu xx


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[Sometacoz]

Well if they make maps harder then u see warriors and mages cant really provide any special support anyways. Its still dps oriented. As I see it its upto each member to survive on their own in that map. No attacking mobs that can be taunted etc.

[Thewolfbull]

Remove raids and bring back old style of maps :)

[Holybagumba]

Remove raids and bring back old style of maps :)

no thanks. just add the proposed buff system

[Spheresome]

Well if they make maps harder then u see warriors and mages cant really provide any special support anyways. Its still dps oriented. As I see it its upto each member to survive on their own in that map. No attacking mobs that can be taunted etc.

If we up the damge the bosses do, the warriors will be needed to tank for the rogues :D. If rogues keep dying than they will need a tank or risk serious KDR drops and it will potentiall cause the boss to reset if it a team of only rogues dies. Thats one solution as to get warriors involved and necessary.

Being a mage, i still havnt thought of a good way to get mages involved :(

[Motherless_Child]

Remove raids and bring back old style of maps :)

I actually like the "straight to the point" maps like Hydra.... Hydra is just a bit too easy and it would be good if there was a way to know what drops in maps without having to do intricate digging/research......

[arcanefid]

I think it's Awakenings that are ruining most of the game in general.

With the Awakenings we can have now, all three classes can have OP stats overall. High health, high armor, high mana, high damage, high everything else.

So then the first to be useless are warriors, because Warriors can't scratch any Elite Boss, while Mages and Rogues don't need any healing or shields because they already have OP Health and Armor, and also Auto Pots.

Second are Mages because the Rogue skills just simply deal way more damage than theirs, and that makes them useless too. And not to forget that Mage support is not really needed... it never was, because pots and stuff.

So what can we do? I think the class imbalance has gone way too far and it will be almost impossible to make all classes useful again in this cap.

Maybe in the future limit the Awakenings that can be rolled in each classes' items. Like Rogue items not being able to roll Armor or Health, or just make those numbers much smaller. Or just remove them completely from new gear.

Another way would be buffing damage of Mages and Warriors, but then what's the purpose of having different classes if they're all going to do the same thing?

[Lolifee]

make pve maps without pots usable. all classes were needed

[Alwarez]

Extreme mire set buffs and "OP" awakes actually are the reason. If you take usual rogues with lvl71 arcanes and few mire items, you will see they die a lot without tank.

[Thewolfbull]

Extreme mire set buffs and "OP" awakes actually are the reason. If you take usual rogues with lvl71 arcanes and few mire items, you will see they die a lot without tank.

No my rogue is the biggest noob ever and can do it easy only thing that can kill a rogue is the big circle redzone and it's easy to avoid tank does nothing in hydra unless they're playing with rogues who never did it before :p

[Bundlos]

I really don't understand why people just gang up against rogues in the game. It is sad

[Bundlos]

And talking about co-operation, when I enter random Bog maps with 3 other tanks, it is the tanks who always leave the map. I am rogue, and sometimes I have a tough time to do the map because I am not fully geared. It is good play that counts, be it rogues, warriors and mages. Hydra bog map is still made for all classes, and I can vouch for it because I don't run full rogue parties. And for the record, Mages with Drag Staff take over the map if they know how to proc well, rogues aren't even required if the mage plays well. I hope this attitude towards rogues in the game changes soon. We are not tools and we are not enemies. It is just a game, so let's just enjoy it.

[Jairus980]

Because most of the time I experienced is the rogue that leaves or most players used to Max 1/2 tanks


And talking about co-operation, when I enter random Bog maps with 3 other tanks, it is the tanks who always leave the map. I am rogue, and sometimes I have a tough time to do the map because I am not fully geared. It is good play that counts, be it rogues, warriors and mages. Hydra bog map is still made for all classes, and I can vouch for it because I don't run full rogue parties. And for the record, Mages with Drag Staff take over the map if they know how to proc well, rogues aren't even required if the mage plays well. I hope this attitude towards rogues in the game changes soon. We are not tools and we are not enemies. It is just a game, so let's just enjoy it.

[Xxkayakxx]

And talking about co-operation, when I enter random Bog maps with 3 other tanks, it is the tanks who always leave the map. I am rogue, and sometimes I have a tough time to do the map because I am not fully geared. It is good play that counts, be it rogues, warriors and mages. Hydra bog map is still made for all classes, and I can vouch for it because I don't run full rogue parties. And for the record, Mages with Drag Staff take over the map if they know how to proc well, rogues aren't even required if the mage plays well. I hope this attitude towards rogues in the game changes soon. We are not tools and we are not enemies. It is just a game, so let's just enjoy it.

Hi Bund :)
I like the enjoy the game part ;)
In forum I guess 90% of people writing play AL from years, and everyone had his own “gold era” and speaks considering its own experience. Here it’s not about rogues. It’s game balance, where people who invested time and effort in 1 toon is kinda obliged to shift to rogue to be able to play the map of the moment (Hydra).
Before (mausoleum) were mages, now (and 3-4 years ago) rogues. Also tanks I think had their moment being considered best class.
Just don’t take it personal :) all threads include truth and are interesting, look at the good part of them!
Ps: Drag Staff proc is random, don’t blame too much mages xD
Ps2: dmg is dmg, so even if it’s random high dmg is way better. Blame some mages..... XD

[Majin]

Or just add few special mobs which are OK with other 2 classes but expert in killing there specific class

Like shaman pakuna's mob version ( pakuma's apprentice) type can counter & kill mages very easily
Kroger's mob version can easily hunt warrior
And
Vori's mob version or apprentice can nullify rogue attacks & kill rogue very quickly.

So no class can be ignored.

(Don't mind if boss names aren't correct)

Have fun!

[Justg]

We can trace all of the class complaining and Arcane Legends transformation into rogue legends back to when the Hydra map was nerfed and made too easy.

Class complaining in AL began around November 2012.

[wowdah]

Class complaining in AL began around November 2012.

Yeah, but in 2012, the game was based on skill. Not just whether you had enough plat to reroll awakenings 24 hours a day. This was evident in both pvp and timed runs, and even normal pve: all required skill back then. Now? Not so much. That's the key detail you're missing: adding awakenings increased a ton of revenue, sure, but the game quality severely dipped after that and can never recover with their continued existence.

[Azerothraven]

Yeah, but in 2012, the game was based on skill. Not just whether you had enough plat to reroll awakenings 24 hours a day. This was evident in both pvp and timed runs, and even normal pve: all required skill back then. Now? Not so much. That's the key detail you're missing: adding awakenings increased a ton of revenue, sure, but the game quality severely dipped after that and can never recover with their continued existence.

ngl I like the awakens and dont want them removed. I think sts will just need to find another way to solve the prob. Hint hint: more gold sink ideas and content like they have been doing

[Xxkayakxx]

Class complaining in AL began around November 2012.

I guess even before .......while u were developing AL inside ur own staff xD

[arcanefid]

ngl I like the awakens and dont want them removed. I think sts will just need to find another way to solve the prob. Hint hint: more gold sink ideas and content like they have been doing

Can someone stop this absolute madman? How does a gold sink balance classes?

[srazman]

In the end... We all play whichever class that gives us the most fun. All class have it own special dedicated fun. If you lost your fun you already know what to do.

• Reonauz

[Spheresome]

Class complaining in AL began around November 2012.

Why nothing been fixed about it for soo long then T_T

#bluelivesmatter

[Azerothraven]

Can someone stop this absolute madman? How does a gold sink balance classes?

Ah apologies I was referring to insane prices not balancing different classes. I think awaken has very little to class balances. It is the gears which sts need to change since awaken is same for all items.

[PostNoob]

Ive ran with plenty of competent warriors and mages in hydra, since this is the single map that provokes "balance the classes". Ive ran with mages that can output damage against hydra at the rate of a good rogue, and would take a tank that knows their role over an spamming rogue that doesn't know what they are doing(many of them in pubs!)

This topic is getting blown out of proportions here on forums i feel. It does indeed need some sort of tweak to it but it shouldn't be in warrior/mage damage output.

Boss skill that disables class for X amount of time, which would always start with rogues. 4 rogues would get nowhere then. 2 rogues would then become the normal(which should be ok with everyone??). Rogues-Mages-warriors.

It may not sound fun(especially since it would be forced), but would help curve the rogue only pt.

When i say boss skill i mean one that cannot be avoided and cannot be broke by AAs ect. Ive suggested this 2 times already but have been waiting on some kind of feedback or variations from everyone(as im sure i could have overlooked something..).

Any way, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me, as i run randoms almost exclusively, and dont mind mages/warriors in the map(if they can at least learn the mechanics :o).

[Dispressor]

I see many guys giving advices and ideas to fix the game because it is really unbalanced.
First of all damage of aimed shot reach madness now. because initially rog class have damage between tank and mage so the insane damage of aimed will helps compensate the lesser damage of other skills and auto attack.
After the buff of rogs damage go out of control because u give at rog class both highest dmg and dps.
That's the main reason why things go totally crazy now and in the future situation only get worse.
I think a solution. Adding a new passive that can fix content.
Haste passive : 5/5 gives 30% haste but skills cost 250% more mana. Each grade give 6% hast but 50% mana
Berserk passive: 5/5 gives 40% more dmg but armor is decreased by 60%. Each grade give 8% dmg for 12% armor.
Bulwark passive : 5/5 - 60% dodge + 15% armor. Each grade give 3% armor but - 12% dodge.
This passive will fix problems of damage output of mage and mana unspent, ton of stacking armor on tank and too low dmg, and crazy values of useless dodge over 100% in useful armor. Taughts and ideas not in dramatic way.

[Horgs]

Maybe in the future limit the Awakenings that can be rolled in each classes' items. Like Rogue items not being able to roll Armor or Health, or just make those numbers much smaller.

I completely agree with this one. I think this would solve the problems.

[Dingodine]

Fun isn't the question here. I like warriors, but at moment, warriors are useless to farm... I will keep playing with my warrior, taking 1h to farm 250k, while rogues farm 600-800k in the same time, with the same GL, just cause they can finish the map quickly making full rogue parties. This isn't fun for me, this is injustice

[Alwarez]

Fun isn't the question here. I like warriors, but at moment, warriors are useless to farm... I will keep playing with my warrior, taking 1h to farm 250k, while rogues farm 600-800k in the same time, with the same GL, just cause they can finish the map quickly making full rogue parties. This isn't fun for me, this is injustice

Prices for war gear are lower. Also you don't need overpriced pets like heroic dreambot/mishi for war. If you play for items, this is fair. If you play for gold to merch, then ... I hate merchers anyway

[Thewolfbull]

Prices for war gear are lower. Also you don't need overpriced pets like heroic dreambot/mishi for war. If you play for items, this is fair. If you play for gold to merch, then ... I hate merchers anyway

Trust me rogue is cheapest class by far right now for hydra just get up to 6k armor/7k hp and you are invincible in hydra then get as much dmg as you can after. I only spent about 5mil on rogue gear/jewels/awakes- legend daggers/belt, mire helm/armor, excellent/superb finesse jewels although i am using my tanks artifact and heroic wylenor pet so total 16ish mil also i used legendary ring/pend until i got the 20 red coins needed for arc ring pend 71 after that it was easymode 1death every 100 runs now maybe unless i lag ofcourse xD.. i have 7400hp 6k armor 3300dmg. My tank has very expensive gear/Full precise jewels and does nothing in hydra xD

[PostNoob]

Trust me rogue is cheapest class by far right now for hydra just get up to 6k armor/7k hp and you are invincible in hydra then get as much dmg as you can after. I only spent about 5mil on rogue gear/jewels/awakes- legend daggers/belt, mire helm/armor, excellent/superb finesse jewels although i am using my tanks artifact and heroic wylenor pet so total 16ish mil also i used legendary ring/pend until i got the 20 red coins needed for arc ring pend 71 after that it was easymode 1death every 100 runs now maybe unless i lag ofcourse xD.. i have 7400hp 6k armor 3300dmg. My tank has very expensive gear/Full precise jewels and does nothing in hydra xD

I respect you as a forumer(never played with u in game) but i call b.s. on this(sorry). You are either leaving out key parts of this or its exaggerated to make rogs look a certain way. Also, depending on how you play/who you play with this will effect the "invincible" comment.

Try running pubs with those stats(no dr elix) and see how invincible you are ;).

[Thewolfbull]

I respect you as a forumer(never played with u in game) but i call b.s. on this(sorry). You are either leaving out key parts of this or its exaggerated to make rogs look a certain way. Also, depending on how you play/who you play with this will effect the "invincible" comment.

Try running pubs with those stats(no dr elix) and see how invincible you are ;).

My rogue ign is thebullwolf pm me and we can run :p

[aminezelda]

Reasonble and wise ++

[Rauitri]

Well just to fix the thinking of some people.
No, Dead city and Nordr isn't any harder or comparable to the raids, its just the matter of your Movement speed.

If you think Dead or nordr is harder, then why could you solo them, but never on Hydra? So its not about Nordr/Dead being hard, its about how long the map is.

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[Shubham]

ngl I like the awakens and dont want them removed. I think sts will just need to find another way to solve the prob. Hint hint: more gold sink ideas and content like they have been doing

More gold sink ? Really ? The more gold sink is just complemented but more gold drops maps later eventually so is usless .just remove gl awakes